2fast4y0u

who the hell is bob the oil guy? when did bp come out with a euro blend fuel?

HemiCharger

it is not called euro blend it is a name they dropped but it is still around at select BP stations and that is the Ultimate 100+ octane fuels.

Bob the oil guy is an old forum started by a former oil company engineer. They discuss all things oil and have many threads on premium vs regular grade fuels. Here is one such thread.

Premium Gas vs. Lower Grades - Bob Is The Oil Guy

codyace

Again, if you are tuned that 'close' on your high boost than your tune is simply too agreesive. I don't care what fuel of choice you have or what you've had luck with. This is all I'm saying. You can believe it or not


Your post made it seem as if the reason behind good MPG was your choice of fuel octane and brand (93 Shell). I just wanted to let you/others know that peak MPG will come from the lowest octane. Also, (which it seems is apparent)

Bob the Oil guy is not the 'end all' of these discussions. I guess the track guys running 93 Sunoco aren't getting the same performance? Lets be serious here. Quality fuel (and source) is the most important thing. Buying 93 from a Station in Bumbleweed City, that's been in the ground for a year is going to degrade regardless of fuel brand.

PS: I know higher octane is best for turbo cars, that's common sense. My comment is any quality 93 will work. I run whatever is cheapest in my car, and have since day one. Brand has no effected performance. Heck we even dynoed a car with BJ's (a wholesale club near us, that has gas...generic stuff) 93 and with Exxon 93 (this was 2 years ago) and had zero difference in power performance (as our local forum had a huge discussion on cheap/no name gas and if it hurt power. We found out it didn't.

My pipes are black and I get 30+ mpg to and from the tracks. High 20's mixed city driving. Clean tail pipes tell me 2 things: It's either got a ton of timing in it, or you're on race fuel / e85 /leaded. The 'quality' of fuel makes ZERO difference over a car sooting/dirty black bumpers/ etc etc. That's the tune itself. . Heck my Maxima is rated for 91 or higher. I run 87. The tail pipe is as clean as a whistle. I guess that 87 is just junk right?

Again, do you really have any experience, or just believe what you see on TV?

I always run 93. I'm tuned for 91. That's why my car doesn't ping on 'slightly' different fuel, and yours does. That's all I'm saying. That's all we are ALL saying. Why tune on the ragged edge and restrict yourself - you drive a street car, not a race car. Hell my car sees a boatload of track time, yet I still regard/build/maintain it like a street car. I'm honest with myself, and realistic about the cars. That's the difference. (I run Mobil as well because it's the cheapest synthetic I can buy, and Rotell Diesel grade oil in my Maxima as it's what we have in tanks at the shop, Maxima has 250k on it, 40k of which I put on it. Maybe I'll switch to what the magazines say is best right? LOL)


We have a trucking company and we used to haul fuel tankers (now we're all dry van, as fuel hauling is HELL on trucks, that sloshing eats brakes). Let me ASSURE you that the guys in the Fuel Yards are pumping whatever fuel from the brand/carrier's tanks into their trucks and its' going into their specific gas stations. There isn't any sort of proportioning or 'shell gets the top, exxon second, BP last' as it's all pumped together. It's also filtered before being pumped in trucks, as well as in the tanks before it goes in your car, as well as in your car itself. Bottom line, Have you been to a fuel yard? I have. The only stuff that is often 'hodge podge' are some of the Farm/Fuel ones that 'country' gas stations get. It's whatever the cheapest supplier at the port/yard sells that they buy.


I don't think I know everything - I just know more than you, through experience, not from just reading. When will you get over yourself, accept this, read what we have to say, and learn? I have no problem having discussions with people wanting to learn - I do have an issue trying to discuss things with someone who knows everything from behind the computer screen.

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HemiCharger

It is not that I am pinging all the time and what not. I would have surely have blown my engine now for the past 18 months I have been running this tune. I did not tune it myself as I know nothing about tuning a car. It has been street tuned and then A/F logged dyno tuned. I run 93 cause my car is tuned for 93 and that is all I will run. I can see how running a lower octane fuel could cause problems for me so I usually do not run it. I do not know but if it makes you feel better saying I am tuned on the ragged edge all the while burning no oil and using no coolant is fine with me. I think I would have blown it up by now if that was the case.


I never said that at all -- cleaner higher octane fuels burn more complete and leave less deposits especially nitrogen rich fuel additives such as Shell V Power.


Phd Oil Manufacturing engineers --->>> YOU and YOUR band of expert tuners.

that is evident. there is no power difference but I assure you there is a difference in the internal effects and dynamics of your engine over time.



lots of things can led to carbon build up. Would it not make since to run fuels that have been proven to reduce and help carbon deposits left within the engine?

Nope other than running Shell V Power 93 in most all my vehicles and the increase in performance and the ability to see how my cars react differently then when I run some MFA 93 or whatever?


run what you want and I will continue to run what I want. How do you know you have no knock -- knock really can not even be heard unless it is really bad and by then it is too late. I have the ability to see knock counts when I hit higher boost levels, How about you and your ROM tune?

correct but once the fuel is sent to the dealers tanks the fuel additives are added to them. They Shell, BP, or whoever add things to the fuel which is their own branded substances such as V-Power or whatever.



so you want me to accept that you know everything about tuning and I am just a newbie no nothing. I have read some of your ingenious creative ways to make a ka compressor work with an sr motor or how to run another alternator than the one mentioned for the sr. You do know that the sr a/c compressor is like hella lot smaller than the ka one? right? Some of the stuff such as the sr iron manifold extrude hon process is great but some of the stuff like the alternator solution misses the mark IMO. Your car or anyone that owns a 240sx sr20det swapped car on this forum is only as good as the parts placed on them.

codyace

Whats a tune need to do with burning oil or collant? Didn't realize that Custom tune can effect either. LOL.




Dumbass post of the year? Maybe!

An engine will run most efficient at the lowest octane possible. Lower Octane = quicker burn. This is why guys will loose power running race gas on pump tunes. Again, Iv'e dynoed PERSONALLY more cars than you'd probably even driven. I know what works/doesn't work. Keep blabbing about what you think. I'll post what I know.

A doctorate of Oil manfucturing? I never saw that in a list. Shmuck. You do realize what you ae typing right?


If a fuel burns it burns. It makes no effect. Trust me, that V power commerical looks great and all, but can you proove it?



Proven where? ATT gets good coverage, yet VZ works best here.

Have you dynoed either? Quit trying act like you know what you're talking about. You've successfully trashed my thread with nonsense. Thank you. I actually met a guy the other night that we laughed about your posts. LOL.


Doens't make a difference what you have, considering our stock sensors pick up timing chain noise as knock. Really does you a lot of good not knowing how to tune either. I guess if I pinged alot I'd be blown up....a few years back.


WRONG

Fuel comes to the yard. It gets disperssed to the spefiic brand tank. It then goes to the trucks, which goes to your tank. Easy as that. Sorry to break it to ya, I guess your 'source' has lied to you. it's ok though, now you know.

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codyace

What does size make a difference. Same clutch, same pulley. Different location.

Altenator wise, it's the same 5 rib pulley and same size.

Why try to attack me when you've probably not played with either. I've sold more kits of both than you have tightend lug nuts.

PS: In total physical size, they are the same. Maybe a few cubic inches difference (2 to 4). Do you ahve a point at all here? Who cares abou tsize, it's all about making it work. You can't use SR comrpessor with KA lines - that's the bottom line.

Do you even have a point here? Holy cow. Keep digging, I've been around longer than youv'e owned the 240.

Why does the alternator solution miss the mark? beacuse you can run a big alternator without a hack job kit, or paying someone to weld you one?

Keep trying. I've got all day. It's guys like you that ruin the community, not me. I've provided plenty of help, and met countless people locally who have personally thanked me for helping them. Who are you again?

I love a hater. Makes me feel better. What have you done to help the community?

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codyace

Poor HemiCharger. I guess everytone needs a jackass right?

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jspaeth

Cody, I am actually curious about this...

I personally, ONLY use shell V-power 93 octane.

Now, they advertise it as having "X" additives and nitrogen-enriched etc etc.

You are telling me that all other 93 octanes from any old station are the same?

You say nothing is added after the distribution point where all stations get there gas from.

This implies that every gas station essentially has the same fuel?


If this is true, you are saying 1 of 2 things.

Either

1) ALL 93-octane at ALL gas stations have the "X" additives and nitrogen-enrichment that Shell Advertises.

or

2) Shell is guilty of false advertisement, and their 93 octane v-power is NOT nitrogen enriched and does NOT contain the additives they claim.



Personally, I can't see how this is possible. I believe you get what you pay for and the Joe Schmo gas station's 93-octane does not contain the same additives as something like V-Power does.


Not trying to fight, but this one didn't make sense to me.....

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HemiCharger

Gosh I could spend alnight dealing with your inaccuracies and misinformation. You did not actually read any of that link I provided from Bob is the Oil guy did you?


this is from a person who works in the gasoline business
The way that it was explained to me is as follows: Long chain hydrocarbon molecules are more more difficult to break apart. This improves their ability to resist detonation, which improves octane ratings. Short chain hydrocarbons break apart easily, yielding less stability and lower octane ratings. Anyway, I am quite possibly remembering this wrong, but I believe the above to be true.

As for the gasoline that we manufacture at the refinery where I work, octane is controlled at the plant and not the tanker loading rack. There is no magic "foo-foo" juice that is added to gasoline to improve the octane rating of gasoline as it is being loaded into tanker trucks for delivery that I know of. Octane "improvers" are added at the refinery during the gasoline blending process from what I have been told. Perhaps this is where the confusion comes from?

Agreed, you can adulterate a higher grade fuel down to a lower grade, but you can't additize a lower grade motor fuel into a higher grade. The additive packages added at the terminal are enhancements to whatever the base fuel grade may be, and if the additive package is not sufficiently distinctive, markers may also be added that allow the majors to be able to sample a station's tanks to prove their gas is or is not being sold under their brand.

I sell generic unleaded and premium at my stations, but I won't use it in my cars - they get Shell V-Power only.

that is from a freakin chemist in the business.
Ok then chemical, mechanical, and civil engineers and even some published PhD professors in the field. People with more education in this then you have even been on this planet.


there are numerous threads that deal with the value of it. Stop getting your panties in a wad....



Yeah I dynoed with V-Power at 311 foot lbs of torque within like 10 of where you were with all your supper dupper tuning.

our knock sensors are sensitive and picked up an oil plate rattle as knock on my car.



this is just wrong read the information from the people who process Shell V Power and then come back to this statement. Please.

HemiCharger

no he is full of shit period. If this was the case we need to ready our class action suit on Monday morning.

HemiCharger

no point other than I like me stuff to work like the Nissan engineers designed it to work. Oh and you can use the SR compressor with some custom lines from the KA left overs. I should know cause that is what I run. Cost me about a 150 bucks to have them made.


Listen dude I know what you have done for the community. I run your manifold idea do I not. I just do not agree with all the information that you have posted. I am all about saving money but some corners should not be cut IMHO.

HemiCharger

here a great thread on what V Power does for high performance cars

Shell V-Power? - Bob Is The Oil Guy

My valves and intake called me up the other day to thank me... They are very happy to be clean. They asked if I could call the chemists at Shell and pass on their regards.

2fast4y0u

ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!
ENOUGH FUCKING AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!

LETS GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.

NO ONE CARES WHOS DICK IS BIGGER HERE. FRANKLY ITS MINE

this thread wasnt started for us to discuss which fuel is better, or to bash each other.
any way, i have a SERIOIUS issue with my fuel pump after installing new rom tune chips.

sorry, i didnt mean to start yelling at everyone, but bringing up shit about something that some one else sells and has been selling for awhile is just petty and childish.
lets put this other shit aside and get back to the topic at hand.
if you want to start a which fuel is better thread, then do so.

HemiCharger

Ok. Done -- new engine tech thread in 3...2....1....

2fast4y0u

we arent starting a new thread about this same topic...just take the redonkulous banter somewhere else

and thank you.

mattsil80wis

what does that have to do with anything? Anyone that has a gt2871r should be in that torque range with similar mods....Did you forget that he also makes 60+ more hp than you?


and you saying that running V-power in sr20s leave the rear bumper clean is a lie...all i run in this s13 is v-power and my rear bumper was covered so your point is invalid


anyway....just got a carbon fiber hood and bricks with hids, swapping my brothers slicks from his mustang rims to some 4 lugs that i have and im going to the track soon...hoping for low 11s at 120-125ish

2jz1989240sxhott

ENT vrs jwt , ENTHALPY!

mattsil80wis

thanks for that useless piece of information

you and hemicharger must be friends

2fast4y0u

why are you trying to stir up shit again? i know you can read because you have made your opinions clear so far.
stop the bull shit and get to the topic at hand..no inut, DONT POST.

codyace

Obviously things are added, but my point was that the gas can easily sit there for a long time...and mixtures can certainly be different as well. To say V power at My local station is the exact same as yours is a far cry. Mine could be stale/improperly mixed, etc etc. Let it also be known that different trucks at times (well tankers) can carry the gas. Do you think they are always kept 'v power only'?


My point was that 93 in itself must meet a certain amount of 'requirements' in order to sell. So that country road station having 93 meets XYZ, just like Shell V Power does. Heck I run some country road gas for a few track days (namely up at Watkins Glen) without any issue. So for a car (of any type, not just HemiCharger) to be so 'ragged edge tuned' that it only runs well on specific fuel brand, is both unsafe, unrealistic, and most of all rediculous. This is a sign of a tuner who isn't letting ANY margin for error in a tune, something that I think we can all agree upon is not the way to be. Nissan isn't handing out any Trophies for a guy running 330 hp on the ragged edge ya know? No reason to push it, as ultimatly who does it really impress?

This is why ROM tunes from JWT or Enthalpy work great as they are not tuned on the edge of safety; they dont' require specific fuel brand, they don't require this or that...they just work.

This post pretty much sums up my point of this thread. You didn't even get close to my ROM tune, which was tuned by someone 3000 mils away, who never even SAW my car. The same with the car I made this thread about, as we had two tuners both 3000 miles (well Enthalpy may be 1500 or so) both make more power and torque than a Standalone did.

This should show everyone how close, reliable, and similar these ECU's are. This should also go to show that just because your car has a standalone, or is tuned by a 'professional' does not mean it will make the most power, safe power, or a combination of the two. For the most part, every 28RS/2871r+ car will make 310-340 ft lbs without issue on a pump gas tune...it's just what they make. The different always seems to be in the HP department with these cars.

I am not saying that everyone should go out and get a rom tune; there are cars that simply are beyond their capability, as well as cars below the threshold for them. But for anyone looking to make 250-450 whp, the ROM setups we have available to the 240 crowd (and Nissan crowd in general) are phenomenal. Heck, even the ECU's tuned overseas by the larger tuning shops are known to make good power (in Japan) without ever being specifically tuned on the car.


So much like I had asked you MANY posts ago (one you probably misread, much like every other time I asked), I am not interested in your car's standalone tune in this thread...especially with it not even being in the same breath as Enthalpy/Secret Services, or Jim Wolf Technology tuned ECU's. This thread was to serve as a showcase/example to everyone that making a solid 380-410 whp is easily replicated with our setups, with either ECU on the Market. That is all. I don't like to get into 'flame fests' or 'insult threads' but when you post from what you've read, and I post from experience, it makes it hard to ever have a conversation. I'm not a resident expert, but my experience with these cars far surpasses yours. I do not think I am better than you because of this, or anything of that sort. I just wish you'd take this thread as an opportunity to learn. I'm not sure what got you on this fuel thing, but it's hilarious to say the least (especially where you said V power won't smoke up a back bumper LOL). I always run 93 - I just don't care what brand it is - I just suggest others to tune safely, smartly, and without constricting a car.


I know; I've said that in this thread. This is why they are turned off past 4k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiCharger no point other than I like me stuff to work like the Nissan engineers designed it to work. Oh and you can use the SR compressor with some custom lines from the KA left overs. I should know cause that is what I run. Cost me about a 150 bucks to have them made.

You spent 35 bucks extra to have the same thing. It's all good though. Hopefully the dirty/oil impregnated lines don't have issues with the welds, as even a professional can't promise their won't be an issue. Trust me, if that way was the easy/no issue way, I'd be having them made for everybody. Bottom line is, an adapterbracket with factory lines and compressors always works. Funny how you trust Nissan Engineers with your AC, but allow a 'regular joe' to tune your car. Just keep that in the back of your mind. Not saying your buddy can't tune, but its' not a Nissan Engineer or Motorsports Tuner...like my ECU.

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mattsil80wis

im not trying to start anything...its just tired of reading information that is a waste of time in this thread

HemiCharger

I am not tuned on the ragged edge like cody would like you all to believe. My A/F ratios were and are well within the safe range and I only pinged on some bad gas that I picked up from a BP station in another state. This could have happened to anyone in the 240 community. Turning off a knock sensor past 4 grand is just not smart but who am I to talk. Happy ROM tune thread cause I am not posting here again. My tuner is excellent and good and I trust him. So, no more posting in this thread draw your own conclusions.

codyace

Posts like this are pretty easy to determine who knows what they are talking about, and just further prove how much you have to learn yet. I'm glad you trust your tuner. I'd be upset it doesn't make as much power as these ROM cars do, but that's just me.

Again, consider these points. This is just good solid information foreveryone considering these tunes for the car, and their alternatives.

• If a car 'pings' on random 93, it's got to much timing. JWT and Enthalpy ECU's dont' do that
  
• AFR has NOTHING to do with detonation. 11.3 @ WOT with 28 degres will melt a piston. Much like 12.7 @ WOT with 10 degrees of timing won't pop a motor either. I'd rather make power with boost and fuel, not timing. Once again, ROM tunes are safe in this area as their timing maps are very conservative, yet their fuel is a bit on the safe side. I'll always be a fan of big fuel big boost low timing. I'd rather potentially lift a head with 35 psi than shatter a piston making the same power at 25 psi by keeping it hot.
  
• You just said your knock sensor picks up phantom knock. What good is that when you have a safe tune, yet picks up the timing chain rattle and confuses it for knock, which brings back power potential? There are easily 3000+ cars out there with JWT tunes on all sorts of Nissans...I'm certain Enthalpy has tuned a huge amount as well...I'd trust them and what they decide is safe or not safe.
  
• Remember, AFR/Knock count are just 'tools' used in tuning -- they should NEVER be trusted 100% or followed as gospel.
  
• I'm not claiming a standalone CAN'T make more power reliably...that's not my claim at all. I know for a fact their are 425+ guys (hell look at this thread alone with 4x4lx for example). It is possible to make even more power, but that comes with knowledge, and experience. Again, the example in here with what is possible with some more timing/e85 on stock cams is incredible...just goes to show everyone how much timing affects power.
  

Remember, at the end of the day, reliability is the biggest concern out of any car I play with. I'd always take a few HP off peak to keep it reliable 'just in case' The world's a strange place anymore...I'd rather side with caution/safety than the dynograph wars

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Slidin' Sam

Wow! This thread got REALLY intense. Last time I read it, we were talking about the difference in tunes between JWT and Enthalpy, right?...while this fuel debate is a good topic for everyone to research and discuss, can we put it in a different thread?

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sirfallsalot243

I think its all good information, even though its gone OT. Its like mythbusters. Hemicharger gives us the myth, and Cody BUSTS it. haha.

I dont have an issue with a thread going offtopic if the topic still has good information, which this thread is loaded with.

HemiCharger

you know what all you nickel and dimer douche bags who do not have the money or the time to do their cars the right way and end up blowing up their POS s13s up deserve what you get. It is shit talkers like you all following some other idiot who thinks they know everything that gives this community such a bad rap. I have ran my car a lot longer than cody ricer and I have NEVER EVER blown it up or melted a piston. I remember calling the ROM tuners before I bought my Apexi and was so impressed that I decided to spend 2 - 3 times as much to make less power. Sure? I am not as modified engine wise as most of you all. I do not run 11 or 11.5 degree cams so I should not make as much up top. So keep spending 10 dollars for a bracket 300 dollars for a tune and keep having the bracket vibrate and slide loose and run your canned tune based off somebody's setup for as long as it does not blow up your car. Their is no changing your minds that is why I decided not to post in this thread and then you continue to attack with your misinformation and pure stupidity.

Turn off a knock sensor cause it picks up timing chain rattle come on? If you knock sensor is picking up timing chain rattle then you have something else going on. I bet my car is still running when codyace's shit is melted and blown up and setting in his know everything's tuners garage. Prue and utter stupidity.

sirfallsalot243

To the outside person, its VERY easy to see who in this thread knows what theyre talking about and who doesnt. You have SOME knowledge about cars, but youre incredibly narrow-minded. You keep insisting on making this a standalone vs rom tune discussion, which isnt what Cody was trying to do here at all. YES, a standalone can do more than a rom tune. The point he was making (ie, the point that you keep missing, over and over again) is that GREAT RESULTS can be had from a ROM tune WITHOUT spending a lot of money. Whether or not we have the money for standalone is irrelevant. The point hes making is that you dont NEED to spend that $1500 on a PFC when your goals are only in the 400whp range.

I dont have the money to do my car the right way? My last car was a fully built NATURALLY ASPIRATED 1.8L that made 200whp on a dynojet, with AEM EMS. You think youve got money into your car, try an NA setup. Dont tell me I'm too poor to do things the right way. I'm just not going to throw my money away on a standalone ECU when its WAY OVERKILL for what I'm trying to do.

I thought you werent posting in here anymore? Seriously, Ill paypal you $10. Just stfu. Each argument you make, each time you cut Cody down, just shows how obvious it is that youre reaching for anything to make your point valid. His A/C brackets are tried and true. Youre just attacking them because in a real technical discussion, you get your ass handed to you time and time again. Seriously. Just stop.

HemiCharger

it is in a different thread under Engine Tech

jspaeth

I just want to point out that in my LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH MY CAR, the OEM knock sensor is working VERY well for me.

I have a PFC....with stock head, I would see typical knock counts of 10-12 or less when getting on it.

Occasinally (due to piston slap I think) at very high RPM when hitting fuel cut or in between hard shifts, I would see it spike to like 50 or 60 for a SPLIT second.


After installing my bigger cams and stiffer valve springs, I now see it go up to around 20 on normal driving at high RPM....this is normal.

ONE time, I overboosted and actually heard the engine knock (only a little bit for a second).

Sure enough, the knock sensor read in the 70s.

That being said, I believe MY knock sensor (OEM) on MY setup is working just fine. I feel that I have driven the car enough that I know that knock of 20 or less is just drivetrain noise.

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codyace

This engine has nearly 15 HPDE days on it without issue, That's nearly 2 to 3 hours of WOT, hard on and off, downshifting, big water temps, etc etc. No issues. Think what you want about how great your car is, and I'll remember when I'm going 150 at the Glen, and then getting on the binders to 60, only to get going 110 again into the boot. I'll also think about it when I drive my car home from the track.

I don't have a tuners garage. I built this myself. From the rod bearings to the coilover gland nuts, and from the Roll bar to the alignment. Trust me kid, the car's beyond your capability, so why even talk shit. If you feel the need to put my car down, or say how shitty it is, I'll cover your gas to drive out here for a track day to compare. Get that last word in, you really need it. How's it feel to be the laughing stock of the thread?

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