Brian

I'm pretty sure RJF could not possibly care any less about what anybody else here thinks of him and his opinions.



keep on keepin on

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MurkyRiversS13

This is truth

Matej

As long as the dictator is a great and smart guy, I would have no problem with a dictatorship.

I think leaders should be chosen through a process of rigorous tests on every subject imaginable, such as IQ, problem solving, critical thinking, world issues, speech, presence & likeability, care for fellow human beings, economic knowledge, sound judgment, future planning, common sense, etc.
Voting is dumb because voters are dumb.

MurkyRiversS13

No single person should rule millions.

Matej

What about Mr. Jesus?

There were kings and rulers throughout history who brought about great progress and whom people loved.
Granted they were more scarce than mediocre and bad rulers, but they did exist.

kingkilburn

Rome seemed to do well enough with dictators. Near absolute power for ten years and then you can never rule again. The problems didn't start until the stupid voters made a dictator an emperor and the title was passed down through heredity.

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MurkyRiversS13

Lol. I'm sure both you and I know Jesus never ruled anyone. What he did is a debate for another thread.

London's were hundreds of thousands and smaller than the state of California and were more likely the size of Rhode island. Easier to rule smaller communities like that. Not a whole damn country with millions if people.

This is my opinion of course.

kingkilburn

Worked great for France until they got a run a stupid kings.

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HalveBlue

Ah, yes, the benevolent dictator...



Thank you, Uncle Joe!

HellaFlushSRs13

Yeah but you are also forgetting this worked because:
1) subjected ppl to their rule
2) only a small pecentage of people under roman hegemony were actually citizens
3) kept their "subjects" happy by raping and pillaging the neighbors who were not "Romans", and then outsourcing their problems to those non Romans
4) essentially said you don't like it then well I have legions

And this is completely overlooking the fact that there were still a shit load of problems and a vast majority of the population were not happy and frequently revolted when the food ran dry

Pretty much consuls would steal from the rest of the known world and pay ppl a minimum to keep the sheeple happy. Once they were done with this they would "retire" to the senate where they would sit pretty and continue to make an inordinate amount of money off the sweat of other ppls brows, for the rest of their lives.

kingkilburn

First I'd like to say that you didn't come close to addressing Roman dictators.

Most every one in Rome was a citizen. Not all citizens had voting rights. Rome was a republic not a democracy.


Most people are subjugated in some form or another.


I don't agree at all with your third or fourth points.



I'd love to see the books you've read to so shaped your view of Rome. They were every bit as civilized and intelligent as we are if less informed. Rich men politic and the power hungry play at war and finance. I find it laughable that someone from America, a country that has been to the brink of collapse more than once, can even attempt to throw a 2000 year spanning civilization under the bus. Clearly they got things wrong but you have to know they were doing something right to have changed to world for the better as they did and last 2 millenia.

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HellaFlushSRs13

Dude I've taken classes on this stuff when I was at UCSC... The book was the thousand years of Rome and I'm blankin on the professors name but he was also on the faculty at stanford so I think he knows what he's talking about.

Didn't talk about the dictators because what you were talking about were not the emperors they were the consuls, the consuls were the ones in power for x years that stepped down after their term. There were two of them one to control the army and one to preside over the senate.

To say that everyone in Rome was a citizen is just downright wrong. Most people under Roman Hegemony (the touch of the roman empire and republic) were not citizens as you needed to meet certain criteria they had to be men, had to be from born under roman rule, and could not be a slave son of a slave or a freed man. Women and slaves and freedmen along with people living in newly conquered areas of Rome WERE NOT CITIZENS.

Yeah well Rome really subjugated people they conquered: took their wealth, killed off anyone they thought would pose a threat (leaders etc), and enslaved a sizable amount of the population, not to mention the rest were now subjugated to being second class "citizens" in Rome meaning they had no rules got taxed out the ass and so on.

You don't agree with the third and fourth points... Uhh well you obviously don't know he first thing about roman society and their republic because it was after they created a standing army and not just a militia that they began to take over a significant amount of land and become the powerhouse they were not just a simple city state. How do you thing they did this simply walk in and people gave them all their wealth and goods? No they took it by force.

All I have to say from the final paragraph is wowwwwww...
- they were as civilized and intelligent as us? Dude they had slaves and treated everyone that wasn't a white man of wealth like a piece of shit. Maybe the ruling class was intelligent but the average run of the mill person was illiterate, the senate had an orator whos job it was to read the news and newly decreed laws to the mob because they themselves couldnt read it
- a 2000 year civilization? Really? Where are you getting your facts? Rome from the very conception up until the collapse was 1000 years. I'm talking from the birth of the republic all the way to when they got destroyed by the barbarians In he 5th century was only about 1000 years.
- they were in power for so long because they ruled by force. Also the "republic you speak of was only about 500 yeas long or so for the rest of that time they were an empire and before that a kingdom.
- they did it right? They had a lot of problems because they had a vast empire at a time when travel was very limited they constantly had issues with food shortages being attacked by barbarians not to mention they had continuous issues in Rome itself with sanitation, plague, poverty, hunger, not to mention the politicians were always fighting both verball and physically with one another over power.

Seriously man I studied this shit for 2 quarters if you really want I'll dig up my notes but you sir may wanna double check ur Wikipedia sources before making such bold allegations about Rome being such a wonderful place where everyone were equals and loved each other

redline racer510

^^^^ Your probably right, but watching Kilburn's debating skills and use of facts and word manipulation on some of these threads, he is probably going to find some way of making you look like an ass, this guy is persistent.

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HellaFlushSRs13

Lol... Oh well Im not trying to attack or aggravate merely trying to educate... I rarely get into these types of debates it just seemed like he was tellin me I had my head up my ass which is not the case

kingkilburn

Fucking love zilvia. lol No one ever takes a comment at face value.

I'll say two things and leave it at that or this will be another endless debate.

You are making a lot of moral judgments that right or wrong don't really matter to the discussion. It doesn't matter that you disapprove of their methods, they worked and kept on working for a very long time.*


When I think of the Roman civilization I don't follow the generally excepted view that the fall of the western empire was the end. The eastern empire went on far after Rome fell and was every bit as Roman.


*I don't really agree with their methods either. If our government wanted it could dominate much of the world through force but I wouldn't be the least bit happy with that.

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kingkilburn

None of this is even on the topic. lol

I made a tongue in cheek comment about a ridiculous thread and this is where it ends up.

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BustedS13

If you think either major party has your best interests in mind, you're a dipshit

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BDR

This is country is run by the corporations and the congressmen they contribute to in return for favorable laws. You are just allowed to have a small piece of the pie every so oftem to keep you quiet. Freedom is now a fake ideaology brought to you by the Internet.

Mikey213

...really? you're allowed a piece of pie? If you're cool enough you might get a cake. Most people who are unemployed are jobless because they're not cool enough.