Poor performance

[S13drift]

My car is running pretty slugglish.  When I mash the gas black smoke comes out then the car takes off.  I have black soot on the back of my car.  When I looked under the hood this morning I had black soot on the intake manifold near the firewall and on the injector.  I replaced the fuel filter, spark plugs and wires, pcv valve.  I also used fuel injection cleaner put it did not help.  I also cleaned the MAF also. There is carbon accumilating in the spark plug.  Last night enough was enough.  I ran a bone stock honda civic and lost bad.  Please and help would be greatly appreciated.

[geeaj]

Have you changed your O2 sensor, is it throwing a code? Sounds like that could be a problem. Also, check your MAF, it can cause the condition that you described. Start by checking the connector, especially the ground, they tend to go bad after a while.

[geeaj]

Sorry, I didn't see that you checked your MAF. I read on freshalloy some issues with richness and the purge canister. Basically the can gets clogged and can cause some richness problems.

[S13drift]

I did replace the o2 sensor. And that did nothing.  Where is the canister located?

[AceInHole]

fuel injector cleaner supposedly f***s the injectors up even more in our cars....  
check for leaks around the injectors and damaged vacuum lines, especially the one going to the FPR.

[Roly]

Possible O2 sensor going on the rag.  Do you have any fuel upgrades? (pump, fpr, etc...) Make sure that your getting enough spark or if the wire(s) and/or cap are arching.

[Roly]

Possible O2 sensor going on the rag. Do you have any fuel upgrades? (pump, fpr, etc...) Make sure that your getting enough spark or if the wire(s) and/or cap are arching. Pull the cap and look for cracks or white spots inside around the points of contact.

[240sxracer]

it wouldnt hurt to clean your aiv. mine was running terrible about a week ago.  after i fully took apart the aiv, cleaned it ,put it back on.  she was running like a whole new car.

[Powerzen2002]

First off... DO NOT USE fuel cleaner bullshit... I did that
and one of my injectors went in a bout a month or so.

Oh yea... and that Octane boost crap... thats even better!  Does a real number on your O-rings... eats em like breakfast!  

Anyway, what type of octane you running? &nbsp;87, 89, 92 ... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

You may wanna up your octane for a week and see how that works out. &nbsp;Nothing like starting with the basics to fix a really annoying bullshit problem! &nbsp;Also .. your MAF. &nbsp;Is it stock? Or did you replace it with a injen or K&N intake? &nbsp;

Good Luck.

[S13drift]

Thanks for the help everyone. &nbsp;I will check the AIV and fuel injectors today. &nbsp;I am running 93 octane. &nbsp;I had no idea injector cleaner did more harm than good. &nbsp;The car is stock right now no fuel upgrades, no intake. &nbsp;Does anyone have any idea where the black soot under the hood is coming from? &nbsp;It's all around the injector closest to the firewall.

[luey02]

only reason you can have black residue on anything is from unburnt fuel. &nbsp;That's means you're running rich, go get it checked out by a mechanic if you can't fiqure the problem out.. &nbsp;Are you gettin bad milage??

[S13drift]

Yes I do get very bad gas milage. &nbsp;I had to gas up twice to travel about 200 miles

[AceInHole]

my guess....
sounds like your #4 injector is messed up..... or at least leaking.

[Powerzen2002]

Just another smaller suggestion. &nbsp;Where do you live? &nbsp;

Just trying to figure out the altitude your at ... your maybe
running very rich due to octane... because octane 93 is a little high. &nbsp;You may wanna consider 91 at highest. &nbsp;Try down grading ... and see if there is ANY response to that before getting worried.

[S13drift]

I need to refuel today so I will give that a try. &nbsp;What do you recommend 89 or 87. &nbsp;I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland so we are at or below sea-level. &nbsp;What could be some of the worse case situations (expensive to repair) on why it could be running rich.

[bing]

i seem to be having a few of those same problems and i found out today that my tranny may be F'd...

i'll be doing a full tune up next week, and we'll see what happens..

[Powerzen2002]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'> &nbsp;Ah, your not to far off from me. &nbsp;Im in New York.

Try '89. &nbsp;I was using '91 octane and it was NOT combusting/detonating properly at all! &nbsp;I mean, it would feel like total piss poor acceleration. &nbsp;'87 will just give you alot of pinging ... and knocking. &nbsp;Not to mention its crap (in my opinion)

Also, right after re-fueling on '89 octane, try doing a few miles up on the highway right afterwards to get whatever other octane you have in there out, and get the car used to the new octane.

Good Luck! &nbsp;Let us know what happens.

[S13drift]

I will thanks.

[adey]

woah sh*t, I didn't realize injector cleaner did bad things to our cars... what exactly does it do (to the injectors?)? ... Great. I just emptied a bottle of STP (whatever) gum out (err or whatever it's called) into my tank.

So what's the deal?

[S13drift]

I did not see you post until I got home. &nbsp;I put 87 in the car. &nbsp;After driving it on the highway the smoke has cut down alot at WOT, but the power is not there. &nbsp;It might be the 87 octane, I don't know. &nbsp;In the morning the car runs like crap until it warms up. &nbsp;It bogs down a lot to the point it seems like it wants to cut off. &nbsp;I am trying to fix all of the problems before I start doing perfromance work.

[Powerzen2002]

Adey.... Yea. &nbsp;Fuel injector cleaners and crap like ... they have ALOT of detergents and other junk that cant litterally eat your fuel system alive. &nbsp;There is alot of controversey... because, it does depend on the car as well. &nbsp;American cars... sure why not. &nbsp;They run on piss. &nbsp;But imports got these O-rings and all kinds of rubber insulators... just dont risk it.

Not worth the couple of hundred in damage compared to a good old fuel injector pressure clean at your local shop for about 50 - 100.

[Powerzen2002]

S13Dri....

Did you check your AIV out? Make sure the filter is not filthy.

I just did this on my car for example, the car was bogging down... &nbsp;feals like a back pressure situation. &nbsp;Dont know without see'in it.

Good Luck. &nbsp;However, You really should use the 89... not 87. &nbsp;That is to low. &nbsp;Our cars have a 9:1 compression...

[sykikchimp]

I agree with Ace that it sounds like the #4 injector, or possibly an exhaust leak? &nbsp;Has to be Some reason for the suit on the Firewall?? &nbsp;

Fuel injector cleaner isn't necessarily BAD for your car. &nbsp;It just doesn't really help. &nbsp;Mainly because Gas has all those additives in them these days. &nbsp;No Need to put more of them in there.

[S13drift]

I will check and clean AIV today. &nbsp;This morning I smell fuel coming through the vents in the car. &nbsp;Also I had a shop put the car on the lift so I could look under the car. &nbsp;The cat is burnt. &nbsp;The heat shield is gone and the cat is DARK brown. &nbsp;The previous owner put a bosal cat back on the car, but from the condition of it it looks like they must have put it on as soon as they brought the car. &nbsp;Once this fuel is used up I will try 89. &nbsp;This sucks. &nbsp;I guess this is what happens when you buy a 12 year old car.

[S13drift]

Hey everyone. &nbsp;This is what I found. &nbsp;Before I started to look at the AIV &nbsp;I decided to look at some of the hoses and found that the one of them was wore pretty bad. &nbsp;The hose had a hole in it and that was where the soot was coming from. &nbsp;It seems to be some type of valve I guess. &nbsp;It has two small hoses in the top of it and a little larger one at the bottom. &nbsp;It's near #4 injector. &nbsp;I had a friend take me to autozone to pick up a new one because after fooling with the hose the ran bad it bog down and started cutting off on me. &nbsp;I replaced it and it runs a lot better. &nbsp;It is still smoke coming out of it at WOT and the power is not quite where it use to be yet. &nbsp;I had my friend stand behind the car as I rev it and he said it smell like straight fuel. &nbsp;I will check the AIV tommorrow and look at some more hoses too.

[S13drift]

bump

[bbp]

My guess is you have a vacuum leak in the EGR valve that runs behind the engine along the firewall into your exhaust. &nbsp;This is causing an improper mix and your ECU is adding too much fuel to the mixure to compensate for the vacuum leak. &nbsp;Dont bother with additives to the fuel. &nbsp;The system runs fromt he passenger side of the car behind the engine into a pipe that dumps into the exhaust. &nbsp;It is an emissions thing. &nbsp;It is difficult to reach, may try from under the car. &nbsp;The hoses you mentioned sound like a good start.

If you have not changed the compression of the engine by milling the head or block, don't bother with higher octane fuel. &nbsp;The car is designed to run on lower 87-89 octane. &nbsp;Instead of buying more expensive fuel, put your money in an envelope and send it to me. &nbsp;High octane fuel is only needed if you are runnning a high pressure turbo or very high compression engine. &nbsp;

bbp

[S13drift]

Thanks. I will check the EGR valve. &nbsp;I haven't had a chance to check the AIV. &nbsp;Would that have anything to do with it running rich. &nbsp;That's okay I will put the extra money in a envelope and save it towards a rebuild or a SR swap. &nbsp; :D

[bbp]

you can certainly check the AIV, but I don't think that is the cause, you said the the smoke or soot is near the back of the motor. &nbsp;You have to have some type of leak to cause this.

bbp

[S13drift]

The BPT valve hose had a hole in it, that's why I had black soot on the firewall. &nbsp;I replaced the hose but it did not help. &nbsp;I checked the AIV and cleaned that and that did not help either. &nbsp;The next thing i did was check the spark plugs and it it had clumps of white stuff on the terminals. &nbsp;I replaced the spark plugs and that did not help. &nbsp;So I took one of the plugs out and found some bad news. &nbsp;The plug was wet. &nbsp;It smelled like oil. &nbsp;What do I do? &nbsp;Is it expensive to fix. &nbsp;Should I deal with it until i get a new motor or a swap? &nbsp;Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[S13drift]

bump

[S13drift]

bump

[S13drift]

I give up! &nbsp;I going to put a bullet in the car and wait for the Lancer Evolution to come out.

[prInce]

while you were here bumpin the topic, i did a lil research :-p &nbsp;well i talked to this mechanic who had a toyota cressida at the shop which had a constant oil leak. &nbsp;so the owner, he overfilled the the engine with oil because he wanted to the oil to last long. &nbsp;turned out that the oil went to the spark plugs and all four of em were with with black oil. &nbsp;The mechanic washed em out with gasoline (i do not suggest you do this, this is extremely dangerous and there's a certain procedure to be followed) and the car started up after about 20 cranks lol...
so are you sure you didn't put too much oil in the engine? &nbsp;replace the plug.... actually, before doin that, take it for a free diagnostic at a near by shop.

i hope this helped &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'>

[S13drift]

Thanks I will give that a try &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Broadwayblues]

Can't the plugs get wet if the piston rings are worn?

[bbp]

Yes, put they would have to be REALLY worn. &nbsp;You may also have a bad head gasket, not likely, but maybe.

Replace the plugs, drive it a bit and pull them out again, are you sure it is oil on the plug and not Anti-freeze?

Does it run hot?
Do you have to add oil in between oil changes?
Do you have to add coolent from time to time?

There is a tube that runs from the valve cover back into the intake tube. &nbsp;Is there alot of oil in this tube, or does it look like there has been alot of oil coming out of this into the intake (is it real oily?). &nbsp;If so, That is a good indication your rings a worn (compression is leaking into the block and blowing oil out the breather).

[spicy_chicken]

the octane shouldn't really matter...if i used 87,88,89, or even 90 octane my 180sx will be running like crap...we use at least 100-101 octane over here....with turbo engines you don't want to use that low crap. my suggestion would be to go all out on silicone hoses and steel braided lines...make sure you heat protect your hoses

[bbp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S13drift @ April 16 2002,12:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The BPT valve hose had a hole in it, that's why I had black soot on the firewall. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what exactly is a BPT valve hose?

[S13drift]

On the the BPT valve there are two small hose on top and one hose that run from the bottom of it to the egr. &nbsp;the hose at the bottom was the one with the hole in it.

[S13drift]

bbp,
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I do have to add oil between oil changes. The temp gauge goes to halfway and thats it. &nbsp;I haven't had to add coolant at all, it's still full. &nbsp;I have to go outside and check the breather hose. &nbsp;The only thing is that it smokes only at WOT other than that no smoke. &nbsp;Also if I don't take the car to WOT the oil last longer. &nbsp;I was wondering it it is the rings or the valve seals.

[bbp]

1. &nbsp;If it a stock non turbo motor, higher octane won't matter, use what the owner manual says. &nbsp;These cars have knock sesors that will prevent predeatonation, it wont change a thing.

2. &nbsp;That is a good guess on the valve seals and rings, check the intake tube for oil. &nbsp;You can always run that hose into a catch can and plug the port on the intake tube if it is blowing oil out of it.

[S13drift]

Is it really expensive to replace the valve seals? I heard some places don't have to remove the head to do it.

[prInce]

just look around S13Drift... i got my vavle seals done for $80... that included installation of the fuel injectors that i bought somewhere else

[S13drift]

I am going to a shop tomorrow to get compression test and leak down done to find out where it is coming from.

[S13drift]

Prince,
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I just wanted to get an idea of how much it would cost so when I ask around I will know if they are trying to screw me over or not. &nbsp;I'm away at college right now and the shops here try to take advantage of college students.

[prInce]

well, i paid $80 for the vavle and injector installs, so i wouldn't be able to tell you how much is a good price... sorry
about the compression test, it should be roughly $150 at a good shop like Firestone or something. &nbsp;They do a full engine diagnostic that includes compression test...
good luck! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[S13drift]

Thanks prince. &nbsp;I will post an update this weekend.

[S13drift]

Hey everyone,

I finally got the compresssion tested. &nbsp;The shop said it was fine and he told me it may be a leak somewhere but they could not fine one. &nbsp;Does anyone know what else could be causing this.

Thanks

[S13drift]

Hey everyone,

Here's the update. &nbsp;I took the car to the exhaust shop and the cat was clogged and the exhaust was rusted through. &nbsp;So I had the cat replaced and a new exhaust (performance) installed. &nbsp;That made a huge difference. &nbsp;Today I dropped the car off at the mechcanic. &nbsp;The oil is leaking from the valve stem seals. &nbsp;So they are being replaced. &nbsp;I will let ya'll know the outcome.


S13drift

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S13drift @ June 12 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey everyone,

Here's the update. I took the car to the exhaust shop and the cat was clogged and the exhaust was rusted through. So I had the cat replaced and a new exhaust (performance) installed. That made a huge difference. Today I dropped the car off at the mechcanic. The oil is leaking from the valve stem seals. So they are being replaced. I will let ya'll know the outcome.


S13drift</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
cool.. &nbsp;I just got done reading all that.. &nbsp;My girlfriend is having the same problem with her Saturn.. &nbsp;smoke at WOT. &nbsp;And she burns a CRAP load of oil. &nbsp;I'm almost 100% sure its the valve stems or the rings (hoping stems..)