Israel Invading Palestine - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Kaifd3s · 07-22-2014, 02:05 PM

I've been watching the crisis in Gaza for awhile now. I am just amazed at the US media only portraying the Israelis as the victims.

Curious as to what are fellow Zilvian's thoughts. Proceed.

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaifd3s

I've been watching the crisis in Gaza for awhile now. I am just amazed at the US media only portraying the Israelis as the victims.

Curious as to what are fellow Zilvian's thoughts. Proceed.

10 years ago I felt bad for the Palestinians. Today? Drive them into the sea.

Also, more importantly...

Vs.

simmode1 · 07-22-2014, 02:54 PM

^^^Is that what's going on over there? I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Is that what's going on over there? I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...

Yes - Israel is greedy and wants all the land. Yes, they built settlements in areas they should not have and can be real dicks.

However, people (especially over there) stop caring when Palestinians start kidnapping and murdering teenagers, setting off bus bombs, suicide bombs, hostage takings and launching rockets and motors at civilian targets.

For the longest time the PLO, Palestine Liberation Organization was the representative force of the Palestinian movements. Yasir Arafat was the head clown and surprisingly he could never quite finalize a peace negotiation - turns out he never wanted too. He became a billionaire off the movement and his importance completely relied on distrust and animosity between Palestine and Israel.

Once he died, the Palestinians began to vote into political power members of HAMAS, the Iranian backed jihadist terrorist group. Unlike the politically driven PLO, these guys are far out Al Qaeda crazy fundamentalists. If Hamas and Al Qaeda didn't have Jews and Americans to kill, they would be killing each other as they are on different sides of the Islam coin (Catholics vs Protestants).

So for me, I see the Israelis as an extension of modern, civil western culture. They are loyal allies and are really only there because Europe tried to fucking kill them all off in the first half of the 20th century.

Matej · 07-22-2014, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simmode1

I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...

It is amazing how much money the US dumps into Israel every year for no benefit to any American citizen. Israel is quickly becoming the new Silicon Valley, all thanks to money from the US.

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It is amazing how much money the US pumps into Israel every year for no benefit to any American citizen.

What does any of the countries on the list provide us?

At least Israel is helping kill terrorists... instead make them like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraqi, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gaza, etc.

Country U.S. Total Assistance FY 2012,
Afghanistan 12,885.50M
Israel 3,100.10M
Iraq 1,940.10M
Egypt 1,404.00M
Pakistan 1,214.90M
Jordan 1,135.30M
Ethiopia 870.10M
Kenya 749.20M
Colombia 644.30M
Haiti 510.40M
West Bank/Gaza 457.40M
South Sudan 444.30M
Russia 440.90M
Somalia 419.60M
Tanzania 402.00M
Congo (Kinshasa) 388.40M
Uganda 352.40M
Nigeria 335.90M
Sudan 298.10M
South Africa 274.70M
Mozambique 274.00M
Ukraine 273.30M
Yemen 258.50 M
Bangladesh 256.80 M
Liberia 247.10M

Matej · 07-22-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

What does any of the countries on the list provide us?

Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

***S14DB*** · 07-22-2014, 04:51 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E...icot_Agreement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

I still don't know what you are talking about? Kosovo?

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Land to build military bases on.

We have bases in Kenya?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?

Doubtful, unless you mean their own country far away. They did achieve significant movements toward independence and nothing has improved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place.

We where also quick to defend Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraqs sovereignty.

It's all about the end goal. Europe feared a unified Yugoslavia post Cold War. Yugoslavia always sat in an interesting position between the US and the Soviets. With the Soviets gone, the US no longer needed Yugoslavia and was focused on the Middle East. Europe did not want another aggressive, financial broke and antagonistic military power in their midst.

Israel is a key, stable US/Western Ally in a rather unstable shit hole. Why would we not support them? Every Arab "democracy" we have supported in the last 5 years has become a US hating shit hole. Ever look at our other Arab allies, like Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Jordan? Trust me, their Governments are not eager to give sovereignty back to the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Now the US has their largest military base there.

Irrelevant. We should be putting bases in Taiwan and Poland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

I'm guessing you are pretty ignorant on Balkan history. The region has been a bloody shit hole for the past 2,000 years with Crusades, Muslim invasion, Islamic terrorism, Monarchal and Communist oppression and Nazi and Serbian Genocides...

Why again do Palestinians deserve a country? Israel has only fought a dozen plus wars for the region and had US/UN intervention not take places, they had driven everyone into the sea/surrounding countries by now.

Should we lobby to give back the South West to Mexico, Mexico to Spain, or the whole country to the "Natives"?

supersayianjim · 07-23-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

this man speaks the truth!!

drift freaq · 07-22-2014, 03:11 PM

Both sides are guilty. I know is not politically correct and I have Jewish friends but truth be told both sides are crazy as loons.

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Both sides are guilty. I know is not politically correct and I have Jewish friends but truth be told both sides are crazy as loons.

Yes but the IDF is not engaged in organize murder and terrorism. Innocent Palestinians are injured and killed, but that happens out of the military and police actions that Israel is forced to enact to stop terrorist build ups and rocket/motor attacks.

Its no different then 140,000 Iraqi Civilians killed in Iraq over the past 10 years.

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/

LEG1T · 07-22-2014, 04:16 PM

im with the Palestinians on this one.

***S14DB*** · 07-22-2014, 04:22 PM

Moved to Loud Noises.

drift freaq · 07-22-2014, 05:50 PM

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.

Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

***S14DB*** · 07-22-2014, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.

Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

TL;DR: Blame the British
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939

Even ISIS blames the British.

Should have listened to Lawrence of Arabia.

supersayianjim · 07-23-2014, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.

Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

This is bookmarked thank you sir..

inopsey · 07-23-2014, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.

Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

can you explain egypt's role in the Palestine situation?

drift freaq · 07-24-2014, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inopsey

can you explain egypt's role in the Palestine situation?

Wow, did you fail to read my post. Egypt's role started in 1947 with the declaration of not recognizing Israel as a country and going to war with them. That is one of the primary causes that started the flood of Palestinian refugee's out of Israel. I do not see Egypt accepting Palestinians today as citizens. I also see Hamas factions alive and flourishing in Egypt today and the Islamic government has no problem with it. Hamas is the main Islamic militant faction causing current hostilities between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

The detente days of Egypt died with Anwar Sadat and who was a brilliant statesmen that saw the futility of the original Egyptian position and sought real change. I might also add that though Egypt had a relatively non militant position under Hosni Muburak he actually abused and bastardized what was left by Anwar Sadat essentially destroying a lot of the achievements.
It ( Egypt, Israel and the Middle East) was closer to the real establishment of a Palestinian state and peace with Israel when Sadat was alive. It was also why he was assassinated. The hard liners in the Arab world could give a rats ass truthfully about the Palestinians . They are merely pawns in their bigger plan. The elimination of Israel as a country and the spread of their idealism.

You may not like this but is a truthful assessment of the political situation of the region (without here from

WheelWhore · 07-24-2014, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Wow, did you fail to read my post. Egypt's role started in 1947 with the declaration of not recognizing Israel as a country and going to war with them. That is one of the primary causes that started the flood of Palestinian refugee's out of Israel. I do not see Egypt accepting Palestinians today as citizens. I also see Hamas factions alive and flourishing in Egypt today and the Islamic government has no problem with it. Hamas is the main Islamic militant faction causing current hostilities between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

The detente days of Egypt died with Anwar Sadat and who was a brilliant statesmen that saw the futility of the original Egyptian position and sought real change. I might also add that though Egypt had a relatively non militant position under Hosni Muburak he actually abused and bastardized what was left by Anwar Sadat essentially destroying a lot of the achievements.
It ( Egypt, Israel and the Middle East) was closer to the real establishment of a Palestinian state and peace with Israel when Sadat was alive. It was also why he was assassinated. The hard liners in the Arab world could give a rats ass truthfully about the Palestinians . They are merely pawns in their bigger plan. The elimination of Israel as a country and the spread of their idealism.

You may not like this but is a truthful assessment of the political situation of the region (without here from

Just want to say, I could listen all day to history lessons from you.

Kudos for the well worded / resourceful responses.

Corbic · 07-22-2014, 06:16 PM

Drift Freaq basically hits the nail on the head with an excellent summarization.

Matej · 07-23-2014, 02:09 PM

So Russia keeps getting sanctioned and dragged through the mud for things that no one has any evidence they are responsible for, while here we have a full-blown one-sided war and everyone is just letting it slide.
World politics are goofy.

Corbic · 07-23-2014, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

So Russia keeps getting sanctioned and dragged through the mud for things that no one has any evidence they are responsible for, while here we have a full-blown one-sided war and everyone is just letting it slide.
World politics are goofy.

Russian is trying to reestablish the Soviet Empire by breaking apart and annexing the Ukraine.

Israel is "fighting terrorism" just like we've done in Afghanistan and Iraq for 11 years. Don't you think the Taliban and ISIS/Al Qaeda would calm down if we just give them their own country?

supersayianjim · 07-24-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Russian is trying to reestablish the Soviet Empire by breaking apart and annexing the Ukraine.

Israel is "fighting terrorism" just like we've done in Afghanistan and Iraq for 11 years. Don't you think the Taliban and ISIS/Al Qaeda would calm down if we just give them their own country?

terrorism? the Indians were considered terrorist when the whites pushed them off their land..

supersayianjim · 07-24-2014, 02:40 PM

but Israel has nukes, none else does, why doesn't the rest of the Muslim world understand that?? you can't really destroy Israel....

catch 22 is would they use one of their 150+(according to jimmy carter) nukes in such close proximity to their country??

Corbic · 07-24-2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersayianjim

but Israel has nukes, none else does, why doesn't the rest of the Muslim world understand that?? you can't really destroy Israel....

catch 22 is would they use one of their 150+(according to jimmy carter) nukes in such close proximity to their country??

Why do you think everyone in the Muslim world is trying to develop Nuclear and Chemical Weapons?

You don't see Serbia, Cuba or Venezuela making the bomb...

lewisfk · 07-24-2014, 10:35 PM

There are some valid points throughout thread, but ask yourselves if Mexico or Canada had the views as the Palestinians would you feel comfortable? Our government is full of appeasers, one side banging the drums of war and the other waving the flag of liberal bullshit. Regardless of what side we support, there must be compensation. In the form of money or support when the U.S. government wants to rage war. The Palestinians cant pay the U.S. enough, and lack the strategic bases and abilities to rage war on a large scale. So who would you support?

drift freaq · 07-25-2014, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewisfk

There are some valid points throughout thread, but ask yourselves if Mexico or Canada had the views as the Palestinians would you feel comfortable? Our government is full of appeasers, one side banging the drums of war and the other waving the flag of liberal bullshit. Regardless of what side we support, there must be compensation. In the form of money or support when the U.S. government wants to rage war. The Palestinians cant pay the U.S. enough, and lack the strategic bases and abilities to rage war on a large scale. So who would you support?

Dude wtf are you going on about. 1. The U.S. Is not and has never attacked the Palestinians. We do not owe them anything. Israel is our ally but it does not mean we tell them what to do, or owe for what they do. In fact they quite often do as they please as do several of our other allies like the French. Who I might add sell tech and weapons to countries that are pretty much hostile towards the U.S.

You really either are completely ignorant of geopolitics and mid eastern politics or you are just choosing to obtuse for the sake of argument.
What is going on right now was instigated by a kidnaping and killing of 3 Israeli teenagers by the radical Islamic group Hamas. This is Hamas's actions that have caused retaliation leading to escalation. The Israeli offered a cease fire and the Hamas rejected it. Once again like I said earlier the Palestinians are being used as Pawns by the radical Islamists and Arab countries.

I said this earlier if the Palestinians could screw together a manageable government not overrun by radical Islamic Jihadists they might have a fighting chance at establishing a homeland. Just throwing money a them does not work and is part of or failed foreign policy in that region in the past.

You can't fix something that is not willing to change or be fixed . No appeasing, no apologies harsh cold reality in your face.

redline racer510 · 07-25-2014, 09:39 AM

Palestinian death toll:770
Israeli death toll:32

lewisfk · 07-25-2014, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Dude wtf are you going on about. 1. The U.S. Is not and has never attacked the Palestinians. We do not owe them anything. Israel is our ally but it does not mean we tell them what to do, or owe for what they do. In fact they quite often do as they please as do several of our other allies like the French. Who I might add sell tech and weapons to countries that are pretty much hostile towards the U.S.

You really either are completely ignorant of geopolitics and mid eastern politics or you are just choosing to obtuse for the sake of argument.
What is going on right now was instigated by a kidnaping and killing of 3 Israeli teenagers by the radical Islamic group Hamas. This is Hamas's actions that have caused retaliation leading to escalation. The Israeli offered a cease fire and the Hamas rejected it. Once again like I said earlier the Palestinians are being used as Pawns by the radical Islamists and Arab countries.

I said this earlier if the Palestinians could screw together a manageable government not overrun by radical Islamic Jihadists they might have a fighting chance at establishing a homeland. Just throwing money a them does not work and is part of or failed foreign policy in that region in the past.

You can't fix something that is not willing to change or be fixed . No appeasing, no apologies harsh cold reality in your face.

14 years of military service with 2.5 years served in the middle east, horn of Africa and a few other countries, thats how I can make that statement. Regardless who is right or wrong in comes down to money and future strategic endeavors. The Palestinians have attached Americans, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its great see people talking about the world's problems but many of you are nuking it.

07-22-2014, 02:05 PM	#1
Kaifd3s Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tamarac, Florida Age: 35 Posts: 694 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Israel Invading Palestine I've been watching the crisis in Gaza for awhile now. I am just amazed at the US media only portraying the Israelis as the victims. Curious as to what are fellow Zilvian's thoughts. Proceed. __________________

07-22-2014, 02:54 PM	#3
simmode1 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Addison, TX Posts: 5,526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^Is that what's going on over there? I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land... __________________ "Simplicity is the key to brilliance." - Bruce Lee

07-22-2014, 03:11 PM	#11
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	Both sides are guilty. I know is not politically correct and I have Jewish friends but truth be told both sides are crazy as loons. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

07-22-2014, 04:16 PM	#13
LEG1T Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: N Y C Age: 35 Posts: 655 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	im with the Palestinians on this one. __________________ MMX MOFMEMSWSM

07-22-2014, 04:22 PM	#14
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	*Moved to Loud Noises.* __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

07-22-2014, 05:50 PM	#15
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo. Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator. Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple. None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact. Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right. Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either. Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip. Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving. It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country. Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries. Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can. Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy. Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

07-22-2014, 06:16 PM	#21
Corbic Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: US Age: 37 Posts: 8,027 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Drift Freaq basically hits the nail on the head with an excellent summarization.

07-23-2014, 02:09 PM	#22
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	So Russia keeps getting sanctioned and dragged through the mud for things that no one has any evidence they are responsible for, while here we have a full-blown one-sided war and everyone is just letting it slide. World politics are goofy.

07-24-2014, 02:40 PM	#25
supersayianjim Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: location X Posts: 1,807 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	but Israel has nukes, none else does, why doesn't the rest of the Muslim world understand that?? you can't really destroy Israel.... catch 22 is would they use one of their 150+(according to jimmy carter) nukes in such close proximity to their country?? __________________ http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/rb...ject-s-rb.html

07-24-2014, 10:35 PM	#27
lewisfk Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2009 Location: North Austin, Texas Age: 40 Posts: 1,162 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	There are some valid points throughout thread, but ask yourselves if Mexico or Canada had the views as the Palestinians would you feel comfortable? Our government is full of appeasers, one side banging the drums of war and the other waving the flag of liberal bullshit. Regardless of what side we support, there must be compensation. In the form of money or support when the U.S. government wants to rage war. The Palestinians cant pay the U.S. enough, and lack the strategic bases and abilities to rage war on a large scale. So who would you support?

07-25-2014, 09:39 AM	#29
redline racer510 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: EARFF(earth for you idiots) Posts: 1,072 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Palestinian death toll:770 Israeli death toll:32 __________________ WARNING: User has a low tolerance for stupidity. Post at your own risk.

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