What should I do with my 16k mile S14? [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

dmitrysgarage

07-30-2018, 07:14 PM

Could you just sell it and do all of that stuff to a 240 that's already beat down. Please.
This^

The car is more unique now than it will be if you mod it

Haha, yea I don't like working on beaters anymore. It's no fun when half the work is fixing some other guy's botched bs. It's so much more fun to work on a new or low miles bone stock car.

I get the car is unique and I agree my version wouldn't be as special. Right now it really is a 90's time machine. That 90s car smell and leather, it's intoxicating. Keeping it bone stock is an option I'm considering, just don't know how much I'll enjoy that long term. Ultimately I bought it to enjoy I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to mod a nearly new 240 ever again. Think of it like re-living a time when I couldn't afford a new 240 to mod and I was modding beaters. Feel the same way about the S2K too. I know that may upset some people, but I also doubt this thing is ever winning a vintage concourse. I love the 240, but it's more famous for mods than not.

^^^ Drive this thing and take lots of photos of it while it looks so nice. Such a nice find man, congrats.

Thanks man, was super excited to find it. So far that's what I'm doing with it. Haven't changed anything, just going through all the maintenance items and making sure everything is fresh.

Jesus fuck I hope this is a troll. I get that these cars are unimpressive in stock form, but the 'full-blown track car' plans for a car like this are crazy.

I guess I wasn't clear. The track plans were something I always thought I'd do with a 240, like in the past. I have another unrelated track build now. Since I found such a clean car I'm mostly deciding somewhere between a clean street build, sleeper that looks almost stock (maybe just light wheels), or completely cleaning up the stock setup. Converting to tubular components and modernizing suspension/brakes doesn't necessarily make it a track build. It's never going to be a daily, so making it look stock while it rips like a go kart would be pretty fun.

wheels, adjustable control arms, new bushings all around, NICE set of coilovers, an exhaust and thats it! just get rid of the god awful truck ride height and drive it around... keep it nice, clean and simple! dont touch the motor! leave it 100% smoggable ;)

MAYBE a set of Navan skirts and valances PROPERLY painted! and thats just to help get the body to match the front lip.

Pretty much what I was thinking, definitely would use all nice parts, I'm not throwing $500 ebay coils on anything :-). Exhaust wise I'd probably keep it pretty quiet. Would likely keep stock exhaust if not adding more power. I'm still researching wheels, I want something fairly elegant and tame if I do mod the car. Like you'd believe me if I tried to convince you they were OEM if you didn't know anything about 240s. So no fake bead locks, chrome. Thinking 17s or 18s max. Any thoughts on throwing a turbo on the KA? I'd be more than happy with 250whp+ for a car like this. Been reading about ISIS and Tomei manifolds for the KA.

Will also read up on those Navan skirts. Any paint I'd do would be at a high end shop I use here in Houston and I'd probably consider re-spraying the entire car if I was going to do any aero. The paint isn't clean enough for me to live with, if I'm going to mod it I may as well make it super clean.

Wheels and coilovers, maybe some legit skirts and lip, take lots of pictures for instagram?

Yep been doing that :), fun to post the 240. Someone actually got a photo of me driving it with one of my business partners to our office the other day. We live in the same neighborhood and thought it would be fun to give it a good shake down on the way to work.

https://i.imgur.com/VdIoqlul.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/VdIoqlu.jpg)

Store it for a few years and buy something else you can afford to write off.

Pretty sure I'd get bored of seeing it and taking it out just to maintain it.

put it in a temperature controlled garage and let it chill for like 15-20 years then cash out for nice profit.

My garage is actually temperature controlled so that's kind of the current situation. My question is; Do you really think it will be worth significantly more in 15-20 years? It's not the most famous of Nissans. Don't get me wrong I love it and all, just I'm trying to be realistic. Would suck to hold it for 15-20 years and have it gain a whopping $5-10K in value when I could have had fun with it. It'd be like not fucking your girlfriend to keep her fresh for the next guy.

There would have to be some significant upside. I suppose if Nissan wanted to bring the 240 model back, but even then that's no guarantee it will cause a huge premium for the old model.

Wouldn’t be super opposed to the wheels and suspension thing if you keep the stock stuff of course, but personally I’d feel bad/awkward putting miles on this

Would definitely keep the stock stuff and wouldn't feel right about doing any permanent modifications (i.e. cutting/welding anything up). I don't have enough time to put a lot of miles on this car anyway, but I definitely plan to drive it a little. Probably somewhere under 1,000 miles a year.

Kingtal0n

07-30-2018, 07:45 PM

Could you just sell it and do all of that stuff to a 240 that's already beat down. Please.

exactly what I did. I had a nice 40k mile 97 virgin and realized it was worth more untouched. Anything you change will only reduce the value. And driving it was stupid because the economy was the same as if it has 700 horsepower.

I sold that car and put the money into a real project that was already in need of saving. Something that couldn't get worse.

feito

07-30-2018, 07:52 PM

rocket bunny it and throw an Ls in it.

Jo_Galezo

07-30-2018, 08:21 PM

rocket bunny it and throw an Ls in it.

Full navan kit, leave engine untouched

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

feito

07-30-2018, 08:40 PM

cut the frame rails and drop it so low that you scratch the pavement with your floor panels. In-cabin exhaust system with a side exit

oLemurs

07-30-2018, 08:57 PM

sell it to a museum and buy someone else's s14 that is stock but has alot of miles

Hoffman5982

07-30-2018, 11:25 PM

Well, rip to this car. Kid doesn't even know what he has and has to ask what he should do when modifying a car? No way it will turn out well

xschylerx

07-31-2018, 12:59 AM

Well, rip to this car. Kid doesn't even know what he has and has to ask what he should do when modifying a car? No way it will turn out well

i like to think positive and that he'll do the right thing (DONT FUCKING TOUCH IT) but sadly, you're probably right.

rawgarage

07-31-2018, 01:44 AM

sell it to me for an obscene amount... Text me 9792366891

CamryOnBronze

07-31-2018, 07:29 AM

Well, rip to this car. Kid doesn't even know what he has and has to ask what he should do when modifying a car? No way it will turn out well

It appears the kid is six years older than you, lol.

While I can see how his post could be interpreted as being written by a sixteen year old that just got his first car and isn't sure what to do with it, I think it's more someone that's fairly new to the S chassis community. Someone that was alive at a time when you used to be able to post an honest discussion like this on a forum and be able to hold a civilized and mature conversation. I am not sure Zilvia was ever this place, but most other forums were, haha.

That car looks like an incredible place to start from. I've always wanted to start a build from a clean slate like that. If the paint is as clean as it appears to be, I would probably consider looking into replacing all of the moldings and weather stripping if they need it. Replace all of the suspension bushings with NISMO components, possibly upgrade the brakes, add some Navan aero, etc

I think my goal would be to preserve as much of the car as possible and try to stick to things that can be easily reversed. An SR swap would be super tempting to me, but mostly because I have never had much interest in the KA. However, in this car I might be tempted to leave it alone engine wise for a long time.

Locking the car in a barn for 20 years would likely result in a profit as most people have stated, but where's the fun in that? There are much better ways to invest money that will offer a better return after 20 years than this car ever will. I've never understood the point in owning a car you never drive or enjoy, but I know everyone is different.

Best of luck with the car! I'm pretty jealous, haha.

tuzzio

07-31-2018, 08:03 AM

Keep the car OEM plus and drive it forever. You can still have tasteful mods and the car be awesome.

Malik

07-31-2018, 12:29 PM

Focus on wheels and coilovers

Hoffman5982

07-31-2018, 12:49 PM

It appears the kid is six years older than you, lol.

That's assuming everyone is honest about their age. In my experience on this forum over the years, that is not the case.

OBEEWON

07-31-2018, 12:51 PM

Kingtal0n

07-31-2018, 01:43 PM

Start an overly ambitious build/ Build Thread.
Take lots of high resolution photos.
Wait till everyone is on your tip.
Then tell them you just got married, had a baby, or decided to go in a different direction and never log in again.

I love this. brb doing this

srs though, to avoid having this happen, speed is of the essence. If I had a full fab shop with tig/lifts I would take everything out of the car in a single day, scale balance and laser level a proper powerplant in there this week, by next weeks be getting back misc driveshaft/fabricated elements that have been painted/anodized/power coated/polished (allow 1-2 week delay for coatings such as paint) and have it driving in a few weeks. You can worry about coils and wheels for the next couple years while you drive the thing with 800 horsepower and 25mpg. Instead of 12 horsepower and 25mpg.

That way there is no chance to lose interest.

Malik

07-31-2018, 02:02 PM

^ thats the right move... but that takes a skill level he doesnt have yet.

OP avoid all the ricer mods and keep it as stock as possible once you know what your doing and you figure out how to get a navan bumper then you'll be a in a better place.

CamryOnBronze

07-31-2018, 02:35 PM

That's assuming everyone is honest about their age. In my experience on this forum over the years, that is not the case.

Man, if I were 16 I wouldn't choose to be 32. 24 sounds way better. That's just coming from a 32 year old though. :deke:

but that takes a skill level he doesnt have yet.

He did say he has a supercharged Mustang project, so he likely has a little experience to some extent. All just me speculating like everyone else on all of this though, haha.

FaLKoN240

07-31-2018, 02:40 PM

>Almost didn't approve this thread.

>>Was also confused about his initial first post until I reread it.

>>>Amused to see I wasn't the only one.

lunchmeat

07-31-2018, 02:58 PM

Do mods that will allow you to return it to stock down the road if/when you decide to sell it.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Kingtal0n

07-31-2018, 03:34 PM

Do mods that will allow you to return it to stock down the road if/when you decide to sell it.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

technically, and SR swap is one of those mods.

It doesn't alter the chassis itself or wiring in any way. It can be undone in a day.

How many 240's I sold with the original engine the next day, that had an SR20 at the time of sale the day before.

#srswapisOEM

ZX88

07-31-2018, 05:14 PM

Well, rip to this car. Kid doesn't even know what he has and has to ask what he should do when modifying a car? No way it will turn out well

a 32 year old child..:confused:

keep it stock, save up 3 grand and get another zenki to build.

ixfxi

07-31-2018, 05:15 PM

you should drive your car

its what most normal humans do with their cars, as opposed to sitting there jacking off over a low number

ive said it time again, theres nothing special about a stock 240sx.

crash n' burn

07-31-2018, 05:32 PM

I say you should just ruin the fuck out of it; no one cares about a zenki anyways.

I'm talking shit, hot-boi spec metallic spray paint, weak ass wheels, the full ISR catalog of parts, then jump a few railroad tracks to help gain some ground clearance and bash in one of your corner panels so you can sheet metal screw some jp fiberglas overs on it. Fucking MINT.

Orrrr just do what you want to it because it's your car. This isn't FB or IG, you dont need to gain our acceptance here. Do your thing bro; keep it classy though.

dmitrysgarage

07-31-2018, 05:38 PM

I made a reply last night, but it's being held for moderation. I'm can't 100% remember exactly who I replied to, but hopefully it shows up once one of the mods can approve it. Haven't been ignoring you guys. I think it's because I linked an image. I've been able to make other replies in other threads without images, so hopefully this reply works.

I think it's more someone that's fairly new to the S chassis community. Someone that was alive at a time when you used to be able to post an honest discussion like this on a forum and be able to hold a civilized and mature conversation. I am not sure Zilvia was ever this place, but most other forums were, haha.

That car looks like an incredible place to start from. I've always wanted to start a build from a clean slate like that. If the paint is as clean as it appears to be, I would probably consider looking into replacing all of the moldings and weather stripping if they need it. Replace all of the suspension bushings with NISMO components, possibly upgrade the brakes, add some Navan aero, etc

I think my goal would be to preserve as much of the car as possible and try to stick to things that can be easily reversed. An SR swap would be super tempting to me, but mostly because I have never had much interest in the KA. However, in this car I might be tempted to leave it alone engine wise for a long time.

Locking the car in a barn for 20 years would likely result in a profit as most people have stated, but where's the fun in that? There are much better ways to invest money that will offer a better return after 20 years than this car ever will. I've never understood the point in owning a car you never drive or enjoy, but I know everyone is different.

I've lurked on the zilvia forums before, but never registered until I got this car. I am definitely new to the S chassis community, always wanted one, never had one. Been modding cars since I was 18 and like you noted I'm 32 now. Well at least for a few more weeks ;-).

I really appreciate the kind words and I like the car a lot too. I've learned over the years that I enjoy greenfield projects where you get to start from a blank slate vs. a project someone else has already messed with. In my day job I wind up doing both, but I get paid to do that. Cars are my hobby, I'd rather do what I enjoy. I can be very OCD about certain things. I think that's a quality a lot of car guys share, but often don't agree on. I wish the paint was actually a bit nicer, I did do a light correction and that helped a lot. If I were to do some kind of aero kit I would probably have the whole thing resprayed the same factory color.

Also agree with you on the profit side. How much profit realistically? This isn't likely to become a Ford GT situation. Even if the 240 doubles in value that's not worth watching it sit in a corner of my garage for a decade or two.

Keep the car OEM plus and drive it forever. You can still have tasteful mods and the car be awesome.

Focus on wheels and coilovers

Yea that's definitely a thought I've had as well. Keeping it really simple. Seems like that's what everyone is suggesting.

Start an overly ambitious build/ Build Thread.
Take lots of high resolution photos.
Wait till everyone is on your tip.
Then tell them you just got married, had a baby, or decided to go in a different direction and never log in again.

I see this guy internets.

I love this. brb doing this

srs though, to avoid having this happen, speed is of the essence. If I had a full fab shop with tig/lifts I would take everything out of the car in a single day, scale balance and laser level a proper powerplant in there this week, by next weeks be getting back misc driveshaft/fabricated elements that have been painted/anodized/power coated/polished (allow 1-2 week delay for coatings such as paint) and have it driving in a few weeks. You can worry about coils and wheels for the next couple years while you drive the thing with 800 horsepower and 25mpg. Instead of 12 horsepower and 25mpg.

Lucky for me I do have a tig welder and a lift :-D. I'm still trying to get good at tig. I wouldn't trust myself on anything significant. I really want to start making manifolds one day. I've been looking at header modeling kits, pretty cool, snaps together like legos to help desgin the cuts. Definitely not doing a super ambitious build for this car though ;).

>Almost didn't approve this thread.

>>Was also confused about his initial first post until I reread it.

>>>Amused to see I wasn't the only one.

Thanks for approving it, guess I missed the mark on clarity.

technically, and SR swap is one of those mods. It doesn't alter the chassis itself or wiring in any way. It can be undone in a day.

I really do love the idea of an SR swap. It seems relatively straightforward and I have everything to do the work myself. However it feels weird to discard a perfectly good KA with such low miles. Plus my power goals feel pretty modest, seems like people have pushed 250-300whp from a KA. I can't imagine the car needing much more than that to be fun. I don't need another beast, it'd be more fun to have power you can completely use on some back roads.

I'm talking shit, hot-boi spec metallic spray paint, weak ass wheels, the full ISR catalog of parts

Done and done! lol

oLemurs

07-31-2018, 09:30 PM

actually i think you should 7.3 or 7.5 swap it s13 front end would be MINTY

Hoffman5982

07-31-2018, 10:35 PM

If you swap out a nearly new KA for an old, beat ass SR you truly are an idiot. Want more power? Put a t28 and get a proper tune. You will have as much/more power than an SR, more torque, and it will be more reliable because the motor has 16k miles on it.

PS: That's directed at anyone in general suggesting he put an SR in. Not just OP himself

pacotaco345

07-31-2018, 11:14 PM

I mean ultimately do whatever you want with it. I'm sure half the people on this forum want to see you sell the car and buy a project, and the other half would like to see it with navan aero/OEM+, but ultimately whether it be you or the 5th person to own it after you the car will be modified in some way shape or form.

If you have the time/resources/money to modify the car while keeping it as nice as it is now then by all means do whatever you want. Just don't make it worse and you'll be fine. Can't please everyone!

ixfxi

08-01-2018, 12:23 AM

OBEEWON

08-01-2018, 08:09 AM

Boost that KA if you like good power and tq for a short period of time.

Hoffman5982

08-01-2018, 09:37 AM

i'd quickly sell that engine for profit, and then do a proper build on an SR

because the KA is a heap of dog shit

Your face is a heap of dog shit

Hoffman5982

08-01-2018, 09:39 AM

Boost that KA if you like good power and tq for a short period of time.

Get an enthalpy mail order tune if you only want it short term. Get a real tune if you want it to last. With a t28 at 10-12psi it’ll never break and you’ll still make around 280-300whp

I’m fully ready to turn this into a ka vs sr thread boys.

oLemurs

08-01-2018, 09:56 AM

Get an enthalpy mail order tune if you only want it short term. Get a real tune if you want it to last. With a t28 at 10-12psi it’ll never break and you’ll still make around 280-300whp

I’m fully ready to turn this into a ka vs sr thread boys.

KA doesnt have rocker arms i think thats enough to get over the sr

FaLKoN240

08-01-2018, 09:57 AM

Have/had the most reliable car on my drift team. 3 years and my KA-T going strong :)

snafupossum

08-01-2018, 01:16 PM

What happened to op? He posted then crawled back into the whole he found that car in.

RalliartRsX

08-01-2018, 02:00 PM

What happened to op? He posted then crawled back into the whole he found that car in.

HOLE, not WHOLE :D

Agamemnon

08-01-2018, 02:07 PM

After the responses he got I wouldn't have come back either.

ixfxi

08-01-2018, 04:51 PM

Your face is a heap of dog shit

maybe you're right, but i am smart enough to know that the SR is a superior engine to the KA. anyone who's worked on both can easily tell the difference in quality between the two motors.

the amount of time and money needed to boost the KA makes it regrettable, especially when in the end-result is a boosted truck engine.

not saying its the worst engine out there, but its surely not one of the best. poor layout, rough idle, weak internals. yeah, boost it if you want to shorten the lifespan significantly

Hoffman5982

08-01-2018, 06:10 PM

maybe you're right, but i am smart enough to know that the SR is a superior engine to the KA. anyone who's worked on both can easily tell the difference in quality between the two motors.

the amount of time and money needed to boost the KA makes it regrettable, especially when in the end-result is a boosted truck engine.

not saying its the worst engine out there, but its surely not one of the best. poor layout, rough idle, weak internals. yeah, boost it if you want to shorten the lifespan significantly

Meh, I've owned both, rebuilt both, and tracked both. KA was easier to deal with imo, and the better bottom end power is much more desirable than a higher rev limit(300 whole rpm) for me. My car sat on limiter for 4 years and never gave me an issue. It really doesn't take much to boost the KA, it's much less work than swapping an SR in and will yield a much better power band. If you do it properly it will be just as reliable as an SR. The only thing "truck motor" means is torquey. I don't see how that can be considered a bad thing. Even still, there are distinct differences between the hardbody KA's and s-chassis KA's. Lastly, all of my KA's have had a smooth idle, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Kingtal0n

08-01-2018, 07:59 PM

At this point I'd consider a KA 240sx an exotic engine swap.

Theres a good chance that more than 60% of 240sx no longer have the KA24.

So, yeah good luck getting that exotic shit to work.

wolfpack

08-01-2018, 08:01 PM

Hoffman didn't you blow up your KA right after you boosted it?

Hoffman5982

08-01-2018, 08:16 PM

Hoffman didn't you blow up your KA right after you boosted it?

:keke: Maybeeeeeeeee

But real talk it blew up because my shitty Taurus fan kept melting relays and caused overheating. Drove an event with a blown head gasket. Any motor is going to go ape shit once it hits 380F ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dizzariot

08-01-2018, 09:05 PM

Premium account, fancy avatar, and the "what should I do" thread makes me think this is going to somehow end badly for all of us regardless of how you feel about what the path ahead should be.

landins13

08-02-2018, 08:51 AM

Please keep it stock or do very minor mods like wheels and suspension. If you want to buid a full blown track car just buy one that has already been ruined. With everything you were talking about in the the OP you really would be better off buying someone elses project since you will be re-doing everything anyway.

RalliartRsX

08-02-2018, 08:54 AM

...........well this thread escalated to poo slinging and inflated opinions rather quickly hahahahah!

tuzzio

08-02-2018, 10:07 AM

do something like this. you know, be unique.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2vjefrn.jpg

Malik

08-02-2018, 10:31 AM

So the verdict is ka turbo wheels and coils

Sailor

08-02-2018, 10:34 AM

...........well this thread escalated to poo slinging and inflated opinions rather quickly hahahahah!

^ Though there are some valid point hiding in the slung poo, I agree

Hoffman5982

08-02-2018, 12:00 PM

Sell me that steering wheel when you put a Grip Royal in.

Malik

08-02-2018, 12:32 PM

I barely read anymore...

Kviper52

08-02-2018, 12:45 PM

100% slam it on emusas with xxrs and duraflex kit with spray paint matte grey and strip the interior but add a super cool nrg wheel. oh! and then sell it for pennies on the dollar please and thanks.

jumpman2334

08-02-2018, 01:23 PM

i cant believe no one has mentioned this yet, but you should learn to park before you start modding your car.

Sailor

08-02-2018, 01:43 PM

i cant believe no one has mentioned this yet, but you should learn to park before you start modding your car.

Haha, this is why I love this forum

OutlawLui

08-02-2018, 04:16 PM

Wheels and coilovers (but keep the original parts stored)

and only drive it on the weekends

dmitrysgarage

08-02-2018, 09:22 PM

Thanks for approving my earlier replies FaLKoN240, appreciate the help!

All you guys worried that I'm a 16 year old who's going to poorly modify the car can relax. I have a nice shop and am pretty experienced in this sort of thing.

https://i.imgur.com/Qw7Y5Djl.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/Qw7Y5Dj.jpg)

If you swap out a nearly new KA for an old, beat ass SR you truly are an idiot. Want more power? Put a t28 and get a proper tune. You will have as much/more power than an SR, more torque, and it will be more reliable because the motor has 16k miles on it.

Yea that's why I was saying I was iffy on the SR idea, seems like a waste of a good new engine. Plus my power goals aren't too crazy based on what I'm reading.

If you have the time/resources/money to modify the car while keeping it as nice as it is now then by all means do whatever you want. Just don't make it worse and you'll be fine. Can't please everyone!

Not trying to please everyone, because fuck that it's my car. Wanted to find a group to bounce ideas off and hear what everyone thought. Got some nice PMs and some good replies here. I also figured it'd be an interesting car to share with the people here. Whatever I do will be well executed, even if it's not someone's thing.

Get an enthalpy mail order tune if you only want it short term. Get a real tune if you want it to last. With a t28 at 10-12psi it’ll never break and you’ll still make around 280-300whp

I generally get custom dyno tunes. I'd optimally find someone I trust locally to do the actual tune. Keep in mind I'm really just getting into the Japanese import scene so I don't know anyone. Part of the reason I joined the site, I figured there's lots of Houston guys here. May consider tuning it myself after some research. Figure out if it's cost effective and time effective, I'm sure there is a ton of good information out there.

Right now I have no idea what software/hardware/stand alone systems are good choices for these cars. I'm also out of practice. I haven't tuned a car since my G8. I used HP Tuners back then. I started working on new cars after. It wasn't practical for me to try to figure out how to do it with little to no public info.

Think that 280-300whp would be reliable on 93 pump gas, with a nice front mount? Keep in mind I'm in the Houston heat. I'd rather not run meth or e85. I'd be more than happy with even 250whp from this little car. I'm sure there are weight savings to be had while looking stock and not making any permanent changes. Feels like my goal is going to wind up being fun to drive, non-permanent and reliable. Something that doesn't require constant maintenance.

oLemurs: KA doesnt have rocker arms i think thats enough to get over the sr
FaLKoN240: Have/had the most reliable car on my drift team. 3 years and my KA-T going strong :)
ixfxi: not saying its the worst engine out there, but its surely not one of the best. poor layout, rough idle, weak internals. yeah, boost it if you want to shorten the lifespan significantly
Hoffman5982: I've owned both, rebuilt both, and tracked both. KA was easier to deal with imo, and the better bottom end power is much more desirable than a higher rev limit(300 whole rpm) for me.
Kingtal0n: At this point I'd consider a KA 240sx an exotic engine swap.
wolfpack: Hoffman didn't you blow up your KA right after you boosted it?

Dang what did I start. Sounds to me like both are viable choices. I'm kinda leaing towards keeping the KA since it's so fresh. I'm not going to try to squeeze every drop out of it. If the KA pops I can either rebuild or consider a swap, for now these engines are still very affordable.

So the verdict is ka turbo wheels and coils

Starting to feel that way.

i cant believe no one has mentioned this yet, but you should learn to park before you start modding your car.

Pretty sure I can park however I want, in this case with the sun behind me, in what is obviously an empty and private lot. You seem pretty upset about it though, doing ok man? Need a hug?

afishysilvia

08-02-2018, 09:28 PM

^^^ Quoter Extraordinaire, well executed :rimshot:

spooled240

08-02-2018, 10:11 PM

Yea that's why I was saying I was iffy on the SR idea, seems like a waste of a good new engine. Plus my power goals aren't too crazy based on what I'm reading.

Think that 280-300whp would be reliable on 93 pump gas, with a nice front mount? Keep in mind I'm in the Houston heat. I'd rather not run meth or e85. I'd be more than happy with even 250whp from this little car. I'm sure there are weight savings to be had while looking stock and not making any permanent changes. Feels like my goal is going to wind up being fun to drive, non-permanent and reliable. Something that doesn't require constant maintenance.

Dang what did I start. Sounds to me like both are viable choices. I'm kinda leaing towards keeping the KA since it's so fresh. I'm not going to try to squeeze every drop out of it. If the KA pops I can either rebuild or consider a swap, for now these engines are still very affordable.

Turbo the KA! I think it would be awesome if you kept the engine looking stock and used as much bolt-on parts from Nissan as possible:
-Tomei cast manifold
-s15 gt28
-Tomei elbow and downpipe to stock exhaust
-stock s14 sr20det airbox, intake, hotpipe
-stock sr20det coldpipe on SR20 fan shroud
-740cc nismo injectors, z32 mafs(will bolt on to stock airbox with redrill) and a enthalpy or JWT flash
-s15 SMIC (a Greddy FMIC would be nice, but you would have to move the battery, remove the fogs, cut a hole, etc.)

dmitrysgarage

08-02-2018, 10:22 PM

Turbo the KA! I think it would be awesome if you kept the engine looking stock and used as much bolt-on parts from Nissan as possible:
-Tomei cast manifold
-s15 gt28
-Tomei elbow and downpipe to stock exhaust
-stock s14 sr20det airbox, intake, hotpipe
-stock sr20det coldpipe on SR20 fan shroud
-s15 SMIC
-740cc nismo injectors, z32 mafs(will bolt on to stock airbox with redrill) and a enthalpy or JWT flash

Thanks for putting this together, really appreciate it!

If I go this route I think going very OEM looking is definitely the goal. I've been researching the Tomei manifold, I've heard good things about the brand. Any reason they cast these? I haven't used a cast aftermarket manifold in a long time. It would look more OEM for sure, although coating stainless can have that look too if it's not made from a million cuts.

The S15 SMIC won't be too small to deal with the Houston heat at 10psi+?

On the fuel side, will the 740cc injectors on stock pump work for my power goals? No aftermarket FPR or BAP needed right? I generally am not a fan of BAPs, would rather go bigger on the pump.

Overall this sounds like a pretty clean setup.

dizzariot

08-02-2018, 10:50 PM

...well I'm pleasantly supirsed. Want to trade for an OEM grey hatch?

cbeuglas

08-02-2018, 10:57 PM

You will have to have at least a new fuel pump 255 or higher. Also you will have to have a 300zx fuel filter. There are a ton of good write-ups on doing a KA-T setup. It will just take a little serching. Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Kingtal0n

08-02-2018, 11:32 PM

The way to do a turbo KA in 2018

is with an rear mounted oil-less cartridge.

It means you leave everything alone in the engine bay. The stock manifold can stay on the engine. And no need to remove the pan to drill a oil return. Those two things will prevent hassles returning the car to stock should the need arise.

Methanol progressive injection is a must. You use a SAFC with ~440cc injectors and stock computer to make up for the cost of the system. Avoid rom tunes and stand-alones at all costs. There is no reliable tuning scheme for the KA engine unless you do it yourself, and all the hardware becomes instant-junk the minute you decide to sell it, so I am sharing the real secret to making it work. The stock computer is absolutely perfect except you need more fuel and more octane. methanol injection runs the octane up around 116 with 50/50 mix, and the SAFC merges increased fueling with larger injectors seamlessly. Closed loop still works so it doesn't get bad fuel economy or foul plugs. The bypass requires recirculated so its silent and never washes the cylinder walls down with fuel. Everything is set up to around 10psi of boost. The motor needs 254-260* duration cams, springs, and shouldn't be spun much over 6k if at all ever because that is the big internal, unconquerable weakness of the KA engine. Which is why it doesn't make sense to use.

maths at 10psi of boost
146cid*6000/3456 = 253cfm * .069 = 17.48lb/min, 10/14.5psi = .6896 pressure ratio, 17.48 * 1.6896 = 295.5 brake horsepower * .88 (12% drivetrain loss) = 260rwhp

dmitrysgarage

08-03-2018, 01:05 AM

...well I'm pleasantly supirsed. Want to trade for an OEM grey hatch?

:-), I'll have to pass for the moment but thanks!

You will have to have at least a new fuel pump 255 or higher. Also you will have to have a 300zx fuel filter. There are a ton of good write-ups on doing a KA-T setup. It will just take a little serching. Good luck!

Thanks for the info! Wasn't sure on the stock size. If my math is right a 255 should hold 375hp crank on a turbo setup.

Assuming:

- 0.34kg per hour of fuel for each horsepower, very conservative.
- 0.755kg/l average density of E10 pump gasoline.

(375 bhp * 0.34 kg) / 0.755 kg/l = 169 lph

Based on the data sheet the walbro 255 makes 50gph at 60psi, that's 189lph. So that fits within the conservative 169lph estimate.

Injector duty seems like it might be tight based on spooled240's suggestion of 740cc.

169 lph / 60 min * 1000 = 2817 cc
2817 cc / 4 injectors = 704cc

That's 95% duty at 740cc injectors. But my 0.34kg is probably too conservative. In reality the car probably wont ever make 375bhp either.

I wouldn't install too much pump personally. You start to over heat the fuel in a return system. For example I converted my Mustang to a return with an aftermarket fuel rail and post-rail FPR. I'm running dual 450s and the heat this adds to the circulating fuel is huge, around 456W at 60psi. Even a single 450 is 228W, that's like almost 4x light bulbs in your tank. That's a bad time for a street car. Riding around on long rides will get that fuel cooking especially as it gets low. I mitigate mine largely by avoding going under half a tank if I'm testing on the street. That really limits my range unless I switch to the pump gas tune. Sending vacuum to my FPR to reduce pressure at idle helps reduce heat a little bit too.

This looks like a good kit from Walbro: http://walbrofuelpumps.com/1995-1999-nissan-240sx-high-pressure-255lph-fuel-pump-4-cyl-2-4l.html

I'm reading going to read through some of those KA-T threads in the AM.

Methanol progressive injection is a must. You use a SAFC with ~440cc injectors and stock computer to make up for the cost of the system. Avoid rom tunes and stand-alones at all costs. There is no reliable tuning scheme for the KA engine unless you do it yourself, and all the hardware becomes instant-junk the minute you decide to sell it, so I am sharing the real secret to making it work. The stock computer is absolutely perfect except you need more fuel and more octane. methanol injection runs the octane up around 116 with 50/50 mix, and the SAFC merges increased fueling with larger injectors seamlessly. Closed loop still works so it doesn't get bad fuel economy or foul plugs. The bypass requires recirculated so its silent and never washes the cylinder walls down with fuel. Everything is set up to around 10psi of boost. The motor needs 254-260* duration cams, springs, and shouldn't be spun much over 6k if at all ever because that is the big internal, unconquerable weakness of the KA engine. Which is why it doesn't make sense to use.

maths at 10psi of boost
146cid*6000/3456 = 253cfm * .069 = 17.48lb/min, 10/14.5psi = .6896 pressure ratio, 17.48 * 1.6896 = 295.5 brake horsepower * .88 (12% drivetrain loss) = 260rwhp

Interesting, thanks for the write up! How's the lag on a rear mount? I know these are popular on a lot of new cars too. I have used methanol/water in the past before and it's a great way to add cooling/fuel/octane. I was just hoping to avoid it on something like this build. I suppose a boost controller w/ wideband can provide safety if I run dry or even take a signal from the meth system if possible.

Definitely don't want to lose closed loop for a street build like this. What's causing closed loop issues on other builds? I don't mind the idea of using the stock computer, most my projects have been stock computers including the Mustang. If I'm understanding the scenario correctly, am I basically doing the fuel tuning with the Super AFC system as a piggy back controller and compensating for the meth fueling being injected in lieu of tuning the factory computer itself. I'm thumbing through the manual (will read in AM) but it looks like it piggy backs into all the usual stuff. This is definitely an interesting option, hell the controller on it's own even with a more traditional setup seems like a great option to let me tune it myself.

TheRealSy90

08-03-2018, 08:14 AM

SAFCs belong in the garbage.

OBEEWON

08-03-2018, 09:39 AM

That garage is so good. More pictures of the rest of your cars.

Hoffman didn't you blow up your KA right after you boosted it?

^^was about to say this.

KA boom guess who stepped in the room.

dmitrysgarage

08-03-2018, 12:48 PM

SAFCs belong in the garbage.

What's the disadvantage of piggy backs like this SAFC? I've never used one. I've only used stock ecus that I've tuned or had other people tune and stand alones like haltech.

jumpman2334

08-03-2018, 02:19 PM

Pretty sure I can park however I want, in this case with the sun behind me, in what is obviously an empty and private lot. You seem pretty upset about it though, doing ok man? Need a hug?
you are the one that seems pretty upset/defensive over a harmless joke..?

piggybacks are seriously watered down standalones; its just better in the long run for you to spend the cash and get a standalone. ive seen countless threads where people cannot get a piggyback to work as they can be finicky as it has to work in conjunction with your stock computer, standalones replace the stock ecu and 'stand alone'. standalones allow you to tune/modify and monitor just about every engine related electrical component.

Kingtal0n

08-03-2018, 02:55 PM

Interesting, thanks for the write up! How's the lag on a rear mount? I know these are popular on a lot of new cars too. I have used methanol/water in the past before and it's a great way to add cooling/fuel/octane. I was just hoping to avoid it on something like this build. I suppose a boost controller w/ wideband can provide safety if I run dry or even take a signal from the meth system if possible.

Definitely don't want to lose closed loop for a street build like this. What's causing closed loop issues on other builds? I don't mind the idea of using the stock computer, most my projects have been stock computers including the Mustang. If I'm understanding the scenario correctly, am I basically doing the fuel tuning with the Super AFC system as a piggy back controller and compensating for the meth fueling being injected in lieu of tuning the factory computer itself. I'm thumbing through the manual (will read in AM) but it looks like it piggy backs into all the usual stuff. This is definitely an interesting option, hell the controller on it's own even with a more traditional setup seems like a great option to let me tune it myself.

The technology behind oil-less cartridges is vastly different from what we are used to. They spool incredibly fast even in the rear. They also flow more than you will ever need. There is a twin-rear mounted vette packing 2000 horsepower around here somewhere that torque comes on like a blower. I think the smallest oil-less turbo is worth around 500bhp or something crazy.

SAFC is 'garbage' 99% of the time. the only time you want one is when you turbo a KA or you have an atmospheric bypass or non-recirculation setup on a stock computer. I'll go through the pros and cons now after some explanations.

SAFC alows you to dial in fuel perfectly. You can get any A/F you want, just like a stand-alone. Because KA/SR use a MAF sensor, the voltage curve is parabolic so at low flow rates there is a LOT of resolution where it is needed.

The down side is that it does NOT control timing. It means you will have more timing than you want. Luckily, there are ways to deal with this. #1 it has a distributor, so you can easily pull a couple degrees global timing right off the bat to help. #2 is don't run more than 10psi of boost, which mitigates the need for seriously retarded timing. #3 is the methanol injection, which raises octane and prevents the advanced timing from destroying the engine. It will actually make the most/more power like this (as opposed to have a 100% pump gas tune). Plus the addition of methanol means a richer a/f so you can push the limits of the injectors if necessary.

As for closed loop. The reason you lose closed loop on some setups that use OEM computers is because of the step size in ms of fuel control. Lets say you are at idle, 14.8:1, and closed loop decides to add some fuel. Well the factory injectors are like 270cc (something tiny like that) so the computer adds like a half a millisecond or more of fuel. the step size is around .5 of a ms (.0005 seconds of fuel). For a 270cc injector, this is nothing. But for a 440 or 600cc injector this can bring your 14.8 down to like 13's or even 12's and kill the motor due to the massive swing in fueling. The computer quickly loses track, all it see's is "rich now" and starts pulling fuel. Well guess what, it only made 1 step in the rich direction, but now its so rich that it can take several steps in the "lean direction" before" all the excess fuel washes out and the motor is too lean to stay running. The larger the injector, the worse the control.

So lets pro and con this bitch
SAFC setup pros:
SAFC is Cheap
SAFC is re-sellable
Methanol kit is re-sellable
more power on meth with stock timing and a little boost
meth adds more fuel to the table
water reduces EGT and makes it safer to run on pump fuel
tune it from the driver seat on the street

Cons:
Can't control timing
people will say its garbage all the time

now lets look at the rom tune pros and cons:
Rom tune pro:
Might plug in and go just fine

cons:
expensive and Not easy to re-sell a KA turbo rom tune (bye $500)
can't re-tune it easily (need to mail chips away)
Still needs a SAFC most of the time to bring fueling back in line (mail order tunes are not perfect, even if they are) unless you want to keep re-mailing chips which apparently is acceptable
Reduced power 'for safety' because low timing on pump gas with significant compression is the only way to keep it safe
Still a risk due to high temperature and no water to control EGT, given the engines history (not a turbo motor originally)

A stand-alone is essentially the same cons as a rom tune, becuase you still need reduced timing on pump fuels, except now you have a $1500 KA stand-alone you can't re-sell instead of a $500 rom tune. It won't need a SAFC though and you could tune it yourself are additional pros. And its not like you are going to run much more boost on a stock KA engine even with control over the timing,Because you are pushing the limits of pump fuel and high compression, with a fragile cast piston that won't take any abuse at all.

dmitrysgarage

08-03-2018, 03:08 PM

you are the one that seems pretty upset/defensive over a harmless joke..?

piggybacks are seriously watered down standalones; its just better in the long run for you to spend the cash and get a standalone. ive seen countless threads where people cannot get a piggyback to work as they can be finicky as it has to work in conjunction with your stock computer, standalones replace the stock ecu and 'stand alone'. standalones allow you to tune/modify and monitor just about every engine related electrical component.

You got me, I'm super upset bro ;-) /ragequit

Interesting, so the reason I never tried a piggyback was because I always tuned stock computers until I got into newer cars. Then piggy backs were usually much more basic options for people who were afraid of voiding warranties by tuning stock computers or putting in a standalone. However, this Apexi SAFC seems pretty advanced compared to what I've seen people using. Most the other (non-240) piggyback systems I saw were prefab canned tunes only, no customization, this seems actually tuneable. Hence why it seems interesting.

I am familiar with standalones, and really the cost isn't the biggest factor here. Overall I want to do this thing right.

The technology behind oil-less cartridges is vastly different from what we are used to. They spool incredibly fast even in the rear. They also flow more than you will ever need. There is a twin-rear mounted vette packing 2000 horsepower around here somewhere that torque comes on like a blower. I think the smallest oil-less turbo is worth around 500bhp or something crazy.

Yea since I made my post I was reading on comp turbos site and looking at the specs and pricing. Really cool and seams remote oriented, sounds like maybe reliability in a top mount isn't appropriate? I think they spool so fast because it's all ball bearing carts right?

SAFC alows you to dial in fuel perfectly. You can get any A/F you want, just like a stand-alone. Because KA/SR use a MAF sensor, the voltage curve is parabolic so at low flow rates there is a LOT of resolution where it is needed.

So does this use MAF + wideband to figure out the mass air input and the lambda of the output? That's what I'd expect to get a perfect setpoint for A/F.

The down side is that it does NOT control timing. It means you will have more timing than you want.

That does kinda suck, I really like being able to control timing directly especially if using a variety of fuel. Though I'd probably just tune this for 93.

As for closed loop. The reason you lose closed loop on some setups that use OEM computers is because of the step size in ms of fuel control. Lets say you are at idle, 14.8:1, and closed loop decides to add some fuel. Well the factory injectors are like 270cc (something tiny like that) so the computer adds like a half a millisecond or more of fuel. the step size is around .5 of a ms (.0005 seconds of fuel). For a 270cc injector, this is nothing. But for a 440 or 600cc injector this can bring your 14.8 down to like 13's or even 12's and kill the motor due to the massive swing in fueling. The computer quickly loses track, all it see's is "rich now" and starts pulling fuel. Well guess what, it only made 1 step in the rich direction, but now its so rich that it can take several steps in the "lean direction" before" all the excess fuel washes out and the motor is too lean to stay running. The larger the injector, the worse the control.

Gotcha. I see you're saying the standalone is the same downsides as the ROM, however why wouldn't I be able to control timing or keep timing higher with meth + standalone? If money wasn't the big concern, what would you do?

FaLKoN240

08-03-2018, 05:09 PM

I have a rom tune partnered with a SAFC...

Most of what he said is true. My set up didn't really start ripping until I leaned it out a bit.

Kingtal0n

08-04-2018, 07:50 AM

oh if money is no concern. Put a haltech on it if they make a PnP version and go E85 flex fuel.

The big issue here is, stock bottom end, cast piston, high compression. It means 93 will never really be good enough by itself. Because even if perfectly tuned on 93 one little hiccup will destroy the motor and you'll be left with no engine because it could be very difficult to find another nice condition KA. Haltech will support that engine much better than OEM ecu because you can also monitor and log all the critical details, such as fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, iat, etc.. and tune it to alert you immediately.

If on the other hand you could find a spare KA and have it sitting on the shelf. And don't mind swapping it in later at some point. Then sure why not try 93 and see what happens.

See what Im saying, better just to protect the engine you have. And 93 isn't going to protect shit. You need meth or E85 to ensure ensure the safety of that motor. Which severely opens the timing window and makes stock-ish timing safe at the power level the stock bottom end is comfortable at, making a stand-alone pseudo unnecessary.

sounds like maybe reliability in a top mount isn't appropriate

Top mount is as good as anything else if done right. It takes some finess and you will want a high quality manifold but ultimately it would be just as reliable as anything else and cheaper and less fab work than a rear mount.
I was just thinking you could leave the engine bay more stock if you had a rear mount. And convert the car back to stock easily if you wanted to. Its more reversible, and less KA specific so you aren't left with a bunch of expensive KA engine parts you can't sell or give away.

tuning it with a SAFC is just like tuning with anything else. You the driver drive the car and watch the wideband and adjust the dial on the SAFC until the numbers showing up match whatever you as the tuner think they should say. If you need help with that I can provide more details also.

why wouldn't I be able to control timing or keep timing higher with meth + standalone?
I'm not sure exactly what this is asking. But I can tell you this much: when it comes to forced induction on high compression engines with weak cast pistons, you don't want the timing to make the power. You let boost do the work and keep timing as far back as possible to prevent cylinder pressure from spiking up and ruining parts. You are better off with 1-2psi extra or some other power adder, and 2-3* less timing to make more power than the other way around. For example a guy with an N/A engine is sitting at 18* and wants to push 20* but the motor is pinging with 20* sometimes. The 2 extra degrees is making 8-12 ft*lbs more torque so the guy thinks its worth it? Hell no. Because he can pull timing back to 15* and run a 50 shot of nitrous, make 42 extra horsepower and far less risky than that 2 extra degrees of timing.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?72957-Tuning-for-avg-87-gas-on-an-2003-lq4-GMC-1500HD-Questions

The stand-alone isn't going to let you run more timing than the stock computer. It will allow you to run less. It means you could potentially push a bit more boost pressure than 10psi and have much less timing, and also control larger injectors safely. It would be safer this way. But there is no guarantee that the stock bottom end will live at that level, I've tuned hundreds of engines but only one turbo KA and it was a looooooong time ago so all bets are off as far as my experience with how much power they are comfortable at. The traditional line of thinking is that 7psi any engine can take that 40% increase in power np. But after that it can be sketchy. I think 50-65% increase is my max comfort level for a KA engine that I expected to last a long time. I think 80-100% increase is a bit much. I'm sure it would live for a while its just how long of a while.

TheRealSy90

08-04-2018, 08:19 AM

Kingtal0n

08-04-2018, 03:03 PM

Your car does not have a factory wideband o2 sensor. You're giving the capabilities of the factory engine management way too much credit, the stock ecu is not so "tunable" like other factory ecu's on other cars. You'd have to install a wideband and "tune" the SAFC while monitoring it, but the ecu or safc is never seeing that wideband o2 reading.

Also, you don't have to "mail away" a rom tuned ecu to get another tune. The tuner (RS Enthalpy for example) sends you a new pair of chips in the mail and you install the new chips all while still being able to drive the car.

I fixed my post. I hadn't realized about the chips. However, having to wait for chips is the same thing as having to wait for the computer to come back re-tuned if the old tune was no good to drive on in the first place. Any near-corrections could be made up for with a SAFC though so I can see how in some situations you could keep driving on the SAFC with the old chips while waiting for new ones. Theres nothing wrong with a rom tune, they are highly recommended, I just figured the car would never be run without methanol and never at high boost pressures so the stock ECU would work good. Not alot of power means 370cc injectors are fine, 250-260rwhp + oem ecu on meth no problem there. Maintain the meth system and use one with fail-safes and that KA motor should last forever and will be super-clean inside, free of deposits and oily residues thanks to water injection.

And it would pack something like 15-20% more torque than an sr20det throughout the range so it can't compare to a stock SR as the KA will have more area under the curve. Like a 5L V8 with only 260 horsepower still moves the car much faster from the dead-stop because 400ft*lbs of torque at 2000rpm is what counts at that moment, not peak HP. It makes the car more fun at low speeds. I had a 97 w/ 40k miles and I was fairly close to doing all this but I realized 250 to the wheels wasn't enough, I needed at least double that. Its gota go 10's to keep up with all these new vettes and teslas now. How crazy fast are things getting?

dmitrysgarage

08-06-2018, 06:53 PM

I have a rom tune partnered with a SAFC... Most of what he said is true. My set up didn't really start ripping until I leaned it out a bit.

Would you go the rom+safc route if you were doing it all over again?

oh if money is no concern. Put a haltech on it if they make a PnP version and go E85 flex fuel.

I wouldn't say money is no concern, but I like to do things right. If I can't afford it I'd rather not do it than hack it up. That being said I do alright, not going to stress out over not being able to resell a tune. I like getting a good deal and I do my own labor, which saves a lot of money. I don't want to waste money on something that is beyond what the project requires. I can appreciate aesthetics of course, but they also have limited value to me. Like I don't know who's paying $7-10K for a set of wheels, that's crazy to me. Then again maybe those people truly don't have a concern financially.

The big issue here is, stock bottom end, cast piston, high compression. It means 93 will never really be good enough by itself. Because even if perfectly tuned on 93 one little hiccup will destroy the motor and you'll be left with no engine because it could be very difficult to find another nice condition KA. Haltech will support that engine much better than OEM ecu because you can also monitor and log all the critical details, such as fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, iat, etc.. and tune it to alert you immediately.

Not a huge fan of E85 when you let cars sit at times. Also it can be so inconstant in quality, at least here. I can buy Gulf E98 or Sunoco E85-R by the barrel, but it's relatively pricey. I'd like to try and keep it pump gas if possible. However, I ran into fuel quality issues with 93 in the Mustang. That's why I'm using race gas, but keep in mind I'm also squeezing out around 200hp/liter at 22 degrees of timing and 11:1 compression. I do hear you on the shortcomings of the KA, but in comparison I'm going to be shooting for 125/hp liter with 9.5:1 compression. I'm hoping that's doable with safe timing and boost without resorting to race gas or meth. If I have to get into a lot of timing like you're saying that will definitely require meth or race gas. Ill look into plug and play systems, I'm sure someone makes one.

I'm not sure exactly what this is asking. But I can tell you this much: when it comes to forced induction on high compression engines with weak cast pistons, you don't want the timing to make the power. You let boost do the work and keep timing as far back as possible to prevent cylinder pressure from spiking up and ruining parts. You are better off with 1-2psi extra or some other power adder, and 2-3* less timing to make more power than the other way around. For example a guy with an N/A engine is sitting at 18* and wants to push 20* but the motor is pinging with 20* sometimes. The 2 extra degrees is making 8-12 ft*lbs more torque so the guy thinks its worth it? Hell no. Because he can pull timing back to 15* and run a 50 shot of nitrous, make 42 extra horsepower and far less risky than that 2 extra degrees of timing.

I think I misunderstood you. You were saying "A stand-alone is essentially the same cons as a rom tune, becuase you still need reduced timing on pump fuels" and I took that to mean I wouldn't be able to reduce timing even with a standalone and was asking why. I totally agree with you on keeping the timing back. You want to make power with boost, not compression and timing. I would normally see where I get with reasonable boost levels, sometimes more boost doesn't give more power if you're at peak efficiency. Then I start working timing back in to a safe level. Like you said there is no sense in riding the knock sensors and it's not worth adding 2 degrees for a few extra horsepower. That's why I didn't push past 22 degrees on the Mustang.

I really like with the way some new cars tune spark advance, you can set a base spark advance and then it will walk it up/down. So normally you're at say 18 degrees and it will attempt to add more timing and you might limit it to say 4 degrees to wind up at 22 degrees as the max it will attempt. That's how my Mustang is tuned, base 18, +/- 4 degrees. In my case the fuel is good and it hits 22 degrees almost instantly when I get into power enrichment. My 93 tune is based at 14 degrees for comparison. The idea is to set a modest base advance and if the fuel is good it will add more timing on it's own, if not it won't or will reduce timing even further.

Your car does not have a factory wideband o2 sensor. You're giving the capabilities of the factory engine management way too much credit, the stock ecu is not so "tunable" like other factory ecu's on other cars. You'd have to install a wideband and "tune" the SAFC while monitoring it, but the ecu or safc is never seeing that wideband o2 reading. Also, you don't have to "mail away" a rom tuned ecu to get another tune. The tuner (RS Enthalpy for example) sends you a new pair of chips in the mail and you install the new chips all while still being able to drive the car.

I realize it's not factory wideband. I was just thinking maybe safc would be able to take one as an input, which in theory, why not right? But, seems not. You could definitely pair one with a boost controller to act as a safety and cut boost. For the mail away, the ones I'm more used to is emailing a file around, but I see what you're saying. The email route is great, you can just be on the phone at the dyno emailing logs and tunes back and forth.

How crazy fast are things getting?

Seems like everyone is running 9s and 10s these days.

FaLKoN240

08-06-2018, 07:40 PM

Would you go the rom+safc route if you were doing it all over again?

I'm big on doing it right or doing it twice. Like I said, out of my drift team of 6 to 7 cars (at our biggest) I had the most reliable, although homebrew pieced together car. My set up is simple as heck. All bolt on aftermarket or repurposed OEM.

The ROM tunes are safe (read RICH TUNE), resellable if you don't get too crazy/unique with your set up and retunable.

Which is why I have the SAFC to make small minor corrections. To lean it out in the lower RPM ranges to pull a few more ponies out without blowing up the motor.

If you want to discuss it further, PM me.

Kingtal0n

08-07-2018, 08:20 AM

the big issue here is a weak engine not designed for high output as it sits. 93 octane with a great tune can still blow up in your face with no warning. That is why meth/E85, its insurance.

With no insurance? it won't matter. Rom tune + safc is as good as any stand-alone when using 93. Stand-alone just allows more logging and fine tuning, which adds 100+ hours to the job, and might reveal 5-10 horsepower, but also leaves more room for mistakes.

What I do depends on budget and goal. A high power goal with 20k, could make 700bhp with an LS engine for 10+ years and if one pops you shit $250 for longblocks. A Handling goal I'd probably shoot for an SR20 because of the weight balance and no need for max power, 350rwhp is typical stock engine longevity territory. Although there are also aluminum six speed LS swaps available with +125~ HP over that and just as handle-able. There really isn't any place for the KA in performance land, it isn't really an option for any of these goals. Except the one where you just want to keep the engine bay looking somewhat original for some reason, and willing to spend more than the other swaps to do that. My org idea was to turbo for a while see how much it would take (350? on meth/water, maybe) and see how I like it, and if I did enjoy it enough, swap in a better engine and leave everything pretty much right where it was (already setup for rear mount). Thus the avoiding of KA specific parts, yank it and forget it, you didn't buy anything for it.

Hoffman5982

08-07-2018, 08:04 PM

^^was about to say this.

KA boom guess who stepped in the room.

It blowing up wasn't a fault of the motor. Even if it was I'd still rather have a KA than SR. But that's just, like, my opinion

dmitrysgarage

08-08-2018, 08:13 AM

If you want to discuss it further, PM me.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it and it's going to help a lot figuring my plans! Will definitely shoot you a PM if I think that's the route I'm going to go.

With no insurance? it won't matter. Rom tune + safc is as good as any stand-alone when using 93. Stand-alone just allows more logging and fine tuning, which adds 100+ hours to the job, and might reveal 5-10 horsepower, but also leaves more room for mistakes.

It shouldn't take 100+ hours to setup a good tune. I'm reading about this mega squirt P&P kit, looks pretty much perfect:

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasquirtpnp-g2-ns9501b-for-96-98-nissan-240sx-manual-trans/
http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/mspnp_g2_ns9501_s14.php
http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/mspnp_g2_genInstall.php?boardVer=13&isModel=2

Wideband o2, closed loop, boost controller, flex fuel sensor support, canbus input, etc... Man seems like it's pretty much a "do everything the new car's ECUs are doing" kit, with the exception of being speed density where most new cars are mass flow. Need to research it more, but that sounds a lot more capable than rom + safc at quick glance. The MS3 Pro looks even better, maf support, etc...

I totally understand what you mean about the insurance of high octane. I'm just saying if the timing has to be too aggressive for comfort on 93 I can go to meth, race gas or E85 if I have to.

What I do depends on budget and goal. A high power goal with 20k, could make 700bhp with an LS engine for 10+ years and if one pops you shit $250 for longblocks.

Man I wish my Coyote engine popping was $250.

spooled240

08-08-2018, 11:00 AM

There really isn't any place for the KA in performance land, it isn't really an option for any of these goals. Except the one where you just want to keep the engine bay looking somewhat original for some reason, and willing to spend more than the other swaps to do that.

Lol bolting on a turbo kit on the KA is not going to be more expensive than swapping in an entirely different motor.

The benefit of the KA-T route is the fact that you can leave the everything intact. This means you keep A/C, heat, cruise, etc.

If we actually had the sr20 in the schassis's here in the states, I don't think people would have started swapping in the KA because it's the best engine..everyone knows that it isn't. People started building the KA because but it's already there and can actually take some boost.

5280VertDET

08-08-2018, 12:12 PM

Don't forget about these:

Nismotronic:
http://www.nismotronic.com/faq.php

Nistune:
https://nistune.com/faq/faq-general

Kingtal0n

08-08-2018, 12:23 PM

Lol bolting on a turbo kit on the KA is not going to be more expensive than swapping in an entirely different motor.

The benefit of the KA-T route is the fact that you can leave the everything intact. This means you keep A/C, heat, cruise, etc.

If we actually had the sr20 in the schassis's here in the states, I don't think people would have started swapping in the KA because it's the best engine..everyone knows that it isn't. People started building the KA because but it's already there and can actually take some boost.

good manifold $400+
good turbo $600+
lines and gaskets $200
Rom tune $500

I could go on but even coming close to the price of a boost ready, same output, higher mpg engine that literally was designed for the car originally you'd be @*[email protected]# to continue. Think of it as, you are fixing the car back to the way it was originally intended, some would say

Hoffman5982

08-08-2018, 12:52 PM

uhhh no..

i bought my last hybrid manifold for $85 shipped. Even having CodyAce do it would be like $250. A used t28 is $300. What lines and gaskets are costing $200? I spent less on gaskets when I did a full rebuild. The bulk of the price comes from ecu and tuning, but after doing so you will most definitely make more power than a stock SR and spend less doing so.

People act like you can buy an SR from Japan and throw it right in. You still have to deal with wiring, radiator, intercooler, etc. I spent more on that stuff when I did my first SR than I originally did to boost my KA, and I spent more overall on the SR than I did for my freshly built, forged bottom end KA. You can argue which engine is more capable all you want, but you simply can't argue the price difference. Especially when red tops are going for nearly $3000 these days.

RalliartRsX

08-08-2018, 12:54 PM

.....yeah, but you are not factoring in blowing it up in the price :D :D :D

Hoffman5982

08-08-2018, 01:00 PM

.....yeah, but you are not factoring in blowing it up in the price :D :D :D

Actually, I am. I boosted my motor, blew the headgasket, then blew the rings out. I completely rebuilt the motor with forged internals and had an issue with the flywheel that caused the bolts to back out and the flywheel to fall off. I replaced the flywheel, crank(with machining), bearings, head(with machining), and gaskets, and I've still spent less overall than I did on my SR which was ultimately stock.

Kingtal0n

08-08-2018, 02:37 PM

uhhh no..

i bought my last hybrid manifold for $85 shipped. Even having CodyAce do it would be like $250. A used t28 is $300. What lines and gaskets are costing $200?

All that stuff is garbage. I would never put a 20 year old turbocharger on any engine these days, not worth it compared to what is available. I don't think the op wants a chipped up smoke machine either, that was never an option and never will be. To press the KA engine it takes at least 38lb/min as the minimum flow rate.

I spent less on gaskets when I did a full rebuild. The bulk of the price comes from ecu and tuning, but after doing so you will most definitely make more power than a stock SR and spend less doing so.

I disagree because when we factor in the SR20's 200,000 miles of reliability vs the 20-40k or whatever you get (u probably didnt even get 20k) from a KA at same 350rwhp it will cost you five to 10x as many KA engines in the long run. Tell me, where is your stock piston KA engine now and how many 350rwhp miles on the stock pistons using only 93 octane fuel? And you can't do a methanol KA comparison because the sr doesn't need that extra $500 safety system with weekly methanol charges.

People act like you can buy an SR from Japan and throw it right in. You still have to deal with wiring, radiator, intercooler, etc.

It takes me a day to do an SR swap. And two days if I want to change all the major gaskets, seals, clutch, and clean everything inside and out. Wiring = free. Radiator = $75 shipped. Intercooler = $180shipped.
heres my old build thread where I did all that in two days at some point
http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread.php/176395-Kingtal0n-s-S14-Kouki-sr20det-Project-Repair-and-Restore

Believe me, I know the cost and it isn't what ten KA engines with stock pistons cost.

price of a new turbo is the same for both engines so it isn't a factor and makes no difference on one engine or the other.

spooled240

08-08-2018, 04:50 PM

All that stuff is garbage. I would never put a 20 year old turbocharger on any engine these days, not worth it compared to what is available.

All that "garbage" is off your SR20 lol

TheRealSy90

08-08-2018, 04:59 PM

FYI an sr20 with an EFR turbo, E85, and proper engine management can do 400whp/400ft-lbs (200hp per litre).
(more power and torque than an entry level LS swap)

pacotaco345

08-08-2018, 05:05 PM

All that stuff is garbage. I would never put a 20 year old turbocharger on any engine these days, not worth it compared to what is available. I don't think the op wants a chipped up smoke machine either, that was never an option and never will be. To press the KA engine it takes at least 38lb/min as the minimum flow rate.

I disagree because when we factor in the SR20's 200,000 miles of reliability vs the 20-40k or whatever you get (u probably didnt even get 20k) from a KA at same 350rwhp it will cost you five to 10x as many KA engines in the long run. Tell me, where is your stock piston KA engine now and how many 350rwhp miles on the stock pistons using only 93 octane fuel? And you can't do a methanol KA comparison because the sr doesn't need that extra $500 safety system with weekly methanol charges.

It takes me a day to do an SR swap. And two days if I want to change all the major gaskets, seals, clutch, and clean everything inside and out. Wiring = free. Radiator = $75 shipped. Intercooler = $180shipped.
heres my old build thread where I did all that in two days at some point
http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread.php/176395-Kingtal0n-s-S14-Kouki-sr20det-Project-Repair-and-Restore

Believe me, I know the cost and it isn't what ten KA engines with stock pistons cost.

price of a new turbo is the same for both engines so it isn't a factor and makes no difference on one engine or the other.

I love how you preach rear mount oil-less turbos like they're God's gift to Earth, and how you wouldn't be caught dead with a pre historic used t28 that anyone can pick up on the classifieds for $400 all day long, then you go tell OP to shove a Band-Aid SAFC 1999-tech bullshit box on a perfectly good car. That's just asking for trouble. For fine tuning a mail in tune do they work? Yeah.. For developing a tune from scratch to turbo your motor that was never designed to have a turbo strapped to it? LOL. Not to mention in the same post you reference $180 ebay intercooler kits and $75 shitty radiators that are welded together by some smelly dude in Taiwan with Parkinsons disease.

...Which brings me to my next point, are you advocating for a KA or an SR? Because you keep talking shit about KAs, then telling OP to go do some Mickey Mouse ghetto hack job like fabbing up intercooler piping that runs the length of the car, and splicing in a water/meth kit that WILL run out of juice while he's driving eventually. And that WILL blow up a KA when it's being fed 12 pounds of boost with nothing to compensate besides a SAFC in Texas heat. If you love SRs so much why don't you just tell him to swap in a stock SR and not deal with any of the bullshit?

That being said, even though I would never put a KA-T in my car over an SR, turboing that brand new KA the right way sounds a lot more reliable than throwing in some aging, beat to shit SR that got pulled out of a wrecker somewhere in JP and has been sitting upside-down in a freight container for 2 months.

OP: If you want to stay KA, then there's a tried and true recipe to make 300 hp reliably, and its already been mentioned in the thread.

$500 Tomei cast manifold (cast because it will NEVER crack)
$200 Tomei turbo elbow
$0-500 Whatever exhaust you want (stock is good for killing about 20-30 hp)
$100-500 Whatever intercooler kit you want (that s15 sidemount setup is pretty slick)
$400 S14/15 t28 @ 14 psi
$200 740cc injectors
$100 z maf
$100 turbo lines/mod the oil pan for an oil return
$1000 for a decent standalone, I suggest finding a reputable tuner and buying whatever he/she likes to use the most.

All that will put you at the price of buying an SR swap from an importer, it will make a little more torque, and you'll have the peace of mind knowing that your engine was in good condition to start with, and that you had eyes on everything that got put on the car.

You can go on youtube and look up "tomei making of KA-T" and you'll see their whole R&D process behind building that motor, as well as how much power it made. Actually, thinking of it now, that build is probably something along the lines that you'd be shooting for.

Hoffman5982

08-08-2018, 05:21 PM

“No one wants a 20 year old turbo”

...what do you think comes on an sr? And with a good tune a 300-350whp ka will last just as long as that sr. I’ve seen plenty of sr’s blow up at 300hp. Don’t forget we’re talking about a 16k mile ka. You’re not going to make 300+ on an sr without turbo, injector, and ecu upgrades either, so now you’re looking at even more money. I didn’t say anything about how fast you can swap it in.

Kingtal0n

08-08-2018, 09:04 PM

thanks to everyone for posts :D

All that "garbage" is off your SR20 lol

Yep and I would not use it. Why go through all the trouble to install an engine using 20 year old parts that are on the verge of replacement? The issue now with sr20's is age + mileage. Not performance, we know they perform well. The idea being discussed here, the comparison contrast isn't between sr vs ka, and it isn't between hp vs dollars. The real comparison being made here is reliability vs effort, and then we can include cost for a final stats breakdown once the truly reliable, least effort pathways are exposed. And I will address this further if you will bide...

FYI an sr20 with an EFR turbo, E85, and proper engine management can do 400whp/400ft-lbs (200hp per litre).
(more power and torque than an entry level LS swap)

Almost an Excellent point, and a great reason not to go N/A LS swap. All that work and extra money for a big engine, and your car isn't any faster where it counts (trap speed). This was/is my excuse for never going N/A LS swap in a 2800lb vehicle.
On the other hand, 400 is pushing it for an OEM sr20. 400rwhp is so easy on a redtop, but its just a tad higher than I would comfortably daily a reliable stock sr20det engine with, personal opinion. Look at the other engine, the LS is barely working at 400 and weighs about the same, whereas the sr20 could go/blow apart any minute due to all that boost and rpm on stock internals and presumably sometimes poor fuel condition. Reliability rears its ugly head in the form of 'potentially unreliable'. Changing engines is always more effort than not changing engines and is less reliable. I can say the LS at 400 would last 10 or 20 years with a 98-99% confidence interval. That is essentially how/why they are made and there are thousands (hundred thousands?) examples. Whereas with sr20's I cannot think/find even one or two good examples of 400hp/20 years, and even if I could it wouldn't form a substantial sample size to draw reasonable confidence/conclusions from. Feel free to add statistical evidence of such models it would be interesting to find some and do some better comparisons.

I love how you preach rear mount oil-less turbos like they're God's gift to Earth, and how you wouldn't be caught dead with a pre historic used t28 that anyone can pick up on the classifieds for $400 all day long,

Because I've gone this route. I bought a $380 shipped T-28 once and I never will again because it was a huge mistake. It looked great and had no shaft play, but when Installed finally it made a loud whining noise. It was also all chipped up from years of abuse and no bypass valve. The price of a brand new top mount turbo is around $500~ from a large variety of manufacturers so playing russian roulette with used 20 year old junk is [email protected]*(&@ #(*&@#@ "won't be caught dead doing that again" is right. Not to mention their technology is so outdated, what you can get now is light years beyond it. Twice the power with similar spool I say is possible. GFL with that old junk, it isn't an option anymore 2018.

then you go tell OP to shove a Band-Aid SAFC 1999-tech bullshit box on a perfectly good car. That's just asking for trouble. For fine tuning a mail in tune do they work? Yeah.. For developing a tune from scratch to turbo your motor that was never designed to have a turbo strapped to it? LOL. Not to mention in the same post you reference $180 ebay intercooler kits and $75 shitty radiators that are welded together by some smelly dude in Taiwan with Parkinsons disease.

Hmm I guess you don't tune cars. The only thing the SAFC cant do is control timing and the only reason that isn't an issue is because the methanol and the only reason there is methanol is because its a stock cast piston KA that should never be run without meth or E85. Therefore, logic follows:
always has meth -> timing isn't an issue at 8-10psi of boost -> safc is the best/cheapest alternative, least amount of effort and high reliability. The only thing more reliable is to actually control the timing, which means only slightly less timing (two to 5 degrees), which means less power (5 to 12 ft*lb of torque probs). In other words, its a significant additional cost to rom-tune/stand-alone ($500-$1500) for such an insignificant change (2-5* less timing and 5 to 12~ less torque). What I suggest things I do these statistical analysis so you can rest assured it was an appropriate series of assumptions that led me to that route.

Now, the cheap ebay parts, there are some good one and some terrile ones. Ebay radiators WORK GOOD. If you turbo the KA you would want the Aluminum KA radiator anyways (not using plastic end tanks ftw) so the cost is not important. It doesn't matter if you bought a $75 or $200 radiator because EITHER WAY, with BOTH engines, you still have to buy one, whichever one you would have bought to begin with.

The same thing goes for an intercooler. You can't say that $intercooler cost is part of the SR swap and nothing to do with the turbo KA because the turbo KA still needs an intercooler. So again, it won't matter if you spent $5 or $500 for an intercooler because thats the same intercooler you would have purchased regardless of which engine you have. The cost of those parts is not part of the equation at all and cannot be fairly used 'against' one engine or the other.

...Which brings me to my next point, are you advocating for a KA or an SR? Because you keep talking shit about KAs, then telling OP to go do some Mickey Mouse ghetto hack job like fabbing up intercooler piping that runs the length of the car, and splicing in a water/meth kit that WILL run out of juice while he's driving eventually.

Nay mate, you misunderstand my visions. The purpose of the rear mount turbo orientation is not really just power. It is more for elegance, a fabricators masterpiece. A car that needs to stand out as artwork in the form of welding and cutting. The entire underside of a vehicle is as cosmetic in appearance attributes to 'car people' as the paint is to regular people. The rear-mount gives the owner/fabricator the maximum amount of potential for creation of such art, in the form of an exceptionally well engineered system. The cost of such a system could be in excess of $10,000 or more when done right. I am not sure anybody realizes how much it costs to run full high quality stainless oval tube tig welded, coated, and then covered by more custom sheets/plates to be protected from the environment and insulated to contain that fire and put it to work. If done right, it becomes the car, you are driving that artwork, tolerably efficient spectacular artwork.

here is an stand-out example
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125448&stc=1&d=1436188232
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/158561-Aerochargers-TT-more-testing/page8

And that WILL blow up a KA when it's being fed 12 pounds of boost with nothing to compensate besides a SAFC in Texas heat. If you love SRs so much why don't you just tell him to swap in a stock SR and not deal with any of the bullshit?

I'd never run an KA turbo without meth or E85 in 2018, said it several times pls read...
If you opted for 93 only the reduced timing would be a necessity instead of just a recommendation and a SAFC would not work. But I never once suggested pump gas + safc by itself. I mentioned several times that it would be used in conjunction with Methanol/water.

That being said, even though I would never put a KA-T in my car over an SR, turboing that brand new KA the right way sounds a lot more reliable than throwing in some aging, beat to shit SR that got pulled out of a wrecker somewhere in JP and has been sitting upside-down in a freight container for 2 months.

I also never suggested an original SR20det either. The rough truth is I don't advocate either engine in a 240sx unless you are able to deal with rebuilds in 2018. The sr20's are too old to rely on heavily without a rebuild, and the KA engines even new are still fragile higher compression truck motors with too much stroke to be practical/reliable in motorsports competition event., and they too have no replacements easily available either.

Ex. if you bought $5000 in parts for the KA engine and blow it up. Where are you going to get another 13k miles KA engine to drop in? That KA motor is worth $800-$1000 if sold at 15k miles to the right person. I would suggest to sell it for $800 and use that money towards a rebuilt SR20 that you follow FSM procedure in a clean room with all the right tools and put a turbo on THAT at 350-400rwhp for ~10 years. At least we know the sr20 will do the job and our effort vs reliability will pay off, IF the motor rebuild goes swimmingly. spectacularly. Whereas the KA Is always/still a wild card, question mark, and irresplacable, and parts from which are un-reusable. To many ifs and oopses I'm afraidses.

“No one wants a 20 year old turbo”

...what do you think comes on an sr? And with a good tune a 300-350whp ka will last just as long as that sr. I’ve seen plenty of sr’s blow up at 300hp. Don’t forget we’re talking about a 16k mile ka. You’re not going to make 300+ on an sr without turbo, injector, and ecu upgrades either, so now you’re looking at even more money. I didn’t say anything about how fast you can swap it in.

If I bought an sr, I hope you read the above, I'd ditch the turbo and buy a new one no questions. Its part of the cost in 2018 or it isn't worth it. Turbo tech has come so far it would be #)(@*# to use the 20 year old junk. SR20det come from Japan with 280-300bhp so 320-350bhp is barely pushing it, an extra cold day, the engineers that design engines account for those extra cold days and then more, with respect to the yield/fracture limits the engine will be exposed to under a variety of conditions. If it blows up at that level it wasn't the engines fault. I've seen enough sr20's with proper parts survive unthinkable terrors so I am fairly confident in the success rate of even the stock low compression cast piston sr20 models around 350rwhp to advocate a fresh one at that level for 10-20 years.

Finally, I would never use a redtop. Its absolutely the most ancient sr20 out there, and lacks VTC. Use the S14 version and maintain the VTC working properly for best results.

Hoffman5982

08-08-2018, 10:26 PM

tb13

08-08-2018, 10:30 PM

Slapping a turbo on the KA and doing it right would be great if you are going to keep the power around 300whp. It'll be a hell of a lot quicker than stock and probably last quite sometime with a proper tune and supporting mods. I have seen local guys romp on stock KA's on low boost for event after even without fail.

If the car were mine I'd opt for an SR all day, every day. Get your hands on a clean S14 or S15 SR20 and completely refresh it. Keep it stupid simple, get it tuned for whatever octane fuel you have locally and enjoy it. As others have stated, a stock SR is bullet proof if maintained properly, swap it and never look back.

Kingtal0n

08-08-2018, 10:54 PM

We’re talking about whp here. Notchtops are rated at 220, s15’s at 250. Put it on the dyno and they MIGHT break 210 at the wheels. Once again, if you’re changing the turbo, therefore requiring a tune” that adds even more to the total price. No thanks, I’d rather spend less and have a freshly rebuilt ka with more power, better power band, and significantly more reliability due to freshness and forgedness. It’s not rocket appliance, it’s easy to comprehend. What’s the downfall, a lower rev limit? 7200 is plenty for me. In fact I bump mine down to 6900.

I owned a stock S15 Silvia and maxed it on the dyno at 305rwhp. changed the turbo and at the same boost pressure (17psi) made 350rwhp. No issues there.

Forged is not better with 4-cylinder typical JDM engines. Forged is less reliable, not good for a daily. Needs proper setup for success. Oil acumulator or rod bearing #1 is toast after 15-20k miles in sr20's I've seen over and over. KA? good ruck

Hoffman5982

08-08-2018, 11:12 PM

You're still missing the point. You changed the turbo, injectors, maf and got a tune, I can only assume on a powerfc since it's the most common. None of that is cheap and adds to the already high price of the SR motorset. Building a KA will still cost less. I disagree with a built motor being unreliable as I have seen many run for years, but for the sake of the argument you could do an oem rebuild, have it blueprinted, and make the same 350whp with just as much, if not more reliability, more torque, and less boost, all for less money.

Kingtal0n

08-09-2018, 12:09 AM

You're still missing the point. You changed the turbo, injectors, maf and got a tune, I can only assume on a powerfc since it's the most common. None of that is cheap and adds to the already high price of the SR motorset. Building a KA will still cost less.

I think it is you who are missing the point- you still need to buy all that same stuff for the KA. It just costs more, and is worth less.

Sorry man gota buy turbo maf injectors ecu etc... no matter what no matter which engine you pick. If I am forced to buy those things its better to buy for an application that is common so the re-sale value is higher. Or a setup that can cross-platform coexist. Thus the recommendation of a rear mounted 600hp turbo that couldn't care less whether you had the KA or SR or LS or 2J or 1J or RB or VQ application. Swap each engine in, all day long same power output maximum regardless of displacement because its the turbo, not the engine, that makes the power.

Invest in the car- win even when you lose the engine
Invest in the engine- lose if you lose the engine

15k miles chassis at stake, as an engineer you aren't building an engine or a swap, the engineer is building the car. Chassis support, stability, fabrication that will look mint and serve a higher purpose no matter how the car is used. And will re-route as many parts as possible throughout the car's life to be viable regardless of what is going on with the engine flavor of the week. The KA obviously isn't going to stay forever; they never do.

Hoffman5982

08-09-2018, 12:36 AM

I think it is you who are missing the point- you still need to buy all that same stuff for the KA. It just costs more, and is worth less.

Sorry man gota buy turbo maf injectors ecu etc... no matter what no matter which engine you pick.

I'm not missing the point and I very obviously understand that you have to buy all the stuff considering we're discussing adding a turbo to a non turbo engine. That was by far the most redundant statement possibly in the history of this forum. You clearly are missing the point which is that, and I'd like for this to be the last time I state so please pay attention here: It will still cost less than an SR setup.

If I am forced to buy those things its better to buy for an application that is common so the re-sale value is higher.

If you're building a car for resale value, please quit. That said, you of all people making that statement is hilarious since you're the one that's always pm'ing people with "I need this and I need it for this price" and the price you demand is always a pretty significant lowball. But that's a whole other discussion.

Or a setup that can cross-platform coexist. Thus the recommendation of a rear mounted 600hp turbo that couldn't care less whether you had the KA or SR or LS or 2J or 1J or RB or VQ application. Swap each engine in, all day long same power output maximum regardless of displacement because its the turbo, not the engine, that makes the power.

Did you really say it's the turbo that makes the power?? I....I don't even know how to respond to that ridiculous statement. No. Just no. A 2871r will make more power on a KA than an SR. A gt35 will make more power on a JZ than an SR. Yeah, you can run 18psi on an sr and make the same power as the same turbo at 10psi on a ka, but that's yet another pointless comparison.

The KA obviously isn't going to stay forever; they never do.

There are too many people that disprove that idiotic statement.

pacotaco345

08-09-2018, 12:42 AM

Because I've gone this route. I bought a $380 shipped T-28 once and I never will again because it was a huge mistake. It looked great and had no shaft play, but when Installed finally it made a loud whining noise. It was also all chipped up from years of abuse and no bypass valve. The price of a brand new top mount turbo is around $500~ from a large variety of manufacturers so playing russian roulette with used 20 year old junk is [email protected]*(&@ #(*&@#@ "won't be caught dead doing that again" is right. Not to mention their technology is so outdated, what you can get now is light years beyond it. Twice the power with similar spool I say is possible. GFL with that old junk, it isn't an option anymore 2018.

Sucks you got screwed, wanna cry about it? I ran a used s15 t28 for two years till the motor ate a throttle body screw, spit it out the exhaust, and fed it to the turbo. Said motor made 320 wheel and full boost at 3200 rpm. Hard to argue with those results.

Hmm I guess you don't tune cars. The only thing the SAFC cant do is control timing and the only reason that isn't an issue is because the methanol and the only reason there is methanol is because its a stock cast piston KA that should never be run without meth or E85. Therefore, logic follows:
always has meth -> timing isn't an issue at 8-10psi of boost -> safc is the best/cheapest alternative, least amount of effort and high reliability. The only thing more reliable is to actually control the timing, which means only slightly less timing (two to 5 degrees), which means less power (5 to 12 ft*lb of torque probs). In other words, its a significant additional cost to rom-tune/stand-alone ($500-$1500) for such an insignificant change (2-5* less timing and 5 to 12~ less torque). What I suggest things I do these statistical analysis so you can rest assured it was an appropriate series of assumptions that led me to that route.

CORRECTION, the only thing the SAFC CAN do is modify the MAF signal going to the ecu. Which (yes) can alter fueling to whatever you desire, but can also put you in a part of the timing map where you shouldn't be for the load that the motor is experiencing. Obviously you don't tune cars. Also, here's this for your statistical bullshit. An SAFC is $200, water meth is another $3-400. A good ROM tune is $500 from Martin at RS, and a used standalone can be had for as cheap as $400.. Why would you ever recommend the SAFC?

Now, the cheap ebay parts, there are some good one and some terrile ones. Ebay radiators WORK GOOD. If you turbo the KA you would want the Aluminum KA radiator anyways (not using plastic end tanks ftw) so the cost is not important. It doesn't matter if you bought a $75 or $200 radiator because EITHER WAY, with BOTH engines, you still have to buy one, whichever one you would have bought to begin with.

The same thing goes for an intercooler. You can't say that $intercooler cost is part of the SR swap and nothing to do with the turbo KA because the turbo KA still needs an intercooler. So again, it won't matter if you spent $5 or $500 for an intercooler because thats the same intercooler you would have purchased regardless of which engine you have. The cost of those parts is not part of the equation at all and cannot be fairly used 'against' one engine or the other.

You missed my point, I wasn't arguing the that the cost for a new radiator was more for one motor or the other. I was pointing out that you're ruining your credibility by mentioning a $10,000 turbo setup in the same thread you mentioned using a $75 radiator. Decide if you want to be an elitist prick or a cheap bastard, but don't flip flop between the two. It makes you sound like an idiot.

Nay mate, you misunderstand my visions. The purpose of the rear mount turbo orientation is not really just power. It is more for elegance, a fabricators masterpiece. A car that needs to stand out as artwork in the form of welding and cutting. The entire underside of a vehicle is as cosmetic in appearance attributes to 'car people' as the paint is to regular people. The rear-mount gives the owner/fabricator the maximum amount of potential for creation of such art, in the form of an exceptionally well engineered system. The cost of such a system could be in excess of $10,000 or more when done right. I am not sure anybody realizes how much it costs to run full high quality stainless oval tube tig welded, coated, and then covered by more custom sheets/plates to be protected from the environment and insulated to contain that fire and put it to work. If done right, it becomes the car, you are driving that artwork, tolerably efficient spectacular artwork.

WTF did I just read, its a 1995 Nissan 240sx not the Mona Lisa. Also, way to post a rear mount turbo setup out of an NSX where the motor IS IN THE BACK. Of course it makes sense to do it in that car.

I'd never run an KA turbo without meth or E85 in 2018, said it several times pls read...
If you opted for 93 only the reduced timing would be a necessity instead of just a recommendation and a SAFC would not work. But I never once suggested pump gas + safc by itself. I mentioned several times that it would be used in conjunction with Methanol/water.

Oh I read where you mentioned that, several times. But why would you ever recommend an SAFC, water/meth Band-Aid wombo combo when a standalone could be had for the same price? And you won't ever run out of juice? And you know exactly what the tune looks like.

I also never suggested an original SR20det either. The rough truth is I don't advocate either engine in a 240sx unless you are able to deal with rebuilds in 2018. The sr20's are too old to rely on heavily without a rebuild, and the KA engines even new are still fragile higher compression truck motors with too much stroke to be practical/reliable in motorsports competition event., and they too have no replacements easily available either.

You were literally bragging about swapping an SR into a 240 in a day as a viable justification for the motor. Unless you're gonna tell me you rebuilt that whole motor in a day also?

If I bought an sr, I hope you read the above, I'd ditch the turbo and buy a new one no questions. Its part of the cost in 2018 or it isn't worth it. Turbo tech has come so far it would be #)(@*# to use the 20 year old junk. SR20det come from Japan with 280-300bhp so 320-350bhp is barely pushing it, an extra cold day, the engineers that design engines account for those extra cold days and then more, with respect to the yield/fracture limits the engine will be exposed to under a variety of conditions. If it blows up at that level it wasn't the engines fault. I've seen enough sr20's with proper parts survive unthinkable terrors so I am fairly confident in the success rate of even the stock low compression cast piston sr20 models around 350rwhp to advocate a fresh one at that level for 10-20 years.

Finally, I would never use a redtop. Its absolutely the most ancient sr20 out there, and lacks VTC. Use the S14 version and maintain the VTC working properly for best results.

By the way, I just put together an e85 SR, with an efr turbo, id1050s, standalone, the whole jazz. It goes to the dyno on Saturday. I realize the advantage to rebuilding a motor with modern technology, but I can also have fun with a 20 year old setup in a 20 year old car, and I did for several years. By the way my motor is non VTC because I prefer the powerband feeling "older". Hate me.

Stop trying to use big words to sound smart and go back to your $10,000 turbo setup, ebay radiator cars in Florida.

Kingtal0n

08-09-2018, 11:17 AM

It will still cost less than an SR setup.

This is very unlikely.
Lets do the labor math:

1. turbo KA engine
2. blow KA engine trying to make 350rwhp (400bhp) cast piston seizure
3. reBuild KA engine (machine work, labor, "DOING IT TWICE")
4. Blow KA engine from stupid mistake or fail machine work
5. reBuild KA engine "doing it three times"
6. Blow KA engine more fail machine work, block is toast
7. Get another KA engine block
8. reBuild KA engine "fourth try"
...

No, this doesn't cost less than using the right engine right off the bat. Even if parts are free, machine shop plus labor costs more in terms of time. You ain't going no where fast like that, for cheap.

If you're building a car for resale value, please quit.

LOL if you spend money on a car and then lose it, you are doing it wrong. I've never done that.

Did you really say it's the turbo that makes the power?? I....I don't even know how to respond to that ridiculous statement. No. Just no. A 2871r will make more power on a KA than an SR. A gt35 will make more power on a JZ than an SR. Yeah, you can run 18psi on an sr and make the same power as the same turbo at 10psi on a ka, but that's yet another pointless comparison.

No sorry, wrong. I guess you don't build engines and cars all day. Compressor map has the max flow limitation, not the engine. All those motors will make the same peak power minus drivetrain losses with the same turbo, except for the engines where displacement pushes the compressor off the map even sooner before reaching appropriate boost levels. Like a T-28 on a V8 would.

Boost is meaningless. It is just a measure of restriction in an intake manifold. Engines do not have "boost capacity" or "boost limits" they have FUEL limits and POWER limits which have nothing to do with fluid restriction.

There are too many people that disprove that idiotic statement.

actually I used the word "forever" which is a VERY long time. Eventually even if you put a 0 miles 240sx in a clean room for 999999 years at some point that motor/car is going to disappear.

So, not wrong :D

jumpman2334

08-09-2018, 11:24 AM

LOL if you spend money on a car and then lose it, you are doing it wrong. I've never done that.

for the amount these cars and parts depreciate its very unlikely your statement I've quoted is true. but you go ahead and keep telling yourself that.

with that said, im not picking a side but this thread went down the shitter quick. zilvia is alive and well.

Kingtal0n

08-09-2018, 11:43 AM

Sucks you got screwed, wanna cry about it? I ran a used s15 t28 for two years till the motor ate a throttle body screw, spit it out the exhaust, and fed it to the turbo. Said motor made 320 wheel and full boost at 3200 rpm. Hard to argue with those results.

It isn't an experience I wish on other people so I am glad to share it for their sake

CORRECTION, the only thing the SAFC CAN do is modify the MAF signal going to the ecu. Which (yes) can alter fueling to whatever you desire, but can also put you in a part of the timing map where you shouldn't be for the load that the motor is experiencing. Obviously you don't tune cars. Also, here's this for your statistical bullshit. An SAFC is $200, water meth is another $3-400. A good ROM tune is $500 from Martin at RS, and a used standalone can be had for as cheap as $400.. Why would you ever recommend the SAFC?

Have to repeat myself? Again?

As many have mentioned an SAFC is still required with a rom tune.

I also said ROM tune is highly recommended. SAFC would be required regardless and that METH system is easy to re-sell, whereas ROM TUNE for KA engine is NOT easy to re-sell.

You missed my point, I wasn't arguing the that the cost for a new radiator was more for one motor or the other. I was pointing out that you're ruining your credibility by mentioning a $10,000 turbo setup in the same thread you mentioned using a $75 radiator. Decide if you want to be an elitist prick or a cheap bastard, but don't flip flop between the two. It makes you sound like an idiot.

You just don't understand the way I think after building hundred cars. Those radiators are intended to be 'throw aways'. they are part of the vehicle that does not last as long as the vehicle. The radiator you install initially in a 20 year old engine config often gets ruined inside due to the previous owners maintenance, disgusting orange/brown tap water garbage ruins your nice new expensive radiator right off the bat. Seen it too many times. So, I start out with the cheapest radiator possible so that I can flush the system throughout weeks of driving it until satisfied the system is clean enough to install a high quality Griffen radiator or similar and trash the old ruined one.

WTF did I just read, its a 1995 Nissan 240sx not the Mona Lisa. Also, way to post a rear mount turbo setup out of an NSX where the motor IS IN THE BACK. Of course it makes sense to do it in that car.

That's where most people go wrong. To me, each car is a work of art in progress. That is why my vehicles value increases. Do you need to see the 2000rwhp corvette using twin rear mounts that spool faster than a single 2jzgte at half the power?

Oh I read where you mentioned that, several times. But why would you ever recommend an SAFC, water/meth Band-Aid wombo combo when a standalone could be had for the same price? And you won't ever run out of juice? And you know exactly what the tune looks like.

Just predicting the future. And making subtle calculations.

The calculations part goes like this (and this IS A REPEAT you can read above also)
The stand-alone is not going to protect the cast fragile KA piston engine. Even with a stand-alone, 93 octane is NOT REALLY SAFE. Some reasons sr20det gets by with that, is because lower 8.5 or 9:1 compression, plus piston oil squirters, plus shorter stroke, plus combustion chamber tech, plus the fluid(air is a fluid) pathways are intended to be high density (the motor was designed with turbocharging in mind). It all adds up. Main girdle support for stability. Coil on plug. I cannot say the same for the KA engine which lacks all of those support features for boost.

Here is the predicting the future part:
If ANYBODY turbos a factory cast piston KA engine, they are very likely to explode that engine esp if its the first time, and not even their fault. Accidents happen. Its just so extremely common you can't do it without expecting it (always expect the worst). So that's where I 'hit a wall' for this op's car. I seriously doubt he wants to turbo that 17k mile engine, then pull it out a couple months later to completely rebuild it. I don't think that is a very good plan. But that seems to be what everybody wants for it. Even the other guy blew his up and probably has less than 10k on it and claims "all is well" when I know damn well in 20k hes going to need another one.

Nah. The op strikes me more as a "set it and forget it" type. 200,000 miles of reliability is desirable in many applications. Built engines typically offer 5-10% of factory reliability, and the factory one is a ticking time bomb no matter who turbos it. So that is why I am so concerned with the "re-sale ability" of all the parts he buys. This is a money saving tactic that will also save headache, by keeping the parts non-KA specific.

Not to mention: That KA would be worth more as it sits (sell it for positive money coming in, instead of money going out). This is simple math here. Would you rather have a few months of fun then potentially spend $2000 on machine work wait weeks/months and get something back that needs rebuild again at 20k miles. And even if it doesn't, will show significant signs of skirt/piston wear due to the forged piston clearances required, and pitting/damaged rod bearing due to cold-starts using thick oil with large main bearing clearances (common but avoidable). Or just put that money towards a proper engine that the car was designed for. Rocket science?

By the way, I just put together an e85 SR, with an efr turbo, id1050s, standalone, the whole jazz. It goes to the dyno on Saturday. I realize the advantage to rebuilding a motor with modern technology, but I can also have fun with a 20 year old setup in a 20 year old car, and I did for several years. By the way my motor is non VTC because I prefer the powerband feeling "older". Hate me.

Stop trying to use big words to sound smart and go back to your $10,000 turbo setup, ebay radiator cars in Florida.

I don't use big words lol. I purposes re-write my paragraphs with smaller words because I am afraid people will accuse me using big words. What big words are too big for you? Lol I'll try to dumb down some more.

Kingtal0n

08-09-2018, 11:50 AM

for the amount these cars and parts depreciate its very unlikely your statement I've quoted is true. but you go ahead and keep telling yourself that.

with that said, im not picking a side but this thread went down the shitter quick. zilvia is alive and well.

Dude WHERE do you LIVE? Because here in Florida, the price of 240sx goes up daily, and they become more rare and difficult to find.

Real professionals know what is worth $$ and it isn't the engine swap or power output.

Ex.1 last year I found a dealer that got a Base model 95 with 130k as a trade in. He took $2800 for it (I overpaid)
couple weeks later somebody that Mazworx sponsors came down from Canada to get it for $5000 after seeing the underside.

Ex.2 two years ago I found a random white 97 for $5200 and was able to get $9800 for it after driving it for a year.

I only cleaned them.
Out of respect I don't post what I paid and sold my built cars for because the owners might not want that info public. However if you are curious you can always PM me. That said, I tend to double my money because it isn't worth the effort to sell and re-build unless you have something left over once finished.

spooled240

08-09-2018, 12:18 PM

This is very unlikely.
Lets do the labor math:

1. turbo KA engine
2. blow KA engine trying to make 350rwhp (400bhp) cast piston seizure
3. reBuild KA engine (machine work, labor, "DOING IT TWICE")
4. Blow KA engine from stupid mistake or fail machine work
5. reBuild KA engine "doing it three times"
6. Blow KA engine more fail machine work, block is toast
7. Get another KA engine block
8. reBuild KA engine "fourth try"
...

No, this doesn't cost less than using the right engine right off the bat. Even if parts are free, machine shop plus labor costs more in terms of time. You ain't going no where fast like that, for cheap.

Ok, you're just trolling...I hope.

I've been KA-T for over 10 years on the same block and only blew the ringlands twice. Once from a bad fuel pump and the other from my stupidity. What did I do both times? Tore the head off, honed the cylinder walls and dropped new pistons in(forged the second time). I guess I still have to blow the motor two more times! lol

Hoffman5982

08-09-2018, 12:32 PM

I really have nothing left to say, your statements are getting increasingly ridiculous. I feel like if we continue you're going to start telling us we're dumb if we don't spend $800 on wheel spacers.

FaLKoN240

08-09-2018, 12:51 PM

This dude has taken over the thread with his "matter of fact" opinion.

You guys are constantly rebuking him. Just add him to your ignore list.

It's not your civic duty to defend the KA or to prove him wrong.

He's on that Florida water. Just let it go.

jumpman2334

08-09-2018, 01:23 PM

Dude WHERE do you LIVE? Because here in Florida, the price of 240sx goes up daily, and they become more rare and difficult to find.

it would appear we are comparing apples to oranges here. im on the west. apologies.

feito

08-09-2018, 06:53 PM

it would appear we are comparing apples to oranges here. im on the west. apologies.
Wait, is the 240 still being produced in the west, or what?
Anyway, why isn't this shit locked? Same questions are asked by a regular noob, he gets flamed and his shit locked in no time. Same shit is asked by a guy with a nice garage, all of the sudden is a serious 4 page thread. Fuck that, all this info is already out there. Ya'll be the first ones to respond SEARCH!

RalliartRsX

08-09-2018, 07:38 PM

Great way to scare away the OP with inane discussion and dick swinging.

Welcome to Zilvia OP

jumpman2334

08-10-2018, 09:26 AM

Wait, is the 240 still being produced in the west, or what?
no, but from what I've seen you wouldn't have a problem buying one at a good/decent price.

my favorite example to use in this context is IS300s. you can usually find a handful of factory manual/LSD cars within a couple of hours drive. i was able to find mine very quickly. lots of people from the east coast buy them here because they are cheaper, more plentiful, and have less rust. some east coasters buy them here without ever laying eyes on the car and have it shipped back.

Kingtal0n

08-10-2018, 11:28 AM

Ok, you're just trolling...I hope.

I've been KA-T for over 10 years on the same block and only blew the ringlands twice. Once from a bad fuel pump and the other from my stupidity. What did I do both times? Tore the head off, honed the cylinder walls and dropped new pistons in(forged the second time). I guess I still have to blow the motor two more times! lol

lol at the arguments in favor of the KA engine being

"its no problem just yank the motor do a rebuild and put it back in wtf is the big deal" only blew the ringlands twice rofl

The big deal is the whole point (apparently) of using a KA engine to begin with is because "ITS ALREADY IN THE CAR". If you have to remove the engine for ANY REASON it no longer makes sense to put it back in the car. It completely demolishes your arguments of using it because its easy. Now hes done ALL the work of swapping an engine in a car with 20,000 miles (op's car) twice or more, gfj

Hoffman5982

08-10-2018, 12:32 PM

Edit: nvm it doesn’t matter

turbo2nr

08-10-2018, 01:52 PM

OMG when did it get so complicated to turbo a ka????

Are we in early 2000's where were running safc + rom tunes ????
Just get a standalone and tune it correctly.

This thread hurts my head.. why is there so much discussion on how to ka-t?

Its a 240sx not a ferrari. Just mod it how you see fit.

spooled240

08-10-2018, 04:52 PM

lol at the arguments in favor of the KA engine being

"its no problem just yank the motor do a rebuild and put it back in wtf is the big deal" only blew the ringlands twice rofl

The big deal is the whole point (apparently) of using a KA engine to begin with is because "ITS ALREADY IN THE CAR". If you have to remove the engine for ANY REASON it no longer makes sense to put it back in the car. It completely demolishes your arguments of using it because its easy. Now hes done ALL the work of swapping an engine in a car with 20,000 miles (op's car) twice or more, gfj

the "only blew ringlands twice" was a bit tongue in cheek since you mentioned a KA-T would apparently would blow 4 times. And I didn't have to remove the engine to replace the pistons..

Kingtal0n

08-12-2018, 12:20 AM

1. Everybody in this thread pushing the KA has blown it up already.

2. This guys KA has 17k miles. That motor could hit 200,000 easily if left alone.

I just don't think he wants to pull the head off in 3 months and 3,000 miles.

And 3. replacing pistons, especially different sized pistons, with the engine in the car is the /facepalmest thing I've ever heard. Nevermind machine work, piston/wall clearance, bore with a deck plate to use proper studs, checking the bearings with the crankshaft removed is essential for a proper rebuild, and the list goes on. Nobody should half-ass this ... but someone always does

If I get bored I'll do a more full price comparison for the KA options to show how bad it really is on paper.

Hoffman5982

08-12-2018, 01:02 AM

I've blown up more SR's than KA's, the big difference was the SR's were stock and lightly driven, whereas the ka was beat on for 5 years and then doubled in power and only died because of a faulty cooling system. On top of that, the KA originally cost me $60 whereas the SR initially cost me $2500.

Also weren't you talking about using an safc? That's the real facepalm.

Lastly, do you ever shut up?

spooled240

08-12-2018, 01:13 AM

If I get bored I'll do a more full price comparison for the KA options to show how bad it really is on paper.

I'd like to see this. Please include your Nostradamus predictions on when the KA will blow and how many hundreds of thousands of miles the SR will trek without any issues on the $75 ebay radiator.

Kingtal0n

08-12-2018, 10:01 PM

If you check my initial recommendation I had plans to turbo the KA. Now why would I turbo the KA willingly if I was somehow against it.

I am not against turbo KA. In fact my current engine is a free truck engine on boost, same as KA. Why do you make statements as this:

I've blown up more SR's than KA's, the big difference was the SR's were stock and lightly driven, whereas the ka was beat on for 5 years and then doubled in power and only died because of a faulty cooling system. On top of that, the KA originally cost me $60 whereas the SR initially cost me $2500.

Also weren't you talking about using an safc? That's the real facepalm.

Lastly, do you ever shut up?

When I clearly support turbo the KA and also said it would last forever at some given conditions. What is it you think I would possibly say in response to this when I fully support KA turbo.

Kingtal0n

08-12-2018, 10:05 PM

Here are the only things I can say

1. the cost of KA has gone up, one is worth $300-$500 with 150,000 miles. KA with 20,000 miles is worth $500+
I too remember dropping one and giving one away free. But they are not that easy to come by anymore.

2. the cost of SR depends who/where you are like anything else. I knew somebody buying 52 of them at a time for $1200 each with a pile of parts leftover to build several more after doing it multiple time by going to Japan and buying the engines there himself.

So both KA and SR costs fluctuate widely, madly. This is merely an observation.

Kingtal0n

08-12-2018, 10:11 PM

I'd like to see this. Please include your Nostradamus predictions on when the KA will blow and how many hundreds of thousands of miles the SR will trek without any issues on the $75 ebay radiator.

The funny thing is, KA radiator is $89 and SR radiator is $75. I used the aluminum KA version which is more expensive in an LS swap and it works amazing now for 15,000 miles, and took all of the orange gunk out of the engine. Now I flush couple more times, trash the radiator and put another one because it worked fine in application. If I had an issue maybe I would have to upgrade but because it worked I can simply cycle through them if they get disgusting trash from the cooling system.

If I had built an engine instead of using junkyard motors, sure I could guarantee the rad would be fine and use a high quality unit with more capacity. This is an obvious purchase in that situation where an opportunity is presented. But using one of these in a junkyard swap would like instantly flicking a 'ruined' switch the minute that gunk fills the expensive radiator permanently disfiguring it.

FaLKoN240

08-13-2018, 08:56 AM

... "why do you care so much about what this guy does with his car?" is the better question.

You've posted over a dozen times like some sort of obsessed religious zealot trying to coax people to your side. Just let it go.

Kingtal0n

08-13-2018, 12:45 PM

Where does it say I recommend 1 specific pathway?

I never recommend a path. I Only show the paths. I've divulged every path simultaneously, their pros and cons.

It isn't "this car" it is for "all cars" searchable on the internet. This for every thread on every forum which pertains to these ideas with similar results.

Ex is above where he 'takes' the position of one engine (which could be a cat or bird but it happens to be an engine) and 'saying something' about it (either good or bad). While we are on the same side with respect to the engine. KA /cast piston engine doesn't blow because its a KA; it blows because of user error.

This entire thread is not asking which engine is best, it is asking more what is the level of the user. Not being able to distinguish compressor flow map significance or how to ruin an expensive radiator are automatically putting the user rating around average, 5/10. They need to learn how2read a compressor map and how to preserve the life of components in the cooling system for example. Probably many other details as well.

These users represent a majority (average is the average) which can benefit from additional knowledge and increase their problem solving ability if they learn to control anger on the internet and take an open minded approach to solving problems, especially through review. This further is enhanced/spread by silent readers which are 999/1000 of the users involved in such posts for which you might say is the target audience. Typical forum content of 50k views over half of those are the same users returning and may or may not be counted because programming in statistics is just as important as applying the statistics properly, ex. when entertainment is involved some readers are not interested in technical details. But this is a car forum where such details should be heralded and not scorned just because they are different. Being able to look back at previous thoughts and make realizations is permanence of able to work on a solution, so it is just as important for the silent readers who are able to observe the scenario and learn from others mistakes by seeing the whole picture at once.

To become a better problem solver. In order to solve a problem, you need to understand the question.

Here is a great question for exmaple. Why do I say SAFC is safe?
In the hands of a proper user level 9/10 out of 10, super mechanic, the SAFC is extremely safe because the mech in charge is aware of its short comings and will make up for them wherever necessary.

Ex1. SAFC + stock random engine
By general knowledge super mech knows maximum WOT timing for wide variety of OEM platform is perhaps 26-32* btdc in many applications.
He will check the timing on the dyno with a timing gun to be sure and compare rom tune files of the factory computer with his findings as well as internet searches to correlate the timing seen at the crank at WOT with the timing that is apparently called for in the ECU, thereby assuring with complete accuracy the actual crankshaft timing. By testing the engine at part throttle and verifying the crankshaft timing there as well with those areas of the factory timing map it further emphasizes his understanding of the ECU timing map in completeness. He knows with certainty that at 4" of Hg in the intake manifold for example that the computer adds 2* of timing to the WOT base.

Knowing that the SAFC will be removing engine mass flow rate in accordance with the larger injector installation he is now able to accurately determine real-world SAFC timing by multiplying injector correction that the SAFC makes into the original timing map. Also by knowing that he will want to start with low timing and add some later on the dyno he will naturally want to be extremely conservative, perhaps 10* of timing btdc at wide open throttle at 10-12psi of boost when it happens, although he anticipates that the ideal number will be around 13.

So lets say original timing was 24* and safc adds 2* at 6" of Hg which correlates to approx 30% flow rate reduction from the SAFC. That means he will have 26* of timing when he wanted 10*, so 16* needs to be removed. Well, this is impossible to pull 16* from the base timing as the engine will no longer run at idle. Luckily we do this kind of math in advance to find these issues beforehand. The engine either needs a rom tune to fix timing (SAFC is still required though) or some kind of reliable, affordable octane booster to make a higher timing value safe for around or less than the cost of a ROM tune. A perfect purchase would be one that is worth more than a ROM tune as a used part, and essentially take its place.

Enter methanol injection. The super mech knows a 50/50 mix into 93 base octane gasoline will give him something like 110+ which would make 17-19* btdc of timing safe in this application with just 10-12psi of boost. 17-19 from 26 is 7-9*, he makes 7* work and then dynos the vehicle to find within 6% of best torque at 19* total which allows the 7* retard at the distributor. Effectively controlling the timing with the SAFC only. After driving the car he noticed a significant loss of economy with the 7* pullback, so for daily driving he only uses 3* of removed timing and reduced boost pressure slightly to 7psi, and when he takes it to the track or lines up to race somebody he just moves the distributor to the "other mark" he made for those situations and runs nearly double the boost pressure.

One day he gains access to a combustion analyzer and finds that the engine makes best mean effective pressure at 23* of timing with 10psi of boost and 22* at 13psi of boost on 50/50 which further reinforces his dyno findings of within 6% of best torque, so a fairly wide safety margin is had with current 3 to 7 degrees of pullback (19*) even after all this time indicates consistency in operation and is backed up by plug condition and other significant observations made along the way.

9/10 though only