Guess we got some competition coming up

[boosteds14]

LOOKS LIKE WE GOT SOME COMPETITION -car looks good, for $19,999 its a steal with 220ft/lbs at only 2000rpm should make a mean street machine. 14lbs of boost stock and a 8.1:1 CR should make good for another few lbs of boost stuffed down it. Only thing is the turbo and exhaust manifold seem to be connected as one piece, but hard to tell right now. I could say that the downpipe from the turbo necks down alot, replace that and probly pick up a few HP right there. Shit for the price id think its one of the better sport compact values out there for someone who is concerned about street performance and give an ass about track. (no LSD ) oooh looks like a 5th injector on the intake manifold too! w00t! or ot could be some type os sensor
http://astro.temple.edu/~mermilio/srt/srt24turbo1.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~mermilio/srt/srt24turbo2.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~mermilio/srt/srt24turbo3.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~mermilio/srt/srt24turbo4.jpg

[ca18guy]

Engine looks nice, too bad its going in a neon. What size turbo is that anyway looks teeny tiny. Puts out nice numbers though.

[boosteds14]

well the numbers are good but for 14psi and 2.4L it should be alot more, it is because of the low low compression. 8.1:1 is too low, guess they wanted to cover thier ass from motors blowing up from heat. and that turbo is pretty small. dont know what size but i bet at 14psi that thing is working its ass off. i bet their will be alot of problems down the road with that turbo. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

[sykikchimp]

The neon SRT-4 is suppose to do 0-60 in 5.9 sec. Sucks that its a neon for sure. They should've used a bigger turbo. I wonder about the specifics on the turbo.. what size? A/R? manifold flange type? I'm sure it's internally wastegated..

edit - bore x stroke is way outta wack too. &nbsp;I bet it'll redline at about 6000rpm. &nbsp;I forsee MANY blown motors in the near future

[boosteds14]

ya its an internal wastegate, u can see it in the last pic. from what it looks like i would say it is a straight t3, but it cant be because look at the turbine side. so so small, problably a .48a/r

remember manufactures go for the cheapest stuff so they are problably also using a bushing as a bearing and cheap as turbine metal that will disapate the heat

[twofortysx]

Actually, that car is not competition for us driving stock KA 240s. &nbsp;It will burn our asses in a heartbeat.

But, as I always say, it may be faster, but at least I'm not driving a Neon.

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, that car is not competition for us driving stock KA 240s. &nbsp;It will burn our asses in a heartbeat.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

ACTUALLY it is because it is front-wheel drive
they loss traction as we hold our own

[thewholefnshow]

Eclipse runs 14psi, same power, granted there is more displacement, but dodge made it clear they aren't pushing the engine at all... but that is one of the most Unsquare engines I have ever seen, that thing is never going to be a high revving engine.

[Integraholic]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (boosteds14 @ May 17 2002,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ACTUALLY it is because it is front-wheel drive
they loss traction as we hold our own</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ACTUALLY it isn't because something that does a 0-60 in less than 6 seconds will completely destroy a stock 240. &nbsp;Your RWD wont save you here. &nbsp;Get your head outta your ass and realize RWD doesnt mean you can kick everyones ass off the line. &nbsp;My 0-60 is a little under 7 seconds and I'm running a tenth slower 60' time than Evil S14

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">edit - bore x stroke is way outta wack too. &nbsp;I bet it'll redline at about 6000rpm. &nbsp;I forsee MANY blown motors in the near future </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
IT states that it redlines at 6000rpm, problably want to buy the extended warranty!! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ACTUALLY it isn't because something that does a 0-60 in less than 6 seconds will completely destroy a stock 240. Your RWD wont save you here. Get your head outta your ass and realize RWD doesnt mean you can kick everyones ass off the line. My 0-60 is a little under 7 seconds and I'm running a tenth slower 60' time than Evil S14</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

get your head out of your ass-newbie
the thing runs a 15.7-(it could be a different car <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> ) i think i saw this in a MAG.
it will beat us- now doubt about that but we would put a good fight and will hang with it for the most part(definitly not in front)

also, i believe i never stated that our rwd will beat EVERYONE off the line- open your eyes and read for gods sake. we would get a better 60' time with lsd vs. the non-lsd fwd

[Integraholic]

edit: upon further examination of your last post, I have realized that it made no point whatsoever other than the attempt to put me down. &nbsp;Thus, it does not deserve my reply. &nbsp;Good day.

[sykikchimp]

IF in fact it does run a 15.7 1/4 then we are DEFINATELY in contention. &nbsp;This makes his point Valid. &nbsp;YOU quite being defensive about having a FWD on a RWD forum.



--I didn't even notice the 6000 rpm thing.. doh. &nbsp;either way, that sucks. &nbsp;Thats gonna limit the size of the turbo you can put on there due to spool up. &nbsp;if indeed it is a .43 ar then it's really gonna be pushing it at 14psi. &nbsp;Can't believe they would overbuild the motor, then give you a turbo that is about to run out of steam. &nbsp;Typical Marketing Ploy.. &nbsp;uggg.

[ca18guy]

I find it hard to believe that a car that car do 0-60 under 6 seconds, lighter or as light as a 240SX, and has 50 extra HP runs a 15.7 in the 1/4. I think you got the info wrong or mixed up somewhere, it just does'nt add up. Either way it's a neon, not worth arguing over &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[Kreator]

My guess would be that it got no top end ?? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
Also, with todays technology... I think 2.4 could be making that much power without a turbo....

[sykikchimp]

ok, well I did some research and apparently it makes good torque from 2000-4800 rpm using a t25 Mitsu turbo. &nbsp;This would explain quick spool up, and crappy top end. &nbsp;I wonder though... &nbsp;we have a 2.4l engine too, and a T25 is SO in-efficient on it, how could they make it work any better for theirs? &nbsp;Also the guys at Neon.org seem to think 14psi is the Max output of the turbo, not wha they will run from the factory. &nbsp;Personally from reading a few of their posts, those guys are in complete denial of the shittiness of this engine.


note.. &nbsp;the Manifold and Exhaust housing ARE one peice. &nbsp;suckage. &nbsp;

note2.. That is the same engine thats in the 250hp Razor Concept.

[DuffMan]

Neon engines aren't reliable in their normal form.

So mopar said "hey lets stroke it and add 14psi of boost!"

You do the math...

[transient]

That's a very poor design. I've taken shits bigger than that turbo.

[Tuck&Poke]

1. stop bashing the god damn neon its a respectable car. &nbsp;the earlier models had reliability issues thats true but they pretty much been all fixed.
2. its a factory engine how much power and how big a turbo did you expect they're gonna put on the damn thing.
3. 5.9 seconds isnt so far out of reach for that car were not talking about an insanely fast car...its just 0-60 in 5.9, not that hard to achieve with 205hp.
4. the turbo is not gonna blow up cause its boosting 14 psi... &nbsp;theyre not THAT stupid to put a part in a car if they know its gona explode.

im probably gonna get bashed for saying this but its getting kinda annoying how people keep makin fun of the domestics just cause therye domestics reliability issues.

[mistert]

well, the t25is the same turbo in redtop SR20DET's and black otp 180sx sr20det's. and they make a good bit more power at 14psi than these will. i agree 8.1:1 compression ratio is way too low. with the overstroked 2.4 it'll spool very quick and give excellent streetable power for what it's worth, but the top end will suck major ass, too, and it doesnt really make dick for power at that much boost. either gonna need a little more revs and a slightly higher compression ratio, or its gonna need alot more boost. it looks pretty cool, and im sure it COULD have some potential, but i doubt its that much more promising than GM's new ecotecs. oh well, we probably wouldnt be seeing this if it wasnt for mitsu's influence in daimler/chrysler

[BlackFox]

LOL, that's a neon, cool, when i first looked at it I saw the SRT, oh new SR engine heheheh, oops, well it's still not RWD so I won't be getting it &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

[AceInHole]

Dodge must be mad that the Neon's are falling in #'s at the AutoX while the WRX is taking over... (although maybe that's just around here).

Still... our cars are how many years older??? &nbsp;Older car = improve technology yourself <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;Then let's talk business

[KiDyNomiTe]

grr, i hate new cars. They are all fast. Espcially luxury sedans. Can't keep up with these things.

[blink0r]

If that engine is running 14psi stock without a FMIC, it won't last more than 50,000 miles. IMO, that's too high of boost to be running for a stock engine without a turbo timer.

[nrcooled]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KiDyNomiTe @ May 18 2002,02:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">grr, i hate new cars. They are all fast. Espcially luxury sedans. Can't keep up with these things.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree when I had the KA anybody w/ a damn Camary could hang. That's just unacceptable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

The engine looks pretty but when it comes down to it they made a long block w/ short possibilities.

The whole purpose of releasing the SRT was to get into the high end of the tuner market. Well the SRT engine doesn't seem to tuner friendly.
1. One piece exhaust manifold
2. Small turbo
3. Allready high boost
4. No 'cooler
5. Low compression
6. Low redline (turbos don't get lively 'til 4500-5500rpm)
So upgrading the turbo would be a pain in the ass
If you ask me they are really not helping out their cause. So the claim of trying to enter the realm of a "serious tuner" they entered the "hey we did the best we could" market
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ May 18 2002,05:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KiDyNomiTe @ May 18 2002,02:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">grr, i hate new cars. They are all fast. Espcially luxury sedans. Can't keep up with these things.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree when I had the KA anybody w/ a damn Camary could hang. That's just unacceptable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

The engine looks pretty but when it comes down to it they made a long block w/ short possibilities.

The whole purpose of releasing the SRT was to get into the high end of the tuner market. Well the SRT engine doesn't seem to tuner friendly.
1. One piece exhaust manifold
2. Small turbo
3. Allready high boost
4. No 'cooler
5. Low compression
6. Low redline (turbos don't get lively 'til 4500-5500rpm)
So upgrading the turbo would be a pain in the ass
If you ask me they are really not helping out their cause. So the claim of trying to enter the realm of a "serious tuner" they entered the "hey we did the best we could" market
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
there is a FMIC on the car. &nbsp;You can see it through the grill on the front bumper. &nbsp;Also, mopar is going to have performance upgrades from the factory. &nbsp;Not sure what these will be? &nbsp;considering it already has 2 mufflerless 2.5" pipes out the back, and an almost ram-air intake. &nbsp;Unless they offer an exhaust housing with a larger A/R then they are going to be choking tht engine. &nbsp;Apparently they went with the T25 b/c of money issues. &nbsp;From reading, it seems the engineers wanted to use a t03b, which would have been Much better. &nbsp;I think that is the turbo they used on the Razor.

This is from a mexican magazine that did testing on it:

"This is a summary of the reports published by "Automovil" and "Motor y Volante" magazines and newspaper "El Norte" in Mexico. The test was performed at 2,220 m above sea level. Far better performance is expected at lower altitudes.

Power: 215HP @ 5600
Torque: 224lb/ft @ 3200
Transmission: 4 spd auto(autostick)
Gear Ratios: 2.84/1.57/1.00/0.69
Final drive ratio: 3.91:1
Max. Speed: 217 km/h (135mph) electronically limited

0 - 100 Km/h (0 - 62mph) : 8.13 sec. (average from the 3 tests)
1/4 Mile: 15.89

Comments include: "Turbo lag is present in the low RPM range" (Automovil). "Engine's response is explosive once the turbo spools up to the point that traction control is almost needed" (el norte) "

Not sure about how to do correction for altitude. &nbsp;so.. if you could we would probably ahve a decent estimate of what it's capable of.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ May 18 2002,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KiDyNomiTe @ May 18 2002,02:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">grr, i hate new cars. They are all fast. Espcially luxury sedans. Can't keep up with these things.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree when I had the KA anybody w/ a damn Camary could hang. That's just unacceptable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

The engine looks pretty but when it comes down to it they made a long block w/ short possibilities.

The whole purpose of releasing the SRT was to get into the high end of the tuner market. Well the SRT engine doesn't seem to tuner friendly.
1. One piece exhaust manifold
2. Small turbo
3. Allready high boost
4. No 'cooler
5. Low compression
6. Low redline (turbos don't get lively 'til 4500-5500rpm)
So upgrading the turbo would be a pain in the ass
If you ask me they are really not helping out their cause. So the claim of trying to enter the realm of a "serious tuner" they entered the "hey we did the best we could" market
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
While it isn't that "tuner friendly" I find your critisim of the engine misplaced. They may have put a one piece exhaust manifold/turbo but most prior turbo cars needed custom manifolds for larger turbos anyway (SR's can't fit T3's or up on the stock manifold) Your small turbo complaint is pointless cause it's the same size turbo as the SR a T25. The no intercooler complaint is bad too cause most stock coolers suck, aftermarket will make up for that. Low compression is a good thing. The low redline sucks but it isn't that bad, it has the low end to spool a turbo quickly, it seems your comparing how the turbo on a SR reacts and assuming thats how a turbo works on all cars. Sorry to pick on you nrcooled it just seems like these would be common complaints among some to hide the fact that an amercain company is making a rather nice engine for a compact car. Atleast there (dodge) company was willing to put out a turbo model in a compact car.

[Integraholic]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ca18guy @ May 17 2002,5:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Either way it's a neon, not worth arguing over <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
damn straight. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there is a FMIC on the car. &nbsp;You can see it through the grill on the front bumper. &nbsp;Also, mopar is going to have performance upgrades from the factory. &nbsp;Not sure what these will be? &nbsp;considering it already has 2 mufflerless 2.5" pipes out the back, and an almost ram-air intake. &nbsp;Unless they offer an exhaust housing with a larger A/R then they are going to be choking tht engine. &nbsp;Apparently they went with the T25 b/c of money issues. &nbsp;From reading, it seems the engineers wanted to use a t03b, which would have been Much better. &nbsp;I think that is the turbo they used on the Razor.

This is from a mexican magazine that did testing on it:

"This is a summary of the reports published by "Automovil" and "Motor y Volante" magazines and newspaper "El Norte" in Mexico. The test was performed at 2,220 m above sea level. Far better performance is expected at lower altitudes.

Power: 215HP @ 5600
Torque: 224lb/ft @ 3200
Transmission: 4 spd auto(autostick)
Gear Ratios: 2.84/1.57/1.00/0.69
Final drive ratio: 3.91:1
Max. Speed: 217 km/h (135mph) electronically limited

0 - 100 Km/h (0 - 62mph) : 8.13 sec. (average from the 3 tests)
1/4 Mile: 15.89

Comments include: "Turbo lag is present in the low RPM range" (Automovil). "Engine's response is explosive once the turbo spools up to the point that traction control is almost needed" (el norte) "

Not sure about how to do correction for altitude. &nbsp;so.. if you could we would probably ahve a decent estimate of what it's capable of.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
integraholic-- i rest my case <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[CrazyGoofyWeirdGuy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ May 18 2002,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree when I had the KA anybody w/ a damn Camary could hang. That's just unacceptable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>



......</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Something wrong with a Camry? &nbsp;Mind you I am still a Camry owner, and there is one thing about that engine. The 5SFE 2.2L I4 engine, no matter how overlooked by "tuners" is a VERY strong ass engine. 173,000 miles later and still no mechanical problems. &nbsp;But note this, the Camry can also carry a V-6, which is the only Camry engine thus far to gain acceptance from tuners. Kuruma and TRD made a supercharger which give the V-6 quite a kick.


sorry, still lovin the Camrys

[wherezmytofu]

hahahahahhahahha....unlike popular believe not ever1 cares abour drag racing...in top speedin the car is gunna flip like a mofo and in track that neon is nuhting but a grass eater...comeon it's like the thornado turbo kit for a satern... weak sause is weak sause anyway u do it...........also that weak tranny is sure 2 make sure the car stays slow &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[nrcooled]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CrazyGoofyWeirdGuy @ May 18 2002,4:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ May 18 2002,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree when I had the KA anybody w/ a damn Camary could hang. That's just unacceptable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>



......</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Something wrong with a Camry? Mind you I am still a Camry owner, and there is one thing about that engine. The 5SFE 2.2L I4 engine, no matter how overlooked by "tuners" is a VERY strong ass engine. 173,000 miles later and still no mechanical problems. But note this, the Camry can also carry a V-6, which is the only Camry engine thus far to gain acceptance from tuners. Kuruma and TRD made a supercharger which give the V-6 quite a kick.


sorry, still lovin the Camrys</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well nothing as long as your not racing one w/ the KA <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I also have a camary 91 (doesn't run though) Currently in the middle of an engine swap

On the first engine a valve decided to no longer open up and well somehow a cylinder got starved of oil grabbed onto the piston and sent a rod straight through the block. So when I get the engine out if anyone is interested in a Camary short block w/ a golf ball sized hole in the side of it is more than welcome to take it off my hands <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
BTW the engine had 220k

[Tuck&Poke]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wherezmytofu @ May 17 2002,10:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hahahahahhahahha....unlike popular believe not ever1 cares abour drag racing...in top speedin the car is gunna flip like a mofo and in track that neon is nuhting but a grass eater...comeon it's like the thornado turbo kit for a satern... weak sause is weak sause anyway u do it...........also that weak tranny is sure 2 make sure the car stays slow <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey toe fucker your bitching about a car that isnt even out yet...how do you know that tranny sux...iirc its all new and about it being a bad handler...you pulled that outa your ass too <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (minime686 @ May 23 2002,8:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--wherezmytofu+May 17 2002,10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wherezmytofu @ May 17 2002,10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>7)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hahahahahhahahha....unlike popular believe not ever1 cares abour drag racing...in top speedin the car is gunna flip like a mofo and in track that neon is nuhting but a grass eater...comeon it's like the thornado turbo kit for a satern... weak sause is weak sause anyway u do it...........also that weak tranny is sure 2 make sure the car stays slow <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey toe fucker your bitching about a car that isnt even out yet...how do you know that tranny sux...iirc its all new and about it being a bad handler...you pulled that outa your ass too <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hahahahahahhahahaha......lets hab a freindly bet...$20 that he tranny is gunna bet mote....comeone...it's stilla neon...how much engineer and $ do u think they r gunna but into a car like a neon...hahahahahhahahaha <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>