Universal mufflers

[240sBoMex]

hey everybody,
im goin to do my first custom dual exhaust system (on my '97 240sx, actually my first exhaust ever &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'> &nbsp;!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> done at the local Midas shop..
I was wonderin thru everybody's 240sx exhaust experiences, if you all could recommend me a good universal muffler that will produce Real loud but LOW rumbling thru low RPMs! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
I been looking around alot esp. on websites, and ive found a few..Arospeed, Obx, APC, Magnaflow, Concept-R, Nakayama, Hayame, Kudo, Vibrant, R1, and DT..there are many other 'noname' mufflers for like 90 bucks but sounds too cheap to be any good...
i appreciate any replies!! dont kno what i'd do without you ppls!!

[tnord]

first of all, i'm pretty sure midas crush bends their pipe, this is bad. second, of all the mufflers you listed, i think Magnaflow is the only decent one that i know of. i know for sure that APC, OBX, and aerospeed are junk. i think apexi might sell universal mufflers, they would probably be good. as would greddy, hks, thermal?, and even borla maybe to name a few. don't get crush bent piping, it will increase power zero to slightly and is just a waste of money if you ask me.

[240sBoMex]

thanks for advice tnord!!.. Midas dudes told me that i dont have that 95-98 240sxs have only 2 bends in their piping, and they are only slight, so its no biggie.. for sure Arospeed is junk? APEX-i and friends are Expensive,..i just need something for Sound, and for real little dough!

[Yoshi]

just for sound? wtf?
If all you wanna do is make your car sound like a riced out honda, by all means, get the APC...
like tnord already said, a good half of the companies you mentioned make total crap intended for ricers and/or newbies. an universal muffler is NOT the way to go (unless you have access to a place that can mandrel bend, if so, have fun spendin $<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

If you're goinn to the trouble of replacing the thing, you should probably get something that will actually MAKE your car faster... no just louder.

oh well, that's just my opinion. &nbsp;If all you want is the sound, get APC, just remember you're buying sound, not quality, not performance... hell, not even quality sound <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[tnord]

if all you want is sound there is no need for new piping, a replacement muffler will make noise. but really, if all you're looking for is it to be louder, drill some holes in the muffler, that will do the trick, and its free.

if you want to spend 150 bucks for something that doesn't make the car faster, makes you seem a fool, and attracts police, by all means get an aerospeed/apc/obx/all the other stuff you mentioned besides magnaflow. i think magnaflow is actually decent like i said before.

[DuffMan]

From my experiance it seems that a major factor in the pitch of the exhaust note, is the width of the piping. Wider piping seems to make a lower pitch exhaust note.

The best sounding mufflers would probably be a borla turbo style muffler. They seem to be great at getting rid of the high end noise. Turbo-style mufflers arent really the greatest for performance though, they just seem to sound good. For performance you're going to want a straight through muffler most likely.

Also, does anyone know why they call turbo-style mufflers "turbo" since they seem to be the worst application you can have for an engine that's actually turboed.

[Yoshi]

oh duh! why didn't I think of the hole drilling thing! hehee
Good work tnord! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

I know this first hand... yesterday I had to replace all of my tubing from the cat to the muffler, cuz I got my car hung up on railroad track (long, stupid, and ultimately uninteresting story, don't ask), and basically ripped most of my muffler off the pipe (pipe was rusted all to hell and needed to go anyhow)... for 24 agonizing hours, my car soulded like a riced civic. &nbsp;I wanted to kill myself.

Moral of the story: if you wanna sound like a ricer, rip your muffler halfway off... or drill some holes in it (or your exhaust tubing).
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

[Yoshi]

BTW, midas is gonna screw you with the labor costs... find a smaller local guy if you can.

also, I think your other post was deleted so i'll re-iterate my other comment...
I recall reading that dual exhaust on a small displacement engine, unless the 2nd pipe is a dummy, will actually hurt your performance. You may want to do a little research before you go through with it.

[adey]

Haha... you know, one reason I would want an exhaust just for sound (provided it had no negative performance aspects) is to aide my h&ting... it is at times hard to listen for revs in traffic, or with the music up. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;

That's one thing I find I need an exhaust for on my VW. Those things (new ones) are super quiet. That'd be the only reason I get a loud exhaust.

[240sBoMex]

hey, i said i wanted Sound 'cause some expensive mufflers ive heard on other cars sounded terrible, and im sure u wouldn't want an expensive exhaust and find out that u dont like the sound of it...i still expect some power increase but to me, sound is more important..i think sound is just important as performance. Power is pleasure but then a niice sound adds pleasure to the total driving experience too...
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'> sorry if i seem grumpy, just MO
Can somebody tell me what crushed and mandrel bent really is and if will be that bad for bout $140 US (got it quoted)? (crushed is like how stock pipes are bent rite?)
Anyone got bad beef bout R1 racing sports? thanks

[tnord]

99.9% of us get an exhaust for performance. because like i said before, if all you want is sound, drill a couple holes in your muffler instead of spending $150. as far as car parts go, in general, you get what you pay for. you WILL NOT, i repeat WILL NOT get a power increase from something like an APC/Aerospeed muffler. but hey, it's your car, and if you want to put junk on it that's just fine. crush bends massively restrict airflow, whereas mandrel bends don't effect it too awful much. having crush bent pipe flows just as good as me taking a dump after taco bell in a mandrel bent pipe. and yes, stock pipes are crush bent to save on production cost. if you still think sound is as important as performance after you're staring at my tail lights that's ok by me.
excuse my asshole-ness, but i'm loaded and get real tired of people that say "why spend all that money on Greddy when you can have APC."

[sykikchimp]

2 things.. &nbsp;I thought Turbo exhaust (i.e. Apexi N1) where good for exhaust becaus the larger piping increased the ability for exhaust to move through the turbo thereby decreasing spool up, and increasing efficiency.

also.. &nbsp;A dual exhaust can have good effects on a 4 cyl. if done right. &nbsp;You can increase flow, and keep the velocity of the exhaust high by using two smaller (say 2.25") pipes. (for example Apexi N1 Dual, or Trust DD exhausts)

The problem here is that inorder to run the pipe to the other side of the car you would have to add so many bends that it would "Probably" hinder performance. &nbsp;But I wouldn't think it would be enough to lower performance, as long as you got mandrel bent piping.


Mandrel bent means there are no wrinkles in the corner of the pipe. &nbsp;The metal is literally stretched on the outside of the bend to accomodate the curve.
Crush bent means there are wrinkles on the inside of the curve. &nbsp;This is bad because it causes turbulence in the exhaust, and slows exit velocity.

[IceTekGuy]

WHAT MOFOO GOTZ A PROBLEMZ WITZ MY AROSPEED?

hehe, but seriously guys, i sold my 3"inlet arospeed canister to my buddy, and it sounds real nice on his TSI Talon, and i want it back to put on my 240 with SR...

If you got a turbo car, then a nice (even crush bent) 3" exhaust will do the trick, and as far as cheapy mufflers, arospeed is of the same concept, and quality as Magnaflow(who makes Thermal Research and Development mufflers)

arospeed costs just as much as a magnaflow too...


well thats my 2.00$ (bein different with the saying &nbsp;) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ April 05 2002,12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">having crush bent pipe flows just as good as me taking a dump after taco bell in a mandrel bent pipe. and yes, stock pipes are crush bent to save on production cost. if you still think sound is as important as performance after you're staring at my tail lights that's ok by me.
excuse my asshole-ness, but i'm loaded</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
LMFAO!! &nbsp;I could not have said that better myself. &nbsp;If you want sound man, get a b16, strap a 4" exhaust on it, and plop an obx muffler at the end of it. &nbsp;Sound. &nbsp;Pure, unadutlerated, rice. &nbsp;And you know what I do with rice? &nbsp;COOK IT!
-Jeff

[Yoshi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ April 04 2002,12:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">also.. A dual exhaust can have good effects on a 4 cyl. if done right. You can increase flow, and keep the velocity of the exhaust high by using two smaller (say 2.25") pipes. (for example Apexi N1 Dual, or Trust DD exhausts)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Chimp,
Here I was referring to people with "dualies" style exhaust... I thought I read somewhere in one of hte 3 posts he did, that he was thinking of getting 2 mufflers (I assumed dualies style, one on each side) which would be quite different from a Dual N1 (prolly more bends too). &nbsp;

But then again, maybe I just read the post wrong <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[DuffMan]

The N1 isn't a turbo-style muffler, it's an N1-style muffler. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

At least in American terms, turbo mufflers tend to be an S shaped pipe going through a muffler.

[240sBoMex]

ok, thanks for all the Rice comments, im guessing nobody here has done a custom dual exhaust setup (2 clarify, 2.25" piping crush bent following factory lines, with an extended pipe coming off from the mid-section to connect a 2nd muffler on the other side)...
i would just like to know bout your experiences of the mufflers (esp. the Sound of 'em) installed on your cars or even other ppls cars, good or bad <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i sold my 3"inlet arospeed canister to my buddy, and it sounds real nice on his TSI Talon, and i want it back to put on my 240 with SR...

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey IceTekguy,
u remember how the canister sounded on your NA 240?

[Da808aZnRaVr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240sBoMex @ April 04 2002,1:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">im guessing nobody here has done a custom dual exhaust setup</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
actually i have a custom dual exhaust setup...hehe i know its not the type u were talkin bout though <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> ....mines is 2 single n1's put together on one side to make it look like dual n1's...there are a few people back home in hawaii that have or had dual setups the way that u are talkin bout though, one on each side, my friend was one of them...but he changed it and we both have the same setup now...check out my pics by clickin on the link in my sig...peace

[240sBoMex]

hey Da808, do your N1's branch into one pipe to the cat, or are there 2 pipes all the way back, either way, must have cost u little bit of mula! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'> &nbsp;
How did the separate dual setup sound on your friends car? and how come he changed it?

[Omega]

i think some of you need to get over the pre made full cat back vs. the custom catback weld on, because they are going to be about the same performance if done right

so i think u guys need to stop flaming him about wanting a weld on and get back to what he asked and tell him about how the differnt weld ons sound that u have heard

there is no huge reason that makes apexi N1 that much better then a custom setup done right, and the custom is going to be cheaper and done how they wnat it and they wont have to be ass reamed on shipping

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Omega @ April 06 2002,3:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think some of you need to get over the pre made full cat back vs. the custom catback weld on, because they are going to be about the same performance if done right

so i think u guys need to stop flaming him about wanting a weld on and get back to what he asked and tell him about how the differnt weld ons sound that u have heard

there is no huge reason that makes apexi N1 that much better then a custom setup done right, and the custom is going to be cheaper and done how they wnat it and they wont have to be ass reamed on shipping</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey guess what, they will not be "about the same performance." crush bends are brutal, and shitty mufflers, well, i'm guessing the only reason they make more noise is because there is less insulation, not because the exhaust is taking a straighter path. but i could be wrong about that, never actually looked at an aerospeed etc. after you install the 2.25'' crush bent pipe and aerospeed muffler put it on the dyno, i'd like to see if you even get half the power gains a 5zigen does. i told him good universal mufflers to get, but apparantly he didn't want to hear about it. i have NOTHING against custom bent piping, i had it done on my old eclipse, and i wanted to do it on my 240, but couldn't find a shop in town that i trusted (read: mandrel bends their pipe).
You are right that a custom setup done properly can be almost as good, and sometimes slightly better than a pre-made setup. BUT, a properly set up custom system is going to include 2.5'' (no bigger) piping that is MANDREL BENT, as well as an unlouvered straight through muffler. If you can acomplish this by all means go for it, and let me know where you had it done so i can take my cars there in the future.

[Da808aZnRaVr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240sBoMex @ April 04 2002,4:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hey Da808, do your N1's branch into one pipe to the cat, or are there 2 pipes all the way back, either way, must have cost u little bit of mula! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'>
How did the separate dual setup sound on your friends car? and how come he changed it?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
my duals branch off of one pipe from the cat...to get the original n1 it cost me 420 bucks...then to add the other one on it cost me 190 for the exhaust and 100 for a shop to make a y-pipe and weld on the new exhuast...my friends car sounded really good with the duals on each side of his car...but then again most 240's with n1s sound good...he changed it because after he did it for the car show everyone else started doin it too...

[HotRodGuy]

Well, I put an OBX 2.5" inlet/dual 2.5" outlet stainless muffler on my custom "crush" bent 2.5" pipe (see pic) and saw a huge difference in performance. The OBX that I got is a straight thru muffler. Actually it's like two seperate mufflers in one. The exhaust enters the muffler via a 2.5" opening and then splits, rather smoothly it would appear, into the two seperate sides. I had it done at the local muffler shop for $180 total. The crush bends are very slight and I don't really think that it matters if you have mandrel bent pipe or not on an engine that produces less than 200hp (180hp maybe with mods).

I agree that on cars that require a lot of bends and have high hp engines the mandrel bent pipe probably would be better, but I just can't see it on this engine. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Now, as for the sound....it has a nice deep tone and sounds really good above 3 grand, but has an awful "drone" between 2500 and 3000. Just crank up the system and drown it out! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

I hope that my post has helped answer your original question. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

http://www.all_bout_chris.homestead.com/files/240sxexh1.jpg

[Omega]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ April 04 2002,6:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--Omega+April 06 2002,3<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Omega @ April 06 2002,3<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think some of you need to get over the pre made full cat back vs. the custom catback weld on, because they are going to be about the same performance if done right

so i think u guys need to stop flaming him about wanting a weld on and get back to what he asked and tell him about how the differnt weld ons sound that u have heard

there is no huge reason that makes apexi N1 that much better then a custom setup done right, and the custom is going to be cheaper and done how they wnat it and they wont have to be ass reamed on shipping</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey guess what, they will not be "about the same performance." crush bends are brutal, and shitty mufflers, well, i'm guessing the only reason they make more noise is because there is less insulation, not because the exhaust is taking a straighter path. but i could be wrong about that, never actually looked at an aerospeed etc. after you install the 2.25'' crush bent pipe and aerospeed muffler put it on the dyno, i'd like to see if you even get half the power gains a 5zigen does. i told him good universal mufflers to get, but apparantly he didn't want to hear about it. i have NOTHING against custom bent piping, i had it done on my old eclipse, and i wanted to do it on my 240, but couldn't find a shop in town that i trusted (read: mandrel bends their pipe).
You are right that a custom setup done properly can be almost as good, and sometimes slightly better than a pre-made setup. BUT, a properly set up custom system is going to include 2.5'' (no bigger) piping that is MANDREL BENT, as well as an unlouvered straight through muffler. If you can acomplish this by all means go for it, and let me know where you had it done so i can take my cars there in the future.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey smart ass when i said done right i ment not crushed i thought u were smart enought to infer that guess not

why are u trying to start fights? u need to grow up man

[MyFirst240SX]

what does a pacesetter catback sound like? they are 130 for all the pipeing from headers back im pretty sure.

[tnord]

hey buddy.......you did not anywhere specify mandrel bends. how in the world am i supposed to know that's what you meant? more importantly, how is the new guy asking the question supposed to know what you mean?

i'd say a lot more, but at this point i really don't care. i've given all the information you will need. do whatever you want, it doesn't affect me any. i just give out information as i understand it, you can choose to believe it, or you can think/tell me i'm an idiot, that's just fine.

[Yoshi]

Hey Tnord,
How do you like your Fireball? I'm still debating to go 5Zigen or Apex N1... I'll go with whatever is quieter...
How long have you had it on? &nbsp;They're always louder after break-in, I'll be turbo when I get it (all at once), but I wanna be as low profile as possible (read as: cops around here HATE loud cars) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
Thanks bro!

[tnord]

i like it a lot, looks good, performs well, install is very easy, and the sound is there, but by no means is it intrusive or annoying. you can cruise down the highway all day at 80mph and not be annoyed. i definitely recommned it. (although i don't want you to get it because i don't like people to have the same setup as me &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'> ) but i suppose i'd rather have you get the 5Z than an aerospeed or any of the other junk that's been mentioned the past couple days.

[240sBoMex]

to tnord,
all your reasoning seems to be based on strong emotion against anything inexpensive, if you tell me something is horrible, it would be much more clear if you said you had it before and commented on it sounding terrible, wearing out fast, no performance gain, etc.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my friends car sounded really good with the duals on each side of his car...but then again most 240's with n1s sound good...he changed it because after he did it for the car show everyone else started doin it too...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
that sucks when that happens, but you know you started something good if other ppl do it too...
now i know how this will probably sound, but ive been kinda swayed into buying a dual N1 catback (probly N/A, but maybe Turbo one), because heard only good things bout it, but would it be possible and Ok, if a shop could rip off one of the canisters and extend it to the opposite end of my car?
it could work rite? then i would have a good catback and a dual exhaust setup! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[Yoshi]

what? arospeed? bleh!
Did you see my other posts on this thread?
Now I feel bad. How could you think I might even consider such a thing?! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>
hehee <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>
I know both the Fireball and N1 are excellent exhausts, I just need to know which is quieter, and that is the one I will go with... btw, do you know if 5Zigen has any form of silencer attachment you can get like Apex does?

[Yoshi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240sBoMex @ April 07 2002,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">now i know how this will probably sound, but ive been kinda swayed into buying a dual N1 catback (probly N/A, but maybe Turbo one), because heard only good things bout it, but would it be possible and Ok, if a shop could rip off one of the canisters and extend it to the opposite end of my car?
it could work rite? then i would have a good catback and a dual exhaust setup! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I may be wrong, but I believe the dual N1 is 2 pipes almost all the way back to the cat. The point of which is to have larger pipe flow, with smaller tubes, thus keeping some backpressure, but having the cumulative flow of a larger diameter pipe. These pipes are also kept straight as possible (hence the upward bend of the canisters), and mandrel bent for the small and few bends that are required. By ripping off one pipe, and moving it to the other side of hte car, I'm guessing you'll probably be getting crush bent tubing from whatever shop does it, as a mandrel bender runs $40k and up... I think there is all of ONE shop with a mandrel bender in all of Washington State where I live. So if you want that, it's gonna cost you.

A better way to go might be to get a single N1 catback, then mount a universal N1 on the other side (as a dummy). This would leave you with the performance gain and rich sound, and keep the look your looking for.

Personally I think getting a Dual N1 and destroying it, just put the pipe on the other side is a BIG waste of $. like $550 for the dual N1, $40 in crush bent tubing to move it, and $40-$80 for labor to move it, weld it, and create custom perches to hang it. And after all that, you may defeat any performance gain that might have been had at the start (though I understand this is not your main concern, but still, price is ALWAYS an issue). That's upwards of $700 for a system that will sound good (probably, dunno how adding bends to a system that was designed to be straight will alter the resonation) and be of little other help.

Oh, and a word on exhaust setups in general. If you put 3" on a non-turbo engine, you will have a less noticable performance gain than the 2.5 (the mainly accepted max diameter for our cars, and N/A 4 cylinder engines in general), plus, a 3" on an N/A will be LOUD. Not "hey, that cool looking nissan is coming" loud, I'm talking " wtf? I can't hear my stereo, much less hear the siren of the cop pulling me over for being having a 5million decibel exhaust" loud <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[DuffMan]

The loudness of N1s on a NA car is what is making me go with a custom exhaust setup. My goal is to have 3 inches for a later turbo upgrade but to also be quiet enough that its not annoyingly loud without the turbo.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240sBoMex @ April 09 2002,10:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">to tnord,
all your reasoning seems to be based on strong emotion against anything inexpensive, if you tell me something is horrible, it would be much more clear if you said you had it before and commented on it sounding terrible, wearing out fast, no performance gain, etc.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

EDIT: i can't comment from personal experience because i don't buy crap. remember, if you have the option to buy a good part for 200 bucks, or a shitty part meant to do the same thing for 100 bucks, and you buy the shitty part, well, now you're out $100 bucks and you're stuck with shit. on the other hand, you could spend some more money, and actually get something for it.

oh you are so horribly wrong. if i am so against "inexpensive" performance parts, then please explain to me why i bought 16'' kosei wheels that cost me $120 a piece instead of the absurd amounts some of you pay? i.e. upwards of $500/wheel for 17/18's. or how about why i bought dunlop sp sport 8000 tires for $70/piece instead of the $140 or so for S03's?
well, in case this brain teaser is too much for you i'll answer. the kosei's are lightweight, look good, and do all the things i look for in a wheel for roughly 1/4 the cost some of you pay. in short, they perform almost as good as a far more expensive wheel.
exhaust systems on the other hand, cheap replica's do not perform as well as the real thing. this is probably the 6th time or so i've said this, but it doesn't seem to be getting through to everyone. go ahead, get your $100 2.25'' crush bent piping and $100 junk muffler, pay another $150 to get in installed, and pay $150 less than my $500 (shipped) 5Zigen. you can say it sounds great, you can say it looks great, because to you, that very well may be true. but until you can show me a dyno chart of a car with that setup, don't even try and tell me (or other people that know this to be true) that the performance gains are the same.

and yes i have had a custom system on one of my cars before. and yes i was happy with it, and yes it did boost power. but it was MANDREL bent piping with a straight through muffler and appropriate pipe size.

go ahead.......try and tell me that i'm wrong, say whatever you want, buy whatever you want, i really don't care anymore.

[Yoshi]

uummm...
yeah!
and you smell funny too tnord! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
hehee
this thread has become just like this post... completely silly. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[AceInHole]

lol.... it's not so much price that TNord is talking about.... it's more of quality, although since price affects quality...... &nbsp;he is talking about inexpensive things sucking ass.

Anyways, crush bent piping isn't any more consistent than the stock piping, which will lead to poor flow, and in turn, less performance. &nbsp;If you want performance, mandrel bent piping is where it's at, and the best mandrel bent exhausts happen to come from larger companies, not Midas. &nbsp;

In the end, what TNord is saying is that you won't get a power gain that will justify what you spend on a cheaply made exhaust.... and that paying a bit more will make it actually worth it.

[syndicateone]

i &nbsp;really dont have any opinion here my friends all bought APC mufflers ( H YEAH ) to me they sound &nbsp;ALRIGHT i guess not great though but thats about it ive noticed perfromance wise iv seen nothing &nbsp;and i refuse to buy an APC like them if i were buying a muffler right now id go with something along the lines of HKS , Greddy , 5Zigen something that has a good name and the quality to back themselves but mainy heres my post.... Why is there so much Fighting over this topic its all a matter of what each person likes so i see no need to bash whoever wants "sound" "performance" or both or mandrel or crushed i mean it is their money if they want to invest or waste let them just offer your opinion but in a repective manner isnt the most important thing that its all about the 240SX ?? too many community boards fall apart because of fighting , me ive left 3 previous boards so far and Zilvia is not one i plan on leaving ever &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[tnord]

syndicate; you're right, if someone wants sound over performance that's their choice, but the argument isn't over which is better, it's that some people are claiming that their custom midas job is just as good as the high dollar systems. and that when you purchase these, the only thing you are paying extra for is the name, and shipping. if you read back to the first few posts everything was hunky dory.

person 1; i want a new muffler, what should i get, apc, aerospeed, magnaflow, etc
tnord; the only one that will give you performance is magnaflow
somebody else; high dollar exhaust suck, just go to midas
tnord; :::yelling and screaming::: wrong wrong wrong blah blah blah

i'm not too sure the point of my post, but yes syndicate, you're instincts are right that we should cater to the persons wishes instead of our own

[junia]

Just a suggestion, If all you want is sound why don't you keep the stock exhaust on there and just remove the intake resonator. &nbsp;That right there will give you a deep howling sound when you're driving. &nbsp;Almost sounds like you have somekinda aftermarket sports injection system....Just a suggestion......anybody agree with me?? &nbsp;I think it sounds good without the resonator..

[Omega]

i dont think he ment he wants all sound

and anyone that says they put exhaust on purely for performance is a lier there is no way in hell you would put an exhaust on even if it gave the most hp but sounded so crappy it was the most ricy sound you have ever heard it made your ears bleed &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>