S13 SR20DET Oil Pressure too high (120psi) - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Tom N · 12-11-2013, 04:14 PM

There should be a pressure relief valve. The spring is probably sticking. Take it apart and clean it. This is very easy to do and common on a 4g63. You may even be able to port the relief valve opening some.

As for engine oil weight. This only applies to people making power with their motor. If yours is sitting 300hp or less dont bother reading the rest.

The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your ass out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. GF-4 classification oil is NOT racing oil, GF-4 is emissions priority oil that basically has all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid damaging catalytic converters and reduce tailpipe emissions. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use 10w-30 – you may remove the sticker at this time and stop believing that what was good for your 250bhp motor is still good for your 400bhp motor, it is not.
Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself.
- Robert FP

hobbs · 12-11-2013, 04:22 PM

I've personally had four prosport oil pressure gauge sensors go out on me, not to mention a boost sensor and three melted gauge casings but that's another story...

How do you have the pressure sensor mounted/installed?

jamg · 12-11-2013, 04:32 PM

Why dont you install an oil cooler if you're worried about the temps.

DriftDamage · 12-11-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z28ricer

It really depends on whats causing it and where the increased pressure is, in relation to where the gauge sender is, your turbo could be seeing the full pressure and possibly be damaged, or if there is something stopping a passage between the sending unit and the turbo, or bearings you may damage components downstream of the sending unit.

Honestly I wouldn't do a bit of speculating, or worrying, or driving, until another pressure gauge has been installed to determine whether there is an actual oil pressure issue, or just a gauge issue.

Gauge sender is installed on a sandwich plate where the oil filter goes. Working on locating a mechanical gauge or means to check actual pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

My first guess is the pressure relief valve sticking. Oil pressure doesn't just go up because of a cold front... Once warm it should drop back to "normal pressures". However, I do not know what the factory SR pressure relief valve is suppose to pop off at, so that doesn't help much other than pointing you in a direction.

Do you know if there's any chance that pressure relief valve/spring could be checked without having to take off the oil pump? I know where it's at but it doesn't seem accessible without doing so.

DriftDamage · 12-11-2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N

There should be a pressure relief valve. The spring is probably sticking. Take it apart and clean it. This is very easy to do and common on a 4g63. You may even be able to port the relief valve opening some.

It is possible this is the case since the jump was sudden from one day to the next. However I'm not sure it's accessible on the SR without taking off the whole oil pump case/assembly cover. I'm trying to look into this right now actually.

My engine is def not 300+ but the rest of what you wrote is good to know since my goal this year is 400+

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbs

I've personally had four prosport oil pressure gauge sensors go out on me, not to mention a boost sensor and three melted gauge casings but that's another story...

How do you have the pressure sensor mounted/installed?

It is mounted on the oil filter sandwich plate Prosport sells. If you've had this many go out on you then I definitely need to consider saving for better guages. I've already had a few issues with mine but it's mainly with the small connections on the back of the gauges being so cheap without any clipping tabs to hold them in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamg

Why dont you install an oil cooler if you're worried about the temps.

Larger oil pan and oil cooler are on my list to do this year. My choice in oil also comes from the shop which built my engine. I'm simply sticking to their recommendation and generally have no problem letting my car warm up to operating oil temps before driving or abusing it.

mechanicalmoron · 12-11-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N

There should be a pressure relief valve. The spring is probably sticking. Take it apart and clean it. This is very easy to do and common on a 4g63. You may even be able to port the relief valve opening some.

As for engine oil weight. This only applies to people making power with their motor. If yours is sitting 300hp or less dont bother reading the rest.

The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your ass out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. GF-4 classification oil is NOT racing oil, GF-4 is emissions priority oil that basically has all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid damaging catalytic converters and reduce tailpipe emissions. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use 10w-30 – you may remove the sticker at this time and stop believing that what was good for your 250bhp motor is still good for your 400bhp motor, it is not.
Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself.
- Robert FP

20w50 is not a race oil, the hot and cold weights are nearly as far apart as ANY oil made.

Feel free to disregard this, you surely will - it's fine to be an oil snob, but 20w50 is not inherently race oil, it's very likely NOT at all. That's why they have strait 30, 40, 50.... they are more stable, predictable, hold up to higher tempertures better, their shear and other properties are more uniform, etc etc etc.

Also, simply how much power you make does not NECESSARILY say a goddamn thing about what weight you should use, that depends on engine design, and clearances. (obviously until you're at the power level where where you adjust the clearances to match the oil, instead of vice versa)

Tom N · 12-11-2013, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

20w50 is not a race oil, the hot and cold weights are nearly as far apart as ANY oil made.

Feel free to disregard this, you surely will - it's fine to be an oil snob, but 20w50 is not inherently race oil, it's very likely NOT at all. That's why they have strait 30, 40, 50.... they are more stable, predictable, hold up to higher tempertures better, their shear and other properties are more uniform, etc etc etc.

Also, simply how much power you make does not NECESSARILY say a goddamn thing about what weight you should use, that depends on engine design, and clearances. (obviously until you're at the power level where where you adjust the clearances to match the oil, instead of vice versa)

I did not say 20w50 weight made a oil a race oil. Just like your stock SR long block is not technically a race engine, but when you start making 100hp a cylinder you can stop treating it like a regular stock engine at stock hp levels. And oil is you protection against engine and turbo failure. I would recommend Brad Penn high zinc to anyone running a high hp turbo engine.

Z28ricer · 12-11-2013, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N

I did not say 20w50 weight made a oil a race oil. Just like your stock SR long block is not technically a race engine, but when you start making 100hp a cylinder you can stop treating it like a regular stock engine at stock hp levels. And oil is you protection against engine and turbo failure. I would recommend Brad Penn high zinc to anyone running a high hp turbo engine.

This, or something else like a ZDDP additive, except for anyone running an SR/RB/KA / whatever, and no cat.

They are in the same boat as old flat tappet lifter engines, except its up top with the cam + rocker or cam+bucket metal on metal interaction

Mobil1 15-50, Mobil1 Turbodiesel Truck 5-40, are both also great choices here.

jr_ss · 12-11-2013, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftDamage

Do you know if there's any chance that pressure relief valve/spring could be checked without having to take off the oil pump? I know where it's at but it doesn't seem accessible without doing so.

As far as I know, no. I don't have a diagram in front of me or an FSM accessible, so I can't help any further at this point. If it hasn't been resolved and you don't get a chance to pull the pump apart, I'll get back with you this weekend.

I would however pull the tap for the sensor off and check for any debris that may be causing a blockage, which could cause part of the problem. Next best thing to do is rule out that your gauge is faulty by throwing a mech gauge on it. This will confirm that your sending unit is either good or bad and to verify that your gauge is reading is correctly, but this has been stated already.

Mikester · 12-12-2013, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N

There should be a pressure relief valve. The spring is probably sticking. Take it apart and clean it. This is very easy to do and common on a 4g63. You may even be able to port the relief valve opening some.

The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your ass out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use 10w-30 – you may remove the sticker at this time and stop believing that what was good for your 250bhp motor is still good for your 400bhp motor, it is not.
Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself.
- Robert FP

Tom, Glenn, or anyone else who can be informative and present their points without being an asshole please chime in...

Tom N- As you know we have very similar setups so I hope you of all can at least follow my logic (or lack thereof). I'm not sure how making 100hp per cylinder makes an SR a race motor, unless it's raced and never daily driven... which I fully understand would drive completely different oiling requirements.

A built motor with OEM bearings, valves, seals etc at OEM bore, stroke & clearances seems to me that out of boost in normal DD conditions; the oil requirements/pressures would generally be the same as they were when the engine was completely stock. Although the rpms may see 8000+ once every great while; my uneducated understanding tells me that preventative measures (thermostatic oil cooling, large oil pan, fully upgraded cooling system & solid tune) would allow anyone to drive a car of this caliber all week... and tear it up all weekend without putting the the engine in any major jeopardy; so long as the oil is changed at a frequency commensurate with the amount of abuse, and the upgraded fluid cooling systems are functioning properly enough to keep the oil/coolant temps/pressures near stock levels. Kind of a lot of words, but this in a nutshell is why I am not yet convinced that using 10W/30 or maybe 10W/40 is 'incorrect' for locations anywhere in the temperate latitudes... regardless of 250 or 400+ hp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftDamage

It is mounted on the oil filter sandwich plate Prosport sells. If you've had this many go out on you then I definitely need to consider saving for better guages. I've already had a few issues with mine but it's mainly with the small connections on the back of the gauges being so cheap without any clipping tabs to hold them in.

Larger oil pan and oil cooler are on my list to do this year. My choice in oil also comes from the shop which built my engine. I'm simply sticking to their recommendation and generally have no problem letting my car warm up to operating oil temps before driving or abusing it.

Good- sandwich with multiple taps makes it nice to be able to view both indications depending on how they are situated...

Given that you had your motor professionally built; my feeling is that this will probably turn out to be nothing more than an indication problem. Especially since you've already had indication issues due to shitty connections to the gauge(s).

Since you drift all weekend, an oil cooler & pan are great 'investments' in addition to sourcing out better quality gauges... and you can't go wrong following the advice of your builder.

Sorry again for all the tangents. Hope you get 'er fixed~

Kingtal0n · 12-13-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z28ricer

All that rambling is cute ? For some odd reason, I think Nissan might have had good reason, beyond your speculation and spitballing, that the engine would be fine with up to 20w-50 oil in appropriate temperatures.

That is not beyond my speculation, that IS my speculation

Quote:

Lastly, I want to point out, that a 50W oil at around 220*F~ there is no issue,

Ok, I've figured this all out. I have the solution. What we all really need is, Straight 50W oil, and an oil heater to bring the oil temperature up to 220*F before we start the engine.
And an accusump to pre-prime the engine.

/solved

codyace · 12-16-2013, 06:27 PM

I can't be the only one laughing at the thought that 15w50 vs 10w30 at start up anywhere in the country is going to cause 30-40psi extra...lets be freakin serious guys, these are 20 year old Nissan engines that they put into a zillion cars. You think for everyday owners with Sentra's that they always got the proper OEM oil? Heck I bet half of the owners don't even know what oil is in there car lol.

I'd also love to see anyone that can show me without a shadow of a doubt that not going to a lighter oil in winter caused pre mature failure of something either. Not letting a car warm up and beating on it? Sure...but warming the car up and driving like a human? I'd love to see.

As said countless times here, check the sending unit, or the gauge. You can go to Autozone or Advance or whatever, buy a 15 dollar mechanical gauge, then then screw that into the same place you already have your existing gauge sender (assuming you also already have the BSPT to NPT adapter in the OE housing if you are using that). Just run the gauge out the bottom of the car, turn it on, bleed it quick, and then see what it tells you (you can also run it out the engine bay hood/tape it to the cowling if you wanna watch as you drive, it's only temporary. Sure it may not be the most accurate gauge within 5psi or what not of a quality gauge, but you'll at least get a good general idea.

(Plus, now you've got a great diagnostic tool you can use on a variety of different engines with gauge issues)

12-11-2013, 04:14 PM	#31
Tom N Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: SW Florida Posts: 746 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	There should be a pressure relief valve. The spring is probably sticking. Take it apart and clean it. This is very easy to do and common on a 4g63. You may even be able to port the relief valve opening some. As for engine oil weight. This only applies to people making power with their motor. If yours is sitting 300hp or less dont bother reading the rest. The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your ass out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. GF-4 classification oil is NOT racing oil, GF-4 is emissions priority oil that basically has all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid damaging catalytic converters and reduce tailpipe emissions. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use 10w-30 – you may remove the sticker at this time and stop believing that what was good for your 250bhp motor is still good for your 400bhp motor, it is not. Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself. - Robert FP __________________ 98 240sx w/ S15 SR20DET, T2 20g, 11.22 @ 124.98

12-16-2013, 06:27 PM	#42
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	I can't be the only one laughing at the thought that 15w50 vs 10w30 at start up anywhere in the country is going to cause 30-40psi extra...lets be freakin serious guys, these are 20 year old Nissan engines that they put into a zillion cars. You think for everyday owners with Sentra's that they always got the proper OEM oil? Heck I bet half of the owners don't even know what oil is in there car lol. I'd also love to see anyone that can show me without a shadow of a doubt that not going to a lighter oil in winter caused pre mature failure of something either. Not letting a car warm up and beating on it? Sure...but warming the car up and driving like a human? I'd love to see. As said countless times here, check the sending unit, or the gauge. You can go to Autozone or Advance or whatever, buy a 15 dollar mechanical gauge, then then screw that into the same place you already have your existing gauge sender (assuming you also already have the BSPT to NPT adapter in the OE housing if you are using that). Just run the gauge out the bottom of the car, turn it on, bleed it quick, and then see what it tells you (you can also run it out the engine bay hood/tape it to the cowling if you wanna watch as you drive, it's only temporary. Sure it may not be the most accurate gauge within 5psi or what not of a quality gauge, but you'll at least get a good general idea. (Plus, now you've got a great diagnostic tool you can use on a variety of different engines with gauge issues) __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

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12-11-2013, 04:22 PM	#32
hobbs Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Under a rock Posts: 2,263 Trader Rating: (43) Feedback Score: 43 reviews	I've personally had four prosport oil pressure gauge sensors go out on me, not to mention a boost sensor and three melted gauge casings but that's another story... How do you have the pressure sensor mounted/installed?

12-11-2013, 04:32 PM	#33
jamg Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2009 Location: GA Posts: 2,106 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Why dont you install an oil cooler if you're worried about the temps.