Would you.. turbo KA or SR20?

[kroos268]

Some of the turbo kits I see online cost 3K, closing in on SR20DET costs. Is the KA worth putting on the turbo - is it problematic? My KA has been taken well care of, and with 150k miles it has lots of life left.

steve
south carolina s14.5

[Lurkable]

$1500-$2000 sr20 engine or front clip.
+$1000 labor = $3000.

If you have a good condition KA, turbo that, but it's alot cheaper to put a kit together yourself (doesn't have to be all crappy junkyard/used parts). KA-T kits are just overpriced...

...Of course there's alot more to it than that. You have to decide what your goals are for the engine you want to have in your car (what type of driving, hp goals, etc), and do the research on both options. But I think either way you go, you'll end up spending the same amount of money.

[Ghettokracker71]

I like them both,but I really like KA-ts that are done right,...


My vote is KA-t,simple because its not a bandwagon standard sr swap

[Irukandji]

Honestly, it depends on the engine

if you can find a KA in good condition, then go for the KA-t, its more bang for the buck
however, if all t he KAs you find are high mileage, or abused, then just get an SR

Most people say "well its only got 35k miles on it!"..

well... some KA's have been gently driven 150k and will last much longer than an SR that was beat to crap for 35k.

ugh thats just a little of what i have to say


whichever route you decide to go, be sure to be picky when buying a motor/kit

[SR240DET]

ok first.. dont get one or the other because its bandwagon bullshit.... its about personal preference, knowledge, and best bang for the buck depending on your goal....

for example... i chose the ka turbo because one... parts are cheaper for me... i know my away around the ka better than the sr (tear it apart and put it back together withouth looking at the FSM)

my goal with this engine is just a autocross/dail driver... t28 is a perfect match for what i do....

the engines are both similar as far as performance... in the end... your going to have to decide what route will better suit your needs...

check out this forum and ka-t.org.... so you can figure out

[datboibrad]

ok first.. dont get one or the other because its bandwagon bullshit.... its about personal preference, knowledge, and best bang for the buck depending on your goal....

for example... i chose the ka turbo because one... parts are cheaper for me... i know my away around the ka better than the sr (tear it apart and put it back together withouth looking at the FSM)

my goal with this engine is just a autocross/dail driver... t28 is a perfect match for what i do....

the engines are both similar as far as performance... in the end... your going to have to decide what route will better suit your needs...

check out this forum and ka-t.org.... so you can figure out
wow and here i was thinking i wouldnt agree with anyone in this thread but you hit the nail on the head. its not about the bandwagon garbage its about what your familiar or comfortable with. i went SR in my 240 for the simple fact my SOHC KA was blown and hunting down a good KA was a waste of time. also the price of parts and custom doing everything adds up and cost almost more time then money. i wasnt ready to shell out crackhead amounts for used parts to peice together a turbo kit nor was i ready for months of downtime. then have to pay to get it tuned. so SR was right up my ally. Direct bolt in swap with aftermarket that IMO is far superior then the KA which parts are proven to work. another key reason is the overall weight difference. SR swapped 240's have a very close weight distrubtion from front to back. somewhere around 51/49 which is important in most types of racing i/e road racing which i plan on doing. and finally the biggest reason was that i wanted a motor i could put down 300-350whp daily without having to open the block and worrying if my rods are having a bad day and decide to take out a cylinder wall

[datboibrad]

Most people say "well its only got 35k miles on it!"..

well... some KA's have been gently driven 150k and will last much longer than an SR that was beat to crap for 35k.

also what kind of statement is this. any turbo'd powerplant is going to suffer more than an NA motor mile for mile. any sr with 35k mile has seen more abuse then a 35k mile KA due to the fact it makes more power.

its pretty hard to beat the dog shit out of your KA when it only makes 140 whp :p

also when you add a turbo to a KA you think the abuse level is going to stay the same? its going to worse then a stock SR no matter how you tune it. it wasnt originally intended to be turbo and has internals that dont meet those requirements very well. i know all of you have heard this 9234809234 times but fact remains the same.

also on a side note. why throw in the labor cost of SR swaps in your arguements but fail to leave out the cost of paying Jim Bob to fab up numerous things for your KAT project i/e oil return line fitting on oil pan, intercooler piping, oil lines etc.

[Ghettokracker71]

The only reason I mentioned bandwagon is that EVERY ricer who gets a 240 for being a 240 gets an SR,if your gonna spend that much money,why not be a little more unqiue? Just like a B16 swapped civic,who the hell cares? everybody and their sister has one,a turbo d16 civic? nice.

Do what you want,I cant lie the idea of a lower mileage motor w/lower mileage tranny (sr swap) does sound nice.

[Irukandji]

also what kind of statement is this. any turbo'd powerplant is going to suffer more than an NA motor mile for mile. any sr with 35k mile has seen more abuse then a 35k mile KA due to the fact it makes more power.

its pretty hard to beat the dog shit out of your KA when it only makes 140 whp :p

also when you add a turbo to a KA you think the abuse level is going to stay the same? its going to worse then a stock SR no matter how you tune it. it wasnt originally intended to be turbo and has internals that dont meet those requirements very well. i know all of you have heard this 9234809234 times but fact remains the same.

also on a side note. why throw in the labor cost of SR swaps in your arguements but fail to leave out the cost of paying Jim Bob to fab up numerous things for your KAT project i/e oil return line fitting on oil pan, intercooler piping, oil lines etc.

first of all,
your first statement is only agreeing with what I said, so technically you're supporting my claim.


second,
its easy to beat the crap out of a motor regardless of horsepower, even an engine with 5 horsepower has physical limitations

lastly,
you have no argument. everything you say either goes with what I said, or argues something I never even mentioned.


you're pissing in the wind

[NemeGuero]

Get an SR. Half the people who turbo KA's don't do it right, and sell it down the line. If you're looking for something cheap, go SR.

[CHARLIE2020]

Im gonna go the KA24DE(T) route for now since my engine is still strong with 167,000 on it plus I came across a free S13 T25 and 370cc injectors for helping a friend drop a SR20DET into a Datsun 510 and other engine work so what the hell only shit I need is a FMIC and piping and exhaust KAT manifold and i'll be using an Apex SAFC II, shouldn't cost shit to make this thing run well. Turbo Nissan's aren't new to me at all so I know what im doing although I know the SR20DET inside and out the KA is nothing to be worried about for me. Eventually I will probably go with an SR20DET if I dont fall in love with the KA..lol but will see.

[Ghostdrifter]

I'm goin the KA-T route, if you piece together ur kit u'll spend bout 2500 but u'll be able to put out bout 300rwhp on stock internals. If you go past bout 200rwhp on an sr20 you have to start upgradeing things like ur turbo, IC, ect. anyways.

[Tygma]

I was going to go KA-T, but I enjoy not having to worry about a thing on my motor. I want to go fast, but I don't need it. Keeps me out of trouble too, haha. Reliability of all things is what appeals to me most...

[Omarius Maximus]

Problems with Ka-t: 1. fabrication(bypass this with greddy, some other turbo kit or ssautogay bottommount and downpipe setup with cheapo intercooler) otherwise, it's big money.
2. tuning: Hassle free-jwt ecu, enthalpy ecu, cheap but hassle cause of dyno time-safc, the best way-AEM (but its a big investment and you might as well get a wide band if your spending that kind of cash, or downtime because of dyno must be taken into consideration.)
3. Reliability: There have been plenty of people putting up big numbers on stock kas. But they are walking a fine line and they know it. Its one thing to run a stock ka well over 300rwhp for a dyno run, and it's another to do it for long periods of time at the track.

Problems with SR: 1. Not legal: this is especially an issue for people in socal cause the fuzz know whats up.
2.Its not that fast: Even with bolt ons, you'll still be hovering in the low 200s.
3. If you want more power, then you'll go through the same obstacles Ka guys have to go through, both on the hardware and software side of the engine. This of course throws the whole "reliable factory turbo" argument out the window. Also its a lot of time and money spent. not so much fabrication though.

Those are all the weaknesses I could think of, so choose whichever one puts you off the least. For me, they are both equal. With the ka-t, I'd always be nervously monitering the AFRs hoping nothing catastrophic would happen. With the SR, I'd always be nervously monitering the streets making sure that the fuzz don't pop my hood.
I think stock ka with electric fans and JWT cams is fun to drive, especially when you have full suspension and Yokohama A048s, maybe when I'm rich I'll get a turbo powerplant.

[NemeGuero]

Go SR or go home. KA-T's are gaining too much popularity now without enough knowledge. For a Ka to be done right.. it's over a 5 grand project. And that's on budgeting. (pieced kit, self-installed, friend who can weld, DIY tuning, DIY engine rebuid... etc. ) without those things, you will be very unsatisfied and shocked when your Ka-T blows up on you. If you're on a budget, don't go KA-T or it won't last.

End point being, the KA is an NA motor and was never offered in a turbo version. In simple terms, the KA isn't built or engineered for any kind of boost. Therefore, to have a boosted KA, it has to be 're-engineered.' or rebuilt. Not just internals, but fuel management, ignition timing (which goes heavily overlooked quite often), fuel delivery.. Piggy back fuel computers and ignition adjusters and such are band-aides. They'll work, but never be as good as they're supposed to be. It's patchwork vs upgrading. You'll end up replacing the parts for the right thing down the line anyway. Go SR and avoid the head-aches. /Rant.

[Cashizslick]

^ all good posts.


The main reason KA-T's are becoming more and more popular is because of the rising price of SR motors - Even redtop SR's are selling for almost 2x as much as they were 4 years ago.

The SR was the obvious choice for a 240sx when it was cheep, now that prices are high, KA's look much better.

That said, the KA can be built into a powerfull motor. Both SR's and KA-T's alike have put down killer dyno numbers in the high 600hp range, and killer track times to boot.

I have had enough of this KA-T vs SR war that has evolved in the 240sx tuning circle. Persue the route that is best for you as stated above. If your KA is rock solid, then go KA-T . . . if u find a good deal on an SR, go SR20DET.

I would go KA-T any day over paying too much for an SR. Dont get wenzled, spend ur money wisely.

[Omarius Maximus]

I think the same can be said for the SR too. You have to reengineer the thing once you hit certain limit: turbo, maf, and injector size. The second you do that, it's officially your experiment, it is no longer Nissan's setup. Same with Ka, only the Ka's limits are at a much earlier HP level since its not turbo.

[NemeGuero]

But you can get by without an ECU re-tune on an SR. Piggy-backs will be sufficient compensation. While a stock KA ECU won't handle anything on its own.

[Cashizslick]

^ true, but "getting by" and doing it right the first time are 2 different things. . . . besides, there are plenty of ways to "get by" cheeply on a KA-T too so lets not start that.

[mr_240sx]

well i guess i got lucky last summer, got a redtop s13 sr for 1700 cdn. perfect condition, perfect compresion! and it shows in my dyno numbers.... stock with fmic and little bolt ons, 213 rwhp on mustang dyno!

[Cashizslick]

^ if all SR's could be had for $1500 like in the good ol days, everybody would have one, but they cant be.

[180sxdrifter]

id get a crate motor and run N/A for a while till I save another 5Gs for a proper turbo setup :hammer:

[Jeff240sx]

Wow.. grats on keeping this thread open guys. If it stays that way, I think we'll have the first ever non-shitty ka v. sr thread on any forum.

Anyway. Buy my KA-T. Done.
-Jeff

[jedi_first_degree]

I would do either depending on what kind of numbers your looking for. If you want to go more then 300whp i would go sr20. I know many of you will say you've seen more out of that on a KA T but like someone said before. Its one thing to put up those dyno numbers , its another thing to run that reliably for a long period of time.

I may be bias because i'm coming from owning a front drive sr20det car. but i have seen both motors pulled apart down to bare bones. The sr20 bottom end is way better then a ka.

So in my opinion if your ok with 200-300hp go with a ka t. If you want more and don't want to build a motor go sr20.

[NemeGuero]

the piston ring landings are where the KA motors fail. the block is cast iron, rods are forged from nissan.. I'd trust a KA bottom end over an SR's.. As long as you upgrade the pistons.

[Pank]

a lot of people have completely ignored the differences in displacement, and how high each motor is going to rev, and where they make most of their torque


KA-T:
going to be able to push a slightly larger turbo, and will be able to spool it up sooner than the SR. The downside to this, is that even a cammed KA-T is going to lose breath around 7500-8000rpm, on the BEST OF BEST days. However, you will make more torque with a properly sized turbo around town, than you would on an SR20. Unfortunately, unless you buy a kit, you will have to do a lot of fabbed piping, fuel management, not to mention a standalone ECU, or an SAFC or something. the cheap route would be to run megasquirt, but that takes a bit more knowledge than a lot of people do, and quite a bit of tuning time.

SR20DET:
.4 liters less displacement, but they will rev like a badass. If you like a lot of upper mid, to top end power, an uprated turbo'ed SR20 will be your next baby. upgraded IC, maf, ECU piggyback, bigger turbo and injectors is not a lot to drop for a fairly drastic difference in power, not to mention what a few hundred dollars worth of cams and pauter rods will do on top of that. (if you've got it opened anyway).


if you're going to do serious mods to your car, it really shouldnt be your ONLY car. Because you should honestly pull it, rebuild it from the bottom up, then you KNOW what went into it, and how it all works.

honestly people, buy a daily driver b13 SE-R sentra or something, for a "just in case" car

[NemeGuero]

Or just have an extra motor to be built in the garage..

[Omarius Maximus]

Its actually funny but here are my preferences as far as the whole ka vs. Sr debate (subjective)

cheap Ka-t>stock SR (you'll be putting out more power, and you have the option of taking it all off if need be, either to sell or pass smog, reliability wont be an issue at 5 or 6 psi)

Medium build SR>Medium KA (Mainly because proper fuel managment is cheaper for SR than for ka, Power fc is less than half the price of Aem, when it comes time to change injectors and maf. Also, at this point you'll be pushing stock ka block to the limits while the SR is still fine.

Super heavy duty crazy build KA>SR (when you get to power levels where the bottom end needs to be reinforced, its just more economical to build a ka rather than buy, swap in, then build the sr. Also, I think the ultimate potential of the KA for both Street/track is higher than the SR due to its extra displacement. On the track alone though, I think SR is = if not > than the KA.

I love both engines, they both make more sense than the other, which is awesome.

[Omarius Maximus]

If you plan on getting an SR or a ka-t, I too suggest that you have a back up car or motorcycle. I think a geo metro would suffice, or maybe even an old triumph bonneville.

[Pank]

Or just have an extra motor to be built in the garage..

Thats what i'm doing here. I have an unnatural fear of not having a car, even though neither are street legal now.

a backup motorcycle would just be flat out FUN to have, if you can commute on it practically

[Omarius Maximus]

Agreed, a cbr F4i would be perfectly reliable and practical. Not my Triumph bonnie idea though.

Whats funny is that a smart person would budget in the price of a backup car into your engine build plans hahaha Forged Pistons, rods, AEM, YUGO hahaha

[Pank]

too bad i'd go over the deepend and get FZR's and 1300CC turbo Suzukis if i had the money. (you know the one)

[Omarius Maximus]

HAYABUUUUUUSAAAA turbo power!!!!

[Pank]

i really hate that they're popular bikes.
anyway, enough of the derail.

sort-of on subject, I remember a list of OEM turbos that would/could be used in a KA-T setup, and as soon as i find it, i'll post it here

[allblackS14]

I would vote SR, big fan of factory turbo'd vehicles.

[KrazyZenki]

What about the driving differences? I have an SR but always liked the KAs. Ive seen on numerous KA-T dynos that the torque peak starts to fall of right where the horsepower peak starts so it would seem to me that the KA-T would have a nice fun to drive factor. Plus I love torque more than horsepower. KAs can keep the torque right along with the horsepower up to 450whp where SRs seem to fall off around 350whp. Either one is a great choice but if I bought a 240 with a strong KA in it Id stay KA.


My .02 cents

[Cashizslick]

Its actually funny but here are my preferences as far as the whole ka vs. Sr debate (subjective)

cheap Ka-t>stock SR (you'll be putting out more power, and you have the option of taking it all off if need be, either to sell or pass smog, reliability wont be an issue at 5 or 6 psi)

Medium build SR>Medium KA (Mainly because proper fuel managment is cheaper for SR than for ka, Power fc is less than half the price of Aem, when it comes time to change injectors and maf. Also, at this point you'll be pushing stock ka block to the limits while the SR is still fine.

Super heavy duty crazy build KA>SR (when you get to power levels where the bottom end needs to be reinforced, its just more economical to build a ka rather than buy, swap in, then build the sr. Also, I think the ultimate potential of the KA for both Street/track is higher than the SR due to its extra displacement. On the track alone though, I think SR is = if not > than the KA.

I love both engines, they both make more sense than the other, which is awesome.


:werd:

if you plan on going balls out with your motor setup then the extra .4 liters of disp. are a big advantage.


Just for the record, i drive an S14 w/an S13 redtop and can vouch for the SR's fun factor in relatively stock form :).

[SochBAT]

Do it right the first time.

Its pretty easy to piece a turbo kit for less than 3k, and end up having more power (varies) and still have time to rebuild and strengthen the KA. Then again, you can just plop 3k down and get an SR.

Its really up to you. Check out some dynosheets for SRs and KATs.

[Cashizslick]

This thread should be stickied.

Its the only non-violent SR/KAT thread on the internet.

[-usmd-180sx]

NEITHER KA-T OR SR20!! How about LS-1... HUH LUKE?? MuahAHAHAH!

[MrBrightSide]

I'd like to go VQ35de

[OJmobileII]

NEITHER KA-T OR SR20!! How about LS-1... HUH LUKE?? MuahAHAHAH!

i have an red top in my s13 coupe on upgraded turbo, etc. i recently acquired another clean 5sp s13 coupe and ive been throwing around the idea of trying a ka-t this time around or trying an ls1. i dont plan on going sr20 again. nothing against the sr20, but i jus wanna try something different this time.

i would like to see more info on the ls1 240's if anyone has one or plans on doing one (actual plans, not dreams). theres a lil bit of info on ls1tech.com. if someone would like to start a thread w/ some experiences w/ ls1 (rather than steal a thread, like i did) that would be very helpful.

[-usmd-180sx]

ask luke.. or whomever helped with the swap.. they have more than enough knowledge about that swap..

PurrRs like a kitten

[Shinshi-no240]

I'd go wid the KA-T. Its a bigger motor, and it has a stronger block construction than the SR20. Plus with the right internals on the KA and it will be better in my opinion. I know people who have blown numerous SR20's. You can put a bigger turbo on the KA-T. Since it has more torque, it has better means of acceleration. If you wanna save money doin the KA-T swap, get some friends together and do it yourself, then get it tuned.

Im not trippin' on the SR20, I love all that is about Nissan

[brainfood]

sr ka's are too heavy
right now with ka my car is 58/42 with sr it should drop to 54/46 much better wieght distro in my opinion but its all preference. My car has plenty of power now with the stock ka. Learn to drive it first and set up your suspension correctly before you jump to getting more power.

[Pank]

Learn to drive it first and set up your suspension correctly before you jump to getting more power.

Everyone needs to listen to this.

Also, theres been a bunch of different swaps into the S chassis, 1uz's, LTx's, LSx's, the s2k drivetrain, VG30's, CA's, RB's, and i swear i saw one guy with an L series in an s13. But the fact remains that the SR and KA-T are what the thread is about and are THE most popular swaps.

[socal240sx]

My friend has run a turbo setup on a stock KA24DE with low boost <10psi and can put down 300+ hp reliably and has had any wear problems. Of course he keeps his revs below 6500 because the KA's are known to throw connecting rods at high revs.

In a straight line he is faster than SR20DET's however I feel that the SR20DET's would close the margain or beat him on a tight road coarse (assuming turbo lag is even) due to better front to rear weight disbursement (becausde the SR is aluminum black and the KA is cast iron black the SR weighs alot less and reduces the excessive weight on the front axle to balance the car out) * There is a reason almost all BMW's are near 50/50 weight distribution to be "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

Of course for drift I think the SR20 is better due to the importance of controlling the car at the edge and weight transfer and the SR20 develops power and is more durable higher in the rev range.

I plan to run in SCCA Improved Touring ITA class for 89-90 SOHC KA24E so I cant run forced induction per the GCR for that series.

[integra22]

ok i have to add to this cause im a nob and i just got out of honda's (Yes i have turbo'ed a b16) But I have just bought a s13 coupe. The car has no motor or frontend. So my question is, should i go Sr or ka-t. i live in ohio and zerolift is about an hour from me. Or should i just but the ka and get the car running and do suspenion mods and learn how to drive the car..

[Maeda]

1

J

Z

Ok seriously this time.
More weight in the front = more stability when it comes dorito time.
KA-T = NO TURBO LAG if you did it right.
KA-T = Torque EVERYWHERE in the powerband.
KA is a cheap motor. Blow it get another.

(SR's are for pussys. KA or better for life.) :D
Even though this is an OLD post I must add.
Socal240sx - You're full of crap. Controlling the car at its limits has NOTHING to do with the motor. People that know what they're doing can just hop into most any car and do their thing. Weight transfer skill, throttle control etc, have nothing to do with the motor and everything to do with the driver.

Everybody bitches about the KA weight. Why don't you just lift the cars height in the front a touch more.

Integra22 - Learn to drive. I turbo'ed my car, and now i'm stuck learning to drive a car where everything happens 10xfaster. Basically its really hard to learn to do anything.