my nitrous problem...help...lean...

[ProjectSlideways]

I have a zex nitrous kit on my ka24e. (the kit came off of my friends mx-6 v6) I have had some experience with nitrous even zex in general i had one on my DA integra. When I hit the juice(55 shot) my car falls lean on its butt...off of the gauge. I have an autometer A/F gauge. I dont have a wideband or anything like that.

I have pulled the plugs after passes and they show no sign of severe lean conditions. I have even maxed out to the rich with my safc and it just isnt enough to pull it back to stoiciometric. Am i maxing out my stock injectors or fuel pump? It also pulls back up to normal in 3 gear for a few seconds at around 4 thousand rpm...

I cant seem to figure this out. Help me.

[nrg]

Did you buy two of the big bottles?

[ProjectSlideways]

Did you buy two of the big bottles?

wow, i checked this post because i thought someone said something important. I was wrong...

seriously

[S14DB]

ever thought of a dyno with wideband?

[skatanic28]

you are gonna need to do better than the air/fuel gauge if you really want to know what you are running. widebands arent much $$$ anymore.

care to explain how exactly you have it set up? ive never been big into n2o. how are you setting the safc to only add fuel when you spray?

[ProjectSlideways]

you are gonna need to do better than the air/fuel gauge if you really want to know what you are running. widebands arent much $$$ anymore.

care to explain how exactly you have it set up? ive never been big into n2o. how are you setting the safc to only add fuel when you spray?

I do need a wideband. The zex unit manipulates vacuum on the fpr to regulate fuel. I just have two different setting one my safc one for normal and on for nitrous. The kit only injects at 100% throttle, so i just set my safc high throttle setting at 100 also.

[kidinthehall]

If you're gonna continue using nitrous, id ditch the ZEX setup all together or convert it to a wet system. Your lean condition could be a million things, so its hard to diagnose over the internet. could be a dying fuel pump that cant keep up, clogged fuel filter, too much bottle pressure, dead 02 screwing up an already useless reading from a crap A/F guage.......etc

[v8blakdak]

first off, the zex kit is dry correct?

that is your first problem. ur added a bunch of more n2o or basically more air into the motor w/o extra fuel? of course its gonna run lean. u need a wet kit.

NX has really nice kits. u can find a complete one for 400 bucks on ebay. however since u have a zex kit, u can just get a fuel solenoid and add that to your kit thus makin a wet kit. u will still need a nozzle to screw into your air intake.. like a shark nozzle that accepts a fuel and n2o ss line and mixes them in the tip. also u will need a bottle guage and a bottle heater to run consistent sprays.

the fuel solenoid attaches the best way to the test port on your fuel rail. if u do not have a test port, nx recommends adding a "T" to the fuel line. this however might leak eventually, so i would suggest running a seperate fuel line to the fuel solenoid. it would have to go from the fuel pump aux port (if u have one) under the car up to the bay. u can use fuel or transmission line to do this a simple pipe bender, the stuff isnt that hard.

also your AF gauge w/o a wideband is useless. did u hook it up to the ecu? its still useless. u need to put down the 200-300 for a wideband, or just get it dynoed, they put a af meter in your exhaust and it works well.

however if u do get a wet kit, then u really dont have to worry about AF ratio. it will also be fine, running rich is alot better then running lean. so if your bottle pressure drops (a heater will also keep it at 950psi +-) u will still spray the same amount of fuel, but less n2o resulting in boggin down the motor which isnt as bad as running lean.

so sell the af gauge, and get a fuel pressure gauge. this way u can always keep a eye on the fuel pressure and if its every irratic u dont wanna spray, b/c lack of fuel during a n2o spray = bye bye pistons. fuel gauges are expensive, unless u mount it outside the car on the cowl. u can get a isolator and mount it inside. however the best way is to get a electric fuel gauge b/c then u wont have any fuel running in a ss line in the actual inside of the car. same goes for a bottle gauge, electric ones are 150 bucks, mechincal ones are about 50, plus 20 bucks for the ss line that u have to run inside the car. (or can run it outside on the cowl) once again running n2o into the cab can be a bad idea, a leak would get u high, then kill you.

another advantage of a wet kit, is that u can run the 75 shot safely w/o any timing retard. once u get to the 100 shot, u should get a msd btm and set the retard to 2 degrees.

also get some new spark plugs one range colder. if u have a aftermarket ignition, open up the gap .5, if ur on a stock ignition, reduce the gap.

if u dont have a aftermarket ignition, u really need one in order to properly burn the mixture that u are spraying into the motor.

if your nissan is manual, u should really invest in a window switch. a reg. one is about 70 bucks plus the cost of pills. a digital one is about 90 from msd or 110 from nx. this does 2 things, u program it at wat rpm u want the juice to spray and at what rpm u want it to stop spraying. the latter of the 2 is the most important one, with a manual, if u miss a shift and ur spraying, the motor will rev past redline and u will need to change your underwear. setting it at 500rpm before redline is also a safe move. the digital one is best b/c u can do on the fly adjustments. the reg. one u need to always have the correct pill and u have to pop it in the box. also the digital one goes up in increments of 100. another good thing about a digital window switch is that it acts like a rpm guage besides the neat features of the pricey rpm guages.

so now that u have everything setup, u should get a fuel safety shutoff switch. this shuts off the entire system in case your fuel pressure all of a sudden drasitically drops. u can adjust the pressue at which u want it to cutoff the system. these are about 55 bucks for efi motors.

also u should get a nitrous filter, they are 20 bucks and really work. u can clean it about 3 times a year and notice a lot of crap it catches.

on this note, do not use any teflon paste on any connections. do not use any loctite either. use teflon tape, and only apply it in the opposite direction that the connection screws on. and do not use too much either. better less then more, or that stuff will get in your lines and clog em up.

do u have a purge? those are great to use for a few seconds before spraying, they make the shot instant, and not lagging. it gets all the air and water outta the lines.

also, when u use spray, use 93 octane gas a minimum. if u get into the 75-100 shot range, use some octane booster.

how is your system activated? is it a microswitch on the TB (WOT), under the gas pedal (WOT) or is it just a button?

good luck and dont spray anymore w/o the correct fuel mixture.

[mjjstang]

wow v8 u seem to know a little bit about NOS.

[v8blakdak]

wow v8 u seem to know a little bit about NOS.

YA me like the cheater gas

"boost is for babies, real men get bottles" :)

[SirWarrior]

umm OK, completly agree with v8 on this.
ebay has the window switches sometimes for cheap! I know.
Also, get an EGT gauge, it will tell you if you are running lean. As the temps would start to skyrocket.

[kidinthehall]

V8blad..: You're right on a few things, and just dead wrong on the others.

Do you understand how a dry nitrous kit functions at all? On a typical dry nitrous setup the additional fuel is supplied via the fuel injectors by using a certain amount of the bottle pressure to jack up the fuel pressure via jets. A nitrous kit that just sprays nitrous into the intake tract with no additional fueling is not a "dry kit".....its just retarded. Along the same lines as the geniuses that spray nitrous only in front of their mass air, assuming the cold air will cause the mafs to supply enough fuel.

I do agree with you on a wet kit being a better solution though. Im not typically a big fan of dry setups. But NX wet kits are junk. Ive seen more backfires and destroyed intake manifolds, due to their shitty nozzle setup causing fuel puddling, than any other kit.

Also....just assuming that because you're using a wet kit vs. a dry kit that you dont have to pay any attention to the a/f ratio is also asking for broken shit. Some companies jet their kits more conservatively than others.

You're also backwards on the use of teflon tape vs. paste. Technically you arent supposed to use ANYTHING on the AN fittings due to them sealing themselves with the angle cut into the fitting. But on the regular NPT stuff you should use small amounts of teflon paste NOT tape. the pieces of tape tend to break apart and end up getting lodged in solenoids etc.


better ignition isnt a bad idea, but not necessary. also, BTM stands for BOOST TIMING MASTER......its referrenced off of pressure for a forced induction setup, not for nitrous. You could just retard timing at the distributor.

[kidinthehall]

umm OK, completly agree with v8 on this.
ebay has the window switches sometimes for cheap! I know.
Also, get an EGT gauge, it will tell you if you are running lean. As the temps would start to skyrocket.


by the time you can diagnose problems with a nitrous kit via an EGT gauge........shit has melted.

[v8blakdak]

"via jets" where are these jets located?

everyone i have met or know uses nx or dynotune kits.. and we never have problems with them. of course backfiring occurs if a moron doesnt mount the nozzle correclty etc. however most of us are using nitrous plates, that attach under the TB and have a spray bar.

if u have a eye (guage) on your fuel, and your fuel is always flowing to the fuel jet, then AF doesnt matter unless ur tuning your motor for every hp it can make.. if u are, other things are more important. if u are just af gauge just to see if ur running rich or lean while WOT passes then say goodbye to your motor if u really do run into a lean situation. with a wet kit, 99% of the time if something goes wrong.. u run too rich.. almost never too lean.

i know u are not supposed to use anything.. however every other kit i install has a few leaks in it, and actually tape or paste works fine.. but we prefer tape b/c paste can really clog up lines..but a small amount of tape wont.

i know wat btm stands for, and u do not need "boost" to use it. a few buddies run a 125 shot and one runs a 150 shot and he dials in his btm that is hooked up to his intake port. it works fine.

u can retard it off the distributor. but most poeple like doing on the fly adjustments and like to tune while they drive to see whats best to thier liking.

excuse me for my lack of knowledge of dry kits, i never really got into those, they are more of a honda thing.

[FastBack 240]

bottles are for babies...real men get blown.

[v8blakdak]

bottles are for babies...real men get bewst.

no! bottles are for babies, real men get blown and a 408ci motor:)

[kidinthehall]

"via jets" where are these jets located?




a dry setup still has a "fuel" solenoid. It just doesnt actually spray in fuel from a sep. source. after the solenoid is a jet inline with the vac. line to the fpr. a certain amount of bottle pressure makes it through the jet and raises the fuel pressure.

[v8blakdak]

a dry setup still has a "fuel" solenoid. It just doesnt actually spray in fuel from a sep. source. after the solenoid is a jet inline with the vac. line to the fpr. a certain amount of bottle pressure makes it through the jet and raises the fuel pressure.

raised fuel pressure still wont add more fuel that you need. the injectors can only spray so much.. and they are controlled by the computer. unless a dry kit comes with a piggyback or a module that lets u tune the injectors.

[kidinthehall]

wrong again:

more fuel pressure = more fuel. All the computer tells the injector is how long to stay open. a certain amount of fuel is assumed to be injected at a given fuel pressure. raise that fuel pressure while keeping the same injector "on time" and more fuel is injected.

[kidinthehall]

to add to that.....

the only real reason not to run a dry kit that on a turbo'd/supercharged car is, running higher than stock boost, you're already pushing the limits of the injectors, possibly near static, and if you try and spray a ton of nitrous via a dry shot you run the risk of locking the injector, or just not being able to push enough fuel through the orifices. Which is why a wet system is reccomended for a forced induction setup.

But dry kits are usually safe until around ~125hp on a stock injector'd naturally aspirated car. Not to mention that a dry kit will make more power than a wet kit simply because N2O by itself takes up less room in the intake tract than the N2O+Fuel mixture of a wet kit. But still you're limited to what you can really get away with safely with a dry kit. And unless you've got plenty of fuel injector and someone that knows what they're doing tuning......i wouldnt use a dry setup on a supercharged/turbo'd car.

[mjjstang]

everybody shut up, your making my fucking head hurt.

[v8blakdak]

kid in the hall, ur wrong plain and simply

maybe when u break into the 10s we'll talk.

[TheSnail]

V8 and Kid, you guys are a trip, lol. Great info you guys are supplying, though I don't know who is incorrect. Both of you seem confident, so its hard to choose, but yet entertaining at the same time.

Vote

V8- 58%
Kid- 42%

[ProjectSlideways]

what cc are the stock injectors? Think im maxing them out.

[TheSnail]

270cc i belive, same as the de.

[kidinthehall]

kid in the hall, ur wrong plain and simply

maybe when u break into the 10s we'll talk.



You're an idiot. plain and simple.


10s huh.........wow. Our 10.5" tire L/S shop car runs 8.40s @ 166 naturally aspirated gimp.

I work at one of the largest tuners of mustangs and other EFI fords in the country. I see more 10 second cars on the dyno in any given week than you've probably seen in your life. You shoulnt make assumptions about someone based on what their car runs. You've obvisously proven that yourself...........an 11 second truck driven by someone who doesnt understand the most BASIC FUCKING FUNCTIONS. :bash:



again. if you think im somehow wrong on this. id LOVE to hear you explain it otherwise. perhaps you should call up whomever built your truck for you and ask them how a dry nitrous kit works. Or maybe i can fax you over a set of instructions from an NOS or Compucar kit ive got lying around at the shop.

[kidinthehall]

V8 and Kid, you guys are a trip, lol. Great info you guys are supplying, though I don't know who is incorrect. Both of you seem confident, so its hard to choose, but yet entertaining at the same time.

Vote

V8- 58%
Kid- 42%



confidence has nothing to do with actually being right. Im sure hitler was pretty fucking confident, and we see how that worked out for him.

[TheSnail]

I give up..

Kid-63
V8-37

[v8blakdak]

i really do not care for dry kits, thats why i even stated i dont know much about em.

sad that u work on so many fast cars, yet dont drive one yourself.

[mjjstang]

perhaps you should call up whomever built your truck for you and ask them how a dry nitrous kit works.

well kid, v8 has done most of the work himself, other than some occasional grinding of shackle rivets that I had to take care of, plus why would he need to know about dry kits, when hes runnin a wet kit. that might put too much info in ones brain and thats not good.

[kidinthehall]

sad that u work on so many fast cars, yet dont drive one yourself.


My 240 is my daily work transport. My WRX ran pretty consistant 7.50's in the 1/8, and my Honda CBR has been 10.70's @127



Its pretty sad that you couldve avoided making an ass of yourself by just admitting that you dont know what the fuck you're talking about instead of saying

"Hey!!! look at me, im a dumb dick with a quick truck........this guys 240 only runs mid 12's.........he CANT be right" :cj:

[brianglawson]

"Bottles are for babies, real men get Hairdryers"

[v8blakdak]

hey go hang out with www.fatmouse.tk you troll

[Id-]

well kid, v8 has done most of the work himself, other than some occasional grinding of shackle rivets that I had to take care of, plus why would he need to know about dry kits, when hes runnin a wet kit. that might put too much info in ones brain and thats not good.

why not know about dry kits? maybe because when situations such as these arise he wont look like such an ass... definitely picked the wrong person to wave his dick at.... i can vouch for that shop car too; saw it in person quite a few times... its definitely more badass than just about anything out there, still has valid registration, radio, interior, etc and can be legally driven on the street :D

as for him being a troll, v8, you gave bad advice and showed you didnt know what you were talking about; within your FIRST paragraph i knew you were just blowin smoke, he's been here a lot longer than you and has a lot more posts than you, take a look at the evidence before you start waving around the troll flag like you waved your dick around earlier

[FastBack 240]

V8 Although you dont know much about dry kits, your wet kit sure blew moparmikes poontang out of the water the other night at the track. Keep up the good work.

[v8blakdak]

ur all a bunch of slack jaws. please remove yourselfs from the gene pool.

[kidinthehall]

ur all a bunch of slack jaws. please remove yourselfs from the gene pool.



Yeah....you got me there.

Wow. :goyou:


Care to share any more of that lightning fast wit with us? By the way, my offer still stands on faxing you over some instructions, so you don't have to take MY word for it.

[mjjstang]

hey go hang out with www.fatmouse.tk you troll


nevermind, I dont know this guy, I thought he was someone else. hmm,

[ProjectSlideways]

holy moley...

[kidinthehall]

yeah......

Sorry your thread got completely jacked. I tried to help :)

[ThatRicerDaniel]

Back to the original help topic.. what bottle pressure are you running?

[ThatGuy]

Thread too jacked. Next time more helpful info, less senseless bickering.
:lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: :lockd: