imotion s14

All of his income is CG because he's on the board of Berkshire and CHOOSES not to pay himself a salary.

I guess so he can blow himself and pretend that he's middle-class Joe Blow?

imotion s14

lets say I owed $100,000 in loans.

So to fix my debt issue, I need to get a new loan to further increase my debt. Then in the future I'm going to definitely make the hard choice (that I could never make the 70 times before) to become fiscally responsible and reduce my debt.

Makes sense.

tricky_ab

The problem is Obama or the Democrats don't have much of a backbone.This isn't the first time Obama has caved like this to the Republicans. It was a tough situation for him if you think about.I have no doubt had Obama been tougher the Republicans would have been more than willing to take it to default. It may make everyone look bad but in the end if a default did happen and the amount of knowledge the vast majority of Americans have in politics it would be incredibly easy for the Republicans to spin this towards Obamas fault.

The tea party are dangerous they are the main reason things changed to this point and they made out on top.The problem with the Tea party from what I can see is the majority of them are well off, they have health care and such.America has this attitude that its the American dream and its everyone for themselves and this is how the tea party thinks. Here in Canada we all pay taxes fairly equally and that ensures that everyone rich or poor has things like health care and the mass majority has options and access to education at a fairly reasonable rate.

This idea isn't shared with the states unfortunately which is a shame the idea of why should I have to help someone else out is a very sad thought and this is what the tea party wants. Yet I do not fully understand the tea party. The stuff they complain about like medicare and stuff is about to take a hit as this deal is almost as bad as default its a mess and doesn't benefit anyone but the republicans and tea party's special interests.

It's weird to watch as the US needs to be careful because they are falling behind in most categories like education, technology and so on.The wars need to end and the US needs to get it's shit together soon and hopefully they don't get downgraded because it would suck for those trying to go to college and whatnot

Mrpopo

Pretty sure Canada is going the same direction that we are. Too much spending. Taxes were meant to run the government not redistribute wealth.

TheWolf

I don't think the tea party is dangerous. I think they believe in what they care in. It's a values thing and that is mostly what most people don't get. They believe the function of national gov't is to protect the coast and deliver the mail. Their view is certainly the founding fathers didn't feel the gov't's job was to be in the student loan business or the mortgage business.

They don't believe in taking money from the gov't. They don't believe in taking someone else's pay for free due to "circumstances". They believe that social safety nets reward people for doing nothing and hurt work ethic. 95% of the wealthy got there by work strong work ethic and that certainly is not a strong societal value any more. They believe this "social decay" is caused by entitlement programs that allow people to live relatively comfortable without working. They have nothing to do other than breed. Those kids grow up knowing no work ethic.

They feel the only way to stop this cycle is to starve the entitlements. They don't think we need a national debt. It's not just about making interest payments, it's about not making interest payments. Financing is another word for paying today's obligations with tomorrows revenues. All that national debt is something someone else is going to have to pay. The country has officially split. There's no compromising on finances. You either pay it or not.

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Mrpopo

Well said sir. I concur

cdlong

I believe it was 102 times, but anyway... The debt ceiling and paying back the debt are independant from each other. We've already "spent" more than we have (how we got from the May deadline to the August deadline) by borrowing within the government. And we've already agreed to/planned more spending. So we need to raise the ceiling to cover that. Paying down the debt, i.e. bringing in more than we spend, is the hard choice. I lean to the left somewhat but I agree it's time to make some hard choices. And only Idiots from the Right actually think the Left wants to continue to accrue more debt. But you don't get reelected by making hard choices. We need to hold politicians accountable, but not punish them for making hard choices.

I bet the number of tea partiers that took out school loans and claim mortgage interest on their taxes is virtually no different than the general population. Maybe not dangerous (except in their in ability to compromise) but deluded for sure.

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codyace

I'd say only about 5-10% of the wealthiest peole got their from actually working, the number may even be less. MOST of the established wealthy people in this country are born into it anymore. Their lavish lifestyle (which is over-reported by the media) often serves as a bad example for the poor, who in turn see the rich fucking off and having a time, and then do the same themselves, never understanding what they are doing is wrong, as that's all they see on the news or on TV anymore. As much as I hate to say it, Entertainment related role models are often far from such.

Not trying to swerve the debate, as even I dot not have a firm opinion on the tea party group. (I see the positives of both sides)

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codyace

I'm pretty sure the donations and assitance WG (and most of the US wealthy list) FAR surpass the taxes they would pay if they claimed a salary.

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slowvia

Exactly. But keep in mind we arent talking about "just" well off people, the kind of people in your town that drive around in new Mercedes and such, rather the ULTRA wealthy. The Bush's, the Rockefeller's and so on. Those people were just lucky enough to be born into that situation, and thats how I feel the majority of the uber-wealthy got into their situation.
Dont get me wrong, I know a few very hard working wealthy individuals, but at the same time dont tell me that middle class workers have no work ethic and are lazy etc. We work our asses off! If the entire middle and lower class just decided to stop working for even a single day, this entire nation would fall faster than a drunk chick taking her 21st shot.

TheWolf

I've met a lot of wealthy individuals and to be honest, very few of them got there by luck or inheritance. If we're talking about the wealthy of the wealthy then you maybe right on some accord. What is wealthy? according to uncle sam it's 250k a year. I know people who make that and they don't feel it.

If we're talking about setting examples here, then I can see where some jersey shore idiots show getting a nice car and running a $500 bar tab every night might be a bad example. Kids need role models and they can't count on their parents to be that model due to the degradation of the societal family unit. (that's a much longer different argument)

What example do our politicians set for us? Al gore's up there telling me I need to run out to home depot to buy CFL's for my bathroom to save the planet while his mansion runs $30,000 a year in electric. Obama's talking about saving the country money while flying air force 1 around trolling for campaign contributions. "What we're out of money? Let me just get on my personal 747 and go play a round of golf and see if I can't jingle the cash tree one more time"

As I've said before, obama was the best thing that ever happened for the republicans. Love him or hate him. He's so polarizing that he forces you to pick a side. He's worse than justin beiber. You're either in love with him and he can do no wrong. Or he's a complete twit. The pressure that created this groundswell opposition was created by him. Before it was a loose group of individuals that wrote their congressman, now it's somewhat of a movement. Calling them jihadists or terrorists only fuels them. They believe the gov't is operating out of trust with the publics dollar and wants them to restore that trust. You can't borrow your way out of a ponzi scheme. You can only pay it off.

As to taking a mortgage interest deduction. Yeah I do. I do the best with the rules provided for me. I don't think a mortgage interest deduction got me to buy a house and I don't think that getting rid of it would bring the housing market to a standstill. It would probably decimate the jumbo mortgage industry though. Yes there is a great need for tax reform though. That will not happen though as it's a sacred cow of both sides.

In the end, I foresee a proposed VAT tax of 1% being floated out of this group of 12 panel and no one agreeing to anything they say.

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codyace

To make 250k a year and not feal wealthy is their own fault; there is no reason to not be well off with that aspect. It all boils down to the cliche needs vs wants.

Without a doubt our politicians set (or don't bother) a terrible role image, however I do not think our presidents ability (in regard to travel) should stand as the prime example of whats wrong with the nation. Since day one they've got special treatment, and I wholeheartedly agree that they deserve it, whether I like them or not. They 'are' our leader...no matter which way you slice it they will get special treatment regardless.


Unfortunatly you are (to me) 100% right. Neither side stands to personally gain from reform, so they would rather let it be. That's terrible politics.

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Mrpopo

The fair/flat tax is the most equal and fair system of all but politicians hate it because they can't dip into our pockets whenever they please to buy votes. Look at the country Georgia which has a flat tax system. Their economy is booming and the flat tax is the reason.

250k in some places might be a nice paycheck but in most places like San Fran, new York, or atl it is minuscule. Cost of living makes a big difference.

cdlong

I've seen studies that say people are generally no happier once they make over $75k/year. A quick google search came up with this cost of living chart. In the continental US, the highest, NY/CA, is 44%higher than the lowest, MI. So the money buying happiness threshold (I just made that up) in CA is $108K/year. Cody's right, being happy at that point is their problem, more money won't fix it.

Georgia is doing well because they are giving tax breaks to bring in new businesses and manufacturing. Tax breaks. To specific companies. They're buying your votes with jobs. Damn them. That being said, I think a simplier tax code is necessary.

I think the point is that someone that makes $250k/yr generally doesn't work five times harder than someone that makes $50k/yr. And someone that makes $10M certainly doesn't work 200 times harder.

And that's fine, but to pretend you (2nd person, not you TheWolf) don't benefit from it and act like it's the downfall of the American society is either deceptive or stupid. It didn't get me to buy my house either, but to change something that might make a small difference while we're still in a massive housing crisis is a bad idea.

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DoobieS13

Fucccccccc this shit. Lol moving to Australia

Freddy

wait... what?

axiomatik

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are absolutely insane. I live in Atlanta, and I have lived in San Francisco. The cost of living in Atlanta is nothing compared to SF or NY. Living in Atlanta is cheap. If you think $250k is minuscule in ATL then you have an entirely warped sense of economic reality. I work with a bunch of blue-collar guys who make about $16/hour (~$33k/yr), and yet somehow they own homes and buy new cars (not all of them, mind you). How could they ever afford to do that for less than $250k/yr?

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slowvia

You guys should watch The One Percent.

slowvia

Yeah that makes sense. Ive heard before that every single person living in New York makes at least that much, even this guy makes 100 grand a year.

Mrpopo

That has nothing to do with what I said.
And earlier I was referring to the country of Georgia near Russia. They have flat tax and the economy is booming.

slowvia

That has everything to do with what you said sir. Be a man and admit you are wrong. No shame in that, if Im wrong, Ill be the first to admit it.

S14DB

I would disagree with that correlation. Yes they have a lot of economic growth and Deficit growth. But the Flat Tax removed all taxes on businesses and put it all on individuals. This significantly reduced the corruption within the tax collectors office and increased the amount of taxes collected.

Economy of Georgia (country) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Mrpopo

The reason it has nothing to do with what I said slowvia, is because my statement was that 250k in some places seems less because of cost of living. Learn to read.

And the tax on individuals in Georgia is something like 19%. If you buy something you pay tax on it if you don't buy something you don't pay the tax. Very simple system.

TheWolf

Just remember. " We need this debt ceiling deal or the economy will spiral into a free fall."

Market Report - Aug. 4, 2011 - CNNMoney

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slowvia

I can read. I think the problem is a classic case of "read what I meant not what I wrote."

ayuaddict

You do realize that 250k means $250,000 per year, right?

Mrpopo

Uh yeah. House payment, car payment, credit cards(if you have them), utilities, maintenance on house and cars, Children's needs, food....if you're a single person in an apartment 250k a year is awesome but if you have a home and a couple kids and wife it runs out quick. Even worse if you have hobbies like 240s.

All I'm saying here people, is I shouldn't have to pay more in taxes because I make more. If you liberals are talking about social justice then you can go flush yourself you Marxist idiots. No man or government has the right to take what one man earns and give it to another in the name of equality. Just watch the next elections. The majority of Americans are tired of this BS.

Corbic

$250,000 is garbage. Granted it's far more then I make.

$250,000 10% toward retirement, $225,000 x taxes = $135,000 CASH

Driving 15k a year, two cars (wife) at 20mpg is ~ $6,000 a year
Average house price in 2007 was $330,000. This is a $2,784 a month Mortgage for 15 years. + PMI + PT x 12 = $39,108
Average Electric $150, Gas/Heat $180, Water/Garbage $75, Cable $125, Phones $300, $850 a month x 12 = $10,200
Average Vehicle is $30,000, $579 a month, x 2 (wife) + insurance $150 x 12 = $15,696
Home insurance - $2,200 a year
Average Student Loan payments $182 a month x 2 (you met your wife in school) 364 x 12 = $4,368
$192 per month is average cost of food per person in a family (seems really low) but that’s 4 x 192 x 12 = $9,216
Kids are reported to cost between $400 and $1,400 a month, you got two, your wealthy so they are spoiled, let's call it $1,200 x 2 x12 = $28,800
1 vacation a year, $1,800 per person x 4 = $7,200
Lawn Care - you live in a nice place, you give a damn = $1,500 a year
Home Care - $1,500 a year (that is on the cheap side)
Annual vehicle registration - $500
School Books / ect - $1,300



So this is all assuming you have 1 Wife, and two small kids, no teenagers which would add more cost for your stupid expensive clothing, cell phone plans, cars, car insurance and the constant "hey dad, spot me $20". This also does not take into account healthcare, life insurance, dental, eye-care ect. This also doesn't have all those other unexpected expensive, speeding tickets, new clothes, new tv, new ipod ext... and guess what.

Total $127,588

That leaves you $7,412 left over... but oh great, Democrats what to tax you an extra $10,000 a year cause your "rich". It's easy to think a lump of cash was "OMFG RICH" when you're a 16 year old broke ass living at home. I make Katrillionz more than I ever did in High school or College, yet I have less spending money then ever before because guess what, owning a home and taking care of business is god damn expensive.


To quote Pitbull, "Billion is the new Million"

codyace

The funny/ironic thing of what you posted, is that it's a prime example of people leaving completely beyond their damn means.

THe issue IMO is not income in regard to these theoretical 'is XXXX enough money to live'...the issue are peoples delusional living standards, and their inability to maintain them. I'm not disagreeing with your list, and that it will require that to have that lifestyle, but any human being with common sense would see how to slash that list in half. These comments are not directed at you Corbic just in general


1. Instead of 2 20mpg cars, carpool, or get 2 30-40 mpg cars. Diesel jettas? Honda civics?

2. Average home price may have been that, but it's TOO MUCH. Move. Granted you need to follow jobs, but you can find better deals with much lower mortanges

3.Phones $300, $850 a month x 12 = $10,200 Here is another disaster: WHY. I will gladly pay 25 dollars a month for my phone, that's 300 dollars a year.

4. BUy used cars. Who needs a 30k car? 1500 dollar Civic that you commute in that gets 40 mpg is the way to go here.

5. Student loans? Well that's a risk. As much as I don't think it's the only reason to join, but there were PLENTY of options that would pay for school and or take a big amount off. The military is 'always' hiring.

6. Lawn care? Mow it yourself. 1500 bucks for a nice used tractor, and do it up.

7. Home care? It's amazing how lazy people are.


I know it's off topic, but I'm a firm believer that maintaining a lifestyle should not be the sole reason of income. For 250k a year, I could live VERY comfortably, and have a great time.

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Corbic

Ok Jimmy Carter... so someone making 250k a year should live like they
are only making $20,000 a year? I'm sorry, but that strikes me as
delusional. People work hard and make money to live better. That
thinking is what Economists constantly caution about, if the Government
is just planning on taking all your money so that you live "like
everyone else" then why make money? With no incentive to make money, you
have the entire country will end up like the inner cities or parts of
Europe. Please notice how no technological, economical or industrial
innovation has come from Belgium or Greece.





Carpooling is the most unrealistic and idiotic idea ever. If I'm making
250k a year, I'm not bumming rides like some high school kid or inner
city dreg. 20mpg is the average. Sure Mom has a Civic, Dad a Pick Up, or
maybe Dad a used Audi and Mom a Windstar. Maybe we could elect you, and
you could mandate the only car in America is a 50mpg Yugo and then have
it built by the Government, 1 per family, so where all equal.


I was using 2007 dollars as stated. Yes, today houses are cheaper, but
if you have a family of 4 and are already making 250k, you no doubt
bought a house 4-5 years ago. And what do you mean "find better deals".
If I want to live in a nice, safe neighborhood with good schools and a
large 4-5 bedroom house with a 3 car garage, you are paying minimal
$250-350k depending on area. Not everyone wants to live a 50 year old 2
bedroom bungalow in some rundown neighborhood. This is why you strive to
make more money, to get away for those places.

Your are kind of miss quoting me. Phones would be $3,600. If you want a
full plan from ATT or Verizon, it will cost about $100 a month.
Internet, Talk and Text. Once again, making 250k a year it's expected
that you'd be accessible 24/7 with a email ready phone. I got $300
assuming your kid has a phone. This list was in no way to be a guide to
live, just an example of how quick "all that money" can go.


Better yet, Ride the Bus! Buy a Horse, walk!

Get over it. Realities are, why should you expect a professional with a
family to live like a broke ass college kid? New(Er) cars offer better
safety, comfort and reliability. Buying the "used" 10k POS to save
upfront can easily cost you in the long run with repair (few people car
work on their own car) and it will be a less safe, less comfortable POS.



Brilliant. Fuck School, Join the Military, go to Afghanistan and you'll
be making 250k in a few years. The only people that lead financially
successful lives post Military are Officers and that requires a College
degree prior to enlistment. To make $250k a year, you are going to need
to be extremely creative/business savy, or a high-class professional -
You will no doubt need post graduate educations, Medical, Law, MBA


You don't own a lawn, do you? $1,500 was the DIY costing. This includes
purchase and upkeep of tools - racks, shovels, mowers, wackers and saws.
As well as fertilizer, sprinkler systems, ect ect.

No I'm not talking about some Illegal Maid, I'm talking about "crap,
this window needs replaced" "Oh deer, the roof is going" "hmm, time to
repaint this room" "@#%king water heater!!!!" "you flushed what down
the toilet!!" "wow is their now power in the basement?!"



YOU COULD. As COULD I. However, as could most people. My point is I'm
tired of hearing broke ass kids whine about how much money 250k ect is.
Its not a lot of money. Its good money, but you are not rolling in a
Ferrari and jet setting to your private yatch in Miami. You're just some
schmuck dentist with a lot of bills, some kids and a 4 bedroom house,
not some anti-Christ living in a Castle rolling in gold coins that
deserves to have his money taken from him so I can buy another carton of
cigarettes and some rims for my broke ass Cutlass.

Don't start throwing rocks at the 80-250k income earners and their
financial decisions to buy a new Camry and lease a H2 when poor people
make even bigger, even stupider financial decisions on a daily basis.

Yes, lets buy a six-pack and carton of smokes for $50 when I have no
health insurance and I'm laid off work. BRILLIANT.
I want a 240sx project even though I live at home and I'm trying to go
to school and I make $400 a month working at Wal-Mart! But dood, this
$40 streetware shirt is tight!!