STL Riots

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Wondering how many people on here are watching this and if anyone is listening to the scanners tonight...its getting heavy. Armed groups walking down the street, multiple shots fired, looting every night, curfew enforced...

Download "Scanner radio" app and tune into St. Louis County Police Dispatch - 1st Pct. and get a real picture of whats going on...

Whats your opinions and what you have seen or heard

[Matej]

This fellow sums it up quite well:
http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/11/police-officers-arent-the-ones-destroying-the-black-community/

[Bushido]

tSGtalHH6hE

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Yes Ferguson, which is St. Louis County

[feito]

If all the clips from this video are real, it's a pretty messed up situation:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e25_1408413667
And even if not all them are, this has gone too far. Looting and rioting is not necessary, all these people are just using it the situation as an excuse. Cops "mistakenly" kill innocent and not so innocent people all the time, but god forbids that person happens to be black because all hell breaks loose...
Last year a local college student was wrongfully shot and killed by a campus police officer. He was white. And guess what? Yupp, no rioting nor looting.
They need to be stopped, and they are asking for more force.

[J3123MY]

I read someone's comment on youtube about how in the long run this rioting is a good thing for America. Now I do not quite completely agree, but I understand his point.

Civil unrest is part of our duty, believe it or not. The government has been fucking everyone for way too long. By causing "chaos" from their actions, Ferguson demonstrated that they will not take government bull shit. However, I understand that this was essentially selfishly motivated to come up from looting.

But this reaction, I believe is better than none. It demonstrates to the government that people are still not afraid to stand up. If you anger the community, there will be a reaction. Reminds the police to think carefully about just wasting someone. Reminds the government to remember who their true boss is.

And feito, is it a good thing that a local college student was wrongfully shot and killed by a campus police officer and to not have a reaction?

Imagine if every time an innocent person was shot by the pigs and there was no reaction to it? They would think it is perfectly ok to go around killing people because people won't do anything.

I would definitely rather there be rioting, chaos, and looting than no reaction at all. That in the long run is better for America.

Of course, rioting could probably be done without looting. But I mean, if your a business owner, buy yourself a gun and shoot some fuckers trying to loot you. That will definitely make them think twice about hitting your store.

[stevenrapids]

Ya, and once the store owner shoots someone trying to loot from his/her store it turns into "unarmed man shot" bs all over the media. Its all a load of bull shit.

[Bushido]

another dude was shot and killed last night by police.

doesn't look like it's coolin down over there anytime soon...

pretty fucked up that police are targeting the press too.

[spools420a]

They need to get over the bullshit that cops are after black americans gimmie a break,This is why people are racist and its kinda hard not to be when you see these jackasses looting and destroying there own shit because a guy decided to strong arm rob a store and got killed.:facepalm:

they just use it as an excuse to start drama.People need to relise that mistakes are made and not to go on a rampage over one stupid incodent.

[YOSHIKOUKI]

the cop that killed him had no clue of him robbing that store and does stealing deserve for him to be shot 6 times and killed. He should've been arrest and let the justice system take over from there. Police are not employed to kill people ,theyre here to protect and serve, killing a person no matter what they've done is unacceptable thats why we have the justice system

[STL240SXDRIFT]

^ The cop was punched in the face by Mike Brown rupturing his eye socket before he got out of the car, they say...kid ran then turned around back at cop to charge him, then cop fired 6 rounds. Don't quote me for facts, this is just what I am reading...no one will really know until witnesses come forward.

Something that bothers me is that Ferguson PD has dash cams for all their cars...still in the box...at the station. They were never installed...idiots.

[YOSHIKOUKI]

Now I totally agree that this dude was a punk thug trynna be tough but no matter what he definitely didn't deserve to die he shouldve been arrested and thrown in jail not shot 6 times...from the autopsy report it says that these shots were not from close range but from far....He was shot from behind and also from the front but like u said we won't know until witnesses come forward and confirm the officers story...yeah they definitely shouldve had those cameras installed smh smh

[stevenrapids]

Looting/rioting makes us look like a bunch of uncivilized fools. Everything turns into a race issue way too fast. If Mike Brown would have killed the cop what would have happened? it probably wouldnt have made it past the local news. Put yourself in law enforcements shoes and tell me you wouldnt fire if you felt your life was in danger.

[Matej]

fucked up that police are targeting the press too.
Some of the members of the press are there breaking the imposed curfew along with the rioters and instigating ill will just so they have exciting news to cover.

[YOSHIKOUKI]

Looting/rioting makes us look like a bunch of uncivilized fools. Everything turns into a race issue way too fast. If Mike Brown would have killed the cop what would have happened? it probably wouldnt have made it past the local news. Put yourself in law enforcements shoes and tell me you wouldnt fire if you felt your life was in danger.
Yeah I agree we definitely shouldn't be rioting n looting smh but protest is a good thing but I really don't think it's about race it's about these cops shooting to kill people r fed up...just like the two black cops n NY that beat a man and people are outraged by it and want the police to stop harassing people over BS I should be able to walk drive jog ride my bike without being harassed because I "LOOK" a certain way...and they're trained to protect themselves yes and they should when in "danger" there's no way an unarmed teenager can make a grown man feel that scared for his life to where he has to shoot him six times n kill him...He didn't have to kill him is all I'm saying

[Kuma]

But I mean, if your a business owner, buy yourself a gun and shoot some fuckers trying to loot you. That will definitely make them think twice about hitting your store.

That is a terrible idea. If you're a business owner, purchase insurance. When a mob of angry looting rioters start destroying your business, GTFO with your life and collect insurance. Even if you have extensive firepower, you can easily be overwhelmed by a large enough mob. Not to mention those who will come for revenge for their fallen loved ones. It's not like it's your home...

[J3123MY]

That is a terrible idea. If you're a business owner, purchase insurance. When a mob of angry looting rioters start destroying your business, GTFO with your life and collect insurance. Even if you have extensive firepower, you can easily be overwhelmed by a large enough mob. Not to mention those who will come for revenge for their fallen loved ones. It's not like it's your home...

LOL. Ever heard of the Koreans during the LA Riots?

So its a terrible idea to protect whats yours? Sure its dangerous, or you could just be a bitch and get looted. I don't know about you, but if I was in the situation, I would stay and protect my store, which I am legally allowed to, that I put blood,sweat, and tears in.

You seriously think that a large mob, that has to single file through your door, is down for the people in front to get mowed down? Fuck no. You shoot several of them and they will not visit your store again.

[theronin]

I think it's easy to play keyboard warrior and cop when you aren't in the situation. Noone of us know exactly how it went down, and we may never know. I hope that justice is done and people find closure in all of this. Mistakes were probably made by both sides, well because we are all human and we do make mistakes.

[TMW]

Noone of us know exactly how it went down, and we may never know.

exactly...

but even though we're not totally sure what happened with brown, the problem is the police have way too much power. im sure all of you that have been following whats going on in ferguson have seen everything about the 'militarization of the police'. theyre driving around in armored cars with mounted turrets...

http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/ferguson-police-2.jpg?w=1680

they can pretty much get away with anything they want nowadays. so i think its good that there is some reaction to an incident like this and that were all talking about it now. im not justifying looting or saying its the right way of going about it, im just saying it shouldn't be such a normal and mundane thing when the police shoot and kill someone who's unarmed that nothing is done about it.

[theronin]

What about when the rioters shot a civilian, and the police went in under fire to rescue and treat them? Normal cop cars wouldn't be able to take much direct fire. What happens if it's found that Mike Brown did assault and beat the cop, and shooting him was completely justified? People scream for the cops head on a platter while in the next breath say that Mike Brown was innocent until proven guilty...

[YOSHIKOUKI]

^^^^^ smh smh they're geared up as if they're about to go to war smh although I don't condone the rioting n looting cus really that shit ain't got nothing to do with Mike brown at this point...but ur right the police have way to much power and they exercise that power on a daily basis especially here in Cali

[YOSHIKOUKI]

What about when the rioters shot a civilian, and the police went in under fire to rescue and treat them? Normal cop cars wouldn't be able to take much direct fire. What happens if it's found that Mike Brown did assault and beat the cop, and shooting him was completely justified? People scream for the cops head on a platter while in the next breath say that Mike Brown was innocent until proven guilty...
Even if he did assault him it doesn't deserve for him to be SHOT 6 TIMES and killed, use a tazer, shoot him n the leg I mean the kid was unarmed n probably did take a swing but that officer is a trained specialist on how to apprehend criminals without killing them, especially unarmed and if he can't use his training to resolve the situation without having to kill...he/she needs to find a new job

[TMW]

What about when the rioters shot a civilian, and the police went in under fire to rescue and treat them? Normal cop cars wouldn't be able to take much direct fire.

i havent read or heard about this. do you have a link to the story? would like to read.

What happens if it's found that Mike Brown did assault and beat the cop, and shooting him was completely justified? People scream for the cops head on a platter while in the next breath say that Mike Brown was innocent until proven guilty...

thats why i quoted your previous post and agreed... we're not totally sure what happened and what prompted him to shoot him SIX times.

and the reason why people are angry at the officer and want it to be a criminal investigation is because these kinds of incidents seem to be getting more and more common with absolutely no accountability or repercussions for their actions. cops should be held to a higher standard. they're public servants that are paid by the tax payer. the penalties for doing anything to a police officer are way more severe than if the same crime were done to a normal citizen.

if someone were to ever shoot a police officer six times with no arrest/criminal investigation being done afterwards, im sure it would be just as big of a deal...

seriously, do you think if michael brown shot the police officer six times because he was allegedly assaulting him you would be saying "well maybe we'll find out the police officer had it coming to him and everything was totally justified" no... and brown would be serving life

[theronin]

i havent read or heard about this. do you have a link to the story? would like to read.



thats why i quoted your previous post and agreed... we're not totally sure what happened and what prompted him to shoot him SIX times.

and the reason why people are angry at the officer and want it to be a criminal investigation is because these kinds of incidents seem to be getting more and more common with absolutely no accountability or repercussions for their actions. cops should be held to a higher standard. they're public servants that are paid by the tax payer. the penalties for doing anything to a police officer are way more severe than if the same crime were done to a normal citizen.

if someone were to ever shoot a police officer six times with no arrest/criminal investigation being done afterwards, im sure it would be just as big of a deal...

seriously, do you think if michael brown shot the police officer six times because he was allegedly assaulting him you would be saying "well maybe we'll find out the police officer had it coming to him and everything was totally justified" no... and brown would be serving life
It was in an on scene interview with the newly appointed chief of police. No surprise it isn't widely known, that would go against oh so many agendas

[Kuma]

LOL. Ever heard of the Koreans during the LA Riots?

So its a terrible idea to protect whats yours? Sure its dangerous, or you could just be a bitch and get looted. I don't know about you, but if I was in the situation, I would stay and protect my store, which I am legally allowed to, that I put blood,sweat, and tears in.

You seriously think that a large mob, that has to single file through your door, is down for the people in front to get mowed down? Fuck no. You shoot several of them and they will not visit your store again.

The LA riots were a special circumstance. the Koreans fought together... and their stores still got fucked up. You as a lone shop owner would not fair the same. Let's say you fended them off. You better pack up and move because even after the riot, you would not be safe. They wouldn't just forget about you killing their family members. People with that mindset would say their brother, sister, son, daughter, etc was justified in rioting... but you the racist shop owner killed them...

[feito]

I read someone's comment on youtube about how in the long run this rioting is a good thing for America. Now I do not quite completely agree, but I understand his point.

Civil unrest is part of our duty, believe it or not. The government has been fucking everyone for way too long. By causing "chaos" from their actions, Ferguson demonstrated that they will not take government bull shit. However, I understand that this was essentially selfishly motivated to come up from looting.

But this reaction, I believe is better than none. It demonstrates to the government that people are still not afraid to stand up. If you anger the community, there will be a reaction. Reminds the police to think carefully about just wasting someone. Reminds the government to remember who their true boss is.

And feito, is it a good thing that a local college student was wrongfully shot and killed by a campus police officer and to not have a reaction?

Imagine if every time an innocent person was shot by the pigs and there was no reaction to it? They would think it is perfectly ok to go around killing people because people won't do anything.

I would definitely rather there be rioting, chaos, and looting than no reaction at all. That in the long run is better for America.

Of course, rioting could probably be done without looting. But I mean, if your a business owner, buy yourself a gun and shoot some fuckers trying to loot you. That will definitely make them think twice about hitting your store.
I guess you are right in a way. It aint right for us not to do anything when an innocent civilian gets shot by the police, especially when it keeps happening. But, if you are pissed at the police or your authorities, why dont you go after them then? Go break into the city hall and the police stations and shi+
LOL. Ever heard of the Koreans during the LA Riots?

So its a terrible idea to protect whats yours? Sure its dangerous, or you could just be a bitch and get looted. I don't know about you, but if I was in the situation, I would stay and protect my store, which I am legally allowed to, that I put blood,sweat, and tears in.

You seriously think that a large mob, that has to single file through your door, is down for the people in front to get mowed down? Fuck no. You shoot several of them and they will not visit your store again.

You see, even if for any reason I could stop them/scare them off on my own, maybe by killing a few and somehow the rest of them decide to back off, they will eventually come back, and they will hunt you at your house or wherever they can find you because like someone else said, that's their mentality, eventhou they know they're on the wrong they'll sick revenge. And you know what the difference between these kind of people (NOTE: kind, not race) and us is? These people are not afraid of prison, in their mentality they'll do a few years like doing college, and they'll come out being better criminals.

[zeitgeist]

Pointing fully automatic weapons is a very bad idea. You want to win the population not make them hate you even more
we only learned this after 15 years in afghanistan

I'm glad these protests and rioting are happening. Unfortunate this kid had to die to wake up the nation on the militarization police forces. Police need to start being held accountable, and trained not to use deadly force as the first option. They do it because it's easy to get away with

And where's the NRA/OpenCarry/Tea Party militias? Isn't this the exact scenario theyve been preaching about for years? I know why

[STL240SXDRIFT]

People have been protecting their stores in Ferguson like this

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/tattoo-parlor.jpg

[theronin]

Pointing fully automatic weapons is a very bad idea. You want to win the population not make them hate you even more
we only learned this after 15 years in afghanistan

I'm glad these protests and rioting are happening. Unfortunate this kid had to die to wake up the nation on the militarization police forces. Police need to start being held accountable, and trained not to use deadly force as the first option. They do it because it's easy to get away with

And where's the NRA/OpenCarry/Tea Party militias? Isn't this the exact scenario theyve been preaching about for years? I know why
You wouldn't be glad these riots were happening if they were in your town.

[Matej]

Unfortunate this kid had to die to wake up the nation on the militarization police forces.
The guy was some scumbag hooligan wannabe thug and I am pretty sure the officer did not just decide to shoot him for no reason. Bet all the individuals painting Michael Brown as a saint are the same people who would think twice about sitting next to him on public transportation late at night.
I am against the police as much as the next law-abiding resident, but this is not the right incident to rally behind.

[OutlawLui]

Black people are the real racist.

[ixfxi]

sEuZiTcbGCg

The guy was some scumbag hooligan wannabe thug and I am pretty sure the officer did not just decide to shoot him for no reason. Bet all the individuals painting Michael Brown as a saint are the same people who would think twice about sitting next to him on public transportation late at night.
I am against the police as much as the next law-abiding resident, but this is not the right incident to rally behind.

.........


..................

[theronin]

sEuZiTcbGCg



.........


..................
What about it?

[TMW]

What about it?

Are you serious?

[Corbic]

Are you serious?

Regardless of whatever - People need to understand a few things.

Most officers are poorly trained when it comes to using a fire-arm. Departments typically require some in class training and annual qualification. Qualification is typically shoot 5 rounds into a man-size target at 15 feet and demonstrate you can reload and properly draw your weapon.

:facepalm:

There is also the adrenaline factor. Everyone is yelling, tense, weapons draw and "pop". This is why most cops struggle when asked "who fired first" or "why did you fire"? Someone fired... then they all fire, many times pulling the trigger until the target is visually down or they are out of ammo.

30 years ago out of ammo met 5-7 shots total. (Revolvers, 1911). Today, out of ammo means 12-17 shots... each. This is why you see "cops fired 37 times..." or "suspect shot 6 times".

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/18/us/SUB-JP-BROWN-2/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-master495.jpg

Notice these are all terrible shot placement. It was not like the cop shot him 6 times in the chest. Those arm wounds are non-life threatening and would have done little to deter a close range assailant. Also, in the video, notice how fast those shots are fired. It's not long-range sniper stuff. Popopopop..... *guy falls down*

This isn't to excuse any of these cops - it's to explain why this stuff happens the way it does.

Several studies actually showed cops accuracy dropped dramatically with the transition from Revolvers to Semi-Autos and accidental firing, injury and other such incidence have increased.

http://americancopmagazine.com/legacy-when-cops-carried-revolvers/


This will blow your mind - China will start letting police cary fire arms...
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/04/24/chinas-police-will-carry-guns-unlike-any-others/

[J3123MY]

What about it?

Wow. Fucking cunt pigs. You're not suppose to shoot someone just because they told you to...

I have been told this by a pig. The reason every pig opens fire is to support the person who fired the first shot. When every pig shoots, it shows that all of them thought theirs or someone else's life was threatened.

Other cops will get mad at you if they opened fire and you did not, because it demonstrates that you thought there was no threat. Ever hear of the blue shield? Gangster pigs out to get us. Watch out.

Did you guys hear about the bank robbers in Stockton? The bank robbers took a hostage and all the pigs turned them into swiss cheese, including the hostage. So if someone takes you as a hostage, you better pray the cops don't show up.

[TMW]

Corbic, I'm not sure if what you just posted is relevant to the post of mine you quoted. As far as cops shooting people lots of times, that wasn't really what I was on about.

I assume you watched the video... I'm not trying to totally take what you said out of context, but you're not trying to justify what happened in that video just because of poor training and an adrenaline factor are you? Why did the officer even have to fire at all is the real question, not why did they fire almost 10 times. Again, I'm referring to the video not the Brown incident.

[Corbic]

Another thing worth noting, as the news is bitching about it...

Black Cops.

The news made a squawk about how there are not enough black cops in Fergy land. Back in school we covered this general problem ad nauseam as there has been lots of research in the last 30 years on it.

A. It's hard to find qualified canadits. To be a police officer you have to graduate high school, have a clean police record, never have done drugs (been caught), be at least 20-21 and many areas now require some form of a post high school degree.

1 in 15 Black men is in jail and 1 in 3 is likely to be arrested at some point in his life. Those individuals that do qualify - having remained out of trouble, gone to school entered college - typically want NOTHING TO DO WITH Law Enforcement. They see better opportunities else where.

B. It doesn't do shit. Black offers actually play right into the stereo type of "cops go easy on whites and hard on colors". This is two fold -

First it's the "your making us look back" mentality. A black cop worked hard together and likely has an axel to grind with all the gang-bangers and trouble makers from his home town. He's not about to cut some punk slack just because they share skin-tone. Many interviewed officers say they are just tired of these kids and trouble makers making the community look bad. Additionally, black officers don't want to make trouble, so they often go easier on white suspects because last thing they want to deal with is a "omfg mean black cop yelled at my blonde daughter" non-sense.

Second - Brotherhood. For any cop, fellow cops become family. For black officers, blue becomes the new skin tone. Their fellow cops, whether white or brown or black mean more then whatever racial community they come from and they act accordingly.

C. Uncle Tom - believe it or not, while the communities often cry how unfair it is and how they want more representation from their own racial group - those cops from the area that are that same genetic background then get treated like crap. Many of these communities hate the police and to see a "black man" acting like a "white cop" just enrages them as a "kid from the suburbs coming into the hood" does. These black officers get treated especially harshly and in turn grow bitter to their own community which goes back to Reason A and B

D. Fuck this shit : Politicians often want cops to be from where they police. Thats cool in a nice upscale community* but as a cop, the last thing you wan to be is living next to the meth house or gang-club that you just raided. Worse yet, you know what a shit hole areas are so you don't want your family anywhere near it. It's a safety issue. So even if you higher local black officers, they quickly get the hell out of dodge.

Basically 30 years of research shows that the issue is not one of race. People assume a black-cop will get along with an understand a black community better. The problem isn't skin color but culture and context. A black cop is still a cop and sees the world as a cop. The community, regardless of race, still sees the world the way they do - so gang bangers are still bangers, hipster and tree huggers are still pussies and meth heads are still tweakers. So no mater what, that divide still exists.

* it's also hard to "community police" upscale areas as cops can't afford to live in those areas - but then we don't hear people crying about needing more cops to live in those communities... :picardfp:

[Matej]

Are you serious?
There are a bunch of other black people in the video. How come they did not shoot them all for no reason?

Suicide by police is actually more common than one may think. Legally, they have a right to shoot you for the slightest movement indicating you are intending to touch them or reach for their weapon. Yes, it is kind of silly how scared they apparently are of everyone, but at the same time people should know better than to approach them when being screamed at not to.

The guy had a knife by the way, if you cannot tell from the video.

[TMW]

There are a bunch of other black people in the video. How come they did not shoot them all for no reason?

Suicide by police is actually more common than one may think. Legally, they have a right to shoot you for the slightest movement indicating you are intending to touch them or reach for their weapon. Yes, it is kind of silly how scared they apparently are of everyone, but at the same time people should know better than to approach them when being screamed at not to.

The guy had a knife by the way, if you cannot tell from the video.

Yes, I read he had a knife. I didn't say if anything about the officer's legal right to shoot the man.

Obviously, there will not be any repercussions for killing the man because it was justified and the right thing to do...

If you seriously think that the best way to handle that situation was to fill the guy full of lead just because he walked toward them then maybe you should pursue a career in law enforcement. There was definitely no way the officers could have diffused the situation or used non-lethal force. Right?

Quick edit: As far as this being a racial incident, I don't really think it is. If the guy was white they would have probably shot him just as many times.

[ixfxi]

im just surprised at the discussion here....

dude got shot and killed... i mean, cops filled him full of lead.

so.


cop A and B never thought once of shooting the guy in the leg?

its a fucking KNIFE, not a nuclear bomb. cap the guy ONCE in the leg, he's down and out... problem solved.

nope. lets kill the motherfucker.

anyway, i hate offtopic. i just wanted to add that video since i stumbled into it today.

[Matej]

If you seriously think that the best way to handle that situation was to fill the guy full of lead just because he walked toward them then maybe you should pursue a career in law enforcement. There was definitely no way the officers could have diffused the situation or used non-lethal force. Right?
cop A and B never thought once of shooting the guy in the leg?

its a fucking KNIFE, not a nuclear bomb. cap the guy ONCE in the leg, he's down and out... problem solved.

nope. lets kill the motherfucker.
The ironic thing is that my brother just graduated from the police academy a few weeks ago and the guys in the video did everything they were taught by the book. This is exactly the kind of stuff they trained. Take out the threat as quickly as possible with multiple shots to make sure they do not retaliate. Do not aim for the legs because it is a tough shot to make in the heat of the moment, plus while you are looking down you can lose track of what they are doing with their hands. Apparently when someone is pumped full of adrenaline, it may take multiple shots in the legs to take them down, which is especially risky when they are a few steps away from you, or whatever, I am not the expert.

I never said I agree with their methods. In fact, I find most of them ridiculous and over the top and I think police officers act like sissies who are constantly afraid of everyone so they shoot as soon as someone looks at them wrong, just in case. But at the same time, if you think that you can approach a cop with a knife and they are going to baby talk you out of it or something, then good luck. Why give them a reason to point their guns at you in the first place?

[theronin]

im just surprised at the discussion here....

dude got shot and killed... i mean, cops filled him full of lead.

so.


cop A and B never thought once of shooting the guy in the leg?

its a fucking KNIFE, not a nuclear bomb. cap the guy ONCE in the leg, he's down and out... problem solved.

nope. lets kill the motherfucker.

anyway, i hate offtopic. i just wanted to add that video since i stumbled into it today.
This isn't the movies you don't aim for the legs or arms. Cop shoots someone in the leg, he gets sued. You don't approach a cop brandishing a knife either.

[TMW]

Lol, I was just reading over this thread and thought, "Either Matej or someone in his family is a cop..."

So, The Atlantic posted an article about the incident that quoted another journalist who said what I have quoted below. I think it somewhat captures what I think about what happened. And about the police "baby talking you out of it", the police should have some skills in talking to people who are agitated and angry and know how to not make a bad situation that much worse. The police should protect and serve not just kill a guy and drag his corpse off when someone calls about a disturbance/domestic dispute.

The police arrive and instantly escalate the situation... Powell looks sick more than he looks dangerous. But the police draw their weapons as soon as they exit their car... They don't seem to know how to stop Powell, save for using deadly force. But all Powell had was a steak knife. If the police had been in their car, with the windows rolled up, he could have done little to hurt them...

...Even when he advances on police, he walks, rather than runs... He swings his arms normally, rather than entering into a fighting stance. They begin yelling at him to stop. And when they begin shooting, they shoot to kill—even continuing to shoot when Powell is motionless on the ground. There is no warning shot, even. It does not seem like it should be so easy to take a life.

[1 88 U]

Guy in the video aprouched the cops with a knife. The shooting was justified.
Brown was stopped for Jay walking, hurt a cops pride by tussling his arm away and was chased down and executed. Not justified.

[WheelWhore]

Dont know what happened with Brown. Given the video of the convenient store, who knows?


The guy with the steak knife? Yeah, should have been tasered. That incident could have gone a million times differently. Its almost like they showed up anticipating it.

On the other hand, the fool stole from the store and then waited like he was some kind of martyr or had something to prove to the cops.

While he does make mention of social media and it looked like a stint, its just all around bad news...

[KiLLeR2001]

Super soaker filled with bear mace would have solved the problem with the charging knife lunatic.

[zeitgeist]

You wouldn't be glad these riots were happening if they were in your town.
No I wouldn't, however if its for the good of the nation and the rights of the people, i'd for damn sure be out there protesting as well, my neighborhood or not

The guy was some scumbag hooligan wannabe thug and I am pretty sure the officer did not just decide to shoot him for no reason. Bet all the individuals painting Michael Brown as a saint are the same people who would think twice about sitting next to him on public transportation late at night.
I am against the police as much as the next law-abiding resident, but this is not the right incident to rally behind.
I don't give a damn if he was a scumbag, a saint or whatever. Police don't have the right to act as executioner of an unarmed civilian. A lack of police accountability leads to the perversion of the law
And no this may not be the ideal event to act behind, but it's waking up the nation to the idea of police militarization and excess of force

Black people are the real racist.
everyone is racist

im just surprised at the discussion here....

dude got shot and killed... i mean, cops filled him full of lead.

so.

cop A and B never thought once of shooting the guy in the leg?

its a fucking KNIFE, not a nuclear bomb. cap the guy ONCE in the leg, he's down and out... problem solved.

nope. lets kill the motherfucker.

Mace would have been quite efficient. Or a tazer. But cops like to use bullets in the poor communities more

The ironic thing is that my brother just graduated from the police academy a few weeks ago and the guys in the video did everything they were taught by the book. This is exactly the kind of stuff they trained. Take out the threat as quickly as possible with multiple shots to make sure they do not retaliate. Do not aim for the legs because it is a tough shot to make in the heat of the moment, plus while you are looking down you can lose track of what they are doing with their hands. Apparently when someone is pumped full of adrenaline, it may take multiple shots in the legs to take them down, which is especially risky when they are a few steps away from you, or whatever, I am not the expert.

I never said I agree with their methods. In fact, I find most of them ridiculous and over the top and I think police officers act like sissies who are constantly afraid of everyone so they shoot as soon as someone looks at them wrong, just in case. But at the same time, if you think that you can approach a cop with a knife and they are going to baby talk you out of it or something, then good luck. Why give them a reason to point their guns at you in the first place?

Escalation of force is the answer. How often do most police use this anymore? They don't have to because they get away with shooting a motherfucker in the dome as first response.
Lack of accountability from the public

This isn't the movies you don't aim for the legs or arms. Cop shoots someone in the leg, he gets sued. You don't approach a cop brandishing a knife either.
I completely agree. If someone comes at you with a lethal weapon, kill the asshole
Vid of the most recent shooting. 9 shots? Plenty of time for a tazer
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6051377/video-st-louis-police-shooting-Kajieme-Powell

[theronin]

No I wouldn't, however if its for the good of the nation and the rights of the people, i'd for damn sure be out there protesting as well, my neighborhood or not


I don't give a damn if he was a scumbag, a saint or whatever. Police don't have the right to act as executioner of an unarmed civilian. A lack of police accountability leads to the perversion of the law
And no this may not be the ideal event to act behind, but it's waking up the nation to the idea of police militarization and excess of force


everyone is racist


Mace would have been quite efficient. Or a tazer. But cops like to use bullets in the poor communities more



Escalation of force is the answer. How often do most police use this anymore? They don't have to because they get away with shooting a motherfucker in the dome as first response.
Lack of accountability from the public


I completely agree. If someone comes at you with a lethal weapon, kill the asshole
So many contradictions in your post.

[zeitgeist]

please explain
I even provided you a video of the recent shooting

[silviasandbeer]

Theres a petition on whitehouse DOT gov that you can sign asking that all police officers have to wear a camera on them so that all this bull shit isnt always speculation

maybe some one should make a thread about that instead of a 25 yr car import law

if you dont recognize that the police in this country is getting out of hand and have entirely to much power and ZERO accountability than your not paying attension

im not black but even i reliaze that the black community have a history of opression in this country (dUHHH)

JAMES HOLMES who killed 12 people was arrested and brought out with some dignity by police officers... the media even showed his high school grad picture and tried to say he was a good kid....

mike brown was shot and killed and witnesses all say the same thing
he had his hands up saying "dont shoot"

and the media is showing the absolute worst pictures of him found on the internet loll we all have bad pictures that make us out to look like a thug, doesnt mean we are one


remeber the trayvon martin shit, all they seemed to care about was that he was suspended from school and smoke weed once or twice, who the fuck hasnt honestly... does that make you a thug
so to say that people are just "using the race card" or to even hint that race had nothing to do with mike browns murder is having rose colored glasses

people dont just wake up saying, Gee, i sure hope i get to use my race card today


as stated above, its not exactly a good thing people are rioting BUT if they didnt it would show that they werent concerned about the issue... woudnt you be fucking pissed off if your cousin/brother/friend or whatever was murdered? what would you do exactly?

[Corbic]

if you dont recognize that the police in this country is getting out of hand and have entirely to much power and ZERO accountability than your not paying attension







Accept police will argue the world is an ever more dangerous place.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

In 2012 Wiki estimates "nearly" 400 people where killed by police - many none of us would argue clearly deserved it.

You can see the link above - 122 officers where killed by people in 2012.


As for cameras, great - whose paying for them?

Second- it won't do shit to stop the Monday night quarterbacking and bitching about race.

[Corbic]

remeber the trayvon martin shit, all they seemed to care about was that he was suspended from school and smoke weed once or twice, who the fuck hasnt honestly... does that make you a thug






Yeah whatever. It was to show he was a trouble making thug that got in a fist fight with zims. Not an innocent alter boy gun down by a Neo nazi Klan member.

Remember how the media made a huge deal about how that "mix race ker " Zimmerman was supposedly white? How they edited the 911 tapes to make it sound like he was following him cause "he looks black!"....leaving out the operators request to know the suspects race...

[VROOOM]

The ironic thing is that my brother just graduated from the police academy a few weeks ago and the guys in the video did everything they were taught by the book. This is exactly the kind of stuff they trained. Take out the threat as quickly as possible with multiple shots to make sure they do not retaliate. Do not aim for the legs because it is a tough shot to make in the heat of the moment, plus while you are looking down you can lose track of what they are doing with their hands. Apparently when someone is pumped full of adrenaline, it may take multiple shots in the legs to take them down, which is especially risky when they are a few steps away from you, or whatever, I am not the expert.

I never said I agree with their methods. In fact, I find most of them ridiculous and over the top and I think police officers act like sissies who are constantly afraid of everyone so they shoot as soon as someone looks at them wrong, just in case. But at the same time, if you think that you can approach a cop with a knife and they are going to baby talk you out of it or something, then good luck. Why give them a reason to point their guns at you in the first place?

exactly, eliminate the threat

[VROOOM]

a cop was almost beat to death at the mall 3 miles from my house a week ago. even people with no weapons can be dangerous. the cop probably would have died if it wasnt for a citizen who pushed the guy off the cop.

[1 88 U]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFddlI9QHJk#t=18

[silviasandbeer]

[QUOTE=Corbic;5706721]Accept police will argue the world is an ever more dangerous place.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

As for cameras, great - whose paying for them?

QUOTE]

grants?
maybe taxes, id feel great knowing that my tax money would go to this
if we can pay billions for rockets and tanks and the war can we not fund this??

no it wont stop armchair reporters, but thats not the point of the cameras..
its to hold some one accountable in the justice system, not to please some dumbass who complains about the system but does nothing about it



and i wouldnt dismiss the race/class issue as "bitching"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7XX_jI0PI

watch that... she makes valid points
she also mentions Rilato CA police department and how they have cameras on each officer and police complaints about misconduct have dropped dramatically

[DRIFTER-M]

Regardless of where one stands on this issue, there is some strong misinformation in this thread.

- I can tell you I have witness cops profile every color, sometimes it has to do with age and time, sometimes race, whatever. They are taught statistics and look for that. This is fair, its part of life and keeping communities safe. I have been wrongly harassed before, it ended up being just fine. I may have been angered at the time of the irritation, however after I calmed down I could rationalize why - the officer is simply doing their job.

- Applying more tax money elsewhere would be a nightmare being we are further and further in a drowning pool of national debt and our schools continue to take a large beating with funding. No offense, but it is fairly obvious you are young when a comment like that is made.

- People need to be VERY wary of media coverage of events like this. They ABSOLUTELY have agendas and do studies to learn how to gain viewers and attention. Regardless of which side was wrong, 2 cases in this very thread which have been mentioned - Brown and Martin were both STRONGLY mishandled by the national media to create outrage and controversy which ups their ratings, viewership, and coverage exposure and it's probably worthy to note that if you study up on politicians involvement with national media sources you may be surprised at the findings and may understand some of the bias that exist in reporting today.

Example: The media portraying Brown as a "Kid", he was 18 years old 292 pounds and 6 foot 4? Robbed a store, so clearly didn't make wonderful life or logically impressive decisions. 18 is a legal adult, strong armed robbery is a felony. He was an adult felon. How does "Cop shoots adult felon in self-defense" sound? Not like much of a major headline.

Example 2: In the Martin case showing pictures when he was between 12-14, showing a picture of Zimmerman in orange (tricking the mind into thinking prison uniform), portraying him as white, editing 911 tapes, he was carrying "tea", etc.

The media absolutely sparks much of the controversy that exist today, it helps their business.

- Wrongs absolutely happen within the police force, and many today are quick to point fingers and throw the flag. I do feel many are on a power trip, and at times overstep their boundaries. What's funny is the amount of people who would probably (though never admittedly) would never have the BALLS to do the job they do. Every day they face a danger, when they pull over a car for speeding, who knows if that guy is packing drugs and has a Glock under the front seat. They could get a call to a shooting and instantly put their life in danger to help others. So many more instances that we would probably absolutely freeze in, or even pee ourselves in if it happened to us. That doesn't excuse it however - the ones who do abuse the badge. The problem is this particular case has no proof to support that.

- Statistics show (like has already been said in this thread prior) that when instances of self defense occur, especially when one is surprised by incident and not expecting it, the amount of shots can increase, inaccuracy goes up, loss of memory, etc. Adrenaline among panic does funny stuff to the human brain and body, anybody who has ever been in a traumatic circumstance can tell you that. It is also a basic foundation of psychology when dealing with instances of trauma.

- Not all of the witness statements said he did nothing, by the way. In fact - the most important of all witness statements (made by the friend of Brown) has been completely blown up by evidence and autopsy findings. There are a mix of witness reports, some of which absolutely coincide with the Police forces side of the story.

I am not one for strong militarization of our police force, strong central government, this that and the other. I think our constitution is ran over today, the whole reason our founding fathers formed the states and created America serves no purpose anymore and that is SCARY. I think it is humorous that many of the people who don't want the "militarization" of the police force are the same people who are fine with the gun control laws. The whole reason the founding fathers wanted the right to bare arms was to protect against an all empowering oppressive government - how's that for a knowledge drop?

[HORShi]

Accept police will argue the world is an ever more dangerous place.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

As for cameras, great - whose paying for them?



grants?
maybe taxes, id feel great knowing that my tax money would go to this
if we can pay billions for rockets and tanks and the war can we not fund this??

no it wont stop armchair reporters, but thats not the point of the cameras..
its to hold some one accountable in the justice system, not to please some dumbass who complains about the system but does nothing about it



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7XX_jI0PI

watch that... she makes valid points
she also mentions Rilato CA police department and how they have cameras on each officer and police complaints about misconduct have dropped dramatically

Shoot, I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes for cameras. That would stop all these "lack of..." non-sense that myself personally, thinks its entire bullshit at times. I'm not just talking about in this particular situation either. Make it required to wear one for whenever your on duty, doesn't matter if it's a full blown OK Carrol shootout or a giving a ticket because the parking meter expired. Lack of evidence, lack of accountability, lack of witnesses, lack of "clear video angles" etc. etc. etc. just makes things extremely complicated and I'm sure make things much harder for investigators. Having these cams, would give us first hand into the view of the officer and whatever the opposing force is. I believe it would give a personal account of how the officer was thinking, the way he/she acted and why he/she acted in the manner he/she does. You'll be able to evaluate the threat level of the task, answer "was the officer actions necessary for the given conflict" and kill off a lot of the hearsay like in this incident we have here and in many others to come.

and i wouldnt dismiss the race/class issue as "bitching"

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

[WheelWhore]

Remember how the media made a huge deal about how that "mix race ker " Zimmerman was supposedly white? How they edited the 911 tapes to make it sound like he was following him cause "he looks black!"....leaving out the operators request to know the suspects race...


Any sources for this? I never heard mention of this before.

[Corbic]

Any sources for this? I never heard mention of this before.


Are you for real?

I'll post it up latter. Someone even got fired at MSNBC after the fact (iirc).

[DRIFTER-M]

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

[WheelWhore]

Are you for real?

I'll post it up latter. Someone even got fired at MSNBC after the fact (iirc).


Yes. I never heard of the edited situation.

I dont watch MSNBC.

[HORShi]

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level. But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

[imotion s14]

mike brown was shot and killed and witnesses all say the same thing
he had his hands up saying "dont shoot"

huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?_r=0

Of course the guy who said he had his hands up and said don't shoot is also the guy who gave an account that he met up with Brown when he saw him on the street. His narrative of course didn't take into account he was filmed in the same store during the strong arm robbery.

[DRIFTER-M]

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely wrecked. But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

[silviasandbeer]

huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?_r=0

Of course the guy who said he had his hands up and said don't shoot is also the guy who gave an account that he met up with Brown when he saw him on the street. His narrative of course didn't take into account he was filmed in the same store during the strong arm robbery.

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

[theronin]

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

[silviasandbeer]

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

thats logical

[DRIFTER-M]

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

ROFL

Could you imagine how disturbing the job would be to watch the cameras? LOL

[imotion s14]

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

You have way too much faith in the ignorant.

[HORShi]

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

[DRIFTER-M]

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

I strongly concur. It started with the baby boomers and has progressively gotten worse and worse with every generation. We have become perfectly fine with being sub-par, this issue is what haunts us.

When I see these cases like Brown, Martin, etc. It discourages me. Instead of the media building up racial tensions, why don't we focus on parenting our youth to make wise choices and take the high road. Teach the respect and how to avoid problematic situations rather than MAKE problematic situations.

I don't know where the circle ends and begins anymore, personally I think our nation is beyond the point of no return. We are no longer the power we once were. We continue to plummet in education statistics, grow debt, and fill jails. We are so concerned with what's happening with the Kardashians that we can't even show up to vote for the leader of our country (or well, statistically speaking anyway).

This kind of stuff is an embarrassment.

[OutlawLui]

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

[Corbic]

Yes. I never heard of the edited situation.

I dont watch MSNBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/14/zimmerman-lawyer-to-move-asap-against-nbc-news/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-case-leads-to-multiple-embarrassments-for-nbc-msnbc/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc_n_2253095.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/12/the-media-lynching-of-george-zimmerman/

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/nbc-deceptively-edits-george-zimmermans-words-on-911-tape/

A8Ebm0g1lxY?t=2m25s

[Corbic]

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

go away.



msg

[Corbic]

ROFL

Could you imagine how disturbing the job would be to watch the cameras? LOL

EM5MzCAZ3OY

[Corbic]

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

I love that presumption that the officer acted in appropriately.

What about forever changing how witnesses lie about what they saw? Considering the nonsense going on, I have little faith in the witnesses.

Maybe the change we need is parents start being parents and raising better kids.

[dsastr_clan]

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost


what do you mean?? this isn't what media wants you to see! those up there are facts, lethal force is used only under life threatening circumstances. There are other alternatives, what about their so awesome training that they seem to rub on our face when they fuck up, why didnt he wait or call for back up? or use a different subduing method? it was his fault for going solo into a risky situation. Don't become part of the desensitization of events, we need to stand up and before this happens to your or my kids.

[Corbic]

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

Awesome Source Material.



I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system.

Yes, because we are totally comparable. You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.


A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.


Rhetoric.

First, variation in law is great. It's part of states rights. Don't like it, vote or move. This country is far to big, far to diverse to have one central government making all the laws. That's tyranny of the majority. Why should I in podunk Midwest, who is outnumbered by California, be forced to accept what laws they want?

As far as nonviolent vs violent - please post up some statistics to back up your claim.

Our criminal system is not about rehabilitation. End of Story. :picardfp:

Our Society is not about rehabilitation. Ever apply for a job? Ever been asked if you are a convicted felon? Can't get a job - just go back to stealing.

What "to much" power are police given?



I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas

The two parties are closer align then you realize. You are just getting lost in rhetoric.


and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level.

Good for you.


But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

Maybe we should start with the people. How many drug gangs does Japan have? Active serial killers? How many men beat and murder their wives? Kidnap and rape girls? How many guys set off bombs in front of buildings? How many Japanese police officers are killed each year?

How many illegal aliens are in Japan? How many guns? How many minorities? How many people live below the poverty line?


But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Or else what? You still haven't stated how the system is broken. Just rhetoric. Yes, the US is not other countries. We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't trade one aspect for another.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".

[Corbic]

what do you mean?? this isn't what media wants you to see! those up there are facts, lethal force is used only under life threatening circumstances. There are other alternatives, what about their so awesome training that they seem to rub on our face when they fuck up, why didnt he wait or call for back up? or use a different subduing method? it was his fault for going solo into a risky situation. Don't become part of the desensitization of events, we need to stand up and before this happens to your or my kids.

Monday Night Quarterback.

So what happens if the man gets away and kills someone.

"why didn't the police stop him... why didn't they chase him... why did he not just shoot him instead of taser..."


As for "other means of subduing. Reality is not the movies. We have no idea if the cop had a ranged-taser on him... and even if he did, he'd still have to draw it... and not miss.

They are a one shot deal and not always as effective as people think. Should the cop had "knight stick" the guy like Rodney King?

If you ask the cop he was in "life threading circumstances". According to him, the man tried to take his pistol, a round went off and then Brown beat the cop in the fact. News is reporting the officer has a busted eye socket.

So what, you expect the cop to just let the guy run off? Wants to go round two and fist fight it out?

:picardfp:

[TMW]

Well, this thread got a bit off topic. So, I just got done watching the CBS evening news and a young man from Ferguson said something along the lines of this "It's not a racial issue. It's an issue of the people vs. the police."

I thought that described what was going on pretty well in the US nowadays with police. Although I'm not black I do realize that police tend to be considerably harder on blacks. I've been harassed by the police plenty of times even though I'm white and live in an affluent area. So many police sympathizers and people who automatically assume that the police are correct have obviously haven't had any unpleasant interactions with the police.

[J3123MY]

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7


Are you fucking serious? Have you read the book 1984?

You just want to give the government all the power, huh? I bet you are against the bill of rights, too.

You are an ignorant fellow. Too much government power is a really, really, really, really, really, bad thing. At this rate, you will find out one day.

[TMW]

I'm pretty sure theronin was being sarcastic. At least I hope he was.

[J3123MY]

I was hoping too. But, somehow I don't think he was....

[theronin]

Imagine it guys. Would be like Ed TV starring the ridiculously good looking Mathew Mcconaughey, except for every person in the US!!!

[J3123MY]

theronin, have you ever heard, witnessed, or watched a video of a cop completely shitting on the constitution? How about on a larger scale, have you ever learned in history class of every cop acting together to shit on human rights?

[theronin]

Have you seen the video where the cat plays the piano? Gets me every time.

[TMW]

Have you seen the video where the cat plays the piano? Gets me every time.

Would you mind embedding the video here? I haven't seen it.

[theronin]

kNH_EjHvm3I


The ending is the best.

[TMW]

kNH_EjHvm3I

it wasnt embedded correctly at first so here it is

[Matej]

You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.

We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".
These three statements are completely false, unfortunately.

[Corbic]

These three statements are completely false, unfortunately.


Proof???

Didn't think so

[Matej]

Proof???
What, you want a plane ticket or something?

Western, Southern, and Northern Europe is full of Muslims and Africans. At many of the airports you will hardly see a white person. England and France are the third and fourth most Islamic countries in the world. Basically, their legal system defends the beliefs held by the Muslim religions much more strictly than the countries in the Middle East.
Italy is accepting African immigrants by the boatload every day. Southern Italy may as well be a part of Africa now as far as their ethnic demographic goes.
Sweden jails native Swedes just for speaking out against minorities or religions on the internet. There are mosques all over Switzerland and Austria. Muslim groups are demanding that waitresses cover up their elbows. They want their own swimming pools and lunch rooms at workplaces because everyone else is apparently filthy, and they are actually getting them.

I am not sure where you have been getting your world news these past couple of decades.

[turbronegro]

Matej well said. I've been all over the world and Europe is so diverse. Lots of arab, africans, and indians there. Assume places in eastern Europe not so much. I got a lot attention in Bulgaria; on the flip side Serbia has lots of blacks and lots of them are American blacks.

[Corbic]

What, you want a plane ticket or something?.

Don't need one. Lived there for over 5 years.


Western, Southern, and Northern Europe is full of Muslims and Africans.

And they want them gone.

At many of the airports you will hardly see a white person.

Airports - the real cornerstone of a community.

Maybe you should pull some racial data. Germany for example is overrun with Turks (Muslims). Despite being "over run" they are only 3.4% of the population. Africans are 0.7% and Asians 2.5%. This a far cry from the "diversity" of the US.

Norway - less then 7% of everyone living there is non-western (white) with the total amount of non-ethnic Norwegian being 13.5%



England and France are

..both shitholes with race riots nearly as exciting as those in the US and South Africa.

Basically, their legal system defends the beliefs held by the Muslim religions

Sure they do (are you implying the US Law does not protect freedom of religion?)

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/anisur-rahman/should-britain-consider-banning-burqa-and-niqab

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/


.
Italy is accepting African immigrants by the boatload every day. Southern Italy may as well be a part of Africa now as far as their ethnic demographic goes.

Accepting or being invaded by? Using that logic, the US has "accepted" 11 million Mexicans illegally on top of our 41 million immigrants living here. Italy is also detaining its 65,000 African immigrants by the 10s of thousands.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/03/12/289015729/a-magnet-for-african-migrants-italy-seeks-a-new-approach

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21606301-more-horrific-deaths-mediterranean-tidal-wave

.Sweden jails native Swedes just for speaking out against minorities or religions on the internet.

Are you talking about the "hate-speech" and "anti-nazi" laws these countries have? Just what we need, more censorship of speech and a government locking you up for your opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

Immigrants behind 25% of Sweden's Crime.
http://www.thelocal.se/20051214/2683

"The Living Hell For Swedish women: 5% Muslim Pop commit nearly 77.6% of all rape crimes"

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/the-living-hell-for-swedish-women-5-muslims-commit-nearly-77-6-of-all-rape-crimes/


There are mosques all over Switzerland and Austria. Muslim groups are demanding that waitresses cover up their elbows. They want their own swimming pools and lunch rooms at workplaces because everyone else is apparently filthy, and they are actually getting them.

And you wonder why Nazism is on the rise...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/25/world/europe/a-neo-nazis-political-rise-exposes-a-german-citys-ethnic-tensions.html?_r=0

http://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/youth-unemployment-rise-neo-nazism-europe-89513/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/rise-of-neo-nazis-in-germany-seven-decades-1293137

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/8828189/greek-tragedy-the-rise-of-europes-neo-nazis

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/europes-dark-core-neo-nazi-movements-march-1431671

[zeitgeist]

Sucks when centuries of exploitation catch up and you're now on the receiving end

At the end of the day though, I am extremely proud of the leaps our country has taken. It pisses me off though when people settle for good enough while much of our countrymen suffer at the hands of injustice.

Like stop and frisk. Ugh. Absolutely disgusting

[silviasandbeer]

@corbic it's inappropriate when an unarmed teen is shot 6 times
Once in the top if the head and left in the street for hours then thrown in the back of a SUV like a bag of groceries... That's inappropriate to

It doesn't matter how big and scary you think he is

[Frank_Jaeger]

Too bad I only have four minutes left on my lunch break. I'll have to save the other 9 hours and 59 minutes for later.

[Corbic]

Sucks when centuries of exploitation catch up and you're now on the receiving end

So you are all for the global expansion of Sharia Law? Guess the New York Times was right about drifting and jihadism.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/world/middleeast/08drift.html?_r=0


Like stop and frisk. Ugh. Absolutely disgusting

Stop carrying weapons and selling drugs. People bitch that the police are not doing enough to make areas safe... then bitch when police do their job.

[Corbic]

@corbic it's inappropriate when an unarmed teen is shot 6 times
Once in the top if the head and left in the street for hours then thrown in the back of a SUV like a bag of groceries... That's inappropriate to

It doesn't matter how big and scary you think he is

yawn.

Nice attempt at sensationalism, you should go work for one of the news outlets.

[TMW]

People bitch that the police are not doing enough to make areas safe...

link to source?

[zeitgeist]

So you are all for the global expansion of Sharia Law? Guess the New York Times was right about drifting and jihadism.



I don't understand what that has to do with my comment. Please explain


Stop carrying weapons and selling drugs. People bitch that the police are not doing enough to make areas safe... then bitch when police do their job.

So you're basically saying we should disregard the constitution?

We bitch when the police pick and choose when the law applies to one group of people in a socio economic status but not those of another
What are the police doing to stop those is the wealthy neighborhoods of committing the same crimes? I've never heard of a house full of children in a wealthy neighborhood being raided because the police thought/suspected criminal activity was going on

[1 88 U]

http://mxgm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ImpunityTable-7.19.13.pdf

These murderous cops get away with killing unarmed black people because racist like Corbit accept these bald-faced lies "I thought he had a gun!"; "I thought he was reaching for a gun" "I thought he was trying to take my gun".

[J3123MY]

Damn 188 U that shit is disgusting.

I read one where the pig ran a red light and killed someone and people protested because they have seen them break so many traffic rules. Its fucking disgusting when these pigs shit on the very laws they enforce. And I know we all see these pigs break the laws on a regular basis.

[Corbic]

http://mxgm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ImpunityTable-7.19.13.pdf

These murderous cops get away with killing unarmed black people because racist like Corbit accept these bald-faced lies "I thought he had a gun!"; "I thought he was reaching for a gun" "I thought he was trying to take my gun".


That link is the biggest pile of shit in the history of mankind.

So an Arab store clerk shoots a black man for trashing his store.... then the Arab clerk is convicted of manslaughter... And this is proof the "white man" is getting away with murdering Blackman?

[1 88 U]

That link is the biggest pile of shit in the history of mankind.

So an Arab store clerk shoots a black man for trashing his store.... then the Arab clerk is convicted of manslaughter... And this is proof the "white man" is getting away with murdering Blackman?

Cognitive dissidents is a powerful thing when that is what you took from the list. Most rational people see the list and go "damn this has got to stop!" . You saw the list and said uh the scary black man was asking for it. That is why you are a racist Corbic.

[Corbic]

Cognitive dissidents is a powerful thing when that is what you took from the list. Most rational people see the list and go "damn this has got to stop!" . You saw the list and said uh the scary black man was asking for it. That is why you are a racist Corbic.


You see this as a color issue. I see this as a crime issue. That is what makes you a racist.


I don't care what color the guy is. He was trashing a store, so I understand why the owner may want to shoot him. The owner did so, but based on the law, did not have the right, so he now goes to jail.

Please explain to me how this had anything to do with race? I suppose in your warped view of the world had the dead guy been white the Arab would have received the death penalty and had the Arab been white he'd received a fucking award.

I see a list of shooting, many still waiting to go to trial and skewed truths put together to get simple minded people like your self whipped up into a race baiting furry. This is done not to reduce crime, improve communities or promote racial harmony but instead to further the political and economic goals of particular individuals.

[1 88 U]

You see this as a color issue. I see this as a crime issue. That is what makes you a racist.


I don't care what color the guy is. He was trashing a store, so I understand why the owner may want to shoot him. The owner did so, but based on the law, did not have the right, so he now goes to jail.

Please explain to me how this had anything to do with race? I suppose in your warped view of the world had the dead guy been white the Arab would have received the death penalty and had the Arab been white he'd received a fucking award.

I see a list of shooting, many still waiting to go to trial and skewed truths put together to get simple minded people like your self whipped up into a race baiting furry. This is done not to reduce crime, improve communities or promote racial harmony but instead to further the political and economic goals of particular individuals.

No one is buying your post racial bs but fellow bigots.

[Corbic]

No one is buying your post racial bs but fellow bigots.


Excellent rebuttal. You have completely swayed me with your idiotic cries of "racism".

So sorry I care to look past the surface of ones skin to see what is really going on.

[1 88 U]

Excellent rebuttal. You have completely swayed me with your idiotic cries of "racism".

So sorry I care to look past the surface of ones skin to see what is really going on.

Oh I don't care to sway you. Just to expose you as the bigot you are to other forum members.

[Corbic]

Oh I don't care to sway you. Just to expose you as the bigot you are to other forum members.


Fine job you are doing.

But so I understand things correctly, you disagree with me and therefore you are assuming I'm white, and then assume that my opinions are based on the fact that I'm white and not a preponderance of facts and evidence ...thus making my opinions "racists".

Hmmmmm.

[OutlawLui]

Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm x

[theronin]

wayne brady makes bryant gumbel look like malcolm x
it was mooney

[HORShi]

Source: CNN

New clues to Michael Brown's shooting?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/michael-brown-ferguson-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I think this might just add more fuel to the already intense fire.....

[Corbic]

Interesting that when you Google Fox News and CNN,

The top articles on Fox are the Foley beheading and Obama authorizing drone strikes in Syria.


CNN is Michael Brown shooting and Obama authorizing "reconnaissance" drones in Syria...


I don't know what is worse...

[HORShi]

Interesting that when you Google Fox News and CNN,

The top articles on Fox are the Foley beheading and Obama authorizing drone strikes in Syria.


CNN is Michael Brown shooting and Obama authorizing "reconnaissance" drones in Syria...


I don't know what is worse...

This is actually pretty funny lol...the socio-poltical agendas are real. smdh :picardfp:

[LEG1T]

I find it interesting how anyone can justify how many times Brown got shot. I find it interesting that people call Brown a "thug" before calling the officer a murderer, since both sides technically don't know what happened. I find it interesting that the cops are pointing loaded guns at protesters whilst calling protesters animals. I find it interesting that there was no dispatched reportings calling for medical attention for Brown, instead just crowd control. I find it interesting that a lieutenant of police in St. Louis is a racist, but most of all I find it interesting that all of this started of from "j" walking. Since the officer knew nothing about Brown being a suspect in a robbery. Why did the officer try to grab Brown, What was his crime? Why shot so many times?

When the people of power are racist, it then becomes easy to see why this happened, and why people are outraged.

When your police lieutenant is caught targeting blacks specifically. That is a major problem. Imagine if your towns police department sets out to target your entire race. Admittedly "racial profiling". This is so wrong. And for many of the opposite race, is something you would never understand.

St. Louis County police Lt. Patrick “Rick” Hayes was fired Monday after a nearly six-month internal investigation into whether he ordered officers to target black people in and around retail centers in south St. Louis County.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-county-police-lieutenant-who-allegedly-targeted-blacks-is/article_691eb995-7247-5c0b-a48b-e7048c777b37.html

http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2F2014-08-14_12_21_06-Greenshot_1.png

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77159000/jpg/_77159481_police_standoff.jpg

I'm sick of racist I hate them. No one should be treated unfairly and looking at the facts I do believe there was a severe injustice done to Michael Brown that I hope gets dealt with to the fullest extent.

It also sucks to read some of the comments on here, to discover that some of the views are racially motivated by clear biases and superiority.

FUCK RACIST, I love everyone no matter the skin color. If your an asshole you are by person not by race. I guess I have to thank my parents for raising me bias free and my environment for allowing me to see and experience all the good and bad in every type of people.

[S14DB]

Cognitive dissidents is a powerful thing when that is what you took from the list. Most rational people see the list and go "damn this has got to stop!" . You saw the list and said uh the scary black man was asking for it. That is why you are a racist Corbic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance :picardfp:

[HORShi]

I posted the article link above in my previous post...but here is the embedded clip of the gun shots that POSSIBLY was the encounter of the officer and Michael Brown at the time. The hesitation of shots is the big topic and debate.

watch?v=BiL-E5WAaUU

@LEG1T

Please tell me that's not a real Facebook post man???

"Feral & Violent"?..."They murder their unborn babies"?

oh yea this what got me...."They hate police officers and murder some of them, even black ones"?

...this old ass broad need to do society a favor and execute herself.

[1 88 U]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance :picardfp:

confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Care to apologize?

[VROOOM]

he probably put that up there because you called it Cognitive Dissidents

[1 88 U]

he probably put that up there because you called it Cognitive Dissidents

:picardfp:
I did didn't I. Sorry myself, fucking iPhone autocorrect.

Back on topic, 11 shots huh. The 5 that missed could have struck bystanders.

[VNG704]

@leg1t's FB insert.

What I don't understand is that, though true, some of them (black community) will do those horrible things, racist people like Catherine Nardi can't seem to understand that what she said(or similar) can be said about any race. It just blows my mind how blind and/or hypocritical people can be. Hate like racism will always be around because we can't stop labeling each other. /rant

[HORShi]

:picardfp:
I did didn't I. Sorry myself, fucking iPhone autocorrect.

Back on topic, 11 shots huh. The 5 that missed could have struck bystanders.

Yes I counted 10/11 shots also from the video. The first 6 shots was in rapid succession...I would speculate this during the "struggle" that supposedly happened and I'm sure at least one of those shots made contact. But after the pause or "hesitation" the next 4-5 rounds of fire definitely seemed more "controlled" compared to the first 6.

Once again only I can only speculate, this is when M. Brown hands was up "as the witnesses mentioned" and Officer Darren Wilson fired the last 4-5 to "neutralize" the threat. Which I'm also speculating this is when he took those 2 head shots. Unless he graze Michael Brown before...which if that is the case, I'm pretty sure he would been on the ground way before hand. I don't know many people who have got grazed in the skull and didn't fall, resist or fight back after that.

http://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/front-two-autopsy.jpg?w=640&h=499

[LEG1T]

I posted the article link above in my previous post...but here is the embedded clip of the gun shots that POSSIBLY was the encounter of the officer and Michael Brown at the time. The hesitation of shots is the big topic and debate.

@LEG1T

Please tell me that's not a real Facebook post man???

"Feral & Violent"?..."They murder their unborn babies"?

oh yea this what got me...."They hate police officers and murder some of them, even black ones"?

...this old ass broad need to do society a favor and execute herself.

Sadly this was indeed a real Facebook post from an Author at that. The worst part about this is that a person with this mindset is the person that breeds hate. Imagine how a parent like this would raise there kids, it's disgusting.

@leg1t's FB insert.

What I don't understand is that, though true, some of them (black community) will do those horrible things, racist people like Catherine Nardi can't seem to understand that what she said(or similar) can be said about any race. It just blows my mind how blind and/or hypocritical people can be. Hate like racism will always be around because we can't stop labeling each other. /rant

It's a sad thing man, to know that someone has judged you as a person even before you have even opened your mouth solely based on skin color.

@Horshi . I am very curious as to your stance on this and please forgive me if i have missed it. What is your take on the way the officer handled this situation, just on what you know?

[HORShi]

@Horshi . I am very curious as to your stance on this and please forgive me if i have missed it. What is your take on the way the officer handled this situation, just on what you know?

Your cool man, pretty much I feel that there is too many loop holes in this situation for me to actually judge. The audio tape of the tape is the first real kind of evidence that will be monumental into finding out more information.

Concerning with the way the officer handling the situation...what I will say, that after hearing recording of the incident and also the other incident in St. Louis with the cops killing another black male (pumping 9 rounds in him on video), there needs to be a thorough investigation of both St. Louis and Ferguson PD. There is SIMPLY NO REASONING to unload 9+ shots to "neutralize" the threat. Especially if the "threat" is unarmed. It's simply not justifiable. Seriously I'm starting to think the other witnesses (Mike's friend Johnson and the other two ladies I believe) testimonies isn't far off. There was a moment of contemplation I would speculate within that pause of the shooting and leads me to assume that those last 4-5 shots were kill shots.

[HORShi]

What puzzles me still is exactly why the officer stopped Mike? and if it really because of "J-Walking", then maybe I need to start wearing a Kevlar vest the next time I walk across street illegally (which everyone does...me, kids in school, "thugs", your mother, businessmen etc etc etc). I'm starting to believe there was some racial profiling during this whole ordeal now. The "strong-arm robbery" to me is irrelevant at this point because the officer (which was said on TV) had no prior knowledge of this, nor it was radioed in by dispatch.

But once again...I make all my accusations just from what I speculate. The truth is there but everyone is skewing the exact and real truth, to make it fit their agenda.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this country still has not moved upon our past. I would never picture the bitter intense "shot" of racism to be sparked from this...from BOTH sides. It's 2014...not 1964. This shit is so pathetic and embarrassing. Apparently this Ferguson issue is vastly deeper than any of us understand and shows that we still have not come about face with our skeletons in the closet. Have any of us lived in Ferguson? have any of us experience racial profiling? have any of us lived in a socioeconomic deprived environment? predominantly black low income/poor neighborhood? predominately Hispanic/white low income/poor neighborhoods?

at the end of the day, I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVE THEIR JUDGEMENT...not OPINION.

Giving a judgement is very different from giving an opinion about something. This is what makes situations such as we have here, provoke hate amongst ourselves as the human race and bring out people's true colors in where they stand.

[Corbic]

What puzzles me still is exactly why the officer stopped Mike?

If I understand correctly the two guys where not crossing the street but walking in the middle of it. I don't find that two hard to believe as I see people doing that all the time around here after midnight in the downtown area.


and if it really because of "J-Walking", then maybe I need to start wearing a Kevlar vest the next time I walk across street illegally (which everyone does...me, kids in school, "thugs", your mother, businessmen etc etc etc).

Or just don't kick the cops door and get in an argument with him when he tells you to "get the fuck out of the street". :picardfp:

That part of the story is not up for debate, both sides agree to what happening. The cop stopped, told them to "Get the fuck out of the street" and words then got exchanged. When the cop tried to get out of the door Brown kicked it back in and there was a tussle - now the Friend states the cop pulled Brown into the car and discharged his weapon trying to draw it on them, the cop argues Brown discharged his weapon when he reached in the car for for it.

Ballistics will be critical in this case. It will show the trajectory of the round inside the cop car, it will show at what angle the rounds hit Brown and how he was standing latter.


I'm starting to believe there was some racial profiling during this whole ordeal now. The "strong-arm robbery" to me is irrelevant at this point because the officer (which was said on TV) had no prior knowledge of this, nor it was radioed in by dispatch.

What is "Racial Profiling" about yelling at two guys to get out of the street? Do you think he would not have yelled at them had they been white, asian or latino?

The Cops knowledge of the robbery is actually very important, in that HE DIDN'T KNOW. Several experts have already stated that is what may have potentially made the situation dangerous and may have been why (if he did) Brown "attacked" the cop. Brown new of the robbery and had no way of knowing if the cop knew or not, this put Brown on edge. Not knowing Brown was "on edge" would mean the cop wasn't seeing this as a "Dangerous situation" and is why he engaged the two men so "casually".


But once again...I make all my accusations just from what I speculate. The truth is there but everyone is skewing the exact and real truth, to make it fit their agenda.

Thats why there is really no point getting upset until we see the actual recreation of events based on the forensic information. If the cop shot the fleeing brown before he turned around, casing placement, blood drops and entry wounds will show that. Entry wounds will also indicate which shots hit Brown and when and how Brown was standing in relation to the Cop.

It's hard to trust any wittiness. Obviously Browns friends and others may want the cop in jail... obviously the Cop doesn't want to go to jail.


have any of us experience racial profiling?

Yes, 1 88 U is assuming I'm white and therefore a racist.


have any of us lived in a socioeconomic deprived environment?

YUP


predominantly black low income/poor neighborhood? predominately Hispanic/white low income/poor neighborhoods?

27% Black, 14% Hispanic


at the end of the day, I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVE THEIR JUDGEMENT...not OPINION.

Not sure I follow you on this one..


Giving a judgement is very different from giving an opinion about something. This is what makes situations such as we have here, provoke hate amongst ourselves as the human race and bring out people's true colors in where they stand.

Neither should be aloud in this situation. Yours and Mine OPINIONS do not matter regarding the circumstances of Mr. Browns death. That is the problem, everyone has their half-baked ideas about what went down and are trying to fill the pieces of the story with their own bullshit projections. One side FEELs like the cop was out trolling for young black men to line up and murder in the streets for yucks and grins. The other side thinks cops can do no wrong and the fact that the cop shot Brown means Brown deserved to die.

:facepalm:

This one is just for your I 88 U,

Should SLC be out protesting?

nJUlS0T3XQs

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-cop-kills-white-man-media-hide-race/

Interesting how the media fails to mention the cop was Black and the department is refusing to give up the body-cam footage...

[HORShi]

If I understand correctly the two guys where not crossing the street but walking in the middle of it. I don't find that two hard to believe as I see people doing that all the time around here after midnight in the downtown area.

I thought Johnson said they was preparing to cross the street as their destination was relatively close. If he didn't say this, I apologize for this mislead of information. I'm going to try and find that article.



Or just don't kick the cops door and get in an argument with him when he tells you to "get the fuck out of the street". :picardfp:

That part of the story is not up for debate, both sides agree to what happening. The cop stopped, told them to "Get the fuck out of the street" and words then got exchanged. When the cop tried to get out of the door Brown kicked it back in and there was a tussle - now the Friend states the cop pulled Brown into the car and discharged his weapon trying to draw it on them, the cop argues Brown discharged his weapon when he reached in the car for for it.

Ballistics will be critical in this case. It will show the trajectory of the round inside the cop car, it will show at what angle the rounds hit Brown and how he was standing latter.

Once again, I thought Johnson said that the Officer Wilson open his door so aggressively that it hit Michael and "rebounded" back to the officer. It's very unfortunately that we only have 2 testimonies that where actually in the heat of the moment where everything is blurred.

Not to bring an off topic issue, but this is why I believe mandatory cameras (specifically dashcams) should be required for the police (since Ferguson does not have any). With the proper written policy to avoid loopholes, and set a time limit for the for when the legal (law enforcement or the recording of the illegal act) should be release to the public (maybe after 48 hours?), unless judge mandates otherwise. Because even with ballistics and audio recording of the shots everything is still based of speculation and stories. Not to mention there is a possible issue of police misconduct/behavior, which is also not clear either. Their is only 3 people who knows fully what happen...one is dead, Dorain is Mike's friend, and Darren Wilson is a cop. In ALOT of cases (such as car crashes and the driver's blaming each other for being at fault) either one can change their story, modify it or change small details for either being under constant straining pressure, covering up or to protect someone.

Here's that article by the way, I'm pretty sure you may have seen it:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/


What is "Racial Profiling" about yelling at two guys to get out of the street? Do you think he would not have yelled at them had they been white, asian or latino?

The Cops knowledge of the robbery is actually very important, in that HE DIDN'T KNOW. Several experts have already stated that is what may have potentially made the situation dangerous and may have been why (if he did) Brown "attacked" the cop. Brown new of the robbery and had no way of knowing if the cop knew or not, this put Brown on edge. Not knowing Brown was "on edge" would mean the cop wasn't seeing this as a "Dangerous situation" and is why he engaged the two men so "casually".

responding to the first part, the approaching or engaging the situation with the words and yelling "get the fuck out the street" is absolutely unnecessary and by any means not casual or normal. Why couldn't he say "Hey, can you guys walk on the sidewalk, your obstructing traffic"? I would bet the situation wouldn't had escalated instantly as it did at that point or escalated at all. The officer choose the wrong choice of words in this situation. As much

and secondly, do I think if it was white, Asian or any other race be approached in that manner that the officer did? Honestly, I truly don't know...but I will say and bet, that the approach of the officer or rather "choice of words" may have been different. This to me is why I speculate that the robbery is not major factor in my opinion, since we can't ask Michael Brown why he "attack" the officer, given of course IF he really did attacked the officer (the officer could be trying to muscle and be an asshole), because of the questionable, up for dispute actions that happen with the officer and Michael during this time.

Seriously, if you happen to be walking the street, almost arriving to your destination, preparing to cross the street and a officer, yelling at you saying "get the fuck off the street", anyone of us would feel some type of resentment, I know I would. Just wrong approach on the officer end to a really simple, should have been harmless and low interaction situation



Thats why there is really no point getting upset until we see the actual recreation of events based on the forensic information. If the cop shot the fleeing brown before he turned around, casing placement, blood drops and entry wounds will show that. Entry wounds will also indicate which shots hit Brown and when and how Brown was standing in relation to the Cop.

It's hard to trust any wittiness. Obviously Browns friends and others may want the cop in jail... obviously the Cop doesn't want to go to jail.

Well I do know according to the preliminary autopsies of Dr. Michael Baden, the assistant Shawn L. Parcells said their is a wound to the right arm that is consistent with Brown having his back turned to the officer, in a defensive position or having his hands up. So I reckon we must wait for full in-depth federal autopsy to come out to truly go any further.

Here is the source to that: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/252432/tear-gas-fired-at-missouri-protesters

and I agree with you on the second line. As I mentioned in an earlier response, between the constant pressures, possible coverups, and the need to protect someone, both Johnson and Wilson is subjected to change, manipulate or "Come out with the truth". Everything is up in mist.

I think the main reason of why people is upset, and I specifically mean the people of Ferguson, is because 1) The way the situation was handled, which includes the dialogue, the aftermath of the shooting (the carelessness of his body, the riots and the almost martial-law like mentality that the Ferguson/St. Louis police exhibited in public, on TV for the entire country to see. 2) The spontaneous burst of racism that occurred from the situation. (Which I myself personally did not expect to surge this bad, its actually very embarrasing)


Yes, 1 88 U is assuming I'm white and therefore a racist.

lol, I plead the 5th on this one. I'm out of that equation between you and 1 88 U man lol.


at the end of the day, I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVE THEIR JUDGEMENT...not OPINION. Not sure I follow you on this one..



Neither should be aloud in this situation. Yours and Mine OPINIONS do not matter regarding the circumstances of Mr. Browns death. That is the problem, everyone has their half-baked ideas about what went down and are trying to fill the pieces of the story with their own bullshit projections. One side FEELs like the cop was out trolling for young black men to line up and murder in the streets for yucks and grins. The other side thinks cops can do no wrong and the fact that the cop shot Brown means Brown deserved to die.

:facepalm:

A judgement (which is most people is doing) is you announcing how you feel...BUT, there is a conviction, their is a right and wrong that you announce, good for finger pointing and accusing.

A opinion (which most people believe they are doing) is you announcing how you feel...BUT, there is no conviction, there is a respect among a differing opinion, there is not right or wrong, good for debating.

In retrospect
Opinion - Yeah I agree but.....[One Different Opinion later] I still respect your opinion, everyone has them

Judgement - You know that's pretty idiotic of you to like/believe that and here is why you are terrible....

At the end of the day, I'm anticipating and hoping that justice will be served rightfully. You have to expect people will get very upset about things like this, especially if their is tons of mysteries clouding the circumstance. Apparently it shows that Ferguson/St. Louis have deeper problem that anyone of us can see, that could possibly reflect our problem on a broader scale.

[J3123MY]

Does anyone have the police dash cam or is that not released to the public yet?

[HORShi]

Does anyone have the police dash cam or is that not released to the public yet?

Ferguson PD doesn't use dash cams...as quote "we have 2 dash cams and 2 body cams them but there not installed". :picardfp:

Their budget doesn't allow it, as so say Thomas Jackson, Police Chief of Ferguson.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/10/protesters-seeking-justice-for-michale-brown-plan-to-block-i-70-wednesday-afternoon/

Sounds like they are going to try to stop traffic on I-70 today...

Will be watching this...if it happens

[1 88 U]

Now that white, non resident witnesses are coming foreward saying they saw Brown with his hands up and was shot mercilessly can we end this debate?

[Corbic]

Now that white, non resident witnesses are coming foreward saying they saw Brown with his hands up and was shot mercilessly can we end this debate?


So are you saying white witnesses are more creditable?

[turbronegro]

So are you saying white witnesses are more creditable?

Yes we are.

[supersayianjim]

Yes we are.


well that can go either way...

[1 88 U]

http://www.abc22now.com/shared/news/features/raw-news/stories/wkef_vid_189.shtml

This is beyond fucked up.

[1 88 U]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

I guess you need to survive in order for the police to be prosecuted.

[VNG704]

http://www.abc22now.com/shared/news/features/raw-news/stories/wkef_vid_189.shtml

This is beyond fucked up.
Damn this Ronald Richie.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Check this out

http://www.mintpressnews.com/man-shoots-intruders-turns-knock-raid-now-faces-death-penalty/196865/

[STL240SXDRIFT]

No knock raids sounds dangerous on both the officers and suspects...many things can happen in the heat of the moment. Were they not identifying themselves as police?

[JesusFreakDrifter]

YEa that no knock is definitely risky. there was an 90 year old lady in atlanta that died in a shootout with the police a couple years back.
They were searching for a suspected drug dealer at the residence. She heard people outside her home, pulled her shotgun. and well they obviously outgunned her in the end. especially when the person they were looking for wasnt there.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/georgia.botched.raid/

Also donald richie is fucked up for that phone call. at first i was confused as to why buddy had the gun. then i actually read the article and began to ask myself certain questions, like did he walk into the store with the toy gun? and why is donald richie lying to the police about him pointing and loading the alleged firearm?

[1 88 U]

YEa that no knock is definitely risky. there was an 90 year old lady in atlanta that died in a shootout with the police a couple years back.
They were searching for a suspected drug dealer at the residence. She heard people outside her home, pulled her shotgun. and well they obviously outgunned her in the end. especially when the person they were looking for wasnt there.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/georgia.botched.raid/

Also donald richie is fucked up for that phone call. at first i was confused as to why buddy had the gun. then i actually read the article and began to ask myself certain questions, like did he walk into the store with the toy gun? and why is donald richie lying to the police about him pointing and loading the alleged firearm?

Donald Richie is a lying racist asshole but it was the cops that stormed in and murdered the man that was just shopping and caused another woman to die of a heart attack.

[J3123MY]

Damn dude Marvin guy pwned some pigs.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

With the grand jury decision coming out in the next 48hrs I've personally seen a few National Guard Helos flying around and armored vehicles coming in. I am pretty sure they are preparing for some major reactions/protests. If you thought the first rounds of "protests" were bad...just wait. I have a feeling they are not going to charge Darren Wilson...

This was from yesterday...

http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/traffic-tank.png

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/qb545d8727.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JeNRp54DwOI/maxresdefault.jpg



Is Ferguson on the verge of civil unrest followed by martial law? What do you think will happen?

[Corbic]

No knock raids sounds dangerous on both the officers and suspects...many things can happen in the heat of the moment. Were they not identifying themselves as police?


Knocking is even more dangerous in some cases.

We had two officers killed her years ago serving a warrant. Suspect was wanted for shoplifting or some crap and when he answered the door shot one cop in the face and shot it out with the other two. A second cop was mortally wounded in the neck, the suspect was ultimately killed.

[AFSil80]

So now that this has gone on for a day or two...

What's everyone's thoughts?

[Corbic]

So now that this has gone on for a day or two...

What's everyone's thoughts?


Well I heard a Shoe Carnival got looted and they took everything! Even the cash registers and fixtures! Only thing left was the work boots.....

I kid I kid.


I love the mob-justice mentality there however. Grand Jury investigates and does not send an indictment... Riot and Protest. So what, they want someone to say "oh, you don't like that? Okay we'll hang the guy for you." Justice by Public Opinion.


There are a thousand more better causes to riot over than this fiasco. What ever happen to nonviolent protest?

[AFSil80]

That's why I feel for the nonviolent protestors that ARE out there...while I don't side with them, I do firmly believe in the right for people to express their thoughts.

But the images I'm seeing of these assholes out there burning our nation's flag just makes me wish the cops weren't being as restrained as they are. It's pathetic, they're accusing the cops of aggression and yet the police didn't fire a SINGLE gunshot the first night. They arrested a handful of people and confiscated ONE handgun.

I mean, these idiots looting and rioting SET FIRE TO THE CHURCH THAT THE BROWN FAMILY ATTENDED. SERIOUSLY?!

[chato de shamrock]

It's about time we start highlighting the mistakes people do, not just the police. I'm glad I don't live in some third world country or Mexico were a good 30, 40% are corrupt and/or working for some drug cartel. We have it good in this country but our freedom are retard idea that rappers are right and we should follow what their dumb asses rap about (don't snitch) has spoiled this country. Anyway, you wanna avoid getting the stuffing knocked out of you then here's a good educational video.

QR465HoCWFQ

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Corbic

There are a thousand more better causes to riot over than this fiasco. What ever happen to nonviolent protest?

Exactly...Ferguson has been leveled, businesses destroyed, looting, riots, cops shot, 2 dead guys thus far, over a hundred arrests, cop cars burned, firemen being shot at for trying to put out fires, 2 FBI agents shot, news crews/press being assaulted...etc.

Schools were canceled, businesses shut down, Thanksgiving Day Parade canceled, concerts canceled, mom and pop shops losing $, employees losing pay needed for holidays...major impacts. Not to mention the property values of every home in Ferguson just plummeted.

Tonight will mark the 3rd night in a row. National Guard came in and helped a little last night, so hopefully with them around tonight, not much will happen. Scanners have been pretty eye opening to what Ferguson PD and all the other departments that have officers helping out, have to deal with.

It's pretty intense to hear 8-10 reports of "...shots fired..." per hour.

[theronin]

Exactly...Ferguson has been leveled, businesses destroyed, looting, riots, cops shot, 2 dead guys thus far, over a hundred arrests, cop cars burned, firemen being shot at for trying to put out fires, 2 FBI agents shot, news crews/press being assaulted...etc.

Schools were canceled, businesses shut down, Thanksgiving Day Parade canceled, concerts canceled, mom and pop shops losing $, employees losing pay needed for holidays...major impacts. Not to mention the property values of every home in Ferguson just plummeted.

Tonight will mark the 3rd night in a row. National Guard came in and helped a little last night, so hopefully with them around tonight, not much will happen. Scanners have been pretty eye opening to what Ferguson PD and all the other departments that have officers helping out, have to deal with.

It's pretty intense to hear 8-10 reports of "...shots fired..." per hour.
I was listening to the radio last night and a woman made a very good point, the economic destruction these actions will have on the Ferguson economy will last for a very long time. The surrounding areas prices will rise because they have no competition, local business is going to take a while to rebuild. People who work at these places just lost their jobs. Feel so bad for the innocents who had nothing to do with any of this, now bearing the brunt of it all. So sad

Side note, found it ironic how the first time this happened everyone was complaining about the militarization of police. So now they take a step back, don't wear riot gear, don't show force, and the city burns and everyone's all like, "OMG WHERE ARE THE POLICE?!?!?!? WHY ARENT THEY STOPPING THIS?!?!?!"

[TMW]

"OMG WHERE ARE THE POLICE?!?!?!? WHY ARENT THEY STOPPING THIS?!?!?!"

Who is saying this? Honestly, I haven't kept up with the issue too much lately so idk...

I wrote a short 5-6 page paper a couple weeks ago on the Michael Brown shooting and police violence against blacks and I can understand the black communities anger, so I'm happy this incident and the 'rioting' is getting some press, but at the same time it is quite unfortunate for many people who own businesses there.

Did you guys see that Cleveland thing? 12 year old kid got shot...

[supersayianjim]

get in a few tanks and run them over!!

[S14DB]

get in a few tanks and run them over!!
How bout some battlewagons?
T2bkt9aLBBI

[slideslidegnarslide]

Good ol' Subaru legacy. They should use that for their next commercial.

[AFSil80]

Who is saying this? Honestly, I haven't kept up with the issue too much lately so idk...

I wrote a short 5-6 page paper a couple weeks ago on the Michael Brown shooting and police violence against blacks and I can understand the black communities anger, so I'm happy this incident and the 'rioting' is getting some press, but at the same time it is quite unfortunate for many people who own businesses there.

Did you guys see that Cleveland thing? 12 year old kid got shot...

What happened in Cleveland is something that needs to be rioted over.

Rioting and looting over some "shorty wannabe a thug" who got killed trying to fight a cop? That's just stupid, but I don't expect anything less from a community that apparently fosters that kind of ignorance.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/26/Michael-Brown-s-Mother-Step-Father-Under-Investigation-For-Violent-Confrontation-Over-Justice-For-Mike-Brown-Merchandise

^ This link right here explains exactly why Michael Brown never stood a chance in life...his own family fighting over who gets the money from selling merchandise in his name.

:picardfp:

[0100]

What happened in Cleveland is something that needs to be rioted over.



Ahhh no.

The reason that kid died was.

1) He didn't follow the officers commands.

"Minutes later, two Cleveland Police officers - a rookie and a 10-15 year veteran - arrived at the scene, where they apparently saw Tamir pick up the gun from a table and put it in his waistband.
The rookie then asked the boy to put his hands up, at which point the youngster reached into his waistband and pulled out the pistol"

2) He removed the orange tip, which is against the law, and this incident shows why. Without the orange tip you are carrying a real gun. So that kid had a real gun.

You brandish a real gun and don't follow an officers commands what do you expect to happen?

The officer doesn't have x-ray vision to see if it has BB's or bullets inside. Some of my airsoft guns are no different than my real guns other than the internals. GBB's even have the sound and action of a real gun.

[TMW]

1) He didn't follow the officers commands.

"Minutes later, two Cleveland Police officers - a rookie and a 10-15 year veteran - arrived at the scene, where they apparently saw Tamir pick up the gun from a table and put it in his waistband.
The rookie then asked the boy to put his hands up, at which point the youngster reached into his waistband and pulled out the pistol"

2) He removed the orange tip, which is against the law, and this incident shows why. Without the orange tip you are carrying a real gun. So that kid had a real gun.

Why do you think he reached for his "real gun"? Was he going to shoot the cops with it?

[BlueKpS13]

Why do you think he reached for his "real gun"? Was he going to shoot the cops with it?

I think he meant to convey the point of the officer's perception of a real gun. Officer's see a gun, they don't think, they react. That's their training. That's the point. If you're going to carry a fake gun like a real gun, people are going to think it's real, and cops are going to treat you like a real threat. Even if you're not.

[supersayianjim]

the beaver creek walmart shooting is something to be rioting about.

[0100]

Why do you think he reached for his "real gun"? Was he going to shoot the cops with it?

From the cops prospective, yeah it probably did look like he was going to use his real gun. I remember from a gun safety class I took decades ago. The instructor said never carry your handgun in the glove box. Why? You get pulled over, they ask for license and registration, and you reach over to the glove box, which may look like you are reaching for your gun and you now have a hole in the side of your head. It's as simple as Chris Rock's video. Just don't put yourself in stupid situations. Like going after an officers gun, taking the orange tip off a BB gun and brandishing it in public, standing in front of a 3500lb automobile, etc. etc...

And don't give me the age shit either. (I know you didn't, just saying in case anyone else wants to throw that in) He was 12. My 5 and 7 year old know enough not to take the orange tip off of their airsoft guns, or even use them anywhere but the backyard or airsoft field. I can't even imagine my kids thinking going down to the local park with their airsoft guns (even with the orange tips on) being a good idea.

I think he meant to convey the point of the officer's perception of a real gun. Officer's see a gun, they don't think, they react. That's their training. That's the point. If you're going to carry a fake gun like a real gun, people are going to think it's real, and cops are going to treat you like a real threat. Even if you're not.

Exactly.

[TMW]

I think he meant to convey the point of the officer's perception of a real gun. Officer's see a gun, they don't think, they react. That's their training. That's the point. If you're going to carry a fake gun like a real gun, people are going to think it's real, and cops are going to treat you like a real threat. Even if you're not.

lol...

i realized what he was trying to say and understand it, hence why it was in ""

and i didnt say anything about rioting over it or even my stance on it. i just mentioned it because it applied to police shooting black people.

but seriously, 0100. why do you think he reached for it? i would think to show the police its not real or drop it or something along those lines. what other reason would he have? shoot the police with it? the video quality is terrible though so it is definitely hard to tell what happened.

[stevenrapids]

the beaver creek walmart shooting is something to be rioting about.

Beavercreek and Ferguson are 2 totally different areas. Beavercreek had plenty of civil protests and marches without burning down and ruining an entire city for no reason. People made a point in a civilized manner. Whether you think the cop is at fault or not, I respect people that can protest and still act like a member of the community, not destroy it like a bunch of savages.

[zeitgeist]

Yet again in new york another officer isnt held accountable for his actions even though the chokehold was specifically ordered not to be used. Why do we have laws again?

Officer unaccountability is rampant nation wide
There's the police state right in front of our eyes

[1 88 U]

Yet again in new york another officer isnt held accountable for his actions even though the chokehold was specifically ordered not to be used. Why do we have laws again?

Officer unaccountability is rampant nation wide
There's the police state right in front of our eyes

Agree completely. If you think this is just a black thing, white people be very fucking afraid.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/06/meet-59-year-old-david-hooks-the-latest-drug-raid-fatality/

[imotion s14]

Why do you think he reached for his "real gun"? Was he going to shoot the cops with it?

Because 12 years old don't have the ability to make sense of the world around them the same way an adults can (well.. some adults). He's a kid and in his 12 year old mind he has a toy gun. He probably thought hey I'll just pull it out and show them it's a toy. Unfortunately for him that triggered a deadly response.

I remember when I was 10 and I was going to rob a ice cream vendor for icecream with a BB gun. In my ignorant 10 year old brain it wasn't a big deal because it was just a BB gun. A BB gun is a toy of sorts and not a real gun so it's not a real crime. Luckily for me my BB gun broke in half when I tried to pump it up. :angel:

In law it doesn't matter if the gun is a fake, all that matters is if the person on the other side reasonably believe that it's real.

Black lives matter.. only if killed by a non-black person.

[Akito86]

Good ol' Subaru legacy. They should use that for their next commercial.

XD Haaaaaa no lie i would of done the exact same thing.:kiss:

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Happened again in St. Louis last night...motorist pulls gun after hitting ppl in road b/c they broke out his window.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/motorist-hits-crowd-members-pulls-gun-at-central-west-end/article_d9ccebc6-258d-5b58-9f43-a9f45b2ab84e.html

[STL240SXDRIFT]

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/e7/ae7d2e28-47a8-5f38-a94e-cf66e78bfa57/548008b9ba1fa.image.jpg?resize=620%2C431

[simmode1]

Yet again in new york another officer isnt held accountable for his actions even though the chokehold was specifically ordered not to be used. Why do we have laws again?

Officer unaccountability is rampant nation wide
There's the police state right in front of our eyes

This. I can't believe some of these comments I'm reading right here about Tamir Rice's shooting. They really lead me to believe some of you guys HAVE not seen the video. Police were called to the scene looking for a 20 something waving a gun around. They pull up to a black 12 year old sitting quietly & drop him as soon as he stands up. The car hadn't even come to a complete stop. Zero attempt made to establish a defensive posture & ID the individual. Seriously, go watch the vid. I don't see how you can defend the cops here. Looks like a damn drive-by shooting.

[dsastr_clan]

WTF are u talking about, havent you seen the video? this literally was a driveby done by the police, im so infuriated by this! and it makes me sick!

kid is sitting alone, cops show up and in less than a second gun him down!

i dont care if he removed the orange tip, i dont care if the kid violated commands(they were no commands), these officers violated protocol, they murdered a kid.

kids are kids, i remember playing with toy guns and shit,,, making mods to them, making look real, playing around on the streets with my friends. I have never committed a crime or im a violent person.


your comments explain why there is so much wrong shit happening nowadays, people like you that look the other way when given the chance to hold them accountable, are the assholes that chose not to indicted dickholes like this, or find them not guilt them,,,just because they have a stressful job.



Ahhh no.

The reason that kid died was.

1) He didn't follow the officers commands.

"Minutes later, two Cleveland Police officers - a rookie and a 10-15 year veteran - arrived at the scene, where they apparently saw Tamir pick up the gun from a table and put it in his waistband.
The rookie then asked the boy to put his hands up, at which point the youngster reached into his waistband and pulled out the pistol"

2) He removed the orange tip, which is against the law, and this incident shows why. Without the orange tip you are carrying a real gun. So that kid had a real gun.

You brandish a real gun and don't follow an officers commands what do you expect to happen?

The officer doesn't have x-ray vision to see if it has BB's or bullets inside. Some of my airsoft guns are no different than my real guns other than the internals. GBB's even have the sound and action of a real gun.

[simmode1]

Black lives matter.. only if killed by a non-black person.

Lives matter. Period. Doesn't matter what color you are. The reason the current uproar is taking place is that these lives are being taken by the very ppl sworn to protect them & the rest of the community. The reason for the outrage is that, despite video evidence in many of these cases, they aren't even going to trial. And it's not just black ppl are being effected. Hell, 4 years ago, NYPD officers beat a special needs kid to death.

[imotion s14]

This. I can't believe some of these comments I'm reading right here about Tamir Rice's shooting. They really lead me to believe some of you guys HAVE not seen the video. Police were called to the scene looking for a 20 something waving a gun around. They pull up to a black 12 year old sitting quietly & drop him as soon as he stands up. The car hadn't even come to a complete stop. Zero attempt made to establish a defensive posture & ID the individual. Seriously, go watch the vid. I don't see how you can defend the cops here. Looks like a damn drive-by shooting.

We've all seen the video. Does it amaze you that people can draw different conclusions from the same set of facts?

How did the Police know his age? Because there was no description of age whatsoever in the 9-11 call. All that was described was a "guy" in at the park with gun, possibly a fake, brandishing it at people, in a camo hat, grey jacket with black sleeves. No mention of his age and it took the dispatcher 3 times before the caller would even identify the race of the "guy".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30214859

Now when the Cops show they observe him from afar and see him put the gun into his waist band in the dispatch recordings.

You're the one oblivious of the facts. Quietly sitting down.. :keke:

You must have missed the part where he's walking around pointing it at the guy who called

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV8FZWMVxB0#t=71

He gets up @ 7:00
Walks around the table @ 7:02/7:03
Police car enters the frame @ 7:06
Police car stops at @ 7:09
The officer that shot him opens the door to exit @ 7:10
At that same time Tamir Rice reaches for the airsoft @ 7:10
Tamir Rice is shot @ 7:11
You can see the officer stumble on his ass and gets up @ 7:13

All of which is contrary to YOUR conclusion of the facts. Just in case you forgot what that was.

They pull up to a black 12 year old sitting quietly & drop him as soon as he stands up.

Further, what does the motion of the car have to do with responding to the fact that he walks up to them reaching for his realistic looking airsoft gun?

Nothing.

It's so easy to play Monday morning quarterback. Hindsight is always 20/20 and everyone gets it right after the fact. Giving police the authority to use deadly force, expecting them to make 100% perfect judgment calls on every single incident and then faulting them for not being able to predict the future with 100% accuracy.

What if the situation turned out it was a real gun and the cops set up a defensive position and a civilian walks by again and finally gets shot?

What do you think the headlines would have been? I submit that it would be "Police failed to protect the public, a citizen is killed due to inaction and negligence".

[imotion s14]

Lives matter. Period. Doesn't matter what color you are. The reason the current uproar is taking place is that these lives are being taken by the very ppl sworn to protect them & the rest of the community. The reason for the outrage is that, despite video evidence in many of these cases, they aren't even going to trial. And it's not just black ppl are being effected. Hell, 4 years ago, NYPD officers beat a special needs kid to death.

So where are the protest when scores of blacks are killed by other blacks? If the lives of blacks in their own community don't matter, then why should it matter to people outside of that community?

And why should they go to trial? Because a situation ended badly? The government has a degree of immunity. That's always been the case. People act like it's a new concept or something. Civilians don't have the duty of law enforcement. Thus they're never put in a situation where they have to make judgement while performing that duty. Thinking and gathering all the fact is easy to do in the comfort of our homes, on our computers with the luxury of TIME to think about the situation.

I know it's a hard concept for these ignorant people given that science, reason and logic take a back seat to Kim Kardashian's big ass. It's a tough job when you have to make split-second decisions on the spot with very little information to go on. All you have to go on is what your eyes can see and what your ears can hear that that very moment. To criminalize mis-judgement is just plain stupid.

But given that people are unreasoning and illogical fools, what would a trial accomplish? Did the Zimmerman trial change minds? Nope. Did the unorthodox grand jury of Ferguson change any minds? Nope. So what is the point in a trial if the discovery of what can be verified is tossed into the trash because it doesn't fit the narrative?

And who are the cops protecting us from again? Other people in the community.

[Corbic]

Lives matter. Period. Doesn't matter what color you are. The reason the current uproar is taking place is that these lives are being taken by the very ppl sworn to protect them & the rest of the community. The reason for the outrage is that, despite video evidence in many of these cases, they aren't even going to trial. And it's not just black ppl are being effected. Hell, 4 years ago, NYPD officers beat a special needs kid to death.


Clearly a conspiracy.

[Corbic]

Another thing to consider....


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-a2uKrH2WcPM/Tqdqx8EWqLI/AAAAAAAAAWU/dv42GN2-fdQ/s1600/OfficerData2010.bmp

[Corbic]

With all that said, I believe one something to help prevent this is officer training.

We need to raise the bar and set higher standards. Minimum 23 years of age and college degree. Boot camp style basic training, continuing training once on the force.

Dozens of studies prove "street smart" officers are buffoons and that class room educated, articulate officers do better work. They reason through problems better, they document better, they follow procedure better.


The issue here would then be an outcry about "community policing" and the ethnic make up of the force.

To be blunt and insensitive, you'll see more white boys from middle class families and communities policing black, Latino and white lower class slums. (More whites numerically live in poverty then blacks)

[imotion s14]

Yeah but why would anyone want to work as a police officer if they have a college education?

[Corbic]

Yeah but why would anyone want to work as a police officer if they have a college education?


Same reason you work as a Military Officer or any other job.

Pay, sense of purpose and duty, love of the job, benefits, security and personal reward and achievement.

Cops actually make good money. If I had 7 years with Texas State Troopers is be making $62k there. That's nothing to sneeze at considering the low cost of living. They also have actual retirement pensions, not some piece of shit 401k match.

[imotion s14]

That link is the biggest pile of shit in the history of mankind.

So an Arab store clerk shoots a black man for trashing his store.... then the Arab clerk is convicted of manslaughter... And this is proof the "white man" is getting away with murdering Blackman?

So I went back and click on that link.

"Michael David Dunn (white vigilante)"

The sad state of education. It is no wonder people can't tell the difference between your, you're anymore.