Drift_FX

this goes back to what i said earlier... (when you can) make your own parts... why?

because:
its bad ass
custom for your setup
you know its quality
you spend less money than "legit" parts(most of the time)
plus you learn a skill that most people are too lazy to try themselves.....

teh smithers

Hold on there chief. That would require actual effort.

To the OP: This means that the OEM manifold is superior to the Godspeed manifold. Reading further into this statement, we find that replacing the OEM component for a Godspeed part is silly and illogical.

I know you're like "nah man no way"

But I'm like TOTALLY FUCKIN WAY MAN

Shift n Drift

I was talking to Chris Forsberg's mechanic/tuner the other year and he said he could tune a SR to make more HP with the OEM manifold than the Greddy because of the way the head was engineered to flow... By hearing that from him, i would just have the OEM manifold extrude honed then port matched and call it a day. Roughly 300-400 bux...

GarageMaks14

too broke to buy a legit manifold post...so i'm gonna try to reason why I'm going cheap post

tiggertsi

yes R&D. research and development, two terms often interjected into the description of a product, especially in motorsports, by a companies marketing team or person with the goal of persuading a potential customer into actually consuming their product to increase their profit margins. more often than not with no actual evidence, at hand, that the consumer can see that would be conclusive proof that the actual product was researched and developed or tested against their competitors or oem. no dynos, no flow tests, no heat stress tests, or any such systematic testing for the consumer to see.

in the world of harley's i know of 2 such companies out of 100's that would actually even come close to providing such evidence. both companies are american and both companies are very small, one being a "mom and pop" operation with over 60 years in their particular field, and both companies have land speed record attempts and records with their efforts in motorsports. and both with pricing that is very competitive against the larger more well known name brand crap that most harley riders slap on or into their machines.

again i am not giving an opinion on this manifold, i do not know how it performs or its quality, so thus i wouldn't begin to say. opinions are fine but they are just that.

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66 Plymouth Satellite, 96 Nissan 240sx, 03 Harley Sportster. Toys!

tricky_ab

Yes, because the two items that you're comparing are TOTALLY the same....


...Right?... I mean catch can...Intake manifold...

waxball88

Hold on their trickmeister, I'm trying to play the devils advocate here. It's just illogical that people can slam all parts based on brand name and say "well that's made by x company when y designed it so you should pay 10x the price for y" which I based the catch can off of. Just because it's made by a high end company doesn't mean it's better.
What difference does it make which part I buy if I have the mechanical know how to clean up and fix a mediocre weld/casting job? Sure you can bring up the design/flow stats I encourage it, show me a side by side flow bench of a Godspeed, a cleaned up Godspeed, and a real greddy. A little time with a dremel a little time with the tig. Shit the average joe would pay money for. Why can I not use tools I paid good money to possess to save money like was intended when they were purchased, does that make me a cheap ass?
It's an intake manifold not a piston or rod moving at 7-9000 rpm

BossHogg

The funny thing is I think greddy manis are shit to. People will buy what they want to buy. So let it rest.

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BossHogg

If you had the tools and mechanical know how you would simply make your own. Not buy a shit part and "fix " it. Its just welding. You would realize you could make a better product yourself. If you have this "know how" you would of realized that.

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waxball88

I anticipated that response. At the same time a cost vs time benefit may yield the 200dollar manifold a better buy it's not exactly cost effective to have all the flanges cut for a one off manifold. I'm not saying I'm an engineer. Anyone can slap weld some sheet metal together and have a piece of shit manifold with no egr, iacv, etc. that performs much worse than stock. So that would be a waste of materials. However if I did have a degree in that, access to a flow bench, etc. of course the best bet would be to make my own.

thefro526

I forgot how much these threads start to suck after the first 10-12 posts. Everyone is continuing to beat the crap out of a dead horse.

Godspeed/ISIS/CS/CXRacing/Some Name Brands all come from the same factories, series of factories in China. How do I know this? I deal with this kind of stuff all day at work. When something is sent to China for Manufacturing, the Manufacturer on that end takes the right to make as many copies of the design as they want for themselves - because of a Lack of IP/Copyright Laws/Enforcement of said laws between the two Countries.

As of late, much of what we've been getting in has had a relatively high (25-50%) rejection rate on the initial order - meaning that somewhere around 25-50 parts per 100 will have a defect that doesn't pass our QC process. Stuff like this is what sets the brands apart. I'm not going to lie and say that we don't get stuff from over there that's flawless, but I will say that for every flawless part there seems to be one that's complete crap. Some sellers will QC their shipments upon arrival, and weed out the bad parts, making their parts seem 'better' where others will not do this QC, it all depends on the company.

All in all, the OP asked if the manifold was good, or whatever, and yes, it will work just fine with a bit of tweaking, although if you're going to modify a manifold, you may as well modify the stock one, unless you're making enough power or moving enough air to justify a larger plenum. I've seen too many cars just arbitrarily switch from the stock manifold to a Greddy (Freddy) manifold and do more harm than good. If you can imagine, at sub 400hp (SR) levels, you're not really moving enough air for the stock plenum to be (that) much of a restriction. There have also been issues with the RB series motors and aftermarket intakes, namely that cylinder 5 and 6 will sometimes struggle to get the proper amount of air - which can be worsened by a questionable cast plenum, especially if it's got a lot of rough edges, uneven surfaces and other geometry that could cause turbulent or restricted air flow.

Regardless, it's your money and your car, chose the path that you feel is right based on the knowledge available to you. Just don't come back complaining if something isn't right.

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http://thefro526.wordpress.com/

Deto International

Drift_FX

you can buy the flanges you need for cheap, and most of the others are just threaded fittings. you dont neew a flow bench to make a good intake manifold, you need just a little bit of research and some common sense. but if your too dumb and lazy to do that, know wonder you buy chineses parts...

ixfxi

up to you. i did. i've contemplated filling it with stainless steel mesh and creating a baffle, but to be honest it seems to be working good enough in the application i am using it for. i am not saying all of their designs are top notch, but it works.


At the end of the day, it is what it is. People are going to do what they're going to do and buy what they're going to buy.

I wanted to keep with the stock manifold for a long time. In the end, I bought a current Greddy manifold. Not because it makes my car faster. Only one reason: I like how it looks. Thats it. What an idiot, right? haha seriously... I am a total idiot for doing that. My friend goes "yeah, it lightens your wallet... thats about all it does." He's right, but I just didnt care. When I drove my friends car that had the manifold (vs my car that didnt) I personally didnt notice a shits worth of a difference in power or response. If whatever loss of power is that negligeable, then fuckit... I'll use that manifold solely based on looks. I shelved my OE manifold & TB in case I ever need it again.

JDM or not, if it wasnt for these companies manufacturing these products - they wouldnt exist.

Another odd story, I own one of the old Greddy catch cans (rectangular) and I needed an extra one... but nowadays its discontinued. So for shits and giggles, I ordered a copy (gasp). The copy was total trash, so I gave it to a broke friend.

waxball88

Excellent come back, brb going to get preparation H for my butthurt.

But to be honest I simply have my stock ka-manifold with egr, pcv things welded shut, I enjoy the simple things that work with little modification.

It comes down to what thefro said. Do what you want in regards to your money and knowledge. If you wanna build a shit box racer and use all eBay parts while turning as few wrenches as possible, then are mad you have to re-buy when it breaks, you probably won't be around long. But if you can take cheaper parts and modify them in your spare time understanding full well it may be a repetitive nuisance it's up to you where you set you cost/benefit at.

Bushido

So you've actually driven your car? I thought its been under construction for 15 years, never finished because of your extreme anal retentiveness...

You actually bought a part because it looks cool? You're gettin soft in your old age man...

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Mikester

Sweet- another endless, circular debate!

My thoughts:

There are 3 groups here:

1. Those with CFS (Cheap Fuck Syndrome)
2. Those with EFS (Elitist Fuck Syndrome)
3. Those somewhere in between who try to balance quality vs. cost

We all know who we are- no need to point these things out just to be a dick to someone who wants to join this thread. We ARE adults, yea?

If you know, or know of me; you will know that I believe some things are absolutely worth paying the big bucks for (my build thread). Others... not so much.

While I FIRMLY BELIEVE that OEM Nissan is hands-down the best choice for every last bearing, bushing, seal and/or gasket between the oil pan & valve cover, I cannot say with the same surety that there are leaps and bounds worth of difference between brand name NON-MOVING parts and their cheaper, knockoff counterparts. Either way, if the cheap shit fails a year or two down the road, you got your money's worth!

Going back to Godspeed intake manis- Let's look at this semi-objectively for a minute.

- Pretty simple casting on both GReddy and knockoffs
- GReddy is $900 vs. knockoff is $150(ish)
- GReddy gives superb quality & fitment, knockoff gives less overall quality and 'cool points' but fitment is satifactory to good.
- Both require the same few minor supporting mods to adapt

^^There are probably other factors to consider... but just trying to keep it simple. Bottom line is that if you have $900 to spend on a GReddy intake, then great. If you don't, then there is a cheaper alternative. It's a choice.

OP:

Anyone have experience with these? Im looking to get one for my S13 SR20DET. What is the casting quality like?

I run a knockoff Ebay intake that I got for free. The casting quality is fine... DEFINITELY not as good as a GReddy... but fine overall. All of the mating surfaces; and more importantly the injector ports are excellent (at least on MY particular knockoff lol) and required no additional attention or machining. Mine:



How was the install overall?

It bolted right up and mated up absolutely FINE with OEM Nissan intake, AAC valve & TB gaskets. Here it is polished up & installed on my 'somewhere in between' fully built motor:



Should I just spend a few more bucks and get a less crappy ISIS?

Dude- that's sort of like deciding between a shit sundae and a diarrhea delight if you know what I mean. If you're going to go cheap, just go cheap and don't look back

I'm aware that these knockoff manifolds sometimes require the casting and threads be cleaned up. Thanks!

edit: I would most likely have the throttle body, cylinder head and possibly IACV flanges planed at a machine shop.

Again, this is not necessarily true. The casting quality on the ones I've seen is generally not THAT bad to where it will need it. Just use OEM NISSAN GASKETS, the proper FSM torque order/specs and you'll be golden.

I WILL say however, that although a GReddy or knockoff manifold is an 'upgrade'... it is NOT necessary unless you are building for 450 or more ponies. If you are not, then all you will really be doing for yourself is strapping on a shiny part and having to do some minor shopping & modding... only to end up with more turbo lag accompanied by negligible at best power gains.

If you are dead-set on doing it, PM me and I will tell you everything you need to know, provide you pictures and a shopping list.

In closing, a GReddy, Jun or Mazworx mani is on my personal long-term to-do list... but I got the FReddy for free from a great friend from my Okinawa days; so I wanted to incorporate it into the build. As far as the brand name stuff, I firmly believe in supporting them by paying the higher prices because with the brand names, you get very high quality; and you are financing their future to continue to research, develop and innovate to our benefit as enthusiasts. But on the flip side, the cheap copies made by the companies who stand on the shoulders of these giants are good in the sense that they provide an affordable means for the young folks to pay to play. Just like parts choices... It's a balance.

--Mike

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acslater9

So basically you're saying anything with ISIS is crap? So these ISIS hub conversions are crap to you?

Nissan 240sx - Hub Conversions - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC

Mikester

There is probably already an ISIS 5-lug hubs thread

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mechanicalmoron

You have a very poor grasp on the definition of "fact".

It's not something that simply IS with no substantiation, it's something that is, BECAUSE of substantiation.

vehicle336

I'm not going to cover what's already been covered regarding knock-off parts, but for what it's worth the car I recently picked up had an Isis one already installed. Here's my experience with it:

Putting the intake manifold gasket up to it you'll notice a good 1-2mm of exposed metal in spots while the gasket itself actually covers open space by a small fraction in other spots - which directly negates any bonus you may actually gain by having this intake on the car in the first place. In addition, there are casting marks that actually stick up into the runner space right where the manifold meets the head, again impeding flow. Inside the walls are hardly smooth at all and come complete with casting marks.

How do I know all this? Realizing too late after buying the car that the fuel rail was fucking ziptied (yes, ziptied) to the manifold, I decided to take the thing off and try to install the fuel rail correctly. Which brings me to my second point, you'll have to modify the stock fuel rail in order for it to fit right. How heavily depends on how well the bolt holes line up to begin with.

On to my third point. You have to have the right intake piping in order for it to fit. Now I've thought about changing it out for the stock one, which I'm sure hands down is better simply because it fits, but currently my piping is actually meant to fit with this intake. At least the old owner didn't do everything the janky Zilvian way...

Either you can pay 200 bucks for a poorly-made part that needs machine work for it to function to it's fullest (which even then has absolutely no empirical evidence that it adds any performance), requires you to modify your fuel rail and change your intake piping, or you can just keep the stock one on there and save your money for something that doesn't suck shit. Though it does look cool I guess. Your call.

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May the bridges I burn light the way.

BossHogg

Shit sundae and diarrhea delight takes the thread.

Great post mikester.

Lets lock it up.

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GroundPerformance

I'm sure the Chinese companies who makes this parts does what they do best in R&D.

" Receive & Duplicate " or " Replicate & Distribute "

Who knows.. They might be doing the same shit on GI Joe movie. Clone a person as Proxies..

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Mikester

All good, valid points sir...

I am going to make a few couterpoints here. Not to argue, just to throw out a semi-different point of view.

1. Even in the absence of GReddy's superior quality, you can still get the same effect (minus the badge) for far less money... which is what I did: S13 SR20DET Intake Manifold, Greddy? Or ISIS Easy choice? I think not : 240sx General Discussion

2. To make the fuel rail work, you only need to ebb out one of the holes on the rail bracket a bit (The front one IIRC); but the injectors line up perfectly. Forgot about that till ^^HE^^ mentioned it; but easy peasy <5min fix.

3. Casting marks inside the runners: Sure, they impede flow. But I would say it's a safe bet that a kid torn between Godspeed & ISIS manifolds probably is not at the level where any impedance of airflow is going to cost him that .001sec between winning & losing a race against another sub-10sec car Flow is only part of the equation. Volume is what's important... the average T25 or T28 is only going to flow 'so much volume' no matter how smooth or rough the inside of an already 'too big' intake manifold is... If anything, I wonder performance gains may actually be negative in the low/mid range where the T25/T28 are in their efficiency range.

4. Although I agree that the stock intake manifold is best suited to a <400hp SR, I do however assert that one thing the GReddy/FReddy intakes afford is maintenance-friendliness. For the added $60 of an ISIS (or $180 GReddy- do the math) cold pipe, you get access to the AAC valve & knock sensor (nearly impossible to change with OEM IM) as well as all the under-intake coolant lines that can't be reached without the IM removed. Also, with this , a $40 S14 throttle pulley is not needed for the swap...

Add the price for the cold pipe, throttle cable bracket & other nickels/dimes it takes to make a knockoff manifold effective... then compare the same with the GReddy... Still far more cost-effective and when properly done, looks cool and does not suck shit. The empirical evidence is in the physics. You can only increase flow 'so much' until greater volume is needed in order to increase it any further. Increase the volume (add big GReddy/FReddy manifold), you can once again increase flow

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tiggertsi

after getting my first 240 this year this is the thing that pissed me off the most about the engine bay, not having access to those very things. i'd love to have an IM that gave me access.

also good post. wish i could see more informative posts on here instead of the elementary "you got buddy shoes and i got nikes" mentality.

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66 Plymouth Satellite, 96 Nissan 240sx, 03 Harley Sportster. Toys!

jamg

ebay is a MARKETPLACE.

so stop calling ebay parts, "ebay parts" because they have absolutely nothing to do with the production process.

sellers on ebay merely advertise their item, and they charge a fee for the millions of users that use it everyday.

china will make you good items. it all depends on how deep your pockets are.

people like godspeed, ISIS, cx racing pay more $ per item, for a lower number of faulty and "better" quality products.. that's why their stuff is marked up, for the same crap.

Mikester

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racepar1

You don't post facts. You post ignorant, opinionated, tasteless, bullshit mostly in argumentative or sarcastic form. You have no facts or experience to draw from, it's all heresay and bullshit in your posts. I think you do it on purpose just to rattle people's cages.

Corbic

I love you tooooo

racepar1

HAHA!

Glad to see you don't take all this bullshit too seriously as well!

vehicle336

I need this. Do you have any pictures of what it looks like installed?

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