NIStune Questions? Get them answered here! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

4x4le · 01-22-2009, 08:00 PM

Hello,
I'm a NIStune authorized dealer. I would simply like to be here to tell people about it and answer their questions.

Nistune is a software program that enables you to datalog and realtime tune the factory ecu with a NIStune board, a standard daughter board, or a calum board.

Let there be no mistake, I'm not on here trying to sell it to you guys on within this thread or advertise it and the purpose of this thread is not to contain any discussion of prices or where to get it from. My drift car has been sponsored by NIStune before I became a dealer of it. I'm not on here trying to sell NIStune to you guys, I just want to help inform people about it because allot of the information I see posted on the net seems to be written in a way that its easy to go over many peoples heads. I want to answer your questions untill you have a firm understanding about it.

Here are some screen shots of the software.

If anyone has any NIStune related questions I will answer them for you.
Also if you have any questions about other methods of tuning I can try my best to help too.

One thing I WILL NOT DO is provide any bin files or base maps. I see too much liability there and it kind of goes against the idea of tuning your own ecu, the reason we want to tune our own ecu is to get away from bench made tunes.
I also cannot teach people how to tune. If you have a nistune setup and are wanting some pointers I can help you there but I will not walk you through the entire process because there would be too much liability on my end. If your unsure how to tune but want a well tuned car, any good tuning shop should be able to make quick work with your setup.

Please use this thread for any questions you have about NIStune. It seems as if I have let too many other peoples threads get jacked because people want to ask me questions and that is uncool on my part.

I would also like to give everyone a free trial of the software! It may help with everyones understanding of the program or to see how it differs from what you use currently. This free trial can only be opened 1 time after you put in the trial regestration! So open it when your ready to look at it and have enough time. If you dont close the program, or power off your computer you can have it opened for several days. I had my free trial open for over a week personally untill we lost power at the house. That was a pretty good while ago however lol.

Any ways here is the link to download the free trial program.
Free NIStune trial
Download that first and install it and then download the rom pack.
The rom pack will ask to install in the same folder as nistune and select yes.
The regestration for the trial of NIStune is as follows.
name:trial
email:trial

I hope I can be of help to you guys!

HOBBS240 · 01-22-2009, 08:24 PM

Is NIStune a standalone or piggy back?

4x4le · 01-22-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOBBS240

Is NIStune a standalone or piggy back?

It is neither actually. Nistune is a software program that allows you to edit nissan bin files. If equipped with a nistune real time board, and certain other daughter boards it will allow you to real time your ecu. It would be more comparable to a standalone though if you had to compare it to one of your options.

HOBBS240 · 02-14-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4le

It is neither actually. Nistune is a software program that allows you to edit nissan bin files. If equipped with a nistune real time board, and certain other daughter boards it will allow you to real time your ecu. It would be more comparable to a standalone though if you had to compare it to one of your options.

So in comparison if you know much about the Evo. Is this a logging and a tuning software in one?? The Evo has Evoscan and ECUflash to adjust everything that they need to. Is that how that this program is?? But you say that it is realtime adjustable so does that mean that you would not need to shut the car off to flash and adjust?

4x4le · 02-14-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOBBS240

So in comparison if you know much about the Evo. Is this a logging and a tuning software in one?? The Evo has Evoscan and ECUflash to adjust everything that they need to. Is that how that this program is?? But you say that it is realtime adjustable so does that mean that you would not need to shut the car off to flash and adjust?

Sorry, I dont know much about the evo personally. However nistune is a logging and tuning program in one. The boards are not capable of logging by them selves as some standalones are capable of, but you can log any time you have your laptop hooked up in the car.

And by real time tunable, I mean whenever you have your laptop synked with your ecu any time you make an adjustment it is reflected immediatly on your ecu in the ram memory. In order to make it a perminate change for the next time you start up the car you need to hit the burn button before shutting the car off. Hitting the burn button is seemless and instant and will not effect how your car runs for even a second.

4x4le · 01-23-2009, 11:41 PM

Someone asked me a question in another thread and since I didnt want to end up steeling the guys thread I posted it here for the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endlessboost

I talk to Brandon acouple of days ago about a nistune for my ka and he was extremely helpful. I don't know much about the tuning realm of the sr or ka world but he took his time in explaining how some off the stuff works. I dont even have an ecu from him yet but he was explaining how good they were and i was SOLD! Il def be getting a nistune from him in the next week or 2. My only question is, if i get my tune somewhat good and bring it to a tuner to have him fine polish it can i just bring the software to him with all my user information and use his laptop? Are you able to install the software on more than one computer?

Some tuners will happen to have a license for nistune already. You can bring them the software too, no biggy. If they try to use it on other peoples cars, after a few times its going to lock them out of it anyways if it was just a single user license. I would not share my tuner version though.
This has made me think, and I think im going to suggest a new type of software license to nistune. Ill give details later.

*DALAZ_68* · 02-11-2009, 09:18 AM

got my Nistune, works perfectly, the only issue im having currently is running my UEGO on it due to my laptop being Vista...

Hyperterminal was removed in vista...so im semi SOL

HOBBS240 · 02-15-2009, 03:49 PM

Yeah that sounds pretty close to a standalone. But the Evo has two programs it has a logging and then a flashing software.
But this sounds like something that my friend would be good with since he use to have the evo.
Its nice that you dont have to shut the car down in order to tune the car. What Widebands will work with this? AEM, Zeitronix, or any others? lol can't think of the names of others.

4x4le · 02-15-2009, 07:14 PM

Aem and zeitronix work for sure, as well as Innovate. I personally use innovate widebands and love them. I have a customer that is having trouble getting his aem to work but its more of an aem/vista problem. You will have to be able to get your wideband to work with your laptop before it will work with nistune.

*slider2828* · 02-16-2009, 01:11 AM

Damn it, I broke down and got a PFC DJetro..... with a good tune on it.... sucks.... oh welllz

HOBBS240 · 02-16-2009, 06:21 PM

Ok so one more question. Since I have OBD1 what cable would i buy? Does it work with OBD1?

4x4le · 02-16-2009, 07:27 PM

The pmls cable works the best with nistune as nistune was developed with the plms consult cable although nistune is not "locked out" from other cables. Any high quality consult cable will work, if it dont work, you probably got it from ebay....

Type 1 boards dont need consult cables, just plug a usb cable right in your ecu.
We keep the plms consult cables in stock.

Syncade · 02-16-2009, 08:59 PM

I wish there were some authorized tuners by me

4x4le · 02-16-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syncade

I wish there were some authorized tuners by me

I would not let that be what holds me back.
There are many shops that tune nistune systems that are not an "authorized dealer/tuner". There are a few requirements that some shops dont want to waste their time in order to meet in order to become "authorized". Many of them dont want to sell the setups, they are just mostly interested in being able to tune a setup when it comes through the door, and you are some what expected to be able to move some product if you want to be "authorized".
So like I said, there are many shops that happen to be very famarliar with the nistune software and just dont happen to be reconized by NIStune Australia. Also, any decent shop that tunes standalones and various other ecu setups should be able to make simple work out of nistune. Sure they would want to read up on it just a little or play around with the program to get familiar with different things such as load limits, and how to scale the maps, but any decent tuning shop that has tuned MAF based systems should not have any trouble tuning the nistune setup.

landins13 · 02-24-2009, 12:50 PM

so for an obd1 red top sr20 which one would i order, what kind of cable do i need (standard usb)? and the appropriate software will come with it?

*DALAZ_68* · 02-24-2009, 01:05 PM

my HB has been sitting since i got NIStune...i picked up a daily...its mad at me for not driving it around...its awesome...ima post up a vid later in the week f how it looks when it connected to the car while driving

4x4le · 02-24-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landins13

so for an obd1 red top sr20 which one would i order, what kind of cable do i need (standard usb)? and the appropriate software will come with it?

For the red top you need the type 3 board. You need a consult cable. You also need a working consult port installed or your factory one wired in properly.

Some places sale everything all together. Some people sale most of it together and it seems like a good price untill you see that you have to get a consult port seperate.

We sale everything seperate.

landins13 · 02-24-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4le

For the red top you need the type 3 board. You need a consult cable. You also need a working consult port installed or your factory one wired in properly.

so im not entirelly getting this, i priced it up and its gonna be 550 in parts if i do the labor, plus i need a consult port added to the car, its an obd1 car with and obd1 motor and an obd1 ecu so why do i need to wire in a consult port to make this work, and how much is that going to cost, im just comparing price and function, because i can pick up a power fc for 550 and this is seeming to be more of a hassle then i originally thought.

drifter_for_life06 · 02-24-2009, 04:39 PM

yea, seems a little more involved now that it originally seemed at the beginning of the thread, either way im still interested....does a blacktop s13 SR require the same type 3 board as a redtop?

4x4le · 02-24-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landins13

so im not entirelly getting this, i priced it up and its gonna be 550 in parts if i do the labor, plus i need a consult port added to the car, its an obd1 car with and obd1 motor and an obd1 ecu so why do i need to wire in a consult port to make this work, and how much is that going to cost, im just comparing price and function, because i can pick up a power fc for 550 and this is seeming to be more of a hassle then i originally thought.

No, Im not sure where the confusion is coming from. Where did you get your prices from too? On our site (which Im not trying to promote but just using it as an example) the total cost would only be $510 and that would be with us doing the install for you. If your car is a 91-98 and the wiring harness was done properly your factory consult port will work correctly. If not its a simple couple of wires and we can throw in a port with your order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter_for_life06

yea, seems a little more involved now that it originally seemed at the beginning of the thread, either way im still interested....does a blacktop s13 SR require the same type 3 board as a redtop?

Trust me, if the swap was done properly it is as easy as shipping your ecu off to a nistune dealer and then re installing the ecu back into your car. I cannot be held acountable for people that dont do the wiring correctly and even then all you have to do is hook up a few wires. We send the instructions along with a consult port by request if needed.

Now for your question consirning the blacktop s13 sr, some of them are type 3 and some are type 4. The J4 ecu is type 4, all of the other s13 sr20det (red and black top) share the type 3 board.

2.5T_/<ouki · 01-07-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4le

No, Im not sure where the confusion is coming from. Where did you get your prices from too? On our site (which Im not trying to promote but just using it as an example) the total cost would only be $510 and that would be with us doing the install for you. If your car is a 91-98 and the wiring harness was done properly your factory consult port will work correctly. If not its a simple couple of wires and we can throw in a port with your order.

Trust me, if the swap was done properly it is as easy as shipping your ecu off to a nistune dealer and then re installing the ecu back into your car. I cannot be held acountable for people that dont do the wiring correctly and even then all you have to do is hook up a few wires. We send the instructions along with a consult port by request if needed.

I may be pretty retarded but I'm still confused. I've got a 1995 OBD1 so I know the factory port is there but I'm not sure it's properly wired? You said if the wiring was done properly my stock consult should work. My wiring was done well but I'm still not convinced my factory consult will work.

I plan on sending my board to you guys to have the daughter board soldered in. Could you guys also toss me a consult port just in case I need to wire mine up?

Thanks

drifter_for_life06 · 02-24-2009, 06:19 PM

i downloaded the trial....is it supposed to say "Trial Expired" everytime I try to open NIStune? It worked the first time I opened it, now I have to uninstall, then reinstall the .exe files to play with it again...is that normal or did i do something wrong?

On another note...I like the program...granted i cant do everything its capable of since its a trial...but thus far, it seems good/easy to use

4x4le · 02-24-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter_for_life06

i downloaded the trial....is it supposed to say "Trial Expired" everytime I try to open NIStune? It worked the first time I opened it, now I have to uninstall, then reinstall the .exe files to play with it again...is that normal or did i do something wrong?

On another note...I like the program...granted i cant do everything its capable of since its a trial...but thus far, it seems good/easy to use

Thanks for downloading it and giving us your feedback on it. I tried to give fair warning about it only being able to open up 1 time in the first post right before I posted the links and the free trial info. I honestly dont know what you will have to do in order to get it to work again without purchasing the program. Im sure the NIStune developers didnt make it easy however otherwise no one would ever buy the program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4le

I would also like to give everyone a free trial of the software! It may help with everyones understanding of the program or to see how it differs from what you use currently. This free trial can only be opened 1 time after you put in the trial regestration! So open it when your ready to look at it and have enough time. If you dont close the program, or power off your computer you can have it opened for several days. I had my free trial open for over a week personally untill we lost power at the house. That was a pretty good while ago however lol.

drifter_for_life06 · 02-24-2009, 07:27 PM

cool, thanks for the feedback. I feel stupid...i read you're warning and yet I still posted that....running on no sleep for the past 36 hours is making me loopy and forgetful

4x4le · 02-24-2009, 08:44 PM

No worries. I feel your pain.

I feel bad that Im trying to answer peoples questions as thoroughly as possible to my best capabilities instead of just giving short answers and having them figure it out for themselves, but I seem to be just adding to the confusion.

If anyone has any questions at all about anything please ask me to clarify anything for you. I will be happy to do so. I work with nistune setups everyday so even though Im not trying to be over anyones head I may still be on accident. It really is a simple thing and I may be over complicating it for yall.

SuicidnS13 · 05-17-2009, 09:54 PM

So what exactly am I going to need parts and all for my s14 which is running an rb20det? Im going to push the rb20 to its limits and then swap it over for a built rb25 long block still running the rb20 tranny, harness, ect.... Will my car need a consult port added?

bewst pewp · 05-17-2009, 10:05 PM

so basically it's like flash tuning correct?

GSXRJJordan · 05-18-2009, 03:58 AM

Nistune for RB25 (ECR33) any time soon?

4x4le · 05-18-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Nistune for RB25 (ECR33) any time soon?

This is from Matt @ NIStune.

Quote:

We are thinknig about doing a board for R33 RB25DE/RB25DET but it involves a fair amount of work, and the parts to interface with the existing 84 pin MCU on this ECU. It is a very difficult board to get started on and requires whole new firmware code to be implemented, whilst supporting customers with our existing product line. I will start drafting schematics once Type 5 has been finished and we have got the knock sensing functionality working.

If you are looking for something to get these going then we suggest either using a HCR32 Skyline or Z32 300ZX ECU with a Type 2 board.

And honestly he is spot on with using a z32 ecu. I honestly recommend that rb guys use z32 ecus because they are more common here in the states in case you need to replace your ecu. There is like 5 wires you need to change around, no biggy.

GSXRJJordan · 05-18-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4le

This is from Matt @ NIStune.

*knowledge*

And honestly he is spot on with using a z32 ecu. I honestly recommend that rb guys use z32 ecus because they are more common here in the states in case you need to replace your ecu. There is like 5 wires you need to change around, no biggy.

Nice, good tip! I'll keep that in mind as a cost-effective option when I go top mount/GT30, rather than AEM, Haltec, or PFC.

01-22-2009, 08:00 PM	#1
4x4le Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manchester, Tn Posts: 1,253 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	NIStune Questions? Get them answered here! Hello, I'm a NIStune authorized dealer. I would simply like to be here to tell people about it and answer their questions. Nistune is a software program that enables you to datalog and realtime tune the factory ecu with a NIStune board, a standard daughter board, or a calum board. Let there be no mistake, I'm not on here trying to sell it to you guys on within this thread or advertise it and the purpose of this thread is not to contain any discussion of prices or where to get it from. My drift car has been sponsored by NIStune before I became a dealer of it. I'm not on here trying to sell NIStune to you guys, I just want to help inform people about it because allot of the information I see posted on the net seems to be written in a way that its easy to go over many peoples heads. I want to answer your questions untill you have a firm understanding about it. Here are some screen shots of the software. If anyone has any NIStune related questions I will answer them for you. Also if you have any questions about other methods of tuning I can try my best to help too. One thing I WILL NOT DO is provide any bin files or base maps. I see too much liability there and it kind of goes against the idea of tuning your own ecu, the reason we want to tune our own ecu is to get away from bench made tunes. I also cannot teach people how to tune. If you have a nistune setup and are wanting some pointers I can help you there but I will not walk you through the entire process because there would be too much liability on my end. If your unsure how to tune but want a well tuned car, any good tuning shop should be able to make quick work with your setup. Please use this thread for any questions you have about NIStune. It seems as if I have let too many other peoples threads get jacked because people want to ask me questions and that is uncool on my part. I would also like to give everyone a free trial of the software! It may help with everyones understanding of the program or to see how it differs from what you use currently. This free trial can only be opened 1 time after you put in the trial regestration! So open it when your ready to look at it and have enough time. If you dont close the program, or power off your computer you can have it opened for several days. I had my free trial open for over a week personally untill we lost power at the house. That was a pretty good while ago however lol. Any ways here is the link to download the free trial program. Free NIStune trial Download that first and install it and then download the rom pack. The rom pack will ask to install in the same folder as nistune and select yes. The regestration for the trial of NIStune is as follows. name:trial email:trial I hope I can be of help to you guys!

02-11-2009, 09:18 AM	#7
DALAZ_68 not giving a fuck Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los angeles Age: 35 Posts: 15,080 Trader Rating: (104) Feedback Score: 104 reviews	got my Nistune, works perfectly, the only issue im having currently is running my UEGO on it due to my laptop being Vista... Hyperterminal was removed in vista...so im semi SOL __________________ LOL 240... whats better than 1? 5 1's ...lol PSN & XBL GT : Wh0pp3r68 CLUB LEXUS : Wh0pp3r

02-16-2009, 01:11 AM	#10
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Damn it, I broke down and got a PFC DJetro..... with a good tune on it.... sucks.... oh welllz __________________ Turn and Burn!

02-16-2009, 08:59 PM	#13
Syncade Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,250 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I wish there were some authorized tuners by me __________________ Jets > Cars

02-24-2009, 12:50 PM	#15
landins13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Baltimore Posts: 986 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	so for an obd1 red top sr20 which one would i order, what kind of cable do i need (standard usb)? and the appropriate software will come with it? __________________ NO HANDS IN PANTS!!

01-22-2009, 08:24 PM	#2
HOBBS240 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 52 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Is NIStune a standalone or piggy back?

02-15-2009, 03:49 PM	#8
HOBBS240 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 52 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah that sounds pretty close to a standalone. But the Evo has two programs it has a logging and then a flashing software. But this sounds like something that my friend would be good with since he use to have the evo. Its nice that you dont have to shut the car down in order to tune the car. What Widebands will work with this? AEM, Zeitronix, or any others? lol can't think of the names of others.

02-15-2009, 07:14 PM	#9
4x4le Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manchester, Tn Posts: 1,253 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Aem and zeitronix work for sure, as well as Innovate. I personally use innovate widebands and love them. I have a customer that is having trouble getting his aem to work but its more of an aem/vista problem. You will have to be able to get your wideband to work with your laptop before it will work with nistune.

02-16-2009, 06:21 PM	#11
HOBBS240 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 52 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ok so one more question. Since I have OBD1 what cable would i buy? Does it work with OBD1?

02-16-2009, 07:27 PM	#12
4x4le Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manchester, Tn Posts: 1,253 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	The pmls cable works the best with nistune as nistune was developed with the plms consult cable although nistune is not "locked out" from other cables. Any high quality consult cable will work, if it dont work, you probably got it from ebay.... Type 1 boards dont need consult cables, just plug a usb cable right in your ecu. We keep the plms consult cables in stock.

02-24-2009, 01:05 PM	#16
DALAZ_68 not giving a fuck Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los angeles Age: 35 Posts: 15,080 Trader Rating: (104) Feedback Score: 104 reviews	my HB has been sitting since i got NIStune...i picked up a daily...its mad at me for not driving it around...its awesome...ima post up a vid later in the week f how it looks when it connected to the car while driving __________________ LOL 240... whats better than 1? 5 1's ...lol PSN & XBL GT : Wh0pp3r68 CLUB LEXUS : Wh0pp3r

02-24-2009, 04:39 PM	#19
drifter_for_life06 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Freedom, PA Age: 33 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	yea, seems a little more involved now that it originally seemed at the beginning of the thread, either way im still interested....does a blacktop s13 SR require the same type 3 board as a redtop? __________________ RPS13: +.020" 2871r 264's AEM EMS http://enjukuracing.com/#_l_4s

02-24-2009, 06:19 PM	#22
drifter_for_life06 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Freedom, PA Age: 33 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	i downloaded the trial....is it supposed to say "Trial Expired" everytime I try to open NIStune? It worked the first time I opened it, now I have to uninstall, then reinstall the .exe files to play with it again...is that normal or did i do something wrong? On another note...I like the program...granted i cant do everything its capable of since its a trial...but thus far, it seems good/easy to use __________________ RPS13: +.020" 2871r 264's AEM EMS http://enjukuracing.com/#_l_4s

02-24-2009, 07:27 PM	#24
drifter_for_life06 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Freedom, PA Age: 33 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	cool, thanks for the feedback. I feel stupid...i read you're warning and yet I still posted that....running on no sleep for the past 36 hours is making me loopy and forgetful __________________ RPS13: +.020" 2871r 264's AEM EMS http://enjukuracing.com/#_l_4s

02-24-2009, 08:44 PM	#25
4x4le Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manchester, Tn Posts: 1,253 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	No worries. I feel your pain. I feel bad that Im trying to answer peoples questions as thoroughly as possible to my best capabilities instead of just giving short answers and having them figure it out for themselves, but I seem to be just adding to the confusion. If anyone has any questions at all about anything please ask me to clarify anything for you. I will be happy to do so. I work with nistune setups everyday so even though Im not trying to be over anyones head I may still be on accident. It really is a simple thing and I may be over complicating it for yall.

05-17-2009, 09:54 PM	#26
SuicidnS13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,479 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	So what exactly am I going to need parts and all for my s14 which is running an rb20det? Im going to push the rb20 to its limits and then swap it over for a built rb25 long block still running the rb20 tranny, harness, ect.... Will my car need a consult port added?

05-17-2009, 10:05 PM	#27
bewst pewp Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ga Age: 33 Posts: 41 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	so basically it's like flash tuning correct?

05-18-2009, 03:58 AM	#28
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Nistune for RB25 (ECR33) any time soon? __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

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