Grinding in 2nd during cold starts

[TurDz]

Well, after realizing Redline Heavy Shockproof was a little too thick for my tranny (best when the tranny is very hot, such at constant shifting on the track, etc), I changed to good ol' MT-90.

Problem is, for about a few months now, I sometimes get grinding during the first few minutes after startup. Basically, I depress the clutch pedal, shift straight down to 2nd and then there's grinding. After it happens once, it doesn't happen again.

After the car is fully warm, there isn't a problem whatsoever, and it's very, very smooth. I think when I warm the car up very long (1-2 minutes), it's a bit smoother too with less chance of grinding (according to the feel of 1->2).

Anyone know what's causing this? what I have to do right now is very gently slide the shifter into 2nd, and if there is any resistance at all, I just put it into neutral, the then move it back into 2nd. I'm surprised a lot of the time that I can catch it before it grinds. A way I can avoid the grind also is to just shift from 1st, to neutral, and to 2nd in one quick motion, all in one clutch depression. By the time I do it 5-6 times during a launch, everything is fine.

i'd appreciate any help. my car is a 98 so that's why I'm concerned. It only started happening recently...particularly when I put the heavy shockproof gear oil in. It's already out though (most of it anyway) and MT-90 is in now, so I'm a bit concerned.

[BoroBoroS13]

For some reason KA trannies do this a lot and its a common problem. I can think of three people off of the top of my head that I know personally that have this problem. I also had this problem before I went to a CA18 trannie. If you have a short shifter try taking it out and going back to stock, that helps a lot for grinding and such.

[kandyflip445]

I have a stock shifter and Penzoil Synchromesh in mine and it does the same damn thing. Except now it's almost time to change the fluid again and it does it sometimes while it's warm.

[TurDz]

well I guess I can say it's a relief that I'm not alone. Now that I think about it, it MAY be the short shifter, but then again, I don't think I can go back to stock. My C's is just too good....fits my perference perfectly.

I don't even want to get started with 3rd when my tranny gets HOT (e.g. lots of local driving, say, 1hr+).

thanks for the comments.

[kandyflip445]

Man, I do deliveries. My tranny is getting the crap beeten out of it and it's honestly all right if I change the fluid often. I'd say more than the recommended intervals.

[papershot]

when I changed to mt-90 it totally got rid of my 3rd gear grinds but just made it so 2nd gear always grinds like the way you described, even when warm. eh, maybe I'll buy a new transmission when I go to change the clutch.

[kandyflip445]

Or you could buy the 1-2 syncronizer assembly and change that.

[twitchy]

Or you could buy the 1-2 syncronizer assembly and change that.
you can do that??

mine does it too, not when the temperature is warm out, but when its like 20 below, i have to like double clutch or it grinds...im due for a fluid change too

[kandyflip445]

I can. But if you don't know what you're doing it may be a little harder. If you had trouble doing it you could always post on here and I'm sure I could help you through it. But yes. You can order a 1-2 syncronizer assembly. I'm pretty sure AKADriver mentioned a place to get them before. You can get them from dealerships. I'm sure they'd cost you an arm and a leg there though. Just call around and google.

[papershot]

cost of new transmission = ~100 or so. effort = not much. changing the syncronizer assembly = something I don't want to do.

yeah, I'm lazy in the winter when it averages like 30 degrees.

[kandyflip445]

New 1-2 syncronizer assembly= ~100-150. (What I was quoted, but I get discounts)
Effort= Damn easy unless you take the assembly apart.

A "new" tranny for a 100 is no doubt a used transmission that could very well have the same problem. If you get a NEW syncro assembly then you KNOW it's gonna be good. Provided you don't mess up.

[TurDz]

I have a solution that no one mentioned and I fixed it today:

me being very anal, I converted 2.4L and 5 1/8 pts into ounces, which is 82oz.

1 quart, which is the size of one bottle of Redline oil, is 32oz.

well, it means I need 2 full bottles plus an extra 18 oz from a 3rd bottle.

So that means I need 14oz left in the last bottle to have the exact capacity, right?

well, using some general volumetric measurements from my handy nalgene water bottle, I poured 14 oz into a disposable container. I dumped the water, filled it with the remaining tranny oil I had in my 3rd bottle of Mt-90. Guess what? I was 4oz off....not too much, right? well, it accounts for about 5% of what should be in the tranny.

So I put that extra 4oz through the shifter hole, take it out for a drive. results? Shifts are quicker (like they should've been originally). To elaborate, the shifter fell into gear much easier. I think I've solved the original "grinding cold start" problem. I just didn't put ENOUGH fluid! Such a small amount made a huge difference in feel and engagement.

I thought that having C's short stroke shifter caused shifting to be notchier and harsher, but that's not the case at all. With proper amount of tranny oil, the shifter reminds me of the stock shifter soft feel w/o the long throws. I feel really careless that I made a small mistake such as above.

As always, I will update if anything new comes up. I don't like making final assessments with one drive.

For the future, please everyone, measure correctly or actually use the fill plug so you don't make the mistake I did. thanks for reading.

^^^ Message originally posted by TurDz on 02-05-2005 at 01:05 AM ^^^

well, here's the edit. The shifting gets smoother a lot quicker after cold starts, but during the 1st minute of driving, I still had a grind from 1->2.

That's really about it. I don't know what to do other than fill it the absolutely correct way, which is through the fill plug and filling right to the hole. I don't have the resources/time right now to do get under the car (while it's level) to check the fluid level. But when I do, I'll post if it made any difference or not.

surprisingly, I tried switching fluid a long time ago (Fall, 04) to try to get rid of a 3rd gear grind, and both Redline heavy shockproof and mt-90 have made my cold starts much harsher.