328WHP - 9 PSI - RB25DET, That's right! 9 PSI !!!

[[email protected]]

Hey Zilvia,

We wanted to share some recent RB turbo results!

Chassis: S13
Engine: RB25DET

-Stock internals
-Stock injectors
-9 psi boost
-Pure Turbos BILLET RB25DET upgrade drop-in turbo (modified stock turbo)

328WHP

http://www.pureturbos.com/store/media/photo.JPG

http://www.pureturbos.com/store/media/P1020303m.JPG

The turbo has plenty more left. These turbos support 450WHP!!!

[hobbs]

Torque is pretty weak for a RB25, WHP figures are nice though. What compressor wheel are you using? 20G?

[[email protected]]

Torque is pretty weak for a RB25, WHP figures are nice though. What compressor wheel are you using? 20G?

252.9 WTQ is weak for 9 psi?

It's a custom PURE TURBOS BILLET compressor wheel designed for the RB. There is no "off the shelf" compressor wheel that fits this turbo.

Thanks

[801nismo104]

thats impressive!

[hobbs]

252.9 WTQ is weak for 9 psi?

It's a custom PURE TURBOS BILLET compressor wheel designed for the RB. There is no "off the shelf" compressor wheel that fits this turbo.

Thanks

Well considering at stock boost pressures (7psi) nissan as rated the non NEO RB25DET at 235ft/lb, so a stock turbo at 9psi would be close to your posted 252ft/lb. Any size dimension on the wheel that is in this turbo?

[[email protected]]

Well considering at stock boost pressures (7psi) nissan as rated the non NEO RB25DET at 235ft/lb, so a stock turbo at 9psi would be close to your posted 252ft/lb. Any size dimension on the wheel that is in this turbo?

Is the 235 ft/lb rating at crank or at the wheels?

Sorry, we don't give out the internal specs.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you Sir!

[splitfire]

What's the point of not giving the specs? Any determined man (and definitely, a company) can disassemble the turbo and do all measurements.

[[email protected]]

What's the point of not giving the specs? Any determined man (and definitely, a company) can disassemble the turbo and do all measurements.

Point is to prevent copy cats. And if you want to copy it, you have to buy it. :)

Basic specs are:

CW Inducer: ~54mm

TW Exducer: ~56mm

Thanks guys.

[steve shadows]

It's not bad at all. The only thing is what type of dyno was this done on? What was the correction factor for weather or gearing etc? This would probably be around 285-295 on a dyno dynamics. Still not bad though.

[[email protected]]

It's not bad at all. The only thing is what type of dyno was this done on? What was the correction factor for weather or gearing etc? This would probably be around 285-295 on a dyno dynamics. Still not bad though.

The customer supplied this info to us so unfortunately I don't have any specifics related to correction factors. It appears it was a DYNOmite dyno which would be a "Land-and-Sea" Brand dyno.

The customer is adding supporting mods (injectors, pump, etc...) to start cranking up the boost. He should be putting down some solid numbers pretty soon.

We thought it was impressive for a stock motor on 9 psi...

[Kingtal0n]

OEM camshaft? A/F curve?

oem injectors, orly! OEM manifold too? Internal gated?

[singlecamslam]

What kind of computer was being used please?

[Croustibat]

flow map please.

Right now we just have a claim and no info. This looks way more like an ad than a real thread to me.

[cotbu]

flow map please.

Right now we just have a claim and no info. This looks way more like an ad than a real thread to me.

DejaVu moment!

[Driftpretty]

i believe it..i know plenty of evos and celicas running modded stock turbos and making good power from just that and small bolt ons.

[ch1873857]

flow map please.
:stupid:

Right now we just have a claim and no info.

pretty sure theres both. theres a dyno graph. its literally right there in his first post. your just requesting more.. :spank:

This looks way more like an ad than a real thread to me.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b599/casey_hoffman1/Untitled_zpsc8224902.png

if moderators deem this thread to be in the wrong section. they can easily move it.

[[email protected]]

The only thing we are claiming is that we build great turbos, because we do. As for the dyno info, we are relaying info that a customer gave us who is running our turbo. I'm not understanding how he pulled around 400 crank HP out of stock injectors, but he says they're stock. I didn't think stock RB25 injectors could flow that much fuel even if they are maxed at 100% duty cycle. But I've never tried myself so I wouldn't know for sure.

I understand when results like this are shown, there is going to be tons of doubt and naysayers. We were blown away by the results. I will contact the customer and let him know that he has a lot of people doubting the info he gave us. I will ask him for more details on everything.

I'm assuming you're asking for a compressor flow map. We don't have a compressor flow map for this specific compressor wheel. We have the capability to have a compressor wheel mapped out by one of the companies we do business with. They have a full gas stand room and the proper engineers to do the service. The cost of mapping all the performance compressor wheels we use would be insanely high which is why smaller turbo companies like Precision Turbo, Forced Performance, Comp Turbo, and others don't provide compressor maps. There are none. The real reason is cost. If you call some of these companies you might get the answer "we don't release them to the public", or "we are still collecting all the info to publish at a later date". The reality is they haven't been mapped. Some companies are afraid to say that and would rather lie, we are not. Just because a wheel is not mapped does not mean it is not a good wheel. A compressor map is a good piece of info to tell you what the compressor has the potential to do. There are so many variables involved with the end result that a compressor map is only a small part of the equation. Variables like: turbine wheel size, balance tolerance, machining clearances and tolerances, etc... The chassis dyno result is the end result.

Thanks guys

[funktown240]

flow map please.

Right now we just have is claim and no info. This looks way more like an ad than a real thread to me.

Many turbo manufactures dont provide compressor maps such as Precision turbo. I personally don't care about compressor maps and go off of real world data. This billet upgraded compressor wheel should be plenty big to support 450 whp. I too am skeptical about the HP with 9 lbs but I would consider what kind of dyno was used because they can vary greatly.

[Croustibat]

Many turbo manufactures dont provide compressor maps such as Precision turbo. I personally don't care about compressor maps and go off of real world data. This billet upgraded compressor wheel should be plenty big to support 450 whp. I too am skeptical about the HP with 9 lbs but I would consider what kind of dyno was used because they can vary greatly.

Would you buy an engine without a rev limiter, without knowing its rev limit, and without knowing its output ?

Of course not.

Then why do you accept this from a turbo manufacturer ?

A turbocompressor purpose, as its name implies, is to provide air flow at some pressure, and it has limits.

A flow map tells you everything you need to know about the turbo. Its limits, its efficiency and what it can achieve. It also tells you the manufacturer knows about its products and has means to test and validate them.

A turbo manufacturer not showing its flow map would be like a car dealer that refuses to say more than "it is a car, and it has an engine, but i wont tell you how much HP it makes nor how high you can rev it. Use it till it blows, and sit on your warranty".

I know too well how the performance world works. When it is too good to be true, it usually is.

[Kingtal0n]

A turbo manufacturer not showing its flow map


someone will buy the turbo and turn up the boost until it gives out then post the results. If two or more people do this we will have a really good idea what it can do. I am more curious how an oem internal RB engine can have maximum Volumetric efficiency at 7K rpm than anything. (rb must have cams?)
but what series is it!!! In an S13? Must not be a neo engine, amirite? See what you did, now I am stereotyping the 13

[funktown240]

Would you buy an engine without a rev limiter, without knowing its rev limit, and without knowing its output ?

Of course not.

Then why do you accept this from a turbo manufacturer ?

A turbocompressor purpose, as its name implies, is to provide air flow at some pressure, and it has limits.

A flow map tells you everything you need to know about the turbo. Its limits, its efficiency and what it can achieve. It also tells you the manufacturer knows about its products and has means to test and validate them.

A turbo manufacturer not showing its flow map would be like a car dealer that refuses to say more than "it is a car, and it has an engine, but i wont tell you how much HP it makes nor how high you can rev it. Use it till it blows, and sit on your warranty".

I know too well how the performance world works. When it is too good to be true, it usually is.

Have no clue where you are coming from talking about motors. If you know alot about turbochargers you can usually tell how much HP a turbo will make just based on turbine and compressor wheels but there are many variables. These new billet wheels that are being used by many different manufactures are making more horsepower than there cast counterparts.

Anyways, I dont want to get into a pissing match. The one thing that everyone is missing is THANKING Jesse @ Pureturbos for providing a replacement turbo for RB20/25 capable of this much HP. No one else in the business is doing this!! I have called other professional turbo rebuilders and they would not even consider touching the turbo, not even just replace the ceramic turbine wheel.

THANK YOU JESSE, If I hadn't gone with a top mount setup you would already have my money.

[[email protected]]

A compressor map tells you a lot about the turbo. It's a good piece of information.

It does not tell you everything you need to know about the turbo.

It is a map of the compressor wheel only.

Things that can hinder the performance and potential of the compressor wheel:
Compressor housing size
Turbine housing size
Turbine wheel size
Improper balance
Machining clearances
etc...

Real world data (dyno sheet) is the final end result and it's the best way to see what the turbo can actually support. It takes all the other previously mentioned turbo components into account.

Our billet wheels make big power. We recently upgraded a customers GT2871R 52 trim with our billet wheel. He's in europe running a fully built toyota 1.5L motor. He made 416whp and 425Nm of torque at 2.0bar of boost. This is not an amazing result but it shows that our billet wheels work VERY well. Another simple example is a GT4202R we upgraded to our billet wheel. It is on a diesel pulling tractor and made 918HP and 2206 Ft/Lb at 97PSI!!! Yes that's right, our billet wheel survived up to 97PSI with no issues.

[Croustibat]

I'd rather know BEFORE running a turbo that i am going into surge or overspin territory, not when i install and break it.
That is the turbo manufacturer job to tell me which efficiency i am going to get, too.

I am not talking about what could limit a turbo application on an engine here, i am talking about the primary function of a turbo compressor. That function is giving airflow at a given pressure at a given efficiency, at a given turbo speed.

And yes, i want to know all that before trial fitting it to any application. Engine dyno is a power result, which may be great, but it does not tell you if the turbo is going to break because it is spinning too fast or surging all the time.

[Kingtal0n]

dont mind crousti she is having her time of the month right now. check back in a week or so

i.e. where is your stack of trial and error compressor wheels bought from manufacturers that have provided maps?

[funktown240]

I'd rather know BEFORE running a turbo that i am going into surge or overspin territory, not when i install and break it.
That is the turbo manufacturer job to tell me which efficiency i am going to get, too.

I am not talking about what could limit a turbo application on an engine here, i am talking about the primary function of a turbo compressor. That function is giving airflow at a given pressure at a given efficiency, at a given turbo speed.

And yes, i want to know all that before trial fitting it to any application. Engine dyno is a power result, which may be great, but it does not tell you if the turbo is going to break because it is spinning too fast or surging all the time.

Whatever dude, obviously you have some obsession with compressor maps. I guess if a turbo doesn't have a corresponding map then it must be junk. :rolleyes:

[AdamR]

dont mind crousti she is having her time of the month right now. check back in a week or so

i.e. where is your stack of trial and error compressor wheels bought from manufacturers that have provided maps?

I feel like I type this same reply to you all the time. What in the hell are you talking about?

[AdamR]

Whatever dude, obviously you have some obsession with compressor maps. I guess if a turbo doesn't have a corresponding map then it must be junk. :rolleyes:

He has good reason to be skeptical.
Some random advertiser has posted one dyno graph that they can't confirm anything on. If they don't have the compressor map, they probably haven't done enough R&D.
Anyway, is there really a market for a modified RB25 turbo?

[funktown240]

He has good reason to be skeptical.
Some random advertiser has posted one dyno graph that they can't confirm anything on. If they don't have the compressor map, they probably haven't done enough R&D.
Anyway, is there really a market for a modified RB25 turbo?

There absolutely is, I went with a top mount manifold and a GT35R set up and had to replace all the oil and coolant lines. I could have saved a lot of time and money if there was an easy bolt on replacement of the stock turbo. True the turbo I have now will easily make more power but I would have really considered this turbo if it were available a year ago.

[[email protected]]

I'd rather know BEFORE running a turbo that i am going into surge or overspin territory, not when i install and break it.
That is the turbo manufacturer job to tell me which efficiency i am going to get, too.

I am not talking about what could limit a turbo application on an engine here, i am talking about the primary function of a turbo compressor. That function is giving airflow at a given pressure at a given efficiency, at a given turbo speed.

And yes, i want to know all that before trial fitting it to any application. Engine dyno is a power result, which may be great, but it does not tell you if the turbo is going to break because it is spinning too fast or surging all the time.

Well there is no RB25 BILLET bolt on turbo that comes with a compressor map (from ANY company). So it looks like our turbo is not for you.

Sounds like you should be buying:
-new T3 manifold
-new Garrett turbo (with compressor map)
-new downpipe
-intercooler pipe adapters
-coolant line adapters
-oil feed line
etc...

Looks like you'll be spending a lot more than what our bolt-on turbo costs. But at least you'll have your compressor map. You can even print it out and keep it under your pillow at night! Just kidding, I appreciate the conversation.

I agree that compressor maps are good pieces of info, but they are not mandatory or critical in my opinion. We have used this compressor wheel in other performance turbo applications that have made 450whp. The superback dimension and the shaft bore is different but the wheel is the same.

BTW: Other items coming soon...
RB BILLET turbo (ball bearing version)
BILLET Journal bearing bolt-on SR20 UPGRADE turbo (with GTX2863R WHEELS!!!)

[dftsilvia]

this car has a stock series 2. tune was done via safc 2

[Croustibat]

Well there is no RB25 BILLET bolt on turbo that comes with a compressor map (from ANY company). So it looks like our turbo is not for you.
[...]


Indeed. I'd rather get a proven solution. I do tests for a living amongst other things, so i know how much that kind of thing cost, and why only serious company pay for them. I also know a compressor flow map directly derives from the computations that lead to its design, which tests usually complete, or confirms.

So basically, you dont want to pay for tests, and you dont have the design computations either. Maybe that is because you are not qualified for compressor wheel design ? Maybe that is because you used the chinese "lets copy someone else design and mod it a bit to call it our own" method ?

I also dont believe in miracle. Previously there was a "batmowheel", with the exact same kind of claim. Custom billet wheel without any analysis data.

Now this. Seriously ? Yet another miracle upgrade with no other data than a dyno sheet ?

A compressor wheel is a compressor wheel, what matters is its design, not the material or the machine used to create it. Yes, you can get more precision on the fabrication, tighter clearances, but if your design is no good, precision does not matter. And if you just copy someone else design and add "cool feature", then you dont know if it is good. By good i mean a regular flow with reliable efficiency, no strange surge zone, no fragile regions and so on.

Was this even fatigue tested ?

tune was done via safc 2

If this is true, then i wont hesitate anymore to call the BS flag.

[dftsilvia]

its true. dood lives in my area, and its my boys old car. nothing has been touched on it but this turbo upgrade because he broke the stocker.

[[email protected]]

Let me know if anyone ELSE has any questions. Thanks guys. :rolleyes:

[hobbs]

BILLET Journal bearing bolt-on SR20 UPGRADE turbo (with GTX2863R WHEELS!!!)

This should be interesting if it is paired with the perfect exhaust wheel...

[[email protected]]

This should be interesting if it is paired with the perfect exhaust wheel...

YES! We are excited about this one. We use a GT28 turbine wheel.

Turbine Wheel Dimensions:
Inducer 53.9mm
Exducer 47.0mm

This will be great for the 300WHP - 350WHP guys

[Croustibat]

Let me know if anyone ELSE has any questions. Thanks guys. :rolleyes:

So ... you will only answer people not asking about actual, real data ?

:facepalm:


Seriously ... miracle turbo wheel and an SAFC "tune" ... do you even know you can only trim fuel with an SAFC ? You are telling people you get that kind of power with the stock timing map ? What a joke.

[ch1873857]

So ... you will only answer people not asking about actual, real data ?

:facepalm:


Seriously ... miracle turbo wheel and an SAFC "tune" ... do you even know you can only trim fuel with an SAFC ? You are telling people you get that kind of power with the stock timing map ? What a joke.

Croustibat.

If you are dissatisfied with this advertisers post please take it up with moderators. I know the report button is your favorite and we see how far its gotten you. :facepalm: In this case its the only thing you can do. The advertiser is not required to do dick for you. You may have a professional background with R&D and testing this kind of product but that is completely irrelevant in this case. He pays to advertise here. At least respect that. Go on.. go email every turbo manufacture that doesnt spoon feed you compressor maps. Your just trying to cause argument. Trying to deface someone that hasnt even had a chance to really sell anything yet. He's a paying advertiser and he will definitely have a little more respect from administration than some punk that is known for starting shit on this forum.. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I know if I spent money to advertise here, I wouldnt want someone trying to deface my reputation and my company because my standards werent high enough. (your trying a little hard to discredit this guy) . Its plain and simple if you dont approve. Dont post. This advertiser has been completely professional about the situation and has every right to report you.

[[email protected]]

So ... you will only answer people not asking about actual, real data ?

:facepalm:


Seriously ... miracle turbo wheel and an SAFC "tune" ... do you even know you can only trim fuel with an SAFC ? You are telling people you get that kind of power with the stock timing map ? What a joke.

No, we will answer any questions we can. I'm just frustrated trying to communicate with you. You come across very pessimistic. I have no problem answering questions, but I'm not interested in arguing.

Where did "miracle wheel" come from?

We built a sweet upgrade turbo for RB25 engines. That's my claim.

The dyno and engine data was supplied by a customer. Hopefully he will chime in on this thread so he can confirm all the details.

I can't answer any questions about the vehicle because it's not my car. We were not there when it was ran on the dyno. The customer was overjoyed, told us it spools like the stock turbo, they ran out of injector on the dyno, and then he sent us the dyno sheet. Simple as that. He said they are going to upgrade injectors and turn up the boost. I'm looking forward to seeing what power it makes on such a simple low-cost setup.

[240boi115]

A compressor map tells you a lot about the turbo. It's a good piece of information.

It does not tell you everything you need to know about the turbo.

It is a map of the compressor wheel only.

Things that can hinder the performance and potential of the compressor wheel:
Compressor housing size
Turbine housing size
Turbine wheel size
Improper balance
Machining clearances
etc...


Real world data (dyno sheet) is the final end result and it's the best way to see what the turbo can actually support. It takes all the other previously mentioned turbo components into account.

Our billet wheels make big power. We recently upgraded a customers GT2871R 52 trim with our billet wheel. He's in europe running a fully built toyota 1.5L motor. He made 416whp and 425Nm of torque at 2.0bar of boost. This is not an amazing result but it shows that our billet wheels work VERY well. Another simple example is a GT4202R we upgraded to our billet wheel. It is on a diesel pulling tractor and made 918HP and 2206 Ft/Lb at 97PSI!!! Yes that's right, our billet wheel survived up to 97PSI with no issues.

400's on a 1.5?!?!?!?! hooooe shaaaaat! xD 97 lbs!?!?! daaaang! not exactly sure what it is that you do....you take oem turbos and modify them to handle boost more efficiently? i know my friend bored out a t25 to fit a t28's internals...that kinda what you guys do???? id love to keep a smaller looking turbo (avoid boost lag and cops popping hood) but have decent hp numbers as well..

[[email protected]]

400's on a 1.5?!?!?!?! hooooe shaaaaat! xD 97 lbs!?!?! daaaang! not exactly sure what it is that you do....you take oem turbos and modify them to handle boost more efficiently? i know my friend bored out a t25 to fit a t28's internals...that kinda what you guys do???? id love to keep a smaller looking turbo (avoid boost lag and cops popping hood) but have decent hp numbers as well..

Yes we upgrade stock turbos. We also build new complete performance turbos.

PM us with your WHP goal and we can let you know what is recommended for your application. Thanks!

[Dolby109]

Do you guys need or take the stock turbo's as cores?

What is pricing on the SR20 T25 turbo's? Any timeline when you expect they will be available?

[[email protected]]

Do you guys need or take the stock turbo's as cores?

What is pricing on the SR20 T25 turbo's? Any timeline when you expect they will be available?

Yes we need the stock turbo sent in to have your core deposit refunded. Or if you send your turbo in first, there is no core charge.

BILLET JB SR20 BOLT-ON TURBO

-Billet Compressor Wheel
-GT28 Turbine Wheel
-360 Upgrade Thrust System
-100% Bolt-on

$695 + $100 core charge.

Taking pre-orders now. These will be ready to ship in 2 weeks.

Thanks

[Croustibat]

ch1873857 > I will account for your posts the day they contain an apology for being an insulting dick every time you post. I think i already told you that. BTW If that is the way you are "looking for sponsors", i dare say it is not the way to go.

No, we will answer any questions we can. I'm just frustrated trying to communicate with you. You come across very pessimistic. I have no problem answering questions, but I'm not interested in arguing.

Where did "miracle wheel" come from?

We built a sweet upgrade turbo for RB25 engines. That's my claim.

The dyno and engine data was supplied by a customer. Hopefully he will chime in on this thread so he can confirm all the details.


Ok I will try to say it another way. Try looking at this from a potential customer point of view that has experience / knowledge about charged engines. They may not be the average poster on zilvia, and they may also no be your target for that upgrade, but they exist.

I am not saying you are a scammer, i am saying you are using the exact same communication methods and i think it is a problem when you are a serious shop. I would have thrashed you right from the bat if i thought you were. I think you have been tricked and have been over optimistic here.

The problem is that your claim is not just about a sweet turbo upgrade. Your claim is written in the title: "[email protected]".

If i read that well, you are telling that changing the compressor wheel, with an "SAFC tune" (aka not a tune), and adding 2psi of boost nets a 80-100HP gain. That is a 35~40% increase in power. The stock engine and turbo combo gives something like 10~15% more power when boost is increased to 12-13psi. 10~15% more power, with 3 times the boost increase. That is 3 times better, with only 1/3 of the boost increase. Your claim is about having a product that is 9 times more efficient.

Can you see the problem ? I cant believe anyone would get a 80-100HP increase from 2psi and a compressor wheel mod. In fact i dont think it would be possible even with a turbo that would give its best efficiency at 9psi and the flow required by this engine. Maybe if you add race fuel, higher compression ratio and a perfectly matched tune, you could get these results.

But on a stock engine ? With no tune ? No way.

Your claim is not "selling a sweet upgrade", your claim is "we do beat every turbine designers and manufacturers in the world with our product", and i find it very unlikely. That is why i ask for proofs of your claims, and you have none to back it up. No flow analysis, no speed analysis, no nothing.

Honestly, if someone came to you and say "if you just change the compressor wheel and add 2 psi of boost, you will get 9 times more power than you'd get with the oem wheel at the same boost increase", would you believe him ?

I would not. I would be skeptical, until i see some serious data about this.

Because the best explanation here is that something has been overlooked. A small shop besting every turbine makers and designers, or somewhere, someone made a mistake or lied ?

What i do believe is that the dyno was very very optimistic. I know people that comes to my friends tuner shop with a dyno sheet claiming 500HP and feeling something is wrong. A real dyno shows there is only 380HP.

I think this is exactly what happened. Your customer had a cheated dyno run to flatter his ego. He is probably not aware of it. That and/or there are quite some other mods on the car.

Now the usual scammers that try to sell "fuel magnetizers" and various other miracle products, or engines running on water, they use the same methods.

They cant explain why or how it works, but it works,The common point is they all beat various physic laws and best all known people in the field with astonishing results.

Again, i am not saying you are a scammer, you would not have an advertiser status here otherwise.

I am saying you got overly excited about a faked result.

[ch1873857]

I dont need you to account for my posts. Im not sure what pedestal you put yourself on but your nothing special, sir. I called you an idiot. Your butt hurt about it still. 3 weeks later.... You are trying to make yourself sound like you are an authority will a wealth of knowledge. However, you have no actual credibility whatsoever. No one knows you. You come here thinking you are a governing body of all knowledge. Get over yourself and let people judge the sellers character and methods themselves. Its not your job. He claimed a really nice upgrade for stock turbo. (theres plenty of market for it..) thats it. the dyno is a reference all dynos are different. Could he have dynoed on the stock turbo with the same dyno before hand to compare? Yes. But he didnt. So unless your buying from him (your not) let his real potential customers make the decision.

[BossHogg]

His last post brings up valid points. The previous were getting annoying and coming to a "who the fuck cares" point. Don't like then don't buy. But we all have to agree there is some serious sketch going here. Piggy back tune, 2 psi, dyno etc. There is obviously some parts of the story that need to be cleared up. All we have is dyno sheet, it says what it says. That is all we can go by. Take it or leave it.

[[email protected]]

Croustibat:

Yes, I completely understand your viewpoint. This upgrade turbo is not just a compressor wheel. It's a complete new cartridge with a larger turbine wheel and 360 thrust.

I'm not taking this dyno sheet as the bible, but it's not a big lie like you are making it out to be. This is customer supplied. What do you mean a "faked" result. You think the customer bought our turbo, then bolted on a $1400 Garrett turbo and sent us the dyno sheet? The numbers could be optimistic depending on the dyno but that's the main variable. It's a real dyno sheet with a real stock RB25 with our turbo (for real) at real low boost. Not fake.

Remember HP is a product of torque and RPM. The higher the RPM the more power it will make if top end allows. So if you really want to judge this result. Look at the torque. It's 252.9 ft/lbs peak torque. Which is very solid for low boost but not unbelievable.

The stock turbo is the weakest link on a RB25. Boosting a RB25 to 12-13psi with a stock turbo is like the engine breathing through a straw. The stock RB turbo has very small wheels for such an efficient motor. So as soon as you open up that restriction, your power gains will be tremendous compared to HP per PSI of boost with the stock turbo. It's apples to oranges.

The dyno sheet is to supplement the statement that we build a sweet RB turbo. Take it with a grain of salt, there are variables which can skew the results. Though it is a real dyno of our RB turbo at low boost. Which is impressive. And that's the intention.

Croustibat said: your claim is "we do beat every turbine designers and manufacturers in the world with our product"

Where did you get this statement from? We have never made some outrageous claim like that.

Please do not put words in my mouth, and please do not compare us with a scammer selling fuel magnetizers.

Thanks

[BlewByYou]

With e85 or race gas this is easily achievable, but i dont understand why people are tripping over this hp on 9psi, Clearly you have not messed nor dyno'd a rb25 with an upgraded turbo!!

[Kingtal0n]

With e85 or race gas this is easily achievable, but i dont understand why people are tripping over this hp on 9psi, Clearly you have not messed nor dyno'd a rb25 with an upgraded turbo!!

lets get some dyno graphs in here for comparison. everyone post up whatever you can find, but only using the same chassis dyno.

[[email protected]]

lets get some dyno graphs in here for comparison. everyone post up whatever you can find, but only using the same chassis dyno.

The land and sea DYNOmite chassis dyno is not so common unfortunately. It seems most have a dynojet or mustang dyno. I would say post ALL RB25 dyno sheets with low boost for now.

[Dolby109]

With e85 or race gas this is easily achievable
Actually E85 would just max out the (stock) injectors sooner, making this kind of power hard to attain. Higher octane just decreases likeliness of detonation from high compression, it doesn't necessarily add any power...so you shouldn't need more than 93 with boost this low.

But I agree, I don't think this claim seems as outlandish as Croust does.

[Croustibat]

[...]
I'm not taking this dyno sheet as the bible, but it's not a big lie like you are making it out to be. This is customer supplied. What do you mean a "faked" result. You think the customer bought our turbo, then bolted on a $1400 Garrett turbo and sent us the dyno sheet? The numbers could be optimistic depending on the dyno but that's the main variable. It's a real dyno sheet with a real stock RB25 with our turbo (for real) at real low boost. Not fake.
[...]



No, i think the dyno guy uses wrong parameters on his dyno that overestimates results. Or it was boosting higher than 9psi. Or both. This is a very common practice on dynos, for people that need an ego boost. The customer is not always aware of it either, but it is easy for the dyno operator to know what the customer comes for. If he is doing a base test before an upgrade, or is entering a competition, then he wants the real results. If he is buying a single pass after building the car, or it just looks like a street, modified car, then he wants the "ego boost".

Thing is, when people do mod their car, then get a high dyno result, they are going to talk about it everywhere and goat about it. And talk about the dyno place. And make videos on youtube. But they wont if the dyno result is poor. Huge numbers = more customers for the dyno operator. Simple as that.


[...]
Croustibat said: your claim is "we do beat every turbine designers and manufacturers in the world with our product"

Where did you get this statement from? We have never made some outrageous claim like that.


You made that statement in the title of the thread. And then, again, in big bold letters just under.

You claim 330WHP at 2 psi more than stock, when the stock turbo barely manages 300 CRANK HP at 12-13 psi.

How come ? With a base setting at 7psi, i cant see the stock turbo being completely out of breath with 2 more psi, esp when people tend to run it at 12-13. It means it is quite efficient in that zone, when your turbo seems to be doing fine after 5000rpm only (it hits its best efficiency there).

But You are claiming to get an increase in power 9 times bigger than people get with the stock turbo, and without touching the housings either. With no tune, no nothing other than a compressor wheel (and now also a turbine wheel. But i think the small housings are also quite limiting factors, not just wheels- the bearing changes nothing on the flow map)

What really bothers me in your claim is that I have never heard of that power level with that kind of mod. I never heard of any turbo on the market capable of giving 330WHP at 9psi on an RB25. Simple as that. None. 2psi increase, no tune, + 80-100HP ?

It means your modified turbo is better than any available turbo option. which is exactly "besting every other manufacturers and designers".

Yet you are right, you did not put it that way. But it still means the same.

And i just cant believe that. If that is true, then congrats. But somewhere i cant believe it.

This sound too good to be true, to the point you should have realized something was wrong. But you chose to jump on that dyno result without verifying it, and started advertising with it.

This is where your ad starts to look like a scammers ad:
- claiming doing 9 times better than stock, and better than anyone else;
- refusing to give standard data on your product. No wheel size for a turbo ? Manufacturers do give the wheel sizes, why not ? Because then people would know you just use a standard billet wheel from another turbo ?
- no flow map either, or no indication about max pressure, overspeed or surge. The only data is "good for 450HP".
- basically, nothing that would support your outrageous claim.

That is the receipe for a communication disaster, and i feel it is quite important to point it.



On another note, I also cant help but ask "what is happening" between 4000 and 5500rpm" on that dyno curve. That looks like a weak actuator that cant do its job and / or surge to me.


Please do not put words in my mouth, and please do not compare us with a scammer selling fuel magnetizers.

Thanks

Read the first post of this thread, then your answers to people asking for data, and tell me again how it is different from fuel magnetizers claims.

[Kingtal0n]

If you dont mind Ill tackle this

No, i think the dyno guy uses wrong parameters on his dyno that overestimates results. Or it was boosting higher than 9psi. Or both. This is a very common practice on dynos, for people that need an ego boost. The customer is not always aware of it either, but it is easy for the dyno operator to know what the customer comes for. If he is doing a base test before an upgrade, or is entering a competition, then he wants the real results. If he is buying a single pass after building the car, or it just looks like a street, modified car, then he wants the "ego boost".

Dear crousti, you are right about all of that. Problem is, we dont actually know what the real story is, yet. And we may never know. Also, the boost is not a perfect 9psi no matter what; it could have been 9.8, 8.7, 9.5784, and where did he read the number? cold side? hot side? the pressure is a differential across the intercooler plumbing, changing from place to place. Maybe he measured 9.2psi at the throttle body where the hot-side is reading 11psi. We just dont know. could even be a bad gauge.



How come ? With a base setting at 7psi, i cant see the stock turbo being completely out of breath with 2 more psi, esp when people tend to run it at 12-13. It means it is quite efficient in that zone, when your turbo seems to be doing fine after 5000rpm only (it hits its best efficiency there).

Ah crousti, have you ever seen what a safc does? those big wavy lines are most likely due to the safc's "tune", not his turbocharger becoming more efficient. there is no A/F curve and god knows what the timing is at. Also, why is there a SAFC if the injectors are stock? The maf should take care of any additional fuel, because it reads mass of air, not boost pressure.




But You are claiming to get an increase in power 9 times bigger than people get with the stock turbo, and without touching the housings either. With no tune, no nothing other than a compressor wheel (and now also a turbine wheel. But i think the small housings are also quite limiting factors, not just wheels- the bearing changes nothing on the flow map)

What really bothers me in your claim is that I have never heard of that power level with that kind of mod. I never heard of any turbo on the market capable of giving 330WHP at 9psi on an RB25. Simple as that. None. 2psi increase, no tune, + 80-100HP ?

Do not overlook the peak torque at 7k rpm. Do not overlook the fact that his compressor wheel probably flows well over 35lb/min and that engine is clearly making near 100% VE at 7,000rpm, which indicates that the valvetrain is setup for the high RPM. I suspect it has aftermarket camshafts, almost sure of it, I would be sure if I knew what the oem camshaft could do but I must confess I have never watched a live dyno of an OEM camshaft RB25 in my life.



It means your modified turbo is better than any available turbo option. which is exactly "besting every other manufacturers and designers".

It actually just means his compressor wheel flows more than 35lb/min with an efficiency island better than 66% (its not running off the compressor map, clearly)



This sound too good to be true, to the point you should have realized something was wrong. But you chose to jump on that dyno result without verifying it, and started advertising with it.

This is where your ad starts to look like a scammers ad:
- claiming doing 9 times better than stock, and better than anyone else;
- refusing to give standard data on your product. No wheel size for a turbo ? Manufacturers do give the wheel sizes, why not ? Because then people would know you just use a standard billet wheel from another turbo ?
- no flow map either, or no indication about max pressure, overspeed or surge. The only data is "good for 450HP".
- basically, nothing that would support your outrageous claim.



Well, lets say his boost was really set to 11psi or something other than 9psi. You take one look at the torque and you can tell the compressor has more in it, still. boost can still be turned up. The final pump gas numbers once injectors are upgraded will tell much more about the compressor but we dont have those yet. For now, I feel you are right to be suspicious, we certainly need more information and a BUILD SHEET, PICTURES, DYNO VIDEO, etc... would really help clear this up, wouldnt it?



On another note, I also cant help but ask "what is happening" between 4000 and 5500rpm" on that dyno curve. That looks like a weak actuator that cant do its job and / or surge to me.

thats is most likely the safc, but again i question the need/use of one, since the injectors are OEM. Also, I have seen very large compressors mated to very small turbines give a bit of surge while building boost, that also causes that. I had once tuned an RB26 in a GT-R R32 motorex'd vehicle with a large turbo, no clue what size it was, but when building boost at lower rpms the boost would build right into the surge zone (to the left of the compressor map) at certain throttle positions. You could actually hear the compressor surge from inside the car on the highway at part throttle.

[funktown240]

^^ Dude give it up! I'm pretty sure and speak for everyone and just STFU! What are you trying to prove? That this turbo is a POS? Why don't you start with EBay and ask every seller why they are selling knock off pieces of shit turbos?

[Kingtal0n]

^^ Dude give it up! I'm pretty sure and speak for everyone and just STFU! What are you trying to prove? That this turbo is a POS? Why don't you start with EBay and ask every seller why they are selling knock off pieces of shit turbos?

he is just bored as am i. this is a great way to kill time for us animals. car nuts. people with more finger power than horsepower. hehe :angel:

the real moral of this story is that you cannot post anything anywhere online without somebody calling bs. you need pictures, videos, three different chassis dyno results, onboard a/f curve and post up timing maps fuel maps full build specs crankshaft counterbalance weights piston ring tension main bearing clearances head bolt torque specifications and two different boost gauge readings along with the map sensor / laptop video of a red box moving around etc...

[[email protected]]

Croustibat,

-You're still putting words in my mouth.

-Still saying I claimed things I didn't.

-I did give wheel sizes. Look back in the thread.

-Precision, Forced Performance, Forced Inductions, Comp Turbo and others don't have compressor maps either. So I guess all their turbos are garbage too?

-I never made any outrageous claim. You're making the outrageous claims for me.

-Considering us a scammer and comparing our turbos with fuel magnetizers is disrespectful.

[Kingtal0n]

I do love a good turbocharger conversation:hide:

[[email protected]]

^^ Dude give it up! I'm pretty sure and speak for everyone and just STFU! What are you trying to prove? That this turbo is a POS? Why don't you start with EBay and ask every seller why they are selling knock off pieces of shit turbos?

Thank you!

the real moral of this story is that you cannot post anything anywhere online without somebody calling bs. you need pictures, videos, three different chassis dyno results, onboard a/f curve and post up timing maps fuel maps full build specs crankshaft counterbalance weights piston ring tension main bearing clearances head bolt torque specifications and two different boost gauge readings along with the map sensor / laptop video of a red box moving around etc...

Exactly! It's disappointing for us. We were sharing this because we were excited. We are enthusiasts too and we thought it was awesome such a simple setup made such great power! It's disappointing because this makes us not want to share our customers results. We have tons of results BTW. The honda guys are making insane power with some of our turbos.

[[email protected]]

I wouldnt do that on a forum, better to just not post at all. Right now, its just us. but in 1 year or 3 years or 10 years somebody could pull this up and find all these posts and... well you just dont know. silence is golden when it comes to the internet IMO. I feel you already made your point, made a nice stand for yourself, and if you are not communicating with him then making a post about how you are not going to communicate with him is not the right way to do that IMO.

edited post

[Croustibat]

Exactly! It's disappointing for us. We were sharing this because we were excited. We are enthusiasts too and we thought it was awesome such a simple setup made such great power! It's disappointing because this makes us not want to share our customers results. We have tons of results BTW. The honda guys are making insane power with some of our turbos.

Next time, fact check before being overly exited. I cant believe it, you are a professional, you should know better. You trust this guy so well the thought of him being cheated and/or lying/omitting something did not cross your mind the slightest ? To the point of basing an advertisement on its unbelievable results ? Chances are, if they look unbelievable, that may be because they should not be believed.

Now please, it makes you not want to share your customers results ? Boohoo. That is advertisement, not "sharing result", stop insulting people's intelligence.

Besides i never said your product sucks, and i will write it again if you want me to. I have no experience in them, how could i say that ?

I say your advertisement sucks and is full of lies. Wether these were intentional or not does not matter to me. You just cant deliver what you promise here. You cant, because precision turbo nor garrett cant either.

As far as honda guys go ... i dont know if the ones you have in the US are the same as we got in Europe, but we tend not to take them seriously here.


Last note on your new king friend, you might want to check what he usually writes before going any further with him. He is an interesting fellow, to say the least. His mind seems to wander a bit too much though.


Back to this thread now.

You once again deny you are claiming to be better than turbo manufacturers, so quick reminder :

This is the title you wrote :

328WHP - 9 PSI - RB25DET, That's right! 9 PSI !!!


and this is the first post (big size and text deemed useless removed, but you can go back to the start of the thread if you prefer to see it).


[...]
-Stock internals
-Stock injectors
-9 psi boost
-Pure Turbos BILLET RB25DET upgrade drop-in turbo (modified stock turbo)

328WHP
[dyno charts] [...] 450HP max

You seem not to understand so i will say it another way :

This is advertisement, not "sharing results", and this is bullshit.


Not "your products are bullshit". Just "your claims on this particular upgrade are ridiculous".

That dyno sheet does not match the boost and tuning claims. Simple as that. And based on that dyno sheet, YOU claim this makes 328HP at 9psi with no other mods.

That is an incredible claim : a 9 times improvement over the stock turbo. You NEED serious data to back it up.

Here is what you need to do to get this straight :

get this car true specs,
then dyno it for real. With real correction values, and the real boost used.


Now of course, you can just ignore people that DARE say "look, something is not right here", and concentrate on your fan base yelling "STFU NOOB" like funtown. He cant be arsed to read what i write, so i did put it in bold this time, maybe it will catch his eyes.

But refusing to just admit you were misleaded by something so obvious is not going to help you get new customers.

[Kingtal0n]

the only way to prove its false is to put one of those turbos on your engine and turn it to 9psi and test for yourself.

hes right about one thing though, my mind does wander. Just now I was thinking about the tunneling of electrons of the mitochondrial transport chain from heme group to heme group (iron is just one of many) that generates the proton gradient necessary for driving the actions of the adenosine triphosphate synthase. Did you know that in the mitochondrial matrix, the PH is higher than in the cytosol? protons attempting to get inside the matrix drive the atp synthase, like a machine. :)
The book says that the synthetase (synthase) is 60 times more powerful than a diesel engine of similar weight. You gonna call bs on that too?

gosh, mind wandering makes me hungry. :bigok:

a few more days and crousti will be off her .. cheers

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/synthase_zps59133f90.jpg

[Croustibat]

the only way to prove its false [...]


Well i would be willing to stick it to a RB25, but this is called testing, and it has a price. I am not working for free, and i highly doubt they are willing to ship a turbo overseas and back for testing, esp. to some one who has been criticizing them.

BTW if you had not seen it yet, the whole point of my posts here is "they should have tested their turbo themselves before creating this thread."

Although i am not sure it would have had such a spectacular title.

"Reliable modified oem turbo, 280 WHP at 11 psi of boost, room for 18psi" may not sound as much appealing as "328WHP at 9psi of boost". I know, i fail at marketing. I am an engineer, the kind of people who know their stuff but fail at selling it.


Now you want to appear as a man of science, so remember how it works: when someone claims something he has to prove it is right. Not the other way around.

[ch1873857]

croustibat has a CA18 anyway.. haha

this thread went to shit quick..

[2xmuchxsupreme]

I Fully agree with croustibat, If your going to claim some outrageous claim be ready to back that shit up... This is the Internet.. It honestly looks shady, especially when he can't even defend himself. Please stop with the smoke and mirrors bs.

[[email protected]]

I just talked to the customer on the phone. He's in Depew, NY.

He confirmed:
-stock motor
-stock injectors
-tuned with a safc 2

I told him to get on zilvia and share some details about his car. Hopefully he will follow through.

He sent us some pics:

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/3817/img952815.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/8850/img952780.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img43/5680/img952732.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img255/1046/img952415.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/4867/img952126.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/6005/img952125.jpg

Thanks guys

[Myke]

Well I guess I have become Internet famous, yes my car is stock, injectors are stock side feeds, if someone has a ?, feel free to ask, I blew my stock rb turbo up, a buddy sent me to pure turbos , I spoke with Charles for about an hr told him I wanted a stock turbo cause I don't have nothing else done to my car, told him I was planning on getting bigger injectors later on, received my turbo a few weeks later, called them every 5 seconds once I got it to basically walk me thru putting it on , it sat in my garage for 2 months, took it to the tuner last week, he ripped it and it based at 302 hp blowing smoke and running like poop, tuned the safc2 and thats it, he wouldn't touch the boost or anthing else until I get bigger injectors. Quick run down :
90 s13
Rb25det series 2
Q45 maf
Z32 fuel filter
Walboro 255 pump
This is we're it gets tricky, if anyone knows me on here u kno the car, it is not a neo motor , apperently 3 pages later and u think my cars fake.. If everyone is griping about how much my car makes with just a fuel change, I really don't kno what to say, I bought a turbo from a company that a new nothing about and they've been helpful ever since. I call all the time over something dumb because ur right this power is crazy to believe cause the car dosent even right half the time lmao!!! But they walk me thru and take the time a company should take to make sure money was spent wisly by a new customer, so thanks to pure turbos for building me a sick ass turbo that apperently is now famous :)

[Croustibat]

Again i am not telling pure turbo did a bad job at providing the turbo, i am telling they did a poor job at basing their advertisement on fantasy numbers.


I am saying the power figures on that dyno sheet are not possible with the mods this engine has, and so will anyone who know these engines.
This would not be possible with a 280HP neo, and certainly not with a 250HP S1 or S2. This is the stock power when new, not when they have been used for 20 years.

That dyno says your engine has a power output 100HP higher than it did 20 years ago.
And it cant happen.

That is not due to the turbo provided, NO turbo will ever give a 100 more HP at 9 psi on a stock RB25. Not with the stock IC, not with the stock tune or a band aid SAFC fuel trim, not without race fuel or E85, not with stock compression ratio, not with 2 psi, and probably not with the stock fuel system.

On a general matter, these are the usual cause of higher-than-real readings :
dyno weather correction is out,
dyno inertia calibration is wrong,
dyno gear ratio is not set properly (shorter gearbox ? shorter diff ?),
you got wheel slip,
the pull was not made on the correct gear (always use the gear with 1:1 ratio, 4th usually).

It probably is a mix of the first 3 reasons, wheel slip is easy to spot and you should not have it with that boost and tune, unless you have very poor tyres.
Same goes for the gear used, using 3rd produce way off power readings, not to this point.

IMHO, but this is pure speculation on my side, if this turbo upgrade is that good, you should have a max of 280WHP, tops. Probably more like 260-270 though (which is still impressive over the stock 230ish)

[smoked240]

I'm running an all stock Rb25 tuned on e85, supporting mods of course. 10psi and I'm making 270hp and like 213tq. When I get the chance at one of these turbos, I'll set it at 10psi and I will personally make sure you get the dyno map. Hopefully that will shut you up.

Jesse, I'm kinda interested in the BB rb25 turbo. What's the price and do you happen to know when it will be for sale? Thanks.

I don't think anyone sees the big picture here. The Rb's crutch is it's turbo. Not sure if you've checked into top mount conversions for the Rb..but they can get fucking expensive. Plan on dropping 2k+ on just a twin scroll. Cause let's be honest, why waste the money on a $400 manifold from eBay that's going to crack. This turbo makes the transition into awesome power so much cheaper and easier. I thank pureturbos cause this is exactly what I've wanted for the past two years.

[Myke]

I'm running 93 octane, he did tune it in 3rd gear, before it was tuned the car put down 308.2 hp running like shit and 229 of tq... Running like shit, I have that video. After the tune it made 328 and 260 . All with a safc2 on 9 lbs. the gain was 28 hp with this turbo not 100. I'm new to turbod cars so I don't need to lie but I no this car has no other engine mods because I bought it off a friend, 3 years ago who beat it up everyday , I bought it , fixed whatever I could painted it and here it is, if u dont think my car makes this power, seriously pay for my next dyno and well see again. Or wait patiently and when he has his dyno day for way less, ill put up my new dyno sheet.... Which will be way higher :faint:

[Myke]

Pure turbos if u can put my video up feel free and let me kno what section it's in

[[email protected]]

Jesse, I'm kinda interested in the BB rb25 turbo. What's the price and do you happen to know when it will be for sale? Thanks.

For RB Ball Bearing Turbo - We are having a custom ball bearing bearing housing made to accept the stock RB coolant lines like our journal bearing turbo does.

We can already build a ball bearing RB turbo now, but you will have to use adapter fittings on the bearing housing for the stock coolant lines. PM us for pricing. We can have this done and shipped within 1-2 weeks.

Thanks

[ch1873857]

Is it me or are the curves identical? So i did this. and figured something very strange. 296 horsepower is above 300??? So instead of jibber jabber. I used real life math to figure out horse power per pixel and i came up with an estimated (disregarding the numbers on the sheet) that the top graph shows 327.36hp and the bottom shows 325.84hp. these are estimates and only estimates by the angle at which the picture was taken. but those numbers are oddly close to the 328.1hp. either way I have concluded because of math and my eye balls that the top sheet is in my opinion fake..

Removed picture for sake of OP.

[[email protected]]

Is it me or are the curves identical? So i did this. and figured something very strange. 296 horsepower is above 300??? So instead of jibber jabber. I used real life math to figure out horse power per pixel and i came up with an estimated (disregarding the numbers on the sheet) that the top graph shows 327.36hp and the bottom shows 325.84hp. these are estimates and only estimates by the angle at which the picture was taken. but those numbers are oddly close to the 328.1hp. either way I have concluded because of math and my eye balls that the top sheet is in my opinion fake.. discuss??/


Look closer. I see what you're saying but it looks like it is two different prints of the same exact dyno sheet. I think it's the same run but the HP and TQ figures are being plotted and shown at different points on the curve. See how the top one shows 296 at a dotted line more to the left of the actual peak? Same with the TQ, the actual peak is 260.3 but over towards redline it drops down to 252.9. It looks like it's the same dyno run but with figures shown at different RPMs. Notice the dotted lines next to the figures? Same dyno sheet showing figures at 2 different RPMs. So the top one is showing torque peak, and the bottom is showing HP peak. Does that make sense? It's not FAKE and REAL. It's all REAL.

[GalmTeam]

I have to agree with Croustibat on this.
First off i'll assume you're claiming 328HP at the WHEELS and not 328HP at the ENGINE/CRANK.

If you meant 328BHP(at the engine) then you're dyno graph looks about correct and it's entirely possible with the turbo and setup you have. I've seen that Canada,Australia,Japan etc. Although, you're probably not running a very safe tune and SAFC is not a tune...it's just a bandaid solution.


Now if you mean 328RWHP.....
First off the turbo you had modded there is a RB20 turbo and not a RB25 turbo. At least from the compressor cover. Do you have any pics of the exhaust (back side) of the turbo? If you are running the stock RB20 exhaust housing then you're using a .4 A/R exhaust housing (which is smaller than the RB25 turbo exhaust housing btw) which is small and might give you some problems down the line.

It is very hard to believe that you can get 328RWHP @ 9psi with just SAFC. In Australia, UK, Canada tuners have never achieved that on a stock setup and they've all been tuning actual Skylines for years with proper stand alones. SAFC is just a fuel computer that just adds or removes fuel and tricks the AFM.

Btw, do you know what AFR you're running at WOT? Or put up the boost curves of the turbo. Everyone just wants more info/proof about the numbers you're car is making.

Stock injectors on a RB25 are 370cc which means they can only support just under 300RWHP @ around 80% duty cycle, safely with a proper tune. So at this point you either have aftermarket injectors or youre running the stockers at 80-100% duty cycle which will damage them.

in order to get ~330RWHP usually this is the formula:

-A/M Intake pipe for stock turbo or 4inch intake pipe if planning to make more than 330RWHP (stock 2.5 inch causes a restriction after 330rwhp)

-full 3 inch exhaust from turbo back (without cat preffered)

-Turbo capable to flow enough air and run at least 15psi of boost without breaking

-front mount intercooler

-Z32 maf/Q45 maf for tuning and getting proper scales; RB25 maf maxes out at just under 280-300rwhp

-A/M Fuel pump

-440cc or bigger injectors (common to use 550cc) and Fuel pressure regulator

-stand alone ECU or some form of full engine management

Now, you've done most of these except the injectors and engine management which is why it's hard to believe you're getting ~330RWHP. 330BHP.....yes that seems fine. 330RWHP....hard to believe.

In either case post up more info and let us know.

[ch1873857]

Then what is this dyno supposed to prove then? The car made 328hp.?

I want to see gain. Horsepower numbers are pretty irrelevant unless you can duplicate the dyno and the conditions with the only variable being the turbo upgrade.

Gonna have to agree with the french guy on this one.. The same car would dyno different numbers on a different dyno. Just like everyones saying

Ive been looking for GAIN because its the only thing that would prove that this turbo is 800 bucks better than stock.

I see what your saying about the graphs. Just used to normal dynos that annotate max hp. Posting two of the same graphs showing different numbers is a little deceiving. So my apologies on that. But like i said it does nothing to plead your case.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all the opinions and comments guys. I'll let the customer take it from here if he chooses to. Hopefully he continues to answer questions for you.
Thanks have a good one.

[Croustibat]

I'm running 93 octane, he did tune it in 3rd gear, before it was tuned the car put down 308.2 hp running like shit and 229 of tq...


It does not matter if the tune was done in 3 or 4, it is the dyno pull that matters. That and what was done is not a tune; you had the fueling trimmed. While it is better than nothing, it still is not a tune; a tune is about setting the timing correctly, which you cant with an SAFC. And when timing is not set correctly, you can melt pistons, or get bright red turbos (usually resulting in melted pistons too).


Now if you say the engine was running like shit and still making 308HP ... it kind of confirms what i am saying, the dyno reading is off by at least 50HP.



After the tune it made 328 and 260 . All with a safc2 on 9 lbs. the gain was 28 hp with this turbo not 100.


Again, these engines make about 230WHP when stock, not 300. If you did a before/after pull and got 28HP difference, then your car makes about 260WHP, and the mistery is solved.


I'm new to turbod cars so I don't need to lie [...]

I am not calling you a liar. You dont know these engines and didnt see there was a problem. If the dyno guy dont know these either, maybe he didnt see it. Or maybe he didnt care.

What i am telling is these numbers are wrong; they are the result of a badly set dyno. Wether this is intentional or not does not matter to me. It should matter to you though, i'd be angry at the dyno operator if it happened to me.

Once again, stock and new, this engine makes around 250HP at the crank, so it should be around 230HP at the wheels. Unless you had it rebuild, time has taken its toll and it should be more around 210HP, but that is only speculating; so lets say the engine is in perfect condition and made 230 at the wheel, before the turbo change.

You claim to have 328WHP. 328 minus 230ish is around 100HP.

[BlewByYou]

People under estimate RB's lol

[Myke]

I talked with my tuner. He was dead on and will do another pull just for you guys, ill have him check everything from tread depth so I don't get blamed for bald tires, to what weight oil and ambient temp. To what ever else there is to prove the hp my car makes, or have proturbos contact my tuner for another run to prove what there product makes.

[Myke]

Oh and for the guy who asked to take my fake graph down , the top is max tq, the lower is one is hp, I stacked the graphs to fit it in one camera shot.

[slideslidegnarslide]

People under estimate rbs way to much. I watched a local guy make 306 whp on a completely stock rb. Stock turbo stock injectors just had an aem v2 and a mid mount. Psi was set to 10psi. I can see this being plausible. But I guess you guys just need to see some rbs on dynos. Yes rbs make 250 from the factory, but every one knows the factory rb tunes are absolute shit. This same car made 275 at 6psi! But believe what you want guys

[ch1873857]

Oh and for the guy who asked to take my fake graph down , the top is max tq, the lower is one is hp, I stacked the graphs to fit it in one camera shot.

Makes sense. Wouldve been more clear and evident if you did separate.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Myke]

Ok so this is what I got sofar , my a/f was in the 11s , it was 36 degrees out side, and thats 328 at the wheels not the crank, any questions feel free

[Croustibat]

[...]I watched a local guy make 306 whp on a completely stock rb. Stock turbo stock injectors just had an aem v2 and a mid mount. Psi was set to 10psi.

Completely stock, but with intercooler and EMS :bigok:
Which just means not stock at all.

Bigger intercooler, tune, more boost, cams and headwork give horsepower. Injectors, MAF, valve springs, pistons, cranks or rods (when they dont up displacement or compression ratio) are supporting mods. These dont give more power, they are needed to avoid running unmetered air (when MAF is maxed), not enough fuel(when injectors are maxed), or die from high loads (blown ring lands, too much pressure increase on the rods).

Your local guy had power upgrades. Mykes does not. I suspect your local guy had an optimistic dyno run too, but his figures are believable even on the very high side of it.


Ok so this is what I got sofar , my a/f was in the 11s , it was 36 degrees out side, and thats 328 at the wheels not the crank, any questions feel free

Another dyno run wont change anything unless that dyno is set correctly. Event then ... A dyno is supposed to be use in a relative way: do a dyno run before an upgrade, and another after the upgrade (or do multiple pulls to map the engine). You did not make a dyno run before changing the turbo, so you have no data to compare to this sheet.

By doing an absolute dyno pull, you get the results you want: a high score. I already explained why dyno operators tend to fake that kind of run. And it works.

The problem is, sometimes it produce results that scream "fake" . Like yours.

Your engine cannot make 330WHP with the setup you are saying it has. The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

Another point is this :

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/998/stockcoolerpiping.jpg

(click it if it does not show : http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/998/stockcoolerpiping.jpg )

This thing is the stock intercooler. It cant flow enough air for 330WHP with the stock turbo. Fitting an upgraded or a bigger turbo and getting 330WHP through this would result in a quite some back pressure and IATs > 150°C, which may kind of work but is not acceptable if you value your engine life. I also dont think the intercooler would last very long before bursting.


Now we can keep on "debating" if you wish, but there are only 2 options here:

1/ The dyno data is real, and your engine has at least the following mods : intercooler upgrade, real tune -not talking about SAFC, fueling system upgrade (injectors at the very least), eventually cams, boost higher than 9lbs, and of course a turbo upgrade.

2/ The dyno data is wrong, and your engine really has the only mods you are stating; this should net you around 260WHP.

But 330WHP with your setup is not possible, so take your pick.

[Purestock240]

im not overly familiar with rbs, but does that car not have a front mount?

[gretz]

Yaaaaa, 330whp seems pretty high for an SAFC tuned stock RB...

Shit son, you made 30whp more than my 1jzvvti with a haltech ps2000 @ 12lbs with lots of supporting mods... I must be doing something wrong lol

[BlewByYou]

Croustibat:
The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

lol.. We have a Rb25 Neo put down 498whp on a s14 stock fuel system! Aero 340 pump, 880cc injectors! 91oct, HX40, greddy manifold, Power Fc. Everything else Stock!

[Myke]

I already thought I said I have a big front mount, q45 maf, walboro 255 pump and I'm gonna check to see if my injectors are the stock ones, I'm not debating nor trying to be ignorant as I'm learning this car and engine, by everyone chiming in is helping more then hurting cause now I'm suspicious myself, I no for a fact the cams are stock and I don't have no adjustable cam gears. I also have no cat.

[Myke]

And just to stay one fact my buddy has a 1j in his s14 and my car beat by lengths at my local track last year before I pulled the blown turbo off

[Myke]

Here try this , go on YouTube type rj nunley batb3. This is my car that I bought from him, I am now a part of suislide , if u kno him or of this s13 u decided

[GalmTeam]

Croustibat:
The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

lol.. We have a Rb25 Neo put down 498whp on a s14 stock fuel system! Aero 340 pump, 880cc injectors! 91oct, HX40, greddy manifold, Power Fc. Everything else Stock!

What? Not sure if you're being serious or not but there is nothing stock in that cars fuels system or the car itself. The only thing stock in that system is the rb25 neo top mount fuel rail which just holds the injectors. Everything else has been upgraded so its safe to assume the car would produce the 498whp

[GalmTeam]

im not overly familiar with rbs, but does that car not have a front mount?

Not all. Only the RB26 came with a FMIC. All the rest had a small side mount intercoolers. The R34 GTT's RB25 being the biggest of the sidemount intercoolers, but still limited to about 270RWHP before becoming inefficient

[Myke]

My motor is a r33 gtst series 2

[funktown240]

Myke, please get your car dyno'd so you can prove these naysayers wrong!

[Croustibat]

stock fuel system! Aero 340 pump, 880cc injectors

What exactly do you call fuel system ? Fuel lines and rail ? :picardfp:


Myke > big intercooler is not stock. This can easily explain 20-30ish HP.

The MAF does not give power. However i am not sure you can use an SAFC to alter settings enough for this change, it requires a new VE map.

Are you sure this car has never been mapped before ? You could not have ran with that MAF and the stock tune. It would not work at all.

[supersayianjim]

wow, awesome thread!!

[StryfeS13]

So, are we ever going to get a video of these turbos performing on an RB25?

What makes this better than the Hypergear replacement turbos - besides the price?

[smoked240]

So, are we ever going to get a video of these turbos performing on an RB25?

What makes this better than the Hypergear replacement turbos - besides the price?

I would love a couple vids of them. To be honest the pureturbo is more appealing to me because of the price.. Haven't heard much of anything about the hyper gear. Sileighty is the only one I know who has one.

[Myke]

I have videos of my dyno runs, sadly I'm a little upset right now as this turbo is less then 500 miles old and I'm sure u can guess what happend. Needless to say no one wants to return my calls after I sent them a video, I would have called 5 seconds later if it was me. Time to find something else

[Myke]

If someone can spoon feed me as to post a video from my iPhone to this thread I can put them up, including my final one

[feito]

Turbo is gone?

[gretz]

Anxiously waits**

In the mean time, wha happen

[Myke]

Its ticken real bad from the turbo like the blades are hitting inside, still waiting for them to respond

[AlexN]

Thats very impressive

[dreamin240sx]

i may have missed the info somewhere but is the 328whp with a tune or is the boost just turned up?

[Myke]

No thats after I had my tuner mess with the safc. Before the tune he did a pull and got 308.2 with 229 of tq when we finished it now makes 328hp and 260 and that is at the wheels on 8 to 9 lbs, I'm havin an issue right now so if they can help take care of it I can get new injectors and turn up the boost

[GalmTeam]

oh man...
possible turbo wasn't balanced properly and it's hitting the compressor housing?

[Croustibat]

Maybe there is a common cause to the death of your previous turbo, and the premature death of this one.

Do you have an oil pressure gauge ? what kind of pressures do you get ? If that is an oil related problem, your whole engine is the next on the line so it is worth checking.

[StryfeS13]

I have videos of my dyno runs, sadly I'm a little upset right now as this turbo is less then 500 miles old and I'm sure u can guess what happend. Needless to say no one wants to return my calls after I sent them a video, I would have called 5 seconds later if it was me. Time to find something else

Post videos of those dyno runs. You are the one who did 328WHP on 9 PSI right?

So your turbo blew up at 9 psi and pure turbos wont get in contact with you?

[supersayianjim]

so the op is hiding?? sounds like a scam!!!

Raw Brokerage Pro-Mod Billet Turbo Upgrade - RB20 RB25 - Raw Brokerage (http://www.rawbrokerage.com/raw-brokerage-pro-mod-billet-turbo-upgrade-rb20-rb25/)

these guys also upgrade the stockers!!!

[GalmTeam]

so the op is hiding?? sounds like a scam!!!

Raw Brokerage Pro-Mod Billet Turbo Upgrade - RB20 RB25 - Raw Brokerage (http://www.rawbrokerage.com/raw-brokerage-pro-mod-billet-turbo-upgrade-rb20-rb25/)

these guys also upgrade the stockers!!!


Oh yeah i saw that. I spoke to Raw Brokerage about that and asked where or what state they get their turbos done. Told me It's outsourced to a shop in California so i wouldn't be surprised if it's the same shop that made OPs turbo.

Damn, we just need some solid numbers or background testing to confirm the claims of these turbos. Why is that so difficult to provide. Potential customers just want reassurance :cool:

[Croustibat]

seen on the ad :


Note: Many RB oil feed lines have a built in restrictor which must be replaced with a standard -4 oil feed line.


@ myke > did you do that when the turbo was installed ?

[e5s4y]

If someone can spoon feed me as to post a video from my iPhone to this thread I can put them up, including my final one

click on the video under picture gallery, on the bottom corner theres a box with an arrow pointing out, tap it and tap the youtube icon. Be connected to wifi and upload in hd

[BoredEE]

I'm happy that someone stateside are providing hybrid turbos for RB's.

I just hope they are (re-)building quality turbos.

I don't know much about turbos but don't larger turbos make more power psi per psi compared to smaller turbos. Google shows many results for people trying to figure this out.

[Myke]

I'm not hiding lol , just haven't been on and still waiting to hear from pure turbos , if it were my company I would have called back seconds later .

[Myke]

I didnt put in a restrictor because I was told this is a simple direct swap, if so they never mentioned it when I told them or shouldn't I have recived it with the turbo?

[StryfeS13]

Still wanting to see that dyno video.

[GalmTeam]

X2 ^^^

I didnt put in a restrictor because I was told this is a simple direct swap, if so they never mentioned it when I told them or shouldn't I have recived it with the turbo?

Based on their ad the turbo is a journal bearing so you dont need a restrictor unless it starts to smoke or seep oil. I've had Skyline's where we did indeed need to put a journal bearing restrictor in place. For the most part journal bearings dont need restrictors.

Anyways, did you use the stock oil feed line that came with engine or did you replace the line and put in a brand new AN-4 or AN-3 line?

[Myke]

Yea I used the stock lines that were on the motor, it does smoke on decel and I'm going through oil like a maybe 2 quarts a week, if I don't go into boost or the highway it seems fine , do u have an idea of what restrictor size I'd need , I don't have a oil pressure gauge so I don't now what its putting out, or if this smoke is maybe valve seals now

[801nismo104]

dang im surprised they havent gone in here to clear things up or return your call Myke. They just lost alot of potential customers. shitty customer service

[Myke]

I got locked out of my yahoo so its gonna be a bit cause I only have a phone no computer so please bear with me and if u want pm me ur cell and I can send it that way

[GalmTeam]

Yea I used the stock lines that were on the motor, it does smoke on decel and I'm going through oil like a maybe 2 quarts a week, if I don't go into boost or the highway it seems fine , do u have an idea of what restrictor size I'd need , I don't have a oil pressure gauge so I don't now what its putting out, or if this smoke is maybe valve seals now

You shouldn't need an oil restrictor but given that your car is smoking black clouds you might need one or your car could be running really rich. You should really have an oil pressure gauge, because then it would be a lot easier to narrow down if you need a restrictor or not.

-Take off the intake and check for leaks near the front/compressor of the turbo
-run your hand around the outside front and back of the turbo and see if there is any oil residue

Usually a .08 or .065" restrictor is used on JB turbos. General guideline for Garrett turbos are .06 for non ball bearing and .035 for ball bearing turbos.
I would start with a .08 and see if it helps.

Now the bigger issue is your oil line. The oil feed line on *your* motor is it a hard line that twists around, like the small, middle one in the picture:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/Shockster0429/IMG_2054.jpg

If it looks like the picture one then that line already *should* have a restrictor in one of the banjo bolts.

If your oil line looks different then there probably isnt a restrictor in place.

[Myke]

Ill have to check in the morning, I did see oil on the cold side of the turbo but was told its normal as with shaft play because of this turbo, it dosent smoke at idle just under load when stopping, its not huge plums but enought to kno its there and stinks, I can't upload video cause this iPhone sucks but I will figure it out cause pics and videos help more then words. I don't think its cause of the turbo but I can't think why else it would do this, as for someone who said this might be why the first one popped. This car was beat to shit when I got it as a daily drift car,and was thrown together, I fixed everything I could and replaced the turbo, I was told theres no breakin period for the turbo so two weeks later it hit the dyno . The car pulls insanely hard and it does spool quick, not like it did with the blown neo turbo but it does , I'm not bashing pure turbos in anyway as Charles has been very helpful, but I'm a little upset that still no return phone call which is why I haven't sent it back yet to have them test whats going on with it.

[Myke]

I also did a compression check and got 150 and 1 149 on all 6, as for a leak down I read that can't check valve seats or seals, like I said it smokes daily but not on idle which leads meto believe its not turbo related. Maybe something else until I can see where its coming from or puddling up in, I'm also the only one in my area who has this motor so everyone I kno has no answer but the worst case senerio type .

[bussitcustoms]

It smokes under load (ie, in boost) and you DONT think its turbo related? Howd you come to that?

[Myke]

Idk I'm on the thruway and my friend told me he can see and smell oil, but it don't look like anything to me and I can't smell anything until I slow down or take my foot off the gas, forgive me if wrong on this but maybe it is from that. Its hard to not no anyone that can help me so its all Internet for me to find answers. I'm not playing dumb so please no one take it that way but I'm trying to learn this as I go. The car runs fine minus the smoke and putting oil in weekly, but I shouldnt be doing this I kno with a new turbo,? My question is why didnt they tell me or send a restrictor for this turbo? Idk, why haven't they answer these post or called back? Idk. What I did find out is the oil could be coming from the drivers side rear of the motor so it could be somehow leaking down the side into the turbo or some shit and seeping into the exhust and turbo somehow

[Myke]

It may be leaking from the half moon shits

[GalmTeam]

Idk I'm on the thruway and my friend told me he can see and smell oil, but it don't look like anything to me and I can't smell anything until I slow down or take my foot off the gas, forgive me if wrong on this but maybe it is from that. Its hard to not no anyone that can help me so its all Internet for me to find answers. I'm not playing dumb so please no one take it that way but I'm trying to learn this as I go. The car runs fine minus the smoke and putting oil in weekly, but I shouldnt be doing this I kno with a new turbo,? My question is why didnt they tell me or send a restrictor for this turbo? Idk, why haven't they answer these post or called back? Idk. What I did find out is the oil could be coming from the drivers side rear of the motor so it could be somehow leaking down the side into the turbo or some shit and seeping into the exhust and turbo somehow

It's a journal bearing turbo so usually they don't need a restrictor and won't send you one. Garrett Turbos being the only exception where they will have one built into the turbo. But then again Garrett always goes above and beyond for their customers.

However if you had an oil pressure gauge and you knew what your cold start, warm, WOT oil pressure was then they would be able to tell if you needed a restrictor or not when you ordered the turbo. Turbos companies don't want to be liable if you blow the turbo or your engine because of install issues. In any case it's very bad on their part they haven't contacted you. DId you call them again?

besides on their sales ad they state:
Note: Many RB oil feed lines have a built in restrictor
which must be replaced with a standard -4 oil feed line.

So just be aware they may use that as a way to write off liability in case the turbo was flooded with oil (or starved from oil).

Post some pics of the turbo installed on the car if you can


It may be leaking from the half moon shits
You might have small pile of oil on the floor when the car is parked. My skyline was leaking from the halfmoons for a while and it would leave small puddle when parked.

[supersayianjim]

time for a holset!!

[StryfeS13]

Where is Pure Turbos at on the situation?

[Myke]

Ok I checked my oil feed line and its the long one u pictured not the small one, as far as oil pressure gauge I will be ordering one ASAP. If gale team can send me an email address I can send pics and videos that way, for some stupid reason I can't make a YouTube account cause I don't remember my yahoo password so google won't work either, I appreciate the comments that are coming in and like I said, I'm new to this

[Myke]

As for the half moon shits yea the driver side above the turbo is the one leaking,

[Myke]

One more thing is it to late to put this -4 in and were do u get them from. Is this a size ud recommend?

[Croustibat]

One more thing is it to late to put this -4 in and were do u get them from. Is this a size ud recommend?

The way i read the ad, you need to remove the oil restrictor if there is one, not add it, but i could be wrong.

So yes, if you really have a restrictor and you needed to remove it, it is already too late. But i would not be so sure ... a starved turbo would have died faster than that i think. Remember how that thing is spinning at 150.000rpm and uses oil the same way your crank does: they need pressure so the axle stays floating on the bearings. No pressure = axle grinding on bearings, then developping play, and at 150.000rpm ... it DOES serious and fast damage.

Oil smoke issues now ... if you dont have a proper breathing system, your turbo will burn oil as there will be more pressure in the crank case than in the turbo housings; thus oil will go where there is less pressure, usually through the exhaust housing seal, making smoke, instead of going to the crank case.

This is a major problem though. It does not look like, but a pressurized crankcase means oil does not return there easily and can puddle in the head, leading to starvation. If you have never cleaned the breather system, it would be a good idea to do it. I know the CA18 has a nasty 90° brass bend that gets clogged, but i dont know if the rb25 also suffers from that kind of flaw. Check it.

I had a smoking problem on a 7mgte (mark 3 turbo supra), but this one was due to a cracked valve seat. It did burn a lot of oil though, before it starved the engine to death. This was discovered while rebuilding. It could have happened, but it is a bit unlikely.

Last usual cause of oil smoking is worn valve seals. The engine would smoke when down shifting, when vacuum is at its maximum.

[GalmTeam]

One more thing is it to late to put this -4 in and were do u get them from. Is this a size ud recommend?

-4AN is just a braided oil line.
I agree with Croustibat basically you should remove the restrictor which is usually on the banjo bolt that connects the oil line from the turbo to the RB25. The stock line itself is big enough it's just the connector. Whoever installed the turbo for you can tell you if they replaced the bolt or not. Or if you installed it yourself did you re-use the bolt?
BUt as Croustibat said if its still running the restrictor, pretty sure the turbo would be starved by now.

Are you running a catch can? or was the breather system changed or re-routed on your RB25?

I sent you PM btw, so check your inbox, Myke

[singlecamslam]

This may or may not be relevant. But is your car smoking on acceleration or on decel? If on decel then i'm pretty sure its your turbo, i didnt feel like reading all that.

[dftsilvia]

hey myke i recall about 5-6 ppl in your direct area having rb engines.

[Myke]

Dftsilvia, I now own rjs old 240,so this is the car I'm talking about.as far as banjo bolts yes I reused the ones I had. I was not informed about switching anything because the company told me this was a stock direct swap. And to just get it tuned because it sucks more air. I don't have a catch can on because it only has two ports on top and no breather, one thing I did today was took the maf tube off the turbo, oil puddles inside. The turbo had hardly any, it has a tad side to side shaft play but absolutly no in and out, the only thing I can think of is oil is either coming from my blow off valve thru that pipe and into the maf tube orrrrr the driver side valve cover hose that goes into the intake tube is bringing oil into the turbo and spewing its hot ass ness out my pipe idk. If I can run that catch can it will eliminate the valve covers from going any were near the turbo area

[Esoxlucios]

See latest posts at VWVortex.com - upgrade GT2860RRS to HTA billet wheel on APR Stage 3+ (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5980988-upgrade-GT2860RRS-to-HTA-billet-wheel-on-APR-Stage-3) for my ongoing experience with PureTurbos.

Sean

[Myke]

Damn so I'm not the only one? Fuckin scammers, so basically I gave them my rb25 turbo for this rb20 turbo, they kept my hks waste gate for this gaudy big stock thing in return and now they won't call or responed? And I had 2 of my friends about to get turbos from them, this sucks, talk about makin easy money of a newbie.guess there suckered me

[Myke]

Good I'm gonna send my car somewhere and send them the bill lol... Serioulsy tho thats fucked up my shits all banging around and I felt like I blew it up. When that shit prolly just took out my whole motor

[Esoxlucios]

I just updated the VWvortex post with add'l info.

[Myke]

So now I gotta spend more money to find out if indeed its either seals, the turbo itself or something else? I gotta take a deep breath and relax I'm sick to my stomach lol, I'm gonna vent for a bit and then post all my symptoms and see if someone may be able to point me in the right direction. I kno everyone has opinions so it makes it a bit difficult to follow so apperently zilvia gives more conseren about helping someone then a company.... Nice

[GalmTeam]

Damn so I'm not the only one? Fuckin scammers, so basically I gave them my rb25 turbo for this rb20 turbo, they kept my hks waste gate for this gaudy big stock thing in return and now they won't call or responed? And I had 2 of my friends about to get turbos from them, this sucks, talk about makin easy money of a newbie.guess there suckered me

wtf!? they kept your hks wastegate. That's a nice wastegate they should of return that to you with the turbo. THat wastegate is heaps better than the stock one.

[Myke]

Yes they did and ur the one who sent ur email correct? If so ill send u pics of my old rb25 neo turbo , my new turbo and the dyno video and maybe u could pin point me in a good direction to go as to why its smoking. I just spent heaps on the turbo and parts plus the tune just to maybe have it blowing smoke all over again :(

[GalmTeam]

Yes they did and ur the one who sent ur email correct? If so ill send u pics of my old rb25 neo turbo , my new turbo and the dyno video and maybe u could pin point me in a good direction to go as to why its smoking. I just spent heaps on the turbo and parts plus the tune just to maybe have it blowing smoke all over again :(

YEah that was me. Send it my way and we'll see what we have.
Quite disappointing about pure turbos; even the EVO and VW guys are affected. It's disheartening with you spend all that time and money and you find out stuff wont work.

At this point it might be better to pull out that Turbo and put in a stocker and see how the car reacts. If the car was fine before the turbo and now it's running all crappy then...most likely the turbo is the cause. On one my skylines i had small puddle of oil in the intake, but i also had slightly high oil pressure especially at WOT. So i put in a restrictor and it worked fine. But in your case if you're using the stock line WITH the restrictor in there..then it could be the seals on the turbo are gone as well. Check the bolts around the compressor and exhaust housing...see if they are loose or even if they were torqued correctly?

[Myke]

Ok one last time. The run down, car smoke on decel and when flooring it, its not huge plums like before when I had a blown turbo, it does not smoke on idle, I don't have a pressure gauge as of yet. The muffler tip is a chalky black soot. Pulled the maf tube off the turbo and there was oil( enough to cover my finger) now one tube runs from the valve cover to the maf tube and another goes from blow off to maf tube. Is there a possibility the turbo is fine because there's little side to side play which I was told is normal for this turbo and absolutly no in and out shaft play, I'm thinking it is something like this, oil is going from the valve cover thru that tube and into the maf tube and being thrown thru the turbo resulting in smoke? I kno it could possibly be my valve seals and or turbo from all these other posts. If I figure a way to put my non vented catch can and block off whatever intake ports is there a chance this is just a fluke? I'm really lost here and everyone's input has been taken graciously

[Myke]

And galmteam thats the thing the car is awsome and fast as hell which boggles me as to what it is, as far as the smoking the car runs wonderful

[Myke]

Also were would the restrictor be in the line? I put the banjo bolts that I had back in and they just looked like screws with a hole in the side, there is no leaking of oil or coolant from the ins or outs, ill send the video I sent pure turbos also, cause u can heard rattling in my down pipe.... Which is very strange

[GalmTeam]

Also were would the restrictor be in the line? I put the banjo bolts that I had back in and they just looked like screws with a hole in the side, there is no leaking of oil or coolant from the ins or outs, ill send the video I sent pure turbos also, cause u can heard rattling in my down pipe.... Which is very strange

Rattling could be the wastegate flapper hitting the downpipe.

the restrictor is built right into that bolt thing. If you were to compare both of them you would see that one has a bigger hole. On my car the one bolt going into the turbo was smaller.

check this:

bolt with restrictor:
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/mG59WEiFOYixGWutj3kKA7Q/140.jpg

normal/or NO restrictor:
http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/m/mnzqccZIC0CzUouImPrUA0Q/140.jpg

[Myke]

Oh shit , is it possible i put the feed banjo bolt in the drain side and vise versa?

[Myke]

Galmteam if u can post those pics and vids I sent u feel free, also could this just be blowbye coming out and smoking and sooting ?

[GalmTeam]

Oh shit , is it possible i put the feed banjo bolt in the drain side and vise versa?


no, no, no the drain side is that tube that connects to a rubber hose on the bottom of the turbo. The drain is fine and has an inside diameter that is larger than most -10AN lines.

Worst case you just put the restricted banjo on the engine block if you took out the whole line. If it is indeed still running with the restrictor im surprised it the turbo is working fine as it's a journal bearing.

ANd the oil could be blowby as well which some people tend to get in RBs when they start raising the boost. One thing you *could* do is loosen the oil filler cap to relieve any pressure that might cause the blowwby. Drive around for a bit and see if you get any oil in the intake pipe. If there is no oil then you could say that it was just blowby, install baffled catch can and that should solve most of the problem.

[Croustibat]

Ok one last time. The run down, car smoke on decel and when flooring it, its not huge plums like before when I had a blown turbo, it does not smoke on idle, I don't have a pressure gauge as of yet. The muffler tip is a chalky black soot. Pulled the maf tube off the turbo and there was oil( enough to cover my finger) now one tube runs from the valve cover to the maf tube and another goes from blow off to maf tube. Is there a possibility the turbo is fine because there's little side to side play which I was told is normal for this turbo and absolutly no in and out shaft play, I'm thinking it is something like this, oil is going from the valve cover thru that tube and into the maf tube and being thrown thru the turbo resulting in smoke? I kno it could possibly be my valve seals and or turbo from all these other posts. If I figure a way to put my non vented catch can and block off whatever intake ports is there a chance this is just a fluke? I'm really lost here and everyone's input has been taken graciously

That tube is oil recycling vapor. Again, oil would not go through it, unless you use very poor quality oil or have blocked breathers. You could try to change the breathing system and vent to atm, but if you do, do it with someone's help. If you screw this up, you will either be creating a huge boost leak, or block completely the breathing system.

Also, when your previous turbo blew up, did you clean the intercooler ? The oil you found might be coming from there.


Oh shit , is it possible i put the feed banjo bolt in the drain side and vise versa?

No. The oil drain size is not pressurized, it needs to be as big as possible to avoid that. Oil coming out of the turbo by the drain usually looks more like foam than oil.

I think you have the breather problem. The turbo would have developed a lot of play if it was starved, really. It looks more like the oil is going through turbo seals, and this happens with clogged breathers. Fix these, it is very cheap to do ( basically it is free, only time needed ... worst case scenario, you would need to change the hoses and maybe a 1way valve, which are worth peanuts).


A good indication of the breathing system is shown when looking at the inside of the valve covers. If they are covered in slimy/black shit, it means that engine has not had regular oil changes / quality oil , and the breathing system must be cleaned or bad things are going to happen.

[Myke]

Ok I'm running 10w40 , as far as "breathers", I've put a brand new pcv valve and check valve that goes from the brake booster to mani, clearly I'm missing something which is why its smoking, I can't emphasize enough that its more bothersome to other drivers when I let off the gas and such, as far as pure turbo goes I called , text the dudes cell and sent an email so will see, I've checked other people's catch can setups but almost everyone dosnt have this maf tube no more.croustibat, thank u also for helping me try and solve this problem as I've been sharing my videos and pics with galmteam to get his input. Hopefully this is a venting issuse and nothing more

[Croustibat]

You are running some 10w40, but you dont know what was run for the previous 15 years, nor the change frequency.

Also, 10w40 is an indication of viscosity, not of quality. If you want quality oil, get 100% synthetic, nothing else. "Half" synthetic is bullshit, it usually means 5% synthetic 95% mineral. mineral oils need frequent oil changes, 100% synthetic last way longer.

You need to know if it is the correct viscosity for your engine and your driving conditions, and for that you need (again) an oil pressure gauge. Nissan recommands a pressure range when hot at mid rpm and a minimum pressure at idle. You can find these values in the FSM. Brand new, a 10w40 should be in the correct range, but when it is worn it should go thinner when it is mineral (that is the reason racers 10 years ago used 20w50 oils, as it could transform into a 5w30 very fast. Actual synthetic oils are much less sensitive to wear and will keep their grade for their whole life). So only test when your oil is new.

If a fresh 10w40 gives you low readings, you need a new oil pump, fast. Not thicker oil, unless you always drive it in very high temp weather, but then i'd recommend increasing the "hot" grade, aka going 10w50. Pressure, in oil as in boost, is an indication of flow resistance. Thicker oil means more pressure at the expense of less flow, and a worn oil pump with even more flow resistance will not produce enough flow to keep the engine alive for long. It will also increase oil wear rate, oil temp and global engine temp.

I remember i killed oil in 2000 miles when i had a worn oil pump ... i changed it and can now run thinner oil (which is cheaper, too) for 7000 miles. With more power, and less cooling.

Basically, always run the thinnest oil your engine can cope with, in terms of oil pressure range, temp range (hot oil grade is given for 100°C oil, if you usually run 110/120°C oil get a higher oil grade. If you are getting lower than 90°C oil temps... step on it, dont be a pussy ! ) and oil consumption and hydraulic lifters (some used hydro lifters dont like 5Wxx oil for example).

[Myke]

I do kno for the last 4 years it has ran what I've said , but I don't wanna get off topic and now talk about oil viscosity lol but that was helpful info

[GalmTeam]

ok, here are the vids:

Dyno run 1st to 4th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6sPgIkLQnk


Pure Turbos RB25 turbo on RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQHJ2WSH3E


Noticed your car shoots a bit of smoke near the end of the dyno run. Is that the smoke you mentioned earlier when you drive around?

It does look at least like oil is being pushed though the seals. Start with cheapest and easiest solution which is what Crousti mentioned about the breather system and having it cleaned. Also since it's easily accessible i would pull out the oil feed banjo bolt and confirm if it has a restrictor or not. If it's restricted i would replace it with a normal M12x1.25 banjo bolt and see if it helps reduce that ticking noice


As for the ticking...it's quite loud and it could be a number of things. Hell it could even be the turbo shaft being off balance. But it almost sounds as if the turbine wheel is struggling to spin. Was it always making the ticking noise? And it's coming specifically from the turbo? No exhaust leaks around the turbo or exhaust manifold?

[Myke]

Ok what do u mean clean the breathers? I got brand new pcv valve yesterday, still smokes on decel ,as for the ticking its not that loud in person my phone happend to amplify it,all the gaskets are brand new when I put it back on, I will pull the oil feed line and let u kno what it looks like

[Myke]

And yes this is the smoke I've been refuring to,

[Myke]

If it was a blown turbo seal or something wouldn't it smoke constantly ? It did with my blown neo I sent in as a core

[[email protected]]

Myke please give me a call at the shop, you know I am always here to help. We did not even you know were having issues with the turbo or that you were trying to get a hold of us. As for the actuator, it was sent in on the core or exchange turbo. In no way were we trying to scam or steal an actuator.

[gretz]

How much play is there in the shaft of the turbo? (In and Out)

Looks like a blown turbo to me

[Croustibat]

Ok what do u mean clean the breathers? I got brand new pcv valve yesterday, still smokes on decel ,as for the ticking its not that loud in person my phone happend to amplify it,all the gaskets are brand new when I put it back on, I will pull the oil feed line and let u kno what it looks like

Clean condensing plates and hoses. These plates are usually at the top of the valve covers.

this happens when you dont (although this one is extreme)
http://200sx.kicks-ass.net/album/album.php?username=deji&cat=5064

[jtl260z]

Myke,
Have you figured out whether or not your issue is with the turbo?
I contacted Pure Turbos about buying their turbo for my RB but I haven't bit the bullet yet.

Thanks,
J

[[email protected]]

When installing the RB Upgrade Turbo, check for a factory restricted oil feed line. Some, not all, have these. 0.047" is too small for journal bearing. We recommend a minimum of 0.065"

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8738/20130501131434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/20130501131434.jpg/)

[Myke]

I haven't found out yet about this problem, as far as the feed line i was never told it had to be swapped as it was a direct replacement turbo, if its direct it should just drop in with no other issue so I was totally unaware as I knew. Charles is trying to correct the issuse as we speak so well see

[jtl260z]

Good luck. I hope it isn't a major problem. Please post your results.

J

[gretz]

I haven't found out yet about this problem, as far as the feed line i was never told it had to be swapped as it was a direct replacement turbo, if its direct it should just drop in with no other issue so I was totally unaware as I knew. Charles is trying to correct the issuse as we speak so well see

I noticed this but left it alone... after seeing the "excuse" response about the line, they are definitely trying to push blame before they even know what the issue is...

[[email protected]]

I haven't found out yet about this problem, as far as the feed line i was never told it had to be swapped as it was a direct replacement turbo, if its direct it should just drop in with no other issue so I was totally unaware as I knew. Charles is trying to correct the issuse as we speak so well see

We did tell you. Check your oil line. Let us know if it's restricted. Please call the shop anytime with any questions or concerns. Thanks

[[email protected]]

I noticed this but left it alone... after seeing the "excuse" response about the line, they are definitely trying to push blame before they even know what the issue is...

No one is blaming or pointing fingers. All our customers are forewarned of the possible restrictor. The oil pic line is for those who don't understand where to look for the restrictor. Others have been looking in the banjo bolt. It's in the line...

[jtl260z]

When installing the RB Upgrade Turbo, check for a factory restricted oil feed line. Some, not all, have these. 0.047" is too small for journal bearing. We recommend a minimum of 0.065"

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8738/20130501131434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/20130501131434.jpg/)

Jesse,
You say you need a minimum of a 0.065 restrictor. Does that mean that you can run a bigger line (say a AN-4) without any issues?

Thanks,
J

[59bhp]

if your restrictor is too big the oil pressure in the turbo will overcome the the seals and will start burning oil :)

[jtl260z]

if your restrictor is too big the oil pressure in the turbo will overcome the the seals and will start burning oil :)

That's what I was thinking. If this was my product, I would consider supplying the appropriately sized feed line or at least having it as a purchase option.

[gretz]

I haven't found out yet about this problem, as far as the feed line i was never told it had to be swapped as it was a direct replacement turbo, if its direct it should just drop in with no other issue so I was totally unaware as I knew. Charles is trying to correct the issuse as we speak so well see

We did tell you. Check your oil line. Let us know if it's restricted. Please call the shop anytime with any questions or concerns. Thanks

What I do know, from being there like all other enthusiasts, is when you are unsure and not comfortable doing a mod to a car, you remember and go off the manufacture's suggestions like gospel as to not mess it up.. I'm pretty confident this particular member would have retained you intallation instructions if they had been given

[jtl260z]

What I do know, from being there like all other enthusiasts, is when you are unsure and not comfortable doing a mod to a car, you remember and go off the manufacture's suggestions like gospel as to not mess it up.. I'm pretty confident this particular member would have retained you intallation instructions if they had been given


I looked back at Pure Turbos original post about this turbo... It does state that a larger feed line might be required.

[Myke]

It may state that but I directly talked to them and was told this was a stock replacement. I was never told I may or may not need additional parts to make it work correctly"stock replacement " otherwise I would have purchased whatever else may have been needed, I also thought it may come with the correct restrictor if needed but since it didnt. I went back on the stock replacement theory and now this. They have contacted me about sending a new line for this turbo so will see how it goes if the damage already hasn't begun

[59bhp]

It may state that but I directly talked to them and was told this was a stock replacement. I was never told I may or may not need additional parts to make it work correctly"stock replacement " otherwise I would have purchased whatever else may have been needed, I also thought it may come with the correct restrictor if needed but since it didnt. I went back on the stock replacement theory and now this. They have contacted me about sending a new line for this turbo so will see how it goes if the damage already hasn't begun

each turbo has different requirement with regard to oil flow and pressure, once you change from stock to any other kind of turbocharger, the requirements need to be identified. :)

It sucks they might not have explained it but they also could of just assumed you knew, its quite common knowledge when you start changing turbo chargers :) however not exactly helpfull if you didnt know.

[[email protected]]

Jesse,
You say you need a minimum of a 0.065 restrictor. Does that mean that you can run a bigger line (say a AN-4) without any issues?

Thanks,
J

It depends on your oil pressure but generally speaking, yes. Engines with high oil pressures (like hondas) use a -3 line with no restrictor or a -4 line with a 0.065" restrictor. For the RB motor, a -3 or -4 line with no restrictor should work OK. RB Engines with high oil pressure should still run a 0.065" restrictor.

Thanks

[[email protected]]

It may state that but I directly talked to them and was told this was a stock replacement. I was never told I may or may not need additional parts to make it work correctly"stock replacement " otherwise I would have purchased whatever else may have been needed, I also thought it may come with the correct restrictor if needed but since it didnt. I went back on the stock replacement theory and now this. They have contacted me about sending a new line for this turbo so will see how it goes if the damage already hasn't begun

Myke, we told you so many times on the phone about the restrictor. Remember Chuck walking you through it? Regardless, it's a non-issue. If your your turbo is damaged from the restrictor size, send it in so we can get the turbo fixed. If you just simply call and talk to us you will find we have better customer service than other turbo companies. We're here for you! It's not a big deal! Let's get that thing fixed so you can enjoy your car!

Thanks

[[email protected]]

By the way: shhhh don't tell! It's classified!

We have developed a new even faster spooling RB upgrade turbo. It utilizes a smaller turbine wheel which flows like a GT30R turbine wheel. It runs a 53mm exducer. We have 3 RB turbos going out this week with the new fast spool turbine. We are looking forward to exciting results!

Thanks

[jtl260z]

By the way: shhhh don't tell! It's classified!

We have developed a new even faster spooling RB upgrade turbo. It utilizes a smaller turbine wheel which flows like a GT30R turbine wheel. It runs a 53mm exducer. We have 3 RB turbos going out this week with the new fast spool turbine. We are looking forward to exciting results!

Thanks

Any pics or price information?

[jtl260z]

By the way: shhhh don't tell! It's classified!

We have developed a new even faster spooling RB upgrade turbo. It utilizes a smaller turbine wheel which flows like a GT30R turbine wheel. It runs a 53mm exducer. We have 3 RB turbos going out this week with the new fast spool turbine. We are looking forward to exciting results!

Thanks

Nothing on your website about these either but you have 3 going out?
Are these three turbos promotional or is this product actually for sale?

[Myke]

Well hopefully these come with all thats needed.

[jtl260z]

Well, due to the lack of response from Pure Turbos (here and from the several emails I've sent directly), I am going to take this as a sign of their poor customer service.
Plus, for a little bit more $, I can get a bigger than stock bolt-on turbo that will easily get me to the 400-450 whp range. All I have to do is change the dump pipe.

[Myke]

Well that want me to send my turbo in but from what happened to the one guy wtf am I supposed to do if they don't send it back?.

[Myke]

I have sent numerous emails and I get a response here and there . I kno they have a name to protect so I thought they'd definitly be on the ball. I still haven't recieved my hks wastegate they said they were gonna ship back or even a couple decals so I'm definitly scetched out about sending a turbo on my daily

[[email protected]]

Feel free to call us directly (on the phone) for a quick response. We are open M-F 9-5. Thanks

[dftsilvia]

thought the problem was ur cyl # 3 has 30% leakdown?
would explain the smoking issue you have

[Myke]

Are you talking to me? I never said anything about number 3 or a leak down and whats ur name and how u kno me?