S14 Trans, Rubbing/Whirling/Grinding Noise when Clutch Depressed - Spec Clutch.

[brianglawson]

EDIT*** Please Help me figure this out!!!!!

I have pulled the transmission. I have the Throwout bearing out... I can grab the inner race and the outer race and get a VERY slight amount of play between the two.. but it spins smooth and quiet as could be... I took it to a local mechanic and they said it was fine.... When pressure is on it, it spins smooth...

There is a video below of the actual noise, and below that is a video examining the removed throwout bearing.

HERE IS A VIDEO OF THE ACTUAL NOISE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwOdJoFBugI&feature=youtu.be

Here is a video of the Throwout bearing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQlByZS-Sb4

Here is a Video of me spinning the input shaft on the transmission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVsmjmtW9w8

So what now???? Throwout Bearing?? Pilot Bearing?? Transmission shaft bearing???





ORIGINAL POST:
My car has a dragging noise when the clutch is depressed. It used to only do it when it was cold in the mornings, now it does it all the time, even after the car is warm. Shifting is getting difficult as well.

I haven't been driving the car, just to ensure I have the best chance of mitigating any damage. I'm wondering if it could be something simple like air in the clutch master cylinder or even a new one...

The car has a Spec 6 puck and a resurfaced OEM s14 flywheel. I'm hoping the flywheel was machined properly.

I sort of feared it was low on fluid perhaps, and I added some as my first attempt at getting lucky, but that didn't seem to help

My next step is to bleed the clutch.

I have been told that Spec had two versions of their Throwout bearing; the old versions apparently had a lot of problems, and they remedied this with the new version, is that correct?

My clutch was purchased and installed earlier in 2014, what are the chances of it being the old version?

I really need to get this fixed :D I have barely got to enjoy the car since I completed a few thousand dollars worth of mods!

[s14boy]

Really hard to diagnose a noise over the internet if your clutch master was dry before you toped it off then it could very well be air in the line leading to the clutch not dissengaging fully which would cause you hard shifting and then the noise could be the cluch glazing the fly wheel.

Try bleeding it as you have nothing to lose there but some break fluid. Then if your problem still persists take it to someone who can fix it for you if you are not comfortable in taking the trans off to inspect the cluch. Also for future reference always go with the oem TOB toss the aftermarker ones in the trash.

Hope that helps feel free to pm me if you need any help as I wont check this thread. And try to not post these as it cluters the fourm.
-Mike

[brianglawson]

Im more than comfortable taking it apart.

I have read that Spec released a second version TOB that was supposed to remedy the problems they had.. which means I could potentially warranty it and get the parts for free.. which would be nice.. im hurting financially.

Im def. aware of how hard it is to diagnose anything online, however I really wanted suggestions of what to track down.

Im going to bleed the MC and see what happens. Next step, I will drop the trans and see what's up. This should be a breeze compared to my STI... LOL

[accoupe]

Def sounds like a throw out bearing with the clutch pedal depressed. Or possibly pilot bearing.

[angel mkiv]

I would start with a master cylinder and slave cylinder combo since that wouldn't hurt but I'm leaning towards the throw out bearing being bad..you could also try a trans fluid flush as well..all those even if they don't fix it are good things to do anyways

[brianglawson]

bump..........

If it is the throw out bearing, will an OEM Nissan throwout bearing work with the Spec clutch kit?

[jr_ss]

My first guess would've been a throw out bearing. They are the most common cause of whirring, especially when the pedal is depressed.

Contact Spec, they should have a dimension of the bearing needed to function correctly on your setup. Then you can go above getting the correct size TOB you need. They may even be able to supply you with a new one, at a cost of course.

[brianglawson]

This is getting URGENT

I have pulled the transmission. I have the Throwout bearing out... I can grab the inner race and the outer race and get a VERY slight amount of play between the two.. but it spins smooth and quiet as could be... I took it to a local mechanic and they said it was fine.... When pressure is on it, it spins smooth...

There is a video below of the actual noise, and below that is a video examining the removed throwout bearing.

HERE IS A VIDEO OF THE ACTUAL NOISE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwOdJoFBugI&feature=youtu.be

Here is a video of the Throwout bearing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQlByZS-Sb4

So what now???? Throwout Bearing?? Pilot Bearing?? Transmission shaft bearing???

[Kingtal0n]

I just installed a Spec clutch kit a week ago.
They have a larger new version, and an older original size, 240mm.

The one I had was the older, 240mm, and I used an OEM replacement TO bearing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161028401062?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It felt very thick and heavy duty in my hand. Everything works absolutely perfect, clutch feels great. So to recap, 240mm clutch cover, brand new spec disc, and that TO bearing. I also replaced the little clips on the fork,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191121591917?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201055791161?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and use this grease to do the job, like the FSM says, molybdenum sulfide grease,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331489092364?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

that grease goes on the input shaft, and the recess inside the throwout bearing sleeve. If you look in the FSM it shows you where to pack many places,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/christmas/trans2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/christmas/th_trans1.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/draglarry/media/christmas/trans1.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/Kingtal0ns_240sx_2/clutch_day/P1220539.jpg

[brianglawson]

What's the outer Diameter of the old Spec vs. the new Spec TOB???

Honestly, I don't think my bearing should have that little bit of play between the races, but what my local mechanic said makes sense... that it has pressure on it.. and it spins smooth and tight.

I did notice that when I first took the transmission out, (this is a first for me in many years) and was playing with the shifter fork and how it worked. When I would move the fork/Throwout bearing in and out, sometimes it felt like it wanted to hang up. Now, I'm thinking I was probably pulling it out further than it typically would. It has[d] plenty of lubricant on it. When I was driving the car, It shifted great, never had any funky shifts or never felt like anything was hanging up.... as you can hear in the video... when I had pressure on the clutch and the car was being given some gas, I would get that whining/grinding/whirling/dragging noise....

I'm about to make another video..

So I have the transmission sitting on the floor; I reinstalled my shifter and made sure it was still in neutral. Now, I spin the input shaft and I do hear some noise rattling around. My mechanic suggested that it might be the input shaft bearing inside the transmission. While I spin the input shaft, I hear some fairly loud, inconsistent noise coming from the gear box. I hear it all the same when I put it in a gear. Now I'm kind of wondering if it is, indeed, the bearing in the transmission. The def. sounds like it could be a bad bearing.

Im going to go make a video and i'll post it up.

[EJ8 944]

This might not be completely related to yours because the noise I was experiencing was very similar, but hard to tell over a video - I rebuilt my slave cylinder and it stopped. This is on a stock S14 SR motor, stock trans, stock clutch + all components. I noticed my slave was just a little leaky when I was under there, replaced it and my noise went away.

[brianglawson]

Wow, sure would be depressing if that was it.... haha. After I pulled the whole trans... it's there any way to inspect a slave? I know it doesn't have any leaks (the damn thing has been hitting me in the head repeatedly....lol) I could sort of see how this noise would be related to something not fully engaging or disengaging though..... hmmm...

If my input shaft bearing or my pilot bearing were bad, I'd hear this noise all the time wouldn't I? Or if the input shaft bearing in the transmission was bad I would at least think I'd hear it while driving in gear, right?....

I'm about to take this video of me spinning the shaft and the noise I hear... I'm curious if it's typical or not.... wish I would have tried replacing the slave first though... I've just been so damn broke that I didn't want to "poke and hope"

[brianglawson]

OK, SOOOooo

Here is ANOTHER video... Just trying to make sure that this noise is typical, or if it's not...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVsmjmtW9w8

[Kingtal0n]

Have you been in there recently? Mine would make a similar noise once in a while. Like if I hit it just right, sometimes when I clutch, then let halfway up, then clutch again... I would get that sort of noise.

I always thought it was just a dried up failing throwout bearing. When I took it out, it looked pretty dry / beat up. Here it is,
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/Kingtal0ns_240sx_2/clutch_day/P1220530.jpg

You can just look at this thing, and tell it needs some grease. Perhaps the face was seizing up, making that noise. Just a guess! The noise is long gone now, and I have since replaced what I mentioned above....
I wish we could grease them easily, installed in the car. I wonder if we could make a tool, that fits into the inspection plate, and bolts up symmetrical so it always winds up in the same exact place- to get grease up into that region there.

[brianglawson]

I have not been in there recently, This was installed by the previous owner last spring. I have all of the receipts from the parts purchased. The Clutch kit was purchased from Enjuku last March. The setup has around 4k-4500 miles on it. It was installed when the swap was performed on the car. Spec Stage 3 clutch, S15 SR20, S14 5 speed trans, and a resurfaced S14 Flywheel. All of the work done on the car is very clean.

The noise started once weather started getting colder. I would notice it when the car was cold and then it would go away. As time went on, it got more and more persistent until it started sounding like it does in the video I posted.

[brianglawson]

The Throwout Assembly was lubricated just fine... Still had plenty of grease.. but not too much

[Dboyizmlg]

This might not be completely related to yours because the noise I was experiencing was very similar, but hard to tell over a video - I rebuilt my slave cylinder and it stopped. This is on a stock S14 SR motor, stock trans, stock clutch + all components. I noticed my slave was just a little leaky when I was under there, replaced it and my noise went away.

It is very rare when this happens, BUT it can happen.

I have experienced a couple of these situations with friends cars.

Also just seen your TOB video, and I'm pretty sure it's NOT your TOB.
I would say I'm 99% sure TOB is ok

[Dboyizmlg]

Here's a video that might also be helpful.

It's a honda civic but noise might be similar. Also the noise on this video is when clucth is not depressed. Noise goes away when pedal is depressed all the way down.

Just watch the last 2 minutes of it to hear what the tech has to say, or watch it all... Lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zeo_Rm0O3gs

[brianglawson]

Sooooo Update:

I got the transmission out.... and the Throwout bearing is fine... the input shat bearing is fine... Pilot bearing seems fine feeling in..... Im trying to get the transmission reinstalled and am having more trouble than I am when I removed it!! to remove it, I ended up lowering the subframe and rotating the transmission 180* and got it out.... hurt my back pretty bad in the process.... as I did it by myself.. LOL Im starting to really think that it was my slave cylinder or master cylinder getting weak.... it happened gradually, but fast.... not typical of a bearing... bearings usually have a long fail process... whereas a hydraulic piece will show signs of inoperability and then very quickly deteriorate to non functional....

Anyway... im trying to get it back in; I feel like I have tried about every rotation possible. I can't get this sucker back in.....

Im starting to think I will have to jack the motor up and remove the motor mounts and set it down metal on metal........

Anyone have any input??

[derass]

Loosen the top and bottom motor mount nuts all the way but DO NOT remove them. Then using a block of wood, jack the motor up as far as it will go from under the oil pan (I know, I know. Be careful). This will tilt the back of the motor down and allow the trans to be installed more easily. Try and get a helper for that part, it goes a long way.

[brianglawson]

Thanks man!!

[Mynamejeffree]

Did anyone find out the solution to this? Having the same exact noise coming from my 240