dorkidori_s13

no thanks, want manual from factory... tired of "race car". want twin turbo with manual tranny stock, none of this "cut it up and make it work" bs.

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simmode1

Dafuq... there are quite a few...
FRS
Miata
370Z
Genesis (RIP)
Mustang
Camaro
Challenger
2 series

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d9m13n

You have a point, but most of the cars on that list carry price tags of over $30k, which I wouldnt call cheap. 370z starts over 30k, you cant get a v8 stang for under 30k msrp, camaro you cant even get a v6 under 30k, challenger r/t starts at 31k, and the base 2 series is 32k. I meant more price ranges around the frs and miata, mid 20s is affordable since most people who want a cheap tuner car new wont have much more to spend than that, if they can even muster that much. And yes you can make the argument that the muscle cars come with smaller engines for less, but do you really want a 4 banger under the hood of your camaro or mustang?

dorkidori_s13

just a small heads up... this is the break down of cost on a 1991 240sx compared to what it would be today...

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d9m13n

exactly, and a new gt86 with a manual is just a hair over $25k msrp.

[240sx]

^ THIS. Car enthusiasts are delusional.

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dizzariot

Sounds like a certain chassis you and I used to own.


Toyota is fucking up with the lack of motor updates. If the sales are 'suffering' it's not due to the FRS being shitty...it's due to the manufacturer giving us light-up badges and shitty aero and calling it 'all-new'.

People love to bring up the fact that Scion is dead and then go on to say the FRS couldn't save Scion. Uhhh last time I checked they had 7 cars in the Scion lineup and only two (FRS/XB) were worth a shit. How the fuck are you gonna hang Scion's demise on the fucking ZN6? Bunch of morons.

...soooooo are you just posting hear to read your own comments? The hypocrisy is strong in these two comments. Not trying to be too much of an asshole. Just saying.


As someone that owned an FRS and is constantly dealing with the maintenance required on a 2005 Forester and a '93 S13 I can honestly say that selling the FRS was a mistake. I'm leaving for Japan TOMORROW and I STILL want to bring an FRS with me to Japan. Best option for guys like us: low entry cost (used) and a healthy aftermarket lineup. The motor is 'meh' but the car is a blast in the curves. If you honestly need more just buy a turbo kit. I'm actually getting pretty sick of dudes talking out of their ass about the ZN6 when they've never owned one or put it through some mountain roads.

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dorkidori_s13

needs more power... end of story! there is NO excuse not to offer a turbo model in either FRS or BRZ, PERIOD!!!! i dont need to drive one to know this... i understand basic business principles. if there is demand for something, FUCKING BUILD IT!

case in point, Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro. 3 motor options for EACH car... all 3 cars are doing just fine and have a demographic theyre sold to!

the Japanese manufacturers have their heads up their asses and their cars now just SUCK! there, i said it!

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Encore

Good point. As much hate as the Genesis gets, it did (at one point) come with two different motor options. I don't understand why more manufactures don't do that as well.

dorkidori_s13

i quite like the genny coupe. would love a first gen 4 cylinder.

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racepar1

I'm with Ron, just another "240sx successor thread", move along...

Encore

Got the 2nd gen 4 cylinder, and I love it. Every bit as fun as my s14.

AllThingsGravy

We getting left behind boys

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PoorMans180SX

They did that about 15 years ago, it's called the SR20VE.

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LockOn!

Hay, I read in latest Car & Driver that the new BRZ is a total drift-MACHINE and

get this you guys

and

AND

it gets

wait for it

it gets

FIVE WHOLE MORE HORSE POWERS

that's right! not one! not two! but

5 all entirely new for 2017, horse units.

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dorkidori_s13

lol

horse units... gonna have to borrow that one LMAO!!!!!!!!

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AllThingsGravy

How much to the price tag!!!!!!??

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stev0n

I was in Detroit in January 2014 at the International Auto Show for the unveiling of both of these & the sport sedan concept aka new maxima. I did an interview with Pete Brock for nico & nissan sport magazine about the IDx.

IMO if that was going to be the new silvia, then I'm glad the project was scrapped. the presentation was awesome but the product was kinda lackluster.

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Grimace

I HIGHLY doubt Nissan could make an "s16" with out fucking it all up. The only thing Nissan has going for it right now is the Z or the GT-R. (not including infiniti). The new cars are meh, And im sick of them slapping nismo on cars that have no reason to be associated with performance/motorsport, *Cough juke cough*.

As for other affordable RWD sports coupes, Sure the FRS/BRZ is a fun car. Used market is coming down, and its nice to own something newer. But, IF you really didn't need the rear seats, You're stupid to not buy an S2000. The Z market is coming down which has its good and bad points. Good, You can get a Z for under 10k. Bad, Well now its going to get the 240 aids and every kid is going to get a Z because hoondrift lyfe yo.

AllThingsGravy

I agree but you think they will keep making the Zs all the way until 2020 just making small upgrades and differences here and there? They will probably release another sports car eventually just hopefully they don't mess it up.

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driftsucky

Turbo Mustangs under 30k. They exist. And they turn. Just sayin

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SupaDoopa

So, what you're saying is you want a car that's on the higher price spectrum for most people to get even more expensive with a turbo, some cool engine tuning, bigger brakes and other shit? Sorry, but if you think that's going to help, you're wrong. The car for most is a toy for the most part. It isn't practical in most cases. It's for kids who's parents will buy them whatever cool car they want or balding men in their early 40's that cruise by the local high school when they get out for the day with tinted windows hoping a teenie bopper winks at him because he's never had that as a kid and it fills some awkward, creepy fantasy of his.

Something like that is going to be a hair under $40,000 all night and day and you know range you're walking into? 1M, EVO X, STi, etc. If I were about to spent in the neighborhood of that, I sure as shit wouldn't spend it on a RELEASE SERIES 1923.0 FR-S GT v2 Type-F.

And how are you going to say they NEED to release a turbo version? Have you driven one extensively? Do you have seat time to back this up? Most people aren't buying them to slide. They're buying them to cruise in a reliable car [hopefully] with a good warranty but also looks pretty cool but also is reasonable on insurance. You can't look at everything with the enthusiasts mindset because that's not why they build what they build. They build what they think will sell in large numbers and fill their pockets.

Not only that, but they have all this EPA shit they need to conform to. You can't just slap a turbo on something and make a million horsepower and expect the dudes who wear hemp socks to be okay with it. There are a ton of variables you're dismissing for a thirst of another 40-50 horse power.

Just saying.

dudermagee

Pretty sure they could literally use the STI long block of the same generation for like 5-6K more.

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AllThingsGravy

I'm crying lmaooo

SupaDoopa

Again, pushing the price closer to the $35,000 range. Try justifying a RWD turbo Scion for $35,000. You can't. You never will. People will spend the few extra bucks and get something much, much cooler.

spooled240

The ecoboost mustang which has a little over 300hp starts at 25k while the FR-S starts at around 26K, so it is possible for a car manufacturer to develop a RWD turbo car in the mid 20's. I feel like FR-S should be in the low 20's and Toyota/Subaru could have easily dropped in a slightly detuned wrx motor(already EPA compliant), larger 2 piston brakes off another larger Toyota and a few suspension tweaks and sell the car for mid to high 20's with 230hp/200tq or something. They wouldn't have had to reinvent the wheel here as they have all the parts.

They wouldn't have had to make the car that much faster for it to have been that much more of an exciting car. I don't mind modifying cars, but I would much rather fuck around with bolt ons on an already-boosted engine and not have to do an entire engine swap and/or turbo kits/engine rebuild, etc. to make the car fast.

Grimace

The Z is a good platform, while its getting dated the 370 is a nice upgrade to the 350. I think they can get a few more years out of the chassis. Maybe we will see a cheaper Nissan version of the new infiniti coupe.

Pretty much spot on, 35k can get you a lot of car. That can get you a supercharged CTSV or C6 Z06, used of course but ill take a CPO 500whp car over a brand new 300whp any day.

SupaDoopa

Anything is 'possible,' but it's unlikely. Figure this - you can get an EVO X GSR which is arguable the best AWD-T car with enough 'cool guy' shit that will make the purchaser feeling he got a ton for his money. Then flip the script and have a BR-Z the way it is but available in a turbo trim and be the same money. Which would you get? If you said the BR-Z, you were obviously too close to a nuclear test site because you have issues. Even if the FR-S/BR-Z was $30,000 soup to nuts loaded to the gills I wouldn't even consider it. I wouldn't even buy it used because of what the skinny jeans, band t-shirt wearing high school senior who vapes in his school parking lot after hours did with it before.

Is it saying that building a stripped down, boosted, performance-loaded Scion/Toyota/Subaru isn't possible like I said previously but you have to also understand the demand. Probably 1 out of 10,000 people who buy one are saying their car sucks and they wish it had more power. Those people would have just bought something else with their money. We are enthusiasts; we think everything should be faster, cooler with more shit for less money. It's just not the way the world works. If you want something like that, you'll either have to build it yourself or keep dreaming.

Sorry for being so blunt but sometimes it's warranted.

LockOn!

I had a Z for a couple of years and while it was great for having fun, it is total garbage as serving as an actual car.

Groceries barely fit in the hatch

Can only transport two tires or wheels at a time

Single passenger


These are all things I thought I could live without but was 100% wrong. The biggest issue being transporting wheels and tires. Every time I went to a drift day, two tires in my car, then scramble to find someone to pack my other four to the track.

On top of that, having to make two trips to the tire shop to get new rubber put on, totally sucks ass.


I ended up selling and picking up another 240 hatch for this next year. 6 wheels in that thing easy, plus 4 on top if you buy a rack.


The FRS and Mustang, or aging RWD BMWs are a far better options then a Z unless you intend on trailering it and your gear to the track.

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spooled240

^I had an FD and felt the same way, except I had the reliability issues to deal with as well :P

This is already happening, except people are buying the N/A FR-Z for just a tad less than an AWD turbo car. If you bought a new BR-Z you could have had a turbo and AWD for just a bit more.

2017 BR-Z: $25,494 MSRP
2017 WRX: $26,695 MSRP

I'm still a little baffled as to why the FR-Z's are priced in this range when other cars like the WRX, ecoboost mustang, etc. for instance which would be a lot more expensive to produce are priced similarly. It's definitely not the creature comforts. These cars should be cheap, like a modern-day 240sx.