so how about this election - Page 3 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

24Ochick<3 · 08-30-2008, 03:14 PM

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions

shishcabobers · 08-30-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Ochick<3

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions

This has gone way off the deep end...Uhh I understand this is a public forum and you can express your public views. Everyone has their own point of views, but just out of courtesy of Busted S13 topic, we should respect the fact that he was not looking for political bashing.

jonasblack · 08-30-2008, 03:29 PM

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

ESmorz · 08-30-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonasblack

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

Because he might

luftrofl · 08-30-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Ochick<3

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions

Sounds more like you couldn't handle other people's opinions

. If you're gonna attack a candidate, do it for reasons that are actually important- like how Obama seems like a lot of talk but doesn't go into how he's actually going to fix things. "omgwtfbbq he doesn't respektz uss" isn't acceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonasblack

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

VP is 1st in line if the President dies and is a tiebreaker in the Senate. I'd hardly call that useless.

Rayne · 08-30-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Ochick<3

who are you to say i'm an idiot? i'm veryy aware of what i posted about. it was spoken about on the NEWS and also filmed and replayed on the news, so before you go and BASH on anyone elses view on things, make sure what your BASHING on is truely , how do you say, UNTRUE! not everyone will have your opinion buddy, so chill on ur NEG. REPPING cause i have different thoughts. sorry, but your mind is not mine and my mind is not yours... don't expect everyone to feel the same way about issues sweety, your only setting yourself up for a letdown

ohh wait, i'm uneducated since i dont know every little detail of the debate.. i'm an idiot. sorry for giving my opinion ina PUBLIC FORUM where your supposed to give your views.. hahaha..

Picture 1
Picture 2

THE VIDEO OF OBAMA REFUSING TO SOLUTE TO THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. so much for me being UNEDUCATED huh?

hope you like it boys!
http://www.youtube.com/v/hU9iCANi02o&hl=en&fs=1

US Flag Code states the following:

(a)Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

First off, the US Code, for the flag, does not state what you posted.
The actual "US Flag Code" can be found at Title 4 USC Chapter 1 Sections 1-10

The US Code you posted is found in entirely different section. See the following link. Title 36 Subtitle 1 Part A Chapter 3 § 301

Anyway, if you are going to post the US code find the actual governmental source for others to read, rather than hearsay.

WERDdabuilder · 08-30-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonasblack

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

......

seriously has to be the #1 uneducated things ever said on zilvia and i see why you live in garbage grove.

but yeah, i remember back in high school when we would have to do the pledge of allegiance. im an atheist and i didn't stand and the teacher took me out to have a pep talk ha. she asked if i can just stand. and i LOVE AMERICA.

jonasblack · 08-30-2008, 03:46 PM

a vp has replaced a prez. only nine times in history. Ford being the last one to do so when Nixon resigned. IMHO vp don't due much. that is how the founding fathers designed it.

John Adams, the first vice president, described it as "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived."

aa87 · 08-30-2008, 03:57 PM

9 times out of 43 is pretty significant. In your own opinion, logic fails. Are we getting trolled? Who cares what John adams said back then, its still a big deal.

boro otaku · 08-30-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

I think I like Sarah Palin.

I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin

aa87 · 08-30-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boro otaku

I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin

Irony isnt it, Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?

Doo doo che!

jonasblack · 08-30-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa87

9 times out of 43 is pretty significant. In your own opinion, logic fails. Are we getting trolled? Who cares what John adams said back then, its still a big deal.

9 times in 219 years is NOT Significant.
People have served more than one term.

And I think we all care what people had to say back then. they did write our constitution.

Mi Beardo es Loco · 08-30-2008, 04:29 PM

It's really idiotic to come on here completely uneducated about either candidate and start spewing nonsense about EITHER candidate. Someone should start reading bio's instead of their grandmas chain letters.....I'm staring at you 240chick

boro otaku · 08-30-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa87

Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?

IMHO no, but I'm not going to e-argue to change anyone's mind

Mi Beardo es Loco · 08-30-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa87

Irony isnt it, Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?

Doo doo che!

Well, when she meant "good ol' boys" she referred to Alaska's previous corrupt regime, half of which might spend some time in jail. She was also referring to Ted Steven's "bridge to nowhere" which she is ON THE RECORD in 2006 to fully support. Now that Ted Stevens is definitely going to be spending time in jail, and on her biggest public speech mind you, she flat out lies and states that she "stared congress (Ted Stevens) in the face and said thanks but no thanks." She is a FLAT OUT LIAR.....but I'd still face pump the shit out of her

Gnnr · 08-30-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Ochick<3

US Flag Code states the following:

(a)Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Then they are ALL violating the code for having their backs to the Flag. So what is your point?

Mi Beardo es Loco · 08-30-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Then they are ALL violating the code for having their backs to the Flag. So what is your point?

Her info is coming from right field. Pay no attention.

Here's something interesting. Palin might have been helped by....get this.....a blog

rubelcon · 08-30-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WERDdabuilder

......

seriously has to be the #1 uneducated things ever said on zilvia

If it's not #1, it's near the top of the pile.

illvialuver · 08-30-2008, 07:05 PM

what do i think? i think it sucks.
you got the dems with a guy who looks black but is more like a rich white guy. I would much rather vote for PHLIP than for obama. all in all its going to be the same.
the reps have a guy that is the same as bush but more hardcore. and angry and sneaky which is why he picked an inexperienced vp cause she is a woman from the oil state of alaska, and will help sway the old hillary voters that wanted to vote for a woman.
and I highly doubt that america will ever be a nation of one religion let alone turning muslem. i almost dont want to vote. the idea buts a bad taste in my mouth.

imotion s14 · 08-30-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

you have your opinions. My opinions are based on half of what I see and half of what I hear. I HOPE Obama can change and there's no disputing the fact that when Clinton was pres we were better off

It's not really an opinion. I can prove my "opinion" with hard data from the US Treasury.

One only needs to know what a budget is to understand what a budget surplus is.

Quote:

Budget (from french bougette, purse) generally refers to a list of all planned expenses and revenues. A budget is an important concept in microeconomics, which uses a budget line to illustrate the trade-offs between two or more goods. In other terms, a budget is an organizational plan stated in monetary terms.

You can go look at the national debt at the US treasury website for each fiscal year Clinton was in office. To his credit he didn't have the massive deficit spending of previous presidents, nor the massive deficit from Bush II.

The "90s" were good because of 2 things. Little deficit spending (cold war was over) and the dot.com bubble.

The idea that there was a "surplus" during his years is nothing more than people not reading the "budget" in "budget surplus". People look at the world "surplus" and think the government took in more then it spent while not noticing that the national debt increased a bit during those years.

Let's look at it this way. If you spent $10 on scratch off tickets and won 8 dollars, did you REALLY win? That's basically Clinton in the 1990s. He didn't do the type of damage Bush II did, but there still was some deficit spending and he did come very close to balancing the budget. I'd say Bush II was winning 8 dollars after buying $100 dollars in scratch offs.

Yes we did have it very good in the 1990s but Clinton had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with the tech bubble of the 1990s. The government didn't pump capital into all those dot.coms that made their investors rich overnight and boosted the entire economy. He also had nothing to do with it when the market corrected itself and these internet millionaires became poor as fast as they became rich and the economy felt the bubble pop.

It's funny how they take credit for the highs but never for the lows.

rubelcon · 08-30-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boro otaku

I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin

umm.. Have you followed her track record in Alaska?

and on a whole other note, opinions should not be based on what you see and hear, rather what you read and research. Just don't drink the kool-aid.

Matej · 08-30-2008, 09:49 PM

Obama's campaign = Hope blablabla hope hope.
McCain's campaign = Don't vote Obama, vote me me me.

Oh great, thanks for the insightful information on what you two plan on doing.

The worst thing is that most people don't even care to research anything or educate themselves on the real world issues, their biggest concerns are who has more patriotism, who folds the flag correctly, who is what sex and skin color, who spent more time in the army, or who goes to church every Sunday. What's even more sad is that those people seem to be the majority in America.
A candidate who speaks of raising taxes? They're done. All while the national debt keeps growing, but hey, that's not our problem, the only things I care about is not paying higher taxes and that my president is able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance backwards in his sleep.

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

imotion s14 · 08-30-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

That's the thing tho.. we're not a democracy. We're a constitutional republic that uses a democratic system to choose our executive and legislative representatives.

The way mass media is set up to fed people information without them having to think much about it.

Fuck it, let's just blame the Baby Boomers.

drift freaq · 08-31-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Obama's campaign = Hope blablabla hope hope.
McCain's campaign = Don't vote Obama, vote me me me.

Oh great, thanks for the insightful information on what you two plan on doing.

The worst thing is that most people don't even care to research anything or educate themselves on the real world issues, their biggest concerns are who has more patriotism, who folds the flag correctly, who is what sex and skin color, who spent more time in the army, or who goes to church every Sunday. What's even more sad is that those people seem to be the majority in America.
A candidate who speaks of raising taxes? They're done. All while the national debt keeps growing, but hey, that's not our problem, the only things I care about is not paying higher taxes and that my president is able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance backwards in his sleep.

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

Wow I am impressed by your post. Its one of the best I have ever seen you make. This was done with intelligence, now don't lose faith Matej learn more and work for it.

shishcabobers · 08-31-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imotion s14

Fuck it, let's just blame the Baby Boomers.

lol at baby boomers, thanks to them my social security is going to be useless when I'm old.

drift freaq · 08-31-2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

Well actually, I live in Northwest Indiana (still a Chicago suburb and literally 5 minutes from the Illinois border and right in the thick of the Chicago media market), but I work in Chicago. I read Chicago newspapers, and all my news channels are Chicago news channels. Still, it doesn't take a genius to see through Obama's bullshit. Hell, for all i know he does have the best of intentions and all the love in the world for this country. But, I have yet to hear him say exactly how he plans to accomplish everything he says he will. You watch the news, you see Obama say "I plan to reduce the number of troops in the middle east, I plan to give every poor person healthcare, I plan to "change" America." I have yet to be convinced that he knows how to do any of these things. I like his message, but unless he can pull off half his promises without sending taxes through the roof, he can keep his change. I have been aware of Obama from the day he was elected, but even working IN his congressional district, I havent seen any spectacular change for the better.
*EDIT* I found a video that pretty much sums up my pessimism towards his platform.
YouTube - Obama's Former Chicago District in ruins.

It doesnt really matter if its McCain or Obama anyways, it takes more than a president to change the country. However, I see Obama's weakness and inability to lead in a somewhat positive light. In my opinion, Congress should be the most powerful branch of government. Bush has that balance of power all upended.

In all honesty, I like McCain's message better (eliminate wasteful spending, shrink government), but I dont know if I can believe anything the Republican party is putting out. After all, Bush ran on a small government, balanced budget, non-interventionalist platform when he won in 2000.

And Obama has actually been the head of which governmental body? The way I see it, she has more leadership experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined. Dont try and tell me that his three or so years of being in the Senate makes him any more qualified than Palin. And, for a large chunk of that time, Obama was on the campaign trail. I realize that Obama has been in the State senate since 1997, but I put that on the same level as Palin being mayor of a town.

Do not judge the Republican party on Bush. I am not Republican but I am intelligent enough to see that Bush was not your average or regular Republican. Beyond that Cheney and Rumsfield called a lot of shots.

Honestly you need a balance of either a Democratic president with a Republican congress or a Republican president with a Democratic congress for the sake of checks and balances.
Put a Republican president with a Republican congress and it would go to far one way its the same with a Democratic president with a Democratic congress. Right now we have a Democratic Majority in Congress. Now if that changes then a Democratic president would not be an issue. Though....

I will say this Palin has been the Governor of a State. In my opinion that can be a larger achievement than being a junior congressman aka Obama.
Obama has spent most of his time campaigning. Telling people what that want to hear.
Meanwhile Palin has been running a state. Oh and the funny thing about all of this is no one is talking about Biden. Why ? He is pretty much a hack. I said this before I will say it again, not in these exact words but McCain made a very savy move picking Palin.

drift freaq · 08-31-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shishcabobers

lol at baby boomers, thanks to them my social security is going to be useless when I'm old.

LOL at you. You think the baby boomers wrecked your social security. Go back and start studying young man. Social Security is not even working for baby boomers. Oh and glad to see you hate your parents.

shishcabobers · 08-31-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

LOL at you. You think the baby boomers wrecked your social security. Go back and start studying young man. Social Security is not even working for baby boomers. Oh and glad to see you hate your parents.

oops...i fail

ronmcdon · 08-31-2008, 12:32 AM

What I find most questionable about having Palin as VP, in terms of winning the election for McCain), is her overtly conservative stance. it's not the best choice if your intention is to win over the moderates and Clinton supporters (as indicated by the McCain ads of recent).

Ya, the women vote might be important, but I find it difficult to believe that there isn't another female choice that isn't so far to the right. With the endorsement of Bush, and the prospect of having Obama as president, I don't think it's the conservative voters that McCain should be worried about courting.

What I do like about Palin is her oratory skills (a quality obviously not to be underestimated), her executive experience, her disdain for corruption, and what I would consider to be a very charismatic personality. In some ways, it makes for some of McCain's perceived shortcomings, but I'm not so sure it is enough either.

Biden is a logical choice, but it is a bit dull. I am still not all that convinced with Obama's rhetoric either. The Democratic convention was entertaining, but not really all that informative either. Really kinda wish Hillary got the nomination instead. At least with the Clintons you know what to expect, and things can't get that out of hand either. I would have most likely supported them over McCain if she was the D candidate.

I'm still undecided, but I'm sure things will be fun to watch in the upcoming months (here in the US, as well as abroad). Unless something drastic happens, I'm putting my $$$ on Obama winning the election.

Mi Beardo es Loco · 08-31-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I will say this Palin has been the Governor of a State. In my opinion that can be a larger achievement than being a junior congressman aka Obama.
Obama has spent most of his time campaigning. Telling people what that want to hear.
Meanwhile Palin has been running a state. Oh and the funny thing about all of this is no one is talking about Biden. Why ? He is pretty much a hack. I said this before I will say it again, not in these exact words but McCain made a very savy move picking Palin.

I am republican also and am disgusted by the pick of McCain and Palin. Palin is the Governor of the 47th most popular state and has only been in charge for 20 months! Her entire justification to why she was picked was because she helped end corruption in a very corrupt Alaska. Well....escuse me....but she's being investigated for firing her ex brother in law for divorcing her sister. She also approved the famous "bridge to nowhere" before Ted Stevens was indited. To me, she's a hail mary pass attempting to draw in the FAAAAARRRRR right wing and religious freaks. Those crazies will do their campaigning for the McCain camp and, what's the saying?....one person screams in a crowd of whisperers....something like that.

08-30-2008, 03:29 PM	#63
jonasblack Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Eastvale, SoCal Posts: 184 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless. __________________

08-30-2008, 03:46 PM	#68
jonasblack Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Eastvale, SoCal Posts: 184 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	a vp has replaced a prez. only nine times in history. Ford being the last one to do so when Nixon resigned. IMHO vp don't due much. that is how the founding fathers designed it. John Adams, the first vice president, described it as "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived." __________________ Last edited by jonasblack; 08-30-2008 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: forgot to quote person ablove me

08-30-2008, 03:57 PM	#69
aa87 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Shreveport, LA Age: 33 Posts: 1,116 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	9 times out of 43 is pretty significant. In your own opinion, logic fails. Are we getting trolled? Who cares what John adams said back then, its still a big deal. __________________ Hookers and blow.

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08-30-2008, 03:14 PM	#61
24Ochick<3 Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: sometimes i feel like everyday is my birthday, let your tops down; california's my birthplace! Age: 33 Posts: 61 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions

08-30-2008, 07:05 PM	#79
illvialuver Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: M-A-R-S... MARS BITCHES Age: 38 Posts: 5,065 Trader Rating: (35) Feedback Score: 35 reviews	what do i think? i think it sucks. you got the dems with a guy who looks black but is more like a rich white guy. I would much rather vote for PHLIP than for obama. all in all its going to be the same. the reps have a guy that is the same as bush but more hardcore. and angry and sneaky which is why he picked an inexperienced vp cause she is a woman from the oil state of alaska, and will help sway the old hillary voters that wanted to vote for a woman. and I highly doubt that america will ever be a nation of one religion let alone turning muslem. i almost dont want to vote. the idea buts a bad taste in my mouth.

08-30-2008, 09:49 PM	#82
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Obama's campaign = Hope blablabla hope hope. McCain's campaign = Don't vote Obama, vote me me me. Oh great, thanks for the insightful information on what you two plan on doing. The worst thing is that most people don't even care to research anything or educate themselves on the real world issues, their biggest concerns are who has more patriotism, who folds the flag correctly, who is what sex and skin color, who spent more time in the army, or who goes to church every Sunday. What's even more sad is that those people seem to be the majority in America. A candidate who speaks of raising taxes? They're done. All while the national debt keeps growing, but hey, that's not our problem, the only things I care about is not paying higher taxes and that my president is able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance backwards in his sleep. Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

08-31-2008, 12:32 AM	#89
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	What I find most questionable about having Palin as VP, in terms of winning the election for McCain), is her overtly conservative stance. it's not the best choice if your intention is to win over the moderates and Clinton supporters (as indicated by the McCain ads of recent). Ya, the women vote might be important, but I find it difficult to believe that there isn't another female choice that isn't so far to the right. With the endorsement of Bush, and the prospect of having Obama as president, I don't think it's the conservative voters that McCain should be worried about courting. What I do like about Palin is her oratory skills (a quality obviously not to be underestimated), her executive experience, her disdain for corruption, and what I would consider to be a very charismatic personality. In some ways, it makes for some of McCain's perceived shortcomings, but I'm not so sure it is enough either. Biden is a logical choice, but it is a bit dull. I am still not all that convinced with Obama's rhetoric either. The Democratic convention was entertaining, but not really all that informative either. Really kinda wish Hillary got the nomination instead. At least with the Clintons you know what to expect, and things can't get that out of hand either. I would have most likely supported them over McCain if she was the D candidate. I'm still undecided, but I'm sure things will be fun to watch in the upcoming months (here in the US, as well as abroad). Unless something drastic happens, I'm putting my $$$ on Obama winning the election.