JDM Engine Prices - Covid or Demand?

[Corbic]

Seems like all the engines have vanished. I'm looking for an RB25 and there just isn't much out there. I get inflation and supply have caused prices to rise from 2008, however, is some of the shortage Covid Related? Or are we really running out of engine blocks?

Can't even find an RD28 or RB30 block.

[feito]

Ive been considering an rb26 engine and trans (awd). I want r33 or even 34 if possible. The most common and cheaper one is the 32 thou, with the 33 following at almost twice the price, and the 34 at pipe dream prices. Before the pandemic, 32 motorsets were plentiful at around 6k, 33 motorsets were a little rarer and were at least 10k. Now? Last I checked on ebay there were only 2 rb26 motorsets, both r32's, priced at around 12k :-/
I havent had the need to look up any other prices lately, but Im sure everything else in the used jdm department is the same.
Im pretty sure it's just the pandemic restrictions plus supply and demand. The only ones providing the demanded parts know this and have gauged their prices accordingly. Lets just hope everything is being overstocked in japan just waiting for the restrictions to be lifted and it all goes back to as close to normal as possible once all this nonsense is over.

[jedi03]

I assumed it was all in correlation with the importing and popularity with all the other price gouging...

[mav1178]

I can't say what the price for the motors are or should be, but the costs related to shipping are very, VERY real.

LCL running 2-4x normal pricing. FCL running 1.5-3x normal pricing. This means a typical 20' container from Japan is about $2-4000+ more expensive in actual dollars.

and about 4-8 weeks worth of delays on top of normal transit times.

[Future240]

^^^To add to this.

I have been randomly checking prices of JDM engines for years now. Prices have been steadily rising and quality (based on the photos) of engines appears to have been going down.

I recall when S14 SR20's and RB25's could be bought for 2500-3000. I noticed in the last few years I saw where s13 Sr's rose to to the 2500 price range and RB25 and Notchtop's were in the 3300-3700 range. Now I have seen them 5k or more.

For instance l just checked ebay. Seems like we are scraping the barrell of swaps. Most of the RB's on there are either long block only or have the auto or AWD transmissions.
.
I could only find one notchtop for 8k.

[Bleakley]

Add to that and trans’s are a f***ing rarity.
If you get one it’s garbage.
Or
If you find one it’s a million dollars.

I like that the aftermarket has stepped up and we can adapt z32 boxes (NOS pieces) and z33 boxes. But it’s getting to the point, it’s stupid.


Again, choices are basically KA, v8, OR —> we keep opening the lane for the Barra. I want one of those in my car SO BAD.

[My!]

^^^.
I could only find one notchtop for 8k.

awesome, time for me to cash out :hsdance:

[smoked240]

I remember in 2009 my RB25 engine and trans with 1 piece DS and mount kit was $2500 shipped to my front door..

Maybe it's time to cash out and sell everything.

Edit: I think it was late 2019, early 2020 I read about Nissans heritage program and it said they were going to revive some of the RB26 parts like the block and head. Not sure how much ground this got since then.

[snags]

is anybody actually suprised??? Look no further than the s30

[BryanSayWhat]

Shits crazy. I haven't looked at SR20DET prices in about a year and for whatever reason decided to look last weekend... $5K for a red top definitely caught me off guard.

I wonder if it also has something to do with the price difference between JDM NA cars vs. JDM turbo cars? Maybe importers wised up to people saving $6K+ on a NA car and then buying a SR20DET separately?

[wezurii]

Demand 100%
Noticed this everywhere, Europe, America, Japan etc
1 unfluence the other etc.

[Kingtal0n]

I have no doubt if I wanted an sr or rb I would need to piece one together and rebuild

However the weight of an L33 engine 5.3L is similar or less than either of those engines and costs a fraction of the price. And it fits into a 240sx as easily as either, and more balanced than an RB or 2J. So I dont see what the big deal is.

Hate all you want but 'modern' (04-07) LS variant aluminum truck engines are superior in almost every respect.

That said, prices of the L33 will follow the sr/rb engines shortly. And there is nothing to replace it directly (gen4 internals with gen3 electronics), so pretty soon it will be in the similar situation. Grab one asap imo or 5 years from now you will be looking back with a similar thread

worst case is, you buy now for cheap and sell in a few years for triple the price and profit.
All of us can win even without installing the engine into anything.

[mav1178]

I wrote the following as an explanation to a friend about shipping delays (and the costs associated with it), it's relevant here...

several layers to ocean freight delays:
- ocean vessel sometimes having to do a 2 week quarantine at sea between ports that normally take 3-5 days (i.e. Singapore to Hanoi or Keelung to Osaka)
- surge of shipments before/after CNY
- surge of shipments before Golden Week (early May)
- most of ocean freight capacity is purchased in advance from cargo liner to large companies that have their own brand (Amazon, Target, any company that sells a ton of goods under a single brand), remaining capacity is sold to freight forwarders and the lowest on the totem pole are the ones that buy one or two containers on a vessel that holds 6000-10000+ containers...
- lack of empty containers outbound from the US (backlog from supply chain disruption from Spring 2020)
- port delays in the US due to COVID-19 related worker sickness, etc

shipments out of Japan are delayed on the outbound side by upwards of a month or more. to get a shipment out in a timely manner one has to resort to Less than Container Load (LCL) which is about 2-4x prices vs a year ago. typically motors will be Full Container Load (FCL) so those are impacted the most.

just think of air travel, but the majority of seats are booked in advance by travel agencies, and you and I fight over the remaining 20-30% of space based on who buys the most seats at a time.

add to that this current problem, and increased shipping costs + shipping lead times makes for scarce supply with the same demands, pricing going up is just a normal supply curve shift with associated price increases.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/25/981128288/it-might-take-weeks-to-free-ship-stuck-in-suez-canal-salvage-company-says

[silviaks2nr]

I have no doubt if I wanted an sr or rb I would need to piece one together and rebuild

However the weight of an L33 engine 5.3L is similar or less than either of those engines and costs a fraction of the price. And it fits into a 240sx as easily as either, and more balanced than an RB or 2J. So I dont see what the big deal is.

Hate all you want but 'modern' (04-07) LS variant aluminum truck engines are superior in almost every respect.

That said, prices of the L33 will follow the sr/rb engines shortly. And there is nothing to replace it directly (gen4 internals with gen3 electronics), so pretty soon it will be in the similar situation. Grab one asap imo or 5 years from now you will be looking back with a similar thread

worst case is, you buy now for cheap and sell in a few years for triple the price and profit.
All of us can win even without installing the engine into anything.

I'd rather just buy another corvette or ss/zl1/z28. I get the cost vs. HP factor of a GM v8, I really do, but we're on the subject of JDM engines.

Nothing beats a JZ or RB26 in an s-chassis for the cool factor IMO. "Covid BS" or not parts prices have gone up as car prices have gone up and these engines are more rare and only getting older. It's just the reality of cars becoming older, more scarce, and more desirable.

[Kingtal0n]

I'd rather just buy another corvette or ss/zl1/z28. I get the cost vs. HP factor of a GM v8, I really do, but we're on the subject of JDM engines.

Nothing beats a JZ or RB26 in an s-chassis for the cool factor IMO. "Covid BS" or not parts prices have gone up as car prices have gone up and these engines are more rare and only getting older. It's just the reality of cars becoming older, more scarce, and more desirable.

The early (04-07) LS truck engines are very similar with JDM engines. Chevrolet mimicked the girdle design, coil on plug, seq-efi, combustion chamber design, piston material science, etc... its all there.

I think of them as two JDM engines put together in a V config

On the subject of those other cars... none are like a 240sx. Corvette is a flashy wana be with some uncouth transaxle to deal with. Camaros and their ilk are easily 1000lbs+ over the 240

None of them are surprising like a 240

And wow factor is a silly reason to hold a car back with an inferior engine and potentially less reliable

I'm just trying to save people some money and gain some performance in the process and maybe even profit along with it

[silviaks2nr]

The early (04-07) LS truck engines are very similar with JDM engines. Chevrolet mimicked the girdle design, coil on plug, seq-efi, combustion chamber design, piston material science, etc... its all there.

I think of them as two JDM engines put together in a V config

On the subject of those other cars... none are like a 240sx. Corvette is a flashy wana be with some uncouth transaxle to deal with. Camaros and their ilk are easily 1000lbs+ over the 240

None of them are surprising like a 240

And wow factor is a silly reason to hold a car back with an inferior engine and potentially less reliable

I'm just trying to save people some money and gain some performance in the process and maybe even profit along with it

I guess I never considered that a JZ/RB could be inferior to a single cam pushrod engine out of a chevy tahoe. Eye opener for sure.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Alex, thanks for that breakdown. It's good to hear from someone with good intel on the shipping industry.

I don't think the purpose of the thread is to figure out whether or not a JDM engine is better or worse than an LS. If an American V8 could fix Corbic's problem, Corbic would probably be looking to buy an American V8.

[Kingtal0n]

I guess I never considered that a JZ/RB could be inferior to a single cam pushrod engine out of a chevy tahoe. Eye opener for sure.

Oh no.
TAHOE engine uses the IRON block variant.

Those are very heavy. I do not think they belong in Nissan 240sx cars.

What I am referring to is the ALUMINUM L33 engine, a very specific model of 5.3L capable of 1200-1600 Horsepower. It is a record breaker, a record holder.

And very affordable. But they do not come in any Tahoe haha.

The reason it is comparable is due to the design and weight. Same OEM piston material science as a 2jz for example. Similar girdle. And so forth
The reason it is superior is due to the displacement and weight. Being lighter and larger does that if it can actually support the additional power that the increase in displacement offers. Most engines cannot make that claim, they may be larger but have severe limitations and upper limits to the power they can support. For example every 5+ liter engine ever made before 2003 by chevrolet is dog shit compared to the 2jz. It wasn't until the L33 that things got spicy. And anything after that is chock full of additional unwanted garbage that makes the swap more complex and difficult to deal with.

And the main reason it is ideal for 240sx swaps specifically is due to it's being a Gen3 electronics, which are the simplest SEQ-EFI to deal with, the least amount of extraneous bullshit to deal with (no VVT no DOD no weird oil issues or gen4 setup to deal with) YET It still contains those Gen4 internals which makes it an easy target for 800rwhp to 1200rwhp setups.

Sorry about the intrusion but I feel that everything that needs to be said about JDM engines and pricing has already been said, and I wanted to bring this to the table as a potentially profitable and or superior swap objective, as few people understand that while those 02-07 truck engines in general are very good, only one of them stands out as a "superior to 2jz/RB" aspect

Mainly this is for those people who don't care about what engine they use, they just want the most power, the most capable, most affordable, easiest to swap, etc.... And the L33 is that stand out option. I want to give everyone hope and open a new opportunity for you guys, because most of this stuff is not really common knowledge among 240sx owners yet. And chances are someone near you has one of these engines available immediately.

[feito]

Aaaaaand it is now an LS vs XX thread.... Jfc what necessity was there to even mention a fucking LS in this thread?... We all know some of you even shit turds shaped like v8's...

[Antihero983]

Hehll, even CAs have been going up in price, which is weird.

[AMD 240]

I work at an importer. Most of the price increase has come from the fact that the cars we are getting the engines from are either legal for import, or are about to be legal. The guys in Japan are charging a lot of money for the engines to recoup some of the money lost by not sending the whole car over. It is also getting harder and harder to find certain engines.

Shipping has gone up quite a bit on both ends. Container rent/shipping prices are around 2k higher than last year. And LTL shipping has gone up a bit as well.

There was a few week period last year where most of the major car auction places in Japan shut down. Which killed inventory and drove prices up even more.

The thing that bugs me the most is.. as a seller it sucks to try to sell an SR20det swap at the current prices, when the guys in Japan don't send the small parts. Like Maf or igniter chips. They rarely send intercoolers or intakes as well.

I still try my best to make sure that the people who buy from my shop get as high a quality engine as possible.

[DRIFTER-M]

Think it’s both, potentially.

AMD above^ has some good insight as well as to one of the current problems.

Honestly the U.S. being able to import has ruined the scene immeasurably, IMO. The ripple affect of the “take a loan and spend everything” style of the car youth here has caused substantial inflation elsewhere, namely Japan who publicly ran news about how high the prices were here and that they should increase the prices there as well (which they did). Makes sense. The difference to this point and why prices were relatively stable for over a decade stems from the fact that many countries are more financially responsible than ours. Our youth has gotten happy with taking 20k loans, co-signed by mom and dad, for a 30 year old car and importers are feasting on that profit, happily. Places like Japan tend to be far more careful financially, but that “get rich” run that begin with the r32 legalization naturally made them want to not get scraped either, and their exporters aren’t stupid to the game.

It’s unfortunate. We use to see good pushback in the scene against price gauging and making dumb decisions, but lately I have seen people sort of celebrating it. The market is the market, so do what you must - but man, as someone who has cared about this scene for over half of my existence now it sucks to see it being ruined in its current state. The community aspect seems long gone. Get rich for that Instagram like tho. I sound more and more like an old ‘get off my lawn’ dude, but dang do I care about the hobby, and man does it suck to see what’s happening. Drifting was the bargain, close knit, anyone jump in and have fun community. Miss that.

[mav1178]

Alex, thanks for that breakdown. It's good to hear from someone with good intel on the shipping industry.


Don't even need intel... I was in Long Beach yesterday afternoon. and looking out at sea, there's around 40 ships just parked outside the LA/LB port complex right now. waiting. for offloading...

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-118.1/centery:33.6/zoom:11

[Future240]

Random but I've always wondered why do we not see any imports from the UK? There has to be a good bit of 200SX's out there.

Heck the German ones even came LHD with SR20's. Seems like that would be the most direct swap for a USDM car.

[mav1178]

Random but I've always wondered why do we not see any imports from the UK? There has to be a good bit of 200SX's out there.

Heck the German ones even came LHD with SR20's. Seems like that would be the most direct swap for a USDM car.

https://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?68661-Did-you-know

There was 5772 S14s TOTAL sold in the UK.

I think all of Europe there was less than 10k S14s sold in total. Let's be generous and say there were 40k S13s sold in Europe total...

By comparison, you have these numbers out of Japan:

180SX total: 74925
S13 Silvia total: 302761
S14 Silvia total: 81076
S15 Silvia total: 38741

Total 240SX sold in the US was around ~251k units across 9 model years.

Keep in mind that used car pricing also drives sales of motors (as a part out). When cars are cheap and not worth much on the resale market, parts become a more lucrative market for junkyards and car lots. Cars in Japan were dirt cheap, when I went to Japan in 2005 and even 2008 I was seeing modified S13s and S14s easily under $5k, and there was no export market for the cars back then because it was illegal to import even into Canada.

So that's why there's no motors out of Europe, at least no one cares to export them out of Europe. No money to be made...

[e1_griego]

I've always wondered about the sales numbers in Japan -- really appreciate you sharing.

[BoredEE]

When I was in the market for a new RB25 ~two years ago I was seeing many modified engines and engines with obvious problems. My assumption is that most of the junkyard motors from the everyday drivers upgrading their cars are gone and all that's left are motors from enthusiast's cars. The enthusiast only got rid of the car once the motor was trashed. I remember when RB25's were going for sub 1k (motor only) back in late 2000's. I miss those days.

[Kingtal0n]

OO I just remembered I have an RB25 packed away in my backyard that still runs

hmmmmm

I bet theres alot of that going around. IF you want a JDM engine I bet somebody has one nearby, maybe make a "lost cat" type of poster and stick it up all around town

Lost!
Lost rare pet sr20
mostly silver with a black top
clipped wings, de-clawed, does not bite
responds to the name "sir sneeze alot"
also goes by "bmissin2cylinders"
Likes to eat corn and laps expensive wine

Reward if found
(reward is a $5 coupon for ice cream)

[PoorMans180SX]

If you haven't checked the prices of guns, gold, graphics cards or most any desirable thing lately: they've all gone up. Inflation is real.

I've watched a few of Robbie Nishida's and Alexi's vids lately and they talk about how rare good condition s-chassis are in Japan even...

We all knew that someday these weren't going to be throwaway cars, and the 201X's surge of "MISSILE CAR IS SO COOL" certainly didn't help. What we're experiencing now is the trifecta of price increases: rarity, desirability, and everyone getting a check in the mail :haha:

[mav1178]

I've always wondered about the sales numbers in Japan -- really appreciate you sharing.

all sales numbers are from the various 180SX/S13 Silvia/S14 Silvia + 200SX/S15 Silvia + 200SX registries.

all the info is out there.

[e1_griego]

Yeah I've just never seemed it actually summed up. Only for US market.

[Future240]

If you haven't checked the prices of guns, gold, graphics cards or most any desirable thing lately: they've all gone up. Inflation is real.:

THIS. MF THIS. I have been wanting to get a Nvidia 3080 which mrsps for $699. They are selling on ebay for 2k+.

Been looking for a few guns, a VR80 a carbine 9mm, etc. All sold out.

[mav1178]

supply chain constraints in the tech industry is what is limiting supply of GPUs and graphics cards. to just paint it as "inflation" is not really describing anything useful to what is happening beyond the whole "price is going up"

[PoorMans180SX]

supply chain constraints in the tech industry is what is limiting supply of GPUs and graphics cards. to just paint it as "inflation" is not really describing anything useful to what is happening beyond the whole "price is going up"

Sorry, supply and demand, supply restrictions, and trillions in handouts. Is that better?

[mav1178]

Sorry, supply and demand, supply restrictions, and trillions in handouts. Is that better?

sure, if you want to think of the US government as the primary producer of tech products in the world.

I get people use "inflation" as slang to describe things, but there are some stuff in the world that requires better terminology for accurate info.

I can type up a long, detailed explanation of why people are buying GPUs for 3-5x MSRP ("inflation", or better yet, personal greed + excessive demand + cryptocurrency pricing 5x in less than 12 months) but if you want to paint a broad brush then I won't contribute to this conversation.

[PoorMans180SX]

sure, if you want to think of the US government as the primary producer of tech products in the world.

I get people use "inflation" as slang to describe things, but there are some stuff in the world that requires better terminology for accurate info.

I can type up a long, detailed explanation of why people are buying GPUs for 3-5x MSRP ("inflation", or better yet, personal greed + excessive demand + cryptocurrency pricing 5x in less than 12 months) but if you want to paint a broad brush then I won't contribute to this conversation.

I know about all these things, I wasn't really trying to dish out all the details of the current market for all the things I listed in my short, very incomplete list of things that were selling for immensely more money than they were even last year. Inflation is a contributing factor given the current state of the U.S. economy, that was my main point. Sorry I wasn't more specific, but this thread is about engines, so I wasn't trying to veer too far off topic.

Just snagged a good redtop block and head for $140. The deals are still out there if you search!

[Future240]

sure, if you want to think of the US government as the primary producer of tech products in the world.

I get people use "inflation" as slang to describe things, but there are some stuff in the world that requires better terminology for accurate info.

I can type up a long, detailed explanation of why people are buying GPUs for 3-5x MSRP ("inflation", or better yet, personal greed + excessive demand + cryptocurrency pricing 5x in less than 12 months) but if you want to paint a broad brush then I won't contribute to this conversation.

Like the worldwide silicon shortage.

No one talks about how entire auto plants have shut down due to this.

Demand for products that need chips from these fabs has jumped across the board.

[mav1178]

Sorry I wasn't more specific, but this thread is about engines, so I wasn'

Like the worldwide silicon shortage.

No one talks about how entire auto plants have shut down due to this.

Demand for products that need chips from these fabs has jumped across the board.

Ironically the shortage of engines is directly related to chip fab capabilities.

Just think of engines as existing suppliers of semiconductor chips. When there is only so much capacity to manufacture (or scour existing markets/yards for engines) you can only sell so many.

Add in a spike in demand with a drop in supply and you have the perfect recipe for price jumps.

In the case of chips, the main spike is a supply chain that is already maxed out, made worse by reduction in manufacturing (Renasas) for a segment that is growing rapidly (advanced chips for automobiles). All the other companies are either maxed out (TSMC/Samsung) or haven't ramped up anything yet to produce. TSMC/Intel/Samsung are all adding a lot of 3rd party fab capability in the next few years, but it's at least 2-3 years before the factories can come online, and that's assuming there's enough qualified engineers to staff the fab lines.

The supply side of engines will figure out a way to find more sources, since everyone is after the same thing (sales/profit). As for where these engines come from, it ultimately will be dictated by who can sell from where, and since prices for complete cars are going up, there is no longer an incentive to sell a motor when you can sell a whole car and recover your car much faster.

(keep in mind motor exporters are not just doing one type of engine. the entire used engine market drives the cost aspect of this because you'd have to import one container at a time to make it worth your trouble)

[smoked240]

Nismo heritage has the blocks listed for 233,600 JPY(2KUSD roughly). Says they are reproducing many of the discontinued parts. There has been talks about it being only in japan but even having the option to purchase a new RB26 block would be awesome.

[Corbic]

Nismo heritage has the blocks listed for 233,600 JPY(2KUSD roughly). Says they are reproducing many of the discontinued parts. There has been talks about it being only in japan but even having the option to purchase a new RB26 block would be awesome.The Heritage stuff seems more like a one time run that quickly sold out.

Front Bumpers, Side Skirts and Fenders are all discontinued again.

[towlie]

...Most of the price increase has come from the fact that the cars we are getting the engines from are either legal for import, or are about to be legal. The guys in Japan are charging a lot of money for the engines to recoup some of the money lost by not sending the whole car over.

I think this is an accurate explanation. Why would an importer pull an sr20 from a 1995 180sx for $2-4k when they could sell the whole car for $15-20k?

Websites like http://fedlegalimports.com/inventory/ show its more profitable to sell the entire beat used car for thousands then it is to pull the drivetrain. supply has officially been depleted.

The question im curious to see is if costs will come down a little bit when normal shipping is resumed (probably 2022). I would be interested to buy an sr20 just to store for years, cost will only continue to rise imo

[Kingtal0n]

Im just gonna wait a few years then pick up an S15, do an FSM rebuild as needed and call it a day



less swaps and more jdm car sideways rowdy noises

[Future240]

Im just gonna wait a few years then pick up an S15, do an FSM rebuild as needed and call it a day



less swaps and more jdm car sideways rowdy noises


Im guessing S15's are going to be mad expensive when they are federally legal.

I think the S15 would be a perfect DD with just a FMIC, exhaust and some coils.

[Corbic]

Im guessing S15's are going to be mad expensive when they are federally legal.



I think the S15 would be a perfect DD with just a FMIC, exhaust and some coils.Aren't the turbos already $20k in Japan?

[Kingtal0n]

Im guessing S15's are going to be mad expensive when they are federally legal.

I think the S15 would be a perfect DD with just a FMIC, exhaust and some coils.

heh. I bought my first S15 back in 2011 I think. A gun metal 1999 with around 130,000km. All original pretty much.

the car was 12k in japan and it cost about 5k to get it here. Illegal as [email protected]#(*# but what did I care back then?
Walked right into the court house and walked out with the registration. Progressive had no issues insuring it.
Gave the car to my father, he drove it to work every day for years lol.


Ahh the good old days. When the time comes, I will find a way. Always do
you gota be willing to take a half a year off, do research and work for it.
I bought it at an auction called "yunikon international". There is a website which allows you to bid on cars and have a third party in Japan secure the car and so forth. Make a friend over seas...
Where there is a will, I always say

For now, its straight line 700hp LS powa for a minute, while i get this taste of blood and metal out of my mouth

[Future240]

Aren't the turbos already $20k in Japan?

More than that.

http://jdm-expo.com/vehicle-inventory/897-nissan-silvia-s15-sale.html

[KC240SR]

Im guessing S15's are going to be mad expensive when they are federally legal.


This, from importers I've spoken to its sounding like $50k-60k could be likely for a Spec-R. What a buzzkill, right?

[mav1178]

Im guessing S15's are going to be mad expensive when they are federally legal.
coils.

Aren't the turbos already $20k in Japan?

This, from importers I've spoken to its sounding like $50k-60k could be likely for a Spec-R. What a buzzkill, right?

Considering the total number of S15s sold worldwide is about 10% of the total number of S13s sold in Japan, expect a 2-5x price premium over the current S13/14 prices.

[wkpainter]

I was going to post something about this in the other thread but...

You can get anything aftermarket for classic american cars. Any body panel you want from multiple companies. No one makes aftermarket OEM style sheet metal for our cars. Cant pick up an sr20 long block from JEGS. We are at the mercy of what is left in existence and every year the supply goes down. Somehow demand is going up. Decent z33's are cheaper than junk s13s. I'm affraid to see if I can still get oem quarter panels for my bugeye wagon. Its going to be a lot harder for japanese classic car fans to keep these cars on the road than american classic car guys.

[solo_ryder]

This, from importers I've spoken to its sounding like $50k-60k could be likely for a Spec-R. What a buzzkill, right?

s15 is going to be a very expensive car. For a clean spec R in Canada right now you are looking at 30-40K+ CAD. Once they are legal in USA... $$$$$

[mav1178]

No one makes aftermarket OEM style sheet metal for our cars. Cant pick up an sr20 long block from JEGS. We are at the mercy of what is left in existence and every year the supply goes down.

I have a large list of parts I'm trying to procure, unfortunately the reality of the market is that no one wants to pay for it.

I am in the process of having a metal S13 Silvia fender pair reproduced... but based on my projections I'm better off buying stocks in airlines now instead of trying to make products for a customer base that complains about car prices going up.

https://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=673437