Project Twin Turbo KA in a S14: Part II

[heinekenns]

Project Twin Turbo KA in a S14: Part I (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=51728)
Almost everything is finished and I have been working furiously to get everything running before classes start on Monday. When I started to finally bolt parts on, I quickly realized I did not have the space to fit some of my original plans. I nixed the external wastegate idea (as much as I wanted to hang that big'ol Tial of the mani with external dump) - there was no space to really place it the way I wanted, and using the internal gates was simpler (although I did have to redrill and tap holes in the compressor housing to put the stock actuators after rotating the housings). The downpipe was a bit of a nightmare trying to merge the two whilst avoiding the steering rack, brake booster, and transmission all while lining up with a 3 inch exhuast in the stock location. I tried to fit the DSM core IC, but decided to use a smaller griffin core that I welded custom end tanks onto. Also, the location of the inlets of the compressors resulted in a blow through maf. The lower turbo inlet is directly behind the power steering pump and I felt a little lazy about making a complicated dual inlet pipe. I will test it for right now with a vortech fmu, while I wire in the emanage and fab up the fuel rail for the dsm injectors. I tried to use as many stock parts as I could from the 300zx ( my reasoning was that if they are reliable for 100k in a stock car, then I have less to worry about breaking if they are on my car). So, stock banjo fittings and coolant lines for the turbos, stock actuators, oem fittings and recircs, and everything else I could pilfer off the vg engines for the Project VG30DETT in a S14: Part I (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=31379) . Here are a few really late night pics.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/Fronton.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/Topdown.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/TTmani.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/TTmaniinstalled.jpg
Give me your comments and questions. Thanks
- Nick

[Var]

Give me your comments and questions. Thanks
- Nick


You're a beast

[Steeles]

umm.... wow.... A+++++++++++++ for workmanship :) looks like you got some hours in that. I question the need for twins on a KA but hey your doing it and looks like you got alot figured out and close to done! get us better pics!

[95Blue240sx]

yeah, i too question the twins. it does look like fun thought, nice work.

[mrmephistopheles]

does the hood close? are you planning on routing the charge air together before or in the intercooler?

[UcanTry]

im just curious on what you got done internally to the motor, and what fuel management

[Var]

any ceramic coating getting done? do you anticipate major heat soak?

[heinekenns]

Had a chance to finally drive the car yesterday. I was relieved to find that there was no coolant or oil leaks in all the lines to and from the distribution blocks. I took it for a quick spin around and it drives and idles like the stock car. When I got on it and it began to build boost, it would buck and studder hard, but I still have a few things to do before I drive again (ie. adjust spark plug gap and fix vacuum/boost leak in the intake manifold). I have better pics coming soon as I can get back to the shop to drive it home.

mrmephistopheles, yeah, the hood closes, and the top turbo actually rests even with the top of the valve cover. I did not realize until later but in pic #1, the mani and turbos were tilted up because a coupler was wedged between the bottom turbo and the engine mount. I fabricated a collecter for the two charge pipes that joins the two hot pipes just before entering the IC on the driver side.

UCanTry, nothing is done internally to the engine - stock bottom end. I never set out to break any HP records with the setup, just to try something different and something challenging. For engine managment, I am using a greddy emanage, 450cc injectors.

westboroughpimp, nothing has been ceramic coated. Not really concerned with heat soak either? The IC is huge and everything is very free flowing. The downpipe is 3 inches off of both turbos and collects to a 3.5 inch downpipe. They are wrapped in header wrap as well.

[goofynick6]

Just an update for some...

He rerouted the FMU plumbing that day he got it running and it ran better and he was boosting 5 psi with no troubles.

Unfortunately, yesterday it started acting up, only on boost. We literally tried everything, and the only thing we can think is the code 34 (knock sensor) is causing troubles. We advanced the timing to about 30 degrees (to counteract the knock sensor pulling timing) and it ran great. So perhaps if the code 34 can be eliminated with a better KS or fixing the wiring if damaged, the car will be happy again.

Either way, I know Nick has put a LOT of work into this project and it's definitely something different than the average SR or KAT

:bowdown:

G'job Nick ;)

Peace,
Nick #2

[mrmephistopheles]

mrmephistopheles, yeah, the hood closes, and the top turbo actually rests even with the top of the valve cover. I did not realize until later but in pic #1, the mani and turbos were tilted up because a coupler was wedged between the bottom turbo and the engine mount. I fabricated a collecter for the two charge pipes that joins the two hot pipes just before entering the IC on the driver side.


Coolness. Sorry I didn't catch this when you replied the other day. I can't wait to see pics of the finished product and maybe a video of it. You plan on doing any dyno pulls once you get the bugs sorted out?

[Zemus]

Yes this motor sounds awesome, I will be very interested in seeing #s on this. Great Job :-D

[Maxtype 240]

I didn't see any info on A/Fs...

Knock sensors are irrelevant past 4k rpm. I'm sure the weight on the exhaust side paired w/ bad engine mounts will cause severe movement/noise, which will affect the KS.

You said you adjusted plug gap - what are you running now?

Jesse

[heinekenns]

mrmephistopheles, yes def. have plans to dyno tune it. I will wait till I get the emanage hooked up and the 450's in to do it though.


I could really really use some help from you KAT guys with my problem that developed. Here goes ... whenever there is heavy load on the engine and it builds more than 1lb of boost, it studders Hard and backfires, like it is hitting a rev limiter. I have a simple Vortech FMU with 8:1 disk right now. Stock injectors, stock s14 maf, TT300zx pump, NGK bk6's and 7's both gapped to .28-.30, stock ignition, timing at 17, 1996 auto ecu in a manual 1996 s14 with all the obdII removed (ie. many obd II codes). It boosted FINE the other day - the next day, I roll on it for the first time and it starts to studder hard when boost comes on. So, to test, we run the codes and there are 11 including 12,13,34 and two for coolant temp shit - the others are obdII things. I replaced MAF with another known good s14 one - ran the same. The turbo setup is a blow through style, so I ran it with the cold pipe disconnected; just NA - using both MAFs and it ran fine even under load like a stock KA. I hooked up artificiall boost to the FMU with the fuel pump on, and it def. raised the pressure - so much so that it shot fuel out of the barb fittings. I tore apart the FMU twice, but not much can go wrong with those - no moving parts. So, its not the fuel pump or the FMU. I replaced the coolant temp sensor for the ecu (not the dash one) and hooked it up - no difference. I replaced the knock sensor - no difference. I replaced the spark plugs and the wires - plugs always looked brown and clean - no difference. Gapped to .28-.30. I grounded the engine better with two 4 gauge wires - no difference. It has 93 octane in it. I did a pressure test on the system and it is very very tight - no leaks what so ever. It feels like an ignition thing - like your on a studder box when it hesitates on boost. For S & G's we bumped the timing up to 30 and it ran like normal - pulled all the way to redline without problems building solid 5-6 lbs. It idled funny, but adding 10 degrees probably would. So Im thinkin maybe one of the codes just pulls tons of timing??? and by adding so much (+10 to stock) the ECU couldnt correct what we did. Does that sound right? Code 34 is back last I checked, so I'm reading up on how to fix that. Any other suggestions? We tested everything we could possibly think of.
Thanks

[andrave]

sorry to hear that it isn't going so well. my project katt is not starting and won't get worked on again for quite some time. You can click the german in my signature to read for an update on that.

[evilimport]

very very cool set-up and very ballsy I might add, ground breaking more like. Good luck on the troubleshooting though, although it looks like a massive headache waiting to happen....

[240Driver39]

hey nick, where are you at now? Im really curious to see it and see how its comin along. I wish both you guys, nicks, were at the car club meeting last night...both workin on some nice projects, wanted to hear some updates.

[proj240sx]

good luck with your unique project man, i would love to see that thing in person.

[heinekenns]

...Just a quick update. I have been driving the TT for a little while now and sorting out any problems that I find. The blow through MAF seems to work fine with the car and it idles like a stock engine. Stock actuators are set to 6-7 lbs and both turbos seem to build equally and effectively. I dont realize full boost (7lbs) until 3400-3600 but power comes on like a large t3/t4 and it pulls harder to redline. If I row through the gears, I can grab 2nd hard and burn the tires for a while. I dont have any doubts that it is probably only as strong as any other KA-T setup running low boost with a larger turbo. THe e-manage works, but Im still relying on the FMU for a little while longer whilst I clean up the vacuum line and hose nightmare - everything in general needs to be cleaned up, shortened and bolted down. I have turned it up to 9lbs a few times, and likewise it feels stronger - I dont really like the bandaid FMU setup, so I will get the e-manage on as soon as possible.
Always happy to answer questions or talk about the setup.
Nick

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/300zx%20recircs%20resized.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/Both%20turbos%20resized.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/Top%20Down%20resized.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nisteven/Twin%20Turbo%20KA/Top%20turbo%20resized.jpg

[s13irdie2]

looks great. keep us updated!!

[BSeay]

Looks awesome man....thinking about visiting the dyno anytime soon? i'm interested to see what kinda numbers it's putting down...

[Flybert]

Are you running without air filters? Looks like it's gonna be hard to route piping to that bottom turbo. Thinking about pulling the PS?

[andrave]

oh yeah???
mine will be running over christmas, if we all pray and cross our fingers!
lol we can have the twin turbo 2.4 liter show down.

[Loofee95SE]

Ur set-up looks awesome, thumps up for workmanship,
However i's really recommend that u heat wrap the Exhaust mani(s) because it very close to the Brake MC. I've seen turbo get hot enough to boil those brake fluid and cought on fire. just my.02
and life must sucks for u if u have to take all that apart...-_-""" . but great job. C

[RedSuns]

damn nick..when are you going to brong this car up to the DC area?

[legin2]

could you possibly make a list of the parts that you are running, and the things you need to do to achieve a clean running twin turbo ka?

nice job man! keep up the good work!

[240Driver39]

got to check this thing out in person and get a ride in it, very impressive, the "cool as hell" factor is there...ka ownage haha.

[Columbo]

I like!!! thats awsome that ur doing somthing different. U do all the fab urself?

[s13dan]

wow i have never seen that done before... i wouldnt think you would need 2 turbos but i like it.

[crioten]

are you worried about stress on the manifold(s)? or are you just going to fix it if it cracks or something?

looks really cool...

id like to see a fully built TT KA, and see how that works out :)

[legin2]

:werd: x 67.5

[Maxtype 240]

[QUOTE=heinekennseverything in general needs to be cleaned up, shortened and bolted down. [/QUOTE]

+1, that'll mitigate your problems plus ease your troubleshooting process.

Keep up the great work!

Jesse

[nigel1]

any new updates?

[90sr]

great set up man, couldnt ask for a better job with that, just clean everything up keep your eye out for leaks and problems, and hope all goes well, congrats man, :bowrofl:

chris

[019]

not really much to update. car's still running well. he hasn't had time to really work on it due to school and such, but hopefully thanksgiving break will give him some free time

[TNathe]

Wow, impressive man. I think you just helped me solve a problem I'm having as far the engine stuttering. It makes sence to sence after 4000rpm the KS doesn't matter and that's about when my car cleans up and runs decent. Great work!

[MELLO*SOS]

First off thats a great looking setup. Congrats & hope it's as fun to drive as it looks. I'm curious if you got code 34 taken care of, and what else has been done since your last update?

Now not to threadjack, but I had to comment on this..

Wow, impressive man. I think you just helped me solve a problem I'm having as far the engine stuttering. It makes sence to sence after 4000rpm the KS doesn't matter and that's about when my car cleans up and runs decent. Great work!

I found this thread on 'code 34' search too. My car runs horribly from ~2000 to ~4000 but good from 5-6k. I have a code 34 too. Hope you solve your problem!