Kanye West and Jay-Z Auctioning Off Mutilated $373,000 Maybach for Charity - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

**Phlip** · 08-16-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WISH ONE

to each his own.... im not a hater.

I waited to respond, but JUST WHAT IN THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN?!!?
Because I don't feel that this album was even CLOSE to on par with what the involved were capable of, and speak to my opinion using their past as my reason, I am now a "hater"?
This is why I can't talk hip hop with most people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I honestly think compared to 99% of the shit on the radio, WTT is pretty good. is it either of their best work? No. But it is NOT bad.

Mel...
I HATE this argument. To say "well it's better than 99% of the shit on the radio" is the same argument that I make as to WHY they came weak as hell compared to what they could have done.

One song about how great being rich is
One song about how much being rich sucks
One song with Kanye talking about his dick

Repeat #1 & 2, then sprinkle the third element in at random throughout, THAT is what I took from this album. I stopped listening to it before the street date, after 4 days and 8-10 listens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

The albums I listed are far better then "radio smashes". a certain music connoisseur, moderator I hope will agree with me and back me up on at least that claim.

The albums you mentioned are more than the radio smashes contained, but the fact remains that the album that led to the topic of this thread has NONE of those redeeming qualities. I would LOVE to hear what 1999-2002 Jay-Z would do to the Otis beat.
The fact that he apparently can't be bothered to do so, and has not done so consistently since in several years is what irks me to no end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

He is also east coast biased. Therefore this argument can go on forever.

While me and him agree on many things there a few music selections we do not see eye to eye on.

Hey, just because I don't like every obscure West Coast artist that you do, and never particularly cared for Tupac anyway, does not make me biased.

Matej · 08-16-2011, 04:41 PM

It seems that instead of purchasing the Maybach in the first place, they could have just donated 400K$ to charity. The video and song would be equally lame whether it featured a new Maybach being cut up or not, and I highly doubt anyone will pay more than what it cost new for the rubbish pile it is now.

**Phlip** · 08-16-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It seems that instead of purchasing the Maybach in the first place, they could have just donated 400K$ to charity. The video and song would be equally lame whether it featured a new Maybach being cut up or not, and I highly doubt anyone will pay more than what it cost new for the rubbish pile it is now.

I made that same point talking to my lady about it this afternoon.
They're not going to even get the cost of the car in the auction

*exitspeed* · 08-16-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlip

The albums you mentioned are more than the radio smashes contained, but the fact remains that the album that led to the topic of this thread has NONE of those redeeming qualities. I would LOVE to hear what 1999-2002 Jay-Z would do to the Otis beat.
The fact that he apparently can't be bothered to do so, and has not done so consistently since in several years is what irks me to no end.

The reason for bringing up those albums was because it was said that they make "terrible" music.

WISH ONE · 08-16-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlip

I waited to respond, but JUST WHAT IN THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN?!!?
Because I don't feel that this album was even CLOSE to on par with what the involved were capable of, and speak to my opinion using their past as my reason, I am now a "hater"?
This is why I can't talk hip hop with most people.

Woah! Hold on , lol who said this was aimed at you, or at anyone for that matter? I'm sorry if it came off that way, my mistake.

Everyone has their own style of music, their own artists and their own opinions.
I have mine you have yours, I wont bash you or your music for liking what you like or bash the dude that likes Tech 9 just because I dont.
I like Kanyes first few albums, dont care so much for Jay aside from a few songs and freestyles, but I did enjoy this video.
I thought it was neat and I really enjoy Spike Jonze.
Sorry for any confusion, I am not trying to start any wars, especially not hiphop wars.

*TheRealSy90* · 08-17-2011, 03:14 AM

So... Why was the video removed?

HyperTek · 08-17-2011, 04:34 AM

They probably realized it will hurt the value of the maybach and decided to pull the video in hopes to do some repairs to it and scrap up any pennies they can get for it. hahah jk

Jay Z's early stuff was great. Kanye's early stuff was great. I just don't like the image they got now. I used to not care for jay z stuff until i got Reasonable Doubt, album is classic.

I'd rather hear them together on the radio, than the other shit they play... I would wish this would turn the younger audience to check them out, and eventually take a listen to their older stuff and get influenced on better hiphop.

Corbic · 08-17-2011, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So... Why was the video removed?

They realized they'd make more money selling it on iTunes.

Corbic · 08-17-2011, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

.

I'd rather hear them together on the radio, than the other shit they play... I would wish this would turn the younger audience to check them out, and eventually take a listen to their older stuff and get influenced on better hiphop.

If "youngsters" like this shit, they are going to hate their old shit.

*exitspeed* · 08-17-2011, 05:30 AM

My question is, what should Jay-Z and Kanye be rapping about right now? They talked about being broke, and selling drugs (not Kanye), and struggling to make it in the industry, they talked about the struggles of the industry and wanting to be on top, they talked about their rise to the top, and basically now they are on top. So they made an album about it. Should they both still be talking about how broke they used to be or how much they are struggling? The only way that works is with a conceptual album like American Gangster, which is a very underrated album IMO, but you can't keep coming out with conceptual album after conceptual album. Then you have Kanye who says, I don't want to release the same album as my last 3 and does 808's and more or less creates a new sub-genre of hip-hop and he's criticized by the "hip-hop loyalists" for doing something different.

Honestly, I understand where they are coming from. They realize that no matter what they do, people aren't going to like what they put out now so they said "fuck it" and just made the most gaudy album they possibly could. Then made a video that they just blew money on to show they could.

If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing.

Oh and track #3 is my jam.

Corbic · 08-17-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing.

And with all that money would you still be butt hurt South Park made fun of you.... Like 5 years ago?

"South Park had them laughing"

I guess your highlighting the problem with the "hip-hop" community in general. It just pumps out more of the same garbage themes.

Broke
Gangsta
Depressed
I'm Rich Bitch

Some how the Stones have managed to play for 50 years and I don't recall their evolution being -

"We are Broke but dedicated, hating on the haters"

"We are bigger badasses and more real then the Beetles"

"We're richer than you bitches, go fuck your self"

Sprinkle in some product brands so you sound classy and bad ass.

*exitspeed* · 08-17-2011, 06:24 AM

I didn't say that was the only kind of hip hop I like.

Trust me I miss 90's hip hop as much as anybody my age, and I hate most of the shit on the radio as much as anyone (ask my wife), but I still think Kanye and Jay-Z are two of the good guys. Even if this album isn't "their best" work.

VNG704 · 08-17-2011, 07:13 AM

lol, some you guys are making such a big deal about being a hater. If you are then you are. Why does it bother you so much? Quit hating then.

The current music is what it is because it's selling. The end. Doesn't have to be good, to you. Yea they all sound the same but what else can you rap/sing about? lol.

*exitspeed* · 08-17-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNG704

lol, some you guys are making such a big deal about being a hater. If you are then you are. Why does it bother you so much? Quit hating then.

The current music is what it is because it's selling. The end. Doesn't have to be good, to you. Yea they all sound the same but what else can you rap/sing about? lol.

Honestly though, shit doesn't sell like it used to.

VNG704 · 08-17-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Honestly though, shit doesn't sell like it used to.

Maybe that's why they aren't putting out the music like they used to.

koukidriver · 08-17-2011, 07:33 AM

Agreed ^^^^

**Phlip** · 08-17-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

My question is, what should Jay-Z and Kanye be rapping about right now? They talked about being broke, and selling drugs (not Kanye), and struggling to make it in the industry, they talked about the struggles of the industry and wanting to be on top, they talked about their rise to the top, and basically now they are on top. So they made an album about it. Should they both still be talking about how broke they used to be or how much they are struggling? The only way that works is with a conceptual album like American Gangster, which is a very underrated album IMO, but you can't keep coming out with conceptual album after conceptual album. Then you have Kanye who says, I don't want to release the same album as my last 3 and does 808's and more or less creates a new sub-genre of hip-hop and he's criticized by the "hip-hop loyalists" for doing something different.

Honestly, I understand where they are coming from. They realize that no matter what they do, people aren't going to like what they put out now so they said "fuck it" and just made the most gaudy album they possibly could. Then made a video that they just blew money on to show they could.

If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing.

Oh and track #3 is my jam.

And that, unfortunately, is where it is probably time to retire and do something else.
I mean, it is one thing to dream about having sold crack when in reality you were dancing on the road for Big Daddy Kane and make your real fortune off of the stories of the alleged escapades before anyone is the wiser.
It is another to piss your moms off dropping out of college, then lucking into the position of a lifetime and making a fortune producing music.

At the points earlier in their careers, there were things about them that were endearing to their audience by way of stories similar to said audience. At this point, no reasonable human being wants to hear how miserable it is to have made $14mil last year because Trey Parker and Matt Stone called me a gay fish. Not when people are legitimately worried that they might not still have a job when they return Monday morning. And therein lies the backlash for cutting up a $375k car to turn and make, what… 10-15k back in an auction?
Lord knows I have been a fan of both artists, but the fact remains that I have watched both of their careers softening in their latter years.
Perhaps Jay-Z would have been better served to stick to his original plan of dropping Vol. 1-3 and riding off into the sunset. Sure, The Blueprint and The Black Album were great as well, and American Gangster was “pretty good,” but to me someone with 4.5 classics (vol 3 was critically near-classic) in his first 6 albums, a “pretty good” album is a failure.
You know I have become increasingly critical of both artists for several years now, and I continue to say that when someone runs out of things to say in their music, they should shut the fuck up, lest they sully their legacy. People will remember Kanye West for kirking out like a bitch and Autotune more than his great music, they will remember Jay-Z for ruining Def Jam’s roster cutting up a Maybach and for Blueprint 2 and 2.1, and Kingdom Come than they will for those classics.

Yeah, I know that someone’s entire body of work is worth considering, but I would love for people to tell me that don’t remember the shit fights Mike Tyson took and the drugs/legal matters when they start talking legacy.
Who doesn’t remember Muhammad Ali getting HIS face beat in for 5 years too long?

A man could cure cancer and AIDS, swim the English Channel forward AND backward and save 50 kids from a burning orphanage, but let him fuck a goat, JUST ONE GOAT, and that is his life’s work homie.

*exitspeed* · 08-17-2011, 12:32 PM

I disagree with the latter part of your arguement. At least from my perspective. I have a very forgiving personality, and I always try to remember the best things about people before the shitty. I don't think Jordan was any less of a fantastic player in his prime because he wasn't when he came back and played for the Wizards. I don't think Tyson was any less of a monster and arguably the best boxer in history because he bit of a a holy ear. And with all the shenanigans Micheal Jackson went though with the children it doesn't make me feel his music or love it any less. As pissed off as I am with Favre, I'll love him again when he retires as a Packer.

I KNOW I'm not the only person out there that forgives and forgets. I didn't just make that phrase up.

The fact of the matter is, Watch the Throne is NOT a terrible or even a bad album, by your own admission. Compared to their old stuff, really to me it's just a lot different. Now compared to the other shit out there to listen to this is stellar. Yes, there are some albums once or twice a year that's about it.

And why should someone retire if they are still successful and loving what they do? Because some people think they should? Fuck that. I'd love to be as successful in my life at my career and love every day of it, and never want to retire. That is enviable.

It doesn't matter though because some people will like it and some won't. I like, I bought it. eh.

**Phlip** · 08-17-2011, 12:43 PM

By my own admission, the album is not bad. By that same admission, the album is not as good – not even close – as it should be or even as good as it pretends to be. It is okay at best, something to listen to and I have moved on from it.
I know I miss the time when music was competitive and someone brought their A-game to every album they made, instead of allowing a weakening market to allow them to not go all in. And god knows, when you have Wiz Khalifa, Big Sean and Drake all over everything, why SHOULD you even try?
I do not say that to excuse them for making music that is beneath them, I say that to chide the entire market, including EVERYONE who could be bothered to do better but won’t because they don’t have to.

*exitspeed* · 08-17-2011, 12:47 PM

For the record I do not agree with complacency. But under the circumstances (the industry in general) I'll take what I can get.

HyperTek · 08-17-2011, 01:03 PM

2pac's Jaguar and Hummer sold for less.. of course those vehicles dont hold the value a maybach does, but those would be better investments imo.

*Wake* · 08-17-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

For the record I do not agree with complacency. But under the circumstances (the industry in general) I'll take what I can get.

By that logic, kreayshawns - "Gucci gucci" is the hardest shit out right now. Lyrically.

**Phlip** · 08-17-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

By that logic, kreayshawns - "Gucci gucci" is the hardest shit out right now. Lyrically.

If people are trying to convince me that this Kanye and Jay-Z is good, then you're correct as well.

*Wake* · 08-17-2011, 01:20 PM

As I have recently discovered there are still small amounts of good music being made.

Just not from the same ole names, well some of them. The shady camp is finally back on track. I think Eminem just had to wait until everyone got their heads back on straight and started wanting good music again. However I was disappointed to hear him apologize to kanye. lol

You just have to wade through the dubstep and bigsean/drake clones that mtv is putting out. or just listen to MTV jams for hours at a time until they play 1 good song, then go find the album.

Cant hate MTV (completely) since they showed me slaughterhouse.

dontxploitme · 08-17-2011, 01:29 PM

Kanye West and Jay Z are easily two of the best rappers in the game. If you disagree you're either old, don't like rap or you're an idiot. And to the people who say they're killing rap all I have to say is what would be better? Lil Jon? How about solja boy? Oh no I know the rejects right?

Btw I'm talking about mainstream

simmode1 · 08-17-2011, 01:32 PM

^^^Their skill isn't in question here. The question is why they put out such a weak album that is far beneath their combined proficiency.

Its just because they can. And the mindless sheep will still buy & defend it tooth & nail just because it has both their names on the cover. No offense to anybody that paid money for this album.

To be honest, if their names weren't on the cover, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would just be dismissed & ignored as a mediocre album by mediocre artists.

*Wake* · 08-17-2011, 01:41 PM

As he is proving.

Why is Wale with MMG?

dontxploitme · 08-17-2011, 01:47 PM

i agree the cd isn't as good as i expected from them but i still love it. i would assume collab cd's would be hard to do though since there will always be different opinions on everything. someone name a better rap collab cd.

simmode1 · 08-17-2011, 01:58 PM

Jay-Z plus R. Kelly sucked too. Can't think of a better one of the top of my head buuuuuuut....

It's Confirmed! Drake and Lil' Wayne Will Be Doing a Collaborative Album! - on desihits.com

SHOTS FIRED!

On second thought... Best REAL Hip Hop collaboration CD, IMO?

Mos Def & Talib Kweli on BLACKSTAR and Talib Kweli with DJ Hi-Tek as Reflection Eternal with Train of Thought. Game over, young buck.

**Phlip** · 08-17-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

Why is Wale with MMG?

Because those exclusive Jordans he likes to wear are not cheap, nor are houses cars and potential children.

08-17-2011, 04:34 AM	#37
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	They probably realized it will hurt the value of the maybach and decided to pull the video in hopes to do some repairs to it and scrap up any pennies they can get for it. hahah jk Jay Z's early stuff was great. Kanye's early stuff was great. I just don't like the image they got now. I used to not care for jay z stuff until i got Reasonable Doubt, album is classic. I'd rather hear them together on the radio, than the other shit they play... I would wish this would turn the younger audience to check them out, and eventually take a listen to their older stuff and get influenced on better hiphop. __________________ Keep it Classy

08-17-2011, 05:30 AM	#40
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	My question is, what should Jay-Z and Kanye be rapping about right now? They talked about being broke, and selling drugs (not Kanye), and struggling to make it in the industry, they talked about the struggles of the industry and wanting to be on top, they talked about their rise to the top, and basically now they are on top. So they made an album about it. Should they both still be talking about how broke they used to be or how much they are struggling? The only way that works is with a conceptual album like American Gangster, which is a very underrated album IMO, but you can't keep coming out with conceptual album after conceptual album. Then you have Kanye who says, I don't want to release the same album as my last 3 and does 808's and more or less creates a new sub-genre of hip-hop and he's criticized by the "hip-hop loyalists" for doing something different. Honestly, I understand where they are coming from. They realize that no matter what they do, people aren't going to like what they put out now so they said "fuck it" and just made the most gaudy album they possibly could. Then made a video that they just blew money on to show they could. If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing. Oh and track #3 is my jam. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com Last edited by exitspeed; 08-17-2011 at 06:19 AM..

08-17-2011, 06:24 AM	#42
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I didn't say that was the only kind of hip hop I like. Trust me I miss 90's hip hop as much as anybody my age, and I hate most of the shit on the radio as much as anyone (ask my wife), but I still think Kanye and Jay-Z are two of the good guys. Even if this album isn't "their best" work. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

08-17-2011, 07:33 AM	#46
koukidriver Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Jerz Posts: 201 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Agreed ^^^^ __________________ http://zilvia.net/f/chat/354550-nothing-easy-build.html

08-17-2011, 12:32 PM	#48
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I disagree with the latter part of your arguement. At least from my perspective. I have a very forgiving personality, and I always try to remember the best things about people before the shitty. I don't think Jordan was any less of a fantastic player in his prime because he wasn't when he came back and played for the Wizards. I don't think Tyson was any less of a monster and arguably the best boxer in history because he bit of a a holy ear. And with all the shenanigans Micheal Jackson went though with the children it doesn't make me feel his music or love it any less. As pissed off as I am with Favre, I'll love him again when he retires as a Packer. I KNOW I'm not the only person out there that forgives and forgets. I didn't just make that phrase up. The fact of the matter is, Watch the Throne is NOT a terrible or even a bad album, by your own admission. Compared to their old stuff, really to me it's just a lot different. Now compared to the other shit out there to listen to this is stellar. Yes, there are some albums once or twice a year that's about it. And why should someone retire if they are still successful and loving what they do? Because some people think they should? Fuck that. I'd love to be as successful in my life at my career and love every day of it, and never want to retire. That is enviable. It doesn't matter though because some people will like it and some won't. I like, I bought it. eh. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

08-16-2011, 04:41 PM	#32
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	It seems that instead of purchasing the Maybach in the first place, they could have just donated 400K$ to charity. The video and song would be equally lame whether it featured a new Maybach being cut up or not, and I highly doubt anyone will pay more than what it cost new for the rubbish pile it is now.

08-17-2011, 03:14 AM	#36
TheRealSy90 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maricopa, AZ Age: 30 Posts: 7,679 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	So... Why was the video removed?

08-17-2011, 07:13 AM	#43
VNG704 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,575 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	lol, some you guys are making such a big deal about being a hater. If you are then you are. Why does it bother you so much? Quit hating then. The current music is what it is because it's selling. The end. Doesn't have to be good, to you. Yea they all sound the same but what else can you rap/sing about? lol.

08-17-2011, 12:47 PM	#50
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	For the record I do not agree with complacency. But under the circumstances (the industry in general) I'll take what I can get. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

08-17-2011, 01:03 PM	#51
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	2pac's Jaguar and Hummer sold for less.. of course those vehicles dont hold the value a maybach does, but those would be better investments imo. __________________ Keep it Classy

08-17-2011, 01:20 PM	#54
Wake Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, ca Age: 38 Posts: 6,699 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	As I have recently discovered there are still small amounts of good music being made. Just not from the same ole names, well some of them. The shady camp is finally back on track. I think Eminem just had to wait until everyone got their heads back on straight and started wanting good music again. However I was disappointed to hear him apologize to kanye. lol You just have to wade through the dubstep and bigsean/drake clones that mtv is putting out. or just listen to MTV jams for hours at a time until they play 1 good song, then go find the album. Cant hate MTV (completely) since they showed me slaughterhouse. __________________ S.P.P.S. Member #00 CoUpe LOve Member #00

08-17-2011, 01:29 PM	#55
dontxploitme Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ontario, Cali Age: 31 Posts: 991 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	Kanye West and Jay Z are easily two of the best rappers in the game. If you disagree you're either old, don't like rap or you're an idiot. And to the people who say they're killing rap all I have to say is what would be better? Lil Jon? How about solja boy? Oh no I know the rejects right? Btw I'm talking about mainstream

08-17-2011, 01:32 PM	#56
simmode1 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Addison, TX Posts: 5,526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^Their skill isn't in question here. The question is why they put out such a weak album that is far beneath their combined proficiency. Its just because they can. And the mindless sheep will still buy & defend it tooth & nail just because it has both their names on the cover. No offense to anybody that paid money for this album. To be honest, if their names weren't on the cover, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would just be dismissed & ignored as a mediocre album by mediocre artists.

08-17-2011, 01:41 PM	#57
Wake Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, ca Age: 38 Posts: 6,699 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	As he is proving. Why is Wale with MMG? __________________ S.P.P.S. Member #00 CoUpe LOve Member #00

08-17-2011, 01:47 PM	#58
dontxploitme Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ontario, Cali Age: 31 Posts: 991 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	i agree the cd isn't as good as i expected from them but i still love it. i would assume collab cd's would be hard to do though since there will always be different opinions on everything. someone name a better rap collab cd.

08-17-2011, 01:58 PM	#59
simmode1 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Addison, TX Posts: 5,526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Jay-Z plus R. Kelly sucked too. Can't think of a better one of the top of my head buuuuuuut.... It's Confirmed! Drake and Lil' Wayne Will Be Doing a Collaborative Album! - on desihits.com SHOTS FIRED! On second thought... Best REAL Hip Hop collaboration CD, IMO? Mos Def & Talib Kweli on BLACKSTAR and Talib Kweli with DJ Hi-Tek as Reflection Eternal with Train of Thought. Game over, young buck.

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