Godspeed Intake Manifold?

[derass]

Anyone have experience with these? Im looking to get one for my S13 SR20DET. What is the casting quality like? How was the install overall? Should I just spend a few more bucks and get a less crappy ISIS? I'm aware that these knockoff manifolds sometimes require the casting and threads be cleaned up. Thanks!

edit: I would most likely have the throttle body, cylinder head and possibly IACV flanges planed at a machine shop.

[ayuaddict]

I'm sure it will work fine if you machine the flange flat, clean up all the casting and empty the shavings/chinese sand/whatever the hell these things are made of. It might even flow as well as an OEM part at that point.

[racepar1]

Should I just spend a few more bucks and get a less crappy ISIS?

Is the 240sx "community" REALLY degrading to the point where we try to differentiate which one is better between two pieces of shit???

Godspeed=ISIS=Megan=ANY other bottom line knockoff shit... Not one is any better than the other.

[thefro526]

Godspeed=ISIS=Megan=ANY other bottom line knockoff shit... Not one is any better than the other.

This. This a million times over. The only thing that differs a lot of this stuff is the color, and how good the warranty is.

People buy these and have been running them for years. They work, how well? Who knows. The quality is hit or miss, but if your willing to spend the money to have it cleaned up, then you'll probably correct most of the issues.

With that being said, the final total after having it machined/cleaned up is probably pretty close or in excess of the real part.

[racepar1]

This. This a million times over. The only thing that differs a lot of this stuff is the color, and how good the warranty is.

I bet if you go to the poorest district in China to the Godspeed, Megan, and ISIS factories it would look like this. One HUGE factory with 3 doors. One door says "Megan", another says "Godspeed", and the third says "ISIS"...

:down:

[ixfxi]

I thought there were only two doors....
1) Entrance
2) Exit

and then a bunch of boxes in various palettes going to the various vendors in the US that sell that cheap shit...

Just saying...

[jamg]

everyone talks about a chinese factory.

not a single person has actually been there

lol

[ayuaddict]

everyone talks about a chinese factory.

not a single person has actually been there

lol

hey man.

Chinese peasants are people too.

[drumer_boy456]

OMG I just got my intake manifold today. Glad to see this thread. Best product ive ever seen. Best product to come from jdm. So awesome! Im gonna order godspeed suspension.

[Sugoi_Style]

You get what you pay for.

[BossHogg]

Get, at the very least, least new or better exhaust hangers and fab up some flex pipe into your dp. This will at least prevent manifold cracking to some degree during exhaust contact to ground while driving. But you get what you can afford. Its a rich mans game, but sell the manifold when you can afford a better built one. Not from China.

yo dawg. He said intake manifold.

[Corbic]

Isn't this a searchable topic anyways?

I'm so sick of the whole "parts" debates. It's all fucking unsubstantiated bullshit anyway.

[tiggertsi]

You get what you pay for.

not true at all times, if you mean the more expensive the product the better quality it is. how often does a major brand name confer a higher price just because said brand name? more often than most people suspect. not that i am giving an opinion on this intake manifold as i simply do not know.

[racepar1]

I'm so sick of the whole "parts" debates. It's all fucking unsubstantiated bullshit anyway.

Pretty much every single thing you post is "unsubstantiated", I'm sick of that too...

:squint:

[Drift_FX]

solution..... make your own intake manifold. you will know the quality, and its not any more expensive then your "brand name" manifolds.... screw "JDM" ...my manifolds are both american made!...lol

[tricky_ab]

Is the 240sx "community" REALLY degrading to the point where we try to differentiate which one is better between two pieces of shit???

Godspeed=ISIS=Megan=ANY other bottom line knockoff shit... Not one is any better than the other.

It's sad, but it's the damn truth...

...ugh....

[Corbic]

Pretty much every single thing you post is "unsubstantiated", I'm sick of that too...

:squint:

Facts don't need to be substantiated; that's a fact.

[Corbic]

It's sad, but it's the damn truth...

...ugh....



I thought that happened almost 10 years ago with Megan vs Ksport?

Is not unique to the 240 world.

[Sugoi_Style]

not true at all times, if you mean the more expensive the product the better quality it is. how often does a major brand name confer a higher price just because said brand name? more often than most people suspect. not that i am giving an opinion on this intake manifold as i simply do not know.

While they're is always exceptions to the rule, in motorsport, the price usually reflects R&D and craftsmanship for a company over a sustained time. Besides we cant survive on their wages, but communism makes it easy for the chinese to do how they do. Jeremy Clarkson says it best.

[tricky_ab]

There ya go...

K0bNf-jcVU0&app

[derass]

Lots of replys, none with first hand experience.

It might even flow as well as an OEM part at that point.

Not sure what you mean by this, an OEM manifold or an aftermarket manifold built to OEM standards?

People buy these and have been running them for years. They work, how well? Who knows. The quality is hit or miss, but if your willing to spend the money to have it cleaned up, then you'll probably correct most of the issues.

With that being said, the final total after having it machined/cleaned up is probably pretty close or in excess of the real part.

It is true than many people are using these knockoff manifolds, just look at the GT2871 thread.

The GReddy manifold is $900, knockoffs are under $200. Sure, the genuine part will have a better finish, but will it provide 4 times the HP gains? I have a die grinder and dremel, the machine work would be $50-100.

Isn't this a searchable topic anyways?

I did search, there is nothing about the Godspeed manifold, there is a thread about the ISIS and it states that it isn't too bad.

not true at all times, if you mean the more expensive the product the better quality it is. not that i am giving an opinion on this intake manifold as i simply do not know.

This is true, a friend of mine had the rod end of his brand new PBM LCA's fall apart. Thank you for witholding an opinion without any first hand experience.

[Matej]

Why do people pay for brands such as ISIS or Godspeed which are just middlemen for Ebay parts when one can buy the exact same part on Ebay for cheaper and without any brand name?

[Corbic]

Why do people pay for brands such as ISIS or Godspeed which are just middlemen for Ebay parts, when one can buy the exact same part on Ebay for cheaper and without any brand name?

Matej, I really don't want to start a freaking war over this but there IS a difference.

I'm not in anyway saying "buy Brand-XYZ", but I've seen enough parts and know enough people working with said parts that there is a difference between a ISIS FMIC and a CRX FMIC and a "no-name eBay" FMIC.


There is a sliding scale of material control and build quality. So while a Godspeed FMIC is inferior to a Blitz FMIC in material, fit and finish... the "eBay" FMIC will be inferior to a Godspeed in material, fit and finish.

As the saying goes "you often get what you pay for".

The other benefit of buying a ISIS part is you are typically buying them from Enjuku, who is a long standing reputable company. Buy from eBay is bad for two reasons, A. you are support eBay and their predatory business practices as well as fucking paypal. B. you never know who you are buying from and what the ACTUAL parts look like. I think we've all be screwed over on eBay at one time.

So it's only natural to pay the extra 25% for an ISIS part over the eBay one because it should be to "isis spec" and if it's not, Enjuku will make it right.

[Matej]

So basically, they are the exact same parts from the exact same place, except brands such as ISIS or Godspeed make sure to pick out ones that turned out decently, while the 'no brand' ones that end up on Ebay have a larger chance of being a hit or a miss?
At least that is how I always hoped it works, so they would at least have some justification for charging a bit more, instead of just preying on ignorant people.
Because I have held ISIS parts and 'Ebay' parts that were completely identical, down to the stampings and spots in the material that made it obvious they were made in the same place.

[DJ-of-E]

It is true than many people are using these knockoff manifolds, just look at the GT2871 thread.

The GReddy manifold is $900, knockoffs are under $200. Sure, the genuine part will have a better finish, but will it provide 4 times the HP gains? I have a die grinder and dremel, the machine work would be $50-100.

It is also true these manifolds crack under high street compared to brand name. You have see how it was made from fit to finish. A metal works fabricator could make one for $600 and could be just as good as Greddy and he would show you what material used for its construction.


I did search, there is nothing about the Godspeed manifold, there is a thread about the ISIS and it states that it isn't too bad.

Isis turbo exhaust manifold is not bad. You just need to clean up some of the messy welding jobs. Some of welding spikes hurt. I wouldn't trust intakes because you need to really be keen on making sure the surface and welds are as smooth as possible. Little weld flakes can destroy the intake valvetrain and maybe cylinders of the engine.


This is true, a friend of mine had the rod end of his brand new PBM LCA's fall apart. Thank you for witholding an opinion without any first hand experience.

On my current 240sx, I do not use those lower control arms because I would like to drive on the street sometimes. A lot of the stock suspension is designed to handle daily road abuse where these aftermarket arms, which still strong, doesn't hold up well against train tracks. Also paired with energy suspension bushings that binds and you're asking for world of trouble.

[ixfxi]

I'm so sick of the whole "parts" debates. It's all fucking unsubstantiated bullshit anyway.
Pretty much every single thing you post is "unsubstantiated", I'm sick of that too...

Exactly. The thing that sucks about this forum is that most of the people are just consumers who maybe have played with a part or two, and they think they are justified in stating their opinions as facts. The fact is, Aaron is a fucking master mechanic and works on cars day-in and day-out. So, if you're going to support shitty parts, you better bring some facts to the table as to why we should value your opinion. I'm not saying this to talk shit, I'm saying this because I despise most aftermarket parts and love OEM quality. And as someone who works on cars on a daily basis, I can tell you first-hand that the majority of problems I see are from shitty aftermarket parts. I take pride in micro-analyzing everything that falls into my possession and I *always* find serious flaws with shitty aftermarket parts. And I'm not talking just about shitty tuner/racer parts, I'm talking aftermarket OE-equivalent parts like you would find on RockAuto.


Lots of replys, none with first hand experience.
The GReddy manifold is $900, knockoffs are under $200. Sure, the genuine part will have a better finish, but will it provide 4 times the HP gains? I have a die grinder and dremel, the machine work would be $50-100.

Dude, before this gets messy... let me help you out.

You are a cheap fuck. Smart people dont value a part based on how much it costs vs how much HP you make. A McLaren F1 isnt 100,000 times faster than a 240SX. A 20" dick does not give a girl double the pleasure of a fucking 10" dick. Seriously, how fucking stupid can you be. Here are the reasons why you should spend $900:
1) Because Greddy designed and manufactured that component
2) Because its high quality and not flawed
3) Because its the right thing to do

In the end, it doesnt matter because you suffer from CFS (cheap fuck syndrome) and you're going to support some shitty slave-labor company, which in the end will probably result in motor failure which will cost you much, much more in the long run. Dont worry, you wont be able to figure out which part failed on you because all of the parts on your jank car are all shitty. You could say its a collaboration of shitty parts, resulting in a piece of shit car.


Why do people pay for brands such as ISIS or Godspeed which are just middlemen for Ebay parts when one can buy the exact same part on Ebay for cheaper and without any brand name?

Matej ...... you seriously want to know the truth?

Because Enjuku gives you free stickers with your purchase.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/18f483a1112a963255650dee10a42e3e/tumblr_mly2hnDanh1s4iwrho1_500.jpg

Ah yes, I always wanted to look like a fucking douchebag.

[waxball88]

Greddy "Designed" and "Engineered" their catch cans too. So i should buy those empty boxes of shit with the pretty logo that are not a true catch can because they designed, engineered, and made them.
I hope a bad casting in the ebay can doesnt blow the welds on the intake manifold.
:rolleyes:

[Corbic]

Exactly. The thing that sucks about this forum is that most of the people are just consumers who maybe have played with a part or two, and they think they are justified in stating their opinions as facts. The fact is, Aaron is a fucking master mechanic and works on cars day-in and day-out.

I already see where you are going - so go re-read what I said. I made no defense of, nor attack on "knock off parts". I'm just sick of hearing about them. I'm sick of their champions telling the world how awesome they are and how everyone should lay-off. I'm sick of the JDM-Brandwhores bitching about how "knock-offs" ruined the scene and are responsible for the deaths of millions of teenagers.

Aaron is a master mechanic? Whoop-De-Fucking doo. Does that mean he has hooked up all the SR20DET intakes and rocked the flow-bench to see what flows best? Has he done a tooling and quality sustainment study of the manufacturing process of the Chinese casters that make the knock-off intakes? Does have GD&T data on an impact study for the parts and their assemblies?

No, I bet he's seen some shitty made parts and some good made parts. Obviously good made parts are better.


So, if you're going to support shitty parts, you better bring some facts to the table as to why we should value your opinion. I'm not saying this to talk shit, I'm saying this because I despise most aftermarket parts and love OEM quality.

Once again my friend, re-read my statement. I have a long history of playing devils advocate and being rather pragmatic on the whole "knock offs vs name brand". I can also put my money where my mouth is with my own build.


And as someone who works on cars on a daily basis, I can tell you first-hand that the majority of problems I see are from shitty aftermarket parts. I take pride in micro-analyzing everything that falls into my possession and I *always* find serious flaws with shitty aftermarket parts.

Don't forget install. Even with quality parts it's hard to replicate the precision of factory assembly and install. "built engines" are a great example. I've seen dozens of "built engines" with top-notch parts fail because the builder was a more or less "experienced non-professional builder" and something just ended up not "perfect".


And I'm not talking just about shitty tuner/racer parts, I'm talking aftermarket OE-equivalent parts like you would find on RockAuto.


That goes without saying. 3rd party stock parts are utterly garbage built to the lowest bid. You also have to remember that the 3rd party companies do not have any access to original drawing, specs or testing requirements. I learned that back in high school working on cars. Cheap metal, cheap fasteners, cheap rubbers, terrible dimensions and tolerances.

[Corbic]

So basically, they are the exact same parts from the exact same place, except brands such as ISIS or Godspeed make sure to pick out ones that turned out decently, while the 'no brand' ones that end up on Ebay have a larger chance of being a hit or a miss?
At least that is how I always hoped it works, so they would at least have some justification for charging a bit more, instead of just preying on ignorant people.
Because I have held ISIS parts and 'Ebay' parts that were completely identical, down to the stampings and spots in the material that made it obvious they were made in the same place.


Next time you have the chance, you should take photos.

My personal experience is more with the FMIC parts. I've personally seen plenty of eBay and ISIS FMICs, they are absolutely not the same, nor are the pipes. There is also a big difference in various ebay FMIC.

[GarageMaks14]

This is what's wrong people these days is nobody takes pride in their car anymore.

People go by Price over pride now a days.

Sure we all know everyone has a different level of expendable income to dump in their car but spending more of a quality name brand item that you know isn't going to fail on you and the pride of having a legit part is all worth it.

Ikea Formula intake plenum (3k)
http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/images/product_notice/4throttle/a.jpg

>

FAILSPEED(ching chong china special) 150-500
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/9/0/9/3/4/5/webimg/161569921_tp.jpg

[Drift_FX]

this goes back to what i said earlier... (when you can) make your own parts... why?

because:
its bad ass
custom for your setup
you know its quality
you spend less money than "legit" parts(most of the time)
plus you learn a skill that most people are too lazy to try themselves.....

[teh smithers]

this goes back to what i said earlier... (when you can) make your own parts... why?

Hold on there chief. That would require actual effort.

It might even flow as well as an OEM part at that point.

To the OP: This means that the OEM manifold is superior to the Godspeed manifold. Reading further into this statement, we find that replacing the OEM component for a Godspeed part is silly and illogical.

I know you're like "nah man no way"

But I'm like TOTALLY FUCKIN WAY MAN :trogdor: :trogdor: :trogdor: :trogdor:

[Shift n Drift]

I was talking to Chris Forsberg's mechanic/tuner the other year and he said he could tune a SR to make more HP with the OEM manifold than the Greddy because of the way the head was engineered to flow... By hearing that from him, i would just have the OEM manifold extrude honed then port matched and call it a day. Roughly 300-400 bux...

[GarageMaks14]

I was talking to Chris Forsberg's mechanic/tuner the other year and he said he could tune a SR to make more HP with the OEM manifold than the Greddy because of the way the head was engineered to flow... By hearing that from him, i would just have the OEM manifold extrude honed then port matched and call it a day. Roughly 300-400 bux...

too broke to buy a legit manifold post...so i'm gonna try to reason why I'm going cheap post

[tiggertsi]

While they're is always exceptions to the rule, in motorsport, the price usually reflects R&D and craftsmanship for a company over a sustained time. Besides we cant survive on their wages, but communism makes it easy for the chinese to do how they do. Jeremy Clarkson says it best.

yes R&D. research and development, two terms often interjected into the description of a product, especially in motorsports, by a companies marketing team or person with the goal of persuading a potential customer into actually consuming their product to increase their profit margins. more often than not with no actual evidence, at hand, that the consumer can see that would be conclusive proof that the actual product was researched and developed or tested against their competitors or oem. no dynos, no flow tests, no heat stress tests, or any such systematic testing for the consumer to see.

in the world of harley's i know of 2 such companies out of 100's that would actually even come close to providing such evidence. both companies are american and both companies are very small, one being a "mom and pop" operation with over 60 years in their particular field, and both companies have land speed record attempts and records with their efforts in motorsports. and both with pricing that is very competitive against the larger more well known name brand crap that most harley riders slap on or into their machines.

again i am not giving an opinion on this manifold, i do not know how it performs or its quality, so thus i wouldn't begin to say. opinions are fine but they are just that.

[tricky_ab]

Greddy "Designed" and "Engineered" their catch cans too. So i should buy those empty boxes of shit with the pretty logo that are not a true catch can because they designed, engineered, and made them.
I hope a bad casting in the ebay can doesnt blow the welds on the intake manifold.
:rolleyes:

Yes, because the two items that you're comparing are TOTALLY the same....


...Right?... I mean catch can...Intake manifold...

[waxball88]

Hold on their trickmeister, I'm trying to play the devils advocate here. It's just illogical that people can slam all parts based on brand name and say "well that's made by x company when y designed it so you should pay 10x the price for y" which I based the catch can off of. Just because it's made by a high end company doesn't mean it's better.
What difference does it make which part I buy if I have the mechanical know how to clean up and fix a mediocre weld/casting job? Sure you can bring up the design/flow stats I encourage it, show me a side by side flow bench of a Godspeed, a cleaned up Godspeed, and a real greddy. A little time with a dremel a little time with the tig. Shit the average joe would pay money for. Why can I not use tools I paid good money to possess to save money like was intended when they were purchased, does that make me a cheap ass?
It's an intake manifold not a piston or rod moving at 7-9000 rpm

[BossHogg]

The funny thing is I think greddy manis are shit to. People will buy what they want to buy. So let it rest.

[BossHogg]

Hold on their trickmeister, I'm trying to play the devils advocate here. It's just illogical that people can slam all parts based on brand name and say "well that's made by x company when y designed it so you should pay 10x the price for y" which I based the catch can off of. Just because it's made by a high end company doesn't mean it's better.
What difference does it make which part I buy if I have the mechanical know how to clean up and fix a mediocre weld/casting job? Sure you can bring up the design/flow stats I encourage it, show me a side by side flow bench of a Godspeed, a cleaned up Godspeed, and a real greddy. A little time with a dremel a little time with the tig. Shit the average joe would pay money for. Why can I not use tools I paid good money to possess to save money like was intended when they were purchased, does that make me a cheap ass?
It's an intake manifold not a piston or rod moving at 7-9000 rpm

If you had the tools and mechanical know how you would simply make your own. Not buy a shit part and "fix " it. Its just welding. You would realize you could make a better product yourself. If you have this "know how" you would of realized that.

[waxball88]

I anticipated that response. At the same time a cost vs time benefit may yield the 200dollar manifold a better buy it's not exactly cost effective to have all the flanges cut for a one off manifold. I'm not saying I'm an engineer. Anyone can slap weld some sheet metal together and have a piece of shit manifold with no egr, iacv, etc. that performs much worse than stock. So that would be a waste of materials. However if I did have a degree in that, access to a flow bench, etc. of course the best bet would be to make my own.

[thefro526]

I forgot how much these threads start to suck after the first 10-12 posts. Everyone is continuing to beat the crap out of a dead horse.

Godspeed/ISIS/CS/CXRacing/Some Name Brands all come from the same factories, series of factories in China. How do I know this? I deal with this kind of stuff all day at work. When something is sent to China for Manufacturing, the Manufacturer on that end takes the right to make as many copies of the design as they want for themselves - because of a Lack of IP/Copyright Laws/Enforcement of said laws between the two Countries.

As of late, much of what we've been getting in has had a relatively high (25-50%) rejection rate on the initial order - meaning that somewhere around 25-50 parts per 100 will have a defect that doesn't pass our QC process. Stuff like this is what sets the brands apart. I'm not going to lie and say that we don't get stuff from over there that's flawless, but I will say that for every flawless part there seems to be one that's complete crap. Some sellers will QC their shipments upon arrival, and weed out the bad parts, making their parts seem 'better' where others will not do this QC, it all depends on the company.

All in all, the OP asked if the manifold was good, or whatever, and yes, it will work just fine with a bit of tweaking, although if you're going to modify a manifold, you may as well modify the stock one, unless you're making enough power or moving enough air to justify a larger plenum. I've seen too many cars just arbitrarily switch from the stock manifold to a Greddy (Freddy) manifold and do more harm than good. If you can imagine, at sub 400hp (SR) levels, you're not really moving enough air for the stock plenum to be (that) much of a restriction. There have also been issues with the RB series motors and aftermarket intakes, namely that cylinder 5 and 6 will sometimes struggle to get the proper amount of air - which can be worsened by a questionable cast plenum, especially if it's got a lot of rough edges, uneven surfaces and other geometry that could cause turbulent or restricted air flow.

Regardless, it's your money and your car, chose the path that you feel is right based on the knowledge available to you. Just don't come back complaining if something isn't right.

[Drift_FX]

I anticipated that response. At the same time a cost vs time benefit may yield the 200dollar manifold a better buy it's not exactly cost effective to have all the flanges cut for a one off manifold. I'm not saying I'm an engineer. Anyone can slap weld some sheet metal together and have a piece of shit manifold with no egr, iacv, etc. that performs much worse than stock. So that would be a waste of materials. However if I did have a degree in that, access to a flow bench, etc. of course the best bet would be to make my own.

you can buy the flanges you need for cheap, and most of the others are just threaded fittings. you dont neew a flow bench to make a good intake manifold, you need just a little bit of research and some common sense. but if your too dumb and lazy to do that, know wonder you buy chineses parts...

[ixfxi]

Greddy "Designed" and "Engineered" their catch cans too. So i should buy those empty boxes of shit with the pretty logo that are not a true catch can because they designed, engineered, and made them.

up to you. i did. i've contemplated filling it with stainless steel mesh and creating a baffle, but to be honest it seems to be working good enough in the application i am using it for. i am not saying all of their designs are top notch, but it works.


I'm sick of the JDM-Brandwhores bitching about how "knock-offs" ruined the scene and are responsible for the deaths of millions of teenagers.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. People are going to do what they're going to do and buy what they're going to buy.

I wanted to keep with the stock manifold for a long time. In the end, I bought a current Greddy manifold. Not because it makes my car faster. Only one reason: I like how it looks. Thats it. What an idiot, right? haha seriously... I am a total idiot for doing that. My friend goes "yeah, it lightens your wallet... thats about all it does." He's right, but I just didnt care. When I drove my friends car that had the manifold (vs my car that didnt) I personally didnt notice a shits worth of a difference in power or response. If whatever loss of power is that negligeable, then fuckit... I'll use that manifold solely based on looks. I shelved my OE manifold & TB in case I ever need it again.

JDM or not, if it wasnt for these companies manufacturing these products - they wouldnt exist.

Another odd story, I own one of the old Greddy catch cans (rectangular) and I needed an extra one... but nowadays its discontinued. So for shits and giggles, I ordered a copy (gasp). The copy was total trash, so I gave it to a broke friend.

[waxball88]

you can buy the flanges you need for cheap, and most of the others are just threaded fittings. you dont neew a flow bench to make a good intake manifold, you need just a little bit of research and some common sense. but if your too dumb and lazy to do that, know wonder you buy chineses parts...

Excellent come back, brb going to get preparation H for my butthurt.

But to be honest I simply have my stock ka-manifold with egr, pcv things welded shut, I enjoy the simple things that work with little modification.

It comes down to what thefro said. Do what you want in regards to your money and knowledge. If you wanna build a shit box racer and use all eBay parts while turning as few wrenches as possible, then are mad you have to re-buy when it breaks, you probably won't be around long. But if you can take cheaper parts and modify them in your spare time understanding full well it may be a repetitive nuisance it's up to you where you set you cost/benefit at.

[Bushido]

When I drove my friends car that had the manifold (vs my car that didnt) I personally didnt notice a shits worth of a difference in power or response. If whatever loss of power is that negligeable, then fuckit... I'll use that manifold solely based on looks.


So you've actually driven your car? I thought its been under construction for 15 years, never finished because of your extreme anal retentiveness...:boink:

You actually bought a part because it looks cool? You're gettin soft in your old age man...

[Mikester]

Sweet- another endless, circular debate!

My thoughts:

There are 3 groups here:

1. Those with CFS (Cheap Fuck Syndrome)
2. Those with EFS (Elitist Fuck Syndrome)
3. Those somewhere in between who try to balance quality vs. cost

We all know who we are- no need to point these things out just to be a dick to someone who wants to join this thread. We ARE adults, yea?

If you know, or know of me; you will know that I believe some things are absolutely worth paying the big bucks for (my build thread (http://zilvia.net/f/builds-builds-only/487845-mikesters-fun-mobile.html)). Others... not so much.

While I FIRMLY BELIEVE that OEM Nissan is hands-down the best choice for every last bearing, bushing, seal and/or gasket between the oil pan & valve cover, I cannot say with the same surety that there are leaps and bounds worth of difference between brand name NON-MOVING parts and their cheaper, knockoff counterparts. Either way, if the cheap shit fails a year or two down the road, you got your money's worth!

Going back to Godspeed intake manis- Let's look at this semi-objectively for a minute.

- Pretty simple casting on both GReddy and knockoffs
- GReddy is $900 vs. knockoff is $150(ish)
- GReddy gives superb quality & fitment, knockoff gives less overall quality and 'cool points' but fitment is satifactory to good.
- Both require the same few minor supporting mods to adapt

^^There are probably other factors to consider... but just trying to keep it simple. Bottom line is that if you have $900 to spend on a GReddy intake, then great. If you don't, then there is a cheaper alternative. It's a choice.

OP:

Anyone have experience with these? Im looking to get one for my S13 SR20DET. What is the casting quality like?

I run a knockoff Ebay intake that I got for free. The casting quality is fine... DEFINITELY not as good as a GReddy... but fine overall. All of the mating surfaces; and more importantly the injector ports are excellent (at least on MY particular knockoff lol) and required no additional attention or machining. Mine:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/6991227646_275fc7f862_b_d.jpg

How was the install overall?

It bolted right up and mated up absolutely FINE with OEM Nissan intake, AAC valve & TB gaskets. Here it is polished up & installed on my 'somewhere in between' fully built motor:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2876/9123633214_5f638a6ccb_c_d.jpg

Should I just spend a few more bucks and get a less crappy ISIS?

Dude- that's sort of like deciding between a shit sundae and a diarrhea delight if you know what I mean. If you're going to go cheap, just go cheap and don't look back ;)

I'm aware that these knockoff manifolds sometimes require the casting and threads be cleaned up. Thanks!

edit: I would most likely have the throttle body, cylinder head and possibly IACV flanges planed at a machine shop.

Again, this is not necessarily true. The casting quality on the ones I've seen is generally not THAT bad to where it will need it. Just use OEM NISSAN GASKETS, the proper FSM torque order/specs and you'll be golden.

I WILL say however, that although a GReddy or knockoff manifold is an 'upgrade'... it is NOT necessary unless you are building for 450 or more ponies. If you are not, then all you will really be doing for yourself is strapping on a shiny part and having to do some minor shopping & modding... only to end up with more turbo lag accompanied by negligible at best power gains.

If you are dead-set on doing it, PM me and I will tell you everything you need to know, provide you pictures and a shopping list.

In closing, a GReddy, Jun or Mazworx mani is on my personal long-term to-do list... but I got the FReddy for free from a great friend from my Okinawa days; so I wanted to incorporate it into the build. As far as the brand name stuff, I firmly believe in supporting them by paying the higher prices because with the brand names, you get very high quality; and you are financing their future to continue to research, develop and innovate to our benefit as enthusiasts. But on the flip side, the cheap copies made by the companies who stand on the shoulders of these giants are good in the sense that they provide an affordable means for the young folks to pay to play. Just like parts choices... It's a balance.

--Mike

[acslater9]

Is the 240sx "community" REALLY degrading to the point where we try to differentiate which one is better between two pieces of shit???

Godspeed=ISIS=Megan=ANY other bottom line knockoff shit... Not one is any better than the other.

So basically you're saying anything with ISIS is crap? So these ISIS hub conversions are crap to you?

Nissan 240sx - Hub Conversions - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC (http://www.enjukuracing.com/categories/Nissan-240sx/Hub-Conversions/)

[Mikester]

So basically you're saying anything with ISIS is crap? So these ISIS hub conversions are crap to you?

Nissan 240sx - Hub Conversions - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC (http://www.enjukuracing.com/categories/Nissan-240sx/Hub-Conversions/)

There is probably already an ISIS 5-lug hubs thread

:wavey:

[mechanicalmoron]

Facts don't need to be substantiated; that's a fact.

You have a very poor grasp on the definition of "fact".

It's not something that simply IS with no substantiation, it's something that is, BECAUSE of substantiation.

[vehicle336]

I'm not going to cover what's already been covered regarding knock-off parts, but for what it's worth the car I recently picked up had an Isis one already installed. Here's my experience with it:

Putting the intake manifold gasket up to it you'll notice a good 1-2mm of exposed metal in spots while the gasket itself actually covers open space by a small fraction in other spots - which directly negates any bonus you may actually gain by having this intake on the car in the first place. In addition, there are casting marks that actually stick up into the runner space right where the manifold meets the head, again impeding flow. Inside the walls are hardly smooth at all and come complete with casting marks.

How do I know all this? Realizing too late after buying the car that the fuel rail was fucking ziptied (yes, ziptied) to the manifold, I decided to take the thing off and try to install the fuel rail correctly. Which brings me to my second point, you'll have to modify the stock fuel rail in order for it to fit right. How heavily depends on how well the bolt holes line up to begin with.

On to my third point. You have to have the right intake piping in order for it to fit. Now I've thought about changing it out for the stock one, which I'm sure hands down is better simply because it fits, but currently my piping is actually meant to fit with this intake. At least the old owner didn't do everything the janky Zilvian way...

Either you can pay 200 bucks for a poorly-made part that needs machine work for it to function to it's fullest (which even then has absolutely no empirical evidence that it adds any performance), requires you to modify your fuel rail and change your intake piping, or you can just keep the stock one on there and save your money for something that doesn't suck shit. Though it does look cool I guess. Your call.

[BossHogg]

Shit sundae and diarrhea delight takes the thread.

Great post mikester.

Lets lock it up.

[GroundPerformance]

While they're is always exceptions to the rule, in motorsport, the price usually reflects R&D and craftsmanship for a company over a sustained time. Besides we cant survive on their wages, but communism makes it easy for the chinese to do how they do. Jeremy Clarkson says it best.

I'm sure the Chinese companies who makes this parts does what they do best in R&D.

" Receive & Duplicate " or " Replicate & Distribute "

Who knows.. They might be doing the same shit on GI Joe movie. Clone a person as Proxies..

[Mikester]

Putting the intake manifold gasket up to it you'll notice a good 1-2mm of exposed metal in spots while the gasket itself actually covers open space by a small fraction in other spots - which directly negates any bonus you may actually gain by having this intake on the car in the first place. In addition, there are casting marks that actually stick up into the runner space right where the manifold meets the head, again impeding flow. Inside the walls are hardly smooth at all and come complete with casting marks.

How do I know all this? Realizing too late after buying the car that the fuel rail was fucking ziptied (yes, ziptied) to the manifold, I decided to take the thing off and try to install the fuel rail correctly. Which brings me to my second point, you'll have to modify the stock fuel rail in order for it to fit right. How heavily depends on how well the bolt holes line up to begin with.

On to my third point. You have to have the right intake piping in order for it to fit. Now I've thought about changing it out for the stock one, which I'm sure hands down is better simply because it fits, but currently my piping is actually meant to fit with this intake. At least the old owner didn't do everything the janky Zilvian way...

Either you can pay 200 bucks for a poorly-made part that needs machine work for it to function to it's fullest (which even then has absolutely no empirical evidence that it adds any performance), requires you to modify your fuel rail and change your intake piping, or you can just keep the stock one on there and save your money for something that doesn't suck shit. Though it does look cool I guess. Your call.

All good, valid points sir...

I am going to make a few couterpoints here. Not to argue, just to throw out a semi-different point of view.

1. Even in the absence of GReddy's superior quality, you can still get the same effect (minus the badge) for far less money... which is what I did: S13 SR20DET Intake Manifold, Greddy? Or ISIS Easy choice? I think not : 240sx General Discussion (http://forums.nicoclub.com/s13-sr20det-intake-manifold-greddy-or-isis-easy-choice-i-think-not-t437390.html)

2. To make the fuel rail work, you only need to ebb out one of the holes on the rail bracket a bit (The front one IIRC); but the injectors line up perfectly. Forgot about that till ^^HE^^ mentioned it; but easy peasy <5min fix.

3. Casting marks inside the runners: Sure, they impede flow. But I would say it's a safe bet that a kid torn between Godspeed & ISIS manifolds probably is not at the level where any impedance of airflow is going to cost him that .001sec between winning & losing a race against another sub-10sec car ;) Flow is only part of the equation. Volume is what's important... the average T25 or T28 is only going to flow 'so much volume' no matter how smooth or rough the inside of an already 'too big' intake manifold is... If anything, I wonder performance gains may actually be negative in the low/mid range where the T25/T28 are in their efficiency range.

4. Although I agree that the stock intake manifold is best suited to a <400hp SR, I do however assert that one thing the GReddy/FReddy intakes afford is maintenance-friendliness. For the added $60 of an ISIS (or $180 GReddy- do the math) cold pipe, you get access to the AAC valve & knock sensor (nearly impossible to change with OEM IM) as well as all the under-intake coolant lines that can't be reached without the IM removed. Also, with this (http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ONLINESTORE.html?cid=52&step=4&pid=334) , a $40 S14 throttle pulley is not needed for the swap...

Add the price for the cold pipe, throttle cable bracket & other nickels/dimes it takes to make a knockoff manifold effective... then compare the same with the GReddy... Still far more cost-effective and when properly done, looks cool and does not suck shit. The empirical evidence is in the physics. You can only increase flow 'so much' until greater volume is needed in order to increase it any further. Increase the volume (add big GReddy/FReddy manifold), you can once again increase flow :)

[tiggertsi]

For the added $60 of an ISIS (or $180 GReddy- do the math) cold pipe, you get access to the AAC valve & knock sensor (nearly impossible to change with OEM IM) as well as all the under-intake coolant lines that can't be reached without the IM removed.

after getting my first 240 this year this is the thing that pissed me off the most about the engine bay, not having access to those very things. i'd love to have an IM that gave me access.

also good post. wish i could see more informative posts on here instead of the elementary "you got buddy shoes and i got nikes" mentality.

[jamg]

ebay is a MARKETPLACE.

so stop calling ebay parts, "ebay parts" because they have absolutely nothing to do with the production process.

sellers on ebay merely advertise their item, and they charge a fee for the millions of users that use it everyday.

china will make you good items. it all depends on how deep your pockets are.

people like godspeed, ISIS, cx racing pay more $ per item, for a lower number of faulty and "better" quality products.. that's why their stuff is marked up, for the same crap.

[Mikester]

ebay is a MARKETPLACE.

so stop calling ebay parts, "ebay parts" because they have absolutely nothing to do with the production process.

sellers on ebay merely advertise their item, and they charge a fee for the millions of users that use it everyday.


http://www.zeroyon.com/public/style_emoticons/default/captainobvious.jpg

[racepar1]

Facts don't need to be substantiated; that's a fact.

You don't post facts. You post ignorant, opinionated, tasteless, bullshit mostly in argumentative or sarcastic form. You have no facts or experience to draw from, it's all heresay and bullshit in your posts. I think you do it on purpose just to rattle people's cages.

[Corbic]

You don't post facts. You post ignorant, opinionated, tasteless, bullshit mostly in argumentative or sarcastic form. You have no facts or experience to draw from, it's all heresay and bullshit in your posts. I think you do it on purpose just to rattle people's cages.

I love you tooooo :p

[racepar1]

I love you tooooo :p

HAHA!

Glad to see you don't take all this bullshit too seriously as well!

:D

[vehicle336]

4. Also, with this (http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ONLINESTORE.html?cid=52&step=4&pid=334) , a $40 S14 throttle pulley is not needed for the swap...


I need this. Do you have any pictures of what it looks like installed?

[EsChassisLove]

Lol this thread.

I've had my Godspeed intake on ever since I was at 307whp on a 2871.

Now I'm at 710whp and a 66mm turbo.

Hate my parts, you'll hate my tail lights too when that's all you hard parking bitches see.





Trolllllllololol.

[Mikester]

I need this. Do you have any pictures of what it looks like installed?

Look at the pic I posted dude.

[ixfxi]

So you've actually driven your car? I thought its been under construction for 15 years, never finished because of your extreme anal retentiveness...:boink:
You actually bought a part because it looks cool? You're gettin soft in your old age man...

haha you're absolutely right. shit is sitting in the same garage, and its back floating on jackstands... AGAIN. but look at the bright side, this year i got the rear-end installed, axles and all. I even managed to bend and make new fuel/brake lines.... for this piece of shit collector-car, right? Seriously, this project should have been over -15 years ago (thats negative fifteen).. but like an idiot, i continue to faithfully plow-ahead blindly for a project that wont be worth a plugged nickel


I love you tooooo :p
Glad to see you don't take all this bullshit too seriously as well!
:D

Fuck.

You really know its bad when we talk shit to eachother and dont even care about getting heated and argumentative anymore. Either we're getting old or we're getting WAY to used to each others bullshit! ha


ps: you guys want to hear something funny? all this shit talking about knockoff stuff and i have to come clean, a few years back i bought a replica Tomei oil outlet block... cant remember who makes it (stance?), but Omikron sold it to me for dirt cheap. I'm sorry guys. I just dont want you all to look at me like a hypocrite, even though I am. oh, i did change the bolts as that secure it to the block - the bolts included were totally improper.

:(

tear....

[waxball88]

Ixfxi Almost brought a tear to my eye.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/107/432/i_hug_that_feel.png
Thanks for all that contributed. Big win for all zilvians today

[vehicle336]

Look at the pic I posted dude.

No, I mean with the actual cable installed. I have a ziptied fuel rail from the last fucktard owner so I'm sure I'm missing shit for the throttle cable. I'm pretty sure the wrong nuts are also on there. Hopefully I can rule out what I need if there's a pic of everything put together, Xcessive's site just has it mounted on an intake. If you don't, no worries I'll figure something out or buy a new setup.

[Mikester]

No, I mean with the actual cable installed. I have a ziptied fuel rail from the last fucktard owner so I'm sure I'm missing shit for the throttle cable. I'm pretty sure the wrong nuts are also on there. Hopefully I can rule out what I need if there's a pic of everything put together, Xcessive's site just has it mounted on an intake. If you don't, no worries I'll figure something out or buy a new setup.

Dude, I was referring to the pic I posted of my engine bay- The bracket and cable are installed in it... However, this will probably be a bit more helpful:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/8720548742_9b476a2d99_o_d.jpg

The bracket is about as simple as it gets... 20 bucks well-spent.

[ixfxi]

Ixfxi Almost brought a tear to my eye.

tyrone says: no homo dawg...
buk lao says: like some booooooo deeeeee


Lol this thread.
I've had my Godspeed intake on ever since I was at 307whp on a 2871.
Now I'm at 710whp and a 66mm turbo.

your car makes 710 whp?!?!?!?!?!

"YES. my car makes 710 WHP from 7000rpm to 8000rpm, its incredible"


uhm....... who the fuck cares? i know i never asked.

[vehicle336]

Dude, I was referring to the pic I posted of my engine bay- The bracket and cable are installed in it... However, this will probably be a bit more helpful:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/8720548742_9b476a2d99_o_d.jpg

The bracket is about as simple as it gets... 20 bucks well-spent.

Tyvm sir. Ordered.

[racepar1]

Lol this thread.

I've had my Godspeed intake on ever since I was at 307whp on a 2871.

Now I'm at 710whp and a 66mm turbo.

Hate my parts, you'll hate my tail lights too when that's all you hard parking bitches see.





Trolllllllololol.

WOW, you're SUPER FUCKING AWESOME DUDE!!!

You're my hero, I want to be like you when I grow into my big-boy pants...

:picardfp:

It is saddening how proud you are that you managed to make a shitload of HP with a knockoff intake. I mean if you want to state it as a fact about how they can perform when setup properly that's fine. You're just so damned smug and proud of it though, It's pathetic really...

[EsChassisLove]

Lol got you good fuckers I don't have a Godspeed plenum haha

[EsChassisLove]

But the truth is, I still make more power, more reliably than anyone else in this thread, with an ISIS manifold.
True story.

It is amusing the butthurt you guys got when I threw out some high numbers. Talk about jelly hard parkers. Sorry you can't make power....no reason to go off on someone who does though.

[racepar1]

But the truth is, I still make more power, more reliably than anyone else in this thread, with an ISIS manifold.
True story.

It is amusing the butthurt you guys got when I threw out some high numbers. Talk about jelly hard parkers. Sorry you can't make power....no reason to go off on someone who does though.


You didn't actually bother to read AND COMPREHEND my post did you???

It isn't about how much power you make. It's about how damned proud and smug you are about:

1: the fact that you made a bunch of power (apparently the number was a lie because you're just trolling like a douchebag)
2: the fact that you did it with a knockoff intake mani

It's about your attitude, not necessarily what you said factually. I'm well aware that an intake manifold is ONLY a basic casting. There is no reason that a knockoff cannot perform equally to an original Greddy. It may take a little extra work, likely just cleaning up the casting on the inside of the mani, but it can work just as good. If I was looking for an intake mani for an SR the brand of the mani wouldn't be that important to me either. BUT I wouldn't be so smug about it. I would state it as facts, like Mikester did in his posts. It's really nothing to brag about and there IS something to be said for buying the ORIGINAL part rather than a knockoff. There IS something to be said for remaining loyal to the companies that are pioneering these parts for the lowly knockoff artists to copy and undercut them on price.

[EsChassisLove]

Here's a great fact, and extrude honed ISIS runs roughly $650. Smoooooooth like butter after that.

A GReddy still costs close to $900 and is rough on the inside. Pick your poison.

That fun fact should end this thread haha

But Godspeed? Nah don't buy that shit. I draw a line in the sand for my shit parts lmao

[Mikester]

It is amusing the butthurt you guys got when I threw out some high numbers. Talk about jelly hard parkers. Sorry you can't make power....no reason to go off on someone who does though.

:duh:

Dude, please tell us your not serious. I assure you- although we definitely give you props for pulling 700 out of an SR [relatively] reliably; nobody is butthurt or jealous... and of course, some of us ARE hard-parked ;)

Pretty sure it was the previous comment that maybe could have been worded more tactfully... Like this:

Lol at this thread!
My setup makes 710whp with a fully honed, extruded ISIS manifold that ran me $650 all said and done. No need to spend $900 on a GReddy!



But Godspeed? Nah don't buy that shit. I draw a line in the sand for my shit parts lmao

^^Each to their own... Knockoff is a knockoff is a knockoff... All the same stuff.

[racepar1]

^^Each to their own... Knockoff is a knockoff is a knockoff... All the same stuff.

:werd:

Trying to differentiate in quality between knockoff brands is like trying to pick out the skeezy crack whore that is LEAST likely to give you aids.

ISIS is just as crappy as any other knockoff. Anybody ever held a set of ISIS arms in their own two hands? The rod ends look to be OK, maybe even better than some other knockoffs, but the brackets are all welded like shit and not squared up properly. At least Godspeed/Megan arms are STRAIGHT...

You can't differentiate in quality between those companies as a whole. You CAN pick and choose individual parts that are better or worse in one way or another, but as a whole the quality is equal...

[Corbic]

:werd:

Trying to differentiate in quality between knockoff brands is like trying to pick out the skeezy crack whore that is LEAST likely to give you aids.



So is it just pointless to differentiate between name brands?

[racepar1]

So is it just pointless to differentiate between name brands?

For the most part, yes it is. Each company has their strengths and weaknesses. It's all about the individual part that you are buying. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to learn about which company's parts are better for what other than EXPERIENCE. You have to have held both parts in your hands and compare them. Hell, there are certainly at least a couple knockoff parts that are "better" than their higher priced name brand counterparts. The problem is that you need a crapload of experience to differentiate between them. You can't learn about it in a book, forum, google, magazine, etc...

[derass]

benefit of buying a ISIS part is you are typically buying them from Enjuku, pay the extra 25% for an ISIS part over the eBay one because it should be to "isis spec" and if it's not, Enjuku will make it right.
This has got me leaning towards the ISIS

Chris Forsberg's mechanic/tuner said he could tune a SR to make more HP with the OEM manifold than the Greddy
Not likely, just look at anyone making around 400 WHP with the GT2871R, they are all using a Greddy (style) manifold.

Those somewhere in between who try to balance quality vs. cost

some things are absolutely worth paying the big bucks for, others... not so much.

Exactly, it's not about being cheap, it's about doing what is cost effective and making your money count. I track my car every other weekend and do what I can to make that happen with my given budget. I have spent good money on the parts that matter; Garrett GT2871R, KAAZ 2-Way, Haltech PS1000. Just spent $900 on tires that will last me the final 3 events of this season. On the other hand, I refuse to buy aero, even cheap knockoff stuff, because I know it will get destroyed and will ultimately be a waste of money. Maybe I could have skipped an event or two this season to buy the genuine manifold, but where's the fun in that?

I have seen your input on the manifold elsewhere on this forum and thought your install was this thread: http://zilvia.net/f/chat/221165-new-isis-intake-manifold-review.html
Thank you for your post here!

I would say it's a safe bet that a kid torn between Godspeed & ISIS manifolds probably is not at the level where any impedance of airflow is going to cost him that .001sec between winning & losing a race against another sub-10sec car
I dont know if this was directed towards me, but I am certainly no kid. You're right, that I am not aiming for 500+ HP, where an imperfectly atomized A/F mixture might be cause for concern, but I do comepete in my local drift series and big HP makes for lots of speed and smoke which the crowd loves!

But the truth is, I still make more power, more reliably than anyone else in this thread, with an ISIS manifold.
Good to hear it works well for you, more positive feedback for the ISIS.

I'm well aware that an intake manifold is ONLY a basic casting. There is no reason that a knockoff cannot perform equally to an original Greddy. It may take a little extra work, likely just cleaning up the casting on the inside of the mani, but it can work just as good.

I'm glad to see that you seem to be a little more open minded to the idea of a cost effective option.

[Bushido]

y'all convinced me to make my own manifold!

http://blog.modernperformance.com/highqualityturbomanifold2.jpg cool!!!!!!!

still working on the exhaust side:

http://blog.modernperformance.com/highqualityturbomanifold.jpg

secret prototype diagram for the next version:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18s0sah52e9lojpg/k-medium.jpg

[EsChassisLove]

My isis isn't extrude honed. I would if I wasn't going VVL.

But for real, just trolling haha. I only make 500+HP. Not 700+.

I honestly didn't even know Godspeed made intake manis until this threa lmao

[EsChassisLove]

I will let you know how my isis does when I push 40psi through it. That will be the determining factor of its strength/reliability

Thankfully it's cast. So I do not have to worry about blowing the welds on the intake.

[Bushido]

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu360/RAImotorsport/WARNING.jpg

[ultimateforce]

Ah yes, a the Fast and the Furious joke.

[Mikester]

I am not a big fan of ISIS nor Enjuku. My problem with Enjuku is their prices; but their service is definitely awesome.

Wasn't assuming you are actually a 'kid'... just happened to bew the word I chose in that post... However, unless you are in your 40's, you're technically still a kid to me ;)

As for the brand names.... Experience is definitely key. Even with top-quality parts, there is a learning curve in figuring out which parts play nice together and which do not. They key is to find a combination/balance that works for you and stick to it.