questions relating sr20 and enthalpy tuned ecu

[bahlorm]

Hey guys. I have a question. I just ordered a used enthalpy ecu tuned for an sr20 with a gt2781r turbo 550cc injectors and z32 maf. The person selling it said he was on about 16 psi boost and around 285 whp with his setup and this ecu.
I was hoping for at least 350 whp for my car so I thinking I may need 20 or 22 psi to get me there. Now what I wonder is will I be able to get those numbers without sending the ecu back in to retune it if I'm already running this same setup but wanting more boost or do I have to go send it back to get it tuned for higher boost pressure?

[bahlorm]

I am completely new to this tuning area so I really don't know shit about it. Also I still currently have the stock maf instead of z32. Is it safe to drive on a stock maf when it's tuned for z32 if I'm not beating on it? It's just a toy of mine so if I can't drive it without the new maf then it will keep in the garage until I get it.

[Dboyizmlg]

I don't think you will hit +350whp with 550cc injectors, and also you should not go past 20psi on pump gas.
Only race fuel, or E85 will allow you to boost up to 22psi.

Get bigger injectors (740cc), and then call up enthalpy for suggestion on the current map on the ECU.

I'm assuming you will be running it on 91 pump gas?

[Ka-t in progress]

You will not need to get retuned. Fuel pressure increases as boost pressure increases. He tunes for the set up,he won't even ask how much boost you plan on running. Your safe to go over 20lbs on pump gas,not highly recommended but it's safe as long as the tune is good,which enthralled makes great tunes. I'm currently on 25lbs on 93 octane. Built motor though. Just gotta watch your timing

[bahlorm]

I will be running on 93 octane. E85 or race fuel is a bit much for me when the cars mostly more like a weekend warrior type right now. Thanks for the replies guys. I know the purpose of tunes and everything but when it comes to what exactly may or may not be possible just has me scratching my head lol.

[Tom N]

You will need bigger injectors and a retune for the injectors.

[bahlorm]

How much could I squeeze out with 550cc?

[ultimateirving]

555, maybe 300-320 safety

[cotbu]

You can easily do 350hp with 555cc injectors. When we say supporting mods this isnt what we mean. We mean if we run everything to the max the support is there.

That turbo, on an sr20 should be seeing 350 around 17psi if you need 3psi more you should be retuned.

Sent from my Highly Tuned Note4!!!

[bahlorm]

At the moment the only mods I do currently have is a turbo back 3 Inch exhaust. No cat. And an unknown front mount intercooler and of course a walboro 255 fuel pump. Parts are coming in fairly slow but it's getting there. I have run on this turbo on stock injectors and tune for the past 4 or 5 months on a hope and a prayer to the car gods lol

[Dboyizmlg]

You will not need to get retuned. Fuel pressure increases as boost pressure increases. He tunes for the set up,he won't even ask how much boost you plan on running. Your safe to go over 20lbs on pump gas,not highly recommended but it's safe as long as the tune is good,which enthralled makes great tunes. I'm currently on 25lbs on 93 octane. Built motor though. Just gotta watch your timing

It's NOT SAFE to go over 20psi boost on pump gas period!
At least for the 2871r.

As for the question about 350whp for 550cc injectors, the answer is "yes" and " no".
Tune on a dyno jet(these read high numbers) yes you should be around 350whp range with cams, and a "good tune".

Tune on a dyno dynamics (these read lower) I should say you should be 320-330whp also with cams, and "good tune".

Btw you will be maxing out those 550cc injectors maybe really close to 100% duty cycle, which is not ideal.

Do some research.
There is a Gt2871r thread here look it up and read a lot of peoples set ups

[Dboyizmlg]

555, maybe 300-320 safety

^^ this is what I mean

[ultimateirving]

^^ this is what I mean

Yea that was my point too. You don't wanna be runng the injectors at high duty all the time. So get 740s if you can afford to sell yours and upgrade when you are ready for a retune.

[bahlorm]

I'll probably deal with what I can for now until I am finished with the suspension. Thanks for all the info guys.

[AJZax]

boost pressure does not affect the tune.

MAF moniters air mass. So the correct amount of fuel will be added through the tune.
AS LONG AS the fuel system can keep up.

Martin (RS-Enthalpy tuner/owner) does amazing tunes and is respected across the country. But I still wouldn't run pump gas passed 21psi for longevity sake. Just my opinion. Is that 5whp worth losing 50% of the life? lol

[RalliartRsX]

It's NOT SAFE to go over 20psi boost on pump gas period!
At least for the 2871r.



That is somewhat incorrect. A GT2871R is flowing about 360 lbs/min of air and is sitting on the 74% efficiency island. Plenty of dense air where running @ 20 psi on a GT2871R is not going to cause any detonation (with a good TUNE!!!). A standalone ECU will get this done all day everyday on 93 PUMP. 91 piss water Californian pump..........thats a different story (and given his state beig in Indiana, he will be just fine!) :(

Flow map for the 2871R is below. Efficiency island at 20 psi (2.36 pressure ratio).


I have to agree with Ka-T: 20psi is perfectly safe on 93 pump and that is where my current BW EFR turbo is sitting (actually, it is sitting on 22psi, which is a flowing more than the 2871R)

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy317/badbob2121/good.jpg

[RalliartRsX]

Now to the OP

1) 350 WHP will be just about (physically acutally) impossible to get on 550cc injectors unless then are static + (100+%). However, this is the flow rate at 3bar. bump the pressure up to 4 bar (a little over 600cc) and you will be sitting at probably a little over 90% on the injectors

2) New injectors, or any change to the fuel system (even bumping it up to 4 bar FP) will necissitate a retune

3) If you are on stock MAF and injectors, I would highly advise you do not go past 7 or so psi on that turbo. You will quickly hit flow limit of both MAF and injectors and possibly damage the engine in the process.

Good luck out there!

[TheRealSy90]

FYI if the ecu is tuned for a z32 mafs, you must run a z32 mafs!

[Dboyizmlg]

I have to agree with Ka-T: 20psi is perfectly safe on 93 pump and that is where my current BW EFR turbo is sitting (actually, it is sitting on 22psi, which is a flowing more than the 2871R)

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy317/badbob2121/good.jpg[/QUOTE]


Lol, ok I should of been a bit more specific.

Here in California we have 91 pump gas, which is what most people run this piss gas. Or if you're lucky you live near a Propel station (E85) luckily I do so I pump the Corn.
I should of mentioned that I was referring to boosting past 20psi on 91 pump.
No, he SHOULDNT if he is on 91.

Even for 93 octane I wouldn't recommend him to boost higher than 20psi period! Can he do it ? Sure! Not recommended though.

E85 on the other hand..... Well I can boost to 23psi with no issues.
That's one o the advantages of this fuel that it will allow to boost higher on any turbo, vs piss gas (91).

20psi on 2871r is effecient to flow if you are on either 91 or. 93, anything past that you are going to be pumping hot air in.

[TheRealSy90]

What's the maximum safe boost pressure to run on a top mounted greddy td06-20g setup when limited to 91 pump gas? Is it worth it to go through the trouble of water-methanol just for a little extra power? Or should I just save the hassle and run a little less boost.

[RalliartRsX]

TheRealSy90, I recommend you look at the compressor map and figure it out. 20psi on a 20G is NOT 20psi on a 2871R. I am not sure what the map looks like or what is the upper boost limit unfortunately. It seems for a 4 cylinder turbo, 350WHP or so may be close to the limit on some of California's piss water. I have seen 400WHP on piss water from other California regions. Tough to nail down an answer.

Blanket statement and no one setup is the answer. Sorry :hs:

I would recommend selling your car than run ANYTHING on piss water from California before I recommend anything else lol!

[bahlorm]

Around where I live we don't have 91 octane at most places so I always ran 93. Even on the stock setup. Granted with fuel prices dropping so much I'm always able to get a bottle of octane boost if I need to. But I hear race fuel is like 8 or 9 dollars a gallon around here so that just isn't worth it to squeeze a few extra horses on a car that's mostly just going to be autocrossed.

[joe3180]

http://www.sr20forum.com/technical-information-library/142897-inj-size-whp-output.html

Mine couldn't get these numbers since I started to lean out around 335hp 15lbs 600cc top feed inj 91oct

[TheRealSy90]

TheRealSy90, I recommend you look at the compressor map and figure it out. 20psi on a 20G is NOT 20psi on a 2871R. I am not sure what the map looks like or what is the upper boost limit unfortunately. It seems for a 4 cylinder turbo, 350WHP or so may be close to the limit on some of California's piss water. I have seen 400WHP on piss water from other California regions. Tough to nail down an answer.

Blanket statement and no one setup is the answer. Sorry :hs:

I would recommend selling your car than run ANYTHING on piss water from California before I recommend anything else lol!

So this seems to be the compressor map for the td06h-20g. Not sure if there is a difference between top mount and bottom mount setups. What are we looking at here as far as capabilities on pump gas?

http://www.lovehorsepower.com/images/CompressorMaps/td06h-20g-cfm.gif

[RalliartRsX]

^^ It's almost as if you didn't bother to read a SINGLE thing I said except what you choose to want to read...........

I will say this however (like I said 3 times before). You are limited by how knock prone your fuel and engine is (for instance, the VE has a little better knock resistance than the DE although the ringlands on the FWD VE are not as strong) and has NOTHING to do with turbo capabilities. So essentially, if you are detonation limited at a specific air volume, then no matter how capable the turbo is at moving large volumes of air, once you get to that the fuel detonation limit, thats it!

Also, bottom mount vs top mount has nothing to do with anything. It's all in terms of flow properties. An engine is simply an oversized pump.

Good luck!

[cotbu]

http://www.sr20forum.com/technical-information-library/142897-inj-size-whp-output.html

Mine couldn't get these numbers since I started to lean out around 335hp 15lbs 600cc top feed inj 91oct

You need a retune 600cc injector should not be lean at 15psi from any of the turbos mentioned in this thread. Now if you mean detonated then may cause 91oct sucks balls.

P.s. codyace used 615cc injectors iirc

Sent from my Highly Tuned Note4!!!

[TheRealSy90]

I was just hoping the compressor map would pique some constructive feedback and input as far as what kind of capabilities that setup should have.

[RalliartRsX]

Then say that lol!!

I would advise you take a look at what flow maps roughly translates into (when it comes to engine power) and you may find your answer sooner than waiting for anyone on here to just hand you the keys to the vault ;)

I actually already answered your question(s) on 4 separate occasions within this thread :). Below is a good video to watch for your learning benefit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lv4yjiuJSU