Do Japanese Cars Suck?

[2_Liter_Turbo]

What's your opinion on this? I personally think the Japanese have lost their way as well, which is why I stick with the 90's era cars.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4478/Japanese-Cars-Suck.aspx

[collegekid]

There is a lot one can speculate about it but I highly doubt any new resurgence coming ever again. I think I am slowly coming to terms with it when I still hold it dear to my heart that I want people driving sporty cars vs those useless ass hatchbacks small suvs (I see a lot of youngsters buying them when they dont do anything that warrants all that "utility").

Just buy up all the older sporty cars that you can afford to have and hold your head high.

[di-devol]

What's your opinion on this? I personally think the Japanese have lost their way as well, which is why I stick with the 90's era cars.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4478/Japanese-Cars-Suck.aspx

This is exactly what my dad said when I got my first 240. Not necessarily about Japanese cars, just the evolution of cars in general.

My son turns 16 this July, he could give fuck all about getting a car, let alone getting his driver's license. Times change.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

My son turns 16 this July, he could give fuck all about getting a car, let alone getting his driver's license. Times change.

I think this is the other half of the problem honestly. Automotive/motorsports enthusiasm is dying off very quickly. Everything is becoming so "instant gratification" and "doing what's trendy to get social media followers" that the true enthusiasts number's are growing smaller and smaller every day (as well as getting older and older). Kids these days are too stuck in their virtual worlds that they don't have the desire to experience anything that's actually real.

[spooled240]

I think this is the other half of the problem honestly. Automotive/motorsports enthusiasm is dying off very quickly. Everything is becoming so "instant gratification" and "doing what's trendy to get social media followers" that the true enthusiasts number's are growing smaller and smaller every day (as well as getting older and older). Kids these days are too stuck in their virtual worlds that they don't have the desire to experience anything that's actually real.

I don't think that has too much to do with it. American car companies are selling performance cars and kicking ass.

Japan just simply doesn't make anything exciting and halfway affordable anymore. They seemed to all hit a wall at around 300hp and kept making the cars bigger and heavier. Meanwhile Ford is making base models that come with 300+hp stock lol.

[RalliartRsX]

American car companies are selling performance cars and kicking ass.


The first comment x1009092. There is NOTHING that ticks 90% of the boxes like a ATS-V or a GT350, or a Hell cat, or SRT Challenger, or a Focus RS or a Ecoboost Mustang, etc. If I want a mundane hatchback with some power, grab a used Focus ST. If I want something the wife can drive and haul our kids, grab a ATS-V. If I want more utility, grab a SRT8. If I want ground stomping power, grab a Hellcat or Viper. If I want gas mileage, grab a Cruz.

I hate to say it, and this is from a die hard Japan guy (grew up around the early Evolution Of Tommy Makinen and STIs of McRae for instance, Silvias, everything all the flat brim boys fawn at, etc), but America is just producing a better product, simple. And they are actually fairly reliable, comfortable, are lookers and perform remarkably well against the German counterparts. If consumables weren't so high, I would be in a CTS-V right meow.

Japan just simply doesn't make anything exciting and halfway affordable anymore. They seemed to all hit a wall at around 300hp and kept making the cars bigger and heavier. Meanwhile Ford is making base models that come with 300+hp stock lol.[/

Japan has always has (atleast up until recently) a gentleman's cap @ 300HP. This has been in place for decades.

[Bnr32gtr]

I think we here in the USA have always and will always get the short in on import cars. If in 89 my s13 could have came factory equip with sr20 how do u think sells would have went for the corvette? Ford bought Mazda so they could stop production of the rx7 in the USA so it would not compete with mustangs sells.there a ton of cars that we don't get or don't get the real/right drive line because they don't want it to hurt our sells here in the USA. I'm a gm guy but if I was to buy a new car today that's in the 30k range I hate to say it would be a ford

[spooled240]

Japan has always has (atleast up until recently) a gentleman's cap @ 300HP. This has been in place for decades.

I don't think that's in effect anymore..or even needed with the lack of testicles 99% of Japanese cars come with anyway.

[Nissan2nr22]

All new nissan cars look like shit, i mean look at the new altima and maxima lol.

I wouldnt mine a new diesel titan tho

[FormulaDz92]

I don't think that has too much to do with it. American car companies are selling performance cars and kicking ass.

Japan just simply doesn't make anything exciting and halfway affordable anymore. They seemed to all hit a wall at around 300hp and kept making the cars bigger and heavier. Meanwhile Ford is making base models that come with 300+hp stock lol.

I'm not so sure about kicking ass sales wise but the american car companies Ford and Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/...Fiat in particular have been putting out a wide range of great vehicles at lower-than expected prices. The WRX and BRZ/FRS/86 are still great options from japan though. Options though aren't the problem.

The problem is current trends, marketing and instant gratification. I'm an early 20-something so a lot of my friends have been buying their first new car and it seems like everyone is gravitating towards these bland mini-crossovers such as that mini Honda CR-V thing. They buy these cars for no particular reason. They're rarely used for carrying hiking/athletic gear and aren't even out in the snow that much, hell a lot of them aren't even AWD. To sum up, it's very depressing to watch so many great cars be produced and see them neglected for tinny lifted econoboxes that offer no driving pleasure and an increased roll-over risk.

[feito]

All new nissan cars look like shit, i mean look at the new altima and maxima lol.

I wouldnt mine a new diesel titan tho
you would be basically getting a good powerplant (cummins, right?) only, because Im sure the rest of the truck is pure shit like the rest of its family.
I too am seriously disappointed at the quality of most of japan's main manufacturers. Most domestics too.
If I was to look into getting a brand new car (which I never will), I would look into kia/hyundai.

[VROOOM]

I think we here in the USA have always and will always get the short in on import cars. If in 89 my s13 could have came factory equip with sr20 how do u think sells would have went for the corvette? Ford bought Mazda so they could stop production of the rx7 in the USA so it would not compete with mustangs sells.there a ton of cars that we don't get or don't get the real/right drive line because they don't want it to hurt our sells here in the USA. I'm a gm guy but if I was to buy a new car today that's in the 30k range I hate to say it would be a ford

Trust me, the RX7 didnt take any sales away from the Mustang. the RX7 was twice as expensive as the Mustang.

1994 Mustang GT base price was $17,505
1994 RX7 base price was $36,500

[lunchmeat]

I haven't wanted anything from Japan since the late 90's. Just can't get excited about anything they're putting out now. So when the time comes for a newer car, it'll probably be a s550 mustang.

[Malik]

Its also about how creative you are, stock 240's are pretty lame. wheel fitment rules over everything.

I'll leave this pic here; modern nissans are still dope.

http://www.dpccars.com/gallery/var/resizes/Black-Widebody-Liberty-Walk-Nissan-GTR/Black%20Widebody%20Liberty%20Walk%20Nissan%20GTR%2 0-%2002.jpg

[2_Liter_Turbo]

^^^ Personally that doesn't do a thing for me. Don't get me wrong, they are very capable cars. They are monsters for the most part. But after doing extensive testing on one, I prefer my R32 over the R35 hands down. Sure it's slower, doesn't handle as well, and is generally an old tired Nissan, but I enjoy driving it way more than I did the R35, and I think it looks better. Just personal opinion there.

[lunchmeat]

Don't care for the r35. Yes, it's hatefully fast and all that, but it's a video game in car form. Now if Nissan cut half the computer crap out of it, gave it a 6 spd, and sold it for half what they want for it, then I might be interested in it.

As for that gtr, I don't care for scaffolding wings and over fenders look like ass.

[spooled240]

The 90's was the golden era of Japanese cars, but the early 00's were also great. IS300, s2k, ct9a, STi's, 350z's and miata's were very competitive, stylish and quality built.

I don't know what happened. Nissan has been making the same god damn Z for the past 8-9 years.

[S14kouki805]

Yeah Jap cars fell waaaaay off, I remember thinking I'd never buy a domestic but now I would definitely consider the new 5.0 if I were in the market for a new car.

The FR-S/BR-Z twins had so much potential but they screwed that all up with that weak ass engine. It didn't have to have an STi engine either, they could've gone with something along the lines of the WRX power levels and been golden. Then a higher HP variant (STi/TRD model). But nooooo, they say oh but so "balanced" yeah ok I get it but who the hell doesn't want more HP?

I worked for Toyota in the mid 2000's and the domestics were no competition at all. I remember thinking who in the hell would buy a Fusion/Malibu over a
Camry/Accord/Altima? Now they are about even or better.

The Japanese need to get their shit together fast. Infiniti and Acura are a fucking joke. Lexus is still nice even though they all look like a damn trout.

[S14kouki805]

Oh and the R35 GT-R, meh. Soulless computer, no manual (yeah, yeah, yeah but it shifts in .0000000001 milliseconds, IDGAF it's BORING!), and styling that says WTF were they thinking?!

And the ancient 370Z...don't get me started

[lunchmeat]

The gtr front looks like the last gen Celica.

[dorkidori_s13]

The 90's was the golden era of Japanese cars, but the early 00's were also great. IS300, s2k, ct9a, STi's, 350z's and miata's were very competitive, stylish and quality built.

I don't know what happened. Nissan has been making the same god damn Z for the past 8-9 years.


IS300 = 90s car (1998)
S2000 = 90s car (1999)
CT9A = developed in the late 90s, released in 01 (technically 2000 as the Lancer Cedia seeing as the Evo7 was developed on that chassis)
350z = developed in the late 90s, released in 02
Miata NA and NB = 90s cars, the NC was garbage and the ND isnt much better

just saying...

-----------------------------------------------

Japanese cars from the past 10 years....

GTR - fat, bloated, ugly and no manual option... WAY too much technology, makes owners think they can drive when they really cant!
Mazdaspeed 3 - damn fun FWD car... will probably sell my Protege5 to a 1st gen (I drove the piss out of my ex's 2010 2nd gen, was a BLAST)
Civic SI - meh, torquey as all hell... but is all around soft
370z - the 370z looks like shit (and has done since the 350z), car is amazingly stiff but its a chassis thats been around for 14 years now... its a dead horse
RX8 - handled and drove amazingly! IMO looked awesome, ABSOLUTELY GUTLESS!!!
Evolution 10 - would give my left nut to own one... potential wasnt realized until a few years after is release. absolutely gorgeous car! a little soft, but can be easily fixed with coilovers
STI - god awful looking now. GR platform really came into its own toward the end of its lifespan.
FRS/BRZ - do not buy unless youre 22... also, GUTLESS!!!
NSX - way too much technology (again, like GTR), first of the new wave of hybrid based JDM super cars... also, auto only!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand last but not least, though not Japanese made...

Mustang Ecoboost - THE NEW SILVIA!!! GET OVER IT!!!

[hatch4life]

This is depressing

[dorkidori_s13]

not really... cars go thru periods of shit and periods of awesome. right now the american manufacturers are kicking ass, but they havent been able to do squat for decades! im sure the japanese will come back in 10-20 years.

but then again, in 10-20 years everything will be hybrid, automatic and probably MOSTLY self driven... so wait, i retract that remark lol

[lunchmeat]

Domestics were king in the 60s. And then went to utter shit in the 70s, and continued to be shit till the 90s, where they were slightly less shitty.

[hatch4life]

automatic and probably MOSTLY self driven... so wait, i retract that remark lol
lmao right? even now I can only think of a few modern day sports cars I would like to own, foreign or domestic and none of them give me the feeling 90's jap cars do

[Standard]

What a great new topic that hasn't been discussed at all, I mean I guess there's that thread in off topic that has been around for almost a decade LOL

Honestly, it's just a bunch of opinions. I own a Chevy trailblazer, I love it, and It's about to roll over 300k. I do like GM, Ford and Chrysler, no! In my opinion, Toyota's are the most dependable and well engineered cars on the road. Don't get me wrong though I like Nissan's/Infiniti's as I've owned them primarily. And the R35 and Z34 are beautiful in my eyes :)

[Malik]

^ the voice of reason... and yes there's already a future rwd thread.

[ixfxi]

IS300 = 90s car (1998)
S2000 = 90s car (1999)
CT9A = developed in the late 90s, released in 01 (technically 2000 as the Lancer Cedia seeing as the Evo7 was developed on that chassis)
350z = developed in the late 90s, released in 02
Miata NA and NB = 90s cars, the NC was garbage and the ND isnt much better

just saying...

-----------------------------------------------

Japanese cars from the past 10 years....

GTR - fat, bloated, ugly and no manual option... WAY too much technology, makes owners think they can drive when they really cant!
Mazdaspeed 3 - damn fun FWD car... will probably sell my Protege5 to a 1st gen (I drove the piss out of my ex's 2010 2nd gen, was a BLAST)
Civic SI - meh, torquey as all hell... but is all around soft
370z - the 370z looks like shit (and has done since the 350z), car is amazingly stiff but its a chassis thats been around for 14 years now... its a dead horse
RX8 - handled and drove amazingly! IMO looked awesome, ABSOLUTELY GUTLESS!!!
Evolution 10 - would give my left nut to own one... potential wasnt realized until a few years after is release. absolutely gorgeous car! a little soft, but can be easily fixed with coilovers
STI - god awful looking now. GR platform really came into its own toward the end of its lifespan.
FRS/BRZ - do not buy unless youre 22... also, GUTLESS!!!
NSX - way too much technology (again, like GTR), first of the new wave of hybrid based JDM super cars... also, auto only!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand last but not least, though not Japanese made...

Mustang Ecoboost - THE NEW SILVIA!!! GET OVER IT!!!

you're a bit on crack....

r35 is a fast car because its a fast car. looks nice too. would prefer a MT but thats obviously not an option

370z looks nice and is a complete improvement over the 350z in every way. tired design though, nissan needs to move forward with a successor already

rx8 is a turd. talk about ugly. never to be considered a successor to the FD. unacceptable.

evo 10. who would in their right mind would ever want to own a mitsubishi. 7-9 were the only cars of interest, the rest is all dog shit.

the 86 and ND miatas ARE the best budget sports cars to come out of japan recently. worth every dollar.

as for the NSX, the new design goes with the etymology behind its name: New Sportscar eXperimental. there is no reason why the car should be anything pure or light-weight. honda had the power to do whatever they felt would speak for the brand. i dont care for the new vehicle for the same reasons as you, but i wont knock them for doing what they did.

as for the new mustang, i dont get it. car looks nice from the exterior, but i cant manage to sit in the interior of a new mustang OR camaro without wanting to throw up. its a really shitty driving environment.

[lunchmeat]

What's with the mustang and camaro interiors? Haven't put my ass in a new stang yet, but sitting in a camaro feels like I'm stuck in a WWII era pillbox.

[dizzariot]

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

[FormulaDz92]

What's with the mustang and camaro interiors? Haven't put my ass in a new stang yet, but sitting in a camaro feels like I'm stuck in a WWII era pillbox.

S550 Mustang is not like that at all, the visibility is pretty good in it. It is about the same as a 2G Eclipse. Also the interior quality is pretty good and the seats are fantastic for spirited driving. (and this is the base model EB we're talking about)

[spooled240]

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

When my mom's astro van pulled on my stock s14 I knew something needed to change. Life's too short to drive slow cars.

[[240sx]]

When my mom's astro van pulled on my stock s14 I knew something needed to change.
😂 Holy hell, this x10000000!!

Sent from my SM-G930P

[LockOn!]

80's and 90's Japanese cars were great because we were at the perfect crossroads of power production, and weight. Safety has regulated weight into oblivion, and emissions standards have steered engine tech in a different direction.


Also, you guys are forgetting the economy in Japan was going nuts in the 80s and has been in decline since the 90s. People just aren't buying the sporty shit anymore.


Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

[dorkidori_s13]

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

uh, doods say the ZN6 is slow because... THE ZN6 IS SLOW!!!

Lets use your example along with a few modern market vehicles too...

S13 Silvia Ks/180sx TypeII/TypeX/TypeR - 210hp/205tq
Sileighty - 225hp/215tq
S14 Silvia Ks - 230hp/218tq
S15 Silvia Spec R - 250hp/238tq
Genny Coupe 2.0 1st gen - 210hp/208tq
Genny Coupe 2.0 2nd gen - 274hp/275tq
Mustang Ecoboost - 310hp/320hp
IS200t FSport - 241hp/240tq~

So... what am I missing here given the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ are price within the same range of ALL those cars (90s cars pricing adjusted for inflation would be around $26,000-$28,000 in current moneys).

Ive made this argument before, and ill pose it again... there is NO reason the FRS/86/BRZ should only be offered with an N/A motor only! 250-265hp turbo model should have been offered for what the cost of the car is AND what the competition is offering for the SAME PRICE. Ford AND Chevy offer the Mustang and Camaro in horese power levels for ALL ranges of buyers instead of what the Japanese do and say "you get one motor, thats it!"

[Mintyboy]

80's and 90's Japanese cars were great because we were at the perfect crossroads of power production, and weight. Safety has regulated weight into oblivion, and emissions standards and steered engine tech in a different direction.


Also, you guys are forgetting the economy in Japan was going nuts in the 80s and has been in decline since the 90s. People just aren't buying the sporty shit anymore.


Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

This worries me because I can see the transition slowly happening.

[spooled240]

Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

Cars that are not self-driven may even be illegal to drive someday. They'll be deemed dangerous and inferior to cars that are controlled by a computer. What a sad day that will be. That's when I'll move to a 2nd world country and retire with my old cars.

[drewc]

I think as far as performance goes, european cars are the way to go right now. I have been patiently waiting for a new s2000 or 240sx for the last couple of years. But sadly I do not think it will happen.

[Davizz]

Its also about how creative you are, stock 240's are pretty lame. wheel fitment rules over everything.

I'll leave this pic here; modern nissans are still dope.

http://www.dpccars.com/gallery/var/resizes/Black-Widebody-Liberty-Walk-Nissan-GTR/Black%20Widebody%20Liberty%20Walk%20Nissan%20GTR%2 0-%2002.jpg



Yeah about that,

R35 is a good looking car with high performance, but:
- no Skyline (wtf not?)
- take a good look at what the prices (new) are doing atm (for starters, the prices on a GTR 3years ago and now) ridiculous how the prices went through the roof[emoji33]

As everyone said, Japan lost they're ambition of making great spec'd, affortable timeless models.
No idea where it went, but Toyota made a well comback (GT86) to start with.

[LockOn!]

Cars that are not self-driven may even be illegal to drive someday. They'll be deemed dangerous and inferior to cars that are controlled by a computer. What a sad day that will be. That's when I'll move to a 2nd world country and retire with my old cars.


I hope this won't be in my life time but it's entirely possible. I think there is an ethical question about a person controlling their fate in an emergency situation versus the human themselves, so legislation as well as our votes when we are crotchety and old may really really slow down the process. Murcan's don't take to kindly to the Gubme't taking our riiaghts.


Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.


Let that shit sink in for a minute.

[dorkidori_s13]

Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.

depressing statement is depressing...

[spooled240]

I hope this won't be in my life time but it's entirely possible. I think there is an ethical question about a person controlling their fate in an emergency situation versus the human themselves, so legislation as well as our votes when we are crotchety and old may really really slow down the process. Murcan's don't take to kindly to the Gubme't taking our riiaghts.


Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.


Let that shit sink in for a minute.

I think by the time all cars are self-driving the main roadways would be overhauled to work in sync with these self-driving cars. It would be like a virtual rail system so "driving" will be similar to taking a train. You punch in your destination and sit back. By that time, AI would not only control cars, but the majority of human life. Skynet would then begin to be self aware begin to control these cars eliminate people against their own self interests. Then there will be a few old people that would actually know how to drive a car manually and be able to save the world.

[lunchmeat]

Just waiting for the day when cars are so full of tech, they gain sentience, rebel against us meat sacks, and reenact Maximum Overdrive.

[R3b]

When I was driving back from my machinist my dad made a comment on the lines of

"You will probably be the last generation that actually gets to do this" aka build/assembly an engine and a car from the ground up.

I took it with a grain of salt but I could see once Ecars and self driving being a thing in the next 20 years easy that no one will mess with combustion and manual anymore. What we have will be a niche hobby sorta how after digital cameras came and film died out. Film is amazing and has its place but you cant beat how commercialized and obsolete it is compared to digital photography.

Im kinda happy its heading down this root, maybe in the next 50 years we will have gundams or a new motorsport like immortal grand prix.

[LockOn!]

What we have will be a niche hobby sorta how after digital cameras came and film died out. Film is amazing and has its place but you cant beat how commercialized and obsolete it is compared to digital photography.





Yeah, we like to argue about how "lame" electric cars are, when In all actualilty they kick the teeth of our 20 year old shit boxs right to the back of their skulls. Instant torque, power vectoring for steering, hybrid power storing, its pretty fucking laughable.

If they could just style one the didn't look like a fucking suppository from outer space auto enthusiast's might start buying in.

Seriously, all electic M2,3,4,5 would be savaaaage

[jedi03]

kids that only want their virtual worlds and not one they control are causing a lot of this change...along with inflation and regulations too..

[Ilya]

Do you think it was a fear tactic that drove the mass population to buy shitty safe cars?
- law that requites all cars to have airbags(you are likely to die from an airbag or from the firefighters not being able to cut you out of a car in time due to one of the airbags not going off)

- law that requires all cars to have abs (because every American drives on ice and wet roads every day and they need to be able to stop on ice from 70mph -0mph safely....here is an idea, don't drive like an idiot in hazardous conditions)

- law that requires all cars to have vehicle stability control (it's not a matter of if, but when the Toyota Corolla will lose control, you need computers to keep you safe)

- law that requires trunks to have release hinges (because every person at least once in their life will be abducted via trunk)

I don't know how a s13 got away with no airbags, no abs, no stability control, no lsd...

[Ilya]

You add all the bullshit regulation that got passed without public knowledge, and I understand why we get the shitboxes that are standing in the dealership parking lots.

[Jefro240]

Ive made this argument before, and ill pose it again... there is NO reason the FRS/86/BRZ should only be offered with an N/A motor only! 250-265hp turbo model should have been offered for what the cost of the car is AND what the competition is offering for the SAME PRICE. Ford AND Chevy offer the Mustang and Camaro in horese power levels for ALL ranges of buyers instead of what the Japanese do and say "you get one motor, thats it!"

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

[spooled240]

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

I think a loaded S15 spec R was in the 40k range in today's dollars, so I'd expect it to be around there.

[DaiGurren]

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

^ Agreed. Plus ZN6's are fun to drive, they're everything a 240SX was back in the day a fun affordable 2 door. Plus there's so much aftermarket support for them. :2f2f:

P.S. drive one guys they're fun, I almost bought one for a daily but ended up with a GS300

[LockOn!]

2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere...



Never going to happen. Abandon all hope. They will never allow that car cannibalize WRX / STI sales. Like it or not, those chassis sell at a way higher volume and I assume are cheaper to produce because of economies of scale. Ergo, why sell a car that costs more to produce then its power equivalent counterpart, which also sells at a lower volume. It makes no sense.


This topic has been beat to death on Ziliva. The reality is we are a bunch of man children interested in fanboi mobiles from decades past. We are not the target demo. Car makers appeal to people who actually have disposable income. Not project car d00ds who may or may not get their hands on one 5 to 10 years down the line.



P.S. drive one guys they're fun, I almost bought one for a daily but ended up with a GS300

This exactly, you're an enthusiast, and even you chose a more practical option. Frankly I drove one, and though it was a slow as shit rattle box. Literally everything already sounded like a decade old Honda. The chassis was EXCELLENT though, I'd love to own one once they get around 5kish for a trackmobile. As a daily, not my flavor.

OOOH also those seats. ZN6 seats / drivers position kicks ass.

[R3b]

Yeah, we like to argue about how "lame" electric cars are, when In all actualilty they kick the teeth of our 20 year old shit boxs right to the back of their skulls. Instant torque, power vectoring for steering, hybrid power storing, its pretty fucking laughable.

If they could just style one the didn't look like a fucking suppository from outer space auto enthusiast's might start buying in.

Seriously, all electic M2,3,4,5 would be savaaaage

My cousin works for tesla, I kinda want to pitch him the idea for them to join FD with a RWD roadster. Just super gutted and with all there R&D they could make some serious car. He knows some pretty well known higher ups. Just 600hp all electric and torque up the ass it will give a lot of the cars a run for there money.

[dizzariot]

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

There were a lot of comments since I last hopped on, but I'll reply with your quote.

We're talking about sporty cars AS WELL AS the 'boring trends' of automakers today. You have your answer here: they rated the FRS at 200HP...but they also won't turbo it for 'Toyota reasons'. You guys act flabbergasted but it makes perfect sense in my mind.

I'm not arguing the lack of power when compared to TURBO CARS. I'm talking about the car in it's own right. It's a great package off the lot and if you can't have fun in a stock one you're either having a midlife crisis or your cock is super small. I don't recall any rattles in mine. Once I had it lowered and on some nice wheels/tires it was even better. The only thing that sucks? The community...and I say that as an avid part of the Zilvia community lol.

Just apply USDM S-Chassis logic to the FRS:

1.) Buy it stock
2.) Say the lack of power doesn't bother you
3.) Cave and finally SR swap it (in this case turbo kit, GReddy is CARB legal)

The same logic applies. I'm honestly disheartened that I sold mine. It would've been awesome by now. I'm in fucking Japan and That car is still on my shortlist of cars to own.

[e1_griego]

I think a header and tune fixes up about 75% of the complaints.

The community isn't great, but there are enough people who are building semi-serious track/autox cars that there are some decent parts getting developed and ok knowledge sharing.

Mine rattles a bit but that's after I've added poly inserts everywhere and stiffer motor mounts.

Most people are playing playskool my first sports car with their zn6 so there's tons of cringe and doing it wrong.

As far as the rest of the article, it's spot on.

[Malik]

I cant agree with this thread.

its up to the owners to decide what to do with their cars.

If you're creative enough and you understand tasteful mods: modern cars can be just as attractive as cars from the 90's.

[dizzariot]

I think a header and tune fixes up about 75% of the complaints.

The community isn't great, but there are enough people who are building semi-serious track/autox cars that there are some decent parts getting developed and ok knowledge sharing.

Mine rattles a bit but that's after I've added poly inserts everywhere and stiffer motor mounts.

Most people are playing playskool my first sports car with their zn6 so there's tons of cringe and doing it wrong.

As far as the rest of the article, it's spot on.

I went with the turbo metaphor because the complaint always seems to revolve around forced induction.

I was on the verge of headers/OFT when I ultimately decided to pull the plug and start out.

The majority of dudes bitching about the ZN6 wouldn't be happy with 240WHP. Everything is excess nowadays.

There are so many idiots here buying GTRs, Supras, and Chasers. The first two are normally the only two Japanese cars these guys have ever heard of. The last one is the 'new cool thing' on base. Plenty of people are touching 800HP+ but when asked why they always say "just to have it." Excess. Same shit with the ZN6. How many horses can you really use before you're eating shit or getting multiple tickets.

[dizzariot]

I cant agree with this thread.

its up to the owners to decide what to do with their cars.

If you're creative enough and you understand tasteful mods: modern cars can be just as attractive as cars from the 90's.

...no offense but this is typical of a guy that posted a RocketBunny R35 lol.

Just giving you a hard time.

[lunchmeat]

My biggest beef with the 86 is the cup holder location and lack of an arm rest. Yea, I'm a nitpicky bastard.

[Malik]

...no offense but this is typical of a guy that posted a RocketBunny R35 lol.

Just giving you a hard time.

its all good bro, its just the internet

[S14kouki805]

Just apply USDM S-Chassis logic to the FRS:

1.) Buy it stock
2.) Say the lack of power doesn't bother you
3.) Cave and finally SR swap it (in this case turbo kit, GReddy is CARB legal)

The same logic applies. I'm honestly disheartened that I sold mine. It would've been awesome by now. I'm in fucking Japan and That car is still on my shortlist of cars to own.

It was said before that the FRS is the next 240, I makes perfect sense considering an S14 was priced at the price point of the FRS l, adjusted for inflation.

[dizzariot]

It was said before that the FRS is the next 240, I makes perfect sense considering an S14 was priced at the price point of the FRS l, adjusted for inflation.

This is common knowledge to me. That's my point: people always compare the ZN6 to turbo'd cars.

If you and I get it I don't know why everyone is still bitching.

[zenkicpe]

its all good bro, its just the internet

You two guys give me hope :kiss:

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I think a header and tune fixes up about 75% of the complaints.

The community isn't great, but there are enough people who are building semi-serious track/autox cars that there are some decent parts getting developed and ok knowledge sharing.

Mine rattles a bit but that's after I've added poly inserts everywhere and stiffer motor mounts.

Most people are playing playskool my first sports car with their zn6 so there's tons of cringe and doing it wrong.

As far as the rest of the article, it's spot on.

All I see down here in AZ are hoards of those "playing playskool my first sports car" kids, it sucks. Luckily, with literally millions of people in the area, there are enough actual knowledgeable car guys in the area that I'm not alone, ha ha. I've found that the local R32 and G20 groups are the most down to earth crowd when it comes to single chassis ownership. A handful of good S Chassis dudes, but the rest are the typical kids. There's like 2 or 3 good ZN6 dudes, ha ha.

[e1_griego]

That's every <25 'car guy' right now, though. The people buying r32s and g20s are old.

There is a good group of 86 guys around here who do track days, etc., but it's <5% of the owners. Tons and tons of them at autocross nationally (also not <25 kids) so that helps.

Really it's a matter of being into a specific car or marque vs. being into cars generally. Not a lot of 'car guys' left, period.

But why would there be? As we've determined, all the new japanese cars suck, and the old stuff is either all ruined (s13s, older civics) or way too expensive to get into (FD, mkIV supra, etc).

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Very true. Although a good number of the G20 guys are mid 20's, but they all hang out with older dudes like myself, so they learn, ha ha. The G20 guys are the ones who go karting too, which is funny.

[Dolph_KYAS13]

Do you think it was a fear tactic that drove the mass population to buy shitty safe cars?
- law that requites all cars to have airbags(you are likely to die from an airbag or from the firefighters not being able to cut you out of a car in time due to one of the airbags not going off)

- law that requires all cars to have abs (because every American drives on ice and wet roads every day and they need to be able to stop on ice from 70mph -0mph safely....here is an idea, don't drive like an idiot in hazardous conditions)

- law that requires all cars to have vehicle stability control (it's not a matter of if, but when the Toyota Corolla will lose control, you need computers to keep you safe)

- law that requires trunks to have release hinges (because every person at least once in their life will be abducted via trunk)

I don't know how a s13 got away with no airbags, no abs, no stability control, no lsd...

lets not forget mandated reverse cameras. because people need a tv to reverse these days....:facepalm:

[FormulaDz92]

A quick summary of this thread so far;

Japanese Cars Suck -> No they don't -> Yes they do american cars are better -> All new cars suck -> Electric Cars Suck -> Self-driving Electric cars suck even more -> Electric self-drivers will take over the world -> The ZN6 isn't that bad though. Haha what a funny thread to browse.:facepalm:

[e1_griego]

Hi, welcome to forums.

[FormulaDz92]

Hello.

I just wanted to add that while boring electric cars will likely take over the world, boring cars are already everywhere and have been for a while. Self drivers will cause the real problem because they will eventually lead to government mandated zones where you will not be allowed to have control of your own car for 'safety reasons'. This will lead to self-drivers being the only available option with non-self-drivers being too much to insure and that will be the end of nearly all car culture. Motorcycle culture will be one of the last to go. I give this all about 40 years to go down.

[JrDarknes]

I went with the turbo metaphor because the complaint always seems to revolve around forced induction.

The majority of dudes bitching about the ZN6 wouldn't be happy with 240WHP. Everything is excess nowadays.

There are so many idiots here buying GTRs, Supras, and Chasers. The first two are normally the only two Japanese cars these guys have ever heard of. The last one is the 'new cool thing' on base. Plenty of people are touching 800HP+ but when asked why they always say "just to have it." Excess. Same shit with the ZN6. How many horses can you really use before you're eating shit or getting multiple tickets.

+1, I Agree.

Its funny, people want more horsepower for it but I see plenty of people my age wrecking the shit with the 200 it comes with.

[Highway Riding]

I have to say the new generation of Japanese cars should impress. We have boosted Nissans, Infinities, Honda's and Subbies etc.. What is not to like? Once these cars drop in price over the years the tuning market will just grow!

[Malik]

here's a nice infiniti... just an example of a modern car done right.

its all about how creative and passionate you are.

http://wallpapercave.com/wp/3ieF7Wz.jpg

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I had a G35 Coupe 6MT Sport. While it looked good, I sold it within a year, because it didn't excite me enough to keep making payments on it. It was heavy, it didn't handle like how I would've liked, and if you put test pipes on them, they sound like dog shit.

[e1_griego]

Every car being discussed and reminisced about here was an involved driving experience. A stancy g35 has nothing to do with that.

[Malik]

I give up on this thread.

[e1_griego]

The original post is from Mike Kojima and posted on motoiq....

[Ilya]

Do Japanese car manufacturers go to the same guy to get their oem wheel design? Because I cannot believe that multiple companies can make such ugly wheels.

[ixfxi]

I dont understand the reason for the article, let alone the purpose of this thread.

I have nothing against Mike Kojima, but after reading that article he's sound like an old cry baby thats bitching about the past. I'm not as old as Mike (but close enough), and I love a lot of the older cars he mentioned in his article. But whats the fucking point? Are we supposed to praise the tin-can-cars of yesterday? Are manufacturers supposed to stick to a formula of cheap-and-good... forever? Car manufacturers progress and they need to cater to the masses. Meanwhile, they need to comply with the shit ton of newly proposed regulations.

So kiss your 2000lb Sentra SE-R out the fucking window, because our government isnt having it.

The new Miata and the 86 are the closest thing to cheap and good thats being offered, and guess what... they're not profiting hand over fist over it. They sell a few thousand and life goes on.

[e1_griego]

But nostalgia is fun!

There's a guy on seattle CL asking $8k for a b13 SE-R right now lol.

[Malik]

this thread does sound like a giant whining rant.

[Ilya]

this thread does sound like a giant whining rant.

'Tiss true that car manufacturers listen to the public opinion as much as the US government does to the presidential votes.

[collegekid]

By that time, AI would not only control cars, but the majority of human life. Skynet would then begin to be self aware begin to control these cars eliminate people against their own self interests.

[Begin sarcasm]
Hey man, we humans need to stop doing all the menial shit and focus on more beneficial and creative work. Once robots start doing all the hard work, then we will get a nice universal income that will totally pay MORE than what we get now, since my my special snowflake life is worth so much to the government.

We also shouldn't ever have opinions that are contrary to what the government tells us to think, you wouldn't want to be like those tinfoil hat wearing psychos who are always wrong and don't know what they're talking about.

[End sarcasm]

[RalliartRsX]

The new Miata and the 86 are the closest thing to cheap and good thats being offered, and guess what... they're not profiting hand over fist over it. They sell a few thousand and life goes on.

The Miata sold it's 1,000,000th Miata April 22nd 2016. Yeah, not making a profit, but damn! Best selling roadster of all time by far :hsdance:

[spooled240]

I went with the turbo metaphor because the complaint always seems to revolve around forced induction.

I was on the verge of headers/OFT when I ultimately decided to pull the plug and start out.

The majority of dudes bitching about the ZN6 wouldn't be happy with 240WHP. Everything is excess nowadays.

There are so many idiots here buying GTRs, Supras, and Chasers. The first two are normally the only two Japanese cars these guys have ever heard of. The last one is the 'new cool thing' on base. Plenty of people are touching 800HP+ but when asked why they always say "just to have it." Excess. Same shit with the ZN6. How many horses can you really use before you're eating shit or getting multiple tickets.

Ehh, I don't think it's so much how much horsepower the car would have, but more so the fact that it would have had forced induction stock. Hell, it could have had 20 more horsepower but with a quick spooling turbo that gave it 200 ft lbs of torque and the car would have been that much more exciting and marketable. There's nothing wrong with having a n/a base model zn6, but I think they could have made the car more appealing if they had offered a version with more hp/tq...especially since subaru already has blueprints of turbo boxers from their wrx/sti lineup. Most people that buy turbo cars just leave it stock and if they do mod it, they just do bolt ons and turbo charms like BOV's and turbo timers. They just like the fact that it's turbo even if it's just a bit faster than stock.

[LockOn!]

^^^

The thing is, throwing a bunch of bolt-ons on a factory NA car nets you basically fuck all in terms of power. Sure you can increase response and change the curve a bit, but really all you end up doing is making the thing louder.

Toss the same basic bolt-ons on a factory turbo car and you'll actually see measurable gains.

Even if the ZN6 had a little more power, say 225, your ceiling with bolt ons would still be only like 15ish hp higher if we're being realistic.

I'd much rather have a factory turbo pushing just around 200, which I could throw some big pipes on and some sort of re-flash tune to get to mid 200's. Plus turbo noises are sweet.

IMO between 250 and 300 is the butter zone for fun and reliability seeing as you can keep the engine relatively stock given you chose a correct platform. Last few cars I tracked were:

1J Cressida ~280
HR 350z ~280
RB25 s14 ~240

~200hp is too low for NA. If I need to add FI, or crack the block/head open to make any real power, I'm just not interested. Too much work for my ass and it's more prone to catastrophic failure.




On topic now: Yes. All cars suck.

[S14kouki805]

[Begin sarcasm]
Hey man, we humans need to stop doing all the menial shit and focus on more beneficial and creative work. Once robots start doing all the hard work, then we will get a nice universal income that will totally pay MORE than what we get now, since my my special snowflake life is worth so much to the government.

We also shouldn't ever have opinions that are contrary to what the government tells us to think, you wouldn't want to be like those tinfoil hat wearing psychos who are always wrong and don't know what they're talking about.

[End sarcasm]

Wait did you just try to make this political?

Take that shit to Facebook where it belongs :picardfp:

[collegekid]

Wait did you just try to make this political?

Take that shit to Facebook where it belongs :picardfp:

First statement was in reference to autonomous anything. Second statement was a little more political but the point was more to show how people will just accept things as how they are and not do shit to change it besides whine about it(kinda like this thread)

It's not just Zilvia, many car forums/enthusiasts have just turned into "politicians" speculating topics such as
-young/new owners of a chassis vs OGs
-Millenials
-prices of anything and everything
-Carlos Ghosn

[FormulaDz92]

Here's a peak of the possible future.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/7/14841324/airbus-concept-car-drone-train-geneva-motor-show

I realize this is conceptual but I think it illustrates the direction in which the industry is going and what those industry leaders think people want or should have. The post-industrialized world will look very different is another 20 or 30 years I think.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Here's a peak of the possible future.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/7/14841324/airbus-concept-car-drone-train-geneva-motor-show

I realize this is conceptual but I think it illustrates the direction in which the industry is going and what those industry leaders think people want or should have. The post-industrialized world will look very different is another 20 or 30 years I think.

No thank you! That is not a future that I'd be compatible with...

[jared420sx]

I do valet. I drive EVERYTHING. Top to bottom. Maserati and porsche to camrys and civics.
New cars are lacking raw driving expoerence. Regulations safety codes blah blah blah.
A 500hp rs7 feels boring and unexciting. The muscle cars are better because of their tq but still not that great. Only thing that has put a smile on my face was the new X6 M bmw �� That thing made me shit my pants lol. Japanese cars do suck though lol. Im getting a e46M soon. But all the older cars are gonna be better just based of the fact that theyre 2800lbs soaking wet lol. Oh and while i'm here this one for my friend phil. Fuck every 2015 plus subaru owner.

[jared420sx]

Oh and electric cars will be here sooner than later get ready. Teslas are heavy but those things RIP. As soon as they figure out how to make them lighter those will be awesome.

[rJZx]

^Doesn't mean shit if you're just parking the cars bro

[feito]

^your comment doesn't mean shit. GTFOH