Government Sequestration

[stevenrapids]

Alright, so I am making this thread to basically discuss the topic of government sequestration. Whether you are effected by it, family members or friends are, or you just want to chime in. So I am a college student and work for the government as a civilian. With the effects of sequestration and tax increases for the majority of my summer i am making no where near as much as i should be, and quite a bit less than last year. Over the span of a year i bring home about a third less than i did last year. Seeing as I live at home while I attend college, I am not effected quite as much as some others in a different situation than myself. Just thought this would be a good topic to discuss and see if anybody is upset like myself.

[niscur29]

200% affected by it. Both my wife and I are engineers for the Navy in Orlando. Both civil servants. Both of us lost 20% of our pay. The shitty thing about it is the Navy and Air Force said they could weather sequester and spare our jobs. SECDEF decided it would be best to "spread the love" and make all of us take a hit. From what we have been told Army couldn't foot the bills. Both my wife and I are funded via working capital funds which are funds paid by customers not by Congress etc. Our programs have informed us that we have more than enough funds to avoid anyone being furloughed and can hire plenty of people.

Its sucks plain and simple. I actually love having Fridays off but the hit to our bank account sucks. We still have our jobs which is good, and we weren't impacted to the point of not being able to make ends meet. So while we aren't as bad off as the single peeps, single mothers, college interns, low GS payscalers etc losing 40% total of your household monthly income BLOWS! We did however start planning for it by cutting most of our frivolous spending starting in May, 240sx funds excluded of course. Had we still been up in MD out at PAX we would have been hurting severely.

[stevenrapids]

Ya having Fridays off isn't too bad at all. It just grinds my gears the amount of money that is thrown away on dumb shit and they cut shit that probably shouldn't be cut. All in all, it's nice that there weren't a lot of lay offs. Another part that pissed me off, is I return to school in August, and even though I am cutting my hours to go to school, they are requiring me to furlough 20% of my already scaled-back work schedule. That's just crazy.

[Phlip]

losing 40% total of your household monthly income

Percentages don't quite work like that. When TWO people each lose 20% of their income, they collectively have not lost 40%.
I am not disagreeing with the rest of your post, I am just picking nits.

[word sux]

Percentages don't quite work like that. When TWO people each lose 20% of their income, they collectively have not lost 40%.
I am not disagreeing with the rest of your post, I am just picking nits.


I hope your not engineering boats...


I might have to start buying stock in life jackets!

[Phlip]

I hope your not engineering boats...


I might have to start buying stock in life jackets!

To apply round numbers... He makes $40k and she makes $30k (not real numbers, just examples)

If EACH loses 20%, he loses $8k and she loses $6k.
Combined, they WERE at $70k, and if they HAD lost 40%, they would have lost $28k, not the above-counted 14. Now, losing $14,000 bucks a year sucks and I might sell drugs to make the difference personally, but I stand by my statement his - and now YOUR - grasp of percentages is kinda screwed. Simple mathematics is actually just that easy.
Also, simple English is pretty easy too, so you miffed the "you're" in your sentence above as well.
Go back to sleep now.

[Corbic]

My industry was heavily impacted. However no sympathy.

Government Employees are far over paid, over compensated and to numerous. Few know the true suffrage of work. To bad our political system is quickly becoming a Banana Republic with a "give the people what they want for votes" mentality.

We could honestly fire half of all the federal employees and in a years time life would be back to normal. Industry has been forced to constantly adapted and get better - the Government solution has always been "hire more people, increase the budget".

[word sux]

To apply round numbers... He makes $40k and she makes $30k (not real numbers, just examples)

If EACH loses 20%, he loses $8k and she loses $6k.
Combined, they WERE at $70k, and if they HAD lost 40%, they would have lost $28k, not the above-counted 14. Now, losing $14,000 bucks a year sucks and I might sell drugs to make the difference personally, but I stand by my statement his - and now YOUR - grasp of percentages is kinda screwed. Simple mathematics is actually just that easy.
Also, simple English is pretty easy too, so you miffed the "you're" in your sentence above as well.
Go back to sleep now.



YOU'RE correct, I was agreeing with you.


He said he was an engineer for the navy. Hence, the boat joke...

[crash n' burn]

sucks for me. base hospital has awkward hours now, and the commissary is closed 2 days out of the week. not to mention, the mechanics that keep our equipment up and running are no long able to retain shelf stock. so, if something as simple as a fucking headlight blows on my truck, i have to wait a week or more for it to be ordered, approved for purchase, shipped, received, signed for, etc etc..you can guess the process. the entire time, i'm either having to deadline my truck and having to have it signed off to drive, or we're pulling parts off other trucks, therefore dead lining them. my equipment is a brigade asset; its the only one. without it, no one can make calls, have internet, you name it; turns into a big fucking headache if something happens. god forbid a major component goes out and we don't have a spare.

there's plenty of other things going on like construction being halted until they can figure out whats going to happen with rearranging BCTs and shifting around personnel, or having to surcharge commissary customer's to fund the new..desperately needed one(JRTC spent the allocated money elsewhere a few years ago i was told). but having mission capable equipment is the biggest problem for me. in my field..its just simply not an option. its another thing to add to the daily grind.

[stevenrapids]

My industry was heavily impacted. However no sympathy.

Government Employees are far over paid, over compensated and to numerous. Few know the true suffrage of work. To bad our political system is quickly becoming a Banana Republic with a "give the people what they want for votes" mentality.

We could honestly fire half of all the federal employees and in a years time life would be back to normal. Industry has been forced to constantly adapted and get better - the Government solution has always been "hire more people, increase the budget".

as far as "too many" people being employed by the government i cannot disagree with you. But, with that being said, i would rather have people "working" for the government and making their living than collecting unemployment and so forth. Atleast they are working. Our whole nation is so ass backwards when it comes to our economy.

As far as what crash n' burn said he is right. With the furlough effecting different areas and divisions, they are not saving any money. Jobs that should take 2 days are essentially taking 4-5 because different people are not in the office due to furlough. So with all the checks and balance systems we have, shit takes more time to get done. I just see this as more of a detriment when it comes to certain fields in are DOD and R&D areas. Just seems to counter all the decisions when it comes to cutting work days.

So in conclusion, I think cutting work hours is not the right way to go about reducing our fiscal budget. Personally i think they could save way more money restructuring the operations. for instance, I work in building management in a student program and I see on a daily basis where simple jobs are called in to outside contractors that I could do with simple research and my skills. WHY? It seems as if we spend taxpayers money on simple shit.

[yetijeff]

I work in the aircraft industry. Mostly military aircraft parts. They laid off about 25% of the people I worked with. Although it didn't affect me personally as far as financially (I actually got a raise), I DEFINITELY affect everyone who lost there jobs. Some of them were hard working and had like 30+ years, while others I would consider to be "trimming the fat." It's really irritating how much dumb shit our government spends money on, and then passes the bill to everyone who actually works for there money instead of "getting" money.

[niscur29]

I'm not going to disagree with the over staffing of government employees or more importantly the hiring of additional contractors at inflated rates. But please don't state we true DoD civil servants are overpaid. No raises in the three years I have been here with the cost of living going up. In the private sector we would be earning at least 10k more a year with a few % increase annually as well as bonuses. I'm sure there are a few fields within the gov that are overpaid but science/technical is not one of them. The private sector isn't hiring and the benefits suck vs gov etc.


Percentages don't quite work like that. When TWO people each lose 20% of their income, they collectively have not lost 40%.
I am not disagreeing with the rest of your post, I am just picking nits.

We are both the same pay grade and step. But you are correct that's it's not 40%. Both our paychecks lost within a few dollars of each other about the same. She has the insurance was about the only difference.

[AFSil80]

Abolish the IRS and congressional wages/pensions, and lobbyists and this won't be a problem. All those greedy politicians drinking up our money. Get rid of the money, you get rid of the corruption.

Entitlement reform has to happen. Get people off the sickly tit of the .gov, and they will find their own way to overcome. People are resilient, and will survive if they have to. If all govt social programs ended, I don't think that Social Darwinism would take place.

Proof:

This is What Budget Cuts Have Done to Detroit ... And It's Freaking Awesome (http://www.policymic.com/articles/44725/this-is-what-budget-cuts-have-done-to-detroit-and-it-s-freaking-awesome)



The language of budget cuts, austerity, and sequestration seem to dominate the media's landscape these days, instilling fear into Americans of vital government services being cut and chaos ensuing if governments aren't allowed to spend and borrow infinitely. Conservatives decry supposed cuts to the military-industrial-complex, and liberals bemoan that without government welfare transfer programs, there would be social Darwinism. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) even blamed the Benghazi scandal on — wait for it — budget cuts and the sequester.

Leaving aside the details on whether the U.S. budget is actually shrinking, one needs to look no further than the city of Detroit to find the spontaneous order, civic cooperation, and peaceful market forces that take over when government simply isn't around.

Detroit is absolutely bankrupt. The city faces a cash shortfall of more than $100 million by June 30. Long-term liabilities, including pensions, exceed $14 billion. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder wants to bail out Detroit's city government even further. Thanks to the financial situation of Detroit, emergency services like police and fire departments are being severely cut short. 911 is only taking calls during business hours. Homes have been abandoned making parts of the city look like a ghost town.

If our public servants are right and wouldn't dare lie and try to scare us, then chaos, anarchy and lawlessness should reign in Detroit now, right? Well, not exactly.

Dale Brown and his organization, the Threat Management Center (TMC), have helped fill in the void left by the corrupt and incompetent city government. Brown started TMC in 1995 as a way to help his fellow Detroit citizens in the midst of a rise in home invasions and murders. While attempting to assist law enforcement, he found little but uninterested officers more concerned with extracting revenue through traffic tickets and terrorizing private homes with SWAT raids than protecting person and property.

In an interview with Copblock.org, Brown explains how and why his private, free market policing organization has been so successful. The key to effective protection and security is love, says Brown, not weapons, violence, or law. It sounds a bit corny, yes, but the results speak for themselves.

Almost 20 years later and Detroit's financial mess even more apparent, TMC now has a client base of about 1,000 private residences and over 500 businesses. Thanks to TMC's efficiency and profitability, they are also able to provide free or incredibly low-cost services to the poor as well.

The reasons TMC has been so successful is because they take the complete opposite approach that government agencies, in this case law enforcement, do. Brown's philosophy is that he would rather hire people who see violence as a last resort, and the handful of Detroit police officers who actually worked with Brown in the earlier years and have an interest in genuine protection now work for TMC. While governments threaten their citizens with compulsion, fines, and jail if they don't hand over their money, TMC's funding is voluntary and subject to the profit-loss test; if Brown doesn't provide the services his customers want, he goes out of business.

This means that Brown is not interested in no-knock para-military SWAT raids, "officer safety" as the highest priority, bloated union pensions, or harassing people for what they have in their bloodstream. TMC works with its customers on the prevention of crime as well rather than showing up after the fact to take notes like historians.

The heroic Brown and TMC are a great example of how the market and civil society can and do provide services traditionally associated with the state far better, cheaper and more in tune to people's wants and needs. I have always believed policing, protection and security are far too important to be run by the state — especially in age of militarized Stormtroopers — and Brown is helping show why.

Law enforcement isn't the only "essential government service" that the private sector is taking over and flourishing in. The Detroit Bus Company (DBC) is a private bus service that began last year and truly shows a stark contrast in how the market and government operates. Founded by 25-year-old Andy Didorosi, the company avoids the traditionally stuffy, cagey government buses and uses beautiful vehicles with graffiti-laden exterior designs that match the heart of the Motor City. There are no standard bus routes; a live-tracking app, a call or a text is all you need to get picked up in one of their buses run on soy-based biofuel. All the buses feature wi-fi, music, and you can even drink your own alcohol on board! The payment system is, of course, far cheaper and fairer.

Comparing this company's bus service to say, my local San Francisco MUNI transit experience, is like comparing the services of local, free-range, organic farms in the Bay Area to the Soviet bread lines.

Not surprisingly, the city government, which has no time to protect its citizens, does manage to find the time to harass peaceful citizens in this spontaneous, market order. Charles Molnar and a couple of other students from the Detroit Enterprise Academy wanted to help make benches for the city's bus stops, where long-waits are the norm, equipped with bookshelves to hold reading material.

Detroit Department of Transportation officials quickly said the bench was "unapproved" and had it taken down. Silly citizens, don't you know only governments can provide these services?

The TMC and the DBC are just two of the larger, more visible examples of the market and voluntary human cooperation reigning in Detroit. "Food rebels," running local community gardens, are an alternative to Big Agriculture and government-subsidized factory farms. Private parking garages are popping up. Detroit residents are using Lockean homesteading principles to repurpose land amongst the rubble of the Fed-induced housing bubble. Community events like Biergartens and large, civic dining gatherings (with no permits or licenses!) are being organized privately. Even Detroit's artists are beginning to reflect this anarchic, peaceful movement in their artwork.

Detroit's city government may be in shambles financially, but the citizens of Detroit are showing what happens when people are given their liberty back. For centuries, libertarians have been arguing for strict limits on state power, the benefits of private, civic society, and the bottom-up, spontaneous order that arises where free markets and voluntary interactions dominate. Perhaps we shouldn't be so scared and sicken with political Stockholm Syndrome the next time politicos fear-monger over budgets cuts.

[Drift_FX]

well i cant get a job in the FAA as an air traffic controller (im very qulified)because with cuts the have stopped hiring, but thats fine because now i work at a brewery...

when life throws me lemons, i make double IPA's with lemon verbana... :)

[AFSil80]

Which brewery do you work for, if you don't mind my asking?

[Mikester]

Hiring too many civilians, both DoD, contractors & otherwise is only a small facet of the overarching issue(s). The travesty here is that the gov't civilians are ones bearing the brunt of the consequences of shitty decisions at the highest levels of government.

Here's what almost 21yrs of military service has shown me:

When military spending got severely cut, it was no secret that we, the military men & women would not be able to meet our respective taskings due to drastically reduced funding and manpower... The solution? Simple- hire civilians out of a completely different pot of money to pick up the slack. All well & good 'back door solution' for a while... but like anything else, the long term effects of that fateful decision usually take a decade or two to surface. As military spending got cut nearly every year since then; we, the men & women in the weeds became task saturated with constantly trying to find ways to do 'more with less' as the mission increased while the people & resources of our trades disappeared out from under us- All the while to serve as an enabler to propogate the stupid decisions being made by the higher-ups. The solution? Hire more civilians!

Again, this is a small part of the big problem. Above hiring civilians to take up our mission-related slack; there have been huge programmatic decisions, defense contracts etc that we have become progressively more irresponsibly handled. The result? Bigtime companies bleeding the DoD dry and for some reason being allowed to get away w/it... the left hand not talking to the right, blah blah. Somewhere along the lines, we, the military have been SO dependent on the private sector to help us 'win wars' that we seem to have forgotten that we are THE CUSTOMER...

When I was a young buck, if I needed a part for an aircraft, I could get it from several different sources because nearly EVERY AIRCRAFT TYPE in the command had the same damn part, and the same standard system(s). Obviously, there were differences between airframes, but you get the idea. There were a shit-ton of standard parts.

Fast-forward to here & now- we've buried ourselves so deep in individual contracts and integrated systems... organic sustainment is all but dead... now the majority of aircraft parts only work on THAT AIRCRAFT. So now, in order to sustain each individual aircraft mission, we are at the mercy of defense companies in order to sustain them; and constantly hit with obselescence issues etc. that translate into more money being thrown away.

^^Take that scenario and relate it to similar type situations happening across the other services, missions etc. & try to imagine the amount of WASTED MONEY... Might want to pop an Excedrin or two first lol...

Now consider that we have bases all around the world that we pay tens of billions per year to maintain (infrastructure, military/civilian families, medical, schools- the works). Why? I have no clue- The cold war is over and we have the tools to be anywhere, fully stood up & ready to fight within 72hrs. More wasted money. How about bring all those folks home and contribute to our own damned economy.

Afghanistan? Pssh- that shithole is not worth a single coalition life... yet we are spending billions per month there (about a million bucks per troop per year). Travesty- I spent a year there; lost 8 very good friends... Spent more time protecting civilian contractors than doing a real mission... The civilian to military ratio there is ridiculous- more of them than us! Between the military spending, and the DoD spending to keep civilians over there, again- the money wasted is mind-boggling!

Now consider the things above and try to imagine all of the other stupid decisions going on above in other areas of DoD/government that most of us will never know nothing about. Scary? Absolutely.

Bottom line: Thousands of Federal & other gov't civilian employees being furloughed is probably the easiest way to save face & a few bucks; rather than get rid of the criminals above who caused this in the first place.

To those of you who think they are overpaid; you may want to do some research. Many of my buddies who retired actually get paid LESS in their gov't jobs, but maybe make SLIGHTLY more than they did before only because they have a retirement check coming in to offset. I will agree that there are too many of them... But unfortunately, we have gotten ourselves into a position where we are absolutely dependent on them being there to help us meet the mission. Firing them now would NOT result in everything being fine in a couple years... It would result in the US Armed Forces completely disintegrating from the inside out.

I feel for each and every one of you who are affected by this. I wish there were someone up above to identify fix the REAL PROBLEMS instead of band-aid them by screwing you.

Mike

[stevenrapids]

Thanks for that respnose Mikester, I couldnt agree more. The simple fact is that with all these "band-aid" solutions, nothing gets solved. They are simply delaying the inevitable.

[AFSil80]

Mikester hit the nail on the head.

All those politicians gotta keep the Abrams tank assembly lines rolling for to keep their constituents happy...even though the Army brass doesn't want them.

Bring home that bacon, baby! We're gorging tonight and the taxpayers are paying the bill!

[tiggertsi]

Abolish the IRS and congressional wages/pensions, and lobbyists and this won't be a problem. All those greedy politicians drinking up our money. Get rid of the money, you get rid of the corruption.

Entitlement reform has to happen. Get people off the sickly tit of the .gov, and they will find their own way to overcome. People are resilient, and will survive if they have to. If all govt social programs ended, I don't think that Social Darwinism would take place.


the federal reserve has to go as well. there would be no reason to have an irs if there was no federal reserve. hell the reason why there was a revolution against the british to begin with was because of the crown setting up a central bank and issuing the colonies currency with debt already attached immediately plunging the colonies into financial ruin. inflation is a hidden tax on the nation and the federal reserve is the international banking cartel that uses this hidden tax to suck the wealth from a once sovereign nation. notice i say once.

[AFSil80]

^ Yep, they're all crooks.

[Brian]

Thank GOD I see the Marines flying sorties again pretty frequently.

[Drift_FX]

Which brewery do you work for, if you don't mind my asking?

stone brewing co...