steve shadows

But only a small percentage of those who buy the unit are going to need extensive support directly from him...

Don't get me wrong again, I think that Nis-Tune is a good unit, but I don't understand by the supporters on this board ARE SOOOO touchy about the smallest critisims, it's really suspicious.

The unit has great potential and is a good deal in the broader scope but limiting licenses, in my opinion is going to limit the amount of support and sales the unit ends up gettnig in the end.

Everyone basically is taking a hit for a few people sucking up his time.

It's not really a way to directly build in costs.

The other manufacturers would argue that their cost is R and D costs and the design and testing of the unit and that Support is free and soley dependent on how much time they have to get back .

Believe it or not even Haltech and Motec are not HUGE companies, they only have a few people stateside who are available for tech support at all...

I think it's just a trick way to force tuning shops and customers to shell out extra money for a "license."

This is not Hondata, nor is it Windows 2000. It's a product modeling itslef on DIY market.

I think it would be a lot more fair to the consumers if the basic tuning software was avaialble and did not need a license.

In the end the money will still be made on the "WorkShops" licenses especailly if there is more access granted with these Licenses.

Just a thought.

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SidewaysGts

Its not that were "touchy". The problem with your "smallest criticisms" from what I've seen so far is they were based entirely on your ignorance becuase you didn't take the simple time to properly research the unit (Ie: read the manual), and stemmed entirely from your own mis-understandings. All of which as far as I could see were addressed nicely by Matt Brown. Your "criticisms" have been nothing but false information. It usually helps ones case to know what they are talking about, before they criticize it. And the "supporters" would probably be a LOT more receptive to your criticisms if this wasnt the case.

After all of that the only real criticism you have left that I can see is that they charge money for their software, and you feel it should be free. I guess I just cant see the issue with this. Unless I mis-read Matt there, even if you buy it all brand new from them, its only 430 bucks. Can you list me some comparative systems for that kind of money? New?

Would you be happy if they included the software for free, and just charged 430 bucks for everything instead? It all seems pretty fair to me.

Dont get me wrong, I can see your concerns. Its just that when everything costs so little to begin with, i really cant agree. Even if you decide to re-sell the unit, the software lisence can go with it. The only people I can see this actually effecting, are people who wanted to dl the software and play around with it without the ecu in an offline mode.

steve shadows

You would also have to agree with me that the "preferred shop list" or limiting the "workshop" software to only shops - will also LIMIT the number of tuners who will be able to fully exlpore the potential of the Nistune units for it's clients.

It is a solution for the same goal and is a way to adjust fuel and ignition on a car but it does require a few things are additonal costs to the user:

I.e. Installation, cost of licenses and limitation on shops that can actually tune the unit withe full "workshop" package.

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sidewaysstarion

Here Steve, let me break it down for you in simple first grade mathematics

Nistune Single user license $200 AUD
Nistune Dealers license (also includes discount on hardware) $600 AUD
Nistune Board for SR ~ $250 AUD

Apexi Power Fc Commander (what is needed to tune a power FC) ~$300 USD
Apexi Power Fc Unit ~$1000+ USD
Apexi Power Fc Software w/ License ~$400 USD

Haltech... That is $1500-$2000+ (that doesn't include a custom harness for the car)

So lets do some math, so lets price out a nistune board and dealers license

$250 AUD + $600 AUD = $850 AUD
current exchange rate is 1.00 AUD = 0.827908 USD

so all of that would cost you $703.71

so now lets price out a nistune board + a license

$250 AUD + $200 AUD = $450 AUD = $372.46

so for less then half the price of just the Power FC unit you could fully tune your stock computer.

Also how dare FC datalogit sell their software, we should yell at them about not giving it away for free.

Oh yeah steve, you could get a nistune board + a dealers license for less then the cost of a Power Fc that you love so much and still have money left over to rent dyno time from your friend to play with it.

A good friend once told me, You have to pay to play, because there are no free lunches.

Also Steve as SidewaysGTS said in his post please give us an example of something that will do the same thing or more for less money?

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handinpants

I'm only stating from experience, and my wallet does not get bigger from any of my claims. I just know that I have a suckass $10 and hour job stacking tomatos, and i can't afford to shell out $900 for a power fc or haltech, then spend another $600 on a tune, its just too friggin expensive. which is why i sold my power fc without even trying to install it. bought the nistune board and paid for tuning, and saved my self some money i was able to still pay some bills...

so from a financial standpoint best bang for buck, definitely nistune. i guess i am kinda biased you know but I feel for every other low baller 240 owner, cause i'm in that boat.

if anyone wants to doubt my claims i'll take you on a ride in my car with it....

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hexdmy

Why should there not be a "preferred shop list" ? I paid for the dealer license, and I don't even have a Nissan customer base. I'm also not on the official "preferred shop list" as I don't think I have earned that title yet. The intent of the dealer list is so that people can find a shop familiar with Nistune, what's wrong with that ?

If Nistune only worked with Nistune hardware, I imagine they would have no problem giving out the software for free. Being that it can be used with many different hardware interfaces, it does not make any sense at all, as they would just be handing out all the hard work they put into Nistune with no return. Steve Shadow's, would you give away something that it took you five years to develope, and that you continually support and spend money on ?

Really Steve, although you have toned down your attitude somewhat, it is clear to me that you are still trying to slam this product, either because you have not taken the time to fully familiarise yourself with it (i.e. read and fully comprehend the documentation) , or you are just pretending to be ignorant. Either way, it's making you look bad, not Nistune, so I suggest again, that you stop this foolish behavior while you can.

4x4le

Im just going to get to the point. Im not trying to be a dick.

Nistunes business plan has worked so far, it has also made it world wide when that wasnt the plan at first. Why change a business plan that works? Especially when you are officially the 1st and only person I have heard of with such complaints?

They are not going to take business advice from anyone. I dont blame them either.

You never hear people using nistune be unhappy with it unless the real problem is on their end.

If you want to tune a nissan ecu for free download tuner pro, get a consult cable, a chip burner, a standard daughter board, and 2 emmulators and have at it, for free! You make the same tune as you can with a nistune board and software, its just not as easy and the software typicially sucks. Nistune does not add features to your ecu, it just allows you to change the existing parameters, just like tuner pro rt.
NOW if you want to be able to tune a nissan ecu easier, with better software and less hardware cough up the money for the software or shut up. Youve gotta pay to play. Nistune is a luxury. You can walk to dinner for free, or you can take a limo, but dont expect the limo to be free.

jeb1517

Wow I had such high hopes for this thread. Can we please get back on track? I have some basic quetions about Nistune and I was going to wait to see if they got answered, but that's obviously never going to happen so I'll just ask them.

1) Is the type of board you need specific to the engine only or does it have anything to do with the car? I have an s13 with a s14 KADE-T so would I just get the s14 KADE board (type 3)?

2) Let's say I know I'm never going to tune my car. Can I just buy only a board, install it, then just take it to a Nistune dealer to get it tuned using their license? Basically I just save money on software and cable and put it towards tuning time.

3) Let's say I do buy the board and the software. If I sell my car with the board still installed and get a different car, I just have to buy a new board and can keep using my old license? I can do this 3 times? is that what's meant by 1 individual license getting 3 address files?

4) Why does an individual license come with more ECU IDs than addresses? Is it so you can tune multiple ECUs with the same board?

Thanks.

kandyflip445

I think you guys are taking Steve's comments the wrong way. He's asking for clarification on a few issues he's seen/had. A few of them were answered by that guy from Nistune. Which is great. Notice he's not beating a dead horse about those questions.

Also notice, you "sideways" guys, that just calling names and saying things like "let me break it down for you in simple first grade mathematics" doesn't help people see the merit in this thread OR the product. I automatically think, "hey look, if I become a part of the Nistune users I can be a part of a group of dickheads!" If you have a REAL answer to a question then answer. If you don't fully understand where Steve is coming from then ask him to clarify his question.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong Steve, that his issue is not that he's trying to get them to change their operating model. I think his issue is that he DOES have experience with Nistune. His experience was that someone bought a second hand Nistune and couldn't get Steve to tune it like he would have if the person would have bought a NEW Nistune.

Now I know you can just go buy a new license of Nistune software. But I think that's kinda doing a disservice to the customers. If I had bought a Power FC or AEM EMS or Haltech from someone second hand then I wouldn't have to call the company to buy the tuning software to use it. (I'm assuming here cause I've never bought these. lol)

That's my .02 cents.

Let's try to keep it on topic and leave the useless name-calling and finger-pointing out of here.

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Phlip

Everyone,
Knock off the arguments and bullshitting.
Next time I have to come into this thread to clean up after people who apparently have no interest in constructive contributions to it, I am pinking people.

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hexdmy

[quote]I don't know if you read the previous version of this thread that was deleted, but I can tell you that it has been Steve Shadows that has been the "dickhead" here on this thread. I know that 4x4le and myself have tried very hard to answer questions (I should say false statements presented as questions) made by Steve Shadows time and time again. We've tried time and time again to clarify things for Steve. I believe Steve knows he has a following on this forum, obliviously he tuned a fair share of Nissans. With that in mind I can only guess that he believes if he repeats himself enough, people will actually start to believe what he's saying. It's crazy really, and I'm sick of it.

I think you might be missing the point that many of us are trying to make in response to Steve again and again. The Power FC, AEM EMS, and Haltech only work with their respective software provided by their manufacture. You cannot take AEM PRO software and tune a Haltech, Power FC, ViPEC, or whatever. If Nistune had made software that ONLY worked with their ROM boards, I'm certain that they would give out the software for free. NISTUNE is a universal Nissan ROM editing software which has a significant amount of development time in it, and that is being put into in currently. I don't think it is fair to ask Nistune to loose money on their product. I personally made the investment in the dealer license, because as person who tunes car on a daily basis for a living, I can appreciate software that works. People are complaining about the small license fee that they charge, heck, I've had to spend close to $3000 for just one of the rom editing softwares I have.
That's my .02 cents.

kandyflip445

I actually didn't know there were other threads.

Again, I think the thing about the licenses is about the DIY customer. I understand needing the support for the software, the time and money it takes to revise it and make it better.

What I'm saying about it is:

If you take a AEM EMS, a guy buys one second hand. Same engine, same car. He can go DL the software for himself and get going with tuning the EMS.

With the Nistune, if you bought the ecu second hand and the licenses were used by the previous owner, then you have to buy a new license.

This isn't ideal for the DIY'er that is trying to score a good deal by buying a 2nd had ecu.

I believe that if Steve really wanted to tune Nistune cars he would purchase the Tuner license. But I can't speak for him.

I think he's mearly pointing out the difficulty his client has had with it and would like insight to what can be done for those 2nd hand buyers out there.


I, BTW, am planning to purchase one near the end of this year. After moving and stuff is done. ><

I like the way the software looks, the price, and the growing community around this tuning solution.

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sidewaysstarion

All you have to do is contact Matt Brown at nistune and he can transfer the license over to you.

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handinpants

Finally, thanks phlip

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jr_ss

Just to clarify, you don't need a custom harness for the Haltech. They make a patch harness that allows the Haltech unit to plug right into the factory harness and use all the factory sensors. With the patch harness comes the harness for the IAT and MAP sensors. There are provisions to add other controls as well. Depending on what Haltech unit you go with, you're looking at $1300-$1700, plus the patch harness cost. You can buy a flying lead harness, but I only see that necessary if installing in a custom chassis, or a custom swap situation.

Like stated, Steve is merely pointing out an issue he has ran into. Having a maximum of 3 allowable addresses and 5 ID's does hinder potential secondhand purchaser's. Perhaps the new customer should have to transfer the license into their name (secondhand purchaser) for a minimal fee that allows them to reset the license procedure and have 3 fresh addresses and 5 new ID's available to them for use. This will protect Nistunes assets, and allow the new customer the chance for full access to their system if the first owner has used all the available addresses and ID's.

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steve shadows

exactly...

And also trying to help other dyno tuner shops who dont have a large customer base of Nis-tune customers but would like to support them in the case that they come to them for tuning of the unit without having to buy a SPECIAL set of licenses to be capable.

these are all perfectly valid questions about this unit.

Nothing is perfect and when a company or "supporters" who are directly tied to a product make massive claims as a tuner as someone WHO IS FAMILIAR with the product I have a perfectly good place to make a comment or a question directly about certain aspects of the unit. I am sure these questions being directly answered by Nis-tune have been helpful to other board members as well.

If you have ever followed me on here and other forums- I was extremely harsh on the AEM unit when it first came out as well, I have tuned hundreds of them now either remotely or on the dyno and eventually AEM worked out it's issues, the biggest being the CAS mis-fire issue, which it remedied with an updated CAS wheel.


I am looking out for my customers and believe it or not - trying to help nis-tune make it's product more accessible and easier to sell to consumers and tuners who would like to recommend the unit to even more potential customers...

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4x4le

Guys, you really arnt reading this thread. Im kind glad its hear because mine didnt get cluttered however I have a thread just like this that has been going for a while and most peoples questions are answered in it.

If anyone has any nistune suggestions just go to nistune.com and email them there. No one in this thread can change their business model for you.

Like I said, I have a clean thread with this threads same purpous. No need for this one but keep your crap out of mine.

No one with complaints seems to know how to read. How many times does it need said that the software can be transfered if the license holder agrees to transfer it and you ok it with Matt @ nistune first. That is free to do. The people with this complaint didnt read their user agreement to know they could do it, then come in this thread and say you cant do it even though NIStunes owners statment is posted in this thread specificially stating you can.



Answered in bold

SidewaysGts

Can you explain this special lisence a bit more for us?

kandyflip445

Thank you for restating that. I think I missed that in the reading, about contacting [email protected] to transfer.

I don't see these as complaints. They're questions that benefit the community to be answered. And isn't that why this thread is here?

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jeb1517

Thanks!

My $0.02: As a consumer, I would rather pay twice as much for something done right as apposed to half as much for something done wrong. In NisTune's case, I would be paying LESS than half as much AND it's done right. This is a very rare case.

I don't understand where people are coming from when they complain about licensing fees. An individual license and 5 boards allows you to have 5 TUNED cars at the same time. With the competitors' products, 1 ECU = 1 tuned car. How much would it cost to have 5 tuned cars with Power FC?

steve shadows

You have to buy 5 boards just as you might have to buy 5 pfcs to run them on 5 cars simotaneously. You are comparing hardware cost not software access being limited by licenses.

You should be saying if you buy 5 PFCs you can have 5 tuned cars, just as if you buy 5 Boards you can have 5 tuned cars.

On a Standalone ems you don't need any license or allowance for the software. You can hook up the laptop to any car with said EMS and just tune it after downloading the free software off the companies website. Nothing to hold you back no matter what car has the unit. There is no limit t how many units you can tune at all, it's infinite as long as the unit has free download-able or requestable software from the manufacturer.

Also then the only thing separating shops is who has the best experience with that particular unit. It's not based on who has the License to open up all the functions or who paid to actually get access to tune a customers unit if he happens to bring on in on the off chance.

Obviously the NIS-Tune boards are cheaper than EMS Standalone ems so this is a plus in the hardware department especially if you can have the install performed for a limited cost or if you do it yourself

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jeb1517

You didn't answer the question.

4x4le

Steve, the amount of time you have spent talking about how the software should be free you could have tuned 2 cars, which would have paid for your license and made you some profit.

Its cool, you have an opinion and your entitled to that. However you have already stated it and were tired of hearing it now. No one is forcing you to do nistune. If you dont fine, if you do your going to have to pay just like everyone else.

We all get bummed about lots of things. I was going to keep this quiet because i didnt want to bitch about another companys business model like you however im quite upset about this. Although AVP (me and andy) are #1 in US sales for nistune however we dont meet a rule to sell uprev. We dont have a dyno, we use a friendly shops down the street. I dont want to spend $60k on a DD when ther is one minutes away owned by some good people that i dont want to compete with.

Look up uprev and tell me what you think about that. Its a cheap cable and really REALLY expensive software. No real hardware. Should the cable cost 900 and the software be free?

steve shadows

I know if you buy EMS in volume you can usually get about 35-40% off list price, so probably about 825-735 dollars per UNIT car for brand new units (at least from who I talked to regarding wholesale or direct volume pricing).

If you own 5 SR cars per your example though... you would only have to buy ONE PFC and then just swap it from car to car and change the maps by simply loading a map in, takes seconds.

I have a couple customers who do this. They also do this with the a plug and play unit that (Starts with an H ends with a C) , you just buy multiple Patch Harnesses and one H*****C ECM. You can then use that ONE unit on your: Toyota, Nissan, Mistu, Honda etc etc, and can swap it from car to car.

So it's just one time charge of 1K and each seperate patch harness for each different make/model car is 150-200 bucks per car.

I am not trying to compare the Nis-tune on this pretex though. Nis-Tune is not a full standalone EMS, it is a solution for tuning the Fuel Maps and Timing maps on the Nissan ecus that is a bit more affordable than a ECU Replacement unit and I think it does a good job of doing this.


I dont really know what you are trying to say about uprev?

No pictures of what they are selling, I am assuming it is just a link cable to the ECU data port? and you can read or write directly off of it without needing any modification etc?
So they are selling an interface Software? Not a hardware stand-in?

Sorry I really am not trying to get off topic here but I am trying to address your point now

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4x4le

uprev is like nistune for obdII cars. No daughter board needed and highly expensive software. only hardware is a cable. I wanted to be a dealer but I dont own a dyno so I cant period. I cannot even buy a tuners license.

I was 1 wondering what you thought about $900 software and a cheap cable. Should the cable cost $900 and the software be free? (I was being a smart ass there)

Up rev is really cool, they have strict rules to even use their products and thats fine, I didnt try to change their mind because I know that would be useless.

All my point was is people will run their business however they like, especially when the money is flowing in good. It is hard at times for the nistune boards to even be produced as fast as they sell so were really lucky that the price is as low for it as it is. Supply and demand says they should cost more. Nistune customers love nistune and accept paying for the software. I used to be a customer of nistune, just someone that bought a license..... I never once felt as if it should have been free, I was actually happy it was so inexpensive.


We all know your stand on it, I can respect your opinion, but I cannot respect you being a broken record. You dont have to remind us everyday that you think it should be free, we wont forget that you disagree, I promise.

I know your big into stand alone tuning and coming from that background your used to free software. Software that costs is nothing new to ecu tuning however unless your using tuner pro, a chip burner and moats emmulator then its free. Check out the cost of tuning software to tune mustang ecus, dsm link, the stuff for evos, lsx ecus, even some honda ecus have a license cost each time you tune a ecu. Uprev is pretty expensive too and there are strict requirements to even purchase a tuners license. There is actually a license Im going to consider that is fully unlimited, made by another company for obd2 nissans that costs a flat fee of $2500!

The thing is if you eat the cost of the software (as a tuner) and the customer only has to buy a cheap board, or in some cases depending on the type of ecu they have dyno time only you are more likely to have customers come to you because they dont have to drop $1k on a standalone to end up with something for you to tune for them.

steve shadows

I am not talking about UpRev, they are tapping an etirely different market.
UpRev is not saying their product is a stand in for a Standalone EMS

If I had more info maybe I could tell you but they have a right to run their business however they like...JUST LIKE NIS TUNE DOES...etc-
I don't understand why all of you guys who are not part of Nis-tune are freaking out so much about a little bit of personal critism about Licenses.

I don't really know why it's like a bloodsport from your side of the screen you obviously have some serious vested interest that the perception of Nis-tune be nothing but puppies and kittens and daisies. And that's fine, but It's a public forum and people who want to ask questions and reply to others asking questions is what a public forum is. Just as I have been told by the mods, if you want something that is not a open forum of Q and As then just buy more advertising.

And I am not being a broken record, I just keep addressing the same questions or comments that people keep asking me over and over and over.
If you read carefully I think Nis-Tune does a good job of being a cheaper alternative and I am not knocking that part of the unit... and I don't know why I have to keep repeating that either...

If I were Nis-Tune honestly I would provide free software to ANY SHOP that asked for it!
This would encourage Shops to PUSH your product on customers instead of directing them to buy other units with more free software or support and would in the end be a much bigger advantage. Because your base is always going to be the CAR OWNER, not the shop owner.

This is what H*****C did when they first came to the US and it was a huge success. Give the Tuners the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing and that they will catch onto your product and suggest it and build a community online of fellow tuners of the system who share tips, information and even have a whole FORUM dedicated just to Nis-Tune tuner shops who have free software with full access etc.

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4x4le

The point blank answer to why nistune software costs is still the same reason, its not product specific. While you do have to have nistune to tune a nistune board, you dont have to have a nistune board to use the nistune board to tune with the nistune software.


Nistune dont state that ist a replacement for a standalone although many users do Q it as that.
UpRev defenatially does say its a replacement. I see their points but I see yours too, free software goes hand in hand with a standalone so thats still comparing apples and oranges.

(Me just speaking my mined here, and is not a suggestion im going to submit as its none of my business honestly how my franchise runs things)
Maybe a free license that is ONLY good for nistune equipped ecus and will not operate on a non equipped ecu would be a good idea if it were by request/application only for tuning shops.
With that said I wouldnt think it would be fair to paid license holders if free license holders got special pricing on boards or user licenses for their customers. I also dont think they should be listed as dealers, but I would see no problem with them being listed as a tuner.

There are many shops that have purchased licenses and even programmers but get their boards from us. They have no interest in emmulating or profiting on hardware. A free license to them may boost sales on boards possibly.

At the same time I think tacking on a price tag with software helps ensure the tuning shop does some reasearch. No one is going to spend that kind of money unless they make sure they know how to use it first. It would be really hard for people in australia to make sure people in other countries are qualified to use their software and if they arnt and a bunch of engines start popping when being used on nistune by bad tuners it could mean a bad name for nistune as a whole.

I honestly can see both sides, but the current way really seems to be working well as of now. When NIStune becomes a more "house hold" name for nissan tuning it would be a safer business move then to make it more open source once its more responsibly proven to the masses.


There is a shop here in nashville that charged a guy $600 for a tune on a nistune setup and it runs like total crap. Nothing wrong with the poor guys setup, the tuners just didnt do enough research (as well as the car owner possibly since if he would have googled he would have found us...). He has found us now though.

Anyways with that example, such a good shop getting a license for free would have been (and was) a bad thing. They used the customers software so it didnt cost them anything, and they didnt read anything about its operations and were un able to tune his car because they were learning while charging him at the same time.

darkhalf

hey guys... finally got my password working again. think the cookies were stuffing it up for me the other day

depends what you call a small percentage... and extensive support. it tends to vary depending on the customer and the problem involved. sometimes its a vehicle problem, technical issue and sometimes its something i have to investigate further on this end. there is still a lot more things we can discover with the lower level details with Nissan ECUs

Yes we developed our boards for the market of those who were buying EPROM boards and emulators. We offered ourselves as a viable replacement which was easier to use.

However the software licensing was based similar to those of 'flash tunes' used in many systems such as Uprev (Nissan), ECU Tune (Suburu), LS1Edit (GMH) etc which are based on a business model of pay per vehicle. You will notice these costs are quite high per vehicle, compared to our costs

However we wanted to offer individuals some flexiblity of tuning multiple cars, but within certain constraints (ie not to be taken advantage of by tuners who emulate/EPROM burn for many cars)
UpRev - Engine Management

Quote:

I think it would be a lot more fair to the consumers if the basic tuning software was avaialble and did not need a license.

More fair to whom? Most tuning software is either (a) pay per tune (b) per license or (c) incorporated into the cost of the hardware. We are (b)

Quote:

You would also have to agree with me that the "preferred shop list" or limiting the "workshop" software to only shops - will also LIMIT the number of tuners who will be able to fully exlpore the potential of the Nistune units for it's clients.

Yes it can be viewed as such. Its just our guide of those who are familliar with Nistune and request to be listed if they have a tuners licence. Not all our workshop holders are on this list btw. Some are still getting familiar with using it or havent asked to be listed yet (ones listed have approached us)

Quote:

If you take a AEM EMS, a guy buys one second hand. Same engine, same car. He can go DL the software for himself and get going with tuning the EMS.

License is transferrable, second hand is not a problem here.Got lawyers at the moment updating the current agreement

Quote:

With the Nistune, if you bought the ecu second hand and the licenses were used by the previous owner, then you have to buy a new license.

not true. Misinformation?

Quote:

Let's say I do buy the board and the software. If I sell my car with the board still installed and get a different car, I just have to buy a new board and can keep using my old license? I can do this 3 times? is that what's meant by 1 individual license getting 3 address files?

Just uninstall the software and it resets the ECU IDs. The limitation was designed so that workshops dont take advantage of the individual license (i know of at least one which does EPROM burns who uses Nistune individual license for commercial purposes ...)

Quote:

If I were Nis-Tune honestly I would provide free software to ANY SHOP that asked for it!

If you were Nistune you would be broke.... This is still secondary income for Nistune/PLMS. Costs of boards is high due to specialised components used and local manufacturing and its not something you get thousands of made in China. The boards are not a highly profitable item. If we were to increase board price to make it such (and include software costs) then it becomes more unattractive for those just getting the board fitted and car tuned by someone else or their friends. Some workshops just use the software for burning EPROMs so we only make a once off sale on software and then have to support them afterwards

If a shop wishes to tune a system, they can run the trial version which will allow them to do this an evaluate the software. They can use the inidivual license that a customer purchases or trial licence to do the job.

This is not an aftermarket ECU replacement. It is not advertised as such and it doesnt have the features to compete with Motec/Vipec etc. It is a system which provides retuning similar to re-FLASH based systems using our hardware and fortunately has found its place in the market

4x4le

Thank God your back on here!

Dark Half is Matt Brown from NIStune by the way guys.

sidewaysil80

i kinda feel like my question doesnt belong in here seeing as how all these super smart tuner dudes are slinging phrases i cant even begin to think what they mean. but real quick if i might be so bold as to inquire here...i went with the power fc djetro on a "race build" and it served its purpose beautifully. however a couple years later i went with a more streetable setup/s13 and was thinking about going with a reflash such as enthalpy or jim wolf. which brings me to the questions...

1. what are the pros/cons of the nistune system compared to a piggyback or more specifically a reflash (such as above mentioned)?
2. i know absolutley nothing about tuning other then my buddy has a shop that is quite good at it lol...so if i were to purchase the individual license and board, would he be able to tune my car/board as often as i would like? and from what i gather 2 more additional cars correct?

thank you (all parties) in advance for any information provided
-tim