Ever Seen This? First Time For Me

[s13 @ fullboost]

I have a customer who brings me a 74 510 wagon. Its a basket case from another shop that went out of business (I know why they were butchers).

His complaint is "the car has no power and will not rev past 4000 rpm"

I do my due diligence and check over all the basics,one of the first things a noticed is the timing is set to 20* but the distributor is cocked very far forward vs being center.

Among the many tests I performed in my diagnostic process I did a compression test & got outstanding results so I didn't bother with a leak down.

I strap the car down on my dyno just so I can watch AFR and kinda get a better understanding of whats happening.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49405758413_ab536fa585_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqGV)image0 (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqGV) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
Here is what I see

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406239996_83e54abe37_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTS5)image1 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTS5) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

At this point I am wondering if the ECU is hitting a fuel cut? I double check the neutral safety switch & the 5th gear sensor at the ECU. It all checks out

Next step pull the valve cover and check timing

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406239946_970e6f6d9b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTRd)image2 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTRd) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406435917_fa79975018_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igSU72)image3 (https://flic.kr/p/2igSU72) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406239836_3f2c66d50c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTPj)image4 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTPj) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Not Looking good at all. Time for a phone call & authorization for tear down


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406240301_2045a5e0f5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTXk)3 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTXk) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49405758648_7e35310b3b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqLY)2 (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqLY) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406436422_9c16813d03_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igSUfJ)1 (https://flic.kr/p/2igSUfJ) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Upon Removing the oil pump / front timing cover I noticed some serious contact & scoring.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49405758473_7ff917a8a0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqHX)6 (https://flic.kr/p/2igPqHX) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406240151_7da4bb677d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTUK)5 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTUK) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


When I said earlier that the shop that had done the swap and built the motor were hacks I was not kidding lol Check out the hardware I removed from the oil pump

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406436107_e4296457e8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igSUai)7 (https://flic.kr/p/2igSUai) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Finally we come to an end I get the chain off and see the crank cog & lo and behold

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49406240216_ded7782947_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTVS)4 (https://flic.kr/p/2igRTVS) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


I have never seen it go down like this before. I cannot seem to wrap my head around the fact that I had great compression 210 across the board. These are interference motors...or so I thought.

Have any of you ever seen the crankshaft cog break like this?
I did how ever notice that the intermediate gear was not OE, in conjunction the oil pump was DNJ brand (bad news)

Please give me some thoughts, opinions, suggestions.

Thank you.

[anthony_240]

Wow when you said the distributor was turned all the way one way i was going to tell you to check the lower timing chain but god Daym never seen it ever look like that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[s13 @ fullboost]

Wow when you said the distributor was turned all the way one way i was going to tell you to check the lower timing chain but god Daym never seen it ever look like that




Any thoughts on how the hell I had solid compression and valve didn’t get kissed ?

[mechanicalmoron]

It was floating but staying far enough in it's safe window not to touch, of course - just like in a timing belt job, you totally shouldn't let the cam jump off the springs, but if it does, go strait back and you'll be fine.

You had compression because as long as the valves close low and don't open high, and had not gotten bent yet, you can actually end up with plenty, even too much, with a motor totally out of time and internally badly fuckered (as you found)

Other shop also assumed time was right because of compression or crank quality, and just went to the distributor.

Of course, you might mention to the customer that they want a real tear down or a different motor, if that one has mystery poorly installed performance parts sprinkled all throughout.

[s13 @ fullboost]

It was floating but staying far enough in it's safe window not to touch, of course - just like in a timing belt job, you totally shouldn't let the cam jump off the springs, but if it does, go strait back and you'll be fine.

You had compression because as long as the valves close low and don't open high, and had not gotten bent yet, you can actually end up with plenty, even too much, with a motor totally out of time and internally badly fuckered (as you found)

Other shop also assumed time was right because of compression or crank quality, and just went to the distributor.

Of course, you might mention to the customer that they want a real tear down or a different motor, if that one has mystery poorly installed performance parts sprinkled all throughout.

Good insight, I did discuss another motor with the customer. He wants me to try and save this one if possible. Worse case scenario I will probably sell him a used SR motor set.

I think if I clean the pan out real well, replace the oil pick up, and use all new timing components of quality along with a oil pump it should be okay.

I totally agree with your assumption regarding the shop that originally did the build/put the motor in. Based on the quality of work, its safe to assume they didn't know any better.

Although I will say it fired up easy and freely revved excellent considering my findings. One would think the valve overlap would have caused hard starting conditions. Even under load it was not awful in the low rpm.

Still find this to be astonishing.

[sr70510]

I believe that is a 70 to 72 wagon.

[s13 @ fullboost]

I believe that is a 70 to 72 wagon.


You could be right. Its possible the DMV fudged it. Registration states 74 so that is how I wrote up the repair order.

[mechanicalmoron]

Very nice clean documentation and pictures - you have a youtube channel or something?

[s13 @ fullboost]

Very nice clean documentation and pictures - you have a youtube channel or something?

Thank you, I do try and make it easy to follow along with. Nothing worse then when someone is all over the place.

I do have a channel but it is definitely not what you think. I have been told to start one & record day to day stuff at the shop, but I honest to god do not have time for that.

[s13 @ fullboost]

Some updates

Got my hands on a quality timing kit....Still having a hard time finding a decent oil pump.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49420327133_33e1000cde_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76tK)image3 (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76tK) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Look at the difference on these guides Japanese on the left Chinese on the right.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49420327213_065e00f91f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76v8)image0 (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76v8) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]2/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49420791776_e1a6db1028_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ii9tAQ)image1 (https://flic.kr/p/2ii9tAQ) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Some Pics of it all laced up. Also note the camshaft chain guides were both missing on tear down. I know alot of people do not use the upper one, but deleting the side one?? Is that a thing? I added them they came in my kit.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49421014407_92c4a0e963_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBMi)image4 (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBMi) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49421014352_805325f0b5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBLm)image5 (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBLm) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49420327033_eca4468545_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76s2)image6 (https://flic.kr/p/2ii76s2) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49421014282_79a9afb408_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBK9)image7 (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBK9) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49421014252_11de2fc96b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBJC)image8 (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBJC) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49420791541_30437584e9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ii9twM)image9 (https://flic.kr/p/2ii9twM) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49421014187_68a3cb4404_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBHv)image10 (https://flic.kr/p/2iiaBHv) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

I will add some more photos upon completion of this job. Hopefully these photos can also help anyone unsure of there timing marks in the future.

[Hoffman5982]

If you're still looking for an oil pump I would suggest finding a used oem one(the one that came off looks like a chinese replacement) and buying the oem parts to rebuild it. Do not rebuild the chinese one with oem parts. I read everywhere that it was fine to do that, but when I did it I noticed upon assembly it was extremely tight, and after the motor ate a bearing 1000 miles in I found that the brand new drive gear had cracked.

[s13 @ fullboost]

If you're still looking for an oil pump I would suggest finding a used oem one(the one that came off looks like a chinese replacement) and buying the oem parts to rebuild it. Do not rebuild the chinese one with oem parts. I read everywhere that it was fine to do that, but when I did it I noticed upon assembly it was extremely tight, and after the motor ate a bearing 1000 miles in I found that the brand new drive gear had cracked.

I am trying to find an old stock factory one. The one that came off of it originally is a pile of shit DNJ. Matched the rest of the Chinese garbage. If I can not allocate what I am looking for, then I will go with your suggested route.

[s13 @ fullboost]

Some Updates

So I finally got an oil pump. It was recommended from a personal friend of mine, I trust him. I ran it by the customer & he was also okay with it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49458024198_563fc01e05_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imriv9)oil pump (https://flic.kr/p/2imriv9) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Here of some shots of it starting to go back together.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49458024348_9c850210fd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imrixJ)almost there (https://flic.kr/p/2imrixJ) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49458732587_0f71023746_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imuW5K)front end (https://flic.kr/p/2imuW5K) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Got it all done, set timing (funny now the distributor is dead center at 20*) Bleeding the cooling system & finishing touches before its back to the dyno.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49458024273_d720967665_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imriwr)complete (https://flic.kr/p/2imriwr) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr



Now the moment of truth. I present to you the before & after.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49458498296_e050ae3ff0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imtJrf)before & after (https://flic.kr/p/2imtJrf) by Hasan Hamade (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


Almost double the power!! Torque curve is impressive.


End result - Customer is ecstatic & very happy. I am also happy to see this vehicle leave my shop after its two week residency.

[S14rebuild]

Doesnt seem like alot of space to play with, but you dont see any drawback from the intake right about the header, seems like your getting nothing but high iat

[s13 @ fullboost]

Doesnt seem like alot of space to play with, but you dont see any drawback from the intake right about the header, seems like your getting nothing but high iat

I see major draw back lol That is how the car came in. I had mentioned it to the customer but he declined to have me make him a new one.

[S14rebuild]

I see major draw back lol That is how the car came in. I had mentioned it to the customer but he declined to have me make him a new one.


Gotcha, was just really shocked in what i saw

[TheRealSy90]

Man KA's really fall on their face over 5k lol. Great job diagnosing and replacing everything though!

[s13 @ fullboost]

Man KA's really fall on their face over 5k lol. Great job diagnosing and replacing everything though!

They absolutely hate high rpm lol the torque curve is impressive for what it is though.

[NukeKS14]

Thanks for sharing. Seems like you got it sorted out. This is exactly why I used 100% OEM timing components on my rebuild. I've never seen anything like that on the main timing chain. Just disintegrated guides that end up in the oil pickup.

Oem components to rebuild the oil pump (gears, spring and washers) ran me around $80 on mine after inspecting the inside for wear on the the casing/timing cover. Understanding your customer already had their timing cover replaced w a cheap knockoff but I always recommend keeping the OEM cover and just rebuilding the pump provided the sides of the housing arent worn too much. Pack that sucker with a bit of axle grease and turn by hand, itll develop suction a lot faster during the prime prior to initial startup. Tossing my .02 in on that in case someone runs across this in the future.

These KAs benefit GREATLY from a camshaft upgrade, regarding falling on their face in higher revs. Should be a fun car for your customer though. That intake....:nono:

[s13 @ fullboost]

Thanks for sharing. Seems like you got it sorted out. This is exactly why I used 100% OEM timing components on my rebuild. I've never seen anything like that on the main timing chain. Just disintegrated guides that end up in the oil pickup.

Oem components to rebuild the oil pump (gears, spring and washers) ran me around $80 on mine after inspecting the inside for wear on the the casing/timing cover. Understanding your customer already had their timing cover replaced w a cheap knockoff but I always recommend keeping the OEM cover and just rebuilding the pump provided the sides of the housing arent worn too much. Pack that sucker with a bit of axle grease and turn by hand, itll develop suction a lot faster during the prime prior to initial startup. Tossing my .02 in on that in case someone runs across this in the future.

These KAs benefit GREATLY from a camshaft upgrade, regarding falling on their face in higher revs. Should be a fun car for your customer though. That intake....:nono:

lol Yeah the intake is retarded but oh well. I am sure after he recovers & enjoys his car a bit we will do something to address it. I agree OEM all the way. They are hard to come bye these days.

[Kingtal0n]

that engine lucky to have you

[s13 @ fullboost]

that engine lucky to have you

lol thank you for the kind words. Just happy I was able to help my customer after his hardship.