redtop SR20DET proper running temp

[dsastr_clan]

Hello,

I just got finishing my s13 sr20det swap. I added a temp gauge to monitor the running temperature. I just replaced the water pump due to a small leak with an OEM Nissan SR water pump. My sr is running at around 190 to 198 (today is pretty hot over 90F) per aftermarket gauge.

I have a Greedy front mount and efans. I have been looking and searching in the forum for a definitive answer but I find so much conflicting info on the operating temp that it isnt helping. Can anyone please chip in? It's making me a bit paranoic.

I tried looking the sr FSM but couldnt find the specs for the temp. Any info is appreciated.

Thank you

[dsastr_clan]

https://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll12/dsastr_clan/67148550_635598813606045_6500402533998002176_n.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/dsastr_clan/media/67148550_635598813606045_6500402533998002176_n.jpg .html)


https://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll12/dsastr_clan/64725066_1299307063550729_8076170840275681280_n.jp g (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/dsastr_clan/media/64725066_1299307063550729_8076170840275681280_n.jp g.html)

[dorkidori_s13]

thats about normal on an OEM thermostat in an SR if in stop and go traffic (or just getting off the fwy)... especially if on a stock radiator.

are you running the OEM clutch fan + shroud?

[jscherf92]

You're right around 188F, quick searches will tell you anything from 185-205 is "operating temp" and will vary based on your location, coolant mix and rad/fan setup. Occasional spikes will be fine but regularly seeing 215-220F+ may be a reason to start looking for problems.

[dsastr_clan]

thats about normal on an OEM thermostat in an SR if in stop and go traffic (or just getting off the fwy)... especially if on a stock radiator.

are you running the OEM clutch fan + shroud?

Thank you, I forgot to add that i'm running a Koyo radiator and a set of 2 12' eletric fans, no shroud and they are just ebay fans that I had from a previous swap.

[dsastr_clan]

You're right around 188F, quick searches will tell you anything from 185-205 is "operating temp" and will vary based on your location, coolant mix and rad/fan setup. Occasional spikes will be fine but regularly seeing 215-220F+ may be a reason to start looking for problems.

Awesome, thank you for the info!

[Kingtal0n]

its barely hanging on with those fans.

I suggest immediately upgrade to a pair of high quality shrouded electric fans,
such as

https://i.postimg.cc/T12hdP7d/fan.png

[dsastr_clan]

its barely hanging on with those fans.

I suggest immediately upgrade to a pair of high quality shrouded electric fans,
such as

https://i.postimg.cc/T12hdP7d/fan.png


you right, I think those fans aren't cutting it. I just ordered the Altima fans. Did you wire yours to kick in on high speed?

[dorkidori_s13]

Thank you, I forgot to add that i'm running a Koyo radiator and a set of 2 12' eletric fans, no shroud and they are just ebay fans that I had from a previous swap.

get rid of those fans and get yourself a clutch fan set up again. e-fans in our cars are an absolute waste of time and money.

[wurley]

First real drive with my car over the weekend and the highest I saw was 181F.
Stock clutch fan and radiator.
Ive had it idling for 20+ minutes; doesn't get over 165. I don't think anything beats the stock clutch fan

[dorkidori_s13]

First real drive with my car over the weekend and the highest I saw was 181F.
Stock clutch fan and radiator.
Ive had it idling for 20+ minutes; doesn't get over 165. I don't think anything beats the stock clutch fan

165-185 range is what the NISMO thermostat operates at. also, simple idling wont cause the motor to increase in temp past its base heat level. putting the motor under a load is what brings temperatures up.

[Kingtal0n]

clutch fan works great

high quality electric fans work great

the clutch is simple. simplicity and it works well is the main benefit.

Electric fans, there are three things not simple:
1. getting a large enough (pair) of fan
2. feeding the current draw successfully of electric fan(s)
3. shrouding the fan properly (mounting)

The altima fans are large(1). They draw alot of current, perhaps up to 80amps when first turned on high (current spike). Therefore you will need to use THREE typical 40-amp automotive relays to power 2x fans. Even if each fan only used 40amps (or 35 amps) you still wouldn't want to rely on a 40amp relay to handle 35amps of constant current, its just not smart, they make alot of heat, and something will melt. I guarantee it after seeing it happen so many times which is why I am taking the time to write this out explicitly.
so,
a. Get the right size relays/wire, use 120~ amp worth of relay to drive two 40 amp fans
b. make sure the alternator is up to the task (Nissan should be fine, this is more for other platforms) just be aware of voltage drop and 20 year old alternators, and electric fans that pull high current.

Finally 3. Shroud it properly, make the shroud AIR TIGHT. I use junkyard flexible aluminum heat shield materials (the yellow core soft to bend stuff, that cuts with scissors) its flexible and insulative, and stuff enough to put holes in and zip ties or bolts through it.

Where to get relays
-60amp relay from Ebay
-60/40amp relay in junkyard from SAAB
https://i.postimg.cc/vTZp3WXX/IMG-2368.jpg
I used this one for fuel pump, ecu power, and two more things I have yet to decide
Handy little relay box is water tight and features 4x relays 4x fuses, one of them is a big 60/80-amp relay with the extra large spades and a matching huge fuse 60/80 amp.

[blksylv]

Is there anyway to help an sr run cooler with ac on. at a stop it runs around 185ish but starts to warm up during freeway speeds at 90 degrees plus outside. I can click off the ac and the temp will dip back under 185 fairly quickly, running a nismo thermostat, dual fal , fans, 50/50 coolant and a blitz zs radiator. I can honestly sit and idle with the ac on with no issues of it heating up.

[dsastr_clan]

Thank you for the info! I'm looking into relays right now, you are totally right! I'll be hooking up the fans to a relay system. What do you think about this relay?Its a 120amp one.

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE-Charge-Switch/dp/B01N1IEWCU/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=60+amp+relay&qid=1563295465&s=gateway&sr=8-5


clutch fan works great

high quality electric fans work great

the clutch is simple. simplicity and it works well is the main benefit.

Electric fans, there are three things not simple:
1. getting a large enough (pair) of fan
2. feeding the current draw successfully of electric fan(s)
3. shrouding the fan properly (mounting)

The altima fans are large(1). They draw alot of current, perhaps up to 80amps when first turned on high (current spike). Therefore you will need to use THREE typical 40-amp automotive relays to power 2x fans. Even if each fan only used 40amps (or 35 amps) you still wouldn't want to rely on a 40amp relay to handle 35amps of constant current, its just not smart, they make alot of heat, and something will melt. I guarantee it after seeing it happen so many times which is why I am taking the time to write this out explicitly.
so,
a. Get the right size relays/wire, use 120~ amp worth of relay to drive two 40 amp fans
b. make sure the alternator is up to the task (Nissan should be fine, this is more for other platforms) just be aware of voltage drop and 20 year old alternators, and electric fans that pull high current.

Finally 3. Shroud it properly, make the shroud AIR TIGHT. I use junkyard flexible aluminum heat shield materials (the yellow core soft to bend stuff, that cuts with scissors) its flexible and insulative, and stuff enough to put holes in and zip ties or bolts through it.

Where to get relays
-60amp relay from Ebay
-60/40amp relay in junkyard from SAAB
https://i.postimg.cc/vTZp3WXX/IMG-2368.jpg
I used this one for fuel pump, ecu power, and two more things I have yet to decide
Handy little relay box is water tight and features 4x relays 4x fuses, one of them is a big 60/80-amp relay with the extra large spades and a matching huge fuse 60/80 amp.

[Kingtal0n]

It looks like a nice relay. Only thing constant with electronics is to keep it cool/in a cool place. 120amps in one spot, if it goes you are dead. Better to have two 2x 60-amp so if one dies you got a backup. Or keep a spare in the car. I put an LED On the current forward wire of the relay so I can tell when or if they fail. Even better yet if there are three relays. One dies and it might actually survive for quite a while. Two is one and one is none

[Kingtal0n]

Is there anyway to help an sr run cooler with ac on. at a stop it runs around 185ish but starts to warm up during freeway speeds at 90 degrees plus outside. I can click off the ac and the temp will dip back under 185 fairly quickly, running a nismo thermostat, dual fal , fans, 50/50 coolant and a blitz zs radiator. I can honestly sit and idle with the ac on with no issues of it heating up.

use more water = use as little antifreeze as possible for where you live
try a de-foaming agent "Water additive"
try different fans and shrouds
improve duct work
use a coolant bleeding system
clean the aluminum radiator and constantly wet it to help heat dissipation

also, whats "high temp"? undefined so far

Temp Range
200*F would be normal and actually kind of low at highway speeds with A/C on if the vehicle has a large FMIC and typical layers of rad condenser. 212*F would be acceptable using standard radiator cap which I think goes somewhere around 250*F, each psi is worth 2-3*F. 213*F+ I would start to throw some changes mentioned above to keep it away from 220*F at all costs and that is just because the engines I use are kind of old and I like to treat them that way. Some newer motors will go 240*F and higher but I doubt sr20 or gen3/4 LS would enjoy that very much. It seems abnormal. And thats sort of what I am pointing out that often times we go by 'feel' instead of accurate numbers. Which is fine because sometimes the way something feels is useful and can be related to numerical data in meaningful ways. In this and similar examples with 'older' engines there are exceptions for usual circumstances, they and their owners develop an 'offset' approach that goes beyond what the service manual says, hard won knowledge after costly trial and error or just preventative maintenance

[blksylv]

It usually starts to creep to 212 then i turn it off and it drops back to 180. In stop and go traffic its fine. Just high way speeds is when it starts to warm up. Motor was rebuilt again last fall but its done the same thing for a few years now to be honest.

[dsastr_clan]

Im getting the fans on Friday, I will post updates. I'm using a relay and an electric thermostat switch to have the fans kick in at certain temp.

[dsastr_clan]

Update!

Hello to all, I installed the Altima fans, I had a little trimming to do and wired them up to low setting first to test the car our. I drove the car for like 2 hrs in the middle of the day high 90F.

I'm very surprised with the outcome, the fans are keeping the car super cool. I hooked them up to a relay system and electric thermostat.

https://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll12/dsastr_clan/67078171_505449926878697_6701516838649462784_n.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/dsastr_clan/media/67078171_505449926878697_6701516838649462784_n.jpg .html)

[Kingtal0n]

Thats really cold. Do you have an oil temp gauge? Maybe let it warm to 180's ranges at least

[dsastr_clan]

Thats really cold. Do you have an oil temp gauge? Maybe let it warm to 180's ranges at least

no oil temp, I can regulate the fans so they kick in when it gets a bit hotter and stay witin certain range. But yeah the fans worked, maybe I should just wire one instead of both of them.

[Kingtal0n]

It depends where the probe is. Water going in isn't as important as water going out. I would want to see it coming out around 185-190*F or even 200*F on the highway, most of the time in 90* ambient until oil reaches 210*F~ then let coolant come out of the engine a bit cooler 171-184*F when the engine is making more power.

Notice the temp we desire is reverse to the situation. In high output and high oil temp conditions we prefer lower coolant temps for intake air temp (safety/density). But in low output (cruise/idle) and low oil temps we prefer higher coolant temps for warming up and efficiency/economy.
It's all about warming and thinning out the oil so the engine can perform without excess wear and then not trying to carry away heat the engine needs to conserve fuel or improve fuel behavior when it needs that heat (consider arctic situation with alcohol fuel). The parts inside an engine are 'sized' around being fully warmed up (215~*F engine oil ranges) whether economically or performance oriented, although performance tends to leave 'extra room' (larger gaps or clearance) for excess warming (high temp high output)

[dsastr_clan]

It depends where the probe is. Water going in isn't as important as water going out. I would want to see it coming out around 185-190*F or even 200*F on the highway, most of the time in 90* ambient until oil reaches 210*F~ then let coolant come out of the engine a bit cooler 171-184*F when the engine is making more power.

Notice the temp we desire is reverse to the situation. In high output and high oil temp conditions we prefer lower coolant temps for intake air temp (safety/density). But in low output (cruise/idle) and low oil temps we prefer higher coolant temps for warming up and efficiency/economy.
It's all about warming and thinning out the oil so the engine can perform without excess wear and then not trying to carry away heat the engine needs to conserve fuel or improve fuel behavior when it needs that heat (consider arctic situation with alcohol fuel). The parts inside an engine are 'sized' around being fully warmed up (215~*F engine oil ranges) whether economically or performance oriented, although performance tends to leave 'extra room' (larger gaps or clearance) for excess warming (high temp high output)



thank you! I'm letting the engine stay within 182 to 187F now. The coolant probe for the gauge is located on the upper rad hose, so it should be giving some good temps.

I'm also using hood spacers and a rad support air duct. I will try to get an oil temp gauge too.

Thank you for your help.

[jedi03]

best bang for the buck right there! that's why i did them too instead of FAL, i like the FAL a lot, but the cost difference was rough and the Altima fans work so well lol!

[dsastr_clan]

best bang for the buck right there! that's why i did them too instead of FAL, i like the FAL a lot, but the cost difference was rough and the Altima fans work so well lol!

They do! I'm considering just using one of the fans instead of the two