Low oil pressure hot lapping, oil cooler setup recommendations

[doridoridori]

So recently went to a drift event a week ago and at a point saw my oil pressure gauge hanging around the 8-9psi mark after hot lapping a few times coolant temps were 185-190F so not crazy hot. I let the car cool down and parked it for a while. Didn't make any noises or anything like that.

Im running an AEM oil pressure gauge so it isn't really a cheap gauge and it's pretty accurate. So I'm wondering if #1 my oil pump is starting to go out, the engine is pretty freshly rebuilt (maybe 5-6k miles on it) but the oil pump was re-used but the engine was mint and really low miles before refreshing the engine anyway. #2 the gauge sensor might be a little off but i doubt it, the gauge/sensor isn't that old or #3 i need an oil cooler.

It's a redtop SR, S14 T28 at 10psi, 550cc injectors, z32 maf.

any suggestions or help would be appreciated

also i want to get an oil cooler anyway, if anyone has any bolt on oil cooler suggestions it'd be appreciated

[S14rebuild]

Before anything, confirm true oil pressure with a good mechanic oil pressure gauge. And what oil temps are you getting?

If it is true low oil pressure, could.be few issuses...improper tolerances on the rebuild, failing oil pump would be main conern.

What oil weight are u running?

[mechanicalmoron]

Who do you actually know that's had an oil pump fail?

I'm sure it's possible...

You're asking if your temps are related to the pressures, so, you obviously need to figure out the temps and think about oil weights, if you think the pump was installed right.

[spooled240]

Did the oil pressure have better readings after the engine cooled off?

I think it's crazy some of you SR guys don't run an oil cooler. Do they even have a heat exchanger? High rev's, an aluminum block and the little screaming t2 turbo's will heat the oil up very quickly. Spun rod bearing seem to always plague the SR's after a hard track day which makes me wonder what the oil temps are.

For the cooler, I'd go big. I installed one of these on my KA-T and my oil temps went from 125*C to 85*C. It's massive and barely fits in the area where the windshield washer reservoir used to be. I don't run a thermostat as it's not really needed in Socal imo.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61NcfhrVGnL._AC_SL1125_.jpg

[S14rebuild]

Who do you actually know that's had an oil pump fail?

I'm sure it's possible...

You're asking if your temps are related to the pressures, so, you obviously need to figure out the temps and think about oil weights, if you think the pump was installed right.

Not a complete failure, but could be producing low oil oil pressure..bad pressure valve, ive seen oil pumps with scoring produce proper oil pressure at cold temps and at operating temps very low pressure.

Ive seen multiple oil pumps fail btw. Just tryn to help the op thats all

[doridoridori]

Before anything, confirm true oil pressure with a good mechanic oil pressure gauge. And what oil temps are you getting?

If it is true low oil pressure, could.be few issuses...improper tolerances on the rebuild, failing oil pump would be main conern.

What oil weight are u running?


yea i can do that, and i don't think it's an issue with the tolerances on the rebuild because if that were the case i would have had issues with oil pressure from the get-go. It's been something i've noticed recently but not in the past. Also im running 15w40 but only because im in TX gets pretty hot over here.

[doridoridori]

Who do you actually know that's had an oil pump fail?

I'm sure it's possible...

You're asking if your temps are related to the pressures, so, you obviously need to figure out the temps and think about oil weights, if you think the pump was installed right.


I had a buddy that also runs an SR his oil pump died on him in the middle of a sweeper (this summer) had his gopro on and his gauge ended up reading 0 after a while and he caught it too late. Oil pumps are mechanically driven but it is a part that can fail i don't know why ppl assume they never fail even if you never seen one fail lol

i don't have an oil temp gauge only oil pressure but i'd imagine maybe temps got high enough to thin out the oil to cause the pressure to drop to 8-9psi that is IF the oil pump isn't going out

[doridoridori]

Did the oil pressure have better readings after the engine cooled off?

I think it's crazy some of you SR guys don't run an oil cooler. Do they even have a heat exchanger? High rev's, an aluminum block and the little screaming t2 turbo's will heat the oil up very quickly. Spun rod bearing seem to always plague the SR's after a hard track day which makes me wonder what the oil temps are.

For the cooler, I'd go big. I installed one of these on my KA-T and my oil temps went from 125*C to 85*C. It's massive and barely fits in the area where the windshield washer reservoir used to be. I don't run a thermostat as it's not really needed in Socal imo.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61NcfhrVGnL._AC_SL1125_.jpg

yea personally i been meaning to get one but i only drive the car at events so i hadn't gotten one yet but it's next up on the to buy list. and yes when the coolant temps dropped the oil pressure got better naturally. Considering the coolant temps and oil temps can effect each other. What brand is that oil cooler?

[spooled240]

yea personally i been meaning to get one but i only drive the car at events so i hadn't gotten one yet but it's next up on the to buy list. and yes when the coolant temps dropped the oil pressure got better naturally. Considering the coolant temps and oil temps can effect each other. What brand is that oil cooler?

Your oil was probably hot as f

https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Cool-L7B-ENGINE-OIL-COOLER/dp/B003TPUL2K/ref=asc_df_B003TPUL2K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312153119455&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8254245264184796711&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061215&hvtargid=pla-568499912833&psc=1

[doridoridori]

Your oil was probably hot as f

https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Cool-L7B-ENGINE-OIL-COOLER/dp/B003TPUL2K/ref=asc_df_B003TPUL2K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312153119455&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8254245264184796711&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061215&hvtargid=pla-568499912833&psc=1

very possible, definitely don't doubt it, could you dm me some pics of how you have yours mounted if you don't mind?

[spooled240]

very possible, definitely don't doubt it, could you dm me some pics of how you have yours mounted if you don't mind?

Best photo I have as this was done over 5 years ago. The cooler is on the passenger side and angled back so the two ports are facing the engine. I used a hole saw to cut a hole to allow the upper hose to go through some sheet metal near the frame rail. This thing is massive and barely fits lol. The top is flush with the bottom of the battery tray surface and the bottom is flush with my aftermarket bumper. I could probably knock another 10-20* off the oil temps if I made some ducting for it.
https://scontent.fsan1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10649677_936750663004974_5672029785562275090_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=PDf2AlCLa8cAQlPUDPC05VVSLjxRsjTJnHM2NLGREI fupUoUiIcyKprNw&_nc_ht=scontent.fsan1-1.fna&oh=9f6a129382b5bb89dce04da960fd222e&oe=5E69BFC5

[doridoridori]

Best photo I have as this was done over 5 year ago. The cooler is on the passenger side and angled back so the two ports are facing the engine. I used a hole saw to cut a hole to allow the upper hose to go through some sheet metal near the frame rail. This thing is massive and barely fits lol. The top is flush with the bottom of the battery tray surface and the bottom is flush with my aftermarket bumper. I could probably knock another 10-20* off if I made some ducting for it.
https://scontent.fsan1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10649677_936750663004974_5672029785562275090_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=PDf2AlCLa8cAQlPUDPC05VVSLjxRsjTJnHM2NLGREI fupUoUiIcyKprNw&_nc_ht=scontent.fsan1-1.fna&oh=9f6a129382b5bb89dce04da960fd222e&oe=5E69BFC5

dope, looks like it's in a good spot to get airflow as well. Not 100% sure i'll go with that exact one but just getting some ideas, or might get the greddy kit seems to be pretty decent

[jedi03]

https://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f4/motor-oil-101-a-721/
https://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f4/motor-oil-102-a-744/

[lewisfk]

I would purchase accusump oil accumulator and mishimoto oil cooler. This is the best setup for under 500 dollars and gives you a piece of mind.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/categories/accusump-oil-accumulator.html

https://www.mishimoto.com/automotive/oil-cooler-kits-components.html?limit=all

[mechanicalmoron]

I had a buddy that also runs an SR his oil pump died on him in the middle of a sweeper (this summer) had his gopro on and his gauge ended up reading 0 after a while and he caught it too late. Oil pumps are mechanically driven but it is a part that can fail i don't know why ppl assume they never fail even if you never seen one fail lol

i don't have an oil temp gauge only oil pressure but i'd imagine maybe temps got high enough to thin out the oil to cause the pressure to drop to 8-9psi that is IF the oil pump isn't going out

You have a buddy with a video of him running out of oil. The oil pump is the most lubricated part of the engine, that holds totally gentle pressures compared to many parts of the engine. If your oil pump failed, it's your fault, one way or another.

(except for specific engines - doubt you have a 5.4 in a 240 - any engine with such a problem obviously shouldn't be used, at least without retrofit and knowledge of the problem)

I know SR's may have some oiling problems, I don't work on them, but that's still ridiculous.

[doridoridori]

You have a buddy with a video of him running out of oil. The oil pump is the most lubricated part of the engine, that holds totally gentle pressures compared to many parts of the engine. If your oil pump failed, it's your fault, one way or another.

(except for specific engines - doubt you have a 5.4 in a 240 - any engine with such a problem obviously shouldn't be used, at least without retrofit and knowledge of the problem)

I know SR's may have some oiling problems, I don't work on them, but that's still ridiculous.

well he was recording his laps and his gauge went to zero after a while. Unfortunately on gopros you can't play the footage back right there so he didn't notice but he had oil in the engine needless to say but the oil pump went out. Also that's not true, oil pumps aren't designed to last forever they can go bad, if they didn't they wouldn't make replacement oil pumps. He had been drifting his car all season and changes oil after every event (i do the same thing) but yea oil pumps can fail even if it doesn't happen often or if you haven't seen it doesn't mean they don't. I had a LS400 1UZ the oil pump took a crap on me leaving the grocery store, had oil in it at the right level never opened the engine up, no leaks 200k on the engine more or less. I Left the store and the pressure wasn't reading and got halfway down the street and heard the bearings making a ton of noise, prior to that day the engine was perfectly fine ZERO issues, shit happens.

[mechanicalmoron]

well he was recording his laps and his gauge went to zero after a while. Unfortunately on gopros you can't play the footage back right there so he didn't notice but he had oil in the engine needless to say but the oil pump went out. Also that's not true, oil pumps aren't designed to last forever they can go bad, if they didn't they wouldn't make replacement oil pumps. He had been drifting his car all season and changes oil after every event (i do the same thing) but yea oil pumps can fail even if it doesn't happen often or if you haven't seen it doesn't mean they don't. I had a LS400 1UZ the oil pump took a crap on me leaving the grocery store, had oil in it at the right level never opened the engine up, no leaks 200k on the engine more or less. I Left the store and the pressure wasn't reading and got halfway down the street and heard the bearings making a ton of noise, prior to that day the engine was perfectly fine ZERO issues, shit happens.

Losing oil pressure does not mean your oil pump failed.

Anything is possible, but it still didn't happen.

[doridoridori]

Losing oil pressure does not mean your oil pump failed.

Anything is possible, but it still didn't happen.

well in his situation after the engine was out he had a shop diag it and they said the oil pump failed, machined a new block, new oil pump, water pump etc and he was good to go. Not sure why you don't believe oil pumps can fail or if you're trolling but oil pumps can go bad, and usually before they do you gradually start to lose pressure before they go out. Also had another buddy start to notice he was getting lower and lower oil pressure on cold starts (started seeing 20psi ) when cold he eventually pulled the engine changed out his oil pump and that solved his problem before it got worse. We talked about it because I was trying to diag a similar issue years back.

[mechanicalmoron]

well in his situation after the engine was out he had a shop diag it and they said the oil pump failed, machined a new block, new oil pump, water pump etc and he was good to go. Not sure why you don't believe oil pumps can fail or if you're trolling but oil pumps can go bad, and usually before they do you gradually start to lose pressure before they go out. Also had another buddy start to notice he was getting lower and lower oil pressure on cold starts (started seeing 20psi ) when cold he eventually pulled the engine changed out his oil pump and that solved his problem before it got worse. We talked about it because I was trying to diag a similar issue years back.
Got pictures of the grenaded oil pump? Gouges in vanes or the surfaces they ride on? Anything? What was the nature of the failure?

Again, it can. It's just about the rarest engine part to fail - a sender is much more common, as is some other failure or wear that causes pressure issues, and even does cause pump damage or contamination that would be the end of diagnosis for many people (like, apparently, you), who would declare it to be yet another mysteriously bad oil pump.

[S14rebuild]

Got pictures of the grenaded oil pump? Gouges in vanes or the surfaces they ride on? Anything? What was the nature of the failure?

Again, it can. It's just about the rarest engine part to fail - a sender is much more common, as is some other failure or wear that causes pressure issues, and even does cause pump damage or contamination that would be the end of diagnosis for many people (like, apparently, you), who would declare it to be yet another mysteriously bad oil pump.


Op asked for help, not for sumone who has to prove his point(which he is wrong about) to help solve an issuse.

Oil pumps fail...EVERY MENCHANICAL MOVING COMPONENT has a life span. Basic friction, and wear will eventually cause a pump to fail.

But by all means if u so have to PROVE your point, pay the op to ship his motor to you. Tear it down, pay to have the metal checked, oil content checked and come back with ur findings. And please rub it in all our faces.

[mechanicalmoron]

Op asked for help, not for sumone who has to prove his point(which he is wrong about) to help solve an issuse.

Oil pumps fail...EVERY MENCHANICAL MOVING COMPONENT has a life span. Basic friction, and wear will eventually cause a pump to fail.

But by all means if u so have to PROVE your point, pay the op to ship his motor to you. Tear it down, pay to have the metal checked, oil content checked and come back with ur findings. And please rub it in all our faces.

It's not that I'm right, it's that you're full of shit.

You reverted to the "every part fails" logical fallacy. Sure, they do, absolutely dead last, no matter what lazy shop told some bros it was their oil pump.

He asked about hot oil pressure. I said find out how hot the oil is, you said "it's your oil pump brah:hey:".

[S14rebuild]

It's not that I'm right, it's that you're full of shit.

You reverted to the "every part fails" logical fallacy. Sure, they do, absolutely dead last, no matter what lazy shop told some bros it was their oil pump.

He asked about hot oil pressure. I said find out how hot the oil is, you said "it's your oil pump brah:hey:".


Not full of shit.....just cause u havent seen it doesnt mean its never happend.

And apprently u cant read.....look over my first post again before u say something...i gave suggestions.

But ur here tryn to state facts when ur wrong brah :hey:

[doridoridori]

Not full of shit.....just cause u havent seen it doesnt mean its never happend.

And apprently u cant read.....look over my first post again before u say something...i gave suggestions.

But ur here tryn to state facts when ur wrong brah :hey:

THIS is what im saying lol, just because he hasn't seen it happen doesn't mean it has never happened. Sure it doesn't happen often and is the least likely to happen doesn't mean it has never happened. There's all kinds of threads on SR guys that have had oil pumps fail.

On top of that in my post i never said it was what i thought failed but a possibility hence why i want to get an oil cooler to see if that helps (which im sure it will)

[spooled240]

The fact that the oil pressure increased as it cooled down is a sure indication that the oil overheated.

[S14rebuild]

The fact that the oil pressure increased as it cooled down is a sure indication that the oil overheated.


Total agreeed. Figured this out posts ago...but somone wants to keep swingn his keyboard dick around on the thread and its annoying as fuck...

[nick_d_240sx]

Have you checked the oil pressure relief valve?

Shimming it can raise your oil pressure.

[doridoridori]

Total agreeed. Figured this out posts ago...but somone wants to keep swingn his keyboard dick around on the thread and its annoying as fuck...

very annoying

[doridoridori]

The fact that the oil pressure increased as it cooled down is a sure indication that the oil overheated.


exactly why i was leaning more towards getting an oil cooler first just to see if that remedies the issue, however the coolant temps weren't crazy high so it made me think otherwise. Going to try and get a oil cooler kit real soon

[doridoridori]

Have you checked the oil pressure relief valve?

Shimming it can raise your oil pressure.

That i have not, but is that more of a "band-aid" type of fix?

[spooled240]

exactly why i was leaning more towards getting an oil cooler first just to see if that remedies the issue, however the coolant temps weren't crazy high so it made me think otherwise. Going to try and get a oil cooler kit real soonYou can have ok coolant temps and very high oil temps at the same time

[nick_d_240sx]

That i have not, but is that more of a "band-aid" type of fix?

This is a common technique used in rotary engines. You could call it a 'band-aid' or you could call it a 'mod'. I have not done it on a SR20. The spring in the relief valve could be weak or faulty or this could be another issue all together. Seems like it's only sold as part of the front cover oil pump assembly. Just a suggestion. An oil cooler is always a good idea for track and drifting. Good luck.

You can search, oil pump shim, or oil regulator shim or oil relief valve shim for more info.

[jedi03]

you basically want a certain pressure at a certain temp and RPM range...if you are doing something that causes that to exceed those parameters eg tracking, there needs to be other items in place to help maintain everything within those specs...cant just throw parts at it...prior post is great read for all to learn more!

[doridoridori]

You can have ok coolant temps and very high oil temps at the same time

that is true, at the time i wasn't thinking about that. Usually the thought process is (the hotter the coolant temps the hotter the oil should be) however, I forget the oil temps don't drop as soon as the coolant temps do

[doridoridori]

This is a common technique used in rotary engines. You could call it a 'band-aid' or you could call it a 'mod'. I have not done it on a SR20. The spring in the relief valve could be weak or faulty or this could be another issue all together. Seems like it's only sold as part of the front cover oil pump assembly. Just a suggestion. An oil cooler is always a good idea for track and drifting. Good luck.

You can search, oil pump shim, or oil regulator shim or oil relief valve shim for more info.

roger that, hadn't heard of that before but i'll keep it in mind. Going to try the oil cooler out first and see how it goes, next event isn't until march so I have a little bit of time to fix what needs to be fixed and test everything in due time. I definitely appreciate the help and info

[Kingtal0n]

holy shit its 2020

1. SR oil pumps fail, even with all original engines. I have a friend who did the swap back in 2001 using an S15 engine no less. He drove that car daily until 2018.

In 17' He asks me about this noise his engine was making. The VTC rattle, of course, getting worse. He already had a next VTC gear to swap on, but when he started the engine I heard it at idle in such a different way than they do when they are bad. It was like the oil couldn't stay inside it. I realized the engine must have 200k on it and told him to change the oil pump, right away.

A year later oil pump failed, toasted the bottom end while cruising, engine is trash now, gone.

2. 'higher level engines' (cough* "serious" racing) don't set oil pressure, they set oil flow. Pressure is just a consequence and not a measurable quantity concerning oil flow. e.g. cold oil, higher pressure, less overall flow, that sort of nature/relationship may go against common sense to some.

3. Oil coolers are great but there is one thing I warn everybody about. I've seen more than one engine failure because an oil cooler line got pinched. For whatever reason people love to use that bendy rubber braided hose shit (cheap?).

If you really love your engine, you will use the stiffly teflon style lines that do not bend or close up easily.

[doridoridori]

holy shit its 2020

1. SR oil pumps fail, even with all original engines. I have a friend who did the swap back in 2001 using an S15 engine no less. He drove that car daily until 2018.

In 17' He asks me about this noise his engine was making. The VTC rattle, of course, getting worse. He already had a next VTC gear to swap on, but when he started the engine I heard it at idle in such a different way than they do when they are bad. It was like the oil couldn't stay inside it. I realized the engine must have 200k on it and told him to change the oil pump, right away.

A year later oil pump failed, toasted the bottom end while cruising, engine is trash now, gone.

2. 'higher level engines' (cough* "serious" racing) don't set oil pressure, they set oil flow. Pressure is just a consequence and not a measurable quantity concerning oil flow. e.g. cold oil, higher pressure, less overall flow, that sort of nature/relationship may go against common sense to some.

3. Oil coolers are great but there is one thing I warn everybody about. I've seen more than one engine failure because an oil cooler line got pinched. For whatever reason people love to use that bendy rubber braided hose shit (cheap?).

If you really love your engine, you will use the stiffly teflon style lines that do not bend or close up easily.

1. - exactly, it's crazy someone thinks an oil pump isn't a part that can actually fail but it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities, everything on an engine has an expiration date.

3. thanks for the info, im looking at a few oil cooler kits, do you know where i can get those lines? maybe have any photos of them? maybe whatever kit i get i can upgrade the lines before i install the kit

[Kingtal0n]

It's sold in ebay just like the cheap braided synthetic rubber stuff, but under the name PTFE which is teflon. And the price is similar.

Unlike the synthetic rubber you can't just clamp it anywhere (with a hose clamp) as the inner lining is very stiff PTFE material.
PTFE lines require a ferrul and different kind of fitting so be sure you get the right ends.
example listing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PTFE-Seal-Hose-End-Fitting-Banjo-Fitting-for-Braided-PTFE-Oil-Gas-Fuel-Line-Hose/282735087125?hash=item41d4530e15:m:mqAIH_Nd_gms-G7k43ot5og