This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 94 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

codyace · 06-01-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar!

So it might be possible to use a 200sx ball joint on a s13?

I know megan racing made balljoints for the flca, but I thought people said it didn't do anything...

I'm certainly no engineer, but I'm curious to having that snap ring so 'high' above the seat being a possible issue.

Razi · 06-01-2011, 10:44 PM

If I remember correctly, the Megan balljoint shank is about the same length as the stock one, so it doesn't do anything.

Btw, does anyone have experience with Dmax tie rod ends?
I was thinking about buying them, they are going for 100 bucks at 240sxmotoring.

godrifttoday · 06-01-2011, 10:45 PM

Cody the snap ring, appears to be I'n the identical location as the stock one... And even if it was higher the stock one does not touch the lower control arm either. So I would assume to be fine... Will see what other think

*ManoNegra* · 06-02-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godrifttoday

Cody the snap ring, appears to be I'n the identical location as the stock one... And even if it was higher the stock one does not touch the lower control arm either. So I would assume to be fine... Will see what other think

Did you measure the OD of the balljoint to make sure you get
the same press fit as the stock one?

Measure the taper? S13 or S14 or something else?

Those would be my concerns.
Good lead though.

godrifttoday · 06-02-2011, 11:58 AM

I don't have a measuring device... Before I install the other side I'm going to measure it maybe it's different

sliksta1 · 06-08-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Like this?

Or this?

Yeah, I plan on it once I get these angle mods done and tested.

where can i find more info? i want to do this to my knuckles. what does it take to weld something this thick?

PoorMans180SX · 06-09-2011, 11:47 AM

Aasbo's Scion tC knuckle.

Hmmmm, it uses an S-chassis steering rack, is this an s-chassis knuckle? They don't say specifically, but it looks like it to me:

That's a pretty trick setup, bolting to the brake caliper bracket, and the knuckle looks to be machined flat (where the steering arm normall starts) and drilled for another bolt, with the steering arm wrapping around the ball joint.

FLCA's are pretty cool too.

onehundredoctane · 06-09-2011, 12:13 PM

it looks like the bracket they've added there actually bolts in where an ABS sensor used to. . .

PoorMans180SX · 06-09-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

it looks like the bracket they've added there actually bolts in where an ABS sensor used to. . .

Ahhhh yes, that's it! I forget that ABS cars have a hole there.

onehundredoctane · 06-09-2011, 01:45 PM

iirc the S-chassis abs sensor bolt is rather small. on the TC they may have drilled the origional bolt hole out and made it bigger, then threaded it.

codyace · 06-09-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godrifttoday

Cody the snap ring, appears to be I'n the identical location as the stock one... And even if it was higher the stock one does not touch the lower control arm either. So I would assume to be fine... Will see what other think

I was thinking about that there....red line is the base....green is the stock stap ring....orange the new. Don't you want the snap ring close to the LCA as possible?

Def · 06-09-2011, 07:46 PM

That thing doesn't look like it does dick anyway, maybe 1/8" of RC correction max... and yes, you want the snap ring to keep the balljoint from moving.

SicBastard · 06-10-2011, 01:29 AM

I finally got my hands on some suspension modeling software and just did the calcs. Even with the best of the best ball joints, the $275 moonface, you're only reducing the roll couple from 12.125" to 10.625". For a whopping gain of 1.5". Big deal.

Post # 385 if you're interested

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...to-pan-13.html

swiftmini · 06-10-2011, 02:11 AM

50mm rc corrected hubs raised my rc by 110mm.

I have since raised the front end up so I have pretty good roll centre.

I wouldn't bother with gay balljoints lol

s14unimog · 06-10-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

I was thinking about that there....red line is the base....green is the stock stap ring....orange the new. Don't you want the snap ring close to the LCA as possible?

I think there is actually a spacer that supposed to go between the LCA and the snap ring retention feature. Either the case it seems even the stock ones don't actually contact the LCA; I just took mine out for powder coating. I think its just a safety measure. The ball joints in my Cherokee don't have snap rings at all; but I've actually seen someone rip them out on the trail.

Razi · 06-10-2011, 12:54 PM

Ugh.
I ordered the Dmax tie rods but turns out 240sxmotoring no longer carries them because Dmax USA went bust.

s14unimog · 06-10-2011, 01:01 PM

SPL carries some nice ones. So does Megan.

Razi · 06-10-2011, 01:07 PM

lol megan.

s14unimog · 06-10-2011, 01:58 PM

yeah, there is that... So like I said, SPL makes some nice ones.

SLYDHO · 06-11-2011, 03:33 AM

hey guys new to this forum, kinda well i read through this thready about 4 times now. twice after taking to my steering setup. done some mods, moved rack forward 30 and up 30mm, along with some tie rod rose joint spaced down 20mm. cut and lenghten the fron LCA's between the caster and out ball joint by 40mm, as well as Steering rack spacers washers. 10mm as well as some Custom Hubs that i managed to copy off a mate, i did make a few small tweeks to the jigs, well here is the result. i still need to get it out ont a flat piece of concrete and mark out the angles of turn each wheel at say 1/4 turn 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn and full lock to make sure the trailing wheel at no point has more angle then the leading as the trailing wheel does look pretty extreme.

and a few of it in action.

PoorMans180SX · 06-11-2011, 09:16 AM

You moved the steering 50mm without changing the location of the LCA? Sounds like bumpsteer city. Please post pics of the actual suspension parts!

Yes, it does look like you have zero or possibly negative ackerman, but it's hard to tell from pictures.

Pandapants · 06-11-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razi

Ugh.
I ordered the Dmax tie rods but turns out 240sxmotoring no longer carries them because Dmax USA went bust.

Don't bother with the generic tie rods Razi. They all look the same, and if that's the case, they only offer about 16mm of adjustment over stock with same articulation. Splurge for SPL and get better rod ends, more articulation, and more adjustment.

SicBastard · 06-11-2011, 12:00 PM

If you had room to move your steering rack up 30mm than that means you had room to lower your engine 30mm. Lowering the engine/trans and making the height correctio at the spindle with spacers would pay off in handling department big time.

Razi · 06-11-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandapants

Don't bother with the generic tie rods Razi. They all look the same, and if that's the case, they only offer about 16mm of adjustment over stock with same articulation. Splurge for SPL and get better rod ends, more articulation, and more adjustment.

Yeah, I guess I'll have to buy SPL.
I don't mind coughing up an extra 100, but don't I also need to buy Z33 inner rods to make em work with the stock knuckles?
Is that because the threads on the S14 inner rods don't go deep enough? Or can I trim a bit off the S14 inner rods and make them work with the SPL?

Patrick Bowering · 06-11-2011, 03:26 PM

OK everyone I need inner tie rod suggestions, right now I have pbm knuckles with s14 lower control arms on an s13 with moog outers and back arnley inners. The s14 inners dont have a very long rack side so that makes me a bit nervous with the spacers and Im ok for threads on the outside but im only on the first hole in the knuckles not the second one. what else do I have for options I am not having any luck finding ikeya formula ones.

thefro526 · 06-11-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Bowering

OK everyone I need inner tie rod suggestions, right now I have pbm knuckles with s14 lower control arms on an s13 with moog outers and back arnley inners. The s14 inners dont have a very long rack side so that makes me a bit nervous with the spacers and Im ok for threads on the outside but im only on the first hole in the knuckles not the second one. what else do I have for options I am not having any luck finding ikeya formula ones.

PBM Makes a tie rod specifically for cars with Knuckles. You'd have to run S14 outers with them, but they should do the job. POWERED BY MAX:

A local guy just bought them and loves 'em.

mrchomponthis · 06-11-2011, 03:51 PM

With all this angle people are making does anyone care about mechanic jacking? seems to be a big tuning point on karts and race cars...

SLYDHO · 06-11-2011, 06:00 PM

well i just measure up my steering angles. turns out i've gone the other way now and have alot more negitive ackerman man, now, so gona put a stock engine xmember back in and slowly adjust rack position till i get to the 0 point. or as close to it as i can

Patrick Bowering · 06-12-2011, 01:13 AM

PBM is out of stock and is doing a little reworking on there inners last I talked to them. I was on the wait list for a long time but then things changed up a bit.

Patrick Bowering · 06-12-2011, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrchomponthis

With all this angle people are making does anyone care about mechanic jacking? seems to be a big tuning point on karts and race cars...

from what I have noticed if you run enough static camber and proper caster settings to keep a somewhat flat contact patch at angle it is not so bad. I also heard that alot of S13 drift cars are having good results from running reverse rake. Not to mention that I would think in grip racing situations it causes alot more instabilty than in drifting. But that is just my uneducated look at things I could be completely off.

06-01-2011, 10:45 PM	#2793
godrifttoday Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: los angeles Age: 37 Posts: 3,120 Trader Rating: (82) Feedback Score: 82 reviews	Cody the snap ring, appears to be I'n the identical location as the stock one... And even if it was higher the stock one does not touch the lower control arm either. So I would assume to be fine... Will see what other think __________________ NEED Bolt kits for your car?

06-02-2011, 11:58 AM	#2795
godrifttoday Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: los angeles Age: 37 Posts: 3,120 Trader Rating: (82) Feedback Score: 82 reviews	I don't have a measuring device... Before I install the other side I'm going to measure it maybe it's different __________________ NEED Bolt kits for your car?

06-09-2011, 11:47 AM	#2797
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Aasbo's Scion tC knuckle. Hmmmm, it uses an S-chassis steering rack, is this an s-chassis knuckle? They don't say specifically, but it looks like it to me: That's a pretty trick setup, bolting to the brake caliper bracket, and the knuckle looks to be machined flat (where the steering arm normall starts) and drilled for another bolt, with the steering arm wrapping around the ball joint. FLCA's are pretty cool too. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs. Last edited by PoorMans180SX; 06-09-2011 at 12:20 PM..

06-09-2011, 07:46 PM	#2802
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	That thing doesn't look like it does dick anyway, maybe 1/8" of RC correction max... and yes, you want the snap ring to keep the balljoint from moving. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

06-10-2011, 01:29 AM	#2803
SicBastard Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 803 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I finally got my hands on some suspension modeling software and just did the calcs. Even with the best of the best ball joints, the $275 moonface, you're only reducing the roll couple from 12.125" to 10.625". For a whopping gain of 1.5". Big deal. Post # 385 if you're interested http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...to-pan-13.html __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

06-01-2011, 10:44 PM	#2792
Razi Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 630 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	If I remember correctly, the Megan balljoint shank is about the same length as the stock one, so it doesn't do anything. Btw, does anyone have experience with Dmax tie rod ends? I was thinking about buying them, they are going for 100 bucks at 240sxmotoring.

06-09-2011, 12:13 PM	#2798
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	it looks like the bracket they've added there actually bolts in where an ABS sensor used to. . .

06-09-2011, 01:45 PM	#2800
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	iirc the S-chassis abs sensor bolt is rather small. on the TC they may have drilled the origional bolt hole out and made it bigger, then threaded it.

06-10-2011, 02:11 AM	#2804
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	50mm rc corrected hubs raised my rc by 110mm. I have since raised the front end up so I have pretty good roll centre. I wouldn't bother with gay balljoints lol __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-10-2011, 12:54 PM	#2806
Razi Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 630 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Ugh. I ordered the Dmax tie rods but turns out 240sxmotoring no longer carries them because Dmax USA went bust.

06-10-2011, 01:01 PM	#2807
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	SPL carries some nice ones. So does Megan. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

06-10-2011, 01:07 PM	#2808
Razi Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 630 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	lol megan.

06-10-2011, 01:58 PM	#2809
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	yeah, there is that... So like I said, SPL makes some nice ones. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

06-11-2011, 03:33 AM	#2810
SLYDHO Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hey guys new to this forum, kinda well i read through this thready about 4 times now. twice after taking to my steering setup. done some mods, moved rack forward 30 and up 30mm, along with some tie rod rose joint spaced down 20mm. cut and lenghten the fron LCA's between the caster and out ball joint by 40mm, as well as Steering rack spacers washers. 10mm as well as some Custom Hubs that i managed to copy off a mate, i did make a few small tweeks to the jigs, well here is the result. i still need to get it out ont a flat piece of concrete and mark out the angles of turn each wheel at say 1/4 turn 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn and full lock to make sure the trailing wheel at no point has more angle then the leading as the trailing wheel does look pretty extreme. and a few of it in action.

06-11-2011, 09:16 AM	#2811
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	You moved the steering 50mm without changing the location of the LCA? Sounds like bumpsteer city. Please post pics of the actual suspension parts! Yes, it does look like you have zero or possibly negative ackerman, but it's hard to tell from pictures. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

06-11-2011, 12:00 PM	#2813
SicBastard Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 803 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you had room to move your steering rack up 30mm than that means you had room to lower your engine 30mm. Lowering the engine/trans and making the height correctio at the spindle with spacers would pay off in handling department big time. __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

06-11-2011, 03:26 PM	#2815
Patrick Bowering Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 32 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	OK everyone I need inner tie rod suggestions, right now I have pbm knuckles with s14 lower control arms on an s13 with moog outers and back arnley inners. The s14 inners dont have a very long rack side so that makes me a bit nervous with the spacers and Im ok for threads on the outside but im only on the first hole in the knuckles not the second one. what else do I have for options I am not having any luck finding ikeya formula ones.

06-11-2011, 03:51 PM	#2817
mrchomponthis Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: fghjghjfg Age: 33 Posts: 877 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	With all this angle people are making does anyone care about mechanic jacking? seems to be a big tuning point on karts and race cars... __________________ CHOMPONWHAT?

06-11-2011, 06:00 PM	#2818
SLYDHO Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well i just measure up my steering angles. turns out i've gone the other way now and have alot more negitive ackerman man, now, so gona put a stock engine xmember back in and slowly adjust rack position till i get to the 0 point. or as close to it as i can

06-12-2011, 01:13 AM	#2819
Patrick Bowering Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 32 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	PBM is out of stock and is doing a little reworking on there inners last I talked to them. I was on the wait list for a long time but then things changed up a bit.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode