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Kid Zelda
09-24-2004, 04:31 PM
Calif. regulators approve world's toughest vehicle smog rules

By TIM MOLLOY
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- California air regulators on Friday unanimously approved the world's most ambitious rules to reduce the car emissions that contribute to global warming, a move that could bring sweeping changes to how the rest of the nation fights vehicle pollution.

The regulations are expected to cut exhaust emissions in cars and light trucks by 25 percent and in larger trucks and SUVs by 18 percent.

Their approval by the California Air Resources Board came after nearly two full days of debate and discussion, during which the auto industry vigorously stated its opposition.

Industry officials argued that the board did not have the authority to adopt such sweeping regulations, that they couldn't be met by current technology, and that they unfairly targeted California, which produces less than 1 percent of the world's greenhouse gases.



Heat-trapping greenhouse gases are believed by many scientists to contribute to global warming.

The proposals would require automakers to reduce emissions by using such technological innovations as better air conditioners, more efficient transmissions and smaller engines.

Among those supporting the regulations was Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's environmental protection secretary, Terry Tamminen, who said Friday he and Schwarzenegger believe California should do its part to reduce pollution. He strongly urged the board to adopt the proposals.

"We can make it clear that yes, we understand that our contribution, no matter how large or small, makes a difference," Tamminen said. "Every single action that we take - or inaction - makes a difference."

Gloria J. Bergquist, a spokeswoman for the industry trade group Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, said the regulations would only reduce worldwide emissions of greenhouse gases by "one-tenth of 1 percent."

"We see that as no apparent health benefit at a great cost to California consumers," she said.

Bergquist said manufacturers are already working to produce cleaner vehicles, but that introducing the technology required under the regulations would be "almost as complicated as developing the first automobile."

Asked after the vote if her group planned to sue to block the regulations, she said that was an option but no decision had been made yet.

The board's staff said the cost increases would top out at about $1,000 per vehicle by 2016. Staff members studied the automakers' estimates Thursday night, and said in a report issued Friday that the automakers' $3,000 figure was an exaggeration.

Air Resources Board Chairman Alan C. Lloyd and other board members said they were disappointed that automakers did not accept invitations to work with them on the regulations.

"The response, the silence, was deafening," Lloyd said. "We should be able to work together. I hope that we still can work together on this tremendously important issue. The stakes could not be higher."

Board member Mark DeSaulnier, a Contra Costa County supervisor, said he had slept fitfully the night before the vote because he felt "disappointment, frustration, and sometimes anger at the auto industry."

He objected to industry arguments that Washington, D.C., and not California, should lead efforts to fight greenhouse emissions - and argued that automakers should have taken the lead themselves.

"If I had my druthers, it would be settled in Detroit," he said.

The proposals stem from a law signed by former Gov. Gray Davis in 2002 that required the board to set emission standards for greenhouse gases. The bill's author, Assemblywoman Fran Pavley, D-Agoura Hills, said Friday's vote marked the first time in the world regulations have been placed on vehicles for the specific purpose of reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

She said the fact the action had the support of Davis, a Democrat, and Schwarzenegger, the Republican who replaced him, "speaks to the unified effort among all Californians" to reduce greenhouse gases.

Board members said there is no dispute that greenhouse gases contribute to global warming that can harm California's economy in fields ranging from agriculture to tourism.

They said the emissions can also lead to serious respiratory problems, especially among children, by exacerbating the effects of smog. Los Angeles has the worst smog problem in the nation.

Board member Henry Gong, a physician, noted that many medical experts pushed for the regulations and none testified against them.

Andrew Bohan
09-24-2004, 04:42 PM
/me moves back to washington


see ya



:wtc:

Kid Zelda
09-24-2004, 04:46 PM
/me moves back to washington


see ya



:wtc:
Your 2 4 0 still belongs to me .. no matter how far you move :boink:

HyperTek
09-24-2004, 04:47 PM
did that law ever pass about hitting the cars 30 years and older??

man this blows... id hate to put all my money into my car and get it taken away or loose it from law

old_s13
09-24-2004, 04:51 PM
http://www.flashoffroad.com/features/arnoldshoot/DSC01710.jpg

Among those supporting the regulations was Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's environmental protection secretary, Terry Tamminen, who said Friday he and Schwarzenegger believe California should do its part to reduce pollution. He strongly urged the board to adopt the proposals.

Uh huh. Sure Arnold, rather than focusing on smog why not focus on your fucking FACE riding inside of that mass-poluting shit-pile of a vehicle known as a H2... BITCH.

Kid Zelda
09-24-2004, 04:54 PM
Bold_s13.2

Me is tinking de saf ding .. h2 WHAT [email protected]!! [email protected]!

ThatGuy
09-24-2004, 04:56 PM
So the pollution in Cali, had nothing to do with big budget movie studios setting off massive explosions and pyrotechnics on a daily basis? It's all about the cars. Got it.

Kid Zelda
09-24-2004, 04:59 PM
Yes, lets not forget all the Factories.. they run on Pepsi .. no pollution @ all
Oh wait, they "contribute" to the different parties ... great :/

IMPEACH THE TERMINATOR ... HE MUST BE DISSASEMMBYLED

Andrew Bohan
09-24-2004, 05:16 PM
Yes, lets not forget all the Factories.. they run on Pepsi .. no pollution @ all
Oh wait, they "contribute" to the different parties ... great :/


yes.
i think there was a study done that determined heavy industry makes waaaaaaay more pollution than cars.


and let's not forget about heavy diesel, belching black smoke. nice n clean.

MakotoS13
09-24-2004, 05:39 PM
you guys are effing screwed.

Kid Zelda
09-24-2004, 05:51 PM
you guys are effing screwed.


YYEEEHHAAAWWW.. ride'em cowboy .. Texas is next [email protected][email protected]! muahaha

proj240sx
09-24-2004, 06:02 PM
moving away from this expensive state w/ more and more BS laws starting to sound better and better..

BoroBoroS13
09-24-2004, 06:30 PM
Great... now we are going to have to pay 3K more for a new car to save one-tenth of 1 percent of the worlds polution. Great job you tree hugging bastards, whats next? You gonna ban cars all together and tell us to walk to save the world?

Pepperoni
09-24-2004, 06:40 PM
Reduce By 25%???! Jeez Wtf!! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING??? Oh yeah, $$$


:bs:

kanekz
09-24-2004, 06:41 PM
Yes, lets not forget all the Factories.. they run on Pepsi .. no pollution @ all
Oh wait, they "contribute" to the different parties ... great :/

IMPEACH THE TERMINATOR ... HE MUST BE DISSASEMMBYLED

Omar, you are funny in your own right man. Some of the shit that you say makes me giggle....like a little girl. :ugh:

WilloW
09-24-2004, 06:44 PM
you guys are effing screwed.

From what I know all the other states based their smog reglulations on California, and they are making changes to adopt similar standards.

YYEEEHHAAAWWW.. ride'em cowboy .. Texas is next [email protected][email protected]! muahaha.

Hahah, that shit already started in Texas. Dallas and Austin already got the roller dyno and OBDII emission tests, there could be a few more cities but those are the one I know of. What part of Texas are you at MakotoS13? I'm moving to Dallas in a few months.

HaLo
09-24-2004, 06:55 PM
So the toughest spot in North America just got tougher? Good luck to you guys... :eek:

(makes more "illegal" motors for the rest of the country and Canada though... ;) )

theronin
09-24-2004, 07:24 PM
we still have the hottest women though :)

Pacman
09-24-2004, 08:06 PM
Doesn't California have the toughest laws? Why would they want them tougher? Why doesn't the states people have a say, not just the politicians?

evilimport
09-24-2004, 11:47 PM
thank god Im in Florida...oh, wait, we have hurricanes to blow our smog away......shit.

vvtisupra
09-25-2004, 03:14 AM
fuck that methane is one of the gasses part of the green house effect and we make it and so do cows. Lets help out by eating more meet ! Not making cars piss like civics :smash:

that180guy
09-25-2004, 03:57 AM
booooooooooooo more emissions laws!!!!!
"those hatchi guys whore waiting 10 yrs for their 20valve motors 2 be legal.....FAT CHANCE" - kazuo

u guys kno how it goes....more laws = more laws broken ;)

91CRXsiR
09-25-2004, 04:00 AM
well who here follows the friggin smog laws anyways.

they should just cut all smog laws/insurance crap and make gas like 3.00 a gallon or something..

KA24DESOneThree
09-25-2004, 09:47 AM
California also slapped BMW with $42 million in fines.

Arnie, get rid of the visual check and I'll let the 25% thing and the BMW fines slide.

tekNetium
09-25-2004, 10:36 AM
they should just cut all smog laws/insurance crap and make gas like 3.00 a gallon or something..
Oh, USD$3 a gallon is alot? Try paying USD$6.5 a gallon like us Euroboys.

evilimport
09-25-2004, 10:48 AM
Try paying USD$6.5 a gallon like us Euroboys.
Ouch! Screw that... you have emission laws there?

fastpace
09-25-2004, 10:59 AM
The strict smog laws has already hit alot of the major cities in Texas. But not everywhere. When I leave college and have to live in a big city in Texas I will more than likely go back to my college town or a small city to get my inspection sticker. That is what my brother's friend did because she couldn't pass in houston.

Oh yeah about the damn smog thing, it is totally BS. I took an environmental class in the summer and my prof was probaly one of the coolest profs I have had. He told us that smog and pollution of air is over exaggerated and really not a big problem as all of the tree huggers say it is. He explained it really good, but the most important thing is that the govt. is power hungry.

ZK
09-25-2004, 11:42 AM
Stricter smog also drives people to buy new cars because some older cars wont pass any more. More money for the car industry.

misnomer
09-25-2004, 11:44 AM
Well, look at the facts:

- The law was passed in California
- California already tends to have the most involvement in regulating it's citizens lives
- Regulation is generally only implemented as needed

Thus, Californians obviously have no common sense and therefor must be regulated in every aspect of everything.

Think I'm wrong? Who elected your officials? Yeah, that's right. I'll keep laughing from my desert home over the hill :P

Regardless of anything, there is a definite problem with fuel consumption. Granted, the environmental stand on this is rediculous. Cars pollute, but nowhere near as much as they did 15 years ago. The problem with fossil fuels is our "dependence" on foreign oils. Shit, if these regulations force a change away from gas powered internal combustion, I'm all for it-- provided the alternative isn't rediculous as well. Look at it this way, when we stop fighting over control of oil, we can fight over more important things. . . like control of coffee. . .

xVaporx
09-25-2004, 11:51 AM
ha ha and you thought he was the next Ronald Reagan!

I'll stick to dodging hurricanes thanks :)

WilloW
09-25-2004, 11:53 AM
I wonder if those jackasses that introduced these damn smog laws are actually enviromental scientists, or do they just sit behind their desk relying on some data given to them. Sometime I feel like these politicians look the other way and use the general car population as a scapegoat to this whole polution issue. Why don't they focuse more on the heavy machines industry like semis and tractors/farm equipments etc.. Ever seen the shit that spew out from those diesel semis?!? Lobbying power.

nokeone
09-25-2004, 12:58 PM
Doesn't California have the toughest laws? Why would they want them tougher? Why doesn't the states people have a say, not just the politicians?

money..

and what do you think elections are for?...that's the people's say...

this doesn't really change much...if your n/a KA passed before it will pass now...SRs were never legal, nor were KATs...so i don't really see the big deal or how it will affect us drastically...if you have a smog hook up now...you'll have one when these new standards are implemented...

yeah it's annoying that they are going after the one thing that we enjoy...but most people couldn't care less about this...so it's an easy target..

this is mostly geared towards new cars though..that is what is upsetting the auto manufacturers...it is going to raise production costs on NEW cars which will be forced to adopt these new standards from the factory...so their prices will go up...they are worried about sales and profit margins...

i don't think we have THAT much to worry about compared to all that we already deal with as far as cops and inspections and all that crap...

i bet we wont even notice a change...

kazuo
09-25-2004, 01:17 PM
I'm personally sore about it cus it does away with the 30 year exemption.. which means basically, in effect, that, even in 20 years, our SR/CA/KA-T setups will never be smog-proof.

As far as the classic cars go, pre-75 vehicles are still exempt, which is great, its just that cars don't become exempt after 30 years anymore... which still blows, IMHO.

I read, in the article, that the woman that proposed the bill had her office under CHP guard because of death threats she received... she also desrcibed a "deluge" of phone calls, emails, faxes etc that she received regarding the measure.

Perhaps that's a sign... :P

nightwalker
09-25-2004, 02:32 PM
just a fun fact. 70 percent of the Green house gases are produced by the Earth's ocean.

misnomer
09-26-2004, 12:19 PM
I'm pretty sure the main concern here is smog in the major cities-- to which transportation is a major cause (most research I find puts motor vehicles at least 50% at fault here). On the broader scale, it is a lesser concern. Whether or not these regulations are the right way to go about combatting smog is a serious question. I don't doubt they'll be effective. . . but I'd say better (or more widely used) public transportation is the way to go. Look at it this way: A bus with 30 people burns much less fuel and sends off fewer noxious gasses than 30 cars with one person each.

Keep in mind that this seems to primarily effect new cars. You likely won't see a difference.

I'll admit, this move sounds mostly political. Most of the bad ideas of our time have been political. . . You guys need to get some new people running that place :P

tastyratz
09-26-2004, 01:22 PM
cali sucks plain and simple im glad i dont deal with that shit. what about all those crappy ass laws its unbelievable! its really a political move as always but as previously said its always the cars they target. i see trucks going down the road you cant drive behind from the smell and see huge black clouds rise from producing the emissions of 100 cars, and big smelly piggish industrial areas burning tons of crap but we dont wanna target them oh no! if they cared about emissions they would hit it where it matters...

CKAMC
09-26-2004, 03:02 PM
hmm I think this has offically made me not want to move to cali *along with other gay shit like high prices on houses and ferrets being illegal*

I guess its time to scope out oregan.... the roads around there are supposedly great :)

s14 RL
09-27-2004, 02:29 PM
Here's a related article--no more loopholes for the classics

Classic Car Lovers Dismayed by New Law

Mon Sep 27,10:48 AM ET

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Lovers of California's classic cars, celebrated in the Beach Boys song for "fun, fun, fun," worried that a new state law could take their T-birds and little deuce coupes away.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (news - web sites) has signed a bill requiring that cars 30 years and older be tested under California's strict smog regulations, closing a loophole over the protests of classic car collectors, including "Tonight Show" host Jay Leno.

Aides said the bill signed on Thursday would help the state's air quality. California also approved the nation's most stringent rules to reduce auto emissions linked to global warming this week.

But classic car hobbyists argued their cars have little effect on the state's smog.

"We're not too excited about it. The impact on the environment by classic cars is minimal," said John Halstead, president of the Bakersfield Camaro Club. "Most of the cars don't make it out of the garage for any other reason than for car shows once or twice a month in the summer."

The exact number of classic cars in California is unknown, but the state has hundreds of clubs for car hobbyists.

Leno, on whose show Schwarzenegger announced he would run for governor, protested personally against the bill, said Marva Diaz, legislative director for Assembly Member Sally Lieber, who wrote the bill.

Leno called Lieber's office twice to register his displeasure, Diaz said.

"He was very upset the first time," Diaz said. "He thought his whole collection would have to be smog-checked."

"The second time he called he was upset because he had been told the assemblywomen had said on the radio that he supported the bill," Diaz said. "He wanted to make sure it was clear to me to tell her that he remained opposed."