Israel Invading Palestine

[Kaifd3s]

I've been watching the crisis in Gaza for awhile now. I am just amazed at the US media only portraying the Israelis as the victims.

Curious as to what are fellow Zilvian's thoughts. Proceed.

[Corbic]

I've been watching the crisis in Gaza for awhile now. I am just amazed at the US media only portraying the Israelis as the victims.

Curious as to what are fellow Zilvian's thoughts. Proceed.

10 years ago I felt bad for the Palestinians. Today? Drive them into the sea.

Also, more importantly...

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/c1a717b50b430c0161986940d2c1ba2071e8d67d_m.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WdvBgWG.jpg

http://pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/d0/85/000085d0_medium.jpeg


Vs.

http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/att/images/stories/myths/likethese.jpg

http://www.longwarjournal.org/images/Jundallah-suicide-bombers-Zahedan.jpg

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/bombkvinna445.jpg

[simmode1]

^^^Is that what's going on over there? I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...

[drift freaq]

Both sides are guilty. I know is not politically correct and I have Jewish friends but truth be told both sides are crazy as loons.

[Corbic]

^^^Is that what's going on over there? I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...

Yes - Israel is greedy and wants all the land. Yes, they built settlements in areas they should not have and can be real dicks.

However, people (especially over there) stop caring when Palestinians start kidnapping and murdering teenagers, setting off bus bombs, suicide bombs, hostage takings and launching rockets and motors at civilian targets.

For the longest time the PLO, Palestine Liberation Organization was the representative force of the Palestinian movements. Yasir Arafat was the head clown and surprisingly he could never quite finalize a peace negotiation - turns out he never wanted too. He became a billionaire off the movement and his importance completely relied on distrust and animosity between Palestine and Israel.

Once he died, the Palestinians began to vote into political power members of HAMAS, the Iranian backed jihadist terrorist group. Unlike the politically driven PLO, these guys are far out Al Qaeda crazy fundamentalists. If Hamas and Al Qaeda didn't have Jews and Americans to kill, they would be killing each other as they are on different sides of the Islam coin (Catholics vs Protestants).

So for me, I see the Israelis as an extension of modern, civil western culture. They are loyal allies and are really only there because Europe tried to fucking kill them all off in the first half of the 20th century.

[Matej]

I've always wondered why it is that, we, as a nation have always took Isreal's side when it was them encroaching upon more & more Palestinian land...
It is amazing how much money the US dumps into Israel every year for no benefit to any American citizen. Israel is quickly becoming the new Silicon Valley, all thanks to money from the US.

[Corbic]

Both sides are guilty. I know is not politically correct and I have Jewish friends but truth be told both sides are crazy as loons.

Yes but the IDF is not engaged in organize murder and terrorism. Innocent Palestinians are injured and killed, but that happens out of the military and police actions that Israel is forced to enact to stop terrorist build ups and rocket/motor attacks.

Its no different then 140,000 Iraqi Civilians killed in Iraq over the past 10 years.

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/

[Corbic]

It is amazing how much money the US pumps into Israel every year for no benefit to any American citizen.

What does any of the countries on the list provide us? :-/

At least Israel is helping kill terrorists... instead make them like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraqi, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gaza, etc.

Country U.S. Total Assistance FY 2012,
Afghanistan 12,885.50M
Israel 3,100.10M
Iraq 1,940.10M
Egypt 1,404.00M
Pakistan 1,214.90M
Jordan 1,135.30M
Ethiopia 870.10M
Kenya 749.20M
Colombia 644.30M
Haiti 510.40M
West Bank/Gaza 457.40M
South Sudan 444.30M
Russia 440.90M
Somalia 419.60M
Tanzania 402.00M
Congo (Kinshasa) 388.40M
Uganda 352.40M
Nigeria 335.90M
Sudan 298.10M
South Africa 274.70M
Mozambique 274.00M
Ukraine 273.30M
Yemen 258.50 M
Bangladesh 256.80 M
Liberia 247.10M

[Matej]

What does any of the countries on the list provide us? :-/
Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

[LEG1T]

im with the Palestinians on this one.

[S14DB]

Moved to Loud Noises.

[S14DB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement
Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.


I still don't know what you are talking about? Kosovo?

[Corbic]

Land to build military bases on.

We have bases in Kenya?


Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?

Doubtful, unless you mean their own country far away. They did achieve significant movements toward independence and nothing has improved.


The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place.

We where also quick to defend Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraqs sovereignty.

It's all about the end goal. Europe feared a unified Yugoslavia post Cold War. Yugoslavia always sat in an interesting position between the US and the Soviets. With the Soviets gone, the US no longer needed Yugoslavia and was focused on the Middle East. Europe did not want another aggressive, financial broke and antagonistic military power in their midst.

Israel is a key, stable US/Western Ally in a rather unstable shit hole. Why would we not support them? Every Arab "democracy" we have supported in the last 5 years has become a US hating shit hole. Ever look at our other Arab allies, like Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Jordan? Trust me, their Governments are not eager to give sovereignty back to the people.



Now the US has their largest military base there.

Irrelevant. We should be putting bases in Taiwan and Poland.


Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.

I'm guessing you are pretty ignorant on Balkan history. The region has been a bloody shit hole for the past 2,000 years with Crusades, Muslim invasion, Islamic terrorism, Monarchal and Communist oppression and Nazi and Serbian Genocides...

Why again do Palestinians deserve a country? Israel has only fought a dozen plus wars for the region and had US/UN intervention not take places, they had driven everyone into the sea/surrounding countries by now.


Should we lobby to give back the South West to Mexico, Mexico to Spain, or the whole country to the "Natives"?

[drift freaq]

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.


Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

[S14DB]

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.


Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.
TL;DR: Blame the British
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939

Even ISIS blames the British.
YyM0_sv5h88

Should have listened to Lawrence of Arabia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lawrence_of_Arabia%27s_map%2C_presented_to_the_Eas tern_Committee_of_the_War_Cabinet_in_November_1918 .jpg

[Corbic]

Drift Freaq basically hits the nail on the head with an excellent summarization.

[Matej]

So Russia keeps getting sanctioned and dragged through the mud for things that no one has any evidence they are responsible for, while here we have a full-blown one-sided war and everyone is just letting it slide.
World politics are goofy.

[supersayianjim]

Land to build military bases on.

Maybe the Palestinians would calm down if they were given their own country?
The US sure was quick to carve up Yugoslavia and give the Albanians their own land in the heart of a country they did not belong in in the first place. Now the US has their largest military base there.

Pretty sure the Palestinians deserve their own country a lot more than Albania. But I guess that would not be convenient.



:werd:this man speaks the truth!!

[supersayianjim]

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.


Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.


This is bookmarked thank you sir..

[Corbic]

So Russia keeps getting sanctioned and dragged through the mud for things that no one has any evidence they are responsible for, while here we have a full-blown one-sided war and everyone is just letting it slide.
World politics are goofy.

Russian is trying to reestablish the Soviet Empire by breaking apart and annexing the Ukraine.

Israel is "fighting terrorism" just like we've done in Afghanistan and Iraq for 11 years. Don't you think the Taliban and ISIS/Al Qaeda would calm down if we just give them their own country?

[inopsey]

Herein lies the problem and it goes as far back as WWI. The Brirish Empire was shrinking and they set out a mandate to divide up the Arab world territories they held which did include present day Israel. Now the whole mandate was kind of crazy in the first place because a lot of the Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis etc... Where City states and Nomads. much of Isreal / Palestine was exactly that combo.

Iraq for example should not exist as a country because it consists of three separate factional regions , Shite territories, Sunni Territories and Kurdistan. The only reason it was a country was because it was held together by a totalitarian dictator.


Now Jerusalem happens to be one of the few places that before then end of WWII was home to Jewish, Islamic and Christians that lived alongside each other in peace. Though the Islamics did have there Mosque on the mount atop the ruins of the Jewish ancient Temple.

None the less there were Jews in this region at the time and there were radical Zionist Jews that did engage in random terrorist activity for the sake of re establishment of an Israeli homeland. I don't want to hear arguments against this either because several early Israeli statesmen were actually part of these groups prior to statehood and that is a documented fact.

Needless to say at the end of WWII when what was left of the Jewish concentration camp victims were released honestly and this is a bit said to say no country really wanted to take on the burden of these displaced people. A majority of who had no home to go back to nor desire to go back to where they had been torn from. Under the British Mandate , the allies were able to carve out the state of Israel which at that point was not a part of any country per se and was populated by Nomadic peoples. The first two things that happened though was the newly created Arab countries and the kingdoms who were for the most part Islamic immediately decided not to recognize Israel as a country and to all but declare war out right.

Originally Israel had agreed to let Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel, but the minute hostilities broke out the new Israeli's started getting concerned about this population and this population started feeling uncomfortable and started leaving Israel. Problem was the Arab countries did not want the Palestinians and stuck them in refugee camps not allowing citizenship in their countries either.
Hence the escalation of the situation. Now without getting into to much more explanation there would be several short wars in the end with the Israeli becoming the victors and annexing the North bank, Golan Eights, Gaza Strip.
Problem with this is these were not mandate designated territories for the state of Israel. They were Israel's claim to the truthful actual ancient Israel thereby creating a whole other issue. Now some of these territories they were supposed to give back but what they would do is bulldoze whatever was there and build there own settlements on disputed land. The idealogical idea behind this being " once we have established our own towns we will have a reason and excuse not to give it up. I should add that if they did they would bulldoze the settlements before leaving.

It's all a lot of political one up man ship. While I consider them our allies I do feel they do not help their own situation. Can I blame them? They do live a state of constant alertness if not terror for the rights to their country.

Do I support the Palestinian claim that it was the Palestinians country before? No they were a Nomadic population that knew no boundaries.
Do they deserve a state today? Sure, if they can ever hammer out an actual solid government to run it. Which I don't think they can.

Thereby leading to my previous statement and elaborating on it to say both sides are letting the crazies run the show to a certain extent. The only difference being the Israeli tend to be more educated and with education brings rationale and less crazy.

Radical Islamists seek out the poor and uneducated because they are easily influenced and have nothing to lose and only hope to gain. They promise this hope and sell it down the river.

can you explain egypt's role in the Palestine situation?

[supersayianjim]

Russian is trying to reestablish the Soviet Empire by breaking apart and annexing the Ukraine.

Israel is "fighting terrorism" just like we've done in Afghanistan and Iraq for 11 years. Don't you think the Taliban and ISIS/Al Qaeda would calm down if we just give them their own country?


terrorism? the Indians were considered terrorist when the whites pushed them off their land..

[drift freaq]

can you explain egypt's role in the Palestine situation?

Wow, did you fail to read my post. Egypt's role started in 1947 with the declaration of not recognizing Israel as a country and going to war with them. That is one of the primary causes that started the flood of Palestinian refugee's out of Israel. I do not see Egypt accepting Palestinians today as citizens. I also see Hamas factions alive and flourishing in Egypt today and the Islamic government has no problem with it. Hamas is the main Islamic militant faction causing current hostilities between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

The detente days of Egypt died with Anwar Sadat and who was a brilliant statesmen that saw the futility of the original Egyptian position and sought real change. I might also add that though Egypt had a relatively non militant position under Hosni Muburak he actually abused and bastardized what was left by Anwar Sadat essentially destroying a lot of the achievements.
It ( Egypt, Israel and the Middle East) was closer to the real establishment of a Palestinian state and peace with Israel when Sadat was alive. It was also why he was assassinated. The hard liners in the Arab world could give a rats ass truthfully about the Palestinians . They are merely pawns in their bigger plan. The elimination of Israel as a country and the spread of their idealism.

You may not like this but is a truthful assessment of the political situation of the region (without here from

[supersayianjim]

but Israel has nukes, none else does, why doesn't the rest of the Muslim world understand that?? you can't really destroy Israel....

catch 22 is would they use one of their 150+(according to jimmy carter) nukes in such close proximity to their country??

[Corbic]

but Israel has nukes, none else does, why doesn't the rest of the Muslim world understand that?? you can't really destroy Israel....

catch 22 is would they use one of their 150+(according to jimmy carter) nukes in such close proximity to their country??

Why do you think everyone in the Muslim world is trying to develop Nuclear and Chemical Weapons?

You don't see Serbia, Cuba or Venezuela making the bomb...

[WheelWhore]

Wow, did you fail to read my post. Egypt's role started in 1947 with the declaration of not recognizing Israel as a country and going to war with them. That is one of the primary causes that started the flood of Palestinian refugee's out of Israel. I do not see Egypt accepting Palestinians today as citizens. I also see Hamas factions alive and flourishing in Egypt today and the Islamic government has no problem with it. Hamas is the main Islamic militant faction causing current hostilities between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

The detente days of Egypt died with Anwar Sadat and who was a brilliant statesmen that saw the futility of the original Egyptian position and sought real change. I might also add that though Egypt had a relatively non militant position under Hosni Muburak he actually abused and bastardized what was left by Anwar Sadat essentially destroying a lot of the achievements.
It ( Egypt, Israel and the Middle East) was closer to the real establishment of a Palestinian state and peace with Israel when Sadat was alive. It was also why he was assassinated. The hard liners in the Arab world could give a rats ass truthfully about the Palestinians . They are merely pawns in their bigger plan. The elimination of Israel as a country and the spread of their idealism.

You may not like this but is a truthful assessment of the political situation of the region (without here from


Just want to say, I could listen all day to history lessons from you.

Kudos for the well worded / resourceful responses.

[lewisfk]

There are some valid points throughout thread, but ask yourselves if Mexico or Canada had the views as the Palestinians would you feel comfortable? Our government is full of appeasers, one side banging the drums of war and the other waving the flag of liberal bullshit. Regardless of what side we support, there must be compensation. In the form of money or support when the U.S. government wants to rage war. The Palestinians cant pay the U.S. enough, and lack the strategic bases and abilities to rage war on a large scale. So who would you support?

[drift freaq]

There are some valid points throughout thread, but ask yourselves if Mexico or Canada had the views as the Palestinians would you feel comfortable? Our government is full of appeasers, one side banging the drums of war and the other waving the flag of liberal bullshit. Regardless of what side we support, there must be compensation. In the form of money or support when the U.S. government wants to rage war. The Palestinians cant pay the U.S. enough, and lack the strategic bases and abilities to rage war on a large scale. So who would you support?

Dude wtf are you going on about. 1. The U.S. Is not and has never attacked the Palestinians. We do not owe them anything. Israel is our ally but it does not mean we tell them what to do, or owe for what they do. In fact they quite often do as they please as do several of our other allies like the French. Who I might add sell tech and weapons to countries that are pretty much hostile towards the U.S.

You really either are completely ignorant of geopolitics and mid eastern politics or you are just choosing to obtuse for the sake of argument.
What is going on right now was instigated by a kidnaping and killing of 3 Israeli teenagers by the radical Islamic group Hamas. This is Hamas's actions that have caused retaliation leading to escalation. The Israeli offered a cease fire and the Hamas rejected it. Once again like I said earlier the Palestinians are being used as Pawns by the radical Islamists and Arab countries.

I said this earlier if the Palestinians could screw together a manageable government not overrun by radical Islamic Jihadists they might have a fighting chance at establishing a homeland. Just throwing money a them does not work and is part of or failed foreign policy in that region in the past.

You can't fix something that is not willing to change or be fixed . No appeasing, no apologies harsh cold reality in your face.

[redline racer510]

Palestinian death toll:770
Israeli death toll:32

[RalliartRsX]

What really upsets me is the fact that people are saying how inhumae the IDF and Israel are, but yet, the Hamas are firing missiles from Homes, Schools, Hospitals, etc. of Palestinians. The minute you begin firing rockets from those locations and using your own people as "launch stations", all bets are off and they immediately become military targets.

And worst yet, half the rockets the they have don't even penetrate into Israel.............

[lewisfk]

Dude wtf are you going on about. 1. The U.S. Is not and has never attacked the Palestinians. We do not owe them anything. Israel is our ally but it does not mean we tell them what to do, or owe for what they do. In fact they quite often do as they please as do several of our other allies like the French. Who I might add sell tech and weapons to countries that are pretty much hostile towards the U.S.

You really either are completely ignorant of geopolitics and mid eastern politics or you are just choosing to obtuse for the sake of argument.
What is going on right now was instigated by a kidnaping and killing of 3 Israeli teenagers by the radical Islamic group Hamas. This is Hamas's actions that have caused retaliation leading to escalation. The Israeli offered a cease fire and the Hamas rejected it. Once again like I said earlier the Palestinians are being used as Pawns by the radical Islamists and Arab countries.

I said this earlier if the Palestinians could screw together a manageable government not overrun by radical Islamic Jihadists they might have a fighting chance at establishing a homeland. Just throwing money a them does not work and is part of or failed foreign policy in that region in the past.

You can't fix something that is not willing to change or be fixed . No appeasing, no apologies harsh cold reality in your face.

14 years of military service with 2.5 years served in the middle east, horn of Africa and a few other countries, thats how I can make that statement. Regardless who is right or wrong in comes down to money and future strategic endeavors. The Palestinians have attached Americans, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its great see people talking about the world's problems but many of you are nuking it.

[lewisfk]

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?

[Corbic]

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?


Egypt is siding with Israel on this one.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/egypt-opposes-hamas-gaza-conflict/13043353/

[redline racer510]

Killing 8 civilian to get 1 criminal is pretty messed up.

[Corbic]

Killing 8 civilian to get 1 criminal is pretty messed up.


But it's okay when the US does it?

Their called collateral damage. You realize those civilians elected HAMAS, so it's effectively their own governed putting them I harms way so they get killed. This way HAMAS can make them into politics martyrs on the media and get world opinion against Israel.


HAMAS has no power to stop the blockade. But if they can get stupid Americans to be outraged that the Israelis bombed a school that was launching motors...

...then maybe the US will intervene on HAMAS's behalf and force Israel to lift sanctions...

[redline racer510]

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right

[Corbic]

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right


But the Israelis are not punishing them.
They just happen to be in buildings that are attacking Israelis and the Israelis are returning fire.

The US has killed millions of civilians in our wars. You never hear about it because highlighting it doesn't support our agenda.

Fuck Obama signed the order to drop a rocket on an American citizen with his 12 year old son in the truck while driving down the road in Yemen.

[RalliartRsX]

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right

I relaly don't think you are grasping what is going on here at all..........

If someone fires a "hostile" missile in your direction and continues to fire, are you going to sit back and wait hoping the person(s) who fired the missile appear on radar??

When you are begin a "war", collatoral damage is going to occur.

As the saying goes: Don't poke a sleeping lion in the eye.

And I will flip it for you then: For the settlements that Israel setup, is the punishment to kidnapp and kill 3 Israeli children??

I didn't think so...........

[redline racer510]

Wait I'm not trying to justify anyone's death.Having settlers kick you out of your house claiming god gave them the land while israeli soldiers watch as your home is being bulldozed with a short amount of time given to retrieve your belongings, your saying you would sit there and do nothing?

Didn't think so....BTW I don't mean go out hurting or killing anyone.

Don't get me wrong killing on both sides is in reprehensible and it is wrong for either side to do so.

[drift freaq]

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?

I would tend to agree with you Lewis. . Though like I said earlier they are being used as Pawns as you know is truth. I think their biggest problem is the fact that they have allowed themselves to used as pawns as as well.

The U.S. Is pretty much screwed when it comes to the Middle East . We are damned if we don't do anything in most cases and damned if we do. The largest problem we have over their is most of them do not play by the rules.

I also respect the fact of your service Lewis and it indeed does give you another perspective being their on the front lines if not very close by vs us here.

Once people start realizing that there is pretty much no country in the world that has not done something despicable towards their fellow man is the exact moment where movement towards change can actually happen. Both sides in the current conflict have created legitimate beef except for the fact that provocateur is the ultimate at fault.
In this sense what the U.S. did in the case of Iraq in the last war was unprecedented in our history. We have never been the provocateur . We have always come from a valid position of us or our allies being attacked first.

Our geopolitical stance was largely destroyed by Cheney,Rumsfeld and George W.
Hence the issues we faced previous to their actions were amplified and made harder.

Sorry guys if that pushed a little off the main topic it's just how I feel as an American.

[J3123MY]

Once people start realizing that there is pretty much no country in the world that has not done something despicable towards their fellow man

Lol. I was wondering if Switzerland has done something despicable?

[drift freaq]

Lol. I was wondering if Switzerland has done something despicable?

Well actually they have in the sense that while they remained neutral they sell Arms to all sides thereby contributing to conflagration. Which means they are not exactly innocent like they might try to portray.
If you give a gun to someone knowing they will use it to kill someone and knowing they actually have you are an accessory to the crime by fact. The Swiss were accessories in WWII by fact.

You will not win this, no country is innocent because man is not innocent. It's just a sliding scale from better to worse.

[redline racer510]

I think Palestinians would invite the idea of a US base at this point . But I do agree withdrift freak about the bad rep the US has in this part of the world.

[J3123MY]

lol i was just wondering as I never heard of the swiss' evil deeds.

But according the wikipedia, Iceland is the most peaceful country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

What has iceland done?

[J3123MY]

Well, I guess they were vikings right?

[Corbic]

In this sense what the U.S. did in the case of Iraq in the last war was unprecedented in our history. We have never been the provocateur . We have always come from a valid position of us or our allies being attacked first.



Spanish American War - the provocation was fake, being the sinking of the USS Maine was actually a mechanical failure and not a Spanish plot. Granted it was only contestable at the time, but it's now a proven fact.

I would say we get drawn into stuff because we like sticking our fingers in it. Vietnam, Korea, WWI even WWII; had the US exercised different approaches, opinions or policies we would have never been involved. (for better or worse). But how much of that is hindsight 20-20?

[lewisfk]

The U.S. will always be at war, we will not call it war but the Patriots who choose to sign on the dotted line and fight will. I would like to address the gangs, and hate groups within the U.S. Instead of worrying about a Middle East problem that will never truly work itself out. -Charles Darwin-

[Corbic]

The U.S. will always be at war, we will not call it war but the Patriots who choose to sign on the dotted line and fight will. I would like to address the gangs, and hate groups within the U.S. Instead of worrying about a Middle East problem that will never truly work itself out. -Charles Darwin-


Sure thing buddy. Unfortunately your life style is dependent upon us meddling with world affairs. You don't consume 70% of the world resources by locking yourself in the back room.

Gangs? Legalize drugs - solved.

[No 240.. No id]

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.

Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.

[Corbic]

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.



Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.


Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

[drift freaq]

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

Lol Ironic but fairly good analogy. Yes it is dark humor but pretty much true.

[S14DB]

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

They have been fighting since the Prophet Mohamed died in the 7th century.

[No 240.. No id]

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!


Not exactly. According to my religion (shiite) any one that kill another (for ANY reason) then hell will be waiting for him.

Its not exactly sunnis that fighting and killing, but its people that uses that name. In Iraq we have all different religions, sunnis, shiite, catholic, protestants and wayy more amd we all live happly together.

But thanks to saudis, libyans and afgans not anymore. These people are making a bad name for Islam, they dont even know what islam is, but thanks to cnn and fox news make it sounds like muslims are the #1 public enemy.

Why all this people are fighting there? It is way more like politics than a religion.

I'm replyin using my phone, so try to my igonre grammar.

[No 240.. No id]

They have been fighting since the Prophet Mohamed died in the 7th century.

Not correct. If you look at it to recently, (2000) before the US invaded Iraq, there is no such a thing as a Sunni and Shiite.

Aftere the US left Iraq, all the boarders opened for every and anyone to go there and do just about any thing they wish.

These fighters are supported morally and financially by Saudi, Qatar and Turkey.

[redline racer510]

That's exactly the problem. There are few bad apples mis-representing the majority which the media likes to exploit for the sake of sensationalism. These crazy nuts have taken religion hostage for their own interest.

[Frank_Jaeger]

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.

Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.
I wish I had a nonbiased understanding of the Middle East.

[lewisfk]

Sure thing buddy. Unfortunately your life style is dependent upon us meddling with world affairs. You don't consume 70% of the world resources by locking yourself in the back room.

Gangs? Legalize drugs - solved.


Gangs are nothing but domestic terrorist, same as hate groups. We need to address our Country's violence and corruption. I don't care who we go to war with or conflict we decide to meddle in. I would like this Country to evolve! We need to export not import! Chemical/ Biological / Mechanical Engineers/ Physicist!

You cant force other Countries to change, but you can manipulate them into changing. You do this by being technically superior. Sell them the idea, the hope, and they will find the means to change.

Every few years we broker a deal between the Palestine and Israel for what? This is a vicious cycle of killing, I wish the U.S. picks a side and we end it.

Corbic, locking myself in a room! That's funny, it reminds me of what our politicians do.

[deolio]

there is no solution to the conflict. /thread

[tiggertsi]

We need to address our Country's violence and corruption.
everyday i see people disregard simple laws (like speed limits) just because they can get away with it. and yet these same people expect the government and corporate interests to not do the same thing. maybe the corruption actually starts with the populace at large, including me.

[Corbic]

Gangs are nothing but domestic terrorist, same as hate groups.

Can you link me to the last gang suicide bombing?

What "hate groups" are you talking about, Green Peace and PITA?

Gangs are criminal organizations built around making money by selling drugs, prostitution and gambling. The violence arises out of the fact that they are conducting illegal business - so when someone rips you off you can't call the police or file a corporate lawsuit. Instead you break legs and kill people.

You also have an entire group of people who have been culturally brainwashed for the last 30 years into the Hood Mentality. This why at 16 they don't care if they gotta do 15 years to prove their manhood.

This mentality isn't going to change because of Government intervention. That is, unless you mean to round these unsupervised youths up and send them to boot camps and state run facilitates like some sort of Philip K DIck future dystopia.


ohqnQ1YzohU

[Corbic]

Not correct. If you look at it to recently, (2000) before the US invaded Iraq, there is no such a thing as a Sunni and Shiite.

Aftere the US left Iraq, all the boarders opened for every and anyone to go there and do just about any thing they wish.



Or really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War

It followed a long history of border disputes, and was motivated by fears that the Iranian Revolution in 1979 would inspire insurgency among Iraq's long-suppressed Shia majority as well as Iraq's desire to replace Iran as the dominant Persian Gulf state.

This war and the debt the Iraq accumulated fighting it lead to the Kuwait invasion, which lead to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arabs requiring US assistance which pissed off Bin Ladin.... and the rest is history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia–Sunni_relations


This has been going on for a very long time, it's only in the last 15 years that the West has given a crap because it's only in the last 15 years that is has mattered to us.



These fighters are supported morally and financially by Saudi, Qatar and Turkey.

Yes, cause Iran isn't funding terrorism. :bowrofl:

[lewisfk]

Can you link me to the last gang suicide bombing?

What "hate groups" are you talking about, Green Peace and PITA?

Gangs are criminal organizations built around making money by selling drugs, prostitution and gambling. The violence arises out of the fact that they are conducting illegal business - so when someone rips you off you can't call the police or file a corporate lawsuit. Instead you break legs and kill people.

You also have an entire group of people who have been culturally brainwashed for the last 30 years into the Hood Mentality. This why at 16 they don't care if they gotta do 15 years to prove their manhood.

This mentality isn't going to change because of Government intervention. That is, unless you mean to round these unsupervised youths up and send them to boot camps and state run facilitates like some sort of Philip K DIck future dystopia.


ohqnQ1YzohU

Great song, and so true of the modern black youth. I found this so funny: http://www.complex.com/music/2014/01/juicy-j-scholarship-winner-zaire-holmes-interview

Yes its from Complex Mag. but once in a while they have some good articles. The reason I equated gangs and terrorism is the effect it has on a community and how it destroys everyone. This country can spend billions fighting the Al-Qaida , but cant solve or empower the local populous to fight and demand change! People ran to the polls for change and got what? Look up the amount of violence that happen in Chicago over the recent 4 July weekend. I wish the military could mobilize to help the police.

Back on Topic!

If the Palestinian people want a land of there own, they must call for a truce with Israel. Address Hamas and there supporters, and ask for UN to define the borders of their new country. They could us the deal the U.S. brokered in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

Any other suggestions guys?

[Corbic]

.

Back on Topic!

If the Palestinian people want a land of there own, they must call for a truce with Israel. Address Hamas and there supporters, and ask for UN to define the borders of their new country. They could us the deal the U.S. brokered in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

Any other suggestions guys?


The real answer is that the Palestinians should take whatever Israel gives them and sit the fuck down.

Going to the UN is idiocy. The UN is strongly anti-semitic and anti-Israeli. They will draw up some idiotic lines based off pre-post war annexations and expect Israel to give up settlements.

The fact is the Palestinians and the Arab world lack the power to get rid of Israel and defeat them in conflict. The Palestinians lost, they need to deal with that. Israel will give them a fair deal and respect the deal that they (Israel) offers. Sure it may feel like eating a shit sandwich, but if Palestine wants peace, take one for the team and let Israel keep the annex lands.

Then maybe Palestine can work with Israel to bring economic prosperity to the region and improve the lives of its people.

[No 240.. No id]

^ With out disrespect, but you know nothing about whats going on out there at all. I'm not saying this because i watch fox news. I'm saying this because i have family there, i been ther and its my country i care more and know more than you do!!

To answer your last post,

There is not really a "Arab world" that support the palastine. "Only the lebnanese (Hizb Alah) that support the palastine fighters and thats because of the Mosque.

All the other Arab countries such as Jordan, Algeria, Saudi "Arabia", Qatar and a lot more are on their knees sucking Isreals dick.

This is 2014 Not 1970 when then the old presidents of these countries I mentioned above USED to support palastine.

But like I said, please don't try to educate me of what's real or not, because I been to all over the middle east and I know what exactlly they are.

Again I'm replying from my phone, so excuse my grammar.

[drift freaq]

There is not really a "Arab world" that support the palastine. "Only the lebnanese (Hizb Alah) that support the palastine fighters and thats because of the Mosque.
.

This is what I have said repeatedly. Oh and in fact the only support the other countries in the region ever gave the Palestinians. Was more mere lip service that anything. Merely pawns in the fight against Israel.

[Corbic]

^ With out disrespect, but you know nothing about whats going on out there at all.

Sure, whatever. You even make a fox news quip.



I'm not saying this because i watch fox news. I'm saying this because i have family there, i been ther and its my country i care more and know more than you do!!

That makes no sense what so ever especially since we are talking about Palestine and you are claiming to be from Iraq. Guess which country I have friends in and do business with.




To answer your last post,

There is not really a "Arab world" that support the palastine. "Only the lebnanese (Hizb Alah) that support the palastine fighters and thats because of the Mosque. .

Would the term "Islamic World" make you feel better? I also didn't say anything about "supporting Palestine", anyone smart enough to wipe their own ass can see past the Islamic "our brothers" rhetoric. Where was all the Middle Eastern love during the 2004 Tsunami? The worlds largest Islamic nation gets wiped out and Saudi Arabia couldn't even sign a check for 100million. OMFG, look out, one of the wealthiest nations in the world is handing out a 30m check!



All the other Arab countries such as Jordan, Algeria, Saudi "Arabia", Qatar and a lot more are on their knees sucking Isreals dick.

Good.


This is 2014 Not 1970 when then the old presidents of these countries I mentioned above USED to support palastine.

Yeah, so where them Palestinians getting rockets, motors and machine guns? Was it 1970 when Saddam launched Scud Missiles on Israel and tired to convince the, ahem, Muslim World to go to war with Israel again?

Have the on going boarder classes with Lebanon and Syria all been in the 1970s? Was 1970 only 8 years ago when Israel went to war with Lebanon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Lebanese_conflict



But like I said, please don't try to educate me of what's real or not, because I been to all over the middle east and I know what exactlly they are.
.

So tell me, which country has a populous that openly loves and accepts the jewish state Israel? Just because Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan realized it's better to make money and deal with the US than it is to fight with Israel doesn't mean there is any love'n going on.

Yes, we all know the Palestinians are pawns - but that doesn't mean the make the world a jewish friendly place.

Clearly ware on opposite sides of this issue. No need to try and "Educate" me.

[No 240.. No id]

Do you use wikipedia a lot?

You seem like a bit ignorant, so i will just stop right here. I hate wasting my time

[Corbic]

Do you use wikipedia a lot?

You seem like a bit ignorant, so i will just stop right here. I hate wasting my time

With no disrespect I think you have no idea what you are talking about and are just sorely biased against Israel. So sorry that Wikipedia is an easy reference source for general information when typing in the googles for a quick link.

(As a side note the term "ignorant" implies that one is without knowledge, not that they are incapable of learning or unwilling to learn. This would mean you absolutely would not be wasting your time to educate them.)

Also, believe it or not, Wikipedia has been proven rather accurate and no more biased then any other OPINION of events. When you grow up you will realize there is no such thing as the truth, only perspectives of events.

As I said early on, the US has KILLED LOTS OF CIVILIANS in the name of "fighting terrorism", Obama and Kerry included - however because it's politically convenient they now have their panties in a bunch over some dead Palestinians.

Where is the outrage over Syria? Oh, that's last years.

Here, does the Huffington Posst Post make you feel better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20140728/ml-syria/


The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said about 1,240 soldiers and other Assad loyalists have been killed in the past 10 days in northern Syria.

They are among more than 1,800 people killed in the same period — a record number of deaths since the uprising against Assad began in March 2011, according to Rami Abdurrahman, the Observatory's director


Personally I think the administration is using Israel as a distraction from the Russian-Ukrainian issues which they have no sound solution for.

[lewisfk]

Wow this has turn ugly! Civil Debate Please, maybe I'm stupid! Who is up for solving the World's problem or putting a giant ban aid on the situation for the next generation to solve! The main problem with the conflict is there will be no generation left if we wait. A couple hundred kids a year die on both sides, add in a natural disaster or disease anything is possible. I'll grab the popcorn!

[HORShi]

With no disrespect I think you have no idea what you are talking about and are just sorely biased against Israel. So sorry that Wikipedia is an easy reference source for general information when typing in the googles for a quick link.

(As a side note the term "ignorant" implies that one is without knowledge, not that they are incapable of learning or unwilling to learn. This would mean you absolutely would not be wasting your time to educate them.)

Also, believe it or not, Wikipedia has been proven rather accurate and no more biased then any other OPINION of events. When you grow up you will realize there is no such thing as the truth, only perspectives of events.

As I said early on, the US has KILLED LOTS OF CIVILIANS in the name of "fighting terrorism", Obama and Kerry included - however because it's politically convenient they now have their panties in a bunch over some dead Palestinians.

Where is the outrage over Syria? Oh, that's last years.

Here, does the Huffington Posst Post make you feel better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20140728/ml-syria/





Personally I think the administration is using Israel as a distraction from the Russian-Ukrainian issues which they have no sound solution for.

I had to highlight your some of your statements in your post in bold Corbic. Because as horrific this ongoing (seems like going to be forever lasting) battle in the Middle East period...not just Israel v. Palestine, but the entire region. The US is simply looking for a timeout, a half time show. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of this event over the Russian-Ukrainian situation, but seriously...most probably forgot about the Russian-Ukrainian situation in this mist of wildness.

Remember Syria?, halftime show...Afghanistan? Pre-grame show for Iraq theater. Palestine v. Israel? I truly believe the US have no interest over there, besides the fact that I believe they're only interested in this conflict to possibly to buy a timeout from the RUS-UKR incident.

[deolio]

Time for a 7 year bump to this never-ending conflict...

[Corbic]

Time for a 7 year bump to this never-ending conflict...

Biden, getting things back to normal...

[ixfxi]

Biden, getting things back to normal...

jews gettin beat the fuck up by palestinian mobs, police aint arresting, DA letting people go

yep... sounds like normal US-of-A to me.

"come on, man"

[mechanicalmoron]

The real answer is that the Palestinians should take whatever Israel gives them and sit the fuck down.

Going to the UN is idiocy. The UN is strongly anti-semitic and anti-Israeli. They will draw up some idiotic lines based off pre-post war annexations and expect Israel to give up settlements.

The fact is the Palestinians and the Arab world lack the power to get rid of Israel and defeat them in conflict. The Palestinians lost, they need to deal with that. Israel will give them a fair deal and respect the deal that they (Israel) offers. Sure it may feel like eating a shit sandwich, but if Palestine wants peace, take one for the team and let Israel keep the annex lands.

Then maybe Palestine can work with Israel to bring economic prosperity to the region and improve the lives of its people.
That's all fucking stupid.

It's a concentration camp with a population of half children. Israel constantly steals more territory. and puts more people into less space as they steal those people's space. We know how this book ends.

So when the concentration camp elects their resistance fighters into formal office, what does that change, except israel's pretext? They're the victims, they can fight any way they want.

You, a safe bootlicker on the other side of the world, talking about strategy (meaning shut up and take it) for ghetto inmates on the other side of the world, is shameful. Palestine has a right to exist, and a right to fight their oppressors.

Imagine what this cuck would have said about the warsaw ghetto uprising. Just wait it out and be cool, why are you antagonizing them?

Or of david and goliath?

Just sit down, says the cuck.

[Corbic]

That's all fucking stupid.

It's a concentration camp with a population of half children. Israel constantly steals more territory. and puts more people into less space as they steal those people's space. We know how this book ends.

So when the concentration camp elects their resistance fighters into formal office, what does that change, except israel's pretext? They're the victims, they can fight any way they want.

You, a safe bootlicker on the other side of the world, talking about strategy (meaning shut up and take it) for ghetto inmates on the other side of the world, is shameful. Palestine has a right to exist, and a right to fight their oppressors.

Imagine what this cuck would have said about the warsaw ghetto uprising. Just wait it out and be cool, why are you antagonizing them?

Or of david and goliath?

Just sit down, says the cuck.

So if the Gaza Strip is now a "concentration camp", then what does that make Hamas and Hezbollah... the SS Prison Guards?

If the argument is the land known as Israel today belongs to the people called Palestinians, well, that's just retarded.

As recent as 1900 that region belonged to Turkey (Ottoman Empire).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ey0IxlvtuVY/T1bDNPkQvDI/AAAAAAAAAHU/7pCLxNJKaYQ/s1600/Islamic_States_1900_lg.jpg

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1920, the region belonged to the newly formed Jordan and Syria.

http://geocrusader80.blogspot.com/2012/03/geographic-history-of-islamic-states.html

So with that said, the tell here is two fold.

First, the Pinochet Effect - where everyone was up and arms over the dude but silent on all the other dictators of the world -with absolutely far more abhorrent human rights records.

Same is true for Israel.

All the people crying about stolen land, home land rights and ancient borders for Palestine, are dead silent when it comes to Kurds, Armenians, Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Falklands, Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Sudetenland, Texas, Korea, Manchuria, Kashmir, Rhodesia, South Africa and probably a billion total displaced people around the world.

The other big red flag is in the Palestinian demands. They had an opportunity for a one state solution and accept becoming Israelis, but have endlessly rejected this wanting two states.

Now they have that - but the leadership needs the strife to continue to remain in power and their openly stated ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel and the Genocide of the Jewish people. Not exactly a rational or realistic goal.

Their actions are also very transparent. They launch attacks against Israeli civilians knowing it will invoke retaliation. If they targeted exclusively soldiers and military targets - you might see Israelis reflecting on reducing militarization. But no, it's always Civilians, ensuring the populous demands military reaction.

Palestine then ensure the perpetrators of these attacks are centered in dense population centers like schools, hospitals and most recently, news stations - using human shields and hoping for death and chaos.

This then feeds their warped propaganda that Israel is a bunch of child killing fascists - gaining support from the Palestinian population and drawing world sympathy (and money).

Hamas knows it can't topple Israel, they want a massive regional conflict and to sucker in the other Arab states to do this for them.

[Corbic]

Sums it up.

https://i.imgur.com/TH131s7.jpg

[mav1178]

All the people crying about stolen land, home land rights and ancient borders for Palestine, are dead silent when it comes to Kurds, Armenians, Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Falklands, Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Sudetenland, Texas, Korea, Manchuria, Kashmir, Rhodesia, South Africa and probably a billion total displaced people around the world.



Don't include Taiwan in this discussion with regards to stolen land, homeland rights, and ancient borders.

[Corbic]

Don't include Taiwan in this discussion with regards to stolen land, homeland rights, and ancient borders.

Why, it's literally the exact same situation.

China (Palestine) is claiming it's theirs even though historically Taiwan (Israel) has the historically further back claim.

However, China (Palestine) argue that ancient claim is voided since they at one point had occupied it - never mind they lost their occupation rights hundreds of years ago to other invading empires (Japan, Ottomans).

History of Taiwan is that Qing Dynasty conquered it in the 17th Century however Japan had also been trying to claim ownership since then. Japan eventually seized control and ruled Taiwan from 1895 until Imperial Japan's collapse in 1945. In 1949, Taiwan became a separate country following the Chinese Civil War.

The CCP has never owned Taiwan and the last claim the mainland had was signed away after the Sino-Japanese war in 1895.

So this is just like how the Palestinians, who are not the original ancient holders of Israel, for the last 500 years have had no autonomous rule or control over the region, and today have no autonomous rule or control over the region.

So how again are they (China, Palestine) entitled to it?

[mav1178]

Why, it's literally the exact same situation.

China (Palestine) is claiming it's theirs even though historically Taiwan (Israel) has the historically further back claim.

However, China (Palestine) argue that ancient claim is voided since they at one point had occupied it - never mind they lost their occupation rights hundreds of years ago to other invading empires (Japan, Ottomans).

History of Taiwan is that Qing Dynasty conquered it in the 17th Century however Japan had also been trying to claim ownership since then. Japan eventually seized control and ruled Taiwan from 1895 until Imperial Japan's collapse in 1945. In 1949, Taiwan became a separate country following the Chinese Civil War.

The CCP has never owned Taiwan and the last claim the mainland had was signed away after the Sino-Japanese war in 1895.

So this is just like how the Palestinians, who are not the original ancient holders of Israel, for the last 500 years have had no autonomous rule or control over the region, and today have no autonomous rule or control over the region.

So how again are they (China, Palestine) entitled to it?

It's not, but you are missing several key points.

Preface: my family is from Taiwan, half of my heritage is intimately tied to the Chinese Civil War.

What you are conveniently leaving out is the history prior to the 17th Century, the period from 1945-1949, as well as the current government and status quo.

You also leave out the reason why the ROC was allowed to survive post-1949, which was the outbreak of the Korean War and the subsequent deployment of the US 7th Fleet to prevent China from invading Taiwan. At the same time, it also made the split permanent.

I can type a lot more about this but the background and stories are NOT parallel to what is going on in Palestine. Taiwan is made up of 3 large groups of people: aborigines, "Taiwanese" circa 1600s to 1895 (and their descendents), and "mainlanders" circa 1945-1950.

With regards to land claim, you conveniently left out the Treaty of San Francisco of 1951 in which Japan renounces its rights post-1901 for Taiwan/Korea/Hong Kong/etc. As for who the legitimate government of China is (covering the periods during which Taiwan was inhabited), it would be Ming Dynasty > Ching Dynasty > Republic of China (1911-1949) > People's Republic of China (1950-)

Taiwan did not become "a separate country following the Chinese Civil War" as so many people seem to think. It simply became the home of what is left of the Republic of China.

Keep filling in the blanks via Wikipedia, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

[Corbic]

It's not, but you are missing several key points.

Preface: my family is from Taiwan, half of my heritage is intimately tied to the Chinese Civil War.

What you are conveniently leaving out is the history prior to the 17th Century, the period from 1945-1949, as well as the current government and status quo.

You also leave out the reason why the ROC was allowed to survive post-1949, which was the outbreak of the Korean War and the subsequent deployment of the US 7th Fleet to prevent China from invading Taiwan. At the same time, it also made the split permanent.

I can type a lot more about this but the background and stories are NOT parallel to what is going on in Palestine. Taiwan is made up of 3 large groups of people: aborigines, "Taiwanese" circa 1600s to 1895 (and their descendents), and "mainlanders" circa 1945-1950.

With regards to land claim, you conveniently left out the Treaty of San Francisco of 1951 in which Japan renounces its rights post-1901 for Taiwan/Korea/Hong Kong/etc. As for who the legitimate government of China is (covering the periods during which Taiwan was inhabited), it would be Ming Dynasty > Ching Dynasty > Republic of China (1911-1949) > People's Republic of China (1950-)

Taiwan did not become "a separate country following the Chinese Civil War" as so many people seem to think. It simply became the home of what is left of the Republic of China.

Keep filling in the blanks via Wikipedia, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

I'm aware of all of this shaving studied the CCP 15 years ago. Your argument, that Taiwan, theainland and CCP have a complicated history in the 20th century doesn't change anything. The same is true for the middle east.

The end result is China (CCP) claims all historical regions are still part of China (CCP) and all "Chinese People" still belong to China.


Pretty much the same argument that Adolf Hitler and thr Nazis made - all German People and previous German territory belong to Germany.

This again mimicks the Palestinian claim that all once Arab/Islamic land is now always Arab/Islamic.


So do you belive the Intel that suggests China will try to retake Taiwan this decade?

Will it be Germany taking the Sudetenland or will it be the Invasion of Poland?

China also, long term, wants to take all of Asia with Indochina next on the list (Vietnam).

[mav1178]

China also, long term, wants to take all of Asia with Indochina next on the list (Vietnam).

I was going to respond to your post but your last point is just flat out absurd.

I'm not going to entertain replying to this anymore. China's leadership is stupid but they're not insane.

[Corbic]

I was going to respond to your post but your last point is just flat out absurd.

I'm not going to entertain replying to this anymore. China's leadership is stupid but they're not insane.

I'd consider genocide, concentration camps, Islamic conversion therapy, organ harvesting, 1 child policy, 3 child policy, etc to all be insane..


You realize China did invade Vietnam in 1979...

And continues to carve off land near India with fatal boarder skirmishes and the whole BS with the South China Sea.

Do you doubt China wants to invade Taiwan? Do you support that and their end to the Two-System policy in HK?