RB25DET or Built KA-T? - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*NemeGuero* · 09-30-2005, 12:13 AM

I know what I know and when I don't know I don't act like I do.. hahaha
yah.. i originally wanted to go RB so I researched it alot.. I would love to have one but it seemed a little out of my price range and 2 years ago parts weren't so available to me for the RB as they are now, so KA was my choice and turbo fell into my lap.

I'll keep you posted on my build and give you a build-cost tally

you may be right.. I sometimes get overzealous on finishing deadlines and costs.. we shall see

and dude.. I'd love to ride in your RB someday..

MaD1337M3DRiV3r · 09-30-2005, 12:24 AM

Personally i think the RB isnt worth a crap, it weighs more than a small block chevy. The KA is great if you do your own work and know what you are doing. I say forget both of them.. get this:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...99&prmenbr=361

or you could just get a junkyard 350 sbc and make way more power for less

ALTRNTV · 09-30-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaD1337M3DRiV3r

Personally i think the RB isnt worth a crap

This coming from someone with 1337 in their username..

MaD1337M3DRiV3r · 09-30-2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

This coming from someone with 1337 in their username..

and this is coming from someone who claims to be an “academic”, but cant spell.

ALTRNTV · 09-30-2005, 01:10 AM

Nice comeback.

The topic asked for KA-T or RB25, not any of the engines you posted.

MaD1337M3DRiV3r · 09-30-2005, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

Nice comeback.

The topic asked for KA-T or RB25, not any of the engines you posted.

RB25DET 20 46.51%
Built KA24DE-T 20 46.51%
Other (make a post about it) 3 6.98%

ALTRNTV · 09-30-2005, 01:24 AM

PWNED.

You don't really think he's gonna go with an LS7 do you. He's already made his mind and went with a KA-T. Inline 6 turbo > junkyard 350 sbc (as you said).

I'd go with an RB25DET myself. KA-T's are great and all, but you get 2 more liters and the torque and powerband is greater with the I6.

MaD1337M3DRiV3r · 09-30-2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

PWNED.

You don't really think he's gonna go with an LS7 do you. He's already made his mind and went with a KA-T. Inline 6 turbo > junkyard 350 sbc (as you said).

I'd go with an RB25DET myself. KA-T's are great and all, but you get 2 more liters and the torque and powerband is greater with the I6.

- I suggested the LS7 because the poll requested suggestions.
- He can have a KA-T and still get a LS7 later on, no one is bound to one motor
- Please re-read my post, i stated that the junkyard 350 will make more power for less
- You would rather go with a rb25, so you dont have either...
- 2 more liters? The KA is a 2.4 liter engine, the RB25DET is a 2.5 liter engine.
- torque + powerband... it depends on a lot of variables

ALTRNTV · 09-30-2005, 02:27 AM

Woops. Got me there. I meant 2 more cylinders, not liters. Haha

I've ridden in my friends 300rwhp SOHC KA-T and boy did that puppy pull, HARD. A week after that, my long time friend Jon visits me with a surprise under his hood. RB20DET. He showed me his dyno sheet and it was 305rwhp and something like 320tq @12psi, or close to that. He took me for a drive. RB hands down. Mind you that his was an RB20, I've yet to feel how an RB25 feels like. I'm waiting for my friend to finish his RB25 install.

SimpleS14 · 09-30-2005, 07:24 AM

drift freaq - When you say "RB"...you mean "RB25DET" right? Because I drove a RB20DET...but I think that's different...or am I wrong? I was browsing some Skyline forums and I read or skimpped over threads where guys blow piston rings on the RB25 when they crank up the boost. Why is this?...does the drivetrain layout have something to do with it? (longer driveshaft = more work) How much can the RB25 handle on stock internals?

MaD1337M3DRiV3r · 09-30-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

drift freaq - When you say "RB"...you mean "RB25DET" right? Because I drove a RB20DET...but I think that's different...or am I wrong? I was browsing some Skyline forums and I read or skimpped over threads where guys blow piston rings on the RB25 when they crank up the boost. Why is this?...does the drivetrain layout have something to do with it? (longer driveshaft = more work) How much can the RB25 handle on stock internals?

"poor ringlandings" is what i read was the problem. I too have seen those threads where people pull out a piston and it crumbles.

ALTRNTV · 09-30-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

drift freaq - When you say "RB"...you mean "RB25DET" right?

Yes. He means the 25. He has one in his car and is currently making install kits for it.

vinhisbored · 10-01-2005, 05:09 PM

Back on topic, I say the built KA-T, just because 'to me' it's more affordable, and it's going to be in my daily driver, I don't have the time, money, and I need it to get around. [Well, speaking with a basic turbo kit first, then working up to having it built.] My friend is going through a RB25 swap as we speak, and he's spent alot.. I think in the end, around 9k, but then that's with 'custom fabrication' done, but very clean work.

drift freaq · 10-01-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

drift freaq - When you say "RB"...you mean "RB25DET" right? Because I drove a RB20DET...but I think that's different...or am I wrong? I was browsing some Skyline forums and I read or skimpped over threads where guys blow piston rings on the RB25 when they crank up the boost. Why is this?...does the drivetrain layout have something to do with it? (longer driveshaft = more work) How much can the RB25 handle on stock internals?

I think those guys might have been pushing it real hard. basically you can run a RB25 all day at 11lbs of boost without a problem. Also stock internals can handle large numbers. Without changing the oil pump you can run up to 400-500 HP change your oil pump and you won't run into the ringland problem they are talking about.

Now to address vinhisbored. The whole point of us designing the kit was to take all the expensive fabrication stuff your talking about out of the picture. I outlined it before, I will outline it again $2500 for a clip. $1000 for a kit . $3500 then if you wire yourself you save $300 but otherwise $300 for wiring . We are also developing a FMIC kit.
Now you could run that with the stock manifold and the sidemount intercooler with a boost controller and your probably going to get close to 250 whp. Bolt on a few upgrades like the Greddy intake, Q45 throttle body, fmic and your going to get into the 300 whp range at 11lb's. thats still at the $4800 mark. Now thats a reliable daily driver as well.
You will spend that much or more to get the KAT there, and in the end with the RB you still have a better engine.
Go ahead, go with the KAT because its cheap in the beginning, but once you start going for the HP, its going to add up quickly.
If your poor, you should not be entering this discussion to begin with, because basically, either setup KAT or RB, is going to cost you somewhere in the 4-5k range, to get those HP figures we have been talking about.

I just feel if your going to spend that money, do it on a engine that is nice to start. Not one that was built for the American car buyer, who does not care about smooth and high revving, they just want torque.

TheSnail · 10-01-2005, 11:51 PM

The run down of what driftfreaq is saying is: HP is addictive, There is no such thing as enough. While there may be a difference in initial costs, down the road hp for the 25 will be pennies to the dollar. My old boss was like some of you guys. Kept telling me "Why would you get a rb25 when you can build a sr with more hp for the same price as a stock 25" and my response was always "Then what".

drift freaq · 10-02-2005, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSnail

The run down of what driftfreaq is saying is: HP is addictive, There is no such thing as enough. While there may be a difference in initial costs, down the road hp for the 25 will be pennies to the dollar. My old boss was like some of you guys. Kept telling me "Why would you get a rb25 when you can build a sr with more hp for the same price as a stock 25" and my response was always "Then what".

A fitting finish!!! I do not think there needs to be anymore debate in this thread, its pretty much game over!! RB wins!! If you KA guys cannot see the logic behind this, then.....

vinhisbored · 10-02-2005, 02:11 AM

Yes, I did read the first outline, and I understand completely where you are coming from, there's power, and the internals are pretty fine for a while. In the beginning, I was also planning about the whole RB25 thing (like exactly a year ago) but then after researching about how much money I'd have to come up with, that just died. For now, when I get my basic turbo kit running, I hope to be sufficient until I can slowly work my way up. It'll be fun either way.. and who knows.. maybe the second project will be RB25 and up..

240SeXy! · 10-02-2005, 03:48 AM

I laugh becouse I got a complete front clip for 1,000 bucks..

and yes it will be better than sr's and wastefull Ls1-7. For this price, how could i not buy it, When i start putting it in my s14 ill keep you guys updated..

:P

cheerz

drift freaq · 10-02-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240SeXy!

I laugh becouse I got a complete front clip for 1,000 bucks..

and yes it will be better than sr's and wastefull Ls1-7. For this price, how could i not buy it, When i start putting it in my s14 ill keep you guys updated..

:P

cheerz

congrats , now you can come buy the best install kit on the market from us. email me for pics and info. shameless self promotion here

vinhisbored · 10-02-2005, 01:01 PM

Where did you get one for $1000? I want one now

. Someone go buy my KA-T KIT! Haha!

drift freaq · 10-02-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinhisbored

Where did you get one for $1000? I want one now

. Someone go buy my KA-T KIT! Haha!

I don't know, but he has been posting in peoples for sale threads, about how he got the same part they are selling for cheaper and parading it. Its like ok we got the point you got a hookup. I get hookups on stuff too, but I don't go shouting to the world about it. That as we know breeds resentment.

SimpleS14 · 10-02-2005, 09:29 PM

I guess I will just wait until this install kit comes out. I fear prices for the RB will increase though....so who knows.

haggards13 · 10-04-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

I guess I will just wait until this install kit comes out. I fear prices for the RB will increase though....so who knows.

I hate that you're right.
Hopefully I can get mine within the next 2 months.

drift freaq · 10-04-2005, 04:05 PM

guys, the install kit is out for the S13 and being tested on a S14 sometime in the next month. email me for more info [email protected]
P.S. We just have not done an official product announcement of the install kit as of yet.

kouki_s14 · 10-04-2005, 07:30 PM

i am also considering both options as of now and ka-t is winning for one main reason
i would LOVE to have the RB in my car, but im in so cali and i get scared that a cop will pull me over and will ask me to pop my hood, im not sure what will happen, but the chance of it getting towed away is there and i dont want to risk spending all that money on the RB and get it taken away. yes turbo KA is also illegal but it's a lot less eye catching, maybe i can hide the turbo with a heat shield or something. theres nothing that can hide a huge 6 banger

if anyone has ideas of how to help me get through that then please inform all of us, im sure there are a lot of people on the forums that would like to know, otherwise i think i may just have to stick with the KA

drift freaq · 10-04-2005, 09:36 PM

Face it , if your going to go KA turbo the cop is going to see. They are no longer that ignorant. If your that scared about getting pulled over and losing it, you should not be doing anything performance wise. Just sell your car and buy something powerful new and legal.
Fact is I live in L.A. just like you do and unless your down in Culver City or out drag racing in the San Fernando Valley or driving stupidly out in Industry you really do not have to worry. My friends and I have driven modded engine cars here for years. The trick to not getting pulled over is not being stupid. Also don't run an exhaust that screams pull me over. The RB with the right exhaust is so quit you cannot hear it. With my exhaust it has a throaty healthy six sound but guess what ? I drove by no less than 5 cops in Torrance/Gardena yesterday afternoon on tuning runs never once did they look at me.
Oh ya my exhaust is a Buddy Club Spec II with a high flow cat.

lucky7 · 10-04-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

I guess I will just wait until this install kit comes out. I fear prices for the RB will increase though....so who knows.

curious as to why you feel that prices for RB's will increase. there are a billions +1 more 25/20's than 26's. just wondering.

drift freaq · 10-04-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky7

curious as to why you feel that prices for RB's will increase. there are a billions +1 more 25/20's than 26's. just wondering.

one word , Popularity.
As popularity increases importers raise prices. a few years ago a RB25 clip could be had for as cheap as $1500 because most importers could not sell them. Everyone wanted a SR and no one had really publicly addressed the install. Mckinney was just showing their install kit at the National convention and it looked ugly . hahahhahhahhahha
It took a few years for people to realize that for around a 1k more difference over the SR install they could have a engine in their car that already put out 250hp stock and with a boost controller and some minor bolt ons could be pushed to 300whp on a completely stock engine. Ya you could do it with the SR but the cost of the bolts on the SR would wind up costing you the same amount to do the RB.
The reason the RB has started to get popular is because unlike a SR the RB has gobs of torque stock. Plus a very smooth revving linear torque and power band that is broad and flat . From idle to redline the engine pulls like a freight train. The SR is like a wild horse calm at the bottom with nothing there and then all of sudden bucking and pulling . I can roll down the street in 5th gear at legal speeds because of the torque and power I have . I was on the freeway yesterday and I went to shift out of 5th to another gear because it felt like it was in third. SR does not do that.

SimpleS14 · 10-04-2005, 10:28 PM

Yea, as mentioned before...I fear price increases due to popularity and eventually scarity on good motors. Heck...the new Fast and Furious movie is suppose to have a RB-powered Mustang. If this holds true, who knows what kind of price gouging were going to see.

Okay...so I'm interested in this install kit...and I will e-mail you later about it drift freq, but I have one more question....

tuning...how do you go about tuning this motor?

*NemeGuero* · 10-04-2005, 11:17 PM

use the rb ECU, don't need to tune right away

View Poll Results: RB25DET or Built KA-T?
RB25DET	63	48.46%
Built KA24DE-T	61	46.92%
Other (make a post about it)	6	4.62%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2005, 11:51 PM	#45
TheSnail Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Marietta Georgia Age: 39 Posts: 2,434 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The run down of what driftfreaq is saying is: HP is addictive, There is no such thing as enough. While there may be a difference in initial costs, down the road hp for the 25 will be pennies to the dollar. My old boss was like some of you guys. Kept telling me "Why would you get a rb25 when you can build a sr with more hp for the same price as a stock 25" and my response was always "Then what". __________________

10-04-2005, 04:05 PM	#54
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	guys, the install kit is out for the S13 and being tested on a S14 sometime in the next month. email me for more info [email protected] P.S. We just have not done an official product announcement of the install kit as of yet. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

10-04-2005, 09:36 PM	#56
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	Face it , if your going to go KA turbo the cop is going to see. They are no longer that ignorant. If your that scared about getting pulled over and losing it, you should not be doing anything performance wise. Just sell your car and buy something powerful new and legal. Fact is I live in L.A. just like you do and unless your down in Culver City or out drag racing in the San Fernando Valley or driving stupidly out in Industry you really do not have to worry. My friends and I have driven modded engine cars here for years. The trick to not getting pulled over is not being stupid. Also don't run an exhaust that screams pull me over. The RB with the right exhaust is so quit you cannot hear it. With my exhaust it has a throaty healthy six sound but guess what ? I drove by no less than 5 cops in Torrance/Gardena yesterday afternoon on tuning runs never once did they look at me. Oh ya my exhaust is a Buddy Club Spec II with a high flow cat. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

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09-30-2005, 12:13 AM	#31
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 36 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I know what I know and when I don't know I don't act like I do.. hahaha yah.. i originally wanted to go RB so I researched it alot.. I would love to have one but it seemed a little out of my price range and 2 years ago parts weren't so available to me for the RB as they are now, so KA was my choice and turbo fell into my lap. I'll keep you posted on my build and give you a build-cost tally you may be right.. I sometimes get overzealous on finishing deadlines and costs.. we shall see and dude.. I'd love to ride in your RB someday..

09-30-2005, 12:24 AM	#32
MaD1337M3DRiV3r Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles (818) Posts: 303 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MaD1337M3DRiV3r Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Personally i think the RB isnt worth a crap, it weighs more than a small block chevy. The KA is great if you do your own work and know what you are doing. I say forget both of them.. get this: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...99&prmenbr=361 or you could just get a junkyard 350 sbc and make way more power for less

09-30-2005, 01:10 AM	#35
ALTRNTV Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western Conference Posts: 9,429 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Nice comeback. The topic asked for KA-T or RB25, not any of the engines you posted.

09-30-2005, 01:24 AM	#37
ALTRNTV Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western Conference Posts: 9,429 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	PWNED. You don't really think he's gonna go with an LS7 do you. He's already made his mind and went with a KA-T. Inline 6 turbo > junkyard 350 sbc (as you said). I'd go with an RB25DET myself. KA-T's are great and all, but you get 2 more liters and the torque and powerband is greater with the I6.

09-30-2005, 02:27 AM	#39
ALTRNTV Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western Conference Posts: 9,429 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Woops. Got me there. I meant 2 more cylinders, not liters. Haha I've ridden in my friends 300rwhp SOHC KA-T and boy did that puppy pull, HARD. A week after that, my long time friend Jon visits me with a surprise under his hood. RB20DET. He showed me his dyno sheet and it was 305rwhp and something like 320tq @12psi, or close to that. He took me for a drive. RB hands down. Mind you that his was an RB20, I've yet to feel how an RB25 feels like. I'm waiting for my friend to finish his RB25 install.

09-30-2005, 07:24 AM	#40
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	drift freaq - When you say "RB"...you mean "RB25DET" right? Because I drove a RB20DET...but I think that's different...or am I wrong? I was browsing some Skyline forums and I read or skimpped over threads where guys blow piston rings on the RB25 when they crank up the boost. Why is this?...does the drivetrain layout have something to do with it? (longer driveshaft = more work) How much can the RB25 handle on stock internals?

10-01-2005, 05:09 PM	#43
vinhisbored Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,359 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	Back on topic, I say the built KA-T, just because 'to me' it's more affordable, and it's going to be in my daily driver, I don't have the time, money, and I need it to get around. [Well, speaking with a basic turbo kit first, then working up to having it built.] My friend is going through a RB25 swap as we speak, and he's spent alot.. I think in the end, around 9k, but then that's with 'custom fabrication' done, but very clean work.

10-02-2005, 02:11 AM	#47
vinhisbored Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,359 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	Yes, I did read the first outline, and I understand completely where you are coming from, there's power, and the internals are pretty fine for a while. In the beginning, I was also planning about the whole RB25 thing (like exactly a year ago) but then after researching about how much money I'd have to come up with, that just died. For now, when I get my basic turbo kit running, I hope to be sufficient until I can slowly work my way up. It'll be fun either way.. and who knows.. maybe the second project will be RB25 and up..

10-02-2005, 03:48 AM	#48
240SeXy! BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: CA, SoCal! Posts: 374 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I laugh becouse I got a complete front clip for 1,000 bucks.. and yes it will be better than sr's and wastefull Ls1-7. For this price, how could i not buy it, When i start putting it in my s14 ill keep you guys updated.. :P cheerz

10-02-2005, 01:01 PM	#50
vinhisbored Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,359 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	Where did you get one for $1000? I want one now . Someone go buy my KA-T KIT! Haha!

10-02-2005, 09:29 PM	#52
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I guess I will just wait until this install kit comes out. I fear prices for the RB will increase though....so who knows.

10-04-2005, 07:30 PM	#55
kouki_s14 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,550 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i am also considering both options as of now and ka-t is winning for one main reason i would LOVE to have the RB in my car, but im in so cali and i get scared that a cop will pull me over and will ask me to pop my hood, im not sure what will happen, but the chance of it getting towed away is there and i dont want to risk spending all that money on the RB and get it taken away. yes turbo KA is also illegal but it's a lot less eye catching, maybe i can hide the turbo with a heat shield or something. theres nothing that can hide a huge 6 banger if anyone has ideas of how to help me get through that then please inform all of us, im sure there are a lot of people on the forums that would like to know, otherwise i think i may just have to stick with the KA

10-04-2005, 10:28 PM	#59
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yea, as mentioned before...I fear price increases due to popularity and eventually scarity on good motors. Heck...the new Fast and Furious movie is suppose to have a RB-powered Mustang. If this holds true, who knows what kind of price gouging were going to see. Okay...so I'm interested in this install kit...and I will e-mail you later about it drift freq, but I have one more question.... tuning...how do you go about tuning this motor?

10-04-2005, 11:17 PM	#60
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 36 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	use the rb ECU, don't need to tune right away