LimeLite Racing

We don't have sales tax here in Oregon. How do the illegals pay taxes for what they buy up here?

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Drift.

kingkilburn

For the 45 states with sales tax they pay a good deal of taxes.

For the five backwards states that don't, you guys are just missing out.



If I could change tax law I would go for a "Fair Tax". The issue of illegals not paying taxes would be nonexistent. With a "Fair Tax" tourism would pay more in tax revenue in many places than the current income taxes do.

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theicecreamdan

A fence isn't going to do anything. Even poor people are smarter than a fence.

and under what circumstances is anybody allowed to ask me to show my proof of citizenship?

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g6civcx

I am writing my master's thesis in women's study.

It's unfair to say that the oppressor is "white" and "man".

It's the oppressor mentality. Not the person doing the oppressing. You can have black/asian/hispanic/female people employing the same mentality.

You're not fighting a particular sex/gender or skin colour; you're fighting a mentality.

jspaeth

This is the dumbest excuse ever. So big whoop, poor people and illegal immigrants pay 5-7% on sales tax.

Still bullshit, considering even the lowest tax bracket pays 15% or so in income tax.

So to say that "paying sales tax is still paying taxes" is a load of shit.


You didn't read that in context. I was saying that's how I would have it to shut up all these stupid politically correct pains in the asses.

Make it so that everyone has to carry proof of citizenship.

The only people who think that having to show ID is a problem are people who don't have one.

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g6civcx

As I've said earlier, you need to audit the IRS filings. I do not know the exact figure because it's been a while since I've been in the IRS system, but there exists tax filings from people with no Social Security Number.

That means that there is a portion that don't have US citizenship but they still pay taxes.

I have prepared the federal health care budget. A very small percentage of the national budget actually goes into patient care.

The vast majority of the US health care spending (I estimate about 65%) goes into non-patient care or gets wasted.

If anyone actually followed the federal budget debate and understood what the hell is going on, they will recognize this.

Assimilate or conform? If you don't recognize that every culture has good things and bad things, then just say so.

Take the good leave the bad. Goes for all cultures. Very simple.

Please define for me what it means to be an "American".

Would I meet your criteria? If not, does that make me a bad person? How many people living in the US would actually meet your criteria?

I think you have issues with courtesy more than ethnicity.

If there were a gay pride parade, how would you feel? How about a military parade that's loud as hell and all the soldiers get drunk and burned down the whole town?


I have worked with a lot of homeless and/or economically disadvantaged people that you would call "poor".

Many of these people have underlying mental and physical health problems that need to be addressed. There is no money and staff to help all these people for free.

It's nobody's fault. Some people are just crazy and beyond help.

Actually the Hispanic population is hugely Catholic, and the vast majority tend to be Republican. Hispanics share a lot of values proclaimed by the Republican Party, like abortion, gay, gun, spending, defense, etc.

I find it ironic that the Republican Party is shunning its own potential support base.

Did you actually get to know any Hispanic people other than just seeing them around town?

I have no problems at all with this, except that you know the fence is absolutely useless and it's a huge waste of money.

The money and manpower could be better spent elsewhere.

g6civcx

Your statements are not logical. Paying $0.01 in taxes is still paying taxes.

You may want to rephrase your statement to state that immigrants do not pay enough taxes under your standards.

How much is enough? 30%? 50%? Pay-per-use?

kingkilburn

g6civcx

I wasn't bashing Woman's studies or any of the other related classes. I have just found that most of the people teaching these classes have their heads up their asses. They blame the ills of the world on the white man or men in general. Usually the point of the class is to show why the subject of the class is superior to every one else.

I have had a class or two and know of a few people who took classes that broke that mold.



jspaeth

It would seem your entire argument is based on your own opinion and devoid of any kind of facts.

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zeitgeist

if i was hispanic id move the fuck outta that state. It pretty much gives any kind of authority an excuse to profile and harass you.

Yes illegal immigration is a big ass problem but there are ways to go about preventing illegals in the country and this is a horrible way.

And what is showing a drivers license good for? Hell every illegal immigrant has one. Sooooo unless cops start asking for a birth certificate, SS card, and a bunch of other shit it makes this act worthless. Oh wait, they can get all that stuff too.....

This act is just political hoorah

And real talk, if u were in the situation many of these illegals were in, youd do the exact same shit they are doing

HyperTek

i doubt you will get profiled if you drive a nice/clean car with good plates/tags... if your driving a piece of shit, expect to get pulled over regardless of your ethnicity, i know so many non-minorities who drive jalopies and have no insurance.. sure thats unrelated, but still driving illegally.

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upsdude

if someone came into your house and started demanding food and shelter, would you like it?

we share a geographic border with mexico, so of course the majority of illegals are going to be mexican/south american. the reason we don't have the same problem with illegals come in from our northern borders (canada) is because they're not a 3rd world country. mexico benefits from this because they don't have to deal with the poor people, and america becomes the welfare safety net.

drift213

correct me if im wrong but illegal people taking American jobs?? NO i don't thinks so if you don't have a job you are nothing but a lazy ass mother fuck3r that don't have what it takes to keep one and do sh!t right so you wont lose it!!! just answer this WHO ARE THE ONES ASKING FOR CHANGE OUT THE FREEWAY EXITS?? if you see a Illegal person out on freeway exits they are always selling flowers, or oranges or whatever but they are not lazy to just ask for change. I was born in this country but IM PROUD OF HAVING LATINO ROUTES IF YOU GO BACK ON YOUR FAMILY NOBODY IS FROM THIS COUNTRY ONLY NATIVE AMERICANS.. so if you call yourself AMERICAN LOOK BACK ON YOUR FAMILY BACKGROUND SEE WHERE YOU ARE FROM..MOST LIKELY YOU ARE NOT AMERICAN SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOUR BUTT WHOLE MAYBE NEXT TIME IT WONT QUIFF HAHAHA

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HyperTek

this is the problem.. illegals taking low paying jobs, employers who rather pay em chips rather then pay a legit person minimum wage. Try being a legit person living off minimum wage, its harder now due to all the living expenses without going insane.

Its bad enough there is soo many labor jobs that pay soo little, employers take advantage of the fact that people will work for so little, really fucks it up.

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Keep it Classy

ronmcdon

Keep this civil now, let's not stoop to uncivil presumptions here.

ranger240

exactly, you're innocent until proven guilty. guilty people have been running around for years, now they're going to be proven so and they're pissed claiming all this whoopla about it being racist/anti-mexican

guess what? IT IS. Its against mexican citizens hanging out in AZ when they arnt supposed to. If i wanted to move to europe i couldnt just show up and say, "i'm here, deal with it, i'm not leaving."

anytime you talk to a cop they want to see an ID, how is this scenario any different?

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kingkilburn

The probable cause is based on the "suspicion" of the citizenship.

Now you tell me who appears suspicious.

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zeitgeist

well one point id like to make on the low paying jobs is that if these mexican workers were replaced with higher paid employees then the cost of all the goods we buy will also go up ALOT. And that would greatly affect all those who are legal but are still poor
Not saying whats right or wrong, just throwing this into the fire

kingkilburn

So you aren't willing to pay more knowing that others will get payed?

The more money we put into the economy the more we get back out. That means higher wages and stronger currency.

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ranger240

this argument ignores one distinct variable that always occurs when wages go up

mechanization i.e. capital equipment (and new technology) is developed to perform tasks previously done by labor which has become too expense. that innovation is great for the efficencey of the economy and country. it develops new high paying jobs, yes it eliminates some low paying jobs. but if we never innovated and embraced technology a majority of our economy would still be slugging away in the fields growing corn wishing someone would develop a john deere tractor


look up whats happening in florida, labor to harvest oranges is getting expensive so they're developing new agricultural equipment to do so. why is this important? it helps florida stay competitive with their foreign competitors in south america where labor will always be cheaper than the US (for the near future). i know what the obvious flippant counter to this reality is going to be, but hey like i said, new technology allowed us to get out of the fields and into the classrooms.


one final nail in this coffin. look back to the mid 19th century, labor was CHEAP, dirt cheap. labor was slavery and cost next to nothing to employ. Imagine this scenario, slaves are made free, costs will surely rise right? wrong it didnt happen. yes there were a ton of residual issues for decades of underpaying blacks, but guess what it helped stimulate? the great migration to northern cities. it didnt topple the US economy, we innovated and moved on.

technology can supplement workers, if people out there really want to argue that we need thousands of people to pick strawberries because nobody in america can develop a better way, well then your opinion of america is so messed up theres no point arguing with you, go read a book

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g6civcx

I strongly, strongly disagree. I've taken more than 2 classes. I've actually spent many years in the department so I know what's going on.

If you wanted to talk about it, we can. Most feminist theory text uses a very specific language. If you haven't had 2 years of basic sociology, you will most likely misinterpret what the text is saying.

For example, if you read feminist text that says "men are evil", you have to understand that "men" refers to a way that people act, not what people are. Anyone can act like a "man", and it is this act that is evil.

There is actually no definition for "man" or "male" in science, politics, or law. We don't actually have a requisite standard for determining if a person is "male" or "female".

The closest we have is people claiming to be one or the other, or none at all. Or sometimes we'll have society determining what is and isn't manly, but usually this standard is not unanimous or uniform.

Like most of us would normally consider that if you have a penis, you would be male. But if you spent years studying biogenetics like I have, you'll find that it's not as simple. There are so many cases where it's not clear if a person has a penis or not. There is actually a whole medical specialty dedicated to determining the sex of a person, and most times they can't tell.

Most people in gender study understands this. So when they say "men are evil", we know that they're talking about the act, not the people.

Confused yet?

The people you're talking about are probably just immature and haven't learned enough to understand. If I met any of them I would definitely love to school them.

kingkilburn

The statement "men are evil" is why that field of study is bs. Individuals CAN be evil but to say an entire group is evil is wrong and unscientific. I don't care how you identify "men" it is still flawed.

I am a man. I am not evil. Therefor "men" are not evil.
Hitler was a man. He was evil. Therefor a man can be evil.





Maybe we should start a new thread or take this to PM. I don't see this discussion being resolved in a short number of posts and we shouldn't totally thread jack.

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upsdude

lol did this thread take a turn towards discussing women's studies?

zeitgeist

good point. But technology cant replace everything. Some things are still going to require hands on works

kingkilburn

In the past the jobs lost due to mechanization were gained in the manufacture and maintenance of the said equipment.

For the most part these days the manufacturing is done overseas so there are a significant number of jobs lost.

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g6civcx

I'll take it a bit more and see if the mods have issues.

The fundamental issue rests with how you define "man". You are using the word but you are not defining what it is.

I need a specific checklist of what you need in order to be a "man".

I guarantee you 100% that if I took your list to some of the top biogeneticists in the country, all of them would disagree with your list. I will and I have. They all disagree with each other as well. There is no consensus on which genetic marker makes you a "man" or not.


You can say you don't care how the word is defined, but the way you're using the word is different than how other people define the word. If we don't have a consensus on what different words mean, then we can't communicate and we have misunderstandings.

"men" is used to describe a role. Anyone can step up into this role. The "Man" can actually be any race and any sex. You ever seen black people get pissed at other blacks that sell out? A black person can, and often do, assume the role of the white oppressor.

"Fuck Tha Police" by N.W.A.? Black police showing out for the white cop? Sound familiar?

The premise of gender study is that we all aspire to be better than who we are by what we do.

Like Dr. King said. We shouldn't judge peopleby the colour of their skin, but instead by the contents of their character as illustrated by how they help their fellow human beings.

We don't judge people by who they are, but what they do. Everyone can make themselves better than what history has shown us. Just because your skin is white and you have a penis doesn't mean you're doomed for life. You have the same opportunity to treat human beings with decency and respect as everyone else.

Just because you're not a white male doesn't mean you have some kind of debt owed to you by society. You have to work just as hard as everyone else.


Being a "man" is not what you are, but what you do.

"Step up, son. Be a man. Face your responsibilities".

You never hear: "Run away from your responsibilities. You're still a man because you have a penis".

You would never hear your respectable elders say this.


Of course you'll hear things like: "One man is a dog. Therefore, all men are dogs. Men are all the same." Instead of walking away, this is an opportunity for you to step up to show those stupid people that you can be better than what they expect you to be.

If you are a true alpha-male, you would dominate this situation and show them what's up instead of running away. It's pretty much your cue that some stupid people need schooling.


Gender study is about social progress. We need to get over social stereotypes and see each person as an individual capable of being good or bad.

It's exactly like you said. One bad apple doesn't spoil the barrel.

Any question?

g6civcx

In the Louisiana bayou, there is a small fishing village consisting of several hundred mostly Southeast Asian immigrants. This hundreds or so people supply the US with most of the 30% of our seafood that come from this area.

Now I know these people personally through their relatives.

These guys are hardcore. They're ultra old school. They don't use any modern technology.

They find fish the way they have done so for hundreds of not thousands of years.

It's crazy. They tell me stuff like they'll listen to the wind current and know where the big schools of fish are. No sonar fishfinders.


Most of their competitors use ultra-high tech fishing vessels, but they still outfish their competition using old school techniques.


Technology only solves some of our problems. Not all our problems. Only some.

kingkilburn

The problem with woman's studies is that they are trying to use science to back up their opinion(generally hardcore feminism) rather than using science to explain a specific behavior. It is not proper sociology or anthropology and usually if you say this you are called chauvinistic.

We all instinctively know what a man is. There are gray areas but generally you know. It's the same as some men saying they have "gaydar". You believe with a good level of certainty that this guy is gay but when asked what the criteria is it is very hard to explain. The fact that you can't fully explain the feeling doesn't negate it.


I do not refute that male chauvinism exists but the idea that the same behavior is not possible in a "woman" is offensive to me.

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ripnbst

Legal citizens should just start going around killing illegals. Law enforcement would probably not be real inclined to do a very thorough investigation. If we made America more dangerous for them than Mexico they would think twice about coming here.

The hardest part about this is determining their immigration status. If you havent figured it out yet I am for the laws.

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zeitgeist

Ripnbust stfu. People with your mindset are the problem with the world

Exactly. Great example

g6civcx

I would not call you chauvinistic; I would call you ignorant. Spend time and understand the people you criticise. If gives your argument more credibility.

No, it is not instinctive. The "gray" area is HUGE. As high as 30 or even 40% of the population have sex discrepancy issues.

How do I know? I worked 5 years in a major hospital documenting abnormal births. Seen the baby with the penis in the back? That came from the ward I worked at.

There are two types of "gay" people: 1) people who want to conform to society's standards, and 2) people who just want to be left alone.

Most of what you're talking about is #1. These people are stupid. I'll tell it to their face. They're making the gay discrimination worse when they talk bullshit like this.


Did you read anything I wrote?

You either didn't read or didn't understand. So you're either lazy or stupid. Stop being lazy!

You said the same thing I said. There's nothing to argue or refute.