MandTPhotography

sidewaysil80

we (military) dont get to pick and choose wich wars we fight in. so just because the war in iraq didn't directly threaten your freedom, doesn't mean the next one won't. and just like this one, i'll stand willing and ready to commit violence on your behalf because people like you will NEVER raise a hand to defend your self or your country. it's real easy to speak so much of something you no so little about... so people like you can hate the military all you want, you can bad mouth us, make smug comments, insults. but no matter what at some point in time, during some war, people like you will thank us. until then fine American (i use the term loosely in your case) tax payer i say THANK YOU for providing me with my $3600 ($4500 now since i'm deployed) a month paychecks and free ride through college when i'm out

Matej

Thought they are fighting for my freedom to discuss whatever I want.

sidewaysil80

i think he was referring to the judgment calls that get made during the fog of war. kinda like a "you could never understand until your in that situation yourself" type deal. not all decisions are right, some are wrong, but sometimes you just don't have the luxury to quarterback and really asess(sp) and over analyze your decisions. because a lot of times, it's not only your life on the line, but a lot of people around you. ON ANOTHER NOTE,your right, discuss whatever the hell you want dude. it's fucked up to try and pick and choose which freedoms are acceptable and which are condemned. i'm all about freedom of speech, i'm just not about people taking out their frustrations on the military who have absolutley no say whatsoever in foreign policy.

aznpoopy

to expand on that, context is important for figuring out whether 'fog of war' calls were right or wrong.

this video has absolutely no context. it only has 20/20 hindsight and a good bit of propagandist slanting.

Ben G

I am pretty sure that if they showed our soldiers getting blown up no one would care about this.

theicecreamdan

you can leave all of the bullshit at the door. There are wayyyyyyyyyyyy more ways to defend and serve your country without picking up a rifle. Just because some of us don't get a good feeling when we see people get killed doesn't mean we'll never make our country a better place.

I'm sick of how quickly people will resort to calling other people "liberal cowards" when somebody asks questions. Do you actually give a SHIT about other Americans?

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sidewaysil80

what do you think? sometimes not about other Americans when shit like this comes up but always about America itself. and i stand by my comment alot of people based on upbringing and experience will never raise a hand to defend (not serve, defend) their country.

dude i'm the last person to confuse with the stereotypical brainwashed g.i. type. couldn't be farther from the truth as a matter of fact. but i'm sick of "Americans" only pointing out the bad in the military never the good. not too mention subject at hand no wrong was commited however just because some one put "killz zomg reporterz" in the title, people belief that shit and eat it up. Why? you say you dont get a good feeling seeing people hurt, but do you get a good feeling slandering YOUR own countries military on accusations and stereotypes? "liberal coward" is what every good ol' calls anyone who disaggrees with them, fuck that ignorant shit. i'm liberal as hell on some issues but do i think it is cowardice to criticize and slander a profession in which you know nothing off. fuck yeah. take away dude: big difference between questioning and criticizing. imo its American to question your country, but its un American to criticize it.

Drift N Dragg

I believe you are Wrong.

There is more to the United States Military then just War. But being that you, most likey, never Enlisted you would not know that. The Military has Many Programs that you can't even fathom.. But Once again, you MUST be speaking from experience.

A United States Military Member is Trained to do ALOT more then just Fight. But Once again may I point out, you probly already knew that from Experience.... Oh Wait, no you Don't.

Everyone in some way shape or Form is Apart of the, how did you put it, " So-Called Defense " industry..

Ever heard of the Constitution?

Well let me remind you, Just in case.. It's the tattered pages on which this Great Country was Founded. Written with the Blood and Sweat of Many great American's...

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, and Expression .. Ratified: 12/15/1791 ( The One you are using Now... )

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Here is a Important one..

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed..

So if you look into this.. EVERYONE is in the Defense Industry.. To Protect Your State and Country. We are all ' Minute men ' in a lack of better termanology ..

You said " We Civilians Don't Commit War ".. Boston Tea Party Lead to What? .... Hmmmmm War? Who Fought that War? Hmmmmmmmmm Civilians?? Wow .. Never thought of that.. Weird..

Thousands of Innocents get killed? Just a Question, Which war are you talking about?? You Realize You are in America... If you are feeling like many Innocents have died then maybe you are referring to WWI and WWII inwhich Millions of Innocents died.. But Not at the Hands of American's, But Nazi's... Hmmmm But that is a completely different Thread...

Wrong.. If the Solider's Never fought, countries would invade... Hmm let's see who wanted to invade us.. Japan, Russia, Germany, Italy ( Yes, I said Italy.. Remember Benito Mussolini.. Yup Hell bent on taking over the World too ), and YES believe it or Not, you think Saddam would have Stopped at Kuwait? If you do then I think you need to get a CAT-Scan...

We Fight for the Reason you are here today... Breathe and Bitching in a Completely Free Country.. A Country that is Allowing you to bash our military and have no further recourse but the rebuttle of a Prior Enlist Service member.

You Seem to forget the Pass.. No WAR is different, just a Change in Weapons, Tatics, and Countries.. but there goal is the same..

The Military From the Present to the Past, is the only reason your parents got Drunk and made the mistake of bringing your Selfish, Disrespectful, Ungrateful, and Sorry Ass in this World..

I will Just say this:

I am Calling you a American.

Because in any OTHER country, you would have been inprisioned or killed for Treason..

Now having said that...
To all Service Member's Current or Prior.... I Salute You!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar! More so disgusted. Much like how a dog owner reacts when they notice a dog about to eat some shit off the ground because the dog thinks its a good idea.

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Skyn

cant believe someone would bash the people who fight for us who chose not to fight for others freedoms

really fucking disheartens me to see such disrespect

i have family in the army and air force national guard and marines

all high ranking even my girls family her brother left today from becket mass

my uncle is leaving from tenn 101st air army ranger hes been gone for 8 fucking years i see him for a week why becasue hes fighting for you to sit and bitch and for his family

Drift N Dragg has a point nazi's killed millions of innocents go watch miracle at st annas and watch the nazi's shoot unarmed people on there knees praying on church soil

if i could i would bitch slap you for hating on people putting there lives on the line so you can be a keyboard warrior fairy bitch princess

how would you like it to be over there and someone with an ak comes and put the fucking thing to your head and kills you with no remorse sworn to protect all enimies forgein and domestic i know where my family is going and anything can happen there

from what i was told my uncle shoudla been dead how would you feel if it was your father or son or brother or uncle fucking ant american ass show some god damn respect for something u didnt have the balls to do

MF-T Vixxen

You know "It's funny how some PEOPLE think they know WTF there talking about when really they know nothing at all!!!!"

yarou

This is a pretty heated topic internet wide, and regardless of whether it was right or wrong, actual weapons or not, it's a topic worthy of discussion and opinion. It even includes a video for your viewing pleasure. Some people feel strongly about the war our country is part of, most arent, you should be used to this shit.

get your head out of that gaping asshole

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karl wasabi

+2 This made me LOL real good too.

I saw the video and at first I thought the helicopters were in the wrong. But after thinking about it, I believe they did do the right thing.

This is from like 07 anyways.

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BOROSUN

reminds me of the killing civilians/insurgents like with the sniper bait method they used.

Otto347

Note to self: If im ever in Iraq dont hang out with dudes with AK-47s and RGPs. Thats pretty much common sense.

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ronmcdon

HYPERTEK - you need to work on your composition, lol.
The thread title was confusing.

Back to topic, imo there's insufficient info to make any meaningful accessment here.
I do get the impression the person making the video has some agenda.

That being said,
If anyone had to make a gamble in a situation where it was between staking the life of comrades & themselves,
or than of potential terrorists, I'm sure most would do the same.
It's definetly not a situation I want to find myself in.

I do think it's naive at best to pass negative judgement outright.

kingkilburn

Having an AK proves nothing when you consider just how many of them are out there. If I was Joe Iraqi I think I would have one to protect myself from the militias.

I don't know what intell the pilots had available but based on the video there is no evidence that these were enemy combatants. The pilots do come across as blood thirsty.


The real problem I see is the Army's obvious attempts to keep this under wraps. That more than anything else tells me that obviously something contained within is considered bad press by some one high enough up to deny the request for the video, a video that is our right to see under the freedom of information act.

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lewisfk

[QUOTE=kingkilburn;3385007]Having an AK proves nothing when you consider just how many of them are out there. If I was Joe Iraqi I think I would have one to protect myself from the militias.


U have a point, but when your under specific instructions to keep all firearms inside the house or hut u should! You cant keep the peace with idiots running around with an AK-47! Were at war and there are rules to follow, if u dont follow them trigger happy mother fuckers like myself will shoot u! THE BEST MEDICINE ON THE BATTLEFIELD ARE ROUNDS DOWN FIELD!

kingkilburn

That is bull shit. We get to run around telling ourselves we are the saviors of democracy while stripping others of rights we hold sacred.

Also some of you have your heads deep in your own asses. Whether you would like to admit it or not you have been conditioned to think a certain way, that was the ENTIRE point of basic training.

If you put a rank on your chest every morning your job is WAR. Either you are fighting or supporting the fight. There is nothing else.

The so called defense jibe was probably pointing out that our defense has been doing a lot of offense since the name change. The defense industry is there to make money. It is very difficult to put some kind of patriotic spin trillions of dollars spent to remove souls from bodies. I'm not saying it's all bad but you have to be matter of fact about it.


My last point is a huge one. Just because I don't like the war DOES NOT mean I condemn the people who volunteered to join up.

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raz0rbladez909

Explain exactly what rights you are talking about?

Conditioned to think a certain way, hmm that's funny, what I remember from bootcamp seems to be a shitload of folding clothes, making my bed, learning Navy history, and the occasional weak ass Navy PT. Only once did I shoot a live weapon in boot camp, a 9mm POS Beretta. I'm sure you've been to boot camp, because you know the ENTIRE point of basic training.



Hey you pay taxes right? Congratulations you're supporting the fight........and my paycheck thanks
oh and the main people who put there rank/paygrade on there chest is Army, everyone else normally either wears it on their shoulders, collars, upper arm, or their cover, but you know right because you've been in the military. Right, right? Yes of course you must be right

As is every other industry out there, who do you think makes our weapons, aircraft, boats, uniforms, etc, etc. they certainly aren't going to make them for free. Now unless you meant the Department of Defense, then you still don't know what you are talking about, because last I checked we were going through budget cuts and manning cuts constantly to stay with in limits, tell me how the Defense Department is making money off of war? Do you mean our politicians?

I'm sure I myself don't enjoy war, nor do many of the people that have enlisted, do you think its fun sitting in the desert or on a boat for 6-12-18 months at a time? Some people joined by choice, some people joined out of necessity. Either way you should walk in someone elses shoes before judging them, as well as you should feel proud and lucky, that you don't have to deal with some of the bullshit we do on a daily basis. If only it was like Israel here, where it is mandatory for you to serve a minimal term after high school; maybe then would some of you appreciate the military for what we do for you. I like the new age hippies we've got in America, because you can be the in debt, useless, college students that you want to be, and still complain about the horrible economy and the military, all while sipping some starbucks and being a fat turd. Because you have that freedom, to be useless, and complain but hey at least you can bitch about what somebody else does for a living. kudos to you useless hippies, because without you, I would not be so entertained.

OHHHH and by the way that video was awesome, show me more, guilty by association fucks. Oh they were innocent they were just taking pixxoorrzzzz, you ever wonder why most people don't tend to hang out with drug dealers, or criminals because there's something called GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION. I can't believe some of you guys think that oh they were just taking a stroll with their AK's, and might need protection and who the fuck walks around with an rpg not expecting to get blasted, i'm sure they've seen a bootleg blackhawk down, yeah that might tell you not to bring out one of the most easily noticable weapons into the street while helos are circling above. especially an apache. stupidity amazes me, sometimes i do stupid shit, but thats like asking for it.

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theicecreamdan

People take a little bit of criticism wayyyy too harshly in this thread.

I think that our guys did the best they could do in that situation. It shouldn't have, but it did.

What "good stuff" is the media deliberately leaving out? It was big news when Saddam was captured. What else is there to show? Its war, nothing good is going to come from it.

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sidewaysil80

the shcools, hospitals, libraries we build. for the first time in their lifetime they can express themselves without fear of tortue or prison. kids playing in the street because they don't have to fear the i.e.d.'s set by insurgents. i'm not sure if you understand how it works but pretty much patrols get launched and we check the quality of life and help the people. donate food, toys, school supplies, medical stuff. at the same time we're looking for insurgents, the people love having us there because if their is military coming through neighborhoods daily that means little to know insurgent activity...which again unfolds into kids having a normal childhood and people not afraid to leave their house. they dont have to live in fear of a group of terrorists coming into their home in the middle of the night taking their son to force to be an i.e.d layer or bomber. the media doesnt portray this, they portray the 2% of the people or protests that were loyal to saddam and don't want us there or the FEW times a fuck up on our part occurs. BUT you guys already new this right? ps, i dont think we should have invaded iraq, yeah their lives are better but their are other places we should have been (afghan, rwanda,darfur, etc.) their is no doubt in my mind iraq was invaded for the wrong reasons BUT we did help the people out and as a result of the ill intentioned invasion, the iraqis have a wayyyyyyyyy better life now. so in the end, fuck it, at least one country is better off now.

ps.
just because boot camps are designed to "condition" recruits it doesn't work all the time. only easily impressioned, weak minded people fall into that g.i. joe killing is awesome bullshit. we in the marine corps call them motards (motovation+retards). please don't group me into that category. i sport an anti-flag tattoo, believe 9/11 was an inside job, and am pretty fucking liberal on ALOT of issues. i don't stereotype the people in this thread and i would appreciate the same in return.

JDMpurest

"This place may be bombed and we will be killed. We love death. The U.S. Loves life. That is the big difference between us." osama bin Laden.


"It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities."
osama bin laden




"America is not at war, America is at the mall. The US military is at war"

This video was awesome, I saw some badass apache pilots put mufukin steal on target, thats what we're trained to do. Collateral damage always sucks but its just guilty by association. Kids shouldnt be hanging out in hostile areas in warzones. Anyone who says this war is not about securing Americas freedom has an IQ of 3.Terrorists are not over here, because we are over there.The only thing the taliban care about is killing Americans and Jews.


Every American should be required watch this video every single morning at breakfast.
This video makes me so insanely furious with rage, i especially hate that this guy had the nerve to say "Rest in peace" in the end. That dude needs to rest in peaces in hell.

&fs=1" width="644" height="390">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/enlZFohFBmc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/enlZFohFBmc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



These are all very true words!

"....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -4Star Us Army General, Tommy Franks

"It is the Soldier

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag."

By Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC


"Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and
the American Soldier.

One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."

Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr.

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kingkilburn

Like I said, firmly up asses.


I've spent 18 years living on military installations. I know more about the military than most people serving right now. If you want to pic apart every little thing I said I can do the same back to every one of you self righteous idiots.


By all means remain on your gung-ho high horse because you really are protecting my rights and freedoms a thousand miles into the ocean or half way across the globe kicking in some one else door.



As soon as the fight comes here I'll be the first in line to defend my country.



EDIT: There is no logical defense to made against fervent nationalism(you know that thing we fought against in WW1-2). Depending on how people react I may just drop out of this thread.

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ranger240

oh man this thread is going downhill... we have guys like ka24desonethree blabbing about all this macro stuff where as smart guys like maplejesse break it down into an issue of common sense.

this thread isnt about ideological basis of war/current wars/whatever

its about common sense


i.e. youre hanging around guys flashing guns infront of military guys... youre liable to get shot

those war photographers got shot and risked the lives of those kids bc they're a bunch of adrenaline junkies chasing excitement.

read
War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning by Chris Hedges... its about war photojournalists

they take unnecessary risks to maximize their own utility.

if i was in the ghetto hanging out with a bunch of guys flashing guns infront of cops and got shot, itd be my fault for being a moron... morons die. Darwin wouldnt have it any other way

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Drift N Dragg

I will just say this...

Being a Military BRAT Does NOT mean that you know the Military..

Almost Every military BRAT i know complains.. ' our life sucks this.. My dad's an ass because he is treating me like a solider.. blah Fucking Blah '

Try Joining the Military First... There is a much Different Side that you do not see..

Maybe you are just one of those kids that needs soo much attention that seeing your parent/parents go to Serve there Country and Not stay home to cuddle you and make you Captain Crunch w/ Eggs and Toast, Just Chaps your ass...

How do you think your parent/parents feel if they read what you wrote?

Hmm maybe along the lines of ' Wow, my child thinks I am a failure for trying the protect them the BEST way I can! '..

How about you put some SERIOUS thought into this before your next posting.. Because this world does not Revolve around YOU..

Whether or not you all who are bashing the US, want to see it.. we are ALL still Americans.

So as Put by a Earlier Post.. Go sit your Fat Ass down at a Local Starbucks with there Free WiFi, pull out your laptop.. sip your Java Chip Frappachino get all Hypy with what was wrote and argue..

Its your Right to do so..

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Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar! More so disgusted. Much like how a dog owner reacts when they notice a dog about to eat some shit off the ground because the dog thinks its a good idea.

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kingkilburn

You needs some fucking respect you piece of shit. How dare YOU disrespect my mother who served 20+ years. I fully respect and appreciate those who serve that does not mean I will go kick some other persons door in who is no threat to me nor does it mean I will sit in front the main gate if the nearest installation doing some flower child bull shit.

It is painfully obvious that you read what ever the hell you wanted into mu comments.



You sir can kiss my ass. I am done with this thread.


EDIT: Who the fuck was bashing(for serving) you or calling you unAmerican? I have repeatedly said I think it is very commendable to serve.

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ESmorz

This thread sucks.

I'll just say this, if my friends were headed towards some people who I thought, and was told have weapons I probably would pull the trigger.

That being said, I would never put myself in that position i.e. joining the armed forces and such.

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S14DB

AWESOME DEFLECTION!!!

When the fuck did he talk about your Mother? He was asking how your mom would feel about YOU.

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Drift N Dragg

Wow .. You took that to a Whole New Level..

Never did I talk about your mother in Dis-Respect.. I think you need to Relax and re-read what i wrote..

I would Never Dis-Respect a Military Member, Or someone's Parent, whether or Not they served or Not... That is not who I am or what I am about..

I also never said it was UnAmerican.. I Understand where you stand when it comes to were people Serve..

So take a step back, breathe and realize the statement I have made..

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Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar! More so disgusted. Much like how a dog owner reacts when they notice a dog about to eat some shit off the ground because the dog thinks its a good idea.

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