W00t aem ems and wideband in the mail, anyone want

[tastyratz]

hey guys im pumped! i just ordered the aem ems for my sohc ka-t project and a plx-m300 wideband o2 sensor with display and the bosch lm4.2 sensor :D best part? i paid 1880$ shipped for both!! I talked to jason over at forced-air performance for awhile and I think i mighta managed to get a nice cheap price for you guys locked in. i told him i think i knew several people (secretly my zilvian friends here) that might be interested in one. i know sykikchimp was interested in picking one up but theres probabbly more. he told me that hed work it out so he would give the same price to my friends if they mention my name!!! im not gonna blatently post my real name obviously on the forums and dont tell everyone else about this cuz i think he mighta though i meant only a few people but i wanted to share with you guys. pm me and ill give you my name and you can get the # off their website if you need it. you guys gave me a bunch so I said screw it and id give some back. anybody else running one of these? this is almost the end to me completing my boosted sohc project :) few more parts in the mail :D I cant wait!

[sykikchimp]

I already got my EMS in the car and running. Planning to get it tuned in the next couple days.

[tastyratz]

sweet man what did you end up paying for it? im pumped. i was thinking of getting a haltech e6x but id rather not have any wiring to. plug in and theres less room for error. lemme know how you like it and if it really feels like they say it does...

[CoasTek240]

WOW! i would love to see some eye candy. and some graphs after tuning charles!

[allmotorKA]

Will the AEM EMS allow you to use an MAP sensor instead of the stock MAF sensor?

[tastyratz]

yea it does, but a blowthrough maf with ait is more ideal on a street driven turbo car though...

[sykikchimp]

MAP sensors have higher resolution than MAF sensors, and should provide for better tunability, and drivability in any situation. I'm planning to run a GM 3 bar once I get all the rest of the turbo project together (cheaper than AEM's 3.5 bar). Actually, the S14 comes with both a MAP and MAF. With the EMS, you can just throw your stock MAF in the trash and run only on the stock MAP sensor.

You can do just about anything with this thing. :wackit:

Tuning is just for the stock engine with exhaust/intake for now. So it won't be real impressive. :-P And now they are telling me late next week. So hopefully I can get it tuned by Thurs/fri.

I got it at P1auto in SC for $1681. (I think that's right) Probably gonna add UEGO later. Most places won't sell for much less than that b/c AEM has pricing restrictions on the EMS.

[tastyratz]

yea see thats what i was getting when i called around i couldnt get a much cheaper price. i just called a bunch of places and had them all pricematch eachoother blue lol. this guy was gonna do somethin like a hair over 1600 but since i went with the plx at the same time he was able to give me it for like 1580 i think it came out as? somethin like that. that worked with some money off the plx and everything combined is how he gave me that awesome price. the plx uses the bosch 4.2 sensor that the ems uego does but its just slightly different. aem pro has calibrations for it in the software and if you go to a dyno you can get it calibrated perfectly to be 100% sure while your there. there is no sense paying as much as aem wants for their stupid sensor when you dont even get a gauge to display your a/f in front of you. why do you think iw as so excited :w00t: lol i busted my ass to get that price.

also, thats debatable sykik and ill have to disagree
although map sensors and maf sensors have their benefits on both sides, a maf sensor tends to have a higher acuracy when it comes down to it on a modified car. maf sensors also tend to be faster reacting. a map sensor also figures its calculations based on the engines estimated VE (volumentric efficiency) which when you do to a car what we do, that changes often. a map sensor is also less forgiving and your more likely going to have to get your car retuned more often vs a maf which when programmed right from the start can figure in a little leniency. Maf coupled with an ait seems to hold a higher acuracy in general in a street driven car because it knows the temp and amount of air going in vs just the general pressure. if you drive your car in a fairly consistant condition of temp/humidity then it doesnt make as much of a difference. for an all round street driven car that sees wild temperature changes my belief is maf is better. of course a stock maf is restrictive and i would recommend going over to a z maf or better. I will also be running both maf and map when the time comes but thats to control other aspects of engine control.

[sykikchimp]

indeed.. I believe my premise was incorrect. thanks for enlightening me..

check this info I found on a v8 site:

Speed Density
Speed Density systems accept input from sensors that measure engine speed (in rpm) and load (manifold vacuum in kPa), then the computer calculates airflow requirements by referring to a much larger (in comparison to an N Alpha system) preprogrammed lookup table, a map of thousands of values that equates to the engine’s volumetric efficiency (VE) under varying conditions of throttle position and engine speed. Engine rpm is provided via a tach signal, while vacuum is transmitted via an intake manifold-mounted Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor. Since air density changes with air temperature, an intake manifold-mounted sensor is also used.

Production-based Speed Density computers also utilize an oxygen (O2) sensor mounted in the exhaust tract. The computer looks at the air/fuel ratio from the O2 sensor and corrects the fuel delivery for any errors. This helps compensate for wear and tear and production variables. Other sensors on a typical Speed Density system usually include an idle-air control motor to help regulate idle speed, a throttle-position sensor that transmits the percentage of throttle opening, a coolant-temperature sensor, and a knock sensor as a final fail-safe that hears detonation so the computer can retard timing as needed.

Because a Speed Density system still has no sensors that directly measure engine airflow, all the fuel mapping points must be preprogrammed, so any significant change to the engine that alters its VE requires reprogramming the computer.


Mass Flow
By contrast, Mass Air Flow (MAF) systems use a sensor mounted in front of the throttle body that directly measures the amount of air inducted into the engine. The most common type of mass-flow sensor is the hot wire design: Air flows past a heated wire that’s part of a circuit that measures electrical current. Current flowing through the wire heats it to a temperature that is always held above the inlet air temperature by a fixed amount. Air flowing across the wire draws away some of the heat, so an increase in current flow is required to maintain its fixed temperature. The amount of current needed to heat the wire is proportional to the mass of air flowing across the wire. The mass-air meter also includes a temperature sensor that provides a correction for intake air temperature so the output signal is not affected by it.

The MAF sensor’s circuitry converts the current reading into a voltage signal for the computer, which in turn equates the voltage value to mass flow. Typical MAF systems also use additional sensors similar to those found in Speed Density systems. Once the electronic control module (ECM) knows the amount of air entering the engine, it looks at these other sensors to determine the engine’s current state of operation (idle, acceleration, cruise, deceleration, operating temperature, and so on), then refers to an electronic map to find the appropriate air/fuel ratio and select the fuel-injector pulse width required to match the input signals.

MAF systems are much more flexible in their ability to compensate for engine changes since they actually measure airflow instead of computing it based on preprogrammed assumptions. They are self-compensating for most reasonable upgrades, as well as extremely accurate under low-speed, part-throttle operation. On the other hand, the MAF meter, mounted as it is ahead of the throttle-body, can become an airflow restriction on high-horsepower engines. On nonstock engine retrofits or EFI conversions on engines never produced with fuel injection, it may be hard to package an MAF meter within the confines of the engine bay and available intake manifolding.

---So indeed they do both have their pluses and minuses. I will definately be looking more into MAF options.

-charles

[tastyratz]

not a problem, glad i could help :) you will still want the map sensor for boost readings if you want to do things like boost activated switches/ boost related traction control/ sensing boost so your ems can drive a solenoid for boost control/ etc. (i believe youll need a map for that but i may be mistaken)

[allmotorKA]

yea it does, but a blowthrough maf with ait is more ideal on a street driven turbo car though...

True, but I was thinking about how cool it would have been to have had this option 6 years ago when I put the ITBs on the E motor.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

The price you got was good, but not the best you could have done.

To leave the MAF in place would be a waste of what the AEM is capable of. The KA-T I did last May with AEM EMS has produced more HP at lower boosts then any other KA I know of. 305whp @ 10psi. This car is driven every day using MAP and IAT and has NO issues what so ever.

Pony up and get a 3bar and IAT. You would already have them if you had bought it from................

Ivan
www.phatka-t.com

[tastyratz]

you had room to drop over 100 off your listed price? i called prettymuch everyone for the thing... almost... as said before I mean you can make power off a map sensor also because stock maf is restrictive... if you run a less restrictive one such as a 300zx one and run it in a blowthrough setup like I will you wont get the map sensor as acurate for it... 305whp @10psi on what size and trim turbo? I ended up going with a tial 35mm matched to a t3/t4 with .48 a/r exhaust side and a 46 trim wheel and .50 compressor! can we say holy spool batman? im hoping and looking to have about 12lbs by around 2600 or so and keep it steady... as i was saying before both maf and map have their benefits. map is really good when you tune to it EXACTLY but to get things right everytime you to something that will slightly affect the VE like porting changes or however your gonna have to re-tune which can be an expensive pain. maf is more adaptive and leniant so it will cost alot less in the end...

[IvanAtSPRacing]

Advertising guidlines are really strict when it comes to the AEM so the price listed is what it is. I have been doing some specials for Nico, FA, 240sx Forums, and will for Zilvia also. You did get a great deal.

Honestly, your probably not going to notice a difference in drivablitiy between the MAF and MAP. Tuning a car versus MAF voltage will probably cost you more then tuning V MAP. Once you have tuned for the VE of the motor, you can use boost compensation to correct for any boost level. Its pretty trick.

I am currently using a GT32 turbo set up special for PK that spools incredibly quick and hits like a sledge hammer. 12psi @ 3400 rpms. This RPM range seems perfect for the KA. Having the ability to spool as early as you are looking for wil make steady highway cruising a problem. On the highway the RPMs will be well beyond your spool range and your BOV will surge open and closed. Any sort of light throttle will give you full boost and depending on how you tune the AEM V MAF, you might end up lean at partial throttle. My GVR4 had a small 16g and this happened all the time. It actually sucked to drive the car on the highway.

I dont mind a bit of lag. On the torquy KA, this is actually desireable and will keep the wheels from spinning so much. At 16psi on street tires at the track, I peddaled my way thru first gear and then half throttled my way half way thru second and then went WOT. Check out the 12.7 vid on the web page http://www.phatka-t.com/projectcars.htm and you can hear when I finally go WOT. If you listen close, you can hear the SSQV on the turbo TEG I am racing against.

Ivan
www.phatka-t.com

[luisgonz]

i got a d-JETRO works fine and running a boost controller kit making 468whp. i was thinking of buying the aem ems but i got the d-jetro for 1200.00$ from japan and got the software thats great we all at zilvia are making power them problems

[tastyratz]

theres no power fc for the kas luisgonz were talkin about tuning ka24-t setups...
ivan, the turbo I selected is still in the peak efficiency island pushing 35lbs which is what im looking for :-) and will nowhere near run out of steam with my power goals of 250-300whp. basically I know someone who gets 10lbs of boost on his sohc running a 57 trim compressor and ive got a 46 trim which will be much smaller. that matched to a .50 compressor housing boost lag should be non-existant. he also tunes with a safc and ive got the ems so if he can get 10lbs by 3k i should have no problem getting more boost by a lower rpm with proper tuning on a standalone and the same cam...

you were saying that it would be more expensive to tune... how much harder is it really to tune for maf? they already have pretty good base maps for the ems posted on the site I wonder how much tuning will really be necessary.... im a little bit off from getting this done and it doesnt have to be boosted right right now but im open to be educated and if its really that big, school me. the maf vs map thing isnt something ive done TOOONS of reading on I have really only done a moderate amount. I really wouldnt mind some good input on either arguments...