TheRealSy90

I prefer to make the bump stop contact the knuckle so there is less lateral forces on the tie rod when hitting the lock stop.

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Axel18

Thanks, i ordered new tie rods from gktech, locktite blue, a box of cotter pins, new tie rod ends (threads are done for the old ones). wont be able to test for a month but i think i learned a couple of things, thank you everyone.

zombiewolf513

you could also probably drill the nut(s) and shank, then safety wire it. It might be a little challenging but they for sure wouldnt go anywhere.

TheRealSy90

Also for what it's worth, I could not run any of the spacers on my gktech outer tie rods when i installed the GkTech v4 knuckles. The knuckles already drop the tie rod pickup point lower. The tie rod would hit my wheel (17x9). I had to remove all of the spacers from the tie rod shank until it was all the way up, and then cut off the excess length of the shank below the bottom nut.

When i replace them i'll just do a normal outer tie rod at this point since the bump steer spacing isn't needed or useable with the knuckle.

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mr.nismo.

Had the same issue with the same solution lol. And that was with 18" wheels.

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Axel18

Hmm yea i tried all the positions to check wheel clearance and it isnt hitting, i got an inch of clearance with my wheels. They really drop the pickup point way down.

All my tie rod ends shanks lost the threads sadly lol so im up in the stands.

Btw what kind of camber did Gktech users use? currently running -2 degs, used to run -6, i think im gonna go to -4 to compensate for camber changing to positive @full lock

PoorMans180SX

Yeah just get some OEM S14 outers dude. Ugga-dugga those nuts on and forget about it, haha.

-2 is too little for any kind of motorsports use, -3 to -4 is a good spot to be.

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Axel18

Yea, i used to have -6 -7, had perfect contact during full lock, but got excited to see my car finally with its wheels so straight and left it like that :P

S14rebuild

Funny im running -4.5 camber up front and someone said i was crazy thats way to much for drifting...... i walked away

I use to have around 6up front for wheel fitment and thought it was crazy/dumb

TheRealSy90

Positive camber at full lock isn't always a bad thing. You want front slip at high steering angles especially when you throw a big entry and want the front to slide.

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the_brownie1

Anyone running these Gktech Anti-squat reduction kit yet?

Bleakley

Piggybacking on this question.
I believe you’re able to run either control arm after welding in the brackets. If anyone could confirm that, I’d appreciate it.
Buying the brackets anyway and will find out eventually, but curious if anyone has already done it.

the_brownie1

I actually just installed them on my car this past weekend, but haven't driven it yet. I am running factory RLCA with energy suspension bushings.

mr.nismo.

I don't have their bracket, but they did instruct me on where to weld the original pickup point. Running their control arms.

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Marphie21

I believe that its highly recommended (pretty much necessary to run the aftermarket control arms with sphericals, or get the spherical bushing conversion for oem RLCAs. The relocation of the pickup point creates binding if youre not using sphericals.

There a guy on youtube that installed a complete gktech package on his car and even with the sphericals, the bushings are already at a weird angle.

Marphie21

Here ya go

https://youtu.be/Hk2hFyhhZaI

PoorMans180SX

The sphericals are aligned like that because of the way the arm is constructed. it's the same way on the wisefab lower arm.

You might be able to get away with swapping out the lower control arm bushings to spherical bearings, but I've never messed with it myself. There will definitely be some binding in the stock bushings as the bolts for the inner bushings now point in different angles. You could probably dremel out the rear holes so the arm was straight, then weld some washers onto the mount with the arm bolted in place so everything is lined up correctly. Does that make sense?

I know the next subframe I reinforce I'm definitely doing with the arms installed. Installing wisefab was a giant PITA after I welded everything up.

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the_brownie1

Yea that does make sense, I wished i did that, that arm definitely put on a fight going on, but it doeskin bind when i move the RLCA up and down.

ViorelP

Hey guys. New here. I am building an S13 drift car, and i have a few question. Maybe someone could help.
I bought adjustable solid subframe bushes from gktech. The kit looks like in the photo. The problem is that i wanted to have stock subframe position (distance to chassie). Any idea how to install this?

https://ibb.co/7bP7BDm

Thanks

Tulok

Camber and scrub vs sai

Effect of reducing camber at strut/knuckle interface: move scrub radius in.
Effect of reducing camber at top hat and increasing it at the strut/knuckle interface: move scrub radius out.

So what does each one actually FEEL like compared to each other.

My problem is I have a G50 Q45 that I converted to s13 strut. It doesn?t self steer that well. I am running the same wheel and tire combo as before -8 effective offset 18x9.5 wheel.

I tried increasing the scrub with more camber at the strut/knuckle interface and it was hard to tell what it did because I had a lot of camber and little grip.

PoorMans180SX

Your issue is you don't have enough caster. Excessive camber always lead to shit handling. Only run low caster if you have a knuckle with caster trail built in.

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PoorMans180SX

PoorMans180SX

Okay, so some more people have to be driving around with the gktech rlca mod by now. Post a review?

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Marphie21

Im hesitant to share my results because I dont trust my data 100%, but I finally did a quick check on how the dynamic alignment has changed after the RLCA relocation kit install. I have to emphasize that this was just a quick check, and I'm sure there were flaws in the way I collected the data. Ill split my post into 2 parts: first part will be about the "data" i collected", second part will be my experiences driving the car after the anti-squat kit.

This is on a KE70 using a full nissan underchassis, and only used for drifting so far. 230whp 1UZ-FE mated to an R32 RB25DET transmission, 4.0 final drive.

Data collection

Setup:

1. Driftworks Geomaster 2 spindles
   
2. Fully adjustable arms all around, except for the lower control arm (but has gktech spherical bushings installed)
   
3. Gktech anti-squat reduction kit

• I dialed out some camber and toe from my pre-antisquat kit alignment (from -0.5 to +0.5 camber, and 1mm of toe in to 0 toe)

Results during the (questionable) test:
i set up a simple toe plate using plywood and string, and jacked the rear assembly (without the coilover spring) up and down to see how the toe changed. I measured the distance between the edges of the plywood to the string I had setup.

-I was seeing some toe out under (3cm) of compression-- 1/4" just on this one side. The rearward part of the plywood went inwards 1/4", causing toe out.
-At 2cm droop, I was getting toe out again-- 3/16" worth. This time the frontward side of the plywood went outwards 3/16", causing toe out.

NOTE: I now realize that there were lots factors that might have made my data collection at this point inconsistent (i.e. not measuring either edge of the plywood toe plate at the same exact point, among other possible factors.)

I decided to lengthen the traction rod by 5mm to see what would happen. Lengthening the traction rod to 22cm (center of bolt to center of bolt) fixed the toe change.
-3cm of compression saw same measurements from the plywood edges to the string
-2cm of droop saw same measurements from the plywood to the string again
-4cm of droop started seeing some toe out (only 1/16")

In terms of camber, I didnt even have to setup a rig. During my test days, I started noticing that the inner part of the tire was experiencing more wear that the outside (hence why i changed my alignment to positive camber). Before the anti-squat kit, wear was pretty even throughout the the width of the tire. Jacking the rear assembly up and down confirmed this-- Lots of positive camber at droop and noticeable negative camber under compression.

Driving impressions

NOTE: Test days were before I did any data collection and before changing alignment. This means that I was using the same alignment settings as before I installed the antisquat kit

During the test days, I felt like the car was lacking a little power. The engine was bogging slightly more compared to before. The rear tires took a couple more clutch kicks to keep them spinning.

There was also less "gliding" than before, I would have to really get my line more precise and use more throttle to get to where i wanted to go. Usually for the "typical drift s chassis", you can let off the gas and the car will continue to wash out, gliding towards the outer edge of the turn. with the antisquat kit, it seemed to have more "Side bite", as the drifters call it.

All this made the car a little less fun to drive. I really felt that the power to grip balance was shifted further away from the "sweet spot". I still believe that I need an extra 30whp to get it back to the same balance it had before. The car was already underpowered, and the antisquat kit setup took that feeling of being "underpowered" a subtle notch higher.

One obvious difference compared to the pre-antisquat kit setup was when launching the car. I could now launch the car off the line with much more traction and stability. I used to have to baby the throttle after popping the clutch because i would lose 1-2 seconds waiting for the tires to telll me that they could take more throttle. Now, I can launch and continuously apply linear throttle off the line.

In hindsight, was the car harder to keep in drift during corners because of anti squat changes, or because of camber gain/ "side bite"?

Compeition

We switched to Sailun tires on the competition day itself as they were our tire sponsor. Unfortunately, it was my first time using the Sailun tire as the supply couldnt be delivered earlier for testing. These were 340TW UHP Sailun ZSR tires on the rear and 180TW Sailun R01 tires on the front. In terms of treadwear, the rear tires were similar to the generic china practice tires i was using, except sailun gave us a slightly wider spec (215/45 R17 practice tire, 225/45 R17 Sailun ZSR for competition). Fronts were the same size as the generic china test tires (215/45 R17), but obviously the Sailun R01 had a much better compound.

The whole day i was struggling to complete the first corner, a medium right hander with a sharp entry. I couldnt keep the tires spinning enough to trace the car along the outside of the corner. Lots of bogging down and consequential understeer. It was one of my worst performances in competition. We pumped the rear tire pressure to 65PSI and I stiffened the dampers in the rear hoping it would help me "shock" the rear tires into maintaining wheel spin. None of it really solved the bogging issues.

If I had to make any type of adjustment or correction in the first corner, I would surely bog down and straighten out. Example below:

https://streamable.com/t9kqx4

Conclusions and my own points for discussion

To put it simply, switching from the S13 to the S14/15 RLCA angle did add more traction. If i had to make up a number to describe the change, I'd say it made my car 10-15% "grippier" in certain situations, namely:

• Launching
• Clutch Kicking
• Loading up one side of the car ("side bite")

Seems like the changes are most noticeable during the situations where you're initially loading up the rear of the car.

This brings me to what i really want to discuss:

What are you supposed to notice with reduced anti squat?

You can be more aggressive with throttle due to the fact that the rear kinematics are able to move more freely, and in turn let the coilovers "absorb" the shock from aggressive throttle inputs?

Aside from forward traction, how exactly does this affect side to side load transfer?

PoorMans180SX

Thanks for sharing this. I think if we're all discussing our results then we can come together and share ideal setups.
I think what you're experiencing is exactly the things that less anti-squat would do. Does the car have sway bars on it? Sway bars affect side to side and front to rear loading more than most people think.
Side to side loading is definitely affected as the car squats more, it only makes sense that the car is more sensitive to loading the outside rear tire in drift. I think this is part of the reason people can get away with not having a sway bar(s) on S13's and why you tend to see them on S14/15's. Toe out is standard in bump on the s-chassis, and since your drop knuckles keep the factory kinematics, they still have this quality. I'm very interested to see if the wisefab kit I have maintains or changes this. I'll have answers soon.

Here are some interesting shots of the setup on Odi Bakchis' S15 (sorry for the poor quality zoomed screenshot):



And his S13.4 practice car (looks like he's using a cheap toe arm clevis welded to the bottom of the subframe itself):



You can see that the front pickup for the RLCA is dropped even farther than stock S14/15, it would seem to the limit allowed by FD.

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Marphie21

Does anyone here know how helper springs are used to tune suspension?

Aside from "their purpose is to keep the main spring in place"

I just want to understand it better. I can understand how it can be used to adjust the shock stroke in favor of adding droop, but how , why , and when do you use it?

Some thoughts on my mind:

1) Assuming that a corner is unloaded so much that the helper spring "activates" (it starts to extend), is the tire on that corner doing anything significant?

2) Or are you increasing the droop so that when that corner gets loaded again, the shock absorber + helper spring help absorb that initial weight transfer back onto that unloaded corner (before the main spring is activated).

I try to imagine a corner getting unloaded so much that the tire actually lifts up into the air. Now the way it reacts when it drops back down to the ground must be different if it falls straight onto the stiffer main spring vs. if some shock absorber stroke absorbs the drop right before the suspension stroke reaches the main spring.

3) Is it also used for when you want the car to squat down onto the bumpstops of the shock absorber?

PoorMans180SX

From the MCA Website:
Basically, helper springs aren't used to tune a suspension. They are there to keep tension on the main springs. This is why you don't see them on coilovers that are designed to adjust ride height with the lower perch. The springs are always slightly preloaded so there's no need for them. Only on setups where the spring perch is designed to set the ride height do you need helper springs.

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Marphie21

But thats the thing, ive seen them on pro drift cars. For sure ive seen them on odi's and james deane's cars. They run custom setups so there must be a reason for them to choose to run helper springs. Ive also seen them in option/ hot version videos.

They make sense with the "old" style of coilovers, or for KW-type systems, but Ive seen them on coilover setups with independent height adjustment. It also looked like there was enough thread on the strut to just use the bottom spring perch to secure the spring.

PoorMans180SX

Drift cars are a bit different, as they get air, hang wheels over curbs, transition off banks at high angles etc. These suspensions need more droop to take these kinds of loads smoothly, but still short springs, therefore they need helper springs and dampers designed to work with them. A lot of the cheaper coilover systems on the market (Sub $2k) aren't designed to work without spring preload.

It very much depends on how much stroke you need and what the ride height of your car is. This is why rally cars have super long dampers but still a pretty low ride height. They need the droop travel to absorb the impacts of jumps and ruts, but the dampers are sitting at half their travel at ride height.

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Tulok

You were right on both points. I actually had 1.5* of caster On one side I couldn’t believe my eyes. I did not notice that the tension rod had unscrewed itself most of the way within minutes of doing some practice drifts due to the wheel rubbing on it. The other side was not great either.

I dialed it back as far as I could to 6*, and added a larger spacer so I’m at -32 effective. And adjusted the coilover lower mount to reduce camber. And installed s13 lower control arms which are about 7mm shorter. So I’m sitting at about -4 front camber.

I have the Gktech v2 lower adapter on the low Ackerman setting.

It feels very good now, it’s easy to control the line and the front end has a lot of bite when I’m aggressive and it’s easy to widen the line and float out.

It feels a lot more like when it was stock just with a ton of angle, and more bite Which is great.