Paying someone to restore a 91 240sx?

[deecue]

Hey everybody,

I own a 91 240sx LE.. She was literally my first and only car since the age of 16 (now 34) and I'm completely torn with what to do with her.

Unfortunately, I'm not a gear head, and while I absolutely love this car I know it's not in me to start learning how to completely put serious work in to on my own. Half of me thinks I need to move on while the other half wants to set it on fire before letting another person peel it away from my cold dead fingers.

I'm considering putting her up for sale but now I'm entertaining the idea of putting the money I was going to use for another (new to me) used car and pay somebody to get it all going strong again with an SR20DET swap. My budget is around 12k but I have to be honest - I have no idea how this works. I love the idea of it all, but I also want something fun and reasonably dependable that doesn't require taking back to the shop once a month. (The car is literally my daily driver)

So what say you? Would 12k get me in that ballpark of a fabulously restored 240? Can any mechanic do this kind of work? If not, where do you find one that does? How long would it take for someone to take it on? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? I don't plan to put this on the track, I really just want my car back like it was when I was 16 and never turn back.

I went ahead and left some information below and some pics to give you all an idea of what she looks like. Any thoughts, advice, and ideas on the matter are greatly appreciated.

Thanks all,
dave quirus

Nissan 240sx LE
Year:1991
VIN:JN1MS36P2MW020886
Mileage:220k
Engine Type:2.4L ka24de
Transmission Type:5 speed manual
Located in: Elmsford, NY 10523.


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[izzy-]

Wow, crazy you had this car for half your lifetime! Very cool.
What is the rust situation on it? For 12k, you might as well by one already swapped and rust free. Then just have this one as a side car.
Or buy a roller and start for scratch

Ballpark price if you keep it
Paint/body work: 3.5k
Sr20: 2.5k-3k and labor:?
Rust reapair: 100s-1000s
interior: 300 if you just buy s14 seats and rear seat
Suspension: 100s-1000s

[Malik]

that sounds about right.

just need new seats and some rust repair. and then see where you're at

[Matej]

This is a heartwarming thread. :)

[burnsauto]

When you say restored, do you mean a real, proper restoration? A real quality restoration of any car, done by a shop, could start at around 20-25k (this is a lower estimate). This would make the car run, drive, and look brand new. Sure you could not restore some parts, and have a partially restored car, for partial that figure, but I'm not sure if that's what your after.

I'm a professional body tech, I've done restoration work on classics, worked on full blown track/race cars, collision work, a few complete SR swaps, and just about anything in between. I For a 12K budget, you could restore the body to like new standards, and a quality paint job (again, this is if you paid a shop to do this work). That would eat up most of your budget, but that leaves you an engine with 220k, an interior that looks like it needs a complete replacement/restoration, and a suspension that's dealt with NY roads for 24 years (I grew up in NY, I know what it's like).

You may want to consider just cutting your losses with this car, based mainly on budget. It looks like you've used this car a lot, and built tons of memories, but bringing it back to original spec, let alone an engine swap, would cost a mint if you don't do the work yourself.

[Trinidrift3]

you can easily do it. I'm from Rockland county, by the palisades mall. if you want someone to do the work you have options. there are many s-chassis shops that can do sr swaps. its not that hard. I restored my last s13 and am in the process of restoring my current one. the process will take time though. do you have another car to drive while restoring this one? if not you'll have to bang out the swap in one weekend. that is the longest part. not sure how you'd get body and paint done without it being in a body shop for at least a week. good luck finding someone to do the body in westchester. I can never find someone around the 845 that i trust for paint

i understand that this is tough without the experience or knowledge. selling and moving onto another car might have to be something you consider, but i wouldnt give up if i were you. just remember if you do all the work you'll never get that money back, even if you sell or do a full part out.

[Goofs]

OP clearly does not just want to "buy another one"

You have a pretty nice budget, I'd definitely go forward with the restoration. Buy a reliable and inexpensive daily first, and then the key is to do tons of research about shops, prices, parts etc. That's if you do not want headaches along the way.

Time-table wise? I'd say you're definitely looking at a 6 month project at the very least as I assume you're a hard working adult with tons of other responsibilities. It's a marathon, I'd rather take the time to do it right then to rush it and not be happy with the result. You've already owned the car for a bunch of years, what's 1 or 2 more.

[dluevanos01]

When you say restored, do you mean a real, proper restoration? A real quality restoration of any car, done by a shop, could start at around 20-25k (this is a lower estimate). This would make the car run, drive, and look brand new. Sure you could not restore some parts, and have a partially restored car, for partial that figure, but I'm not sure if that's what your after.

I'm a professional body tech, I've done restoration work on classics, worked on full blown track/race cars, collision work, and just about anything in between. For a 12K budget, you could restore the body to like new standards, and a quality paint job (again, this is if you paid a shop to do this work). That would eat up most of your budget, but that leaves you an engine with 220k, an interior that looks like it needs a complete replacement/restoration, and a suspension that's dealt with NY roads for 24 years (I grew up in NY, I know what it's like).

You may want to consider just cutting your losses with this car, based mainly on budget. It looks like you've used this car a lot, and built tons of memories, but bringing it back to original spec, let alone an engine swap, would cost a mint if you don't do the work yourself.

This!

OP: 12k is a good amount of money to build a solid car but that would require you yo do a lot of the work. Quality labor is not cheap and a good portion of your budget will be taken up by this.

[silviaks2nr]

Interior re-upholstery and replacement panels etc- $4000, body rust repair, under coating and paint $6000, engine mechanical $2000 I think you're there for a pretty good cosmetic restoration. I'd try to find a better set of original wheels.

[derass]

This is a heartwarming thread. :)

Agreed. Kudos to owner for having the same passion as the rest of us even. Being on this forum and making this post demonstrates that.

I also think that you should go ahead with the restoration. As the one person mentioned a complete restoration would be into the tens of thousands of dollars. I would instead focus on breathing new life into your car by addressing the major areas of concern.

Start with quality body work and paint. This will likely cost you $5k+ It's just a shame that it's your only car. Winter driving will bring back the rust in a few years.

I wouldn't spend too much on the interior. Only the seats are in really bad shape. I would replace them with ones in better condition. If you can't find any, you can have them reupholstered from around $1k. The steering wheel looks pretty worn too. You could find another stock one are get a nice aftermarket one and hub for around $500. These parts can be found here in the classifieds. http://zilvia.net/f/forumdisplay.php?f=10

A simple SR20DET would definitely make the car more fun. Mine has been very reliable over the years. Just take into consideration that a swapped engine might cause difficulty getting your emission testing done. I'm not familiar with your local laws. I would leave sourcing the engine to the shop. In my opinion, a complete half-cut is the best choice. I would expect to pay $2-4k installed, depending on what aftermarket parts are used. Report back here with any developments and we'll be sure to steer you in the right direction.

Now would be a good time to inspect and replace any worn suspension and braking components. Things like pad, rotors, bushings, springs and shocks to maintain the car's safety, comfort and practicality. Have the shop doing the engine swap do this work as well for your convenience.

Since you do not plan on doing the work yourself. You will need to find 2 shops in my opinion. One for the bodywork/paint and other for the engine swap and repairs. Be sure to research both thoroughly. Look for good reviews and recommendations. Visit the shops and talk to the owners once you've narrowed your choices down. Those impressions and your gut feeling will allow you to make the right choice.

Body and upholstery shops can be researched online as that type of work is universal not Nissan specific. However, for the engine and suspension work, I suggest you find a shop local to yourself that is familiar with these cars and the SR20. Use the regional forums for this. Wouldn't hurt to get suggestions on body shops there too. http://zilvia.net/f/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Overall, I think you have a good budget and will be able to enjoy your car for many more years. Good luck and keep us posted!

Edit: Forgot to mention the rims. Again, you could either refinish the ones you have, find another set in better condition or get aftermarket wheels. The latter might be the best choice. You could have winter tires on your original wheels and not worry about them getting damaged by the snow and salt. Then all-season or summer tires on a set of aftermarket wheels for the rest of the year.

[Ilya]

Just remember, that when a 16 year old girl texting rear ends you, your car is still worth 2.5k no matter what engine is in it, no matter how dent free your body is, or how old your paint is.

But I would enjoy the build thread if you decide to make one!

[derass]

Good point. That's the problem with these cars: it's difficult to insure them for what they're actually worth as a daily driver.

Sure, you could have it insured for an appraised value, but then you would be restricted to occasional use. You would need another car for daily use. A standard policy will only reimburse you the book value, market value at best. Not ideal after you invest $12k restoring it. In the event of a total loss, you would not be reimbursed what you spent.

If you were to buy, say, a 350Z for that same $12k, you would be insured for nearly it's entire value

[kikcaffine]

If the rust is THAT bad on the rear lower portion, Id really hate to see what the front shock towers are looking like, aswell as the floor boards and frame rails. I think your first stop honestly needs to be a body shop and get a solid estimate. I noticed the hatch was rusted also under the spoiler. Like most are saying you maybe better off getting this one painted and buying another thats already swapped and keep this one inside and what not. But that rust really scares me.

[Matej]

You can probably find a local 240SX enthusiast who would be willing to help you out with it for much less than a shop, or teach you how to work on it yourself.

However, a turbo motor such as the SR20DET is probably not the best idea if you rely on shops to work on your car. You would be better off just making the stock motor a bit more fun with a lightweight flywheel and driveshaft.
Or put in a non-turbo 2JZ.

[Malik]

start with the rust and some new seats

[Reece]

I love this thread.

Fix all the rust, get some new seats, repaint it?

So glad to see someone taking care of an S chassis the right way.

[deecue]

Woah!! Such an overwhelming response, thank you so much everybody!

I seriously can't get over it.. I'll definitely go through and try to respond to all the questions and comments thus far..

Many thanks again to all who have commented and contributed - really can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

More here in few...

[deecue]

For 12k, you might as well by one already swapped and rust free. Then just have this one as a side car.
Or buy a roller and start for scratch

i totally hear ya but, unfortunately, it's not where my heart is on this one.. it's not about me owning *a* 240sx, it's about me owning *this* 240sx.. i know it sounds insane and probably wouldn't make sense to most people out there, but it's weird to own something for this long and just replace it with something that just looks identical.. i wouldn't have the same satisfaction every time i get behind the wheel so i would might as well be inside next car x or next car y at that point..

Ballpark price if you keep it
Paint/body work: 3.5k
Sr20: 2.5k-3k and labor:?
Rust reapair: 100s-1000s
interior: 300 if you just buy s14 seats and rear seat
Suspension: 100s-1000s

awesome, thanks for the breakdown.. obviously - i fully expect this to fluctuate based on my specific situation - but that helps a ton with regards to generalities and assumptions to get me in the ballpark..

[deecue]

When you say restored, do you mean a real, proper restoration? A real quality restoration of any car, done by a shop, could start at around 20-25k (this is a lower estimate). This would make the car run, drive, and look brand new.

good point, i should probably clarify.. i mean restoration to the point of it being an enjoyable car without much hassle or safety concerns on a daily basis. not an entering any car shows here kind of restoration.. and not a first day off the lot kind of restoration.. just enough to keep this running solid and comfortable for say another decade or so?

I For a 12K budget, you could restore the body to like new standards, and a quality paint job (again, this is if you paid a shop to do this work). That would eat up most of your budget, but that leaves you an engine with 220k, an interior that looks like it needs a complete replacement/restoration, and a suspension that's dealt with NY roads for 24 years (I grew up in NY, I know what it's like).

got it, that's good to know.. and both the interior and engine would be something i'd want to replace still, so that's some good perspective.. also just wanted to confirm the right information out there for everyone:

first 7 years were in PA (orig owner)
next 9 years were in MD (me)
next 4 years were in GA (me)
last 5 years were in NY (me)

You may want to consider just cutting your losses with this car, based mainly on budget. It looks like you've used this car a lot, and built tons of memories, but bringing it back to original spec, let alone an engine swap, would cost a mint if you don't do the work yourself.

hey, thanks man.. really appreciate the honest opinion here.. glad to be hearing sound points from both sides of this coin.. the memories have been incredible.. cleaned it other day and found some pretty wild hand-written down notes from throughout the years..

[CrimsonRockett]

If your intentions are to simply restore this car, you can keep costs down by doing some of the simpler things yourself.

Body/paint/rust repair, I'd highly recommend getting that done at a shop who can tackle it all at once. I personally would have the engine out to get the engine bay resprayed at the same time, but that is much more involved and would significantly bring up your labor costs. A good paint job will be in the $4,000 range (glass out/jambs done). Obviously this can go up due to the amount of rust your car may have.

Interior wise, as others have mentioned, your interior appears to be in good shape aside from the seats. Personal opinion: Upgrade to S14 seats, full set of 180sx seats (to have matching front and rears), or get your current set reupholstered. Ultimately depends on comfort and style. Order a replacement carpet. Steering wheel, you can keep it simple with just a new hub and steering wheel of choice. Take it a step up with a quick release and lock to help prevent theft.

Suspension wise, this can get pricey. If you're going as far as getting the entire car repainted/restored, might as well upgrade the suspension while you're at it. SPL is a good brand if you decide to go with adjustable arms with spherical bearings. Otherwise, you can easily source a set of Nismo arms. Not adjustable of course, but you get better bushings that haven't been worn for the last twenty years. Replace worn items like your motor mounts, steering rack/rack bushings, tie rods/ends.

You can stick with a good strut/spring combo. Although you do have plenty of choices for height adjustable coilovers, it all comes down to what your ultimate goal is. You can put together a complete Z32 brake upgrade at a reasonably low cost, or keep it simple by having your brake calipers rebuilt and run a good rotor/pad combo.

Engine/powertrain, my personal preference is the KA mostly due to convenience and simplicity. Minor mods can definitely wake the engine up and make it a bit more "peppy" if you will. Rebuild the motor/transmission along with a full new gasket set from Nissan, upgrade to a better clutch/flywheel combo with a nice short shifter, 1pc driveshaft to eliminate the worn carrier bearing.

This does sound like quite a bit, but nothing that can't be done over the course of a year.

[deecue]

OP clearly does not just want to "buy another one"

dead on..

Time-table wise? I'd say you're definitely looking at a 6 month project at the very least as I assume you're a hard working adult with tons of other responsibilities. It's a marathon, I'd rather take the time to do it right then to rush it and not be happy with the result. You've already owned the car for a bunch of years, what's 1 or 2 more.

yep, work every day and it's the kind of job that doesn't leave much time to focus on big projects like this every night at home.. that being said, the office is only 8 miles away from my house and i "feel" like my wife and i can probably work out being on one car between the two of us for 6 months. and if not, i think i can figure out taking a public transit bus with a little bit of walking if i had to in the end..

one idea i even had was to drive it down to GA for over the winter and spring. my father in-law is the best and most honest mechanic i've ever known and he runs a shop down in Stone Mountain.. i have no idea if he and the rest of his team would be remotely interested in this (still need to speak with him), but maybe i could get lucky and he would have good body work connections down there..

[burnsauto]

At the shop I work at now, we did something kind of similar with an FC RX7 (I think it was an 85, first year of the 13B) Had 60k on the odo, guy purchased it brand new for his wife when they first started their business together. It was her birthday, so he had us fix it up and give it a fresh paintjob. It didn't have the damage that yours does (rocker, or the rust problems, but it needed some TLC to get it looking pretty good. We went the extra mile with a few things, repainted some black trim, got the dents out, and had the wheels professionally refinished, and it ran the customer about 3-4k. That didn't include the jams or anything like that, but we tore the car down besides the front glass, and did what we could.

Before
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During
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After
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http://s7.postimg.org/uyp30c097/0702051443a.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/ykuwcz6mj/0702051659.jpg

[deecue]

you can easily do it. I'm from Rockland county, by the palisades mall. if you want someone to do the work you have options. there are many s-chassis shops that can do sr swaps.

cool, good to hear there are other 240 fans in the area and shops to boot. i'll be sure to hit you up for recs if it goes down this path and in this area..

if not you'll have to bang out the swap in one weekend. that is the longest part. not sure how you'd get body and paint done without it being in a body shop for at least a week. good luck finding someone to do the body in westchester.

definitely willing to give it time.. even 6 months if i had to.. but it would be hard to push it much past that.. i've let her sit in a shop for 5 weeks before at a time and gotten by so would just need to re-evaluate my day-to-day.. even if that means having the work done out of county/state..

i understand that this is tough without the experience or knowledge. selling and moving onto another car might have to be something you consider

i think that's a huge part of the intimidation with going through with this.. not looking to be taken advantage of and i'd want the work to be done properly/respectfully.. at the same time don't have the confidence to thoroughly check against someone else's work.. slowly accepting the possibility of moving on becoming a reality, but glad to hear both sides of everyone's input.. the knowledge tank here is amazing..

[deecue]

Start with quality body work and paint. This will likely cost you $5k+ It's just a shame that it's your only car. Winter driving will bring back the rust in a few years.


Thank you for bringing this up.. That's a big concern of mine.. I'd hate to go through all of this just to have the body destroyed again because of all the salt and brine up here.. Granted, the car has only been in NY for a little under 5 years now, but it's ridiculous to see how horrible these roads are and the life they can suck out of cars.. I have the same hesitation with owning a bike in this area purely from the number of potholes.. At least that would be my joy rider though and I'm not interested in just owning the 240 for sunday afternoon summer days..

So would a solid body treatment, rust fix, and chassis spray down give me any assurance to keep it's life going similar to a new-ish car? i.e. for at least 10 years or so?


I wouldn't spend too much on the interior. Only the seats are in really bad shape. I would replace them with ones in better condition. If you can't find any, you can have them reupholstered from around $1k. The steering wheel looks pretty worn too.

I think if I'm going to go through with this, I'd like to replace the carpet too.. The seats are well, yeah, you see the pics.. I can sit on them fine (and i do) but many the dreams I've had about sitting on some new interior.. But you're right, luckily there's still a lot of good things left.. The dash isn't cracked, the door panels aren't terrible. All the electrical stuff is mostly good - power windows/mirrors, lights and signals, a/c switches, a kickin tape player as seen in the pics.. ;)

Just take into consideration that a swapped engine might cause difficulty getting your emission testing done. I'm not familiar with your local laws.

If I can make it to January, I'll hit 25 yrs and emissions shall be no longer.. Only safety inspection at that point in NY.. Just have to take in to consideration federal EPA regulations at that point..


I would leave sourcing the engine to the shop. In my opinion, a complete half-cut is the best choice.

So like a low-mileage half-cut rather than a new one? (thanks google for informing this newb about what kind of engine that was)

Now would be a good time to inspect and replace any worn suspension and braking components. Things like pad, rotors, bushings, springs and shocks to maintain the car's safety, comfort and practicality. Have the shop doing the engine swap do this work as well for your convenience.

Agreed.. Luckily, I had all 4 pads/rotors/calipers replaced during the past year.. And I think the tie rods were also replaced about 2 years ago as well.. So it's a start.. But definitely want the whole suspension to be looked in to very carefully and thought about if I went through with a swap..

Forgot to mention the rims. Again, you could either refinish the ones you have, find another set in better condition or get aftermarket wheels. The latter might be the best choice. You could have winter tires on your original wheels and not worry about them getting damaged by the snow and salt. Then all-season or summer tires on a set of aftermarket wheels for the rest of the year.

So you're the second person to have recommended replacing the wheels.. I like the idea of using the current set for winter tires (hadn't thought of that).. But besides the obvious cosmetic improvement, would I benefit anything at all structurally/safety/reliability/etc for replacing my wheels?

[deecue]

Just remember, that when a 16 year old girl texting rear ends you, your car is still worth 2.5k no matter what engine is in it, no matter how dent free your body is, or how old your paint is.

Damn, that's a hell of an argument.. That side of it did not even cross my mind..

Case in point - last winter we had a little bit of snowfall one day and I rarely take the 240 out in any of it.. So I took my wife's '98 honda accord to work and on the way I see someone in front of me lose control and spin 180 on top of the double yellow. I counter cut the wheel without slamming on the brakes so I could gradually drift in to the 2 month built-up snow bank on the side (which I did successfully). Just as I was about to take pride in that moment, an out state rental car who's never seen snow before in their life slams straight in to the rear corner lodging me out of the snow bank just to hit my front end a second time. Fun.

Point is, as much as you can control these things, you can't control anyone else. And this area up here is sometimes just risky as hell with who you get on the road..

On the plus side, while it is indeed my daily driver, I should also preface that with the fact that I put maybe ~6k in mileage a year on her. No long trips or drives out of state. Just around town and the 8 mi one way to work each day. So it does see some limited exposure.. Anything can happen at any time though as the story above illustrates..

[deecue]

If you were to buy, say, a 350Z for that same $12k, you would be insured for nearly it's entire value

Riiiiiight - of course and a great point - to be honest it could potentially be more than $12k available to purchase the other vehicle because I just realized I'm not taking in to account any money that I could potentially get for the 240 if I were to sell it.. I literally have no idea how much that would eventually go for in the end but it could mean an offset basis of 13,14, or 15k to put in to a new (used) vehicle rather than going through with repairs because of the sale itself.


Also, full disclosure:

I did in-fact post the car for sale Thursday night on both the nissanclub.com forums and nicoclub.com forums. It only took a single day of visible distress of finally posting those that my wife (hell of a woman) convinced me to hop on here Friday night to get more opinions on reconsidering that previous night's action. Just in case someone from here comes across those threads and wants to call me out on it.. Still deciding whether I should just take them down off those sites or if I'm even able to do that without being a mod..

Thanks again everyone.. Still making it through the responses a little bit at a time..

[deecue]

If the rust is THAT bad on the rear lower portion, Id really hate to see what the front shock towers are looking like, aswell as the floor boards and frame rails. I think your first stop honestly needs to be a body shop and get a solid estimate. I noticed the hatch was rusted also under the spoiler. Like most are saying you maybe better off getting this one painted and buying another thats already swapped and keep this one inside and what not. But that rust really scares me.

The rust on that rear passenger side corner panel is about as bad as you can see in the pics. It is the visibly worst area across the entire car from what I can see. The area right under the spoiler is probably the second worst spot I can find - especially around where the bolts are. You have to lift the trunk open at the lip and not pull up on the spoiler itself. The frame rails are surprisingly pretty solid black and the car goes up on a lift without any issues afaik. The floor boards had some rust on the underside at the end of last winter (not see-through bad, but i noticed my mats were getting wet on certain post melting days). So I had them spray patched from underneath to keep the tire kick-up from affecting the interior. I have a feeling this is going to be an issue again this winter and would need to be addressed from a comfort and safety standpoint.

I totally hear ya that the rust is indeed scary and is something I know nothing about. Regarding the front shock towers - I don't know off hand. My local mechanic hasn't mentioned it to me, but I haven't been under there to check it out myself where as I was just under there looking at the frame rails earlier today..

[racepar1]

Honestly, if you're not a car guy just let it go. I know it's your first car and it holds a lot of sentimental value, but the bottom line is that to do what you want in your budget you really NEED to be a car guy. You NEED to be able to source a lot of the parts yourself. You NEED to be able to do a lot of the minor work yourself. Since you're not a car guy I feel that all this talk about 180sx seats, aftermarket steering wheels, SR20's, suspension upgrades, etc... are not really what you're looking to do. You want the car in as close to brand new showroom condition as possible. You want a TRUE restoration, not so much a resto-mod build. To go that route you're talking about at least a $20k price tag, and that's on the very lowest of the low end. Bodywork alone will likely eat up almost all of your budget, MAYBE you could squeeze in most of the interior as well. That rust on the quarter panel is a VERY bad sign. I'm more than willing to bet that the deeper you dig into that car, the more rust you will find. It simply doesn't make any sense to do what you're talking about unless you're a REAL car guy with a REAL love (and knowledge) for 240sx's.

[deecue]

start with the rust and some new seats

Fix all the rust, get some new seats, repaint it?

Ok, so please forgive the bit of ignorance here on my part, but I've got to ask.. How does a body shop fix the "rust"? Since this seems to be one of the largest components with owning a car of this age and especially in this area for the foreseeable next few years and the fact that it's a common point on this thread - what in fact happens during the repair? Are new molds made and welded in? Are new panels obtained somehow from parted out 240's? If even patched up, can the rust just begin to spread again like cancer at those joints? If found, can major parts of the frame or foundation be safely repaired/replaced and relied on for another decade? I just really have no idea of what's involved.

Also, it seems to be that the big next step is to start speaking with body shops for estimates on this. What if those unfortunately don't come back within my budget? What then? Is the car worthless? Would it even be sell-able? Do I seriously consider the viking funeral option at that point?

Every time I get under my car or pop the hood or just take it for a drive it seems crazy to think it's not worth anything.. And it doesn't look *that* bad to my eye. But I could also be a little out of touch with reality not being as mechanically inclined as I should be and potentially a bit biased as it's been my only car ever..

[Matej]

If the rust is only on those rear arches that is not too fatal, since someone can probably cut that out relatively easily. The real worrisome rust would be underneath the car.
Your rocker panels look fine (other than the huge dent along the passenger side), and those are usually one of the worst rust spots on the car.

[racepar1]

Ok, so please forgive the bit of ignorance here on my part, but I've got to ask.. How does a body shop fix the "rust"? Since this seems to be one of the largest components with owning a car of this age and especially in this area for the foreseeable next few years and the fact that it's a common point on this thread - what in fact happens during the repair? Are new molds made and welded in? Are new panels obtained somehow from parted out 240's? If even patched up, can the rust just begin to spread again like cancer at those joints? If found, can major parts of the frame or foundation be safely repaired/replaced and relied on for another decade? I just really have no idea of what's involved.

Also, it seems to be that the big next step is to start speaking with body shops for estimates on this. What if those unfortunately don't come back within my budget? What then? Is the car worthless? Would it even be sell-able? Do I seriously consider the viking funeral option at that point?

Every time I get under my car or pop the hood or just take it for a drive it seems crazy to think it's not worth anything.. And it doesn't look *that* bad to my eye. But I could also be a little out of touch with reality not being as mechanically inclined as I should be and potentially a bit biased as it's been my only car ever..

Repairing the rust would involve cutting out all the rusted areas of the car and replacing those panels with either new or good used panels. NOTHING is un-repairable as long as you're willing to pay for it. Not just any body shop would do to do the MAJOR rust repairs that this car would need. You would have to go to the BEST body shop you could possibly find in your area and be willing to pay whatever they wanted. 99% of body shops would just do the minimum, slap some bondo and undercoat over the rest. Shopping around for the best price would only get you in that situation.

I wouldn't pay jack shit for a rusty 200k S13, so in my opinion, yes, the car would be nearly worthless. Maybe you could get a few hundred bucks out of it from someone who wanted to part it out.

I seriously don't understand the sentimental attachment. I would part that thing out and move on. Of course you're talking to a guy who has owned like 20 cars in the same amount of time that you've owned that one...

[10psitx]

The car clearly has intrinsic value to you...so with that understanding and your budget, you have 3 basic choices...

1, Buy another car for "daily" use and spend the next year or so learning about the car and how to do rust repair, buy all the equipment to carry out, learn how to rebuild an engine, learn how to rebuild the suspension, research and purchase all the necessary parts to carry out this project. This will end up costing close or just over your budget.

2, Buy another daily, Then Pay a shop to do rust repair, prep and re-paint, Pay a shop to rebuild your suspension and engine, pay a shop to replace or repair the interior - This will surpass your budget but if its done in phases you can save up to cover the cost.

3 Sell this car and use your budget to buy a Daily suited to your needs and save up for a better chassis from the southern states, take some time and learn about the car and slowly build one for yourself.

As one poster put it...you really need to be a car guy to take on a project of this magnitude on your budget given the result you're looking for. If you look on nico forums there is a build thread that spans 10 years, the guy started from exactly your level and taught himself along the way. He still sent the car out for body work...i believe the cost so far is over 20k and counting?...This car will be a museum piece though if he ever completes it. It is by FAR the most inclusive and detailed build i have seen to date, It puts every other build to shame...I'm not suggesting you take the same route but it gives you an idea of what it takes to get the car back or as close to OEM...A lot of what was done will reflect what you will need to do. I do suggest you read it though.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/m-tr4nch-s-restoration-build-thread-56k-death-t330340-660.html

[RickBlaine]

Excellent thread and opinions here....!

Monkey Wrench time: I also own a 1991, it was my buddy's car bought brand new- I was his ride to the Skokie, IL dealer back in 1991. He moved to salt-free Seattle a month later, got married, and started his career. Then in 2010, he gave me the 240sx and I drove it back to Chicago. Why?

My buddy was a dentist....every 2-3 years his dental buddies bought new BMWs or Audis or whatever. He drove that Nissan every day and they laughed at him- until it started to be rather cool. The amount of money he would have spent on a new BMW? He invested it- every month. Wound up with over $400,000 in the 19 years he would have made BMW payments. What did he do with the $400,000? He doubled it in 2013 in Seattle real estate.

Since I brought the car back, I have one rule- do NOT drive it in snow/road salt. I have a trusty Honda Accord for that- I wrench that car, but really, there is not much to wrench as it is flawless. But rust? No rust on the Nissan- I simply will NOT drive it in the snow once the salt trucks come out.

My point is that you are young- and dropping $12,000-$20,000 on the Nissan THIS year may not be what is best for you.

You did not mention which field of work you are in? Is it a growing field with a good salary? Or are you just scraping by?

Perhaps restoring it 10 years from now would be a better choice- you will have more money if you invest the $12,000 now. The car's value will certainly go up 10 years from now- these cars are iconic.

But please don't restore it and then drive it in the road salt- that is not a wise investment- that is downright foolish. Don't spend $12K in your life now to begin corroding it now. If you restore it- be committed, no more road salt....ever!

Or maybe a couple thousand dollars now to spruce it up a bit and just keep driving it is what is in order- if your father-in-law does not come through for you.

My buddy Chris, the dentist, is a millionaire because he and his wife lived below their means for 20 years and invested their money. Now he buys Teslas, GT-R Skylines, and a Mercedes....

Sentimental value is important, and powerful. But what are the goals you and the wife have? Do you have kids? Thinking of college? Braces?

A neighbor had a 1968 Camaro for years and years. It was not in good shape. When his son was ten years old, he started to express an interest. So for 6 years (yes, six years) they spent time working on it, researching it, and doing everything except paint and bodywork. It was a great bonding project.

Whatever you do, good luck. Just please don't fix it up and then drive it in road salt.

[racepar1]

Whatever you do, good luck. Just please don't fix it up and then drive it in road salt.

THIS^^^

If you're going to invest the kind of time and money necessary to restore the car it absolutely CANNOT be your daily driver. You NEED another car to beat on and not give much of a fuck about. It makes no sense whatsoever to do the work and continue driving the car through salt and snow.

[ixfxi]

Besides the car being "too far gone" in my opinion, the other problem you are going to find is that a multitude of parts are no longer available.

Combine the above with what Aron said, that any competent body shop is going to charge an arm and two legs to restore that car = NOT WORTH IT.

This is coming from someone who spend 10 years restoring my car. I am lucky I started 10 years ago, because nowadays it would be an impossibility.

[Toomuchboost12]

I love this thread.

Fix all the rust, get some new seats, repaint it?

So glad to see someone taking care of an S chassis the right way. this is a rare sight .

[turboshoebox]

this is a rare sight .

Plenty of people doing it right. just not a post about someones life long car that isn't a gear head needing help on doing so

[KiLLeR2001]

This thread breaks my heart. Aron and Mike have pretty much nailed it, but I will say this...

Take it to a body shop and get a full-on quote for a complete job. Rust removal, body work, complete repaint etc. If you do decide to go through with it; when you get your car back together and on the road, see how it makes you feel dropping whatever amount of money you did to get it to that point. If the money spent justifies your feelings and you feel that "flame" all over again from your younger days, that is when you get to make the decision if you want to keep going with it.

But that's also where you as a non-car guy will have to morph into a car guy. You will do this by continuing to come onto forums like this one, google searching, and pounding 15+ years of information about this car into your head. Then going out to your car and physically working with what you learned and researched. Trial and error. You'll make mistakes, you'll waste money, but you will definitely learn. You will never feel as much enjoyment from your car as you would knowing that you are capable of doing a good chunk of the work yourself. Not only that, but when people ask you questions about your car you don't have to say things like "Oh I'm not sure about that, let me call my mechanic (about my own car.)"

Of course, if you get all the body work done, repainted nicely, fresh set of wheels etc and you feel disgusted at the money you "wasted" on it, then it would be time to sell it to someone else and move on. 2015 Nissan Leaf awaits you.

ps, if you don't have a dedicated garage spot for it, don't even bother.

[wkpainter]

Keep it, put it on jack stands. Buy a newer car that you can safely drive a family around in (if you want a family). If you have a son (or interested daughter), you can learn and rebuild the car together, learn something together, and have an amazing time bonding. you can then gift said car to your child, and it will mean something to them. Or if when you have a family (if you want one) and you need to get away from them, go tinker in your garage on the car you've had since you were sixteen. I wouldn't spend any money paying someone else to fix it. it is not worth the investment.

[ixfxi]

Take it to a body shop and get a full-on quote for a complete job. Rust removal, body work, complete repaint etc. If you do decide to go through with it; when you get your car back together and on the road, see how it makes you feel dropping whatever amount of money you did to get it to that point. If the money spent justifies your feelings and you feel that "flame" all over again from your younger days, that is when you get to make the decision if you want to keep going with it.

The word "restoration" is relative. Most body shops are designed for just that: a *basic* paint job. Full restorations are usually out of the question, too much time/labor/cost. It would need to be justified. This does not mean 10k, this means tens of thousands of dollars for a full restoration (assuming parts are available, which they are not).

For most people, a restored 240SX has no meaning. Even to me, a stock 240SX is... boring. I would never want a stock car as its only adequate. The stock brakes and 15" wheel setup suck. The suspension is... OK, kinda. Open diff sucks, viscous sucks less. Exhaust note sucks. Engine (KA24E) sucks, KA24DE is... acceptable, barely, by modern standards. Lighting is antiquated as well. Interior is nice, although the seats are horrible. S14 seats are beter.

Some cars are worth restoring 100% accurately, this is not one of them. There is a reason why every 240SX I have laid eyes on are modified. The better cars are... well, modified with better parts. Thats the difference between a good car and a junk pile, the choice of parts and methods used to maintain the car.


But that's also where you as a non-car guy will have to morph into a car guy.

ps, if you don't have a dedicated garage spot for it, don't even bother.

Facts:
- You will need a very capable garage, with good power and lighting. 220v preferable.
- You will need a very sufficient quantity of tools. Majority of mechanics go into debt with Snap-On at this point.
- You will need a very extensive knowledge of all the facets of a car: electrical, mechanical, HVAC, engine, computer & tuning, plumbing, etc.
- You will need to replace the majority of old, rusty, worn out fasteners. You will not be installing worn drain plugs and stretched or stripped bolts.

I can say with great confidence that I have walked down this path with my own restoration projects, and that with all the tools and supplies I am able to restore more cars. Time will tell though. I will say that I know a great deal of individuals who have attempted the above and failed. I've seen numerous cars get parted out mid-restoration as the owner lost interest, lack of funds, or the ultimate killer: got married and/or had kids.

[Croustibat]

Honestly, if you're not a car guy just let it go. I know it's your first car and it holds a lot of sentimental value, but the bottom line is that to do what you want in your budget you really NEED to be a car guy. You NEED to be able to source a lot of the parts yourself. You NEED to be able to do a lot of the minor work yourself. Since you're not a car guy I feel that all this talk about 180sx seats, aftermarket steering wheels, SR20's, suspension upgrades, etc... are not really what you're looking to do. You want the car in as close to brand new showroom condition as possible. You want a TRUE restoration, not so much a resto-mod build. To go that route you're talking about at least a $20k price tag, and that's on the very lowest of the low end. Bodywork alone will likely eat up almost all of your budget, MAYBE you could squeeze in most of the interior as well. That rust on the quarter panel is a VERY bad sign. I'm more than willing to bet that the deeper you dig into that car, the more rust you will find. It simply doesn't make any sense to do what you're talking about unless you're a REAL car guy with a REAL love (and knowledge) for 240sx's.


That, exactly.
Although 20k$ price tag ? I think you can easily triple that.

OP, your car is done. Interior is gone, rust ate the body, sun backed the paint and plastics, and you want an engine swap.

First thing to know about engine swap is that all sellers are going to tell you the engine have low mileage and well maintained. Which is a lie of course, but exactly what the buyer wants to hear.

If you could do some things by yourself, you could shave off some money, but even that would not cut down cost much.

a random engine swap is going to be in the 3-5K range. If you want to make it reliable, you need a full teardown and rebuild. Throw in forged pistons and rods, and a new turbo too because it will be knackered, add the usual supporting mods, and your budget is long gone.

handling wise, you are going to need changing all bushes, either with OEM bushes or ball joint aftermarket suspension arms (DONT use PU or "harder bushes"). Maybe dampers and harder springs, or coilovers. Or you could just buy front & rear full suspension kits, with new knuckes that correct OEM design errors, it is a bit expensive, but not that much.

There are 2 points in bigger wheels: 1/ fitting bigger brakes, 2/fitting larger or cheaper rubber.


Honestly, considering the sorry state of the car, not only is it not worth it at all, but don't expect to have any shop do the work in less than 6 month / a year. But before that, you will have to find good shops, and that won't come easy either.

And as said before, at the end of the day it will only be a 240sx worth nothing.

Sell it to a kid that will make a drift missile out of it and break it; use your money for a better car. It is time to leave your past behind. Of course it does not mean you have to buy a diesel estate... you grew up, you have money. Use it on a nicer car and keep your memories from that one.

These cars are terrible when stock ... i don't know how you guys like them. We get CA18DET in it in stock form, and the car still suck when stock, because nothing is good except somewhat the engine.

[ixfxi]

i will gladly sell my car to a kid that can make a drift missile out of it. as long as that kid has 250k.