Is Corn Ethanol All It's Cracked Up To Be? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

**administrator** · 08-10-2007, 07:57 PM

Production of corn-based ethanol has increased dramatically and there are no signs of slowing down. But there is a rising concern that ethanol isn't much better than gasoline.

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pablo180 · 08-14-2007, 03:09 PM

They forgot some of the problems that come into play with infrastructure. Currently there is only one Ethanol fuel station in California. Sure, you could say, 76 or Mobil could convert one of the pumps to ethanol. But I dont think they are going to be giving up one of their stations to a growing competitor.

Another problem is that ethanol is water soluble. This will be a problem with the states that have extreme conditions. Condensation inside of the pipes will cause turn into drops of water and BAM. The ethanol isnt so good anymore. All water must be removed from it unless you want to try and run your car on water. So this means that instead of having pipelines to transfer fuel, all of the fuel is going to have to be trucked EVERYWHERE.

Sure its alternative source....but damn its going to take a huge amount of work to make it happen.

0100 · 08-24-2007, 01:26 PM

They better make it happen it's almost like running race fuel, ok not C16 good, but e85 makes some great power.

snatch13 · 08-24-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0100

They better make it happen it's almost like running race fuel, ok not C16 good, but e85 makes some great power.

sure about that?

lonelydrifter · 08-24-2007, 03:41 PM

E85 can make good power. It burns cleaner as well. The only thing is you need a lot more fuel as opposed to gasoline. But if we can make it out of just about anything I think its a better deal. You can make ethanol out of saw dust and old fruit!!

drift freaq · 08-24-2007, 09:27 PM

The problem with the current ethanol infrastructure is the fact its based around corn. That is also used for feed for cattle and other farm animals. On top of that a lot of midwest farms are converting to growing corn crop for ethanol production rather than soybean and other important vegetables in our food chain the end result is not enough corn for feed and increased prices on vegetables due to lack of product. Which causes our prices on food to rise. This includes meat and dairy . In the end it could cause an inflationary crisis in our food chain and push us into a recession. This is economic fact. Now add that to the fact that even though these farmers are growing more corn for ethanol production we still do not have the production infrastructure to produce enough ethanol to meet demand. Add to that the protectionist trade pratice of taxing brazilian sugar can ethanol imports in order to stimulate corn ethanol production here and you have a completely idiotic misguided goverment idea. They are in effect using it to try and show they are doing something along with the effect that they have been bought off by the midwestern state corn lobbyists.
Now one last thing to add to this to drive the nail into the coffin of this misguided policy. Sugar cane is 8 times more efficient for the production of ethanol. Which basically means larger quanitities of ethanol out the same bulk weight of base ingredient. Its just fucked up policy and we can do better. Another one of George Bushs stupid mistakes.

scarecrow27 · 08-25-2007, 12:34 AM

yup e85 burns cleaner and gives a slight increase in power but it gives ur less gas milage and its no mistake that they use corn instead of cane one of bushes leading contributors supplies all the corn for ethanol

0100 · 08-25-2007, 02:02 AM

From the dyno runs I have seen I would say more than a slight increase in power. The only problem is it uses more fuel, who cares it runs cleaner, cheaper and makes more power.

drift freaq · 08-25-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0100

From the dyno runs I have seen I would say more than a slight increase in power. The only problem is it uses more fuel, who cares it runs cleaner, cheaper and makes more power.

The point is its not cheaper. The retailers are selling it for the same price as regular gas and its driving up our food costs. Look at the economic data its all there.

jdm538 · 08-25-2007, 02:22 PM

this thread came in perfect time i have to do a research paper on altrnatives to gas powered cars.

so far corn-ethanol is not the best way to save money. the funny thing is it actually takes more cost & effort to make and transport corn-based ethanol. it's not a cheaper alternative it's a cleaner one. plus if you dont know this yet there is enough oil in alaska to last us for a long long time.

i love the smell of c16

Silverbullet · 08-25-2007, 02:32 PM

its the fuel of the future. live with it. We should be greatful that our cars can run it easily with just a few changes of hoses and a retune. E100 is rated at 115 octane. Its great for performance... and hardly produces harmful emissions.

h23 · 08-25-2007, 04:30 PM

Main point of E85 is that it lowers our dependance on oil in the middle east, not that it will save you money.. Minnesota has a bunch of gas stations that sell E85.

drift freaq · 08-25-2007, 04:51 PM

both of you guys(last two posts) still miss the point of economic fact. Its inflationary at the current time. Unless the come up with a viable solution aka cane sugar ethanol, corn ethanol is causing an inflationary situation. Which if not put in check could push us into a economic recession. Its not the almighty saving grace, way of the future at this point. If you believe it is, you need to do more research on a cost vs benefit situation.
P.S. the statement of it hardly produces harmful emissions is false as well . It produces different harmful, emissions again do the research you will see.

silversr · 08-25-2007, 05:05 PM

I have to agree with drift freaq on this one, heres a very good article,
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...al_boondoggles

0100 · 08-25-2007, 06:27 PM

Whatever all I know is I can't wait to have clean race fuel 24/7 at the cost of 93 so yes for me it is cheaper and better alternative and that is all I car about. Have my 1200cc's and double pumpers on it's way!

08-10-2007, 07:57 PM	#1
administrator ladder Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 7 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Is Corn Ethanol All It's Cracked Up To Be? Production of corn-based ethanol has increased dramatically and there are no signs of slowing down. But there is a rising concern that ethanol isn't much better than gasoline. More...

08-14-2007, 03:09 PM	#2
pablo180 Zilvia Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Age: 39 Posts: 206 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	They forgot some of the problems that come into play with infrastructure. Currently there is only one Ethanol fuel station in California. Sure, you could say, 76 or Mobil could convert one of the pumps to ethanol. But I dont think they are going to be giving up one of their stations to a growing competitor. Another problem is that ethanol is water soluble. This will be a problem with the states that have extreme conditions. Condensation inside of the pipes will cause turn into drops of water and BAM. The ethanol isnt so good anymore. All water must be removed from it unless you want to try and run your car on water. So this means that instead of having pipelines to transfer fuel, all of the fuel is going to have to be trucked EVERYWHERE. Sure its alternative source....but damn its going to take a huge amount of work to make it happen. __________________ www.formula1.com

08-24-2007, 09:27 PM	#6
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	The problem with the current ethanol infrastructure is the fact its based around corn. That is also used for feed for cattle and other farm animals. On top of that a lot of midwest farms are converting to growing corn crop for ethanol production rather than soybean and other important vegetables in our food chain the end result is not enough corn for feed and increased prices on vegetables due to lack of product. Which causes our prices on food to rise. This includes meat and dairy . In the end it could cause an inflationary crisis in our food chain and push us into a recession. This is economic fact. Now add that to the fact that even though these farmers are growing more corn for ethanol production we still do not have the production infrastructure to produce enough ethanol to meet demand. Add to that the protectionist trade pratice of taxing brazilian sugar can ethanol imports in order to stimulate corn ethanol production here and you have a completely idiotic misguided goverment idea. They are in effect using it to try and show they are doing something along with the effect that they have been bought off by the midwestern state corn lobbyists. Now one last thing to add to this to drive the nail into the coffin of this misguided policy. Sugar cane is 8 times more efficient for the production of ethanol. Which basically means larger quanitities of ethanol out the same bulk weight of base ingredient. Its just fucked up policy and we can do better. Another one of George Bushs stupid mistakes. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

08-25-2007, 04:51 PM	#13
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	both of you guys(last two posts) still miss the point of economic fact. Its inflationary at the current time. Unless the come up with a viable solution aka cane sugar ethanol, corn ethanol is causing an inflationary situation. Which if not put in check could push us into a economic recession. Its not the almighty saving grace, way of the future at this point. If you believe it is, you need to do more research on a cost vs benefit situation. P.S. the statement of it hardly produces harmful emissions is false as well . It produces different harmful, emissions again do the research you will see. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

08-25-2007, 05:05 PM	#14
silversr Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Iowa Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	I have to agree with drift freaq on this one, heres a very good article, http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...al_boondoggles __________________

08-24-2007, 01:26 PM	#3
0100 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 1,581 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	They better make it happen it's almost like running race fuel, ok not C16 good, but e85 makes some great power.

08-24-2007, 03:41 PM	#5
lonelydrifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: florida Age: 35 Posts: 270 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	E85 can make good power. It burns cleaner as well. The only thing is you need a lot more fuel as opposed to gasoline. But if we can make it out of just about anything I think its a better deal. You can make ethanol out of saw dust and old fruit!!

08-25-2007, 12:34 AM	#7
scarecrow27 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York Posts: 121 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yup e85 burns cleaner and gives a slight increase in power but it gives ur less gas milage and its no mistake that they use corn instead of cane one of bushes leading contributors supplies all the corn for ethanol

08-25-2007, 02:02 AM	#8
0100 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 1,581 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	From the dyno runs I have seen I would say more than a slight increase in power. The only problem is it uses more fuel, who cares it runs cleaner, cheaper and makes more power.

08-25-2007, 02:22 PM	#10
jdm538 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LA/OC SOCAL Posts: 3,517 Trader Rating: (30) Feedback Score: 30 reviews	this thread came in perfect time i have to do a research paper on altrnatives to gas powered cars. so far corn-ethanol is not the best way to save money. the funny thing is it actually takes more cost & effort to make and transport corn-based ethanol. it's not a cheaper alternative it's a cleaner one. plus if you dont know this yet there is enough oil in alaska to last us for a long long time. i love the smell of c16

08-25-2007, 04:30 PM	#12
h23 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnesota Age: 32 Posts: 206 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Main point of E85 is that it lowers our dependance on oil in the middle east, not that it will save you money.. Minnesota has a bunch of gas stations that sell E85.

08-25-2007, 06:27 PM	#15
0100 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 1,581 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Whatever all I know is I can't wait to have clean race fuel 24/7 at the cost of 93 so yes for me it is cheaper and better alternative and that is all I car about. Have my 1200cc's and double pumpers on it's way!

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