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Old 04-25-2014, 09:17 AM   #6331
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Quote:
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One of the best pics I've found of the S13 rear wisefab kit, from Nigel Colfers page:

The articulation on those LCA heim joints doeeeeeeee
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:29 AM   #6332
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That thing looks as if it is held together by spiderwebs.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:47 AM   #6333
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Originally Posted by Matej View Post
That thing looks as if it is held together by spiderwebs.

It's crazy right? I haven't heard of any failures on the TONS of cars that are currently equipped with the kit in professional series.

I guess that's what a good FEA analysis gets you.
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Old 04-27-2014, 07:08 AM   #6334
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Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
It's crazy right? I haven't heard of any failures on the TONS of cars that are currently equipped with the kit in professional series.

I guess that's what a good FEA analysis gets you.
Cannot tell if this is sarcasm. For all I know it may be tougher than Bilbo's mithril-coat.
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Old 04-27-2014, 07:28 AM   #6335
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This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification t...

Hahah sorry, I was not being sarcastic. I have not heard of any failures to date.

The cars that I know have the kit:

Jack Shannahan
Nigel Colfer
Juha Rintanen (S14 test car)
Odi Bachkis
Kalashnikov
James Deane
Kenneth Moen
Dmitry Illyuk (original test car)
Christer Halvorsen
Max Tvardovskiy
Alex Golovnya

I'm sure there are more.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:21 PM   #6336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
Hahah sorry, I was not being sarcastic. I have not heard of any failures to date.

The cars that I know have the kit:

Jack Shannahan
Nigel Colfer
Juha Rintanen (S14 test car)
Odi Bachkis
Kalashnikov
James Deane
Kenneth Moen
Dmitry Illyuk (original test car)
Christer Halvorsen
Max Tvardovskiy
Alex Golovnya

I'm sure there are more.
Joon Maeng, bent it to crap in LB though
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:09 PM   #6337
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Tuerck has it on his FRS if that matters. Also Forrest Wang switched from PBM front kit to a Wisefab front kit on his FD S14. Can't find the pic of the setup at the moment but I was it on facebook earlier today.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:28 PM   #6338
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Motary isn't messing around.

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Old 05-06-2014, 11:53 AM   #6339
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thanks to the Genius who started that thread with tie rod lenghts on first page
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:21 PM   #6340
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Whats an ideal ackerman for drifting? right now I'm making a set of spindles for my weekend track day car and they are tacked up at 46degrees in and 38 out. I keep hearing that you want none for drifting. can anyone chime in?
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:24 PM   #6341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purestock240 View Post
Whats an ideal ackerman for drifting? right now I'm making a set of spindles for my weekend track day car and they are tacked up at 46degrees in and 38 out. I keep hearing that you want none for drifting. can anyone chime in?

It somewhat depends on how you like it. Some people like some ackerman because it helps self steer/steering feel a little. Others prefer zero. Most professionals are moving to zero because it allows them to maintain speed better.
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:32 PM   #6342
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We like 5-7 to make snappier transitions

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Old 05-06-2014, 03:33 PM   #6343
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Which I feel is more fun and looks better.

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Old 05-06-2014, 07:17 PM   #6344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
It somewhat depends on how you like it. Some people like some ackerman because it helps self steer/steering feel a little. Others prefer zero. Most professionals are moving to zero because it allows them to maintain speed better.
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We like 5-7 to make snappier transitions

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thanks for the responses, I was having a hard time picturing in my head how ackerman would affect a car thats countersteering.

I tacked up my left side and now have 52 degrees turning left and 44 turning right, I'm going to tweak it and try to get 50 and 45 as I'm pretty close to rubbing and don't want to get the balljoint-tierod end-steering rack too close to straight. what do you think about those angles? its not a competitive car, I just want to have fun at track days. those angles are measured off of straight and with the rack centered there is zero toe.

when you say 5-7 degrees ackerman, thats just the different side to side right. so say 53 out and 46 in would be 7 degrees of ackerman? all I can find online is diagrams of how ackerman works and nothing on how its usually measured.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:02 PM   #6345
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thanks for the responses, I was having a hard time picturing in my head how ackerman would affect a car thats countersteering.
When a vehicle is counter steered and drifting around a corner, a high ackerman angle causes the trailing tire to scrub, as it is not pointed in the same direction as the leading tire. Low ackerman is beneficial in drifting because it reduces this difference and therefore, amount of tire scrub, allowing for higher speeds and reduced front tire wear.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:13 PM   #6346
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Ackerman is is usually measured and full lock. Unless your car has some toe, it will have zero ackerman when pointed straight. So our cars go 5-7 degrees at over 65 degrees of lock. So at 45 or 50 degrees lock it can be different on our cars. We just haven't taken the time with oir current set ups to fimd ackerman through out the entire steering range.

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Old 05-09-2014, 11:01 PM   #6347
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This may have been posted somewhere in this thread before, but what is the travel distance of the steering rack?
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Old 05-10-2014, 02:56 AM   #6348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matej View Post
This may have been posted somewhere in this thread before, but what is the travel distance of the steering rack?
According to FSM it is 66mm for S13, 68,5 for S14. Some S13 racks also have 68mm of travel.
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Old 05-10-2014, 07:00 AM   #6349
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Thank you. That is travel from center to side, I presume? So 132-136mm side to side.

I am adapting a manual rack which is supposed to have 127mm of travel, so I was trying to calculate if I would need knuckles just to have stock steering. Though those numbers seem pretty close.
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:50 PM   #6350
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This is from the S13 FSM
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:24 AM   #6351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
To me it looks like the car spins because you come off throttle too abruptly, transferring weight to the front, which is all kinds of soft and mushy according to your setup above.

You need tension rods and a Stealth Custom Fab tension rod brace. Those two combined with some modified FLCA with heims on the crossmember pickup points, would put your cars light years ahead of where they are now. Seriously it will blow you away with how improved the steering becomes. Even a solid SCF strut tower brace would help.
Thanks for the help. Again, I have CircuitSports tension rods, and although I know they're not the greatest, they're still rock solid and far better than the blown out stock crap that was in there before. And the control arms are brand new Dorman arms from RockAuto, so the bushings and balljoints are brand new as well.

What gets me is that the car felt ok about a year ago when I was still CA18 and just barely tucking tire on 16's. But it seemed like when I brought the car down to tuck tire that the "mystery-phantom-front-brakes-applying-themselves-while-sideways" effect started.

I think I'm gonna give the Cor-Integration setup a try. Hopefully the car will still be daily-able with the extended FLCA's, chopped knuckles, and steering rack relocated crossmember. Seems like a good bargain compared to the PBM stuff, and unless I'm missing something, I believe they have nearly identical specs (roll center correction amount, bump steer correction amount, steering angle, etc).
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:54 PM   #6352
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Cor Integration doea quality work. Cant go wrong with that.

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Old 05-11-2014, 08:51 PM   #6353
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But it seemed like when I brought the car down to tuck tire that the "mystery-phantom-front-brakes-applying-themselves-while-sideways" effect started.
Are you sure you aren't rubbing your tires on your fender wells? Because that's what it sounds like.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:42 PM   #6354
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See, that's what I thought. But although it does rub the fenders, I don't see/hear any inner wheel well rubbing going on (unless it's happening and I'm just somehow missing it). I was banking on the idea that it must be drastically improper rollcenter/ackerman/bumpsteer causing my front wheels to fight each other and essentially "brake" themselves and induce the pro-spin attitude my car has while sideways, just not sure why it would be only in slower drifts like in the videos I posted on the last page.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:58 PM   #6355
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Originally Posted by cbh148 View Post
See, that's what I thought. But although it does rub the fenders, I don't see/hear any inner wheel well rubbing going on (unless it's happening and I'm just somehow missing it). I was banking on the idea that it must be drastically improper rollcenter/ackerman/bumpsteer causing my front wheels to fight each other and essentially "brake" themselves and induce the pro-spin attitude my car has while sideways, just not sure why it would be only in slower drifts like in the videos I posted on the last page.

Seriously, this same thing would happen to me before I got a tension rod brace. Not sure on the cause, but that cured it for me.

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On a another note, I apologize for not updating the original page with all the latest and greatest, my car and job have been consuming my life lately. I'll try and get after it this weekend.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:22 AM   #6356
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See, that's what I thought. But although it does rub the fenders, I don't see/hear any inner wheel well rubbing going on (unless it's happening and I'm just somehow missing it). I was banking on the idea that it must be drastically improper rollcenter/ackerman/bumpsteer causing my front wheels to fight each other and essentially "brake" themselves and induce the pro-spin attitude my car has while sideways, just not sure why it would be only in slower drifts like in the videos I posted on the last page.

Ackerman?

That's certainly a possibility...
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:52 PM   #6357
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Anyone on here runs 0 ackerman and about 8 degrees of caster and about 8 of camber? I've heard good things about this setup, I guess i just have to try it out.

I want more feel out of steering, I know i chose the wrong car, but Im trying to improve the feel and make snappy transitions, and have max contact at near full lock.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:53 AM   #6358
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This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification t...

8 degrees of camber sounds horrible. S-chassis have tons of steering feel? 8 degrees of caster certainly isn't going to give you contact patch at lock.

To me it sounds like a band aid setup.

You've really gotta figure out what you want out of the car/what you want your style to be. Stockish angle 2003 style sliding, big entry snappy transitions (with not much front grip), or modern high-angle high-grip sliding. Then choose your front setup from there. Trying to compromise too much just leads to an understeering pig that's hard to control.

That's my 3.5 cents anyway.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:24 PM   #6359
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Quote:
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Anyone on here runs 0 ackerman and about 8 degrees of caster and about 8 of camber? I've heard good things about this setup, I guess i just have to try it out.

I want more feel out of steering, I know i chose the wrong car, but Im trying to improve the feel and make snappy transitions, and have max contact at near full lock.
try 9 degrees of caster
5.5 to 6 degrees camber
play with spacers to get your scrub slightly positive and you should be good. you may have issues with your scrub being incorrect. it can slow transitions and give less feedback
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:01 PM   #6360
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I would think that with a 0 Ackerman setup, you should be trying to take advantage of the fact that the trailing wheel is not scrubbing at full lock and maximize it's contact patch. I've found that -4* camber is the sweet spot, flat contact patch on the leading tire without being excessive. Combine this with a factory caster setting (5* ?), as I've always found that level of caster to provide good self-steer/centering.

Mind you, I do have some ackerman with my knuckles, so I have not tried to dial out camber and caster, as doing so would increase the trailing tire contact patch and therfore scrub.
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