U.S. Gun Control discussion

[1 88 U]

This thread is to debate or bitch about current and proposed gun control policies in the U.S. so we're not shitting up the Gun Thread.

[K_style]

This thread is to debate or bitch about current and proposed gun control policies in the U.S. so we're not shitting up the Gun Thread.

Thanks for making one for this.

F those who trying to take our rights away from us.:barf:

[godsmack]

I stopped caring about what they are trying to do. Myself as well as most of my friends are good to go. I don't think that they are going to have the balls to collect any kind of gun if they do end up passing a ban and not grandfathering ppl in that already own. It'll be interesting to see them try it though. Just hope that we don't end up having to fight the gov't and another country that decides to help or just tries to take over.

[AFSil80]

I don't think that they are going to have the balls to collect any kind of gun

I wouldn't put it past them. So many of those in Congress are drastically detached from their constituents...not to mention they are egomaniacs addicted to power.

All they have to do is put out an idea and the media marketing departments will take off and run with it and sell a story to the US and try to convince the citizens that armed Americans are a minority.

[godsmack]

^ well I can see them doing that. But the fact is that there's a good amount of people that do have the guns and they are all generally around the same areas. So when it would come time for the gov't to try and take them, instead of only going at 1 person they're met with a whole town that's not giving up the guns. I for one will shoot anyone on my property asking me to hand over my weapons.

[Mofuhcka]

I for one will shoot anyone on my property asking me to hand over my weapons.

With you on that. Its just gonna eventually cause another Civil War if they try to take our guns. The main reason they gave us that right was to protect ourselves from the government, theyre only getting what they asked for.

[7RIFT0]

Don't get me started in the discussion lol.

[K_style]

Don't get me started in the discussion lol.

I happened watch Piers Morgan or whatever his name is yesterday..

Clearly Liberals keep pushing "why do people need semi-auto?"


It's not the need !! It's the rights that they are trying to get rid of...

[7RIFT0]

You're exactly right. They are trying to take the weapons out of the law abiding citizens hands. They are our birth given rights and were written into the constitution to allow people to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. I use guns for sport and for self defense. As do (as per recent poll) 57% of Americans. Yes there were 11000 deaths last year due to firearms. That is less than 1% of our population. They fail to mention that this number (12000) is the total of all fire arm related deaths including cops using their firearm in the line of duty and citizens utilizing their 2nd amendment right defending themselves and or their families.

Watch this video. Its 14 minutes but well worth the watch. He puts everything into perspective perfectly.

Piers Morgan Gets OWNED By Ben Shapiro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM)


I happened watch Piers Morgan or whatever his name is yesterday..

Clearly Liberals keep pushing "why do people need semi-auto?"


It's not the need !! It's the rights that they are trying to get rid of...

[K_style]

You're exactly right. They are trying to take the weapons out of the law abiding citizens hands. They are our birth given rights and were written into the constitution to allow people to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. I use guns for sport and for self defense. As do (as per recent poll) 57% of Americans. Yes there were 11000 deaths last year due to firearms. That is less than 1% of our population. They fail to mention that this number (12000) is the total of all fire arm related deaths including cops using their firearm in the line of duty and citizens utilizing their 2nd amendment right defending themselves and or their families.

Watch this video. Its 14 minutes but well worth the watch. He puts everything into perspective perfectly.

Piers Morgan Gets OWNED By Ben Shapiro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM)

I will watch that after work..

Yesterday here in Portland, some 20s male broke into a house and assaulted his ex-girl friend and her boy friend with a hammer and kidnapped a baby.

I heard conservative radio report saying a deadly assault with a hammer occurs more than a gun related assault.

Should we ban a HAMMER??? or just a "Military style HAMMER"?

[S14DB]

I will watch that after work..

Yesterday here in Portland, some 20s male broke into a house and assaulted his ex-girl friend and her boy friend with a hammer and kidnapped a baby.

I heard conservative radio report saying a deadly assault with a hammer occurs more than a gun related assault.

Should we ban a HAMMER??? or just a "Military style HAMMER"?

I think only registered tradesmen should have access to specialty hammers. I was surprised to see Home Depot and Lowes selling framing and roofing hammers. No regular person should ever need these aggressively styled hammers.

Regular civilians should only need Ball-peen Hammers. Nothing more.

[AFSil80]

I think only registered tradesmen should have access to specialty hammers. I was surprised to see Home Depot and Lowes selling framing and roofing hammers. No regular person should ever need these aggressively styled hammers.

Regular civilians should only need Ball-peen Hammers. Nothing more.

What are you talking about, all the regular citizen needs is this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/AFSil80/hammer_zpscc7f8266.jpg

[K_style]

I think only registered tradesmen should have access to specialty hammers. I was surprised to see Home Depot and Lowes selling framing and roofing hammers. No regular person should ever need these aggressively styled hammers.

Regular civilians should only need Ball-peen Hammers. Nothing more.

Dang right..!!:bowrofl:

[K_style]

What are you talking about, all the regular citizen needs is this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/AFSil80/hammer_zpscc7f8266.jpg


You know that could be very dangerous.. It could damage your ear drums as well as chemical consumption to your body, pinch point, and stabbing.

[1 88 U]

Biden is a fucking hypocrite but this idiocy is funny.

S9kU6djguf4

If shot guns are more deadly than "assault weapons" why are they trying to ban "assault weapons"?

[S14DB]

Biden is a fucking hypocrite but this idiocy is funny.

S9kU6djguf4

If shot guns are more deadly than "assault weapons" why are they trying to ban "assault weapons"?

I thought they patched that already...

[Corbic]

Biden is a fucking hypocrite but this idiocy is funny.


If shot guns are more deadly than "assault weapons" why are they trying to ban "assault weapons"?

That logic will never work with liberals.

Their end goal is to ban all fire arms, most likely with exception to black-powder.

So yes, ban "assault rifles". Then it will be "ban sniper rifles". After all, most states you can't hunt with a rifle, and why would you need .308 to target practice when you can get a .22lr?

Then shotguns will become the gruesome murder weapon - and we'll ban those too.

You'll have flint-locks and bows to hunt with - just like the Framers.

[1 88 U]

I thought they patched that already...

patch what?

http://i.imgur.com/I9qJwNW.jpg?1

[onehundredoctane]

My answer to the liberals asking "Why does anyone need a semi-auto?!"

We don't live in the wild west, criminals don't carry six shooters and bolt action rifles, our government doesn't either. It's 2013, technology advances and "magazine capacity" shouldn't even be in this discussion. That's like saying "your car can't have a gas tank that holds more than 15 gallons because a drunk driver would be able to drive farther. . ."

Bascially what the law makers are telling you is "You don't deserve to have 15, 20 or 30 chances to kill the motherfucker that just kicked your door in." Every firearms trainging course I've taken taught this one rule, that was to eliminate the threat. It might take 3 shots to stop a man, it might take 15 if they are fuck up on some shit. What's even funnier is the people who are telling you that you don't need this kinda of assurance are the ones walking around with with armed guards 24/7. . . out of touch much?!

On the topic of "assault rifles", this is a term made up by the media to describe any rifle that looks scary to them. It isn't a term used by gun makers, gunsmiths, gun owners, or law enforcement. For that matter any blunt object can be used to commit an assault, be it a baseball bat, steak knife, butter knife, rope, a dead animal, etc. So why don't we walk around talking about "assualt baseball bats"? Baseball bats are easier to get ahold of guns. . . why aren't they bad too?! Furthermore our 2nd Amendmant Right isn't to protect our love of hunting. But to prevent our government from turning on it's citizens.

Say it with me fokes,

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

[Corbic]

Meh...

The liberals argue that the National Guard is the "militia" and your right to join is your right "to bear arms".

As far as needing 15rds to kill an intruder... at that point you are adanger to your self and family. One shot, one kill.

You'll never win with these arguments.

My contention is, that even in a world devoid of crime, a utopia, l should able to own and collect my rifles and go to the range and crank off a few hundred rounds.

Why is it cool that in the name of public safety we can criminalize and demomize every gun owner as a homicidal maniac who only apposes gun control because they hate our President based on the fact he is black.

However, if a cop tries to frisk a gangbanger on a street corner, or if that cop stops a man caught speeding, and when he doesnt speak a lick of english the cop ask for some papers.... these "upstanding citizens" have just had constitutional rights shit all over.

[bc.]

That's like saying "your car can't have a gas tank that holds more than 15 gallons because a drunk driver would be able to drive farther. . ."
Very good analogy.

The liberals argue that the National Guard is the "militia" and your right to join is your right "to bear arms".
Yeah, except the national guard was founded many years after the constitution. I don't think we should be forced to put our selves in harms way to protect ourselves from harm.

[Corbic]

Yeah, except the national guard was founded many years after the constitution. I don't think we should be forced to put our selves in harms way to protect ourselves from harm.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's the liberal logic.

Personally I don't think the Guard should be allowed to leave their home state. There highest authority should be the Governor and not the President and the only way the respond to Federal REQUESTS is at the Governor s digression.

[onehundredoctane]

Meh...

As far as needing 15rds to kill an intruder... at that point you are a danger to your self and family. One shot, one kill.



Are you saying this is liberalogic?

One shot, to the brain stem. . . sure, and good luck with that one lol, 3 to the core, if they drop, fine, if not, one to the skull. Running those drills are the most fun too, call em "3 n 1s" :)



Personally I don't think the Guard should be allowed to leave their home state. There highest authority should be the Governor and not the President and the only way the respond to Federal REQUESTS is at the Governor s digression.

THIS I agree with!

[AFSil80]

Personally I don't think the Guard should be allowed to leave their home state. There highest authority should be the Governor and not the President and the only way the respond to Federal REQUESTS is at the Governor s digression.

Uhh, that IS how it works...the only time the national guard deploys is if their governor allows it. Then they get paid by the state AND the Federal govt. It's commonly referred to as "double dipping" and its how the Feds entice them into doing it.

[Corbic]

Are you saying this is liberalogic?

One shot, to the brain stem. . . sure, and good luck with that one lol, 3 to the core, if they drop, fine, if not, one to the skull. Running those drills are the most fun too, call em "3 n 1s" :)

And see how well that flies in most states when your being tried for manslaughter or even murder.

Only took one shot to kill Travon... didn't go to well, an that's even in a gun friendly state.

[Corbic]

Uhh, that IS how it works...the only time the national guard deploys is if their governor allows it. Then they get paid by the state AND the Federal govt. It's commonly referred to as "double dipping" and its how the Feds entice them into doing it.

Yes and no. As I stated they should be 100% independent of the Federal Government and not alloud to leave the state, ei: deploy overseas.

The States need to start taking back there sovereign rights. Example Guns and Drugs - that should be 100% States decision.

I also have to question the need for all these federal police we have. With modern communication its redundant and oppressive.

[K_style]

You're exactly right. They are trying to take the weapons out of the law abiding citizens hands. They are our birth given rights and were written into the constitution to allow people to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. I use guns for sport and for self defense. As do (as per recent poll) 57% of Americans. Yes there were 11000 deaths last year due to firearms. That is less than 1% of our population. They fail to mention that this number (12000) is the total of all fire arm related deaths including cops using their firearm in the line of duty and citizens utilizing their 2nd amendment right defending themselves and or their families.

Watch this video. Its 14 minutes but well worth the watch. He puts everything into perspective perfectly.

Piers Morgan Gets OWNED By Ben Shapiro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM)

That little guy OWNED that F face!!!!! LOL

[AFSil80]

Yes and no. As I stated they should be 100% independent of the Federal Government and not alloud to leave the state, ei: deploy overseas.

The States need to start taking back there sovereign rights. Example Guns and Drugs - that should be 100% States decision.

I also have to question the need for all these federal police we have. With modern communication its redundant and oppressive.

Agreed completely when it comes to the Fed police. It should be the US Marshal service and that's it. As for state sovereignty...the states have to quit accepting Federal funding, then they can tell the feds to go to hell. But as long as they take Federal tax revenue, the Feds own em.

[Homeboyx]

Meanwhile in Russia..

http://minimatefactory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ba0.jpg

[7RIFT0]

This isn't much of a debate when we all agree :) but yes the framers of the constitution would not be happy with where we are today. Separation of power and checks and balances were written for a reason!

[godsmack]

Piers Morgan needs to stfu and gtfo of our country. He's not even a citizen and decides to have debates on our laws and rights. I'd love to go on his show and punch him square in the testicles.

[K_style]

This isn't much of a debate when we all agree :) but yes the framers of the constitution would not be happy with where we are today. Separation of power and checks and balances were written for a reason!

I wish some Liberal should put his/her input here so we could actually debate..

this isn't fun.

[Dori240sx]

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

[HyperTek]

Heard 2 gun shots last night at separate times. Thought nothing of it, looked outside after the 2nd shot and saw some shadow walk by outside our fence. I figured if nothing goes down, then I won't worry about it.
This morning I learn that someone shot my neighbor's car , bullet hole in the trunk. Broke the rear windshield, went through the rear and driver's seat. Not cool at all.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552588_521320084579874_1171999114_n.jpg

[Corbic]

Car Accidents per Year: 6,500,000
Gun accidents per year 14,000

Car Fatalities in 2010: 32,885
Guns use in Homicide in 2010: 11,078
Guns used in Suicide in 2010: 19,200*
Guns fatal accidents in 2010: 1,000


Car Injuries in 2010: 2,240,000
Gun Injuries in 2010: 74,000

Alcohol related Car Fatalities: 10,228

Pedestrians killed by cars in 2010: 4,280

Pedestrians injured by cars in 2010: 70,000



Regardless you insure a car because they cost $30,000 and because you will likely be causing an accident. Guns cost $500-$2,000 and in your day to day life you are unlikely to damage your own gun or someone else's.


Most Gun deaths are suicide. The meda is now trying to wrap that number into the "gun violence" number and inflate it. Gun Violence has been on a dramatic downswing since the the 1960s and 1980's. Ironically, it's only since Obama has taken office that voilent crime and murder has been on the rise again.

Also, don't let Europe fool you, their homicide rates have been on the rise for the 20 years, it just had a significantly lower starting point. Homicide in America is now a gun issue, its a cultural issue. You have people wanting to kill other people - even without a gun, they will still find a way. The Thuggees of India killed thousands and thousands by simply strangling them with a towel.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/Thugs_Strangling_Traveller.jpg/595px-Thugs_Strangling_Traveller.jpg


* As for Suicide rates - who cares. These are people choosing to take their own livs. Would you rather they plow their car into oncoming traffic? Jump off a building? Take a baby for hostage and force the police to shoot them? If anything this just further highlights the need for mental health help in America. We're a sick country and trying to blame black guns is just fucking stupid. It's the symptom, not the cause.

[Corbic]

http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/florida.png

http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/england.png

http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/chicago.png
Even Chicago WAS on a downward trend... not anymore in the last 3 years.

http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/texas.png

http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/michigan.png



You notice how all these charts start to rapidly rise in the late 70's but then crash in the 90's?

Crack Cocaine Bitches. It's a combination of the drug wars, war on drugs and also, others have theorized Abortion. By the mid 90's is when the majority of unwanted babies after the legalization of Abortion happened would have bee in there 20's... and causing crime.

[Dori240sx]

Does anyone know when the executive orders are supposed to be voted on? Im not hearing any deadlines for when there supposed to make a decision...

[ineedone]

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

Hmm, a "foreign?" that is great. I am surprised your illiterate ass has even read the constitution... have you gotten past the 2nd amendment yet though? Just wondering.

No amendment is absolute turds. (Read that DC v. Heller case and even Scalia is for certain types of gun control) But we can all agree/disagree on how far is to far and what types of control are actually effective.

This is America, where everyone has the right to think for themselves and being anti gun is just as American as being pro gun!

[ineedone]

Does anyone know when the executive orders are supposed to be voted on? Im not hearing any deadlines for when there supposed to make a decision...

What? Executive orders are orders... they are signed and that is it.

By the way, can anyone tell me which one is the scary one that has all the RWNJs in all a tiff? most of these seem... eh...

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Here is a quote from forbes describing the executive orders It does not appear that any of the executive orders would have any impact on the guns people currently own-or would like to purchase- and that all proposals regarding limiting the availability of assault weapons or large ammunition magazines will be proposed for Congressional action. As such, any potential effort to create a constitutional crisis—or the leveling of charges that the White House has overstepped its executive authority—would hold no validity.

so really, what is the big deal? why is there so much bitching about nothing? Oh, black guy.

[slideslidegnarslide]

It's not about the guns. It is about the federal government abusing its power and taking our rights away. It's funny how people are so worked up over this and no one has anything to say about our constitutional right being abused by the thousands of surveillance drones flying over us. If you don't believe me look up one night. They can not fly more than 400 feet and can see through houses and cars.

I am a gun owner but won't be affect by this because I carry a small 9mm with a small clip. It's about our rights. Once they take this away all our other rights will be at risk. Did you know that now if you protest. A drone flys over the protest and takes face recognition and then you are added to a list of terrorist? Soon it will not only be the second amendment but our freedom of speech protest everything is at risk. This is a monumental time. If the government gets away with this we are going to loose everything. I actually wish I had the opportunity to move out of the United States. But I don't. So when this democracy falls and a state of Marshall law is enforced around the country all I'm going to say is I told you so.

[ineedone]

It's not about the guns. It is about the federal government abusing its power and taking our rights away. It's funny how people are so worked up over this and no one has anything to say about our constitutional right being abused by the thousands of surveillance drones flying over us. If you don't believe me look up one night. They can not fly more than 400 feet and can see through houses and cars.

What rights have you lost? I doubt you could name 1 right you have "lost." Please... there is no right to none surveillance (hence why police can follow you all day long just waiting for you to break a law - then pull you over). It becomes unconstitutional when they cross certain thresholds to obtain evidence (aka using a thermal camera to see inside the house) to use against you. Understandably, we live in an age of exponentially technological advances which makes many of lines that were traditionally easy to draw extremely grey and vague.


I am a gun owner but won't be affect by this because I carry a small 9mm with a small clip. It's about our rights. Once they take this away all our other rights will be at risk. Did you know that now if you protest. A drone flys over the protest and takes face recognition and then you are added to a list of terrorist? Soon it will not only be the second amendment but our freedom of speech protest everything is at risk. This is a monumental time. If the government gets away with this we are going to loose everything. I actually wish I had the opportunity to move out of the United States. But I don't. So when this democracy falls and a state of Marshall law is enforced around the country all I'm going to say is I told you so.

What? what are they taking away? If you are worried about protesting drones... then why the hell would you ever protest outside a government building... hey dipwads if you protest outside a federal government building, your shit is getting checked out! That has been happening since, well, the beginning of time? This is not a "monumental" time, your just a "monumental" nut case who thinks the black guys are coming to get you. Look at some real shit, like Syria, that is "monumental," that is a collapse of society, that is real fucking crazy government.

[1 88 U]

What rights have you lost? I doubt you could name 1 right you have "lost." Please... there is no right to none surveillance (hence why police can follow you all day long just waiting for you to break a law - then pull you over). It becomes unconstitutional when they cross certain thresholds to obtain evidence (aka using a thermal camera to see inside the house) to use against you. Understandably, we live in an age of exponentially technological advances which makes many of lines that were traditionally easy to draw extremely grey and vague.




What? what are they taking away? If you are worried about protesting drones... then why the hell would you ever protest outside a government building... hey dipwads if you protest outside a federal government building, your shit is getting checked out! That has been happening since, well, the beginning of time? This is not a "monumental" time, your just a "monumental" nut case who thinks the black guys are coming to get you. Look at some real shit, like Syria, that is "monumental," that is a collapse of society, that is real fucking crazy government.

What's your overall point?

[S14DB]

heAssC-3aMo

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Feinstein-Weapons-Ban-e1359047805173.jpg

[Corbic]

At that point why not just say what they really want.


"Ban all Firearms"

[ineedone]

What's your overall point?

That the RWNJ who are crying about their "rights" being taken away are stupid.

heAssC-3aMo

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Feinstein-Weapons-Ban-e1359047805173.jpg

Yes, Feinstein is a bit of a lefty loon. However, her bill wont pass. Even if it did it is unconstitutional so... cool beans?

At that point why not just say what they really want.


"Ban all Firearms"

Honestly, what do you think the realistic chances of that are?

[Corbic]

Honestly, what do you think the realistic chances of that are?

With this administration - very high.

[onehundredoctane]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552588_521320084579874_1171999114_n.jpg

Bwahahahaha, fuck that shit. IF something like this ever became reality there would be a revolt.

[ineedone]

With this administration - very high.

Hmmm... riiiiight. What has this administration done? I have seen gun rights (to a certain extent) expanded. I see that this administration doing much much much less on guns then the Reagan administration.

In 1986, [Reagan] signed into law the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which “banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that were not already registered on the day the law was signed.” He later backed the Brady bill, expressing support for “a seven-day waiting period before a purchaser could take possession of a handgun, an even more stringent restriction than the five day cooling-off period that was included in the final legislation, and less stringent than the 15-day cooling-off period he signed into law as governor of California.”
Read more at Andrea Mitchell: Reagan Supported Gun Laws; Gun Dude: Who, That Senile Old Man? (http://wonkette.com/497228/andrea-mitchell-reagan-supported-gun-laws-gun-dude-who-that-senile-old-man#09bx48jKa0iPMtKM.99)


Sooo... what is this gun grabbing administration really waiting for? Why not do it first thing and especially during the lame duck? Pretty ballsy move to wait till a 2nd term seeing as the election was suppose to be pretty close and all. Just saying... looks like you have really nothing to bitch about.


Bwahahahaha, fuck that shit. IF something like this ever became reality there would be a revolt.

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?

I read that something like 90% of all illegal firearms come from less than 1% of arms dealers. If only the ATF (who is suppose to be dealing with these problems) were allowed to the job that they are suppose to be doing I think a lot of these gun issues would not be around.

But hey, screw that, kill em all.

[bc.]

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?
Why should I fill out a form? Am I a watch list or something? Why do they need to know the kind of gun I have? What will any of these gun bans/laws do to lower violence?

The problem I see is that none of it makes sense to help do what they 'say' they want to do. It does make sense, however, as a step in confiscation much further down the road.

[usdm180sx]

Once they take away our right to bear arms then they can declare martial law and establish a dictatorship. Just like what hitler did

[K_style]

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

Tell that to that Piers Morgan Fuck face..

[Mofuhcka]

The only thing that pisses me off is that this whole gun control thing exploded because of Sandy Hook and Aurora and those types of mass murders that were recently committed. BUT where were all these people that want to get rid of all firearms at when Chicago, now known as Chiraq, exploded into gun violence? Not once have I heard anyone say ANYTHING about banning guns because young kids and young adults are being killed EVERYDAY in Chicago, in Detroit, hell even 20 min north of me in Stockton California. I have yet to hear anyone stick up for them. Just for the people trying to watch a movie or the kids that were just chillin at school.

The other thing that pisses me off, is how everyone is quick to get mad and blame every LEGAL, LAW ABIDING gun owner because of something a crazy, criminally minded person did with an illegally obtained weapon. Us gun owners who own them for protection, who got them legally, who exercise our 2nd Amendment right to own a gun, ALWAYS take the heat for something a criminal does illegally. Go fucking crack down on the illegal gun trade and gang violence, the people that are actually hurting this nation instead of us gun owners that have most likely not even have had to pull the gun out for any reason.

[ineedone]

Once they take away our right to bear arms then they can declare martial law and establish a dictatorship. Just like what hitler did

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

[usdm180sx]

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

I stand corrected on that part.

[Mofuhcka]

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

Either way, who was controlled and then nearly washed off the face of the earth? The Jews without guns

[ineedone]

Either way, who was controlled and then nearly washed off the face of the earth? The Jews without guns

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

[ineedone]

Why should I fill out a form? Am I a watch list or something? Why do they need to know the kind of gun I have? What will any of these gun bans/laws do to lower violence?

The problem I see is that none of it makes sense to help do what they 'say' they want to do. It does make sense, however, as a step in confiscation much further down the road.

Oh no a government list!!!! Did you vote??? because you are now on a list! OH NOOOOOOOOO

It makes sense because responsible gun owners are what we want in this country. When only 1% of arms dealers are supplying 90% of the illegal weapons - that seems to be a fairly simple way to figure out and stop that 1% right? a few pieces of paper and an extra few days for your boomstick is not going to lead to a government army taking away all your guns and ammo.

PS. If you are truly afraid of them taking your weapons... lets say that by some strange act of god they pass a bill saying NO MORE FIREARMS!!! how would that work logistically? The military is only 1% of the population and even they are split politically - so can not think the military would buy into that. Is it going to be the lefty loons who couldn't figure out how to fire a gun even if you taught them?

I am just wondering who you are actually worried about here... I got a tinfoil hat for you by the way!:drama:

[bc.]

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.
I think you may want to take another look at history buddy and see what happened to the Jews :rimshot:

[Mofuhcka]

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

Did I say that they would have been able to take out the whole Nazi military? No I didnt. If they had guns, they wouldnt have been gathered up into concentration camps and killed. They wouldve had some firepower to fight back at least for a little bit while other countries took notice and came to help. I can almost guarantee that if the Jews had guns there wouldve been no Holocaust and the death toll wouldve been much smaller.

Now how about the Colonies vs the British government?? Who won that battle?

[ineedone]

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy and see what happened to the Jews :rimshot:

You really could not look 3 more post down?

Did I say that they would have been able to take out the whole Nazi military? No I didnt. If they had guns, they wouldnt have been gathered up into concentration camps and killed. They wouldve had some firepower to fight back at least for a little bit while other countries took notice and came to help. I can almost guarantee that if the Jews had guns there wouldve been no Holocaust and the death toll wouldve been much smaller.

Now how about the Colonies vs the British government?? Who won that battle?

Wow... yeah, no. See the fact is that the Nazi party was peacefully voted into power. They also came against little to no resistance in perpetrating the holocaust. If the Jews had guns, they would have been shot dead on the spot instead of forced into labor camps. The world knew what was happening the entire time and allowed it to happen... so whether the Jews had guns or not would not have matter at all.

Again, the Nazi army overtook entire COUNTRIES that had ARMIES and it took THREE COUNTRIES with LARGER ARMIES and NUCLEAR WEAPONS to stop them. What would a minority of citizens been able to do against that same Nazi army who was hell bent on exterminating them? Yeah... nothing. Every Jew could have been armed to the teeth and it would not have made the slightest bit of a difference. What made the difference was when the rest of the world got involved.

Are you seriously comparing colonial times with WWII? Are you that simple?

[Corbic]

Hmmm... riiiiight. What has this administration done? I have seen gun rights (to a certain extent) expanded.


They passed health care without a single vote. They passed 3 multi trillion dollar spending bills.

[Corbic]

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

Nazi Military?

You mean the German police that round them up?

The Polish and French did not have guns. Europe has never had a strong history of gun ownership. Gun Ownership really grew in the great frontier and untamed "new world" where oppressive Governments had little control.

[Corbic]

Tell that to that Piers Morgan Fuck face..

He's not even an American.

He's opinion is about as valid as Osama Binladen's opinion on women in the workplace.

[bc.]

You really could not look 3 more post down?

browser refresh maybe would have helped, meh.

I still can't tell what you are actually arguing, or maybe you are just here to rouse the stables?

[fliprayzin240sx]

God, where the +posi rep at for Corbic...

I'm not pro or con gun...I'm in the middle. My mentality has always been, if somebody wants to hurt somebody, they will find ways to do so. Take away guns, they'll find the next best option, may it be hammers, baseball bat, run you over with their cars, etc...

[Corbic]

browser refresh maybe would have helped, meh.

I still can't tell what you are actually arguing, or maybe you are just here to rouse the stables?

I think he is one of Obama's cronies here to tell everyone "HEY, CALM DOWN, NOTHING TO SEE HERE! You can keep your guns and bibles". All the while they are doing everything possible to end gun ownership in America.

[7RIFT0]

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database. I heard a quote from Wayne Lapierre that states "There’s only two reasons for a federal list on gun owners: to either tax ‘em or take ‘em". And by that he means; in history, when a government tries to enact something such as this, the next step is taking our weapons.

What? Executive orders are orders... they are signed and that is it.

By the way, can anyone tell me which one is the scary one that has all the RWNJs in all a tiff? most of these seem... eh...



Here is a quote from forbes describing the executive orders

so really, what is the big deal? why is there so much bitching about nothing? Oh, black guy.

[ineedone]

They passed health care without a single vote. They passed 3 multi trillion dollar spending bills.

And somehow they still have not come to take your guns! They did vote on healthcare... it was debated for over 2 years. Just because the final bill was enormous and not many had full read it does not mean that it was just clumped together over night. You do realize that right? I mean healthcare was a major issue for a long time.

And all those other spending bills - passed by congress so... is your point that sometimes congress does things you do not like? just because you do not like it does not make it unconstitutional... and if it was it would be struck down in the courts... so... what are you trying to say exactly?

Nazi Military?

You mean the German police that round them up?

The Polish and French did not have guns. Europe has never had a strong history of gun ownership. Gun Ownership really grew in the great frontier and untamed "new world" where oppressive Governments had little control.

The SS, the brown shirts, etc. you know those guys were considered paramilitary forces...wait, you do know that right? The Nazi party had both a defense force as well as a paramilitary force. There was the Wehrmacht which was the military and then the different branches (luftwaffe, Waffen, etc. - if I remember correctly 10th grade history was awhile ago...) underneath it. Holy shit I did not think this was going to turn into history 101...



The Polish and French had an army right? The Brits had a military... and well... they got pooped on too. The Russians though... can you explain that? I guess the Russians had no history of gun ownership... yeah that is what it was... not that the Nazi's were an enormous fighting force that were ruthless, yeah that probably had nothing to do with it at all. How much derp derp do you have left? It has been a slow few days of work, but I really did not expect to have to teach you basic shit you should have learned even if you slept through basic history. Oh right, RWNJ - did Glenn Beck tell you real history or something?

[7RIFT0]

[QUOTE=HyperTek;5109063]Heard 2 gun shots last night at separate times. Thought nothing of it, looked outside after the 2nd shot and saw some shadow walk by outside our fence. I figured if nothing goes down, then I won't worry about it.
This morning I learn that someone shot my neighbor's car , bullet hole in the trunk. Broke the rear windshield, went through the rear and driver's seat. Not cool at all.

Did you have your gun to defend yourself and/or your family?

[K_style]

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database.

But list of gun owners is public record. Anyone can get it and look for who owns gun. At least here in Liberal state Oregon.

[K_style]

He's not even an American.

He's opinion is about as valid as Osama Binladen's opinion on women in the workplace.

That's why we tell him to Fuck off and leave this shit to American.

He came from the country where gun law is failed and violence has gone up significantly after government banned owning guns.

Fuck that.

This is AMERICA !!!!

[ineedone]

I think he is one of Obama's cronies here to tell everyone "HEY, CALM DOWN, NOTHING TO SEE HERE! You can keep your guns and bibles". All the while they are doing everything possible to end gun ownership in America.

"everything possible to end gun ownership in america"

fuck it I quit... you are right. The spooks will be at your door in a few minutes. I called Barry Obamz and alerted him that you had weapons. Get ready.

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database. I heard a quote from Wayne Lapierre that states "There’s only two reasons for a federal list on gun owners: to either tax ‘em or take ‘em". And by that he means; in history, when a government tries to enact something such as this, the next step is taking our weapons.

Well, you are wrong about people not wanting universal background checks. The universal background check gets HUGE acceptance in every poll (both gun owners and non gun owners).

You are already in list/databases so... ok? If you are on facebook, have ever voted, donated money politically, had a speeding ticket, have a bank account etc., you are on a list. Blame technology for that. So don't worry, they already know!

Wayne LaPierre is a douche who ruins every good argument responsible gun owners have. He is a self interested lobbyist for fire arm producers. He could give 2 shits about any regular gun owner. Again, the main reason for a federal "list" or a registry is because of this stat - ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books... sure some want smaller magazines some do not want assault weapons - I get both sides... but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it. How crazy does this sound, let the ATF enforce the laws they are there to enforce, that are already on the books...

Inform yourself - frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html)

[ineedone]

That's why we tell him to Fuck off and leave this shit to American.

He came from the country where gun law is failed and violence has gone up significantly after government banned owning guns.

Fuck that.

This is AMERICA !!!!

Holy Christ.

Leave it to American cheese!

BBC News - Scottish gun crime falls to 32-year low (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15445090)

Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state)

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

Not saying I agree with a total ban - in this country it could never happen - however, there are some lessons to be learned. Right? Fuck, they are worried about knife crime... FREAKING KNIFE CRIME.

[Mofuhcka]

but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it.

I can agree with you on that because drug control and immigration control havent done anything, maybe even made it worse. But its still the fact that they are trying to breach OUR rights that were given to us for that exact reason thats stated countless times, to protect ourselves and our families from a tyrannical government, as well as any other threat.

[Corbic]

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books... sure some want smaller magazines some do not want assault weapons - I get both sides....


That is one side. The other side is why are we not identifying and helping the mentally ill - as by and large they make up the "active shooters". Murder is Murder and as many have already said - if I can't shoot my cheating wife, I'll just....

Limiting magazines and "black guns" will do nothing to curb gun violence seeing it's only an average of two shots per crime used ing a gun related crime.



but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it.

How is it hard to enforce a magazines or black gun ban? How is it hard to enforce a gun confiscation program?

Knowing this Administration - they would just unilaterally create a whole new branch of government - more jobs, more approval, fuck yeah bigger government.


How crazy does this sound, let the ATF enforce the laws they are there to enforce, that are already on the books...


The AFT is not a gun regulator. They are tax collection agency who was supposed to collect taxes on guns, alcohol and tobacco. So it seems to me that would should just disband them already and let the IRS go back to dealing with that directly.

The only thing the AFT consistently does well is kill innocent civilians.

http://nstarzone.com/WACO.jpg

76 people where killed in Waco, 26 of them children, many infants. Who is banning the AFT from having "weapons of war"?


Good thing they shaped up since 1993 - wait.

Fast and Furious - where the AFT GAVE over 2,000 fire arms to the Mexican Cartels in the hopes that they will be collected at crime scenes so they can create some sort of Rico bullshit. These guns have now been recovered at the murder scenes of over 300 Mexican Civilians - but they don't count because their brown.

http://c2.nrostatic.com/uploaded/tmp/pic_giant_070612_C.jpg

Remember Fast and Furious (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/304835/remember-fast-and-furious-s-mexican-victims-deroy-murdock)

[ineedone]

You spelled ATF wrong...

[ineedone]

All I mean is I see why people would want to limit magazine size and I see the arguments that say that wont do much. Both have merit. Just depends on which angle you are pushing. Same for assault weapons... Guess that is crazy... you know to see both sides of the argument and think both sides are kinda right.

That is one side. The other side is why are we not identifying and helping the mentally ill - as by and large they make up the "active shooters". Murder is Murder and as many have already said - if I can't shoot my cheating wife, I'll just....

Limiting magazines and "black guns" will do nothing to curb gun violence seeing it's only an average of two shots per crime used ing a gun related crime.

Who was saying mental health is not part of the problem? This conversation is based not off a single shooting, but a mass shooting. No one can say, man, I am going to go massacre and murder 30 people with a baseball bat. Last time I checked we have no baseball bat school massacres. That is the major flaw in the argument that people will kill no matter what... it is true, but just how much firepower are we willing to allow people to kill with? I have no idea what the line is I am just saying that is a pressing question.


How is it hard to enforce a magazines or black gun ban? How is it hard to enforce a gun confiscation program?


Here, this is why presently, you cannot enforce any of those things Daily Kos: Must-see: Jon Stewart exposes how the NRA & GOP PREVENT the ATF from enforcing current gun laws (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/17/1179688/-Must-see-Jon-Stewart-exposes-how-the-NRA-GOP-PREVENT-the-ATF-from-enforcing-current-gun-laws)

Knowing this Administration - they would just unilaterally create a whole new branch of government - more jobs, more approval, fuck yeah bigger government.

Or.. they considered consolidating the ATF into the FBI... but yeah... BIG GUBMENT? A new branch of government? Hmm, like what? I would like to hear what you know about this...



The AFT is not a gun regulator. They are tax collection agency who was supposed to collect taxes on guns, alcohol and tobacco. So it seems to me that would should just disband them already and let the IRS go back to dealing with that directly.

You got what they are suppose to do wrong too... they are an enforcement arm of Justice that deals with, and get this Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. So that means any federal laws dealing with any of those things within their jurisdiction they get to enforce. Kind of like the DEA gets drugs, ICE gets immigration, etc. Treasury deals with taxes - which has its own Alcohol, Tobacco etc. arm. Wow, how crazy is that? I mean, shoot.


The only thing the AFT consistently does well is kill innocent civilians.


76 people where killed in Waco, 26 of them children, many infants. Who is banning the AFT from having "weapons of war"?


Good thing they shaped up since 1993 - wait.

Fast and Furious - where the AFT GAVE over 2,000 fire arms to the Mexican Cartels in the hopes that they will be collected at crime scenes so they can create some sort of Rico bullshit. These guns have now been recovered at the murder scenes of over 300 Mexican Civilians - but they don't count because their brown.



Well, not that I am defending Waco, but the Branch Doucheians did set fire to their own compound - which killed more people than the ATF did (notably all the children). However, if they are your peeps... then.. uh, ok?

Fast and Furious!!!! WHOA!!! Bush! You mean the US Government runs weapons to nefarious people!!! AHHHHHH IRAN CONTRA.

really man? That's your big slam? Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair)

Do some fun research on that. Guns for Drugs dog. Shit got real under Reagan. Just saying.

[ineedone]

Alright Ladies! it has been fun kicking the nest a bit. Check back in a few weeks when work dies back down. Stay off the koolaid.

[Corbic]

You spelled ATF wrong...

Administration of Fucking Terrorist. I spelt it right.

[Corbic]

Fast and Furious!!!! WHOA!!! Bush! You mean the US Government runs weapons to nefarious people!!! AHHHHHH IRAN CONTRA.

really man? That's your big slam? Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair)

Do some fun research on that. Guns for Drugs dog. Shit got real under Reagan. Just saying.

So what you are saying then is that the precedence is set and it's perfectly ok? You also conveniently confuse an attempt to fund rebels leading a rebellion against dictators we don't like....on a national policy level and a law enforcement agency hoping to rack up some points and prove it's relevance by arresting criminals they created.

[S14DB]

Holy Christ.

Leave it to American cheese!

BBC News - Scottish gun crime falls to 32-year low (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15445090)

Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state)

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

Not saying I agree with a total ban - in this country it could never happen - however, there are some lessons to be learned. Right? Fuck, they are worried about knife crime... FREAKING KNIFE CRIME.

He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

[7RIFT0]

Why will no one listen to me :( wahhhh

[Mofuhcka]

He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html)

Great example. Without guns people cannot protect themselves, which leads to higher violence rates. But I dont need to tell you guys that, just look at the chart

[ineedone]

Ok... for real, last post.


He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html)



Well, no. I replied with an article that cited the police chief of Scottland (or whatever) saying the most pressing violent crime they are dealing with is knife crime... Id rather face a knife then a gun. I think I have a better chance of living there.

FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts (http://factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/)

Hmm... we have more guns, yet we have more crime and oh noo... more homicide.

But among advanced countries, the U.S. homicide rate stands out. “We seem to be an average country in terms of violence and aggression,” says Harvard’s Hemenway. “What we have is huge homicide rates compared to anybody else.”

Here are better statistics about crime rates NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States (http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime)

Take a look at the Rape column. In the United states nearly 54% of rapes go unreported. Reporting Rates | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates)

So even these statistics are skewed. But hey, we have the most guns and looky looky the most crime. Total crimes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Crime (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes)

Anything else I am missing here?

[onehundredoctane]

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?




I'll spell this out for you since you seem to know everything related to firearms.

I have my concealed carry permit, this means I have taken the courses required, applied with the state, the state has performed a background, checked my mental health records thru ANY physician I have ever went to, this includes surgical consults, physicals, etc. Having my conealment means I can walk into any gun store, pawn shop, gun show, or sporting goods store and walk out with any (legally obtainable) firearm I want in the state of North Carolina. I deserve that trust that the state has entrusted me with. I am not a felon. I am not a sex offender and I appreciate being treated as a law abiding citizen. I had the forethought to obtain my conealment for my protection, the protection of my family. But there are others who don't.

Take a woman that finds out her husband has been cheating on her, she files for divorce, and then he begins to make threats against her or their children. (don't say this doesn't happen, because it does frequently) The woman in this situation hasn't had the forethought to obtain her concealment permit, by law she can not purchase a pistol for her protection without a wait period. She can purchase a shotgun or rifle without a wait period ( in the state of NC at least). Now you tell me which one fits in a purse? A pistol or a rifle? The typical waiting period for a concealment permit after filing for it is 90 days.


You're move.

[bc.]

...Again, the main reason for a federal "list" or a registry is because of this stat - ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books...

I don't understand how universal background checks would apply to someone trying to do harm, a criminal. Wouldn't they just buy one illegally?


Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

You used failzor and failasaurs in a sentence and you are 27 years old? How many cats do you have? :ugh:

[onehundredoctane]

I don't understand how universal background checks would apply to someone trying to do harm, a criminal. Wouldn't they just buy one illegally?


That's just it, the government is trying to convince the public that are scared of guns that this legislation will get "illegal guns" off of the streets. ITWON'T. This whole thing is just one big scare tactic.

[Mofuhcka]

That's just it, the government is trying to convince the public that are scared of guns that this legislation will get "illegal guns" off of the streets. ITWON'T. This whole thing is just one big scare tactic.

If anything its just gonna put more out there on the street. Supply and demand

[Corbic]

Hmm... we have more guns, yet we have more crime and oh noo... more homicide.



We have more blacks and mexicans too...

We have more cars...

We have more income...

We have more video games...

We have more McDonalds....

We have more WalMarts....

We have more Democrates...

We have more square miles....

We have more corn....

......correlation does not mean causation.

:picardfp:

[Corbic]

Take a woman that finds out her husband has been cheating on her, she files for divorce, and then he begins to make threats against her or their children. (don't say this doesn't happen, because it does frequently) The woman in this situation hasn't had the forethought to obtain her concealment permit, by law she can not purchase a pistol for her protection without a wait period. She can purchase a shotgun or rifle without a wait period ( in the state of NC at least). Now you tell me which one fits in a purse? A pistol or a rifle? The typical waiting period for a concealment permit after filing for it is 90 days.


You're move.

The 15 minute background check I've never had a problem with. Fill out the FFL form, they call the local LEO who verifies you have no convictions, outstanding warrants and are a legal state citizen...

Wait periods... I don't get... has anyone ever run into a gun store and said "I NEED A FUCKING GUN RIGHT NOW.... I GOTTA GO KILL SOMEONE!!".

I would almost say, anyone that is in such a panic and rush to get a gun to kill someone, that they NEED IT RIGHT NOW, would be visually a psychotic mess. At that point the shop could just call the 911.

Other wise... ok, gotta wait 30 days to kill that bitch ex-wife.. no biggie.

[1 88 U]

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

If I were a Jew during the holocaust I'd rather die with dignity, gun a blazing than burn in an oven.

All of those stats don't mean shit because America has way to many fucking guns to go back. Once you realize that gun proliferation is a fantacy in this country we can begin to address the real problems. Poverty, war on drugs, inadequate health/mental health system, poor education, decreased access to higher learning, access to the arts.

[7RIFT0]

That's just it, the government is trying to convince the public that are scared of guns that this legislation will get "illegal guns" off of the streets. ITWON'T. This whole thing is just one big scare tactic.

couldnt have said it any better

[usdm180sx]

They should do medical and criminal background checks for legit gun owners. If illegal gun owners are smart they wouldn't flash the fact that they have guns unless they are crazy or stupid. There is pretty much no way to regulate them.

[Corbic]

They should do medical and criminal background checks for legit gun owners. If illegal gun owners are smart they wouldn't flash the fact that they have guns unless they are crazy or stupid. There is pretty much no way to regulate them.

Huh? So why violate the rights of gun owners?

Do I get to do a background check on a women wanting an abortion?

Can we do back ground checks on voters?

[usdm180sx]

Mental health and gun ownership is a valid concern. I'm talking about new gun buyers but at the same time I don't feel safe knowing that there are mentally unstable gun owners out there. What happens next time I go to the range and some unstable gun owner decides to lose it? I'm sure he will get shot down but what if he takes an innocent person out before that happens?

[Corbic]

Mental health and gun ownership is a valid concern. I'm talking about new gun buyers but at the same time I don't feel safe knowing that there are mentally unstable gun owners out there. What happens next time I go to the range and some unstable gun owner decides to lose it? I'm sure he will get shot down but what if he takes an innocent person out before that happens?

You going to do hardly check ups? What if I've never been to a doctor in my life? Undiagnosed? What about devekoping issues latter in life?

Sounds like a mental health issue and is shoveling completely independent of gun ownership.

Buying a gun should not be the Troigger point for the government to commit you.

Also....ok your nuts and want a gun.... now what?

[usdm180sx]

You going to do hardly check ups? What if I've never been to a doctor in my life? Undiagnosed? What about devekoping issues latter in life?

Sounds like a mental health issue and is shoveling completely independent of gun ownership.

Buying a gun should not be the Troigger point for the government to commit you.

Also....ok your nuts and want a gun.... now what?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. This is just me, but people who are mentally unstable shouldn't be able to own guns.

Who said anything about being committed? They just wouldn't be able to own a gun. If you're mentally unstable and you want a gun too bad. Adam Lanza was mentally unstable and look what happened. So were the majority of the other shooters in the other incidents. Did you see the video the shooter posted from Virginia Tech? What about that father and son picking people off in DC?

You sound like you want everybody to be able to have a gun no matter what their state of mind and IMO that's not safe. Only RESPONSIBLE people should be allowed to own guns. What is there to argue?

[K_style]

Can we do back ground checks on voters?

That, at least check if they are eligible for voting though..

Well you get the idea..

[FaLKoN240]

What I find interesting are these:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#q=Gun+buybacks&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&source=univ&tbm=nws&ei=wnYIUd3VEeHi2QWw6IGoBQ&ved=0CC4QqAI&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.b2U&fp=4b19c8fad79212da&ion=1&biw=1440&bih=775

How often are gun buy backs happening in your area?

The state is buying up citizen's legal guns for $100 per rifle.

They're using the poor economic state and scare tactics to guilt legal gun owners into selling their guns for gas money. -_-

[Corbic]

that, at least check if they are eligible for voting though..

Well you get the idea..

thats violating their rights!! How dare you ask for id and discriminate and discourage thema!!!!

[Corbic]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. This is just me, but people who are mentally unstable shouldn't be able to own guns.


Define unstable? Should we do credit checks and employment checks as well. Does depression count as mental illness that would ban you from gun ownership? What about ADD? Autism? Social anxiety? Homosexuality? Nazis?


Who said anything about being committed? They just wouldn't be able to own a gun. If you're mentally unstable and you want a gun too bad. Adam Lanza was mentally unstable and look what happened. ?

Exactly. So you go in the store... they say "no gun for you"... then what? Your saying someone is to crazy to own a gun because they are a danger to society... so you just let that danger go? What happens when they get some fertilizer and diesel fuel? Also, Adam never bought a gun... he killed someone and took theirs.




You sound like you want everybody to be able to have a gun no matter what their state of mind and IMO that's not safe. Only RESPONSIBLE people should be allowed to own guns. What is there to argue?

Only responsible people should be aloud to vote... why does the country have a problem that? Only responsible people should be aloud to drink.. but we don't do nothing about that.

Define - responsible?

Where do you draw the line?

[usdm180sx]

Define unstable? Should we do credit checks and employment checks as well. Does depression count as mental illness that would ban you from gun ownership? What about ADD? Autism? Social anxiety? Homosexuality? Nazis?



Exactly. So you go in the store... they say "no gun for you"... then what? Your saying someone is to crazy to own a gun because they are a danger to society... so you just let that danger go? What happens when they get some fertilizer and diesel fuel? Also, Adam never bought a gun... he killed someone and took theirs.





Only responsible people should be aloud to vote... why does the country have a problem that? Only responsible people should be aloud to drink.. but we don't do nothing about that.

Define - responsible?

Where do you draw the line?

Unstable: Someone who is likely to harm themselves or others without a weapon.

It's easier to kill someone with a gun than with fertilizer

Exactly. Adam never bought a gun but look what he did. Like I said, there is no way to control that unless they do a mental health check for immediate family members too.

If an irresponsible person votes the damage won't immediately get someone killed. If an irresponsible person gets a gun the likelihood of someone getting killed sooner is more so.

Everything needs regulation or there will be complete chaos. Your posts seem to lean towards no regulation at all. It is impossible to have a society without laws in place. I am just trying to minimize casualties with sensible regulations.

Why do you feel that mentally unstable people should be allowed to own guns, anyway?

[bc.]

This is just me, but people who are mentally unstable shouldn't be able to own guns.
Or drive cars, right? I don't want anyone bipolar or on medication for depression behind the wheel. I would argue that anyone you feel shouldn't own a gun because of mental state should also not own a car or have a drivers license. People that drive 40mph in the fast lane or drive 6 feet from my bumper when I am going 70mph scare the shit out of me...

Exactly. Adam never bought a gun but look what he did. Like I said, there is no way to control that unless they do a mental health check for immediate family members too.
So now if someone has a brother who is retarded or 'unstable' they will also not be allowed to own a gun? Not sure what you are getting at. The only way I think I could agree with you is to increase penalties for those who indirectly supply a firearm to someone who commits a crime with it. Pending the fact that the firearm was not stored in a safe or something (if the dude drilled a lock to the safe to gain access... well, I don't know what you are supposed to do about that).



Who said anything about being committed? They just wouldn't be able to own a gun. If you're mentally unstable and you want a gun too bad. Adam Lanza was mentally unstable and look what happened. So were the majority of the other shooters in the other incidents. Did you see the video the shooter posted from Virginia Tech? What about that father and son picking people off in DC?
This approach of mental stability is a foolish way to solve anything. In statistics you would get an F because you are chasing the outliers while leaving the vast majority of the cases untouched. You want to lower gun violence, tackle the big situation first, example: gang violence. End of discussion. And until a politician actually says that, I will know they remain ignorant, stupid, or are chasing some other agenda.

[Corbic]

Unstable: Someone who is likely to harm themselves or others without a weapon.


So... how do you determine that. Do I need to have a psyche exame before I buy a gun? How are you going to prove the validity of that test? Make everyone take it for a few years and buy guns as normal, then go back and see how many of them killed someone?


It's easier to kill someone with a gun than with fertilizer


Adam killed 26 people, McVeigh killed 168.


Exactly. Adam never bought a gun but look what he did. Like I said, there is no way to control that unless they do a mental health check for immediate family members too.

So I can't buy a gun in Oklahoma because my cousin in Florida that is depressed?

What about my neighbor? I can't own a gun because I live in a rough neighborhood? I mean with people wanting to list gun owners online... then what?


Why do you feel that mentally unstable people should be allowed to own guns, anyway?

I've never said that. I've asked you many times what is "mentally unstable", how do you identify that and what do you do about it when you do find that.

Your buddy Adam was never labeled "mentally unstable"... he was never diagnosed... so even with new laws, he could have bought a gun.

[Corbic]

You want to lower gun violence, tackle the big situation first, example: gang violence. End of discussion. And until a politician actually says that, I will know they remain ignorant, stupid, or are chasing some other agenda.

But drug and gang violence kills black and brown children... children that no one give a shit about, even a black president.

Kill a bunch of white people in a movie theater or shoot some white kids at school and OMFG ban guns.

[usdm180sx]

Or drive cars, right? I don't want anyone bipolar or on medication for depression behind the wheel. I would argue that anyone you feel shouldn't own a gun because of mental state should also not own a car or have a drivers license. People that drive 40mph in the fast lane or drive 6 feet from my bumper when I am going 70mph scare the shit out of me...


So now if someone has a brother who is retarded or 'unstable' they will also not be allowed to own a gun? Not sure what you are getting at. The only way I think I could agree with you is to increase penalties for those who indirectly supply a firearm to someone who commits a crime with it. Pending the fact that the firearm was not stored in a safe or something (if the dude drilled a lock to the safe to gain access... well, I don't know what you are supposed to do about that).



This approach of mental stability is a foolish way to solve anything. In statistics you would get an F because you are chasing the outliers while leaving the vast majority of the cases untouched. You want to lower gun violence, tackle the big situation first, example: gang violence. End of discussion. And until a politician actually says that, I will know they remain ignorant, stupid, or are chasing some other agenda.

Not letting mentally unstable people drive cars actually isn't a bad idea. That would prevent a lot of alcoholics from getting drivers licenses. Those who drive without a license and get caught can get locked up. I got an A in stats btw lol. And if you think gang members are mentally stable you get an F in mental health. It's not foolish. It's actually really easy to implement. Just require a mental health check moving forward. And require all registered gun owners to get checked as well.

But it's obvious there are a lot of people on here who do not agree with me and to those of you I say: "I respect your opinion, so please respect mine."

[usdm180sx]

Your buddy Adam was never labeled "mentally unstable"... he was never diagnosed... so even with new laws, he could have bought a gun.

I never knew Adam so why do you call him my "buddy?"

[usdm180sx]

So I can't buy a gun in Oklahoma becase my cousin in Florida that is depressed?

Cousins are not IMMEDIATE family members

[usdm180sx]

So... how do you determine that. Do I need to have a psyche exame before I buy a gun? How are you going to prove the validity of that test? Make everyone take it for a few years and buy guns as normal, then go back and see how many of them killed someone?

There are a few established tests. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. Anything that identifies conditions where a person might hurt himself or others without a weapon. I don't really feel like googling them all right now but if you want I can later.

[Corbic]

Not letting mentally unstable people drive cars actually isn't a bad idea. That would prevent a lot of alcoholics from getting drivers licenses. Those who drive without a license and get caught can get locked up.

So how are they going to hold down a job and support their families? Don't we already have an overcrowding problem in our prisons? Now you want to fill them with depressed people who are trying to get to work so they can take care of their kids?

[Corbic]

There are a few established tests. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. Anything that identifies conditions where a person might hurt himself or others without a weapon. I don't really feel like googling them all right now but if you want I can later.

So what, you have to take a 4 hour test before buying a gun?

[Corbic]

Cousins are not IMMEDIATE family members

What is an "immediate" family member?

Someone that shares a residence? Someone related by birth or marriage? What if I'm buying that gun to protect myself from them...

What if I already bought a gun and them my wife goes fucking batty? Are the feds then going to come and take it from me? How would they even know?

[Corbic]

So how are they going to hold down a job and support their families? Don't we already have an overcrowding problem in our prisons? Now you want to fill them with depressed people who are trying to get to work so they can take care of their kids?

Not to mention that now you are putting barriers up that will prevent people from seeking treatment.

So I'm depressed, I hate my life.... but now I don't dare go to a doctor because you are going to take my license, take my guns.... I'll lose my job, and shit, while we're at it, why not just take my kids and pets as well?

What ever happen to patient + doctor confidentiality and de-stigmatizing mental illness?

We should be HELPING people get help to make them better... not punishing them for things beyond their control. :down:

[bc.]

Not letting mentally unstable people drive cars actually isn't a bad idea. That would prevent a lot of alcoholics from getting drivers licenses. Those who drive without a license and get caught can get locked up. I got an A in stats btw lol. And if you think gang members are mentally stable you get an F in mental health. It's not foolish. It's actually really easy to implement. Just require a mental health check moving forward. And require all registered gun owners to get checked as well.

But it's obvious there are a lot of people on here who do not agree with me and to those of you I say: "I respect your opinion, so please respect mine."
I do respect your opinion, this is good discussion without any pissing :hsdance:

Now back to the car thing. The mental health thing isn't going to premptively stop car accidents, this isn't gonna be some 'Minority Report' thing, it will be fought all the way through. The same will go for firearms.

I think gang bangers could easily pass as 'mentally healthy'. Their lives are dictated by the society they live in and what they do is rewarded by others they look up to, just like my boss rewarding me for getting those damn TPS reports in on time. We are, however, digressing.

[AFSil80]

An assault weapons ban will not get illegal guns off the street. Quite the contrary, most legal gun owners would probably ignore it.

I knew people who procured AK47's during the original ban. Creating a law won't stop the flow of guns. It won't stop the "mass murders" that so conveniently take place in gun free zones. What a noble concept.

[Mofuhcka]

But drug and gang violence kills black and brown children... children that no one give a shit about, even a black president.

Kill a bunch of white people in a movie theater or shoot some white kids at school and OMFG ban guns.

THIS. Kids and young adults are getting killed DAILY in Chicago and Detroit, yet I havent heard anyone talk about them. If you tackle gang violence, there goes a majority of the gun related deaths that happen each year.

[S14DB]

Ok... for real, last post.






Well, no. I replied with an article that cited the police chief of Scottland (or whatever) saying the most pressing violent crime they are dealing with is knife crime... Id rather face a knife then a gun. I think I have a better chance of living there.

FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts (http://factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/)

Hmm... we have more guns, yet we have more crime and oh noo... more homicide.



Here are better statistics about crime rates NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States (http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime)

Take a look at the Rape column. In the United states nearly 54% of rapes go unreported. Reporting Rates | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates)

So even these statistics are skewed. But hey, we have the most guns and looky looky the most crime. Total crimes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Crime (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes)

Anything else I am missing here?

We have more people. Look at per 100,000 figures.

[bc.]

We have more people. Look at per 100,000 figures.
I'm sure he has, but those figures don't lead him to any of the conclusions he is looking for so he finds others to post which he thinks do.

[usdm180sx]

That is definitely a problem. I've been doing a lot of research on conspiracy theories lately and one "secret society" has a solution. They will "reduce" the current population from 7 billion people down to 500 million through planned "wars and disasters" and implant the remaining population with RFID chips. These chips will contain information about EVERYTHING. Bank accounts, medical history, credit history, driving records, social security, GUN RECORDS, etc. The chip will be used to transact EVERYTHING. If you refuse to be plugged into the system you won't be able to buy food or do anything else. 500 million people is a lot more manageable. Coincidentally, I still think 9/11 and the Sandy Hook shootings were both staged, among other incidents.

This sounds crazy, but what other solutions are there? All we are doing is going back and forth over how this and that will or won't work but NO SOLUTION.

The thing that scared me is that the RFID chips will be planted either in the person's right hand or their forehead. Skip to 2:20 and listen if you don't want to watch the whole vid:

Mark Of The Beast the man who Designed the RFID Chip ! Part 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVyZ2_qN2MM)

And then I read THIS:

Revelations 13:16-18:
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

To me, this is too much of a coincidence. Anyway, I don't want to diverge from this discussion, but I think we need to look beyond just the topic of "gun control," and look at the topic of "total control." Google "New World Order."

[1 88 U]

THIS. Kids and young adults are getting killed DAILY in Chicago and Detroit, yet I havent heard anyone talk about them. If you tackle gang violence, there goes a majority of the gun related deaths that happen each year.

To decrease gang violence you must end the war on drugs, decriminalize and regulate drugs and expand impoverished youth opportunities.

[7RIFT0]

New news regarding NRA stand on gun control and national database/background checks. MILLER: The gun-show loophole myth - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/30/the-gun-show-loophole-myth/)

[Mofuhcka]

To decrease gang violence you must end the war on drugs, decriminalize and regulate drugs and expand impoverished youth opportunities.

This is true, but you know that no one is going to decriminalize drugs

[EDacIouSX]

But drug and gang violence kills black and brown children... children that no one give a shit about, even a black president.


yea right..... that explains why everyone freaked out when a bunch of white people chained a black guy to the back of their truck and dragged them in the streets to his death and explains why no one gave a shit when some black guys did the exact same thing to a white guy nearly 6 months later.

black guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

white guy: (it took me 10 minutes to find even any mention of this)

Federal Observer Articles - Federal Observer (http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=1570)


maybe no one really cares about it if its black on black, brown on brown crime but people give a shit when its white on black/brown but not black/brown on white crime

[Corbic]

maybe no one really cares about it if its black on black, brown on brown crime but people give a shit when its white on black/brown but not black/brown on white crime

Actually... that goes exactly into what I'm saying though.

A white guy kills a black guy and it's a hate crime - because we don't expect white people to do these sorts of things.

Black guy kills a white guy... what else is new?

Coloreds killing each other... what else is new?

White people killing each other.... JESUS FUCK SEND IN NATO!!!!

Just like our annual "omfg trial of the century". Scott Peterson - white -murders white wife. Casey Anthony - white - murders white kid...

Do you realize how many times I've seen a news blurb about some black woman microwaving their child? Shit barely hits the news circuit.


Why is it no one, even fucking King Barrack himself, gives a crap that 106 children where murdered last year in Chicago? I can only imagine how many more in DC and Detroit. But oh lordy, gotta do something now that 20 from fancy white Connecticut are dead!!


Lets not blame the shooter! He's white! Lets blame... OH THE GUNS! THIER BLACK!

[7RIFT0]

See its thinking like this that pisses me off. Wayne is 100 percent correct but the news and internet companies cut off the debate right after the senator has his rebuttle. I myself have been offered illegal guns before, stolen guns, or guns with out serial numbers. If I can get my hands on illegal guns then so can criminals. Dick Durbin, Wayne LaPierre Debate Background Checks At Senate Gun Violence Hearing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/dick-durbin-wayne-lapierre_n_2582924.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D263807)

[1 88 U]

This is the only proposal I would accept

1. Universal background checks for both private and P2P sales, through NICS. $10 per transfer.
2. Keep those records on file for 7 years (same as taxes) so you can('t) trace them.
3. Guns are guns, are guns (no more 922(x)) go through a background check and buy it.
4. CCW = drivers license. (take a course, pass the test, renew every x years)

[K_style]

I just heard another gun shooting @ school.... more excuses for Liberal to push this "Gun Control".

[mr.nismo.]

Actually... that goes exactly into what I'm saying though.

A white guy kills a black guy and it's a hate crime - because we don't expect white people to do these sorts of things.

Black guy kills a white guy... what else is new?

Coloreds killing each other... what else is new?

White people killing each other.... JESUS FUCK SEND IN NATO!!!!

Just like our annual "omfg trial of the century". Scott Peterson - white -murders white wife. Casey Anthony - white - murders white kid...

Do you realize how many times I've seen a news blurb about some black woman microwaving their child? Shit barely hits the news circuit.


Why is it no one, even fucking King Barrack himself, gives a crap that 106 children where murdered last year in Chicago? I can only imagine how many more in DC and Detroit. But oh lordy, gotta do something now that 20 from fancy white Connecticut are dead!!


Lets not blame the shooter! He's white! Lets blame... OH THE GUNS! THIER BLACK!

couldnt have said it any better. media is media. people are fucking crazy no matter what you look like. gun control? yeah fuckin right. how do fight a bad guy with a gun? a good guy with a gun. seriously. as bad as it sounds. classrooms need to be armed. or police presence at every school.

[Mofuhcka]

I just heard another gun shooting @ school.... more excuses for Liberal to push this "Gun Control".

Yupp just saw that, in Atlanta. All I heard was it was only one 14 year old kid shot in the head, rushed to hospital. Still a developing story.

[K_style]

Yupp just saw that, in Atlanta. All I heard was it was only one 14 year old kid shot in the head, rushed to hospital. Still a developing story.

Said the kid who got shot will make full recovery.

Also that school had metal detector but shooter was able to sneak it in if it happened inside of the school.

So the Metal detectors are not the answers either you ignorant Liberals !!!!

[1 88 U]

I think it happened outside the school and was stopped by an armed guard.

[WhipsGoneWild.net]

ok lets get this thread going here! First off where are all you left wing liberal gun banning obama c*ck suckin non american f*cks that don't know a god damn thing at?! I would love to hear your side why you want to sh*t on the constitution that built this country. If you immigrated here because your country banned guns GO BACK this is the US get used to OUR WAY. If your on welfare WHY are you allowed to VOTE to tell taxpayers how to spend their hard earned dollar?? We paid for our education to better ourselves but yet you lazy pieces of sh*t want a piece of the pie. Why ban guns?! a kid goes in to a school and uses a baseball bat to knock someone out is that the end of MLB?? What if he stabs someone with a fork?! What about all of these medications that state may cause suicide?! Lets ban guns but its ok to legalize marijauna makes sense lets have everyone drugged up! Cigerettes cause cancer and kill people but yet thats legal! Guns do not kill people why cant you liberal minded people understand that? If you ban guns people will find other means to kill.. it will be like other countries there will be more bombings which isnt hard to make and it will cause more fatalities than shootings! I can't stand all of this biased media BS! Government control! Population control! Ok lets go back in to history and look at Hitler... lets take control of the auto industries..health care..."To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens"

idc who you are even US military you try to take my firearms im not going down without a fight you military better wake up from being brain washed and focus not on war in other countries but take care of your own reread the oath you took [I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.]

Communists for gun control;
Adolf Hitler
Joseph Stalin
Benito Mussolini
Mao Tze Tung
Pol Pot
Fidel Castro
Hugo Chavez
Karl Marx
Barack Obama
Ted Kennedy
Nancy Pelosi
Diane Feinstein

Americans promote gun rights to ensure freedom;
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Patrick Henry
John Adams
George Mason
James Madison
William Pitt
Noah Webster
George Orwell
Dalai Lama
Richard Henry Lee

If you want to argue me have your facts straight I will tear you apart. If you want to live your life by letting the government tell you what to do this isnt the country for you. STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND FORM A REVOLUTION

Lets not forget the 2nd amendment;
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/cdubw7/molonlabe_zps751e5b00.jpg

[WhipsGoneWild.net]

We just had a huge gun show cancelled since liberals didnt want vendors to bring high cap mags and military style rifles so cabelas, gander mountain, smith & wesson pulled out..NRA even had a booth there and said they will not support a show that limits certain firearms! well thats $80 mil loss!

[onehundredoctane]

Something else I think the lib-tards haven't considered is how many jobs will be lost due to firearms companies relocating. South Carolina is trying hard to get Remmington to relocate all of their manufactoring from NY to SC. If I were Remmington I would do it in a heart beat, show those legislators that if they want to remove peoples rights, then employers will remove the jobs.

The only thing I really hate, is that the ammo wasted in the shootings you hear about on the news isn't used on these liberal dickholes that are pushing their communist agenda on us. Fienstien first, then the rest.

[1 88 U]

http://i.imgur.com/7jc8bXg.jpg

[onehundredoctane]

The WH released that photo, then says "this photo is not to be tampered with"

WHY? It was obviously already photoshopped to begin with.

[AFSil80]

The WH released that photo, then says "this photo is not to be tampered with"

WHY? It was obviously already photoshopped to begin with.

Kinda infringing on the 1st Amendment, ain't it?

[Corbic]

Kinda infringing on the 1st Amendment, ain't it?

It's cool, if your not in line with this administration then you should have no rights.

[Nidd]

Again, the Nazi army overtook entire COUNTRIES that had ARMIES and it took THREE COUNTRIES with LARGER ARMIES and NUCLEAR WEAPONS to stop them. What would a minority of citizens been able to do against that same Nazi army who was hell bent on exterminating them? Yeah... nothing. Every Jew could have been armed to the teeth and it would not have made the slightest bit of a difference. What made the difference was when the rest of the world got involved.

Are you seriously comparing colonial times with WWII? Are you that simple?

Nuclear weapons were never used on Germany, the war was over for them before we nuked Japan. Anyway you look at it, Jews were disarmed for a reason. To make killing them easier.

As for all the assault rifle ban crap. I constantly hear people asking "why do we need them" yet no one can give a good answer as to why we don't. The thing they always say is "well this mass shooting wouldn't of happened" or something like that. That just starts a entirely different argument on Gun Free Zones.

[S14DB]

This is tragic:
Chris Kyle Dead: Author Of 'American Sniper' Shot And Killed At Gun Range (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/chris-kyle-dead_n_2608772.html)

Oh look you can't control controlled conditions.

[onehundredoctane]

Kyle passing at the hand of a Marine is just sinister, and the fact that that Marine claims to have PTSD, has written a book about the disorder adds that many more questions.

[1 88 U]

This is tragic:
Chris Kyle Dead: Author Of 'American Sniper' Shot And Killed At Gun Range (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/chris-kyle-dead_n_2608772.html)

Oh look you can't control controlled conditions.

I fail to see what this has to do with gun control other than "see, people get killed with guns. Ban them!"

[Corbic]

I fail to see what this has to do with gun control other than "see, people get killed with guns. Ban them!"

Exactly. This is a murder issue, not a gun control one.

[collegekid]

^^^^Exactly.

There was a picture I saw a while ago, I can't find it for the life of me right now but I will try and explain it.

There are four scenes depicted.

1- A man stabs another man to death. A third person sees him and says "You stabbed him wtf is wrong with you?"

2- A man beats another man to death with a baseball bat. Third person says "you killed him with a baseball bat, wtf is wrong with you?"

3- Same story, except it was with a hammer or chainsaw or something.

4- This time, the guy shoots the other guy. The third person says "Holy shit you shot him, we should really do something about guns"

[S14DB]

I fail to see what this has to do with gun control other than "see, people get killed with guns. Ban them!"

The whole keep them locked up at sporting clubs and ranges cause they'll be safe there.

[AFSil80]

Exactly. This is a murder issue, not a gun control one.

Or as Ann Coulter said on Hannity last night...The problem is that the liberals won't do anything about the mentally ill.

[onehundredoctane]

They don't want to have a sit down talk about mentally ill individuals, people get more butt hurt more quickly when you bring their family members into something. Somewhere along the line you'll have someone say that their son, daughter, cousin, etc, isn't mentally ill, but at the same time they will try to cover up the fact that this individual isn't enrolled in public schools because the school system can't work with students one on one and on top of that the individual is too violent. If the person caring for that individual is a Second Amendment supporter I feel sorry for them, they are in the toughest position of all. They will naturally side with the famliy member, but where does their personal safety come into play? They obviously can't have a firearm easily accessable for personal defense. . . right?

But lets get to the more important part of the conversation. What does Obama consider "mentally ill"? Someone that doesn't side with his views? Someone that supports the Constitution? The term "mentally ill" is being used as a blanket term and any legislation that is dreamed up won't sure the problems that plauge our society today. We have actors playing killers in movies, but then they come out and say "we need to save our children by banning certian guns" WHY?! Pistols kill more people in the U.S. every year, yet the Liberal twats want to ban what they call "assault rifles" and "weapons of war". A lot of other people have made this same point, but let me repeat. A semi-automatic rifle is not a weapon of war. A belt fed 50 cal., grenades, rocket propelled grenades, landmines, claymores, mortars, surface to air missles, heat seeking missles, tomahawk missles, apache helicopters, flame throwers. . . those are weapons of war.

[AFSil80]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/cmuthard03/d09faedd8bd5940d1f5e66b9c82d7e11_zps3b4c227e.jpg

[Mofuhcka]

Piers Morgan gets angry after losing Gun Control debate and throws his notes towards his guest ! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2btKEnfuA4)

Ret. Marine Joshua Boston vs Piers Morgan Gun Control Debate - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NMwjJQfp0)

GOA's Larry Pratt DESTROYS CNN's Piers Morgan on CT Shooting - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9z1wfgNf9E)

Piers Morgan Gets Butt Kicked by Ted Nugent for Trying to Stranglehold 2nd Amendment - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0kANlBAfs8)

Why Piers Morgan HASNT quit his job yet, or should I say why the fuck does he have that job, I dont know. He is the most ignorant bastard Ive ever seen. Not only does he know he is wrong, he wont let anyone else talk because he know he is gonna get schooled. Im surprised no one has reached across the table and knocked him the fuck out...

[1 88 U]

Or as Ann Coulter said on Hannity last night...The problem is that the liberals won't do anything about the mentally ill.

Because the mentally ill that flip and turn violent is extremely rare. A regular person that gets angry or scared and shoots someone is far more likely than a psychotic break . Somethings you cannot stop in a society.

[Mofuhcka]

Forgot this one too..

Piers Morgan Gets OWNED By Ben Shapiro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM)

And I cant stand Rosanne Barr AT ALL..

Ted Nugent Bitch Slaps Roseanne Barr DOWN - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St10cjrwydo)

[S14DB]

Because the mentally ill that flip and turn violent is extremely rare. A regular person that gets angry or scared and shoots someone is far more likely than a psychotic break . Somethings you cannot stop in a society.
Both sides don't want to touch the Mental Health issues. One side is the Stigma and branding people crazy. The other is the total lack of Mental Health Care. Which bleeds into health care debating. Slippery slope none of them want to get on.

In other news CC is legal in Arkansas churches.

and..

http://wfsb.images.worldnow.com/images/20967357_BG1.jpg

[Corbic]

Because the mentally ill that flip and turn violent is extremely rare.

But if they are the ones that shoot up a school full of kids every 6 months...


A regular person that gets angry or scared and shoots someone is far more likely than a psychotic break .

Not sure what you are getting at with the "Scared" comment, but someone that is "angry" or "Raging" (catching a lover cheating on you) is most likely going to still commit homicide even without a gun. Knives, fits, blunt objects, cars... just because you don't have the best tool for the job doesn't mean you'll not finish the job.


Besides, the primary user of gun violence is not raging scared people, but gang members, criminals and drug dealers/addicts. I'm sure you will find most gun crime is simply tied to another crime - dealing, stealing, gambling, ect.


Somethings you cannot stop in a society.

So why punish the rest of us? Just admit that we have sick people and should accept 20-50 people killed each year in a mass shooting.

[Corbic]

Both sides don't want to touch the Mental Health issues. One side is the Stigma and branding people crazy. The other is the total lack of Mental Health Care. Which bleeds into health care debating. Slippery slope none of them want to get on.

In other news CC is legal in Arkansas churches.

and..

Honestly lets break this down.

Crazy as fuck people kill a total of 20-60 people a year in a while crazy shooting spree... in a country of 320 MILLION people.

40 to 60. Thats it.


That, in no way is a valid reason to change gun laws when up until recently everyone was cool with the 8-13k a year killed in "normal" gun violence.

This is a cultural issue. This is a drug issue.

Americans are more violent then our western counter parts. We beat up more people. We strangle more people. We rape more people. We kill more people... with and without guns.

[K_style]

Piers Morgan gets angry after losing Gun Control debate and throws his notes towards his guest ! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2btKEnfuA4)

Ret. Marine Joshua Boston vs Piers Morgan Gun Control Debate - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NMwjJQfp0)

GOA's Larry Pratt DESTROYS CNN's Piers Morgan on CT Shooting - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9z1wfgNf9E)

Piers Morgan Gets Butt Kicked by Ted Nugent for Trying to Stranglehold 2nd Amendment - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0kANlBAfs8)

Why Piers Morgan HASNT quit his job yet, or should I say why the fuck does he have that job, I dont know. He is the most ignorant bastard Ive ever seen. Not only does he know he is wrong, he wont let anyone else talk because he know he is gonna get schooled. Im surprised no one has reached across the table and knocked him the fuck out...

That guy just won't quit..

Asking every same questions and gets same answers but keep just asking more..

[1 88 U]

I'm laughing at anyone that can't see Piers Morgan is trolling the fuck out of America. Mr. "I just don't understand why anyone would need and AR-15, with 3 rounds" after a hundred people intelligently explained to him why.

[Corbic]

I'm laughing at anyone that can't see Piers Morgan is trolling the fuck out of America. Mr. "I just don't understand why anyone would need and AR-15, with 3 rounds" after a hundred people intelligently explained to him why.

I don't see why anyone needs to buy a can of Soda with more then 6oz of cola in it.

[Mofuhcka]

That guy just won't quit..

Asking every same questions and gets same answers but keep just asking more..

Lol but he asks a question, the person starts answering, then he cuts in with "Here let me, let me, let me ask you this.."

I'm laughing at anyone that can't see Piers Morgan is trolling the fuck out of America. Mr. "I just don't understand why anyone would need and AR-15, with 3 rounds" after a hundred people intelligently explained to him why.

He alwayssssss talks about AR-15s because they have been involved with the last mass shootings. But any other "assault rifle" is ok.. Like switch it up man.

On another note, WHY does he feel like he can shit on OUR rights? Go back to Britain ya fuck, have fun with all the crime (caused because of the gun control laws) that you never mention and never let anyone else menton

[S14DB]

Honestly lets break this down.

Crazy as fuck people kill a total of 20-60 people a year in a while crazy shooting spree... in a country of 320 MILLION people.

40 to 60. Thats it.


That, in no way is a valid reason to change gun laws when up until recently everyone was cool with the 8-13k a year killed in "normal" gun violence.

This is a cultural issue. This is a drug issue.

Americans are more violent then our western counter parts. We beat up more people. We strangle more people. We rape more people. We kill more people... with and without guns.
I don't think it's a gun issue as a cultural issue. I find that the people that want to ban guns usually want to ban or restrict other things too.

I don't agree on infringing on other peoples rights/happiness to make yourself fell better or more comfortable.

We are more apt to not help people or throw them in a loony bin. Then help them be functioning members of society.

Easier to keep arresting them and making money putting them through the system over and over. Take all their rights away so all they can do is commit crimes and you have a viscous cycle.

Ultimately it is the person being violent not the tool they choose to use to commit the violence. Restricting access to to one of many ways to commit violence doesn't fix the root problem. Just moves it around like a shell game.

Still first world problems comparatively.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

[collegekid]

Seeing as they are probably going to pass some kind of legislation in the near future, (New Jersey already bans guns with more than 1 bullet iirc) what do you guys suggest noobies like me to do? I want to have atleast something in my house (we live in a good neighborhood which has been a target for home invasions in the past few years and my dad owns a business and comes home with 3 or 4 thousand in cash every night).

I just want to own a medium size pistol (same thing that the police has, maybe a little bit of an upgraded version). I'm not looking for an AK or a Tec9 or whatever the hell they call them. Can someone point me to a particular forum or should I just join any Gun forum? I have talked to police officers (who sound like no one should have a gun), gun shops (who pretty much just want to sell me shit that probably has been sitting in their displays for 4 years), and gun enthusiasts (who sound like they would shoot anything that moves on their property). I can't seem to find a person who just has a gun and isn't fucking paranoid about aliens and shit.

Sorry for the thread derailment. Maybe someone can pm me

[Corbic]

For home defense?

12 gauge shot gun. Standard semi.

Far more accurate in the dead of night, intimidating, easy to use and low risk of over penetration.


If you want a hand gun I suggest a full-size Double-action revolver for the home.

No messy magazines, stove piping, safeties or remembering to rack a round. Just pull and bang.

If you can't defend your self with 6 rounds your just putting everyone around you in danger because you are not aiming - just shooting.


Take a safety course. Put at least 300 round down range with it. Factor this in with your purchase price.

$75 course
$125 ammo + range fees
A typical DA wheel gun will be ~$700 new.

Don't get hung up in caliber arguments. Your can get special "hot loads" for actual carry in place of the cheap, ineffevtive "range" ammo.

[collegekid]

Thank you for the quick and informative response Corbic. Money isn't the issue, just getting it done properly and safely is my issue. I was planning to go to a gun range and practice, as well as properly storing the weapon too.

This is good, I wont need that huge of a gun cabinet/locker thing. Thanks again sir

[bc.]

Ask your gun questions here: http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/181481-zilvia-gun-thread.html

[1 88 U]

For home defense?

12 gauge shot gun. Standard semi.

Far more accurate in the dead of night, intimidating, easy to use and low risk of over penetration.


If you want a hand gun I suggest a full-size Double-action revolver for the home.

No messy magazines, stove piping, safeties or remembering to rack a round. Just pull and bang.

If you can't defend your self with 6 rounds your just putting everyone around you in danger because you are not aiming - just shooting.


Take a safety course. Put at least 300 round down range with it. Factor this in with your purchase price.

$75 course
$125 ammo + range fees
A typical DA wheel gun will be ~$700 new.

Don't get hung up in caliber arguments. Your can get special "hot loads" for actual carry in place of the cheap, ineffevtive "range" ammo.

Shotgun myths
Buckshot doesn't over penetrate Ammunition Drywall Penetration Analysis Test (Adpat) (http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-(Adpat))

[mr.nismo.]

Thank you for the quick and informative response Corbic. Money isn't the issue, just getting it done properly and safely is my issue. I was planning to go to a gun range and practice, as well as properly storing the weapon too.

This is good, I wont need that huge of a gun cabinet/locker thing. Thanks again sir

apu, just get a glock 22, easy to shoot, clean, and its safety disengages as you pull the trigger, shotgun isnt always the best in tight spaces. idk about where you live but in cali Overal length is at least 30 inches for shotgun/rifle. thats a big weapon to maneuver in a house

[Corbic]

Shotgun myths
Buckshot doesn't over penetrate Ammunition Drywall Penetration Analysis Test (Adpat) (http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-(Adpat))

Flawed test. Walls are not normally hollow and there is usually furniture, clothing ect on either side. Also a few stray pellets are less likely to be fatal then a few stray rounds.

Honestly, you can get rock salt as well, might even help in a self defense case because you can prove you where limiting the amount of force you where using. Nobody is getting up after a blast of rock salt from 5 ft away, assuming it didn't kill them.

[bc.]

SANDY HOOK FATHER OWNS CONGRESS - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXPlCjr0Vw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[Corbic]

http://fxn.ws/UeGi2X
Let's ban 3D printers and gun powder now!

[VNG704]

I was wondering how you guys felt about Alex Jones. Crazy conspiracy theorist or prophet? I think he makes a lot of sense but is extreme. I'm on the fence. Either he's right and if we over look what he talks about then we're s.o.l. or he's a total loon. That or he's trying very hard for ratings. Military & Police React to Obama's Total Gun Confiscation Plan - YouTube (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 Dc6lI3nAPMCo&h=BAQFdTaL3)

EDIT: did a search and just saw the sandy hook conspiracy theory thread.


Was thinking earlier today, our govt is trying to do to us what they do to n. Korea, China, etc... take their weaponry away. I get that nukes are different from AR/hi cap mags etc... but it's really the same thing if you look at it from a bigger picture. How do you anti gun control guys feel about the US trying to stop other countries' advancement in weaponry? I can agree with a ban of any weapon if it's banned from everyone. For example, stop N. Korea's testings of nukes or whatever is they're testing IF we relinquish or stop our own testing. Ban our semi auto weapons and hi cap magazines if the govt/police/ etc... ban theirs too. Makes since right?

[onehundredoctane]

Crazy conspiracy theorist or prophet? I think he makes a lot of sense but is extreme. I'm on the fence.

Pretty much how I feel. He makes sense to a point then goes too far and sounds crazy. I don't really pay him much attention as a result.

[1 88 U]

If you are in Washington state you better get on the phone now.

e: Recap for WA voters: Senate Bill 5737 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bill
docs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5737.pdf) would ban the sale or transfer of any gun with a detachable magazine. Grandfathered guns would be required to be kept in a safe and subject to inspection by the local sheriff. You'd have the option of turning your guns in to a law enforcement agency for destruction.

Sounds bad? It is. Will it pass? Who can say? Spike it into the grave to make sure.

Find your state senator and representatives (http://app.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/) and call them. Email if you want, but call. Call Governor Inslee's office as well: 360-902-4111

[imotion s14]

I own firearms to commit homicide.

[onehundredoctane]

Nazifornia trying to ban "assault shot guns" WHO THE FUCK COMES UP WITH THIS SHIT?!

They should just come out and say it, they're trying to ban the Tarus Judge and similar revolvers that will shoot shotgun shells.

I hate to say it, but if I lived in Califuckya I would probably go postal like Dorner.

[1 88 U]

So sorry for you CO folks. They just past universal background checks, ended campus carry and implimented a 15 round mag limit. Magpul has promised to move their opperations out of state. I guess with all of that new pot revenue the state government said "don't let the door hit you!"

Gun control; coming to a State near you!

Seriously, stop wining about LIEberals this and that and start getting active.

[turbobrick]

This is a cultural issue. This is a drug issue.

Americans are more violent then our western counter parts. We beat up more people. We strangle more people. We rape more people. We kill more people... with and without guns.

I agree with this.


Also, I know its easier to say, but not all liberals are anti gun. I consider myself a liberal on most issues, however I think people should be able to own whatever guns they want.

[Tearlessj]

For home defense?

If you want a hand gun I suggest a full-size Double-action revolver for the home.

No messy magazines, stove piping, safeties or remembering to rack a round. Just pull and bang.

If you can't defend your self with 6 rounds your just putting everyone around you in danger because you are not aiming - just shooting.


I don't really agree here. There is a reason why no agency's use revolvers. Messy magazines? What messy about it? That it can hold more than 6 rounds? I don't have a safety on my gun. My semi-auto is always loaded and ready to go. You can always get a DA or DA/SA semi-auto handgun if you prefer.

What if they're are 3 intruders and you get into a fire fight? I'm sure as hell you would rather have a semi-auto with a 16 round mag and the ability to reload extremely quickly.

That's like saying you would rather be on the dis-advantage because it is simpler.

[Corbic]

I don't really agree here. There is a reason why no agency's use revolvers. Messy magazines? What messy about it? That it can hold more than 6 rounds? I don't have a safety on my gun. My semi-auto is always loaded and ready to go. You can always get a DA or DA/SA semi-auto handgun if you prefer.

What if they're are 3 intruders and you get into a fire fight? I'm sure as hell you would rather have a semi-auto with a 16 round mag and the ability to reload extremely quickly.

That's like saying you would rather be on the dis-advantage because it is simpler.

What happens that one time you forgot to rack a round?

What happens when that first casing stove pipes?

What happens when that striker breaks?

I know these are all statisticly next to impossible but so is a raging gun fight with three people in your house at 3am exhange 500 rounds.

There is still a lot of debate on cops having pistols. Accidentally discharges are up 500%, accuracy is way down, shots fired is way up and weapon failures are up.

Panicked people tend to empty there weapon...dumbing 6rds is often better than dumping 15 into god knows where.

Additionally even if you have 3 attackers - 2rds each is more than enough.

[1 88 U]

There are statistics that say ccw holders have a better hit ratio than cops. I think because most ccw's are hobbyist that practice regularly.

I think that LEO's should not be given exceptions. If NY wants a 7 round limit so should the police.

[K_style]

There are statistics that say ccw holders have a better hit ratio than cops. I think because most ccw's are hobbyist that practice regularly.

I think that LEO's should not be given exceptions. If NY wants a 7 round limit so should the police.


Doesn't matter if they limit to 7 or 5 or whatever,

Criminals will have an access of larger capacity magazines from other 49 states and from Mexico to go to NY to shoot.

It is definitely the stupid law by liberals who hates guns and trying to disarm citizens.

[1 88 U]

Looks like Biden agrees with Corbic

Biden: 'Buy a Shotgun! Buy a Shotgun!' | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-buy-shotgun-buy-shotgun_702989.html)

[Corbic]

Looks like Biden agrees with Corbic

Biden: 'Buy a Shotgun! Buy a Shotgun!' | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-buy-shotgun-buy-shotgun_702989.html)

Har har har...

He is trying to justify banning AR15s and other magazine based weapons by saying a double barrel shot gun is acceptable. I bet if you say you wanted a Saiga, Spas or Moss-Berg he'd say fuck no.


I personaly don't believe an AR or Pistol would be the most ideal weapon for home invasion, however I think the whole "self-defense" and "hunting" rationalize / justifications are bullshit.

Just like SUVs and sports cars; I should not be forced to justify to anyone why I want a AR-15.

I want one because they are cool, badass and fun to shoot. /end

Why do I need to say more than that?

[1 88 U]

Har har har...

He is trying to justify banning AR15s and other magazine based weapons by saying a double barrel shot gun is acceptable. I bet if you say you wanted a Saiga, Spas or Moss-Berg he'd say fuck no.


I personaly don't believe an AR or Pistol would be the most ideal weapon for home invasion, however I think the whole "self-defense" and "hunting" rationalize / justifications are bullshit.

Just like SUVs and sports cars; I should not be forced to justify to anyone why I want a AR-15.

I want one because they are cool, badass and fun to shoot. /end

Why do I need to say more than that?

I want one because it is the closest thing to an M4. You know the weapon of choice for our military, swat, trunk of many police officers. If the government thinks that civilians shouldn't own it than neither should any agency operating on American soil.

[bc.]

If the government thinks that civilians shouldn't own it than neither should any agency operating on American soil.
yepppppppp

[Corbic]

I want one because it is the closest thing to an M4. You know the weapon of choice for our military, swat, trunk of many police officers. If the government thinks that civilians shouldn't own it than neither should any agency operating on American soil.

Which ironically goes back to the argument of "when the framers wrote the constitution....no machine guns existed"

However when the framers quote that, the average American civilian carried a musjet far superior to the standard issued fire arms of European militaries.

A Kentucky flitlock was lighter, and had triple the accuracy and range of the obsolete Brown Bess.

Police in England were also forbidden from casting firearms in the 1800's as concessions for the increasing fire arm regulation s in England.

[1 88 U]

Which ironically goes back to the argument of "when the framers wrote the constitution....no machine guns existed"


When people say that, I raise them a
http://tucsoncitizen.com/wryheat/files/2013/02/Puckle_gun_advertisement-550x403.jpg


Remember folks
http://i.imgur.com/8cvvyDD.jpg

[AFSil80]

One problem that the NYPD faces is that they have some ridiculous 15 lb or whatever it is trigger in their Glocks that is mandatory.

NYPD Gunfire In Empire State Building Shooting Wounded All Nine Bystanders, Says Ray Kelly (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-bullets-shot-all-nine_n_1830007.html)

[1 88 U]

One problem that the NYPD faces is that they have some ridiculous 15 lb or whatever it is trigger in their Glocks that is mandatory.

NYPD Gunfire In Empire State Building Shooting Wounded All Nine Bystanders, Says Ray Kelly (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-bullets-shot-all-nine_n_1830007.html)

It's 10 and so what. Practice more.

[Corbic]

It's 10 and so what. Practice more.

Precisely. The old wheel guns all came in around 8# in n many of the duty revolvers back in the day. When NYC fell for Glock's advertising and bribery in the late 80's, accidental discharge and injury rates went ballistic.


Then there is the liberal myth of the "hair trigger". That firearms with these triggers are the pitbulls of the gun industry. Their some how designed to be "more deadly" and are the cause of accidental shootings.

It's called trigger discipline bitches. It's the kill button, not the index finger resting lever.

[1 88 U]

D7icttUa9GU

[1 88 U]

for the idiots that use car analogies to justify gun regulations
The Sacred Cow Slaughterhouse » WE NEED TO REGULATE CARS THE WAY WE REGULATE GUNS (http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/item/we-need-to-regulate-cars-the-way-we-regulate-guns)

[Corbic]

for the idiots that use car analogies to justify gun regulations
The Sacred Cow Slaughterhouse » WE NEED TO REGULATE CARS THE WAY WE REGULATE GUNS (http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/item/we-need-to-regulate-cars-the-way-we-regulate-guns)

Watch it! Some states like NJ and California would love to regulate cars just like that.

[1 88 U]

Now Joe Biden is defending Oscar Pistorius.

Joe Biden Has More Gun Advice: ‘Just Fire the Shotgun Through the Door’ | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/27/joe-biden-has-more-gun-advice-just-fire-the-shotgun-through-the-door/)

[godsmack]

Sweet so when the cops come to my house I can just shoot through the door before identifying who it is? Well Joe Biden said I could if I was scared. I didn't know who was out there and they were banging really hard. They said police but I couldn't be sure. It might of been someone acting like police to come and harm me.

[1 88 U]

Sweet so when the cops come to my house I can just shoot through the door before identifying who it is? Well Joe Biden said I could if I was scared. I didn't know who was out there and they were banging really hard. They said police but I couldn't be sure. It might of been someone acting like police to come and harm me.

This is the guy in charge of the anti gun task force.

[1 88 U]

good news
The NRA Is Unveiling a New Pro-Gun Contributor — and You Might Be a Little Surprised | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/01/the-nra-is-unveiling-a-new-pro-gun-contributor-and-you-might-be-a-little-surprised/)

[VNG704]

good news
The NRA Is Unveiling a New Pro-Gun Contributor — and You Might Be a Little Surprised | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/01/the-nra-is-unveiling-a-new-pro-gun-contributor-and-you-might-be-a-little-surprised/)
I like a lot of his vids but the beginning of his second vid on this link, he talks about kkk and racial segrigation. What does that have to do with the gun control debate?

[1 88 U]

I like a lot of his vids but the beginning of his second vid on this link, he talks about kkk and racial segrigation. What does that have to do with the gun control debate?

Back in the day Gun Control was used to disarm black folks to leave them vulnerable to the lynching. That is why it is so perplexing that these so called black leaders are advocating gun control given the history of segregation. Read about the Deacons for Defense and the Black Panther Party.

May issue CCW is racist as hell. In most May Issue states(when the government decide wether you need access to you 2nd amendment rights) you have to be wealthy and/or the same color as the folks in charge.

Back in the days when Alabama was May Issue instead of Shall Issue, a young man by the name of Martin Luther King Jr upon receiving a number of death threats was denied a carry permit for some reason.

[cgtdream]

Back in the day Gun Control was used to disarm black folks to leave them vulnerable to the lynching. That is why it is so perplexing that these so called black leaders are advocating gun control given the history of segregation. Read about the Deacons for Defense and the Black Panther Party.

May issue CCW is racist as hell. In most May Issue states(when the government decide wether you need access to you 2nd amendment rights) you have to be wealthy and/or the same color as the folks in charge.

Back in the days when Alabama was May Issue instead of Shall Issue, a young man by the name of Martin Luther King Jr upon receiving a number of death threats was denied a carry permit for some reason.

Oh look its this regurgitated facebook ish. Nonetheless some truth in this but anybody see any sort of parallelisms with this.

1885 - Keep the guns from slaves, yet, arm the masters so the slaves wont revolt

2013 - Keep the guns from the main populace, yet arm the govt, so the populace wont????

Not trying to incite any crazy Conspiracy theories but its just kinda odd why our government in whatever form, deems it necessary to overarm the various agencies within it, yet make a huge debate and debacle over normal everyday citizens carrying firearms....

[1 88 U]

BREAKING: Details of Shumer's Mandatory Background Check Bill (S. 374) | The Truth About Guns (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/foghorn/breaking-details-of-shumers-mandatory-background-check-bill-s-374/)

[Matej]

Does this apply to harpoons?

I need a harpoon to protect myself from other people with harpoons.

[onehundredoctane]

Go to Chicago they said.

You will be safer there because they have the strictest gun control laws, they said. . .

[1 88 U]

I'm sorry Colorado
Colorado ballot proposal aimed at undoing ammunition magazine limits - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22776136?source=pop#ixzz2NdjEyyZ9)

[AFSil80]

Turns out that scumbag Rhonda Fields has a pretty good rap sheet.

Hypocrite.

[1 88 U]

Man fires shots after children's prank | 9news.com (http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=324481)
His lawyer should just show the Biden shotgun video. "The Veep told me to do it your honor"

[1 88 U]

Fed update. AWB and Mag Cap is dead. Universal background checks are next to go up in flames.

Sorry Colorado :( Your governor signed that pos to law and Magpul is pulling out of your state with like 200 jobs and a shit load of tax revenue. Atleast you have pot ;)

[1 88 U]

Robert Guerrero will struggle to plead case in gun charges - MMA - Michael McCann - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mma/news/20130328/robert-guerrero-gun-jfk-airport-legal-case/)

WBC welterweight champion Robert Guerrero, who is set to challenge Floyd Mayweather Jr. on May 4 for the welterweight title, might be in a similar dilemma. After entering John F. Kennedy Airport in Queens early Thursday morning to catch a flight, he reportedly showed a locked gun box to a Delta Airlines ticket agent. The box allegedly contained an unloaded pistol and three unloaded high-capacity bullet magazines. Guerrero was then charged by New York authorities with four felonies, which carry a possible penalty of four years in a prison.

Some reports indicate Guerrero possesses a valid license to carry the weapons in his state of residence, California. But New York law is clear and unforgiving: a person must be licensed by the state of New York to carry weapons in New York. Neither Guerrero being unaware of New York law, nor him believing a California firearms' license would (like a California driver's license) reciprocally work in New York constitutes a viable defense.

Worse yet for Guerrero, he faces significant time in prison if convicted on the charges. While we have not heard Guerrero's side of the story, he would almost certainly be convicted if he owns the guns or knowingly possessed them. The available information -- including a police report -- strongly indicates they are his guns.

[Walperstyle]

I have to be wary of what I say on the internet, but I am curious what would happen if a few politicians were stabbed. Or worse, some nut-job takes a KA-Bar/Gerber knife and slaughters a few innocent kids.

Throw this theory and everything out the window.

You know what I call that shooter at Sandy Hook? a lousy shot.

and an ahole.

[1 88 U]

People don't seem to realize that the mass killers in most parts of the world use explosives.

[K_style]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575650_600372616657891_1339001484_n.jpg

This one of the most retard thing to hear... "Supposedly" those twins have 13 or whatever College degrees including PhD. Clearly, education didn't "educate" them.

[AFSil80]

Most universities are just liberal think tanks nowadays. Real world education doesn't happen in a classroom.

[bc.]

Fed update. AWB and Mag Cap is dead. Universal background checks are next to go up in flames.

Sorry Colorado :( Your governor signed that pos to law and Magpul is pulling out of your state with like 200 jobs and a shit load of tax revenue. Atleast you have pot ;)
lol



charchar

[midnightouge]

Now they want to register magazines?
Are we supposed to take them to the police department to get the serialized:facepalm:

Connecticut lawmakers reach deal on 'most comprehensive' gun limits in US - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/01/17557867-connecticut-lawmakers-reach-deal-on-most-comprehensive-gun-limits-in-us?lite&)

[K_style]

Most universities are just liberal think tanks nowadays. Real world education doesn't happen in a classroom.

And those are the people who proposing and making new laws.

[K_style]

I wanted share this with you all...

WypFNHOl5_Q

Can't believe that's what "Congresswoman" say to concerned citizen.

"You'd dead anyway"

[1 88 U]

Now they want to register magazines?
Are we supposed to take them to the police department to get the serialized:facepalm:

Connecticut lawmakers reach deal on 'most comprehensive' gun limits in US - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/01/17557867-connecticut-lawmakers-reach-deal-on-most-comprehensive-gun-limits-in-us?lite&)

A fucking box with a spring.

[Future240]

I wanted share this with you all...

WypFNHOl5_Q

Can't believe that's what "Congresswoman" say to concerned citizen.

"You'd dead anyway"

This type of thinking is quite ignorant. (The article not you). It is simply a political attempt to quell the masses. Banning guns ammo clip sizes will do nothin for school shootings.

Black market will just profit from it.

Why can't the mass public see this I don't understand. If it was not a gun then it would have been something else. A homemade bomb perhaps. What would they do then? Ban fertilizer?

Sigh. With liberals and conservatives jumping on this bandwagon I fear for the worst. While personally I have no interest in guns it makes me sick to my stomach to see rights being taken away.

[1 88 U]

Well gun control got the shit kicked out of itself in the Senate. hahahahahahahahaha

Sorry to the states that got fucked over through all of this.

[AFSil80]

I wonder if Obummer is finally realizing that he doesn't have the ignorant support that he once enjoyed.

[K_style]

I wonder if Obummer is finally realizing that he doesn't have the ignorant support that he once enjoyed.

I am hearing from FOX that Mr.Dictator is going to use his Executive order to force his will.

OMG..

[AFSil80]

The kind of rhetoric he was throwing out, saying that his administration could do it without Congress...that's the kind of conclusion I would arrive to.

Does he REALLY believe that 90% of the citizens want tighter laws? Apparently, the Senate voted in accordance with their constituents. Just sayin.

http://m8.i.pbase.com/o3/36/6836/1/108402728.3lkTuzvd.RedDawnWOLVERINES.jpg

[EDacIouSX]

I wonder if Obummer is finally realizing that he doesn't have the ignorant support that he once enjoyed.

unfortunately he had enough support for a 2nd round of his bullcrap.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Just signing in. Gun owner and 2nd amendment enthusiast.

[dudermagee]

This is fucking bullshit.
A knee jerk response to a freak act.

And the best part is that none of their new laws that they are trying to put in place would have stopped the Newtown shooting or the Colorado theater shooting.
Its all about pushing their agenda, scaring the populace to give up rights, and garnering votes from the sheep.

I live in CT and have to listen to this shit all the time.
Luckily my town has a little bit of intelligence and decided that putting an armed guard (retired PO) is the best solution for the school shooting scenario. This may have stopped the Newtown incident had it been in place, or at least it would have slowed\limited the carnage. It is very cost effective and it does not infringe on our rights.

We need to stop giving in to fear and giving up our rights. Too many people have died so that we may receive these liberties. We cannot become sheep and depend on wolves to defend us.

/rant

[AFSil80]

unfortunately he had enough support for a 2nd round of his bullcrap.

Historically, most presidents never find the "productivity" in their second term compared to their first term. He's gonna be a lame duck Prez. That's fine with me, and it probably frustrates the hell out of him. Obamacare is starting to be criticized by top Democrats, the unions are realizing it isn't going to save their healthcare plans, and companies are already cutting hours from employees in order to push them out of range from getting benefits which is exactly what people said would happen.

I hate saying it, but unemployment is going to get worse, and the economy will follow as long as Bernake is printing money. I'm afraid that the worst has yet to come.


Back on topic...Obama, umadbro?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/AFSil80/IMAG0700_zpsd9b7b00d.jpg

[bik]

I am not american probably shuld not post here but.... have you guys seen the printed automatic guns??? you can print rifles at your house now with a 3d printer O_o is just the begining Make a Working GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal. Amature GunSmith Makes an AR-15 Rifle - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow)

I am pro gun WTB, wish we could have guns here, any retard with a tiny revolver can mug you at your own house here

Keep your guns, goverment is afraid of the people, that is good it works, what you guys need is less retards leaving a loaded gun on the kitchen and stuff

just my opinion for a outsider O_o

[BlackZenkiS14]

I am not american probably shuld not post here but.... have you guys seen the printed automatic guns??? you can print rifles at your house now with a 3d printer O_o is just the begining Make a Working GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal. Amature GunSmith Makes an AR-15 Rifle - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow)

I am pro gun WTB, wish we could have guns here, any retard with a tiny revolver can mug you at your own house here

Keep your guns, goverment is afraid of the people, that is good it works, what you guys need is less retards leaving a loaded gun on the kitchen and stuff

just my opinion for a outsider O_o

That news report was retarded. You can only print the lower reciever. You still need all of the lower inner parts,molt, barrel, etc to ate a gun work. And the printed lowers have only been able to withstand 100rds at best yet. Most fail after 50.

And not many people have access to a 3d printer.

[bik]

but it will be accesible in the future... u know like computers

also that video was old this is the new one O_o 3D Printed Semi-Automatic AR-15 GUN can FIRE off 600 ROUNDS of BULLETS. Printed at HOME - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZRUpmMIQy8)

[lucky7]

Not a gun owner, however, the more I hear about this shit, the more I'd like to be. I feel really sad for the people that live their lives in constant fear. I could get gunned down this afternoon, I could get hit by a bus. All sorts of terrible things could happen to me today. I'm not the least bit worried though, because the sun is shining and the birds are chirping. I'm going to go live my day like I do any other. :)

[Grenade180sx]

as far as 3D printing goes, mags cool, rails cool, lower not so sure about, and you can purchase a 80% lower machine it with the same results(if not better) and have no registration.

[raz0rbladez909]

Personally this whole gun control crap is a sham. It seems like they are just trying to force their will on the masses with fake statistics and sad stories. While I feel bad about Newtown, I can't help but think of how many other laws were broken to commit those crimes. Criminals will find ways to obtain guns no matter what, I.E. Chicago. So further regulating will only hurt us law abiding citizens. Meanwhile Obama was parading around the families of the victims of this crime all to push his own agenda.

Now we have states like New York, California, Connecticut all pushing to be known as the states with the "Toughest" gun laws. Meanwhile these states also enjoy the highest gun crime. Ironic isn't it?

[AFSil80]

I exercised proper gun control this week.

All my shots were on target.

[DALAZ_68]

guys and gals, ive started a research paper for my english class and obviously all of you here are the ones to turn too... heres the link (http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/519075-research-paper-gun-control-zilvia-english-masterminds-unite.html)

any help with links or articles or sources would be appreciated, maybe help me tweek the thesis statement...any hel appreciated.

[raz0rbladez909]

I can't respond to everything I'd like to through my phone but right off the bat I saw something incorrect. Your first line regarding gun crime being at an all time high is actually incorrect. Gun crime in actuality has been at a steady decrease since 1993, but mainstream media will try to tell you otherwise.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gun-control-myths-realities
In fact violent crime in general has gone down.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8#disablemobile
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

[tiggertsi]

I can't respond to everything I'd like to through my phone but right off the bat I saw something incorrect. Your first line regarding gun crime being at an all time high is actually incorrect. Gun crime in actuality has been at a steady decrease since 1993, but mainstream media will try to tell you otherwise.
Gun Control: Myths and Realities | Cato Institute (http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gun-control-myths-realities)
In fact violent crime in general has gone down.
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8#disablemobile)
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2


correct. not only is it in decrease but more people die from heart disease and doctor mal-practice way more than gun violence. and yet you'll never see those two things as epidemics on any mainstream media outlet.

[NiSilS14]

I feel sorry for you folks in Cali, I feel like Cali and New York is seeing who can go most full retard.

BREAKING: California Gun Ban Bills Pass Committee | The Truth About Guns (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/robert-farago/breaking-california-gun-ban-bills-pass-committee/)

[blownmotor]

I feel sorry for you folks in Cali, I feel like Cali and New York is seeing who can go most full retard.

BREAKING: California Gun Ban Bills Pass Committee | The Truth About Guns (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/robert-farago/breaking-california-gun-ban-bills-pass-committee/)

Shit tell me about it. Everyone here is scrambling on how to deal with this bullshit.

[Corbic]

Shit tell me about it. Everyone here is scrambling on how to deal with this bullshit.

Move to another state.

[scottie]

Ask the Aussies how Gun Control is working out for them.

Gun Control doesn't work. It has never worked. It never will work. Yet ignorant, tree hugging hippies in California and back-stabbing, elitist pricks in New York City deny logic, history and gun related crime rates across the nation for the past decade.

Honestly though, what are your expectations from a city that implements "Stop & Frisk" which is a direct violation of your 4th Amendment right.

As for Cali, well I think Maynard said it best.... "Learn to Swim, I'll see you down in Arizona Bay"

[S14DB]

As for Cali, well I think Maynard said it best.... "Learn to Swim, I'll see you down in Arizona Bay"
Which is a tribute to Bill Hicks...

[AFSil80]

California Über Alles...

[blownmotor]

So for those of you that live in CA or don't know what's going on in CA here's a link
CGSSA CALIFORNIA Legislation Tracking - Stay up to date! - Calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=776966)