SR20DET swap cranks, but no start

[dreimers]

I have a type x sr20det swapped into a s14. It has 550injectors, z32 maf, s15 bb t28, a wiring specialities harness.
I have checked for fuel and spark.
Have both.
Checked timing and set per write ups.
Good battery.
The car is cranking, but not starting now.
A friend and I got it to start for a few seconds and then it died out. If we kept feathering the gas it stayed running for a couple of minutes.
I have searched and searched and all of the ones I have found either don't have a solution to the problem or it was a wiring issue.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Prok0]

I have a type x sr20det swapped into a s14. It has 550injectors, z32 maf, s15 bb t28, a wiring specialities harness.
I have checked for fuel and spark.
Have both.
Checked timing and set per write ups.
Good battery.
The car is cranking, but not starting now.
A friend and I got it to start for a few seconds and then it died out. If we kept feathering the gas it stayed running for a couple of minutes.
I have searched and searched and all of the ones I have found either don't have a solution to the problem or it was a wiring issue.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Have you checked the motorset to ensure its got decent compression?

And when you refer to checking timing, have you checked physical cam timing as well as the CAS timing? Has the head ever been off that motor before?

If it runs while feathering the gas your timing could be a bit off and the IACV could be damaged/not functioning properly possibly, or maybe there are a bunch of vacuum leaks.

[dreimers]

I rebuilt the entire motor. had it down to just the rods and crank. I set the timing per the FSM and rechecked it again when i couldnt get the engine to start at first. Dowel pins set at 10 and 12. After i rechecked, it started and then died right away. Thats when the feathering came in to keep it going. Now havent touch the timing or anything else, other than putting some ngk 6 coppers ins to get a hotter spark. Had ngk7 irridiums when it started. Figured the 6's wouldnt hurt. I know im getting alot of fuel. 550's and a walbro. I checked for vaccum leaks, couldnt find one. Re-tighten all my couplers, just in case. Nothing, just cranks...

[dreimers]

So no body knows what goin on?

[jr_ss]

Do you have a tune for the 550's and a Z32 MAF? If not, I suggest you contact enthalpy or JWT and get one coming. You're going to have a hard time getting the car to run right if you have a factory ECU and those upgrades on it.


Why don't you put everything back to stock if you can and get it running that way first. Then "upgrade" to your upgrades, when you have all the pieces of the puzzle, assuming you're lacking the main ingredient.

[sleighty93]

if you don't have a tune for the maf and injectors it won't run the ecu had no idea whats going on i built an sr a while back had about the same setup and started it before i had my tune and i had to do the same thing just feather it so it would run for a minute for shits n gigs any upgrades are pointless without the tune

[240SXK]

z32 maf + those injectors on stock ecu that poor ecu won't do anything, surprised it even fired up. been there done that with the same exact result. get a nistune or standalone, bring it to someone who can adjust the MAF scaling and injectors and if your timing/cas timing is good you're gold

[dreimers]

So it shouldn't even start then with the upgrades I have done? Ok. I can't bring it back to stock, I don't have any of the parts. I built it specifically with these parts and never had the stock parts. So I should tune my Emanage that I have and then it should start w no problems?

[jr_ss]

Send your factory ECU to Martin at Enthaply and sell the "E-manage" to someone else. You'll thank me later.

[dreimers]

I've already talked to Martin. He said that it will work. That there is better out there, but it'll work. I already have the software, p-n-p harness, the emanage itself, and the cable to hook it up to my laptop. So I'll be sticking with it for a while still. I know Martin does a great job!

[dreimers]

if you don't have a tune for the maf and injectors it won't run the ecu had no idea whats going on i built an sr a while back had about the same setup and started it before i had my tune and i had to do the same thing just feather it so it would run for a minute for shits n gigs any upgrades are pointless without the tune

So when you let off the gas it would die out? That is what mine was doing.

[dreimers]

So I think I have figured my problem out. I was doing some checking. Pulled the valve cover to recheck the CAS alignment. Pulled it out, while out i spun it around with the coil packs and spark plugs in. It was only firing cyl. 1 and 3. Swapped around the coil packs, all good, Checked the coil harness for any problems, all checked out good. I know the engine harness is good. Brand new from Yury at Wiring Specialties. CAS was working good too. So I have narrowed it down to the Igniter. Got it on order, should have it Monday and will update once i get it.

[dreimers]

So I replaced my igniter and it was still getting hot. Traced the wiring back to the ECU. Replaced my ECU and the igniter doesnt get hot anymore, so problem solved on that one. I still can not get my engine running. I know it wont run well with the upgrades i got, but I need to get it running so I can get it tuned. Any one?

[cotbu]

redo mechanical timing, aka cas install, once you are sure its correct. you can forget about it.
if your injectors are not stock, prime the fuel system then remove the fuel pump fuse, start the engine with full throttle. After the engine is running put the fuse back in.

if a base tune doesn't eliminate the starting, running issue you have more problems, and aren't ready to be tuned.
Sent from a Highly Boosted Note 4!!!

[dreimers]

if a base tune doesn't eliminate the starting, running issue you have more problems, and aren't ready to be tuned.

What do ya mean by base tune? What else could it be?

[cotbu]

A base tune is for the injectors and mafs. Those 2 things are important, and you need those things to run correctly, but even without that your engine can still run, like shit but run.

what could it be? timing, boost vacuum leaks wiring/grounds faulty CTS, etc. I would run through everything....., but you are not setup correctly so you can't expect it to purr like a kitten. You could get stock injector and mafs drive it to get tuned, swap the z32 and 550s and call it a day in the life.

Sent from a Highly Boosted Note 4!!!

[bataangpinoy]

TPS ever been fucked with?

[dreimers]

A base tune is for the injectors and mafs. Those 2 things are important, and you need those things to run correctly, but even without that your engine can still run, like shit but run.
what could it be? timing, boost vacuum leaks wiring/grounds faulty CTS, etc. I would run through everything....., but you are not setup correctly so you can't expect it to purr like a kitten. You could get stock injector and mafs drive it to get tuned, swap the z32 and 550s and call it a day in the life.
Sent from a Highly Boosted Note 4!!!

Yeah I dont expect it to run well. Just want it to idle, get up to operating temp and be able to move it like 10-20ft


Checked timing, its on, vacuum leaks...none that I can tell, tested wiring and grounds all checked out good, CTS...dont know....? I unplugged it and tried, still just was cranking.

[dreimers]

TPS ever been fucked with?

Not that Im aware of. I have not messed with it.

[jr_ss]

Anyone local that can let you borrow some stock components.

You don't need it to run to get a tune for it. Once again a ROM tune will solve most of your issues to get it running. Quit being so stubborn.

[dreimers]

Anyone local that can let you borrow some stock components.

You don't need it to run to get a tune for it. Once again a ROM tune will solve most of your issues to get it running. Quit being so stubborn.

No one local that would just let me borrow a bunch of parts.

[dreimers]

redo mechanical timing, aka cas install, once you are sure its correct. you can forget about it.
if your injectors are not stock, prime the fuel system then remove the fuel pump fuse, start the engine with full throttle. After the engine is running put the fuse back in.

if a base tune doesn't eliminate the starting, running issue you have more problems, and aren't ready to be tuned.
Sent from a Highly Boosted Note 4!!!

Tried this and it sounded better, but still did not start. Sounded like it wanted to.

So now I am a loss on what it could be preventing this from starting. I have tested the coil packs, harness, ignitor, wiring harness is a new one from Wiring specialities, swapped ecus, triple checked my timing(exhaust pin at 12 and intake at 10-1030), checked for proper alignment on my CAS, injectors, fuel pump working,checked for vacuum leaks none that i can see.

[daryl337]

Firing order correct in the harness?

I literally just had an issue with this where someone had the pins messed up.
Double check that you have spark on all 4.


Check that compression, and if you have compression, fuel, and spark then it is definitely timing.

[dreimers]

I have check for continuity on that harness and to the ignitor. It does have it.

[dreimers]

Firing order correct in the harness?

I literally just had an issue with this where someone had the pins messed up.
Double check that you have spark on all 4.


Check that compression, and if you have compression, fuel, and spark then it is definitely timing.

pulled the valve cover to check my cas timing. It was good. While i had it out I hook up the coil packs and plugs, spun the cas clockwise and notice that my firing order was 1-2-4-3. Repined to correct order and still nothing.
I have spark, I have fuel, my timing is on. i don't know why this wont start...:confused:

Don't know if this is anything, but after i try cranking the car a few times my negative battery cable gets warm. my batt is just placed into position not tied down or anything

[jr_ss]

Large load demand will heat up the electrical components. Pull your ground at the chassis and clean any corrosion off. How many grounds do you have on the motor to chassis? Add some of its only 2.

Try pulling your spark plugs and seeing if they are soaked.

[dreimers]

Large load demand will heat up the electrical components. Pull your ground at the chassis and clean any corrosion off. How many grounds do you have on the motor to chassis? Add some of its only 2.

Try pulling your spark plugs and seeing if they are soaked.

Thats what i was figuring it is.Cranking the starter for that long. I have cleaned all the grounds and they ohm out at .02. I have the chassis to intake (4gauge), battery to chassis (4 Gauge), block to chassis (8 gauge)

They are not soaked, damp and smell like fuel.

[dreimers]

The only thing that i have not been able to test is my CTS. Could that keep it from starting?

[dreimers]

Did some more testing. I have pinched off the return fuel line, still cranks no start. Noid lighted my injectors they are all getting pulse. How can I check the flow of my injectors? They are new, but might be the problem... Im just at a loss of why its not running...

[dreimers]

Needed some opinions on this list

1) make sure the ECU plug is tightened ALL THE WAY DOWN
2) turn key to ignition on
3) is the red LED on the ecu lit?
4) try to start car
5) does LED turn off while cranking? if yes, go to (7), in no go to (6)
6) CAS isnt reading
7) unplug fuel injectors
8) take an extra fuel injector plug and lengthen the wires by a few feet
9) plug in an injector, then ground out one wire while tapping the other one to power. does it click? if yes, go to (11) no? go to (10)
10) keep tapping the wire till the injector clicks. if it doesnt, its trash
11) take a noid light or LED from radioshack, plug into injector clip and crank motor. make sure you have pulse
12) pull a coilpack, throw a sparkplug in and crank the car. ensure spark
13) make sure ECT sensor is plugged in and making good connection
14) make sure that orange start signal wire is properly connected and getting power during start only
15) make sure fuel lines are not connected backwards. regulator on fuel rail goes to the line that DOES NOT have the filter

pass these tests, it will run.

anything else that anyone can think of that needs to be done?

[dreimers]

finally got my car running. I did a compression test to it and it was
140 cyl.1
130 cyl.2
130 cyl.3
120 cyl.4
The engine has been sitting for about a year before it started. I poured about a cap full of oil into the cylinders and got it to start. It was idiling great at about 1000 rpms or so. i havent messed with any of the idle adjustment at this point. No stranges sounds or anything. After about 3 minutes it died out on its own, now it wont restart. Just cranks. Any ideas on the next step?

[Kingtal0n]

finally got my car running. I did a compression test to it and it was
140 cyl.1
130 cyl.2
130 cyl.3
120 cyl.4
The engine has been sitting for about a year before it started. I poured about a cap full of oil into the cylinders and got it to start. It was idiling great at about 1000 rpms or so. i havent messed with any of the idle adjustment at this point. No stranges sounds or anything. After about 3 minutes it died out on its own, now it wont restart. Just cranks. Any ideas on the next step?

do a boost leak test by filling the plumbing to 15psi and find the leaks

[dreimers]

I'll try that I didnt think a boost leak would cause the car to just die out like that? It wasn't idling roughly or anything.

[dreimers]

I got my engine to run again by pouring a little oil down the cylinders. Ran great for literally 5 minutes. i was timing it. Then just shut off like someone turn the key. Tried to restart and it just cranked. Waited a day. still just cranked. Poured a little oil in the cylinders started up. Ran for 5 minutes and then shut off just the same. I am thinking it could be my rings, but why would it run for 5 minutes and just shut off like that? Thats the only reason i haven't ripped the motor out yet

[S14kouki805]

Who assembled your short block? It sounds like you are losing compression once the oil that you putting into the cylinder burns off.

I would think the rings never seated correctly and you have little or no compression once running for more than a few minutes.

Did you do your compression test dry or while adding oil? Do a new compression test without adding anything. I believe you said this was a new rebuild?

[S14kouki805]

Those compression numbers don't look too great for a fresh rebuild either, they should be more consistent I would think.

[Kingtal0n]

the oil burns off within 30~ seconds so I do not think your oil has anything to do with it. More likely when you pull out the plugs you are disturbing something, wiring, the plugs, coils, a ground maybe, and it starts and run until it warms up. Now warming up does a few things, one of them is the turbo speed (compressor speed) at idle increases as the exhaust heats up. So I am thinking that you have a boost leak and as the compressor starts putting out some real flow at idle speed your boost leak starts to show up and that richens the air/fuel ratio up enough to kill the engine. Verify this by watching your wideband richen up right before the engine dies. (you do have a wideband... ?)

Anyways, none of that matters at all if your compression is not solid across the board. You will never have it running good or making power if you cannot get each cylinder to produce good compression, the same compression, within a few psi of each other. So that is your first priority. Do whatever you need to do to fix that first because nothing else matters until you do. Its really hard to build an sr20det (apparently!) so this is very common problem, an improperly prepared/sized/machined cylinder wall that does not match the style ring that is used is one possibility for your uneven distribution numbers. ANother is that the compression tester itself is inconsistent. So If I was you, I would get a second opinion on the compression, cold, with a good strong battery, and if you still see numbers that are more than a few psi apart you might need to re-try the rebuild or get a stock shortblock before moving on.

Also be more exact with the number. there is no such thing as 110 or 120. It is 110.5 or 123.6 or 143.0005 or something like that. Telling us 110 120 120 130 is the same as telling us nothing.

[S14kouki805]

the oil burns off within 30~ seconds so I do not think your oil has anything to do with it. More likely when you pull out the plugs you are disturbing something, wiring, the plugs, coils, a ground maybe, and it starts and run until it warms up. Now warming up does a few things, one of them is the turbo speed (compressor speed) at idle increases as the exhaust heats up. So I am thinking that you have a boost leak and as the compressor starts putting out some real flow at idle speed your boost leak starts to show up and that richens the air/fuel ratio up enough to kill the engine. Verify this by watching your wideband richen up right before the engine dies. (you do have a wideband... ?)

Anyways, none of that matters at all if your compression is not solid across the board. You will never have it running good or making power if you cannot get each cylinder to produce good compression, the same compression, within a few psi of each other. So that is your first priority. Do whatever you need to do to fix that first because nothing else matters until you do. Its really hard to build an sr20det (apparently!) so this is very common problem, an improperly prepared/sized/machined cylinder wall that does not match the style ring that is used is one possibility for your uneven distribution numbers. ANother is that the compression tester itself is inconsistent. So If I was you, I would get a second opinion on the compression, cold, with a good strong battery, and if you still see numbers that are more than a few psi apart you might need to re-try the rebuild or get a stock shortblock before moving on.

Also be more exact with the number. there is no such thing as 110 or 120. It is 110.5 or 123.6 or 143.0005 or something like that. Telling us 110 120 120 130 is the same as telling us nothing.

Not trying to threadjack but this would mainly have to do with the quality of the work done at the machine shop correct? I'm working on a rebuild right now and I'm just trying to eliminate any possible points of error and avoid a re-rebuild.

[dreimers]

Who assembled your short block? It sounds like you are losing compression once the oil that you putting into the cylinder burns off.

I would think the rings never seated correctly and you have little or no compression once running for more than a few minutes.

Did you do your compression test dry or while adding oil? Do a new compression test without adding anything. I believe you said this was a new rebuild?

The first time i did a compression test it was cold and dry and the results were
70
65
80
70
Which is really low, but freshly put back together motor and not been ran for atleast a year.

Kingtalon,
those are the numbers the gauge was reading. maybe a psi swing either way difference,

[dreimers]

Wouldn't a boost leak like that make the car start to run roughly? My car does not run roughly at all. It runs perfect for 5 minutes never surges, sputters, stutters or anything. That's the only thing that makes me hesitate about a leak of some sort.

[Kingtal0n]

You could do a leakdown test to find out where its going. Make sure the valves are fully closed when you do it. Be thorough.

The way it jumps up and down from 65 to 80, indicates that there is a good chance you need a new shortblock. A leakdown test showing a large % passing the rings would more or less confirm that.

Wouldn't a boost leak like that make the car start to run roughly? My car does not run roughly at all. It runs perfect for 5 minutes never surges, sputters, stutters or anything. That's the only thing that makes me hesitate about a leak of some sort.

Stop trying to guess and do a boost leak test, its practically free and you wont have to guess anymore.


My car does not run roughly at all. It runs perfect for 5 minutes never surges, sputters, stutters or anything.
compression results aside, this sounds like the engine just stops receiving fuel. IF your motor had great compression and you told this to me, i would say your fuel pump is stopping, or the fuel filter is clogging. There are diagnostic tools for all these things; a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail would tell you whether or not this was the problem.

[Kingtal0n]

Not trying to threadjack but this would mainly have to do with the quality of the work done at the machine shop correct? I'm working on a rebuild right now and I'm just trying to eliminate any possible points of error and avoid a re-rebuild.

I estimate that there is approximately a 4% chance of successfully rebuilding an sr20det engine if it is your first time (building an engine). You can triple this percentage to 12% if you used a machine shop that regularly deals with these engines, and they handle the head and block, and you will assemble the shortblock under their directions, and follow their recommendations for oil viscosity and break in procedure etc...

For comparison, if you were to build a chevy engine from 1992 (say an L98 5.7L from a vette) you would have a 67% chance of being successful on the first attempt, and there is a very high chance that the machine shop you used, even half asleep, would get things right, when compared to the odds of the same machine shop in the USA dealing with the sr engine. They are also much more forgiving when it comes to assembly, clearances, break in, and so forth.

[S14kouki805]

I estimate that there is approximately a 4% chance of successfully rebuilding an sr20det engine if it is your first time (building an engine). You can triple this percentage to 12% if you used a machine shop that regularly deals with these engines, and they handle the head and block, and you will assemble the shortblock under their directions, and follow their recommendations for oil viscosity and break in procedure etc...

For comparison, if you were to build a chevy engine from 1992 (say an L98 5.7L from a vette) you would have a 67% chance of being successful on the first attempt, and there is a very high chance that the machine shop you used, even half asleep, would get things right, when compared to the odds of the same machine shop in the USA dealing with the sr engine. They are also much more forgiving when it comes to assembly, clearances, break in, and so forth.

Mmmm, I don't know about those percentages, seems very pessimistic. I know SR's might be a bitch to rebuild but I doubt only roughly 12% of rebuilds are successful.

I hope you're wrong :-/

[omgosh]

Boost leak will not shut off your engine if its already idling lol. And I hope you were joking about the tenth of a PSI on a comp test haha

Every time I had a car that would just die out of nowhere and refuse to turn back on till later it was the CAS, or in one case bad ECU.

[dreimers]

Boost leak will not shut off your engine if its already idling lol. And I hope you were joking about the tenth of a PSI on a comp test haha

Every time I had a car that would just die out of nowhere and refuse to turn back on till later it was the CAS, or in one case bad ECU.


So the cas could be heating up and stopping spark? That is one of the only pieces I have not tested w another part. I will have to try another, before ripping apart the engine. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to re ring the Pistons atleast at some point soon.

[dreimers]

I am in the middle of a rebuild on my Type X SR. I am gonna re-ring the stock pistons, all new bearings, thrust washers, hone the cylinders, and a new head gasket.
Checked the block for straightness, its good. All of my cylinder walls are with in spec and no major gouges. My crank looks good, again no major gouges or scratches.
Anything else I should do or look for?