canu paint an intercooler

[aznbean]

quick ? this may be the dumbest thing ne one has ever asked but can u paint an intercooler black? because the look of a front mount looks sexual but its a cop magnet for the cops that know what they are . p.s i know ive seen one company that sells it black please help very dazed and confused. thx :hyper:

[Silverbullet]

i painted mine black. cna't even seen the bitch.

[Andrew Bohan]

you can buy radiator paint, which won't interfere with its heat-transfer ability

[Jeff240sx]

you can buy radiator paint, which won't interfere with its heat-transfer ability
BS.

Everything but anodizing black interferes with its "heat-transfer ability" to some extent. There is a word for that.. emissivity.
-Jeff

[upSLIDEdown]

quick ? this may be the dumbest thing ne one has ever asked but can u paint an intercooler black?

Normally I'm not one of the ever popular Zilvia Search Nazis, but if you had searched, you would have found this thread with almost the same title as yours (except they used the correct spelling of the word 'you'...)

Thread on Intercooler Painting (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=23320&page=2&pp=30&highlight=intercooler+paint)



BS.

Everything but anodizing black interferes with its "heat-transfer ability" to some extent. There is a word for that.. emissivity.
-Jeff

Acutally, it's not BS. 'TLTD' is a Thermal Dispersant from Techline Coatings will not interfere with the EMISSIVITY of the intercooler, or radiator, or oil pan, or anything else you put it on. On the contrary, it will help dissipate the heat faster than the bare metal itself. It does however require oven baking at 300F minimum. I've noticed over the years that you have quite a bit of knowledge about quite a few different topics; I've also noticed that many times you answer people with a 'know-it-all' attitude. The truth is no one knows everything, I know I don't... Anyway, there's your answer...TLTD from Techline Coatings (http://techlinecoatings.com/BulkEngine.htm#TLTD) Third one up from the bottom. Hope that helps...

Bryan

[Yoshi]

...additionally, black is probably the dumbest color to paint something who's sole purpose for existance, is to lower temperatures. It's BLACK. You drive your car outside where that big sun thingy is.

Black object + direct sunlight = drastic increase in temperature of the black object.

So even if the painting process doesn't hinder hte cooling process, you still have the fact that the color black itself draws heat/light, raising the structural temperature of a device created for the opposite.

Seems pretty counter productive to me.
Pretty much EVERY manufacturer makes their FMICs silver, I'm sure that's for a good reason (silver will reflect heat!).

Now that I've said that, I"m just waiting for APC to make a crappy single core FMIC that's anodized yellow or red or blue or orange. Hooray for heat soak.

[killjoy]

This place does it for about 200 bucks.

www.swaintech.com

They do intercoolers all the time in black.

[Blues13]

This has been covered before.. bottom line is, Yes you can.. if you do it with a thin layer using something like radiator paint, there is no measureable difference in performance between a black intercooler and one that is not painted.

[aznbean]

thx for the help and every one stop fighting , its no right every one has their own opinions

[S14DB]

When you spray your IC with radiator paint you only cover the front tubes and a few mm of fins. Most of the heat transfer ocurs deeper in the core. The have been many tests with the Radiator paint and the special coatings. The Radiator paint had no change and the specal coating had more emissivity.

You're IC is under the bumper so I think sunlight exposure is a moot point.

[jOeHaCk98]

Just paint the end tanks, and get creative with tape and dont paint the fins.

I guess sun could hit your IC if you are driving durning sun set/sun rise climbing a hill :)

[Jeff240sx]

Hold up. Before people start laying into my post.. lets think about my assumptions.
First, we're talking about painting an intercooler. Black. Presumably with Engine Enamel or Radiator Paint. And yes.. paint interferes with emissivity. We're NOT talking about swaintech or other ceramic coating, which aren't black as far as I know. The product you listed I've never heard of. There are plenty of things to coat an intercooler with.. but if you want black, 10/10 times I'd anodize it. Look at many other heat dissapating (heatsink) objects. Usually copper (which would be too heavy for a fmic), or black anodized.

Third and lastly, upSLIDEdown.. I speak with a know it all attitude as habit from work.. and it does help that you rarely see me post in suspension/sr related topics, because I have little knowledge in those areas. But what I do know about, I post in. Have experience with the subject at hand always helps.
Anyway.. if I come off abrasive, that's just me. But I don't like bieng talked down on by someone completely wrong and off base (Yoshi).

You guys need to keep in mind that we're talking slight temperature differences here.
-Jeff

[mistaanime]

don't ppl just paint the intercooler black because they wanna hide it from cops or attention? otherwise just keep it how it is...

[upSLIDEdown]

First, we're talking about painting an intercooler. Black. Presumably with Engine Enamel or Radiator Paint. And yes.. paint interferes with emissivity. We're NOT talking about swaintech or other ceramic coating, which aren't black as far as I know. The product you listed I've never heard of. There are plenty of things to coat an intercooler with.. but if you want black, 10/10 times I'd anodize it. Look at many other heat dissapating (heatsink) objects. Usually copper (which would be too heavy for a fmic), or black anodized.


I agree, paint will interfere with emissivity, but you had posted in the thread I linked to, when I first found this coating, so I feel sure you've heard of it; maybe you just forgot about it. Also, if you had looked at the link to Techline Coatings, you'd see that TLTD is infact black, otherwise I wouldn't have posted any of this. That makes it the perfect coating for items such as intercoolers, radiators, oil pans, etc. I persoanlly talked to the guy at Techline and he said they had been seeing great results with TLTD and that it in fact did dissipate the heat faster than the bare metal itself (hence the reason it's classified as a Thermal Dispersant). You said the anodizing wouldn't hurt the emissivity, but I'm assuming it wouldn't help it either. That's why I posted the TLTD, it not only gives the black color he wanted, but it helps dissipate the heat as well.

Bryan

[Jeff240sx]

From Shoes59 on FA
But Swain's Black Body Emitter coating (BBE) is not very durable. They're only 20 minutes from my office and I've seen FMIC's with this treatment and it doesn't seem to hold up very well. Not to mention the cost to have an average size intercooler coated is $200+.

The main point I was trying to make is that if he wants a black intercooler.. paint is not the way to go. Paint coats the object, and reduces the thermal transfer between the air and the aluminum. All BBE or Thermal Dispersant reduce this transfer, but make up for it in some other way. I'm not a thermodynamic engineer.. but that's the basics of it. Paint and powdercoating cannot make up for the drop in thermal transfer, so are no good.
Anodizing, though, doesn't add thickness (.0002" or so), and makes a permanent color that can't chip/flake off or fade. Anodizing is aluminum through and through, not a coating. So, with black being the best heat emitter (which, Yoshi, also makes it the best absorber), you get a gain with no loss.
-Jeff

[hkspeed]

i painted mine black with krylon, then the body shop color matched it when i got my car painted :duh: :duh: :duh:
i havent noticed any performance difference, but i'm only running 7 pounds of boost.
either way, you still cant see it.
http://users.adelphia.net/~hkspeed/newpaint3.jpg

[Yoshi]

Second, Yoshi.. calm down....
-Jeff

Either u need to re-read, or I came across wrong.
Point being, we're coming from the SAME OPINION.

I'm not really sure how u thought I was attacking you, because when i wrote my post I was mostly referring to commentary from all those before you who were dicussing the painting....

My points were this:
1) Black attracts heat. Period. anodizing would be bad enough, but you're right, negligable nil effect. Paint is just stupid. Why get the IC in the first place, just get a black grille, or put a black grill in front of it (OR SILVER! WOW can't see the SILVER IC behind the SILVER grille!)
2) Direct sunlight on IC. Maybe you guys have yours set farther back in the facia, but you can tell jsut from my sig, unless my car's butt is totally to the sun, my IC is getting quite a bit of sunlight....
3) The APC Heatsoak thing. My point here was to be cynical, taht's about it. APC WOULD be the first manufacturer that NO ONE would be surprised at, if they released a single core FMIC that was available in different colors. Newbs would buy it for bling value and the fact taht it would be very inexpensive, apply too much boost for the small IC and heatsoak would kill any gains it might have had because of poor design (u know, like most APC products).

Seriously jeff, u know I respect you. If I thought you were full of shit, I'd straight up tell you so, like you just did to me. I think u just mistunderstood my post; like I said I at the beginning, I was fully on your side of this issue.

edit:
okay, maybe I'm AM ignorant of some science... could you explain this to me?

with black being the best heat emitter (which, Yoshi, also makes it the best absorber), you get a gain with no loss.

[Jeff240sx]

Yoshi, I'm sorry. I was fairly irked about being called out by upslidedown and must have read your post wrong. I apologize.

About the sunlight, it's not as bad as you are thinking. While you sit it soaks heat, but once you drive, it dissapates very quickly. And if it's black, dissapates faster. Emissivity is about radiation and how fast heat is radiated to/from an object. The higher the emissivity, the better. But radiation works based on temperature difference, and therefore having a scorching hot FMIC from sitting in the sun parked will lose the heat VERY fast when cooled going down the street. Then, as the temp difference becomes less, the cooling effect of radiation becomes less.

And Yoshi, heat absorption and radiation are intimately related. If an object absorbs heat very well, it has to release that heat very well. That's what the quoted sentence ment.
-Jeff

[killjoy]

Jeff, swaintech does have a black coating and they claim it actually makes the intercooler more effiencet. It is black for a reason. They call it their "stealthcoating."

[thejester03]

Ok, the way i see it, even if you do lose, oh lets say a whopping 2hp by maiking it black, I think if it saves you from possibly getting a ticket, its a pretty good price to pay. And Losing, lets say 2hp, i think would be alot for just making the intercooler black. But thats just my thooughts.

[Blues13]

Fact is, you probably won't lose any HP. I've never heard of anyone complaining that they could feel a negative impact when they painted it. Everyone just breaks out theories, but in practice, it doesn't make much of a difference.

Taken from Bell intercoolers:

"Can an intercooler be painted?
Certainly. One might find a small loss of efficiency if the core is painted, but likely this would be less of a difference than the repeatability of measurement. By all means, paint the end tanks, but preference suggests the core remain exposed."

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp#aa

[NZO]

http://www.eastwood.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=726&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=radiator+black

[nismo2491]

swaintech coating, increases heat transfer, and almost any color you want

[floodo1]

The main point I was trying to make is that if he wants a black intercooler.. paint is not the way to go. Paint coats the object, and reduces the thermal transfer between the air and the aluminum. All BBE or Thermal Dispersant reduce this transfer, but make up for it in some other way. I'm not a thermodynamic engineer.. but that's the basics of it. Paint and powdercoating cannot make up for the drop in thermal transfer, so are no good.
Anodizing, though, doesn't add thickness (.0002" or so), and makes a permanent color that can't chip/flake off or fade. Anodizing is aluminum through and through, not a coating. So, with black being the best heat emitter (which, Yoshi, also makes it the best absorber), you get a gain with no loss.
-Jeff

actually annodizing is a die based coating. first the pores of the aluminum are opened up, then die is soaked into pores, the pores are closed again. all the color you are seeing (or arent seeing, in the case of black) is light reflected (or absorbed) by the die that is sitting essentially on/in the aluminum.

but yeah its no encapsulative coating like paint.

still i find it hard to believe that spraying the front of your IC with a thin layer of paint (as previous post pointed out its only on the tips of your fins) esp a high conductivity paint, could hurt your performance very much. maybe a percentage point or two.


idk tho im just speculating about the effects of paint. i know my turbo honda friends all paint their ic's. and i doubt you're going for MAX hp from a given setup, so use some rad paint, use it lightly, and avoid the po po!

[Yoshi]

ya know, throughout this thread, I've never bother to ask some of you WHY you'd want to paint the IC...

Is this a cali thing?

It seems like most of you are worried about the police...
are there no FMICs that are CARB friendly? I guess I just don't see why having a FMIC is bad? All it's doing is making your car more efficient.

Bottom Line Question:
Why would you WANT to paint/anodize/radiator-paint your IC?

[upSLIDEdown]

I was fairly irked about being called out by upslidedown

I don't why you were irked. First of all, I wasn't "calling you out." I was merely trying to let the thread starter know that there are things out there (such as TLTD) that are black in color and will actually help the emissivity, not harm it. And if the part about you having a know-it-all attitude irked you (which you agreed to yourself), then, with all due respect, you need to get over yourself. I wasn't "calling you out" by any means, just showing the thread starter something he may be interested in.

Bryan

[S14DB]

I'm going to spray my IC with this: http://www.line-x.com/

[supportTHEezln]

ya know, throughout this thread, I've never bother to ask some of you WHY you'd want to paint the IC...

Is this a cali thing?

It seems like most of you are worried about the police...
are there no FMICs that are CARB friendly? I guess I just don't see why having a FMIC is bad? All it's doing is making your car more efficient.

Bottom Line Question:
Why would you WANT to paint/anodize/radiator-paint your IC?

A cop goes: Hmm, that 240 has an intercooler...let's pop his hood and get him in trouble. Cause chances are, if you have an intercooler on a 240, you have a motor that will get you in trouble. But, I must say, I've seen cops look right at my intercooler before and point and talk...from my experience, they don't really give a fuck unless you are driving like an idiot. Honestly. A cop isn't going to pull you over just because it's fun for him.

EDIT: this would be in california yes yes

[Jeff240sx]

I did say that these were very minute gains/losses earlier. And you won't lose horsepower by painting, you'll lose cooling ability, which would only be noticable because you'd heatsoak at 398hp rather than 400hp. It's not loss though.

-Jeff