Opinions on Most Streetable LSD? [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

StuckeyOG

11-19-2014, 04:18 PM

So I'm considering purchasing a LSD for my S14 soon but I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on getting one. I wanted to make a thread with definitive information about them. I'm starting to think it's a matter of opinion but there has to be a threshold somewhere right?

From what I collect,there were conflicting opinions on whether or not to shim a VLSD, some say that's too aggressive.

Some people said get a diff with adjustable breakaway settings like a KAAZ and set it to around 70 ft-lbs of breakaway torque.

I read not to get a 2-way diff for daily driving but someone else said that they think 2-way diffs are better and that 1.5-way diffs are made for inexperienced drivers? I don't think the latter is true to be honest but I wanted to hear some opinions.

Also, as far as differential oil should one just ask the manufacturer of the differential for best thickness or is there a recommended thickness for all aftermarket differentials?

People at my college autoshop keep recommending I weld my diff but I'm really not trying to do that as this is my daily driver lol. I'm also looking for maximum reliability.

HORShi

11-19-2014, 04:35 PM

I'm going to provide input on this...as I just literally about a month ago ask a similar question to numerous of members on this forum AND I made a thread in the tech section.

What we need to first clarify is, what do you mean by "most streetable"

For me:

Streetable = can be daily driven without extra "work" on the driver OR severe lost in "comfort" in various of conditions and circumstances (weather, roads i.e). *work & comfort is also subjective

Anyways, before the most "streetable" question can be answer, you also need to ask what is your goals? Is it a street drift car? is it going to see more DD than drift? more drift than DD? are you circuit lapping?

Because in my opinion, this is the most crucial information needed before you a decision can be made. I have a VLSD (I love driving spirited on the freeways) but I have recently acquired an welded diff that needs to be reinforced (my thread is in the tech section, ill post it in a minute) and I got the welded because I'm ready to take the next step in improving my drifting. I was going to save up for a 2 way to do it the right way, but a welded for $50 and with the diff in amazing condition...I couldn't pass it up lol. I'm getting ready to install it in the coming days to test it. So I can possibly provide some input as a newbie to welders when I drop out my VLSD

But there is tons of other guys on here who has experience in welders and LSD, so hopefully they chime in. Oh yea my car is a DD also, so we are in the same boat.

ZX88

11-19-2014, 04:58 PM

vlsd would be the best for the street... 2 way is not that bad but it definitely changes the cars characteristics. locking on decel etc.

dorkidori_s13

11-19-2014, 04:58 PM

completely silent + maintenance free = S15 HLSD

streetable + change oil every 15-30k miles of normal driving = KAAZ or Cusco

loud as shit but locks up tighter than a pair of your sisters jeans = ATS 2 way

almost silent + change oil every 15-30k miles + EXPENSIVE = Carbonetics 2 way

KiLLeR2001

11-19-2014, 05:03 PM

XZLF3AVSkUI

I think my reaction should give you an idea. :)

dorkidori_s13

11-19-2014, 05:14 PM

I totally <3 my S15 HLSD :) never been happier... very different than a clutch type in that it never locks, it just transfers torque, but for daily driving and occasional spirited driving or drifting, its perfect!

StuckeyOG

11-19-2014, 05:45 PM

what is your goals? Is it a street drift car? is it going to see more DD than drift? more drift than DD? are you circuit lapping?

This is the only car I drive and I drive it every day. I do some street drifting, usually in wide open areas near my house. But not much because my motor's burning oil and I'm still learning. Don't want to get over zealous and crash my daily or god forbid get caught up because I stay at a spot too long. I'm not a bad driver it's just getting used to this whole idea of initiating with the handbrake is taking me a little while. I usually would initiate by revmatching to about 4000 rpm into 2nd gear from 3rd and using weight transfer to break the tires loose then just steer and play with the gas. I think I like using the e-brake alot better to intiate though from the few times I said fuck it and let it rip lol.

To answer your question more directly it is my daily driver that gets thorough use and occasionally goes on trips up to 500 miles round trip. I also enjoy thrashing it around stop signs and what not while I'm getting the handle on keeping the car controlled in a drift. I just make sure not to push my limits too far, if you or anyone else thinks that I'm stupid and should take it to a track I don't really care lol I've heard it all before. I also enjoy being able to handle well through curves so the HLSD that has been mentioned is appealing but not if I can't lock up my wheels and slide! I think I would rather get the hang of driving a car that can lose traction on hard acceleration and deceleration and will grip and push you through the curves still at a moderate throttle. Moreso than a car with HLSD should it have no means of locking the wheels but can handle through curves extremely well, which it clearly can aha.

I totally <3 my S15 HLSD :) never been happier... very different than a clutch type in that it never locks, it just transfers torque, but for daily driving and occasional spirited driving or drifting, its perfect!

I was considering a Helical diff as well but I heard that they're I quote "absolute trash for drifting" and that it's near impossible to slide on them. If that's not true my decision may be leaning towards HLSD over clutch type LSD.

Also, thanks for the list of options earlier it clarified a lot of points I was confused about. :)

angel mkiv

11-19-2014, 05:51 PM

I agree with above..I've heard the s15 helical was good for road racing and street but suck for drifting..is like to hear what you guys have about it

ixfxi

11-19-2014, 06:13 PM

I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.

VLSD is cheap and good. Only drawback I recall was that it slips a tiny bit before it actually engages, but for a street car they work and work well. No maintenance.

HLSD is just superior, it works like magic and the rear stays planted. They're also pretty indestructible and require no maintenance. Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts.

Clutch type would be for competition use. Clutch discs require servicing.

StuckeyOG

11-19-2014, 06:24 PM

gearhead55

11-19-2014, 07:05 PM

I had a nismo 1.5 way clutch type in my RB S13. I loved it. It clunked a little but was absolutely not a problem as a daily driver. If you're drifting I would say just go for a clutch type, you might as well.

KravingAKouki

11-19-2014, 07:25 PM

be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts.

Hey Mike,

Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.

Thanks man

dorkidori_s13

11-19-2014, 07:44 PM

I was considering a Helical diff as well but I heard that they're I quote "absolute trash for drifting" and that it's near impossible to slide on them. If that's not true my decision may be leaning towards HLSD over clutch type LSD.

I have zero issues sliding the rear end of my car out. Mind you an HLSD is NOT a locking diff so it wont carry like a clutch type diff will... but if youre building a reliable street driven car and want an LSD that will NEVER wear out, HLSD is the way to go. VLSDs are getting old and cannot be rebuilt. VLSDs also stop working after too much heat is built up, the viscous fluid has to cool down again as its viscosity and friction wear out at very high temps.

I agree with above..I've heard the s15 helical was good for road racing and street but suck for drifting..is like to hear what you guys have about it

again, no complaints on my end... but im not trying to ride the wall in 4th gear. my cars ass end gets out just fine, leaves 2 clearly visible tire marks when doing donuts and handles anything i push to it.

I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.

Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts.

OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.

Ever lock up your rear wheels with that HLSD?

HLSDs dont lock. They transfer torque between the wheels with the most grip.

Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.

R200 rear ends are R200 rear ends, there are no compatibility issues. S15 diff will fit just fine an S14 pumpkin. S15 pumpkin is just an small evolution of the S14 pumpkin. I think Nissan just added a spot for the speed sensor as it was moved from the tranny to the diff.

KiLLeR2001

11-19-2014, 08:31 PM

OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.

Another crucial step is cleaning out the threaded holes of the ring gear thoroughly. They are always gunked up with old loctite and oil. Once cleaned, apply fresh loctite to bolts and tighten in an even star pattern with an impact gun that can handle the job. FSM states 98-112 ft/lbs of torque on the ring gear bolts.

Farzam

11-19-2014, 10:25 PM

I had an s15 HLSD...it wasn't my favorite as far as "drift novelty" but it was very consistant with what it did, and it was veeeeeery smooth for an "old" nissan diff. Way more reliable than the average VLSD that I can't even get to lock up half the time.

bmaddock

11-20-2014, 06:18 AM

Informative thread! Not an LSD, per se, but I daily drove on a welded diff for around 2 years and had no issues.

I'm not trying to bring up the whole welded diff debate that usually stems from this but just some food for thought if you're tight on cash and can't make the leap to a nice LSD. I'll keep it short but keep in mind that in daily use from a responsible driver, you will actually understeer more than oversteer with a welded. A lot of people are under the impression dailying a welded is an impossible feat to do. PM me if you have more questions or just search, welded diff discussion has been talked over and over again. I'm level-headed and will answer any questions you have about it.

HORShi

11-20-2014, 07:37 AM

This is the only car I drive and I drive it every day. I do some street drifting, usually in wide open areas near my house. But not much because my motor's burning oil and I'm still learning. Don't want to get over zealous and crash my daily or god forbid get caught up because I stay at a spot too long. I'm not a bad driver it's just getting used to this whole idea of initiating with the handbrake is taking me a little while. I usually would initiate by revmatching to about 4000 rpm into 2nd gear from 3rd and using weight transfer to break the tires loose then just steer and play with the gas. I think I like using the e-brake alot better to intiate though from the few times I said fuck it and let it rip lol.

To answer your question more directly it is my daily driver that gets thorough use and occasionally goes on trips up to 500 miles round trip. I also enjoy thrashing it around stop signs and what not while I'm getting the handle on keeping the car controlled in a drift. I just make sure not to push my limits too far, if you or anyone else thinks that I'm stupid and should take it to a track I don't really care lol I've heard it all before. I also enjoy being able to handle well through curves so the HLSD that has been mentioned is appealing but not if I can't lock up my wheels and slide! I think I would rather get the hang of driving a car that can lose traction on hard acceleration and deceleration and will grip and push you through the curves still at a moderate throttle. Moreso than a car with HLSD should it have no means of locking the wheels but can handle through curves extremely well, which it clearly can aha.

Man, trust me...idk about anyone else, but you will NEVER hear from me at least "your stupid, take it to the track, blah blah blah blah" lol. I love the street myself too much (especially my current city's new looping freshly paved freeway system :cool:)

All that matters if your being responsible, not trying go FnF Tokyo Drift and attempt to be sliding in the middle of traffic like pretending to be the DK, and not putting any bystanders in harms way, other than that, learning on the street is good. Of course it may not give you track etiquette or whatever, but you will learn to adapt to unpredictable changes and learn to be more aware of things.

But anyways back on topic, more or less you sound like me and the direction I'm heading with my car. I'm currently in the process of building a street "spirited" DD drift car per se. I love drifting, but I love freeway running (and no not street racing) also.

I believe in your case to sum it up, you should check out a welder or opt out for a 1.5 way (if your budget allows)? I know a lot of guys have mention the Helical, I have not experience nor knowledge so I can't help you with that, but I have been in a 1.5 way that hot laps on the circuit and seen tons of welders. I truly don't think driving a welded daily is as bad as people made them out to be. I think most people just don't want do the extra work, pay extra attention to what they're doing and drive even more defensive on daily. lol. (which is good actually)

EDIT: Since you do drive 300+ miles occasional round trips. One thing to keep in mind, a clutch type LSD needs to be service sooner or later and needs it's oil change more often the others. If your looking for up-most reliability, to be sincerely honest, I think the welded would probably be the most reliable IF AND ONLY IF IT'S WELDED PROPERLY. You don't have to worry about no servicing or anything, just change oil maybe if you feel like it. The HLSD based on the other's responses sounds also the same. Essentially it sounds like these two would be the best picks for your application.

Informative thread! Not an LSD, per se, but I daily drove on a welded diff for around 2 years and had no issues.

I'm not trying to bring up the whole welded diff debate that usually stems from this but just some food for thought if you're tight on cash and can't make the leap to a nice LSD. I'll keep it short but keep in mind that in daily use from a responsible driver, you will actually understeer more than oversteer with a welded. A lot of people are under the impression dailying a welded is an impossible feat to do. PM me if you have more questions or just search, welded diff discussion has been talked over and over again. I'm level-headed and will answer any questions you have about it.

^^^StuckeyOG, bmaddock has a video on his IG of him driving very spirited in the mountains of Virginia with a welded I believe? It can be done for sure, of course it will never give you optimal grip as a LSD/HLSD/VLSD, but it can be done. If I find it Ill post it.

OBEEWON

11-20-2014, 07:43 AM

Silent and maintenance free/reliable = welded.
DDing a welded is barely noticeable ESPECIALLY if you DD a 240.
Aside from tire screams.

ixfxi

11-20-2014, 09:54 AM

Ever lock up your rear wheels with that HLSD?

As dorki said, a helical differential is not a locking differential. Its a torque sensing differential. If my understanding is correct, when one side slips it applies the percentage of the slip to the opposing wheel.

There are a lot of white papers out there that you can read. Google information on the TORSEN brand differentials (or QUAIFE) and you will find more than enough information on how these gems work. These differentials come stock on numerous high performance applications from Supra Turbo, Mustang Cobra, McLaren F1, Miata, Audi Quatro, etc. I thought it was interesting that McLaren current 12C does not have a limited slip diff. From what I gather its all managed with fancy electronics. Still, I prefer mechanical. If you ever look at the insides the helical gears remind me of a nice precision watch. I still think its all voodoo magic.

here are a couple links:
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-1%20Technical%20Sheet.pdf
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-2%20Technical%20Sheet.pdf
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20Performance%20Technical%20Sheet.pdf

If you guys need a source for used JDM differentials, contact Gordon @ DUAX MACHINE. He's the man.

Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.

As others have said, the S13/S14 R200 pumpkin (outer casings) are identical, the rear cover is whats different. The S15 exterior is different as its a variation that has the speed sensor provision - so you do not use the pumpkin, you ONLY use the following parts from the S15: HLSD internal, output shafts, ring gear bolts.

OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.

As you wish, gangster. I cant understand how anyone would want to install a bolt with an undersized shoulder in a critical application like a differential. Congratulations, you saved 80 dollars? Dunno. At least DEF used some small shim inserts to fill the gap. Still, NISSAN sells the bolts - we can still buy the bolts.

People who skimp out on shit like this just blow my mind.

OBEEWON

11-20-2014, 10:31 AM

A torsen is perfect for the street and light snow. Just don't track on one.

e1_griego

11-20-2014, 11:17 AM

+1 for Gordon @ DUAX machine. He sells on ebay frequently but you can contact him off ebay and he'll still sell you one.

Between both my cars I've had 3 helicals and for the money they can't be beat.

However, I prefer clutch type diffs because they're more linear and don't transfer power back and forth. For daily driving it doesn't matter at all, but for autox especially it becomes a distraction and it's harder to place the car.

As far as my diff preference, OS Giken are the smoothest diffs I've driven (and now I have one in each s13) and work beautifully. No clunks, pops, skittered tires, or any of the typical clutch type behavior. Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.

bmaddock

11-20-2014, 12:51 PM

As dorki said, a helical differential is not a locking differential. .... These differentials come stock on numerous high performance applications from Supra Turbo, Mustang Cobra, McLaren F1, Miata, Audi Quatro, etc.....

One of these is not like the others lol.

dorkidori_s13

11-20-2014, 01:13 PM

Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.

with clutch based diffs, fluid plays the BIGGEST role in how the acts/sounds. usually the fluids offered by the manufacturer itself are formulated to keep sound down as well as extending the life of the clutch plates inside since the fluid is specifically formulated for that particular diff. if you dont want to spend $80 per change on KAAZ, Cusco, ATS, OS Giken etc diff fluids, redline and royal purple work very well as an alternative.

friction modifier can be a bad thing in clutch and torsen based diffs. before using a gear oil that you either add friction modifier to or has it included, you should check with the manufacturer prior to the gear oil change. friction modifier can actually burn the clutch plates out much faster.

e1_griego

11-20-2014, 01:18 PM

You're talking like I'm adding extra modifier. I just use OSG fluid, as prescribed by OSG.

Giken also states that their diffs don't need a break-in or rebuild.

Due to the precision manufacturing, high-grade materials, and unique design, a break-in period nor rebuild is required for OS Giken LSD’s

dorkidori_s13

11-20-2014, 01:54 PM

i was stating for general knowledge, not implication of what you were doing.

Rustys14

11-20-2014, 02:05 PM

As far as my diff preference, OS Giken are the smoothest diffs I've driven (and now I have one in each s13) and work beautifully. No clunks, pops, skittered tires, or any of the typical clutch type behavior. Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.

This, I have a OS Giken in my hatch and it is very well mannered. I use regular gear oil with fiction modifier in mine since the OS Giken stuff is stupidly priced. I did find that a 2 way was a bit too aggressive for my taste on the road course though so I stepped down to a Nismo GT 1.5 way in my two tone. The Nismo GT is also pretty well mannered. IMHO the worst of the 2 ways are the older cheap Nismo diffs that everyone and their mother ran back in the day. Those seemed to lock well but were noisy as hell and I don't think they were serviceable either.

StuckeyOG

11-20-2014, 02:24 PM

You're talking like I'm adding extra modifier. I just use OSG fluid, as prescribed by OSG.

Giken also states that their diffs don't need a break-in or rebuild.

Wait so that extremely pricey OS Giken diff is a clutch type LSD that doesn't need rebuilding and is pretty much silent? Just very frequent fluid changes? I'm just debating if I want to go with something that requires such frequent fluid changes on my daily, my choice right now is between the OS Giken if I decide to ball out lol, a 1.5 way KAAZ, Cusco, or Nismo clutch type. Or a Quaiffe/S15 helical diff but I'm kind of skeptical about those at the moment lol.

I've heard talk of welded differentials causing broken axles and other complications which is the only reason I wouldn't get one despite the low budget and maintenance-free manner of them. I don't mind paying extra attention while driving, slowing down on turns, etc. It's just I don't want anything done improperly if it's going to cause problems later. Thanks for all the input on welded diffs though seems they're not as bad as I thought.

e1_griego

11-20-2014, 02:28 PM

12k mile interval isn't *that* frequent.

Yes it's silent.

dorkidori_s13

11-20-2014, 02:32 PM

im gonna be blunt, dont do some ghetto ass shit and weld your diff, especially for daily driving. do it RIGHT the first time and buy an actual diff, be it 1 way HLSD or 1.5/2 way clutch type LSD. its one thing if youre building a car that is nothing but a drift mule to weld your diff... but i can tell you from experience, if you want something to work right the first time and LAST... do it RIGHT the first time!!!

PS: regardless of what people are saying about clutch type diffs... i daily drove mine for YEARS with NO issues. just occasionally change the gear oil and youre fine. if youre constantly beating on the diff via track/drifting then clutches will wear out after a few years worth of abuse... but if youre seeing light track duty, standard clutch packs will last your 5-7 years with interval gear oil changes. the reason we are suggesting the HLSD is that it NEVER wears out, for daily/spirited driving and light track duty theyre awesome and can be had very easily AND cheaply... usually around the price range of $500 for a complete one. aftermarket 1.5 and 2 ways will usually run past $1000 now. the S15 diffs also hold their price value IF you sell them with the proper output shafts... DO NOT BUY AN S15 HLSD WITHOUT THE S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS!!!! S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS ARE 30 SPLINE!!! EVERY OTHER DIFF NISSAN HAS MADE USES 29 SPLINE!!!

e1_griego

11-20-2014, 02:38 PM

Yeah, for the money s15 helical can't be beat. It's 1/3 the price of OSG and works great. No maintenance, no noise, nothing.

It wasn't until I went to r-comps that I wanted to upgrade.

pancakes

11-20-2014, 04:36 PM

Seems like the hlsd is winning as far as the OPs needs, and mine as well. As mentioned, I'd need the hlsd, output shafts, and nismo ring gear bolts.

I know that open diffs and s14 vlsds are different lengths, leading to different length drive shafts. Which drive shaft will I need when going to an hlsd? I have an open diff/non abs car..

dorkidori_s13

11-20-2014, 04:45 PM

to be honest, you dont NEED the ring gear bolts. your S13/S14 bolts will work just fine if cleaned, loctite'd and torque evenly and properly.

frizzle

11-20-2014, 04:56 PM

Carbonetic Carbon LSD 2way works great.

StuckeyOG

11-20-2014, 05:17 PM

Carbonetic Carbon LSD 2way works great.

Is it pretty well-mannered and good for daily driving in your opinion?

dorkidori_s13

11-20-2014, 05:23 PM

Is it pretty well-mannered and good for daily driving in your opinion?

carbonetics has 2 different types of diffs, metal and carbon.

metal diffs are significantly less, but after owning an ATS LSD (Carbonetics used to be called Active Traction Systems and were one of the top LSD and gearbox manufacturers in Japan) i can tell you flat out that the metal 2 way diffs are LOUD AND CLUNKY!!!

ive never run one of their carbon diffs, but from everything ive read... theyre considerably quieter. however, unless you want to spend $1400+ on a carbon LSD... just go with an HLSD or KAAZ/Cusco/OS Giken.

420sx

11-20-2014, 07:22 PM

ok first of all to get things straight, you do not need overpriced manufacturers fluids. HOWEVER, you need to stick to types - GL4 do not mix with GL5. You need to know what to run - synthetic or organic. for example tomei/kaaz go very well with organic castrol + ford friction modifier. I ran that setup with very good results and its fairly quite - change the fluid every 3 oil changes. Its really not bad for daily, however many of us are grown ass men and dont daily our toys.

I recommend you get a vlsd for a daily if its a beater, however nothing wrong with good diffs as was stated here, for example the Carbonetics 2.0 is very quite (carbon plates) and is very well mannered, taking in the account you understand how to drive with a 2 way.

good luck

ixfxi

11-20-2014, 11:22 PM

DO NOT BUY AN S15 HLSD WITHOUT THE S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS!!!! S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS ARE 30 SPLINE!!! EVERY OTHER DIFF NISSAN HAS MADE USES 29 SPLINE!!!

take it easy dorki... you're spreading misinformation. dont get so fuckin excited

every other nissan diff is not 29 spline. there are other models that came with 30 spline shafts, such as the various skylines. plus, only the s15 models equipped with HLSD came with 30 spline shafts. i am pretty confident that HLSD was not standard for the S15, it was an option depending on trim - no?

HOWEVER, you need to stick to types - GL4 do not mix with GL5.

GL4 = transmissions
GL5 = differentials

ironically enough, mazda actually recommended both GL4 AND/OR GL5 for the miata transmission. I ran GL5 for a while but it didnt feel right, so drained it and switched to GL4.

Standard

11-21-2014, 12:10 AM

Isnt gl4 just 80w90? And gl5 75w140? I'm confused, would it really make that much of a diffrence? Someone explain this please :)

StuckeyOG

11-21-2014, 12:56 AM

dorkidori_s13

11-21-2014, 01:30 AM

every other nissan diff is not 29 spline. there are other models that came with 30 spline shafts, such as the various skylines. plus, only the s15 models equipped with HLSD came with 30 spline shafts. i am pretty confident that HLSD was not standard for the S15, it was an option depending on trim - no?

The R34 GT/T Skylines and S15 Silvias were the only 2 nissans that used HLSD and 30 spline shafts (S15 diff was used in the GT/T). Everything else was (and pretty much still is) VLSD with 29 spline shafts. The Nissan Joke, I mean Juke, uses a helical diff but this is fairly common with current day AWD setups. However, the Joke uses a proprietary axle setup.

R34 output shafts are extremely rare and are 6x1 bolt star pattern (not the 2x3 6 bolt triangle pattern the S-Chassis uses).

HLSD was available for Spec-S and Spec-R MANUAL models only. Spec-S and Spec-R Auto models came with a 29 spline Viscous diff. S15 output shafts are the only 30 spline output shaft that will work with USDM based S-Chassis. Nissan of Japan has since discontinued them I believe. J-Spec use to keep them in stock, but they havent had a set in years. It would probably be easiest to find them on Yahoo Auctions Japan.

dorkidori_s13

11-21-2014, 01:37 AM

My main question at this moment is regarding a HLSD.

Say I decide to go slide in the rain, nothing crazy just some e-brake initiation and a little throttle to get the car in a controlled slide on corners or in parking lots. How would the HLSD react in comparison to an open differential?

My reasoning behind this question is it's not very controllable at the moment but it gets the job done, so if it's any better with a HLSD I figure the price and lack of maintenance required warrants giving it a shot.

Would the car be more prone to whip and grip up in the other direction (similar to A/T cars that can't keep the wheels spinning) since it adds slip to the faster spinning wheel to gain traction?

Or am I over thinking this and it will just cause both wheels to spin at the same speeds making it more predictable than an open diff?

Helical gears use multiplication factors to transfer torque. When your multiplication factor is 0 times any number, the answer is always zero. What this means is the diff will revert back to an open diff in the rain, snow and when one wheel is off the ground. Helicals require grip in some form or another to create torque that is distributed side to side.

Stop worrying so much that your car will freak out or its not going to work like a clutch type. HLSD works fine and is a million times better than open diff. The car will push MUCH harder thru turns and you can actually launch properly from a dig with it. With a one turner burner (open diff), you always have one wheel dragging while the other pushes, and the push wheel never changes torque output, unless you go in reverse. So basically the only wheel that ever pushes is the passenger side, the drivers side wheel always drags and rotates slower. Open differentials are ideal for car manufacturers to use with 90% of cars out there because its a safety feature for most people who dont know how to drive in hazardous road conditions. It keeps the car slower in turns and prevents spin out (especially in RWD setups).

And like I previously stated, if you dont like your HLSD... You can sell it and it will be purchased ASAP! Complete HLSDs are rare in the S-Chassis scene and there is always someone looking for one. Unfortunately people are stupid and believe what the internet rumor mills tell them ie: "OMG LIKE TEH HELICAL DIFFURENTIULS ARE SUCKZORZ FOR TEH DRIFTINGS!" when in reality, Helical diffs (actually called Torsen Diffs aka Torque Sensing Differentials) are the most common 1 way differentials out there (Torsen/Helical diffs are pretty much all that Quaife makes, and theyre one of the biggest diff manufacturers around), theyre still being used in modern day AWD and higher horsepower RWD cars. If you really dislike the HLSD, put it up for sale and it will sell fast... then you can go buy yourself a 1.5 way or 2 way clutch based diff and see the difference. Clutch based diffs are nice, but 1.5 way and 2 way REALLY require your to relearn how to drive as youll have to learn how to be on and off the throttle and the rear end will come out REALLY easily, which is kind of bad in certain situations like ice and rain!

KiLLeR2001

11-21-2014, 07:15 AM

ixfxi

11-21-2014, 09:28 AM

Isnt gl4 just 80w90? And gl5 75w140? I'm confused, would it really make that much of a diffrence? Someone explain this please :)

You're confusing viscosity with oil specification.

We are living in the day and age where you can get this information from numerous sources, usually starting with google and ending with wikipedia

If you cant find your answer after reading Wikipedia, then you should commit suicide.

My main question at this moment is regarding a HLSD.
Say I decide to go slide in the rain, nothing crazy just some e-brake initiation and a little throttle to get the car in a controlled slide on corners or in parking lots. How would the HLSD react in comparison to an open differential?

Sliding a car with an open differential is bloody murder, its so fucking annoying when the other tire eventually decides to catch. I havent had an open diff in any of my cars for ages now.

Just do it by budget. If you want to spend the least, get a VLSD. Its fucking fantastic bang for the buck. Plus, you wont have to pay a shop to set up the differential internals. Simply grab a NA Z32 VLSD and install it with the J30 axles and you are done. The car will drive nice, the car will slide nice, and you'll probably be out for less than 300.

HLSD will bring you closer to the 800-1000 dollar range, but I feel its the best LSD for most applications.

The R34 GT/T Skylines and S15 Silvias were the only 2 nissans that used HLSD and 30 spline shafts (S15 diff was used in the GT/T). Everything else was (and pretty much still is) VLSD with 29 spline shafts. The Nissan Joke, I mean Juke, uses a helical diff but this is fairly common with current day AWD setups. However, the Joke uses a proprietary axle setup. R34 output shafts are extremely rare and are 6x1 bolt star pattern (not the 2x3 6 bolt triangle pattern the S-Chassis uses). HLSD was available for Spec-S and Spec-R MANUAL models only. Spec-S and Spec-R Auto models came with a 29 spline Viscous diff. S15 output shafts are the only 30 spline output shaft that will work with USDM based S-Chassis. Nissan of Japan has since discontinued them I believe. J-Spec use to keep them in stock, but they havent had a set in years. It would probably be easiest to find them on Yahoo Auctions Japan.

Dont you think you're getting too technical? This has already been discussed in the Diff/Axle Discussion thread I made long ago.

Besides, the S-chassis came with both, 3x2 bolt pattern setup OR 5x1 (8mm) bolt pattern. Its always been a toss up, but majority of cars had the 3x2 pattern.

With that said, I had a set of the 6x1 shafts and got rid of them because I didnt feel like sourcing the Z32/Q45 axle combination - its a total bitch finding the Z32 TT axle. Instead, I kept the 5x1 (10mm) setup with J30 axles. I agree that 30-spline output shafts can really fuck your upgrade up if you attempt to do this and somehow have the wrong parts, but these output flanges are not impossible to find - you just need to search around. Besides, there is a reason why I have TWO sets of my 5x1 output shafts: one on the car, and one on the shelf. :-)

Helical diffs (actually called Torsen Diffs aka Torque Sensing Differentials)

No, Helicals are called Helicals. Torsens is a brand. Quaife is a brand. From the research I did, the S15 HLSD is made by some Japanese company that I cant seem to recall... Tokugi something rather. I was asking Gordon about that because I was curious if it was a Torsen and he said NO.

ps: This cloudflare nonsense on Zilvia really sucks balls.

dorkidori_s13

11-21-2014, 10:35 AM

Dont you think you're getting too technical? This has already been discussed in the Diff/Axle Discussion thread I made long ago.

nope, just presenting fairly uncommon information in a clear and concise manner.

No, Helicals are called Helicals. Torsens is a brand. Quaife is a brand. From the research I did, the S15 HLSD is made by some Japanese company that I cant seem to recall... Tokugi something rather. I was asking Gordon about that because I was curious if it was a Torsen and he said NO.

Torsen may be a registered trademark, however, it is a patented technology and helical differentials are considered Torsen diffs! The S15 HLSD made be manufactured by someone else, but it is a licensed technology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen

If you scroll on down to the bottom area of the page, the R34 and S15 are listed.

ixfxi

11-21-2014, 11:10 AM

Torsen is a brand of helicals differentials. Its like like calling tissue Kleenex.

I believe the wiki page is incorrect, as I said earlier the R34/S15 HLSD was made by a Japanese manufacturer.

There is a reason why they are not sold, advertised and referred to as TORSEN differentials. Conversely, if you lookup the Miata, S2000, Mustang, etc... those ARE made by Torsen.

Even visually the S15/R34 insert looks different, you can tell its not made by the same company.

dorkidori_s13

11-21-2014, 11:21 AM

Im not saying that Torsen MADE the S15/R34 diffs, Im saying its a patented and licensed technology held by Torsen. Its like how Sony licenses its Blu-Ray technology to OTHER manufacturers.

ixfxi

11-21-2014, 12:31 PM

Listen man... dont get so damn fancy with me.

Just install a Phantom Grip. Its the same thing. :-)

dorkidori_s13

11-21-2014, 02:00 PM

Listen man... dont get so damn fancy with me.

Just install a Phantom Grip. Its the same thing. :-)

but you have such fancy pants... i thought if i didnt have pants as fancy as yours, i wouldnt be allowed to wear the fancy pants lol ;)

StuckeyOG

11-21-2014, 03:41 PM

If you are a true driver and not some hipster drifter you will try out various differential setups and see what you like best. I had no problem whipping my rear end around busting a U-turn with my stock KA24E. Straightened the car out and regained traction and I was on my way.

True but I'm going to be pretty straight forward. I am a 19 year old kid, I still live with my parents, I'm going to community college full time in the automotive service program. I don't have a job anymore because my last one was paying me $3.50 an hour after delivery costs (medical courier, deliver specimens from hospital to hospital all over LA) and extreme wear was going on my car. I was barely making enough to cover the food I was eating so I had to quit. So for me it would be ideal to get it right the first time and not have to deal with uninstalling and installing the differential one or possible two more times. But I guess sometimes thats just the name of the game.

Basically, I'm a broke ass kid who loves his S14 and is trying to learn about cars. I have no problem saving up to purchase quality parts where they matter. After I lowered my car a bit I needed an alignment but the stock arms didn't have enough adjustment. I could have purchased a full set of ISIS arms that would've held up great from what I understand but instead I pieced together a full SPL arm set over two months.
I may be broke and inexperienced but I still believe in trying your hardest and doing it right the first time :)

Helical gears use multiplication factors to transfer torque. When your multiplication factor is 0 times any number, the answer is always zero. What this means is the diff will revert back to an open diff in the rain, snow and when one wheel is off the ground. Helicals require grip in some form or another to create torque that is distributed side to side.

Stop worrying so much that your car will freak out or its not going to work like a clutch type. HLSD works fine and is a million times better than open diff. The car will push MUCH harder thru turns and you can actually launch properly from a dig with it. With a one turner burner (open diff), you always have one wheel dragging while the other pushes, and the push wheel never changes torque output, unless you go in reverse. So basically the only wheel that ever pushes is the passenger side, the drivers side wheel always drags and rotates slower. Open differentials are ideal for car manufacturers to use with 90% of cars out there because its a safety feature for most people who dont know how to drive in hazardous road conditions. It keeps the car slower in turns and prevents spin out (especially in RWD setups).

And like I previously stated, if you dont like your HLSD... You can sell it and it will be purchased ASAP! Complete HLSDs are rare in the S-Chassis scene and there is always someone looking for one. Unfortunately people are stupid and believe what the internet rumor mills tell them ie: "OMG LIKE TEH HELICAL DIFFURENTIULS ARE SUCKZORZ FOR TEH DRIFTINGS!" when in reality, Helical diffs (actually called Torsen Diffs aka Torque Sensing Differentials) are the most common 1 way differentials out there (Torsen/Helical diffs are pretty much all that Quaife makes, and theyre one of the biggest diff manufacturers around), theyre still being used in modern day AWD and higher horsepower RWD cars. If you really dislike the HLSD, put it up for sale and it will sell fast... then you can go buy yourself a 1.5 way or 2 way clutch based diff and see the difference. Clutch based diffs are nice, but 1.5 way and 2 way REALLY require your to relearn how to drive as youll have to learn how to be on and off the throttle and the rear end will come out REALLY easily, which is kind of bad in certain situations like ice and rain!

Thanks for the input. To be honest I think I could handle DDing a 1.5 way or 2 way clutch based diff but it seems like what I'm looking for is a HLSD. Got the information I needed but feel free to comment with any good information regarding clutch based LSD or HLSD.

Akito86

11-21-2014, 03:55 PM

your a good child. stay humble welcome to the woooorrrrld of s chassis cha cha!

Rustys14

11-21-2014, 04:08 PM

Basically, I'm a broke ass kid who loves his S14 and is trying to learn about cars

The best option for you is going to be a vlsd then. Go to the junkyard and grab one from the lowest milage j30 you can find. A j30 vlsd is a cheap (100-200 bucks if you pull it your self) direct bolt in for your s14 that can handle the occasional clutch kick or short parking lot session with ease. Based on your previous posts it seems like that is all you really want to do so there's no need for a fancy hlsd or clutch type. You can always upgrade to a better unit later on if you decide to get more serious but a vlsd will be perfect for you right now.

Standard

11-21-2014, 05:34 PM

The op seems like good dude haha

@ifxfi- good call man, I was a little drunk when I posted that, you're posts are always solid entertainment

bmaddock

11-21-2014, 07:47 PM

The best option for you is going to be a vlsd then. Go to the junkyard and grab one from the lowest milage j30 you can find. A j30 vlsd is a cheap

The op seems like good dude haha

+1, more info on part options: http://www.ka24development.com/vlsd.html
Junkyards were my go-to for upgrades when I was in your position, oem part upgrades are good, cheap options. Good luck finding a diff dude!

KiLLeR2001

11-21-2014, 08:05 PM

Basically, I'm a broke ass kid who loves his S14 and is trying to learn about cars. I have no problem saving up to purchase quality parts where they matter. After I lowered my car a bit I needed an alignment but the stock arms didn't have enough adjustment. I could have purchased a full set of ISIS arms that would've held up great from what I understand but instead I pieced together a full SPL arm set over two months.
I may be broke and inexperienced but I still believe in trying your hardest and doing it right the first time :)

As stated above, your best bet is a J30 VLSD. Cheapest route would be to go to the junkyard and pull the entire pumpkin off of a 6 bolt J30. The 6 bolt J30 setup was 06/94+ manufactured date. So look in the cars door jamb for this information before getting dirty.

Few years back I got mine for $80 flat. Not bad.

Some may argue this point but since the J30 has the longer snout for ABS, if your S14 is non-ABS, you will need the ABS driveshaft which is a tad bit shorter. If your car is M/T, then you need the M/T ABS shaft. If its auto, you will need the auto ABS shaft.

If you don't want to get the appropriate driveshaft, then you will have to take the VLSD out of the pumpkin, remove the J30 ring gear and put it into your open differential pumpkin along with the 4.08 ring gear.

StuckeyOG

11-21-2014, 08:18 PM

your a good child. stay humble welcome to the woooorrrrld of s chassis cha cha!

The op seems like good dude haha

Thanks guys, made my day lol.

+1, more info on part options: http://www.ka24development.com/vlsd.html
Junkyards were my go-to for upgrades when I was in your position, oem part upgrades are good, cheap options. Good luck finding a diff dude!

Sweet haven't seen that site yet, much appreciated! And thanks man haha.

As stated above, your best bet is a J30 VLSD. Cheapest route would be to go to the junkyard and pull the entire pumpkin off of a 6 bolt J30. The 6 bolt J30 setup was 06/94+ manufactured date. So look in the cars door jamb for this information before getting dirty.

Some may argue this point but since the J30 has the longer snout for ABS, if your S14 is non-ABS, you will need the ABS driveshaft which is a tad bit shorter. If your car is M/T, then you need the M/T ABS shaft. If its auto, you will need the auto ABS shaft.

If you don't want to get the appropriate driveshaft, then you will have to take the VLSD out of the pumpkin, remove the J30 ring gear and put it into your open differential pumpkin along with the 4.08 ring gear.

Thanks so much! If I do go that route this will be a huge help to me and hopefully anyone else who reads through this thread.

ixfxi

11-21-2014, 09:52 PM

i cant recall the details with the j30 diff, but if it involves disassemble i say fuckit.. dont waste your time. NA z32 + j30 axles, done and done.

you guys need to remember that setting up a differential requires experience which most dont have

and if youre broke than thats even more reason NOT to fucking waste your time with this senseless car bullshit. work on getting a real job and until then, stop fucking around with this stuff.

if i was making chump change, no way in hell ide have a helical diff.

Rustys14

11-21-2014, 10:03 PM

^^^ No need to dissemble the j30 diff, it is a direct bolt in on an s14 if you get the 6 bolt variant. There is enough play in the factory driveshaft to absorb the extra length in most cars. I ran one in my non abs s14 with a non abs driveshaft awhile back with no issues at all. The only reason for dissembling that I see is to change the gear ratio but its close enough to stock that its really be worth the effort for most people.

A54

11-22-2014, 06:41 PM

Diff Life... Bump Bump

O$mo

11-22-2014, 08:43 PM

e1_griego

11-22-2014, 08:46 PM

The viscous center of a vlsd is a sealed unit. The diff fluid you put in has nothing to do with the locking properties of the center section.

Rustys14

11-22-2014, 10:20 PM

After reading this I gained a lot of knowledge thanks guys. Im totally in the same boat as you OP. I have a question though...

Is there any maintenance on a J30?

People have told me J30s are trash, due to the fact that they cant do a full track day, because J30s don't lock once they heat up. Also to compensate for that would i run a thicker weight? I have a stock KA btw.

I don't want to do a welded because I like to spend money on roodrat stuffs and not tires. Was looking at 2 ways but If a j30 can do it I don't see why not take that route.

Thanks in advance.

It is maintenance free but a J30 vlsd (or any vlsd for that matter) will not handle a full track day. They tend to heat up after a few laps on the track and turn into an open diff because the oil heats up and loses viscosity. They are great for the occasional clutch kick or quick parking lot session but if your car sees any serious track time you should go with a welded or a 2-way. If your car is mostly for daily duty and doesn't see any significant track time then a vlsd is a great choice. If your more serious then you should look into other options. Either way it is 1000x better then a open diff.

O$mo

11-22-2014, 11:10 PM

It is maintenance free but a J30 vlsd (or any vlsd for that matter) will not handle a full track day. They tend to heat up after a few laps on the track and turn into an open diff because the oil heats up and loses viscosity. They are great for the occasional clutch kick or quick parking lot session but if your car sees any serious track time you should go with a welded or a 2-way. If your car is mostly for daily duty and doesn't see any significant track time then a vlsd is a great choice. If your more serious then you should look into other options. Either way it is 1000x better then a open diff.

Its definitely my daily but when I start to hit up the track I would want more than just a few laps. Seat time is the ultimate teacher and I don't want to be sidelined because my diff needs to cool down.

I'm also reading up that depending on the oil, something like a Tomei 2 way isn't as noisy. I don't mind spending the coin so long as it preforms, and the maintenance isn't an issue either, i just don't want to sound like I popped an axle making a U-turn.

*sigh*

fatduece

11-23-2014, 01:46 AM

In terms of price, reliability, service life and engagement, Carbonetics comes in second plays? First is OS giken? Somebody help! I'd like to try the carbonetics 2 WAY with carbon plates. I just cant afford the os giken.

az_240

11-23-2014, 05:56 AM

Cusco RS is another great option that isn't too bad on low speed turns.

frizzle

11-25-2014, 12:49 PM

Is it pretty well-mannered and good for daily driving in your opinion?

I have a tomei 2way, and a carbonetic carbon 2way. For drifiting I would definatley use the Tomei.... For cruising the Carbonetic is great low speed turns are easy no noise and smooth can be used for drifting if Im too lazy to swap them out.

O$mo

11-25-2014, 01:23 PM

I have a tomei 2way, and a carbonetic carbon 2way. For drifiting I would definatley use the Tomei.... For cruising the Carbonetic is great low speed turns are easy no noise and smooth can be used for drifting if Im too lazy to swap them out.

How loud is that tomei 2 way on low speed turns? Did you have to break it in?

fatduece

11-25-2014, 05:59 PM

I have a tomei 2way, and a carbonetic carbon 2way. For drifiting I would definatley use the Tomei.... For cruising the Carbonetic is great low speed turns are easy no noise and smooth can be used for drifting if Im too lazy to swap them out.
What didn't you like about carbonetics? Was the lockup for drifting not aggressive enough?

How loud is that tomei 2 way on low speed turns? Did you have to break it in?
x2

Jcommerford92

09-22-2015, 11:43 PM

Anybody try out tomie t tracks 1.5 way?

nujabe

09-24-2015, 12:00 AM

i have a Tomei two way and its loud but im used to it..makes cool sounds lol.. it does clunk and it does require a break in. but this things locks like no other and i wouldn't want it any other way. it can be dailyed but again to what your standards are can be different. i also dont daily my car any more. i do use cheapy fluid with ford friction modifier with good results.

kashira kureijii

09-24-2015, 12:07 PM

^ +1, I have a tomei 2 way as well, and it seems very durable, and was super easy to put in,
especially if you have someone experienced with diffs do it
installing the actual diff into the pumpkin takes about 20 minutes,
taking out the pumpkin and putting it back in is annoying as fuck tho
especially when you forget to tie up the driveline, and it falls down and whacks
you right in your fucking eyebrow, blood everywhere man :facepalm:
I have a cool scar now though:naughty:

Tomei is loud as fuck, but corners well when you want to corner, and drifts well
when you want to drift

zombiewolf513

09-24-2015, 12:15 PM

Tomei two way. 100%, final answer.
It's a little loud at first but it quiets down quite a bit until it needs fresh oil

206sx

09-24-2015, 12:21 PM

s15 helical is the way to go for a daily

dorkidori_s13

09-24-2015, 12:24 PM

s15 helical is the way to go for a daily

This, this, this... Did I mention THIS?!

RB25GUY

11-02-2015, 07:21 AM

I love my ATS deftforce 2 way before i blew my RB25 up i daily drove my s13 with the deftorce , GT3076r 380-440whp depending on my boost setting for 3 years changed the diff fluid twice put about 25k on the diff took it apart brought it to a rear end shop that specializes in transmissions and rear ends since the car is apart and getting rebuilt , guy looked at me like i was dumb he said this looks like it only has a couple thousand miles on it why did you take it out? anyways it clunks like nobody's business so be prepared to have idiots give you that WHY DO YOU HATE YOUR CAR SO MUCH look on tight turns in parking lots but on the other hand The lock is instant and with time getting use to it the predictability off and on throttle is unrivaled soo much more control its pretty amazing, in the rain the rear tends to bite the pavement alot so casual rear end movement(sliding) is expected but like i said its all controllable and predictable. A+ as far as performance, longevity, fun factor.