lewisfk

Who gives a shit about Tomei USA, I was wondering what Enjuku, FRSPORTS, etc are going to do with their current stock of defective parts. Many companies would still sell them as original Tomei parts to make a profit, while others would ship back for a refund. Some companies would slap a lawsuit on there asses. Just my opinions tho!

spooled240

Unless those items were sold under the name or affiliation with TomeiJapan, that would be a tough case. We all just assumed they were (still) of the same entity and I'm pretty sure TomeiUSA knew that which is why we never saw a huge PSA announcing this. They knew it was going to do nothing but negatively impacting their business.

brndck

Might wanna ask THEM. Especially if you’re a customer who bought through them and had a cam break or an oil pan that leaks.

Not holding my breath for FRSport to do anything useful, but Enjuku will probably still be in business next year so THEY might give a shit.

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mav1178

Wow, I really think you need to re-read what I wrote.

When I said “they” I mean all the dealers. The only entity that cares is Tomei USA, and they turned their autonomy into “sourcing our own products and selling under the same brand name”

Your post illustrates my point and the fundamental problem: where are the goods imported from? People got so stuck on a brand that they didn’t even realize the logo changed long before they swapped out part numbers.

“Tomei” is just a name of a highway between Tokyo and Nagoya, and Tomei Powered Inc screwed themselves by not properly protecting their IP and brand. Tomei USA as a company has never changed hands since the mid-2000s (look it up, it’s on the California Corporation search website), it’s the owners of the US operation that changed how they sourced products.

The true unknown is whether Japan granted US full authority to source their own parts with royalty or profit sharing to Japan. All this reminds me of the split between Phase2Motortrend and Circuit Sports, they both carry the same parts now sourced from the same suppliers under two different brands. Tomei does the same thing except the split is across an ocean.

I know the players. I know who supplies them. I know the suppliers are told they are supplying two locations of the same company. I know a lot more about this than I wish to know, and I ultimately know that for dealers in the US, all they see is a brand, certain sales and profit margin per year, and that’s all they care. By taking the moral high ground and yanking a brand, it could be worth upwards of $1,000,000 a year of sales at 30+% margin for the top dealers in the US. I’m sure that’s an easy business decision to make.

Anyhow, don’t be blinded by a brand, that’s all I will end with. That’s what consumers are hung up on.

tricky_ab

Having been to their facility a few times, they do a lot in house. They even do certain Nismo cams there as well. Exhausts are done in Taiwan... after they figure out fittings in Japan, the exhausts are them sent to the manufacturer.

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RB25GUY

yeah i figured as much!

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Dcocci

At this point, if you cant comprehend that they were basically selling knock off shit to customers expecting the real deal, then its a lost cause. The main question here moving forward is wtf happens if you order a part a receive a “T” part? Can you return it for an authentic part? Can you flat out refuse it?

SupaDoopa

Appreciate the heads up but do you think Enjuku or FRSport or anyone gives a shit what we say/think on a forum that's been dying in popularity for years? Other people will still buy their shit and will continue to keep them in business because they don't know any better and companies will stock and sell it because the money is there. It's fine and dandy a forum is standing up against it but unfortunately, the name they've attached to their business is a powerhouse and an asset to their success. Until something public comes out to where Tomei JP puts them on blast, expect little to no decrease in their numbers.

brndck

literally that's what tomei JP did.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwInrMCF...=1xs9bdj1ybafd

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SupaDoopa

Well touche. I didn't see it as it was recently and I don't venture on social media as I once did. Good for them for calling out those who are trying to benefit from lower standards and higher pricing.

However, the previous statement still exists. Most people don't give a shit but at least it's being recognized. The 'real' distributors would make the conscious effort to change their brands list and separate the two so buyers know what they're getting and where they're coming from.

brndck

that's half the issue

Tomei JP cannot sell product in the US under the Tomei name, or Tomei USA will sue them for it, since Tomei USA has ownership of the name in this market.

I'm not sure if Tomei USA is still responsible for acting as a distributor for Tomei JP parts, as WELL as Tomei USA parts.

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SupaDoopa

I wonder if they can just us a separate entity or line. For example "X PARTS LINE" by Tomei or leave the 'by Tomei' part out and just let it run as a separate company but nudge to the public world it's still their product.

That's saying that it's even financially worth their while. I'd love to see what the income from US customers is versus the rest of the world.

brndck

NUDGE NUDGE
if you want an authentic tomei JP oilpan, you SHOULD purchase a Bluemoon oilpan
http://bluemoonperformance.com/brands/

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TheRealSy90

Hmm didn't see anywhere on the site to buy any products :/

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brndck

Shoot them a email or give Robb a phone call

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwvBwKvl...=1urynhyupzxdw

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MrMigs

This was before / after (just cam change). I think they're a Tomei USA original item, but so far so good.

S14 SR with T2871R, high flow cat + chambered muffler, 17.5psi boost, stock intake and exhaust manifolds.

Previously tuned with everything else the same, minus the Tomei USA 258 ponscams.

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SupaDoopa

*So far, so good.

Ryan_H

Hi all

Sorry to bump this but I wanted to pipe up. I recently bought the 258 Deg Poncams here in Europe thinking I was buying an authentic Tomei JP product. Much to my disappointment, and by chance, I discovered this is not the case.

I’ve been trying to figure these out for a few days and I have tracked the Tomei USA cams back to being the same as items offered from Real Speed Engineering.

I know nothing of Real Speed Engineering either, so now I’m just trying to find out if they make their own parts.

What’s worse is that my box clearly shows the Tomei Japan part number as well as the USA T number, in a manner that suggest they are a replacement when in fact they’re a deviation.



I feel mislead. I have no intention of running these cams in my SR now, despite the fact they are probably fine. It’s a shitty, deceptive (IMO) marketing practice that meant I haven’t bought what I expected to buy.

Now I just need to find out more about Real Speed Engineering.

mav1178

Real Speed Engineering, in a nutshell, is basically the Japan arm of Tomei USA. It's not as simple of an explanation but that's the easiest way to summarize it.

Most of these parts are not made in Japan.

Even a lot of Tomei Japan's parts are not made in Japan.

The only thing I personally don't know is whether the cores for camshafts are from the same OE factory supplier for Nissan, or OE replacement suppliers. Typically this is a minor point but everyone on the internet likes to pick apart everything, so any "failure" by a cheaper brand ends up being magnified.

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Ryan_H

Thanks for that information above. That’s sealed the deal for me then, they’re going back. I know Tomei JPN make their cams and that’s what I wanted, that legacy and that quality.

These cams I have may be fine, my issue is the disingenuous business practice that I won’t support.

Appreciate the clarification!

mav1178

Tomei Japan only machines the cams/cranks in house (and build engines), everything else is outsourced. Cams are ground from blanks supplied from elsewhere, so the cams are only as good as their supplier, which is a big unknown.

their facility in Machida City is not big enough to do anything else.

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Ryan_H

Maybe that’s the case but I would still trust Tomei JP’s quality processes based on reputation over a complete unknown.

Plus like I said, it’s a shitty practice.

Future240

This is why Zilvia is great. I had no idea about the split. Enjunku lists Tomei USA oil pan part number. No way am I trusting such an important part to what essentially is a knock off.

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mav1178

And that's also the point I have been trying to make... people are so blind to the brand (Tomei Japan) and overlook the fact that most of the parts are from the same factory in Taiwan or China but shipped to a different part of the world.

The reason for this is because when you buy from Taiwan, they invoice in USD which is a stable price cost. When you buy from China, they invoice in RMB but the exchange rate is somewhat stable due to policies by the Chinese government.

When you buy from Japan, they sell in JPY which is very much one of the major currencies that fluctuates based on market conditions. Anywhere from 1USD to 80~120JPY has been seen in the last 10 years.

I only know of two factories (out of 4 or 5) that supply both Tomei Japan and Tomei USA. Both of these factories are in Taiwan, and both of these factories make very high quality part. But if you only think about the split and not who makes the actual product, then you're kind of missing the point...

All of Tomei's head gaskets are made in Taiwan by a company who has been making OE replacement gasket for 30+ years. All of Tomei's exhaust manifolds are made in Taiwan by a factory who ONLY does high quality welding, the piping is sourced elsewhere. I can go in to these two factories tomorrow and buy the same product without a brand name for cheap, but selling them is a different story since everyone wants a brand and not an actual product.

Hint: if you look up Tomei UEL exhaust manifolds for the FA20 (BRZ) and look up who is the closest manifold on the market for about $200 cheaper, you'll quickly find that they come from the same factory I am talking about. Same with head gaskets, there's a brand out there that looks like a copy of Tomei... when in reality they are the original.

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Ryan_H

I appreciate what you’re saying, I really do, but I’m not missing the point at all.

Because I bought camshafts. None of those parts you’ve listed.

I trust their internal quality processes for the blanks if that’s the case. And I trust that they have the pride and aptitude to machine parts in house.

What I do not trust is a company that deliberated disguises the fact it isn’t affiliated with that brand at all yet trades off the multi-decade brand name with undeclared parts. And that’s what I will not support.

Ryan_H

FRSport appear to almost exclusively list T-USA part numbers too.

Future240

Alright here is my and likely other people's point.

I am going to use Walmart for example.

It is a proven fact and common knowledge Walmart gets tv's made with lower quality components to meet their prices. Those tv's are made in the same factory as the other tv's however, they are given different part numbers to show they are in fact not the same product.

Tomei JP made its name for being a quality parts supplier for JDM cars. Tomei usa sold those parts under the USA name. When the split happened, Tomei usa continues to use Tomei JP's brand name without the backing of a long history of quality. We do not know if Tomei USA QA is the same as Tomei JP. We do not know If Tomei USA uses the same materials as Tomei JP.

Tomei usa is basically using the legendary name of Tomei JP to peddle their parts which may or may not be the same quality as Tomei JP.

The worst part is Tomei usa didn't say a word about it. This suggests they are trying to hide the split which would be a shady tactic.

It's one thing if we know it is a blatant knock off that mostly works and may have a small fitment issue the user has to resolve (see isr) however again to represent yourself as something you are not is a shady business practice and one that I choose not to support.

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mx8270 owner here. It's the newer style one with the billet wheel, and upgraded wg housing. The kit came with everything I needed and made solid hp with reasonable amounts of lag. I would buy the kit again if I had to for the $.

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TheRealSy90

Even if Tomei JP and Tomei USA cams come from the same blank supplier, i'd rather have the cams that were final machined by Tomei JP.

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mav1178

... but that's only one part of the story.

electronics manufacturing has anywhere from 10 to 20+ vendors for the average television or computer, and the prices for some parts vary wildly from the vendor based on the quantity you buy.

most of the tech and consumer goods industry is based off actual inventory cost and sales projections for a time period. after the inventory is flagged as aging, sometimes manufacturers take it back and/or rebrand to sell elsewhere.

Costco is the best example. Most brands sell at Costco not because they want to shaft the consumer, they sell at Costco because this allows them to achieve the volume needed on the manufacturing/purchasing side to meet cost targets, whether it be running the factory production line to be efficient enough, or buying enough components from vendors to reduce the cost.

So using Walmart isn't a good example, because the motivation for selling products at a large volume for cheaper is to reduce cost of production and materials, not outright sourcing from different vendors.

I'm not defending Tomei USA here.. I'm just asking people to ignore the Tomei brand (as a whole) because most of the successful Japanese brands have long outsourced their manufacturing years ago, whether it be to 3rd party vendors or outsourced to cheap labor countries where they have factories.

Greddy exhausts are mostly made in Taiwan (by Remark). HKS are mostly made in Thailand at their subsidiary factory. Blitz has components made overseas and they do a semi-final assembly at their warehouse in Nagoya. It's been this way for a long time, you and I are just too focused on the brand to notice the changes made long ago.

If we want to have a discussion about shady business practices, we can all go to a bar, have drinks, and have discussions about other, bigger brands with way worse business practices than Tomei. Tomei's dirt only is in public because they were stupid enough to change part numbers and Tomei Japan filed a lawsuit in Japan against the Tomei US "office" in Japan.

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