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View Full Version : Lifter tap vs rod knock vid inside.

rc1honda
03-09-2017, 07:13 PM
https://youtu.be/egKr3Ibbrwc

UPDATE CRAZY CANSHAFT WEAR PATTERN BELOW any ideas welcome

http://imgur.com/zsldxAM

Have loud tapping coming from my newly swapped short block

Have bled the lifters twice now not sure what going on.

Car runs awesome. Power everywhere. Just loud tap. Follows the revs throughout the range.

No change in sound with spark plugs unplugged

S13 SR
.20 over
Cp pistions
Eagle rods

Hydro lifters
Hks 264 step 2
BC springs and retainers

Have the VC off now any ideas are welcome
jedi03
03-09-2017, 07:43 PM
Check for the spacers between the rocker and valve
derass
03-09-2017, 08:19 PM
Video's not working. Could it be piston-slap from the new forged units?
rc1honda
03-09-2017, 09:13 PM
Video's not working. Could it be piston-slap from the new forged units?

Well ther block is used with "200" mikes on it.

But wait there's more what In gods holy name would cause this kind of camshaft wear

http://imgur.com/zsldxAM

It goes like this all the way down the cam. Wearing where there is no journal contact? Never even head of it
rc1honda
03-09-2017, 09:23 PM
Check for the spacers between the rocker and valve

Guides and shims are all in place. Although the bottom of the ras seems like the rockers have been trying to pop off
wurley
03-09-2017, 11:39 PM
are you sure the cams are for hydro lifter and not solid?
CompleteXen
03-10-2017, 12:03 AM
Videos super quiet, for other to listen here is the fixed link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egKr3Ibbrwc.

Were bearing clearances checked before install? If so it almost sounds like VTC or chain noise.
Frank_Jaeger
03-10-2017, 02:09 AM
Are you really missing cam cap bolts?
hanzbrady
03-10-2017, 05:58 AM
Well ther block is used with "200" mikes on it.

But wait there's more what In gods holy name would cause this kind of camshaft wear

http://imgur.com/zsldxAM

It goes like this all the way down the cam. Wearing where there is no journal contact? Never even head of it

That's not wear, that's machining marks from the camshaft manufacture...
hanzbrady
03-10-2017, 06:02 AM
Video's not working. Could it be piston-slap from the new forged units?

From someone who works in a machine shop,

Piston slap doesn't exist. "piston slap" is a builders excuse to get you to believe that your rod knock isn't that serious. Race engines that get serviced after a season will often be used until they have about .010" piston to wall clearance. Which is a hell of a lot more than the .003- .0035 that they're originally machined to and you know what not one of them happens to "slap" on start up.
hanzbrady
03-10-2017, 06:08 AM
Guides and shims are all in place. Although the bottom of the ras seems like the rockers have been trying to pop off

That's because RAS suck. Let's think about what RAS actually do, in the event that a rocker would fall off it would normally just pop off or break and the valves in that cylinder wouldn't open and you'd have a misfire. Now when you add RAS the rocker can't fall off, well straight at least, more than likely you'll get a rocker stuck crooked over a valve or two hanging them open to punch a few holes in a piston ruining the short block and the head. But hey at least those RAS stopped the rocker from popping off right?

If you're really concerned about rockers flying off do a dual guide and solid pivot conversion, don't throw band aids at your problem.
RalliartRsX
03-10-2017, 06:19 AM
That's because RAS suck. Let's think about what RAS actually do, in the event that a rocker would fall off it would normally just pop off or break and the valves in that cylinder wouldn't open and you'd have a misfire. Now when you add RAS the rocker can't fall off, well straight at least, more than likely you'll get a rocker stuck crooked over a valve or two hanging them open to punch a few holes in a piston ruining the short block and the head. But hey at least those RAS stopped the rocker from popping off right?

If you're really concerned about rockers flying off do a dual guide and solid pivot conversion, don't throw band aids at your problem.


Ahhhhh, he doesn't have RAS actually. He was just trying to convey what it looks like so we can get a better idea on the issue :)

P.S Take a look at the pic.

Also, those do not look like cam machine marks to me??
hanzbrady
03-10-2017, 06:21 AM
Ahhhhh, he doesn't have RAS actually. He was just trying to convey what it looks like so we can get a better idea on the issue :)

P.S Take a look at the pic.

Also, those do not look like cam machine marks to me??

Cams are sand cast, except for GSC which do produce billet camshafts. From what it looks like those cams are a 2 piece cast and had material squish out the sides of the mold, so when they we're removed from the mold they simply snapped the residual material off.
rc1honda
03-10-2017, 06:35 AM
Ahhhhh, he doesn't have RAS actually. He was just trying to convey what it looks like so we can get a better idea on the issue :)

P.S Take a look at the pic.

Also, those do not look like cam machine marks to me??

I DO HAVE RAS. I took the bolts off that side of the cam caps to check out the RAS and see look at the rockers and lifters.

The bottom of the RAS legs are beat up from the rockers popping against them.
rc1honda
03-10-2017, 06:37 AM
Videos super quiet, for other to listen here is the fixed link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egKr3Ibbrwc.

Were bearing clearances checked before install? If so it almost sounds like VTC or chain noise.

Thanks for that doing man. Appreciate it.
RalliartRsX
03-10-2017, 06:55 AM
Cams are sand cast, except for GSC which do produce billet camshafts. From what it looks like those cams are a 2 piece cast and had material squish out the sides of the mold, so when they we're removed from the mold they simply snapped the residual material off.

Oppp,s I guess I misread about the RAS :(
tgd89
03-14-2017, 05:08 PM
My car was making similar sounds while the oil pump was failing, have you cranked the motor to see if oil is coming out of the cam squirters?
rc1honda
03-15-2017, 12:49 PM
My car was making similar sounds while the oil pump was failing, have you cranked the motor to see if oil is coming out of the cam squirters?

Had it running with the VC off. Oil pressure is good and oil is flowing out of the squirters.

Still don't know what's caused that crazy cam wear.
hanzbrady
03-15-2017, 12:53 PM
Had it running with the VC off. Oil pressure is good and oil is flowing out of the squirters.

Still don't know what's caused that crazy cam wear.

Cams are sand cast, except for GSC which do produce billet camshafts. From what it looks like those cams are a 2 piece cast and had material squish out the sides of the mold, so when they we're removed from the mold they simply snapped the residual material off.

That.^^^^^^
hanzbrady
03-15-2017, 12:59 PM
Had it running with the VC off. Oil pressure is good and oil is flowing out of the squirters.

Still don't know what's caused that crazy cam wear.

For example this is a product photo of a set of brand new Kelford SR20det cams and they have the same markings.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag214/HanzB_/186-C_zpss0bx3hwk.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/HanzB_/media/186-C_zpss0bx3hwk.jpg.html)
rc1honda
03-15-2017, 04:42 PM
For example this is a product photo of a set of brand new Kelford SR20det cams and they have the same markings.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag214/HanzB_/186-C_zpss0bx3hwk.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/HanzB_/media/186-C_zpss0bx3hwk.jpg.html)

Ah I see it. Mine are HKS but yea it was worrisome.

Also I have a new OEM lifter and rocker arm coming. Will have it in this week.

I'll update if it fixes the issue
bataangpinoy
03-15-2017, 05:10 PM
what oil are you running?
rc1honda
03-16-2017, 09:20 AM
what oil are you running?

Mobile 1 0w-40. I've was thinking of going rotella 15w 40
jedi03
03-16-2017, 01:13 PM
Did you measure the cams and lifters to get your shims right? That's odd if they are hopping like you are describing too
rc1honda
03-16-2017, 01:58 PM
Did you measure the cams and lifters to get your shims right? That's odd if they are hopping like you are describing too

Using the factory hydros, shims and guides. All put back into place from where they were From the factory.

It is possible it could be an bad spring as well.

Can't really rule out rod knock either. Although its definitely coming from the head and is a loud ticking not a knocking.
jedi03
03-17-2017, 08:02 AM
o check your coil packs...buddy had failed one sounded the same...did ruin the ring eventually with continued driving...also check for oil in the plug well
rc1honda
03-18-2017, 03:19 PM
o check your coil packs...buddy had failed one sounded the same...did ruin the ring eventually with continued driving...also check for oil in the plug well

The car would misfire then i assume right? The car runs awesome actually.

Has power everywhere. Pulls 18mmHg vac and idles like a champ. Honestly I'm really bummed becuase the car runs so well but has the fucking tic. Took the wind outta my sails
jedi03
03-18-2017, 04:59 PM
His didn't it was wierd...first time I had seen it without other symptoms...
rc1honda
03-19-2017, 11:08 AM
Update. Well new lifter and rocker arm did nothing.

Thinking it's rod knock.
jr_ss
03-19-2017, 11:09 AM
Pull the pan and remove bearing caps. You'll know when you see it.
tgd89
03-21-2017, 01:27 AM
^ Even with just pulling the pan on mine, lots o' gold everywhere.
LayNLow
04-01-2017, 05:33 PM
Still hasn't addressed the issue of the missing cam cap bolts, theres at least two missing.
rc1honda
04-01-2017, 08:01 PM
Still hasn't addressed the issue of the missing cam cap bolts, theres at least two missing.

No no. I took those off to take the RAS off.

Also small update. Took the car to friend on mine and stethoscoped it. It's definitely in the head not the block. Also it's coming from cylinder 4 on the intake side. I changed cyclinder 3.

So gonna put the new lifter in cyclinder 4 later tonite. There's a ray of hope for me yet.