something weird I've noticed about the stock S14

[gundamzeta]

I've have been test driving used S14's for the last 2 weeks and there is something I just can't get past.

My Bone stock MR2 N/A T-Top weighs about 3000 lbs, and that's without all the junk I have in the trunk, but it still feels more agile and tossable than a Stock S14, which weighs signifacantly less.
I've also noticed that The S14 is comparatively more prone to understeer than the MR2, which is probably obvious because of the different drivetrain layouts. However, I didn't think it would be that much of a difference.

What's the deal?

[!Zar!]

You awnsered it yourself, it's the drivetran. Also, tires could be a big part of it.

[lucky7]

you screwed yourself. every car you drive that isnt MR is going to feel this way.. FOREVER!!!

[chuy]

Stock (base)S14 dont have a rear sway-bar

[kuramaya]

As agile as the MR2 is, it will always handle better than an S14 (i presume you mean 240SX S14 Chassis) stock for stock...takes a bit of work on an S14 chassis to get it agile..it's a bit of a boat with stock suspension..sways and understeers terribly..

[sepulchral]

because its compact smart guy.................... you think

[gundamzeta]

because its compact smart guy.................... you think

a compact that weighs 3000+ lbs.

the mr2 weighs a lot more than the 240sx S14, but it still feels lighter. the MR2 is smaller, but The density of the car makes a difference?

[gundamzeta]

Hmmm.. i always thought of the cars as near equal after modifications with the 240sx winning just a tad because of the FMIC capability. Think of it as two n^x curves that converge eventually with the 240sx intercepting the y-axis at lower spot than the MR2.

[s14xman]

well stick with your MR2, leave the s14 for someone who appreciates its driving characteristics. You know what they say: "Once you go MR you can't jump on the 240sx bandwagon"

[axiomatik]

It has a lot to do with the drivetrain layout. Having a mid-engine setup reduces the moment of inertia of the car, making it easier to turn. While the MR2 is a bit heavier, the weight is more concentrated towards the center of the car, and it can turn about its vertical axis more easily. Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

[Phlip]

*snip* Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

come on dude, you know the only 4-syllable word that these kids understand is "motherfucker," let us help them along:

Exacerbates: ex·ac·er·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zsr-bt)
tr.v. ex·ac·er·bat·ed, ex·ac·er·bat·ing, ex·ac·er·bates
To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate: a speech that exacerbated racial tensions; a heavy rainfall that exacerbated the flood problems.

[gundamzeta]

well stick with your MR2, leave the s14 for someone who appreciates its driving characteristics. You know what they say: "Once you go MR you can't jump on the 240sx bandwagon"

well I had a Sr20det S13 before I bought an MR2..

i'm not jumping on the band wagon, more like rejoining the convoy.

the transition from S13 with mods to stock Mr2 was not as drastic as Stock mr2 to stock S14.

[gundamzeta]

It has a lot to do with the drivetrain layout. Having a mid-engine setup reduces the moment of inertia of the car, making it easier to turn. While the MR2 is a bit heavier, the weight is more concentrated towards the center of the car, and it can turn about its vertical axis more easily. Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.


hmm.. you realize that the Engine is right over the rear-wheels right? While the MR2 gets the MR designation, it always seemed more like a RR to me, especially after driving it for so long.

[tew photy]

MR = engine in front of rear axels
RR = engine behind rear axels

if you look in the back of a 911, you will never again think the mr2 is RR

[gundamzeta]

MR = engine in front of rear axels
RR = engine behind rear axels

if you look in the back of a 911, you will never again think the mr2 is RR


yeah, I know this already. It was an exageration used to emphasize the oversteering charaterstics of the MR2.
I've seen a 911. Thanks for schooling me my master.

[gundamzeta]

come on dude, you know the only 4-syllable word that these kids understand is "motherfucker," let us help them along:

Exacerbates: ex·ac·er·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zsr-bt)
tr.v. ex·ac·er·bat·ed, ex·ac·er·bat·ing, ex·ac·er·bates
To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate: a speech that exacerbated racial tensions; a heavy rainfall that exacerbated the flood problems.


people who point out "big" words usually aren't very well-read or educated.
:-/

[Pank]

so did you just post this thread to tell everyone how much better MR2's are than s14's? if so, leave.

[m0rex]

I was watching a Best of Motoring vol 6 and the champ s14 beat the amuse s2000 and technopro spirit mr-s. I just felt like saying this.

[infinitexsound]

morex u feel like saying anything to get ur post numbers up, good thinkin....

u might wanna watch ur self with your responses to the MODs...

anyways... stock suspension on a s14 isnt that great either... switching up is what really brings out the layout on the s14

[Yoshi]

people who point out "big" words usually aren't very well-read or educated.
:-/

Maybe i'm totally off base, but i'm almost positive I reasd in a previous post that Phlip is a writer no?

[infinitexsound]

yoshi just sit back and enjoy the show... :drama: popcorn?

[justinhustle]

something weird ive noticed about s14s and s13s is the influx of goddamn idiots who attempt or achieve ownership of one.

[gundamzeta]

something weird ive noticed about s14s and s13s is the influx of goddamn idiots who attempt or achieve ownership of one.


what the heck...

I just posted some personal observations about a stock S14, and I get flamed.

Challenging my intelligence, my knowlegde of the english lexicon, and my knowledge of automobile specifications. oh, I'm also a goddman idiot, and trend happy sheep ricer boy..

i've been a nissan fan ever since I had a Z some 10 years ago, and I had a S13 3 years ago. I've never driven a stock S14, and now that I have, I just don't like it.

:wtf:

I'm not trying to flame. I just wanted some answers, so I would know how to tune the S14 to my liking if I ever bought one.

[gundamzeta]

Hmmm.. i always thought of the cars as near equal after modifications with the 240sx winning just a tad because of the FMIC capability. Think of it as two n^x curves that converge eventually with the 240sx intercepting the y-axis at lower spot than the MR2.






did anyone read this?!! dammit i'm not trying to flame.

[Var]

Did anyone else mention anything about wheelbase? i just skimmed through the thread. But i think having a shorter wheelbase makes the car rotate better.

[allblackS14]

Your salvation lies with suspension. Coilovers or Springs/Struts, better sway bars and minty air freshners...*in Homer voice* Ouuuuuuu mint :fart:

[gundamzeta]

Your salvation lies with suspension. Coilovers or Springs/Struts, better sway bars and minty air freshners...*in Homer voice* Ouuuuuuu mint :fart:


yeah I figured as much.

but are there any weight reduction, and or chasis modifications that are necessary because Nissan NA messed with it in the name of marketing, or is the S14 a solid chasis that can just be awakened by aftermarket mods.

[zenkiDori]

it has to do with where the weight is and the suspension as well. my FC weighs more than my 240 but is far more nimble and light on it's feet. also the MR2 has a smaller footprint.

the 240SX isn't the beat all handling monster some would have you think it is.

[aznpoopy]

yeah I figured as much.

but are there any weight reduction, and or chasis modifications that are necessary because Nissan NA messed with it in the name of marketing, or is the S14 a solid chasis that can just be awakened by aftermarket mods.

theres nothing magical about a s14 whether it be US or Japanese

the reason its good is because its cheap and rwd, nothing more nothing less

don't go into it thinking this is some kind of monster waiting to be awakened with aftermarket parts

even after you bump up the hp and do full suspension job, there are going to be superior cars in almost any racing venue you can think of. autox, road racing, drift, etc.

the chassis is actually quite heavy
the car is really a piece of shit in stock trim

the advantage the 240 has over many other cars is that chassis/parts are relatively cheap and commonly available. its pretty cost effective for a weekend racer.

[drift freaq]

I will say this and it will probably offend some of the people i.e. S14 owners out there. Oh ya official disclaimer my buddys RB powered track S14 stomps all the MR2 Turbo's it comes across on the track all the time. hehehhehhehe
that said I have driven MR2's and I do like them. Though I will say its a apples to oranges thing to really compare a MR to FR. Though since we are here , S13's while S14 owners claim superiority over S13's still in my book rule in the S series chassis's here in the states. It asks to be driven hard, It asks to be thrown in a corner . Much more than even a setup S14 does . Plain and simple!! Not saying you can't throw a setup S14 and have it do will you can. Though it does not entice that kind of driving nearly as much as a S13 does. Yes the S13 chassis is not as stiff . Yes its noisier( sports cars are supposed to be noisy). It just plain and simple evokes the embodiment of sports car much more than the S14 does.
Now comparing a S13 to a MR2 is a little closer but again apples to oranges. In all out grip the MR2 just rocks!! Though it is a completely unforgiving chassis. I.E. drive a MR2 you better be a pretty decent driver. S13 on the other hand while you can drive it hard is much more forgiving allowing the driver to recover and save face. I.E. less experienced driver better off driving a S13.
Oh and for all the people out there that say a 240sx is a piece of crap car and only good because its cheap you really do not know much about sports cars and suspension technology.
1989 S13 came out 15k production sports car pulling .89 on the skid pad stock from the factory thats 2 tenths of a point below a C5 Corvette and a stock Porsche 911.
Add to that a drag coefficent somewhere around .31 and a center of gravity of .29 and you have a nice well balanced low center of gravity grippy entry level sports car.
Why? Because the rear Independant Multilink suspension Nissan stuck in our cars, is a world class suspension design. Its why the still use a variation of it today in their cars.
It won accolades when they brought it out in 89 and its still consider to be great. The only thing they did not do to the S chassis series which would have made it amazing was a wishbone front suspension setup of course that was because that was Z car and Skyline fare.
Now I am sure one you of is going to try to flame me for this but these are facts and prove out the naysayers of our cars.
There is reason the 180sx was Japans most popular sports car ever built. It lies in the combination of the above factors combined with the SR20det that made the car a Z killer in Japan. Now your all going to cry about how we got stuck with the KA and its sucks. Eat it !! There are ways around that. Fact is Americans are hotrodders we adapt and change things if they are not perfect. Get over it and go out and enjoy your car and stop putting it down. Its a whole lot better car than some of you may think.

[cali240sxdrifter]

pwned by david

[greddys13]

mr2=garbage

[Phlip]

people who point out "big" words usually aren't very well-read or educated.
:-/
wrong
Maybe i'm totally off base, but i'm almost positive I reasd in a previous post that Phlip is a writer no?
This is correct.

*snip*Challenging my intelligence, my knowlegde of the english lexicon*snip*

wrong again, I never called you by name, until now... I will now question your ability to discern sarcasm, so as not to take it personally...

... this thread is over, Dave has said ALL that needs to be said... I currently own an S13, formerly owned an S14 amd have 2 friends with MR2s, one modded and one stock. I preferred my S14 to the MR2s for what it was worth to me and prefer my 13 to all for what it is all worth. My opinion is in no way law, but I seem to fall on the side of the majority here

[kuramaya]

Well My Ryan's S14 cant touch my RPS13 in handling, we have similar suspension mods..my car is on rails..I can gurantee the S14 has a tendency to understeer in highspeed turns unless of course your on the throttle and yank the brake a little :p

[gundamzeta]

I will say this and it will probably offend some of the people i.e. S14 owners out there. Oh ya official disclaimer my buddys RB powered track S14 stomps all the MR2 Turbo's it comes across on the track all the time. hehehhehhehe
that said I have driven MR2's and I do like them. Though I will say its a apples to oranges thing to really compare a MR to FR. Though since we are here , S13's while S14 owners claim superiority over S13's still in my book rule in the S series chassis's here in the states. It asks to be driven hard, It asks to be thrown in a corner . Much more than even a setup S14 does . Plain and simple!! Not saying you can't throw a setup S14 and have it do will you can. Though it does not entice that kind of driving nearly as much as a S13 does. Yes the S13 chassis is not as stiff . Yes its noisier( sports cars are supposed to be noisy). It just plain and simple evokes the embodiment of sports car much more than the S14 does.
Now comparing a S13 to a MR2 is a little closer but again apples to oranges. In all out grip the MR2 just rocks!! Though it is a completely unforgiving chassis. I.E. drive a MR2 you better be a pretty decent driver. S13 on the other hand while you can drive it hard is much more forgiving allowing the driver to recover and save face. I.E. less experienced driver better off driving a S13.
Oh and for all the people out there that say a 240sx is a piece of crap car and only good because its cheap you really do not know much about sports cars and suspension technology.
1989 S13 came out 15k production sports car pulling .89 on the skid pad stock from the factory thats 2 tenths of a point below a C5 Corvette and a stock Porsche 911.
Add to that a drag coefficent somewhere around .31 and a center of gravity of .29 and you have a nice well balanced low center of gravity grippy entry level sports car.
Why? Because the rear Independant Multilink suspension Nissan stuck in our cars, is a world class suspension design. Its why the still use a variation of it today in their cars.
It won accolades when they brought it out in 89 and its still consider to be great. The only thing they did not do to the S chassis series which would have made it amazing was a wishbone front suspension setup of course that was because that was Z car and Skyline fare.
Now I am sure one you of is going to try to flame me for this but these are facts and prove out the naysayers of our cars.
There is reason the 180sx was Japans most popular sports car ever built. It lies in the combination of the above factors combined with the SR20det that made the car a Z killer in Japan. Now your all going to cry about how we got stuck with the KA and its sucks. Eat it !! There are ways around that. Fact is Americans are hotrodders we adapt and change things if they are not perfect. Get over it and go out and enjoy your car and stop putting it down. Its a whole lot better car than some of you may think.


this pretty much what I came to concluded. Thanks for confirming.

[SochBAT]

MRs handles like its on rails, FRs can enter turns with more speed/stability, IIRC.

I'd so pimp an MR2 as a dailydriver. Prone to oversteer, but looks sexy as hell.
And yea, the drivetrain setup makes a big difference.

[xVaporx]

I am willing to bet that the majority of these s14s you are driving have crap tires with soft sidewalls as well. S14 is just as tossable as any s13 i've owned, if not more so.

[axiomatik]

If you didn't notice, he was specifically talking about *stock* S14s.

[kandyflip445]

Did anyone else mention anything about wheelbase? i just skimmed through the thread. But i think having a shorter wheelbase makes the car rotate better.

There you have it. I'd say the s14 is taller too giving it a higher roll center. Evos have aluminum roofs now to help cut down the weight up top. So I'd imagine the height would play a roll and how it feels over all. Also what kind of size tires to both come with? Like someone else said it probably has bigger sidewall tires. Does the MR2 come with any type of LSD stock?

[gundamzeta]

There you have it. I'd say the s14 is taller too giving it a higher roll center. Evos have aluminum roofs now to help cut down the weight up top. So I'd imagine the height would play a roll and how it feels over all. Also what kind of size tires to both come with? Like someone else said it probably has bigger sidewall tires. Does the MR2 come with any type of LSD stock?

no way

do you know how high the MR2 engine sits? I've seen more than a few videos of MR2's flipping.

hte MR2's high center of gravity is one of the worse things about the chasis.