Make a senior tech feel stupid! Sr20 related

[BeauBrockway]

Ok so I have a 98 black top fresh build. Compression is good. Timing chain installation is good. Cas is spot on. Code 55 in the e5 ecu. I have spark and 47psi fuel pressure. With the plugs pulled and connected to the coils they are sparking. With the fuel rail pulled the injectors are pulsing. The problem is the injector and spark firing at the same exact time for each cylinder. All grounds double checked. This thing won't fire at all not even a back fire. Maf unplugged iv grounded the coil harness and put direct power to the harness I'm scratching my head.


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[Dboyizmlg]

Ok for starters, it's not a 98 black top because you have the E5 ecu.
E5 only came in the 94-96 black top chuki.

Kouki 180sx is the 97-98 (late model black top).

Not sure about your issue with motor not firing up though

[Edwin562]

Ok for starters, it's not a 98 black top because you have the E5 ecu.
E5 only came in the 94-96 black top chuki.

Kouki 180sx is the 97-98 (late model black top).

Not sure about your issue with motor not firing up though

94-96 blacktops - E5
96(late)-98 blacktops- J4

When I first got my swap, it was a 98 blacktop with a E5 and car wasn't running properly, once I acquired a J4 ECU the car ran fine.

[murffy]

check the ohm resistance of the coils, and move them around, this literaly happened to me yesterday, i was getting spark and everything but the signal to my coils was delayed due to resistance, i moved them around and it fired right up, the coil i had on cylinder one was faulty, once i moved it the engine ran but i still had a bit of a hesitation so ill be changing the coils soon. Non the less give that a try, better yet change the coils if you have spares.

[BeauBrockway]

Thanks guys! And it has the heat dibs on the block u thought that was late model black top? Maybe I have the wrong ecu?


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[BeauBrockway]

Fins not dibs


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[OnTheChip]

The injectors and plugs fire at the same time in batch mode during cranking until the ECU syncs up with cylinder 1 and switches to sequential injection. At certain injector pulse widths and RPM they do fire at the same time. The injector closes at the same timing each stroke (10º ATDC exhaust stroke (= 350º BTDC)) so the injector open timing depends on the injector pulse width and RPM.

[TheRealSy90]

Both the chuki and kouki blacktop's have the "cooling fins", and they use different ecu's depending on which chassis they came out of. So you can't use the fins only to determine which engine you may have.

And it's correct that when cranking the injectors fire at the same time until it syncs up, usually by that time it's running already.

[BeauBrockway]

You guys are awesome. It's a prime example of over thinking something. So it very well could be a bad coil?


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[BeauBrockway]

Iv swapped with known good coils. I have blue spark out if all 4 plugs. All of the plugs are wet with gas. But it doesn't even fire a little bit. I know my cas and chains are good. What could it be? I just swapped this from a auto ka to a manual sr. I just plugged in the ecu ground the wires and plugged in the body connector. I ran multiple grounds unplugged the Maf etc it's so strange how it won't even back fire


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[cotbu]

Sounds like timing. I could walk you through how to set ignition timing correctly or you could just search, but I will show you how to verify the ignition timing is off. If it's off, but almost close or if you followed the fsm pictures.
Loosen the Cas bolts rotate the Cas fully one way, snug up at least on bolt. crank the engine, may need a few revolutions but you should get something, if not rotate the Cas the other way fully, crank the engine, if nothing happens you're way off, if it backfires, you were close. Either way you need to set timing correctly though.

Ps this is assuming you didn't forget coil pack or head ground etc.

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[BeauBrockway]

The cam dowl pins are 10 on intake and 12 on exhaust. Cylinder 1 the cam lobes point away from each other. The crank pulley timing marks
" second one in from the left" is lined up with the indicator. Cas is lined up with the dot on the right you slide it in, the cam hear rotates clockwise lining up with the second dot. I have pictures of everything I'm doing. I agree with all you guys but I feel that I'm doing everything required but yet it's so far off not even a fire. Iv rotated in both ways and it never try's to fire


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[Kingtal0n]

If you have compression, spark, and fuel.... the only thing left is ignition timing. pretty much.

I would have someone crank and rotate that CAS like the knowledgeable tech above told you to try.
(check the coilpack ground as was mentioned as well)

this thread already contains everything you need

[TheRealSy90]

I thought that when setting mechanical timing, the crank is set at 15 btdc? Shouldn't that be the second mark from the right? Due to the direction of rotation. Haven't done it in a while.

[BeauBrockway]

I agree but yet I'v done everything. Iv voltage dropped the coil pack harness. Went of the fsm to set timing I'm using every resource and not any closer. Iv been a senior tech for Nissan for 6 years and am experienced with timing I know to not skip any step and understand it's all in the details. I think it's something more then just the cas being a tooth off. I have pictures to prove all steps it's done correctly. I'm thinking a bad ecu at this point


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[BeauBrockway]

Maybe that's the issue me not understanding where tdc is rookie
Move lol


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[TheRealSy90]

Ok, found an old post where I knew what I was talking bout haha, yep, 15 btdc is the second mark from the RIGHT side of the crank pulley. Also a good step-by-step setup for mechanical timing :)

It does not matter where the colored links are when setting timing like he said it is only for initial assembly. As long as you are at 15° before TDC on the crank pulley (second mark from the right), the exhaust cam dowel goes straight up in relation to the cylinder head (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=cylinder+head) (the motor sits slightly tilted in the bay), with 20 chain PINS between the cam gear dots. Then you install the chain tensioner and CAS/Distributor. The CAS is set to the first mark and should rotate to the second mark when fully installed. Make sure you crank the motor with the CAS unplugged so that it will not start and the tensioner will take the slack out of the chain.


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[cotbu]

That's ignition timing, 15deg btdc. Not top dead center, on compression stroke, for Cas install.

Usally if you install the Cas before the chain tensioner, (slack taken out) this problem happens.
The no start, no backfire thing, xd!

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[BeauBrockway]

It's not timing it's something else. Iv done everything


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[cotbu]

Fuel, spark, air, compression, and timing!
Maybe too much of one of those or all of those!

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[cotbu]

Let one of the guys walk you through an initial setup.
Plms has a good one too.
http://plmsdevelopments.com/
My bad you at least have a running engine for that plms link.

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[BeauBrockway]

Mechanical and ignition timing is correct. Maybe a flood issue?


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[TheRealSy90]

I wasn't talking about ignition timing in my post either, but mechanical...

That's crazy. You sure it's the correct ecu? As you said you have an E5, but that wouldn't be the right ecu for a 98 engine and harness. It should need a J4.

[BeauBrockway]

It right. The pin out is correct and its a 94 not a 98. That was my bad. Can a igniter be bad where it will allow spark but have weak spark? The fix will be really stupid. I'm gunna do everything over again tonight comp test fuel pressure spark test timing swap with kgp and just go through it all. Maybe cylinders are washed and it was timing and its not starting cause the flooding who knows


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[TheRealSy90]

Fly me over and i'll get it running lol :P

[Kingtal0n]

If you think that the problem is FUEL related, and spark is good and compression is good, then disable the fuel injectors and use starting fluid spray to get the engine to make some noise.

If you think the problem is spark related, check ground, and install brand new plugs without gapping them down (do not touch them. use NGK BKR7ES out of the box), and actually before you install them watch each of them spark onto the intake manifold by positioning them to touch the intake while you spin the CAS (or crank). I usually have a spare CAS laying around to plug in and see each plug fire while I stand there and spin it.

If you think the problem is spark timing related, spin the CAS while someone cranks to verify (eventually as you spin that CAS 360* you will hit the spot and get something).

otherwise, compression is all thats left. Even if it was something ultra rare like a clogged exhaust system or a sock left in the intake manifold, that will show up on a compression test.

[cotbu]

Fixed yet?

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[BeauBrockway]

The shims were not installed correctly causing the valves to stay open. The hydraulic lifters cause it to have compression when first cranking then after a few times it pumps up and I lose compression then the cylinders was down with fuel


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[TurboTiger]

The shims were not installed correctly causing the valves to stay open. The hydraulic lifters cause it to have compression when first cranking then after a few times it pumps up and I lose compression then the cylinders was down with fuel


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So it's running now?

[cotbu]

So are you the senior tech? The hydraulic lifters aren't self bleeding, and should have been bled before install, the shims being installed wrong, could cause low compression, but you said compression was good. You still would get, at least one chamber to combust. You don't have a Honda gx160, lol.

So how did you perform your reshimming? I offer this as a service, for those whom misplaced, lost, tipped the head and solid lifter install.

Anyway hope it's running well.:)

From a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[BeauBrockway]

The shims were not installed by myself and the compression was done before it was brought to me. Yes I am a senior tec my biggest mistake was relying on info from other people who had looked at it first. If I would have done it ally self from the get go u would have found it. There was 50psi and 0 on the other 3 but it's all apart still but I'm sure that's the issue hope by the end of the week it's done


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