N/A to TT, why is it so frowned upon

[Selrift]

I do not understand why everyone says its so difficult to do an na to turbo on cars with turbo variants. You MUST SWAP the turbo motor in. Compression compression compression right.? wrong... Why is it so passed over to put the turbo internals and supporting equipment? If you are doing to swap and you don't tear into the new motor and refresh it or build it up, then I think you are asking for trouble so not needing to buy parts or tear a motor apart are not excuses. You were going to need to do a new harness either way, fuel pump as well. Drive train, if you plan on outputting significant power. Then there is also oil lines, which is a huge thing for everyone as to why just having the turbo swap. There are solutions and you don't have to be an engineer to do them. They have multiple ways for most applications to tap into pressure side and its not hard to set something up on your oil pan for returns, may need to make a trip to a local shop to get it fabricated up, but not impossible.

So I ask again why does it always have to be just swap the other motor when almost every part of the swap could be done without paying for a motor that should most likely be tore apart and rebuilt?

[Green Arrow]

If I had a z32, and had a (homemade or not) turbo kit and the vgtt motorset I would just swap in the motorset.
It’d prolly take the same time anyways.

Also the thread prolly won’t last, people tend to flame these....

[Selrift]

If I had a z32, and had a (homemade or not) turbo kit and the vgtt motorset I would just swap in the motorset.
It’d prolly take the same time anyways.

Also the thread prolly won’t last, people tend to flame these....

I know it will but I figure I could pick through a few good responses. I just see all these responses to people asking about turboing their n/a variant of a car(ie supras, 300zs, and so on) and everyone's response is just swap it it will be easier. I just never understood how so, again all the arguments are invalid if you have any idea what you are doing. I mean hell people turbo cars without turbo variants....I wonder what their secret is....hmmmm probably lowering compression, adding strength where needed, adding turbo bits, and tuning....so take away the need to tune and you would have the same formula just you are using proven parts.....also I do get that some blocks have additional oil squirters to improve oiling, they help but are not the one key component to having a reliable turbo'd car. Plenty of manufacturers have run turbo's without such a system.

[hanzbrady]

There's things that I can do for very cheap that others can do better and quicker for a higher cost.

For example I can build engines, quite well so I will never pay for someone else to assemble one for me.

On the other hand I have a basic grasp of machining and can create small parts but it takes me multiple tries and time, so I would obviously pay someone to machine my block because the fee is worth the convenience and end result.

With this in mind, wouldn't you say it's quite sensical to say "I could bolt a turbo to my KA (insert any NA engine here), custom fab parts, and spend my time which is worth a dollar amount to accomplish my goal of a turbocharged engine that makes more power, or I could invest a bit more money up front and install the factory turbo variant that literally bolts in (in the example an SR20) and be on my merry way.

I'm all for "built not bought" but converting NA variant to turbo is a pain and requires my time, money, tooling, and many other resources and sometimes it just pays to start with a better platform.

Price out going turbo on a NA 2JZ for example first off you HAVE to buy a standalone, the factory ECU can not be flashed that's $2,000 right off the bat, then add a turbo, an ignition system, a transmission to hold the power since the W58 won't hold it for sure and you're well over the cost of a 2JZGTE.

[anti tyler]

There's things that I can do for very cheap that others can do better and quicker for a higher cost.
time, money
Price


That about sums it up. You're asking why people do the things they do, and unfortunately the answer is up to those specific people.

I've always had KA engines, about 9 of them.

3 of which I turbo'd.


Had I been a Z guy, I would not have turbo'd an NA engine, there simply is not enough money and time flowing through my hands to do that. I also would not have had the time/money to afford 9 of those.


Also there is a major difference in building an engine, and replacing blown up parts on an engine. Half of the people doing engine refreshing are not going inside of it, as the either don't possess the knowledge to do so, or don't believe in themselves enough to do so unfortunately.

[Selrift]

I'm going to start with why do you have to flash the ecu, if you are importing the turbo variant stuff for the 2j, just bring in the turbos ecu. I am not saying custom fab parts I'm asking why that's your answer though. Why is it so difficult to understand, simply import parts.
To argue some people can't do it does not make sense either, they would pay someone to do the swap, at which point they are paying to have someone check a motor and do a bunch of work either way.

I don't see where z's seem so much more expensive to you, I just picked up a running driving z for less than I sold my 240 with a ruined trany, leaky fuel tank, and tower rot. What your problem with a z is rumors. Thus far parts and pricing my z is tons cheaper than my 240 was.

You kept bringing up situations where there isn't a turbo variant I brought that up to say it's stupid for people to say it's so difficult to turbo a car with a turbo variant because people turbo cars w.o turbo variants everyday.

Again I also say I think you are asking for trouble to stuff a motor in your car without having it gone through or going through it. Why not useven that time and money to strengthen your block. Like no one has ever been siting on the side of the road saying damn it I strengthened theodor to much, how am I going to get home.

[hanzbrady]

I'm going to start with why do you have to flash the ecu, if you are importing the turbo variant stuff for the 2j, just bring in the turbos ecu. I am not saying custom fab parts I'm asking why that's your answer though. Why is it so difficult to understand, simply import parts.
To argue some people can't do it does not make sense either, they would pay someone to do the swap, at which point they are paying to have someone check a motor and do a bunch of work either way.


Wait, are you suggesting to run a factory turbo ECU which will have a completely different pinout on a NA variant and expect the crank the key and be on your way?

You do realize that the NA and turbo variants have many differences usually one being compression points, this simply would not work.

Now to bring this example back to the 2JZ, lets say I have a non turbo IS300 and import the GTE turbos, wiring, and ECU I still have the issue that the GE engine has a distributor rather than coil on plug as well as other several differences.

What you're suggesting in this thread is a theory for saving money, but it fails in execution or else people would do it more. Even where you might me able to make things work you're costing yourself a headache and your time which is valuable.

I wholeheartedly hope that you sit down and crunch the numbers on a proper NAT build vs buying a VG30DETT and realise what you're actually saying.

[Selrift]

Wait, are you suggesting to run a factory turbo ECU which will have a completely different pinout on a NA variant and expect the crank the key and be on your way?

You do realize that the NA and turbo variants have many differences usually one being compression points, this simply would not work.

Now to bring this example back to the 2JZ, lets say I have a non turbo IS300 and import the GTE turbos, wiring, and ECU I still have the issue that the GE engine has a distributor rather than coil on plug as well as other several differences.

What you're suggesting in this thread is a theory for saving money, but it fails in execution or else people would do it more. Even where you might me able to make things work you're costing yourself a headache and your time which is valuable.

I wholeheartedly hope that you sit down and crunch the numbers on a proper NAT build vs buying a VG30DETT and realise what you're actually saying.

Now there is something I did not know about the two motors differences that matter, how ever I feel as though there are way around that as well. Yes it would be increasing the cost and no I'm not saying just jump into this without research and without weighing in costs.
I realize what into my actually saying thank you very much. I'm happy to remind you of that every step of the way if necessary.

Not every motor has differences so fundamental as that. Not everything is as impossible as everyone makes it out to be is my argument. Depending on availability and pricing which option is better suited for you.

I'm not proposing we build a gateway to hell or swim to the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean in one breath here.

Either way you skin the cat in this situation it will be expensive, I don't care how optimistic you are about it. Wiring harness, motor, motor parts, drive train, ecu and or tune, exhaust, etc etc etc.....and either way it's going to end a huge under taking. Based on everything but the coils and distributore is shut that is going to come into question at some point in the build anyways and if you are I'll equipped for it in either situation you should have bought the turbo variant. Which is not the discussion I'm looking to have.

[Selrift]

Also I want to add this in before anyone thinks I am being ignorant or trying to be ignorant, I am going to argue my point and I will also try to admit points that I did not know or think about.

Now up to his point I have not done a huge amount of research on the vg motors, I do not know all the differences between the two variants. I have done huge amounts of research on the 7mge and minus a few things that were not possible to change ie oil squirters, as far as I can remember atm there wasn't anything that made it impossible by any means. Like I said this isn't necessarily the case every time.

Also it depends on weather or not you plan on going for factory set up or for more as far as the ecu is concerned as far as I can tell. Remember full harness swap along with ecu and supporting parts. I'm still not seeing sure why you think this wrong. You aren't plugging away turbo ecu into an N/A you are plugging a turbo ecu into a turbo. I am not at any point saying drive an na motor on turbo ecu or and na motor with a turbo on it with a turbo ecu. What I'm talking about is not any different than the full turbo swap. I do not know why there was such a hang up on that, I'm talking internals externals just using an na block basically.

[Kingtal0n]

People do it all the time

Heres a stock N/A 6.0 turned up to 1000rwhp
http://www.lsxmag.com/news/sloppy-mechanics-1000-rwhp-05-colorado-goes-9-78-at-143-mph/

U just have tunnel vision, probably cause of poor aftermarket and OEM lingering support or something like that.

[stylZ32]

Currently running a stock Na block (193K miles) with turbos on my Z32 for 1 year now. All done out of my garage.